July 12, 2005

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Carl Keating, Jerry Matatics, and the Crisis of Valid Ordination

And welcome to the dividing line on this Tuesday morning, I just got an email Excuse me. Just got an email from Carl Keating he sends out his his e-letter and And I Started looking at it and went. Ooh, this is interesting didn't know about this.

It hadn't kept up with this I isn't interesting that Carl would. He mentions the fact for those of you who don't know Carl Keating is the president director grand poobah of Catholic answers in San Diego and Author of Catholicism and fundamentalism a Very sort of out-of-date book now to be perfectly honest with you, but it's it's still out there and He Worked with Jerry Matta ticks for a while.

I don't remember how long Matta ticks was Catholic answers at least 89 Was in early. Was that early 91? Yeah, I was really 91 that Matta ticks left Catholic answers and they have truly Gone back and forth and and smashed each other over the head a number of times over the years and You got to give Carl credit.

Carl is pretty much still saying the same things. He said back in the 1980s I don't think that's necessarily good in the sense of I've not seen any development in his in his Apologetic at least to those outside of Roman Catholicism.

Then again, he does tend to be more interested in internal stuff Movements within Catholicism than he is us folks out here. So hey, you know, that's his thing. That's the thing anyway and Matta ticks has gone Out into the into the stratosphere someplace and I was not aware of how far he had gone and so I read this just went to Jerry's site and Carl does quote him accurately here and he starts off talking about this debate.

That's upcoming and We don't know where it's gonna be Which I find somewhat humorous the when the announcement was first made the Jerry Matta ticks was gonna be debating Robert St. Genes on does the novus ordo mass?

Fulfill our Sunday obligation some Genesis could be saying yes and Matta ticks is gonna be saying no and it's it's scheduled for October 1st as at a yet-to-be announced location in Southern California and I kept looking when they get out, you know, I'd think maybe possibly they might you know want to have a location for this, you know that type of thing, but they haven't done that yet and What?

What comes from this is interestingly enough Matta ticks Starting March April, I guess April he refers to the strong stand of taken in my April talks Against the new mass and related issues. That is the new post 1968 ordination rights and it seems that that Matta ticks is now saying that not only is the the novus ordo mass the the Mass post Vatican to it was the order was changed, you know in in the vernacular, etc Etc, etc, all these changes about it.

You brought him. Not only is that really bad. In fact Keating says Matta ticks has called it a monstrosity. But likewise the revisions to the right of ordination. It seems Matta ticks is saying renders The ordinations that have been done since 1968 invalid.

That means there have been no priests Ordained since 1968. And Keating points out what this means. He goes through rather interestingly the relationship of priest to bishop and then bishop to you know Bishop of Rome Pope and points out that Ratzinger was ordained in 51.

So that would be valid as a priest, but he was ordained archbishop of Munich pricing in 1977 which is post 68. Which would mean that he doesn't have a valid ordination to the office of bishop and hence could not be the Bishop of Rome and hence there is no Bishop of Rome and that's said a vacant ISM and the Dada and He he notes that on Matta ticks his website.

You can go to Jerry Matta ticks org. Don't go to Jerry Matta ticks calm because for some reason it locked me out. It was I thought it was. I don't know what that is. But anyway, he writes quote. Many of you this is matter to try many of you have inquired about my summer speaking schedule since until today.

My website had only listed engagements up through April 16th. Here's the scoop due to the strong stand of taken in my April talks against the new mass and related issues. That is the new post 1968 ordination rights about which I'll be writing in my next essay, which I hope to post here next week.

Hahahaha, I know. No, Jerry Matta ticks well enough to know that if that appears before December It'll be a new world record for the speed at which you would get something then. Anyways post here next week all but one of my 2005 speaking engagements have been canceled all of them the whole year including a pilgrimage.

In France May 1st, he was going to join the remnant for that as he had in the previous nine years. The Dietrich von Hildebrand Institute in Lake Gardo in Italy in June. For which I was delivered several lectures on the doctrinal controversies in the early church in the formation of the New Testament canon the annual st. Benedict Center conference in Fitchburg, Massachusetts in July, which he had spoken for nearly 10 years as.

Well as all my other summer speaking engagements have been canceled. Now a couple things this immediately tells me first of all, whoever he's talking to this this real strong traditionalist Community the super conservative Roman Catholic traditionalist Latin mass folks.

They've all got each other's cell phone numbers. Okay, the only way that's something That was said by Jerry Matta ticks in April. You know talks that he's giving Could immediately result in all the rest of his summertime Talks being canceled is if they all know each other, you know.

They're they're just going around and they're talking to the same the same group just wherever they live, but it's a very small Group and immediately the word spreads and it's oh no Matta ticks has truly become a Set a vacancies to set a vacancies for those of you who don't know means the chair is empty.

And so there is no valid Pope. And so if the post 1968 ordination stuff does not produce a valid a valid ordination It's not sacramentally valid. Then I think Keating's right. The only logical conclusion you can come to is is that Ratzinger is is not Validly the Bishop of Rome because he's not validly a bishop so It would seem that a lot of these very strong traditionalists are Very concerned About being seen in such a fashion being seen as being set a vacancy as being seen against being against the Pope and and and and so on so forth, so all of his speaking gone and Keating writes in an email to me Michael Matt editor of the remnant Confirmed that Matta ticks withdrew from participant now notice here.

It says Matta ticks withdrew Matta ticks withdrew from participation this year's pilgrimage Because he doubted that priests Associated with it including those in the Vatican sanctioned fraternity of st. Peter Had been ordained validly.

So He's saying that Matta ticks withdrew because Matta ticks didn't feel that the priests who would be involved with that particular Pilgrimage had actually been validly ordained because they had been ordained post 1968.

So You know, it's it is awfully interesting to notice. You know you think about the 1980s and 1990s who is out front? For Catholic answers and and the Roman Catholic Apologetics community in the 80s and 90s.

The first is Jerry Matta ticks. Patrick Madrid did his stuff but you know, not quite as up front, you know, but Jerry Matta ticks I've mentioned before the the picture of him and the in this rock magazine inside front cover Black and white picture of him in this church, you know I'm the one who took your loved ones from the Catholic Church and yada yada yada.

And then who is the next big name that came along Roberts and Janice? Big name converts Westminster Seminary la la la la la la and where are they now? They're off Doing their own thing it you know, I've seen and I saw this.

Oh, I forget when I first saw that but At early 90s at least I remember seeing Certain Roman Catholics and their voices were pretty quiet because everybody was so excited about the converts, you know.

Look at the converts from Westminster Seminary. Isn't this wonderful? Saying in essence, you know, isn't it a little bit odd that these apologists are all converts. First of all hasn't the church normally utilized Priests to do this kind of work and so on so forth and then Sort of buried in between stuff, but I do remember people saying this there were people who were criticizing these converts as saying look the problem is These folks are still Protestants in their thinking.

They may say they believe in the Pope and they may say they believe in the church. But the fact the matter is these converts they're still Protestant the thinking because they've come into the church and what they're basically saying is look if you want to get more of Folks like me then this is how you should do it this is the the process this is what got me and Therefore this is how you'll get everybody else.

And so they're their own. They're in essence their own little Popes and Isn't that what we see happening here? I? Mean some jazz has gone off and done his thing and he's out there doing the you know I saw a page on his website recently.

Somebody sent me a link of a picture of him To it's I think was on the on some cosmologies something with a picture of Hawking next to him, you know. So it's Janice actually believes that he's on Hawking's level I don't know.

That's I don't makes me chuckle. But anyway it's That he's out doing his thing now. Matt a tix is doing his His st. Jerome Center thing, which is I I couldn't I? It's just a view of listen to any of Jerry's Debates in the past.

I could not help but chuckle at this this paragraph. It says Not as large as a small house. We still hope to eventually acquire the apartments for rooms will nevertheless hold the bulk of my library in nearly 50 large bookcases still leaving room for two sofas easy chairs.

That is that it up it says during the past four weeks I've been working around the clock transporting dozens of bookcases and thousands of books from my home to the new study center purchasing 22 additional bookcases and assembling them and Attending to the hundred and one other details to make the study center fully functional in time to receive our first students the week of July 18th to 22nd, I anticipate a steady stream of students the rest of the summer and throughout the fall Jerry's books are still in boxes.

If you've listened to our debates Almost every debate for a while starting there wasn't in the mid 90s yeah in the mid 90s every debate would start off with how all his books are still in boxes and So he couldn't get to his best material and it was always his way of saying I'm not as prepared as I should be so grade me easier than this other guy type of a type of a Routine that he had and they're still in boxes.

And now he's starting his his st. Jerome Center and I Really wonder what kind of students are gonna come out of that and and are they likewise going to believe? That there are no priests and what what happens 20 years from now.

I mean if the last priests were validly ordained in 1968 they're in their 60s now, right? I Mean if they were just very young enough that they're in their 60s now. They're they're they're not gonna be lasting 20 more years from now.

Most of them are gonna be gone. So what's the result of that going to be? You know, I mean is is manatees attending only a church? Where the Latin Mass is done in the old way by an old priest who was validly ordained.

Could are these older priests who were ordained before 1960 do they need to start ordaining other priests outside of Rome's purview and overview. I Mean, I I got it. You gotta admit Keating is right here.

There isn't any logical way for meditics to remain in the Catholic Communion believing what he's what he's believing. But it's I can't be done. It just can't be done. So, you know one of the things that this this raises for me as I'm as I'm thinking about this is if You take some genesis and meditics out of the debates we've done.

We need to go back and start we need to do a few more debates on some other topics with maybe priests primarily. Who aren't you know likely to go off into la la land someplace somewhere down the down the road because unfortunately, whether it's whether what they say in the debate the vast row of people who Criticize my debates or or criticize my position.

I've never even bothered to listen to them. But what happens is the you know, I'll say well, you know I've had a great debate with Jerry meditics in 1993 on the papacy seven and a half hours. Yeah, well Jerry meditics has gone off and become a wacko and they won't even listen to the debate even if what meditics was saying is exactly what Any other Roman Catholic apologist today would say even if it was what Aiken would say or Keating would say or Madrid would say.

Because he's gone off the deep end and so Genesis off. You know with his Jewish conspiracy theories and taking on Hawking and doing stuff like that. All the debates done with them all of a sudden it's like well, you know, that's not really relevant then you throw in staples and for some reason people are willing to throw him under the bus and just sort of chuckle a little bit like ah, well, you know Tim Tim's Tim and You know Folks folks folks, you know, and and they don't you know really care about that so there's still some some topics there that would need to be addressed in a you know in upcoming debates and Who knows maybe I'll have but it fascinating developments there.

It is truly interesting to see what is What is going on and in that's a particular area eight seven seven seven five three three three four one's the phone number we have one early caller and I noticed that early callers are normally troublemakers and.

And I'm pretty certain that this guy is a troublemaker to the because I think he's I think he's called before and. So I I've got my finger on the on the drop button and I've got my left hand on the drop button and my right finger on the kick band button so we can we can go both directions at the same time and.

And and cause the sounds of silence to be played in multiple multiple mediums. But so we're gonna go ahead and talk to to Frank anyways. Hi Frank. How are you? Dr. White? Well, nice to be home. What would you do if we actually You know, we're nice to you or something.

I wouldn't know what you wouldn't know. Yes. Yes, you would. Because it's we have abused you for so long that it is how you understand love now. And it's it's sort of like the dog that has been beaten so many times that it just when you stop beating it.

It thinks you're no longer loved. So Man and Apparently well Gary wants wants your position. Okay, he's he's actively seeking it. Nick is just like running into walls. I'm starting a whole book called nutty Nick questions and Nick's nutty questions or something like that.

It'll do well in the UK. It won't go over over here. But well, actually the problem is in the UK. It won't be funny because we're going well, we've always wondered about that, too. Oh. You're ruthless.

I am I realize that I'm sorry. Here's my question. That's why I called it I was actually working in my bookstore and it's hard to believe but I actually had guide them in the well See, normally those are two different two different questions I mean, they're obviously related in the sense of the the practice of discipline.

Requiring the elderships Oversight and attention and and indeed being primarily their their responsibility at that point. But they're they're really sort of two different questions because it sounds like from what you said, they're already moving That direction is are they moving that direction out of conviction or just sort of this just happens to be the evolution of the of That particular fellowship.

They're convicted ago. Okay. All right. Well you see. And the the function of the eldership is a little bit is significantly more than than just. You know discipline there's in fact, you would hope of course that Discipline would be a a minor element of of the practice though.

That's when shall we say the rubber meets the road? That's when you really find out whether people really do believe in having a plurality of elders really do believe That so this is something that's important to the health of the church and and so on so forth.

So there's a there's a wide variety there obviously, you know that there's a small book that's That I contributed to that least would give my perspective. It sounds like they're already past that point.

Yeah, as you saw I see in channel right now Deo Valente mentioned Strauch's biblical eldership is a much deeper study there was as reformed Baptist work the name is just Missing me at the moment that likewise goes into the functioning of elders.

You're seeing in channel number of folks because we have a number of elders in channel that are mentioning various and sundry works that are are available there, but really The the interface with discipline.

The whole issue of church discipline, and I'm not sure what the nature of this this situation is they were real forthcoming. I couldn't give you more detail. Yeah, you know if it's If it's a sin issue which it normally well It's always a sin issue, but if it is a personal sin issue that is separate from a theological issue or a heresy issue you know that that's one thing if it's the If it is the issue of heresy, then you have to have these new elders pulling together with the quote-unquote pastor slash elder type of a situation as far as taking a stand on stuff that the problem with new situations where you're just newly moving into that is It's it's hard to know where an elder is in a short period of time as far as their Their their theological Strength and depth goes and the problem is Frequently you'll get folks who just don't see the importance of maintaining doctrinal purity in the church and and the danger to the sheep of someone who is is actually seeking to Draw people away after themselves and so that can be difficult in that Transitionary period you know I I've I've not been in a church that was transitioning.

And so there's some some areas I feel a little bit less than than able to address from experience simply because I've not been there I've either you know I went from non-reformed in Toto straight to a reformed church that had been reformed for quite some time and so there was a The the things that we as elders have to deal with everybody in the church knows Who the elders are what they stand for what their function is and we're all on the same page and being in a situation Where people aren't all on the same page right is extremely difficult and when I travel and speak it for example founders conferences Where you'll very frequently encounter individuals who as a young pastor they're trying to bring sound theology Into into the church and yet there is such Incredible resistance, and I I can't I've lost count of how many times I've talked to some some young man who was who was You know trying to do what was right before God and and now he finds himself working at the local Walmart because that's all he can do because he you know they just up and and kicked him out.

And that's all there is to it. That's that's how they did things and so that Transitionary process can be very Very very trying very very difficult in a church, and I honestly I Give all the credit in the world to people who survive it because I haven't gone through it.

And I don't know if I actually could survive that to be honest with you I mean obviously God can give the grace when you need it and not before or after but I don't know how I would in fact be able to survive something like that.

It would be extremely extremely difficult. And you know I I should mention, and I'm thinking about the fact that we have folks sitting in channel going. Yeah, well if y 'all weren't Baptists you wouldn't have that problem.

But let's let's face it our our Presbyterian brothers have the other end of the spectrum and that is they can they can get stuck with the they may not have the situation where you've got a bunch of Arminian deacons who think they actually own the church right kicking anybody out who raises the specter of Calvinism, but Just to demonstrate that there are problems all over the the Session can become very comfortable with a dead orthodoxy as well that that makes it next to impossible for a minister to very boldly and powerfully preach the gospel to and From a reformed Baptist perspective that overarching structure, which which someone would say see that's what keeps From happening what you were just talking about you know the young man gets kicked out.

He's working at Walmart. Yeah. But when that overarching structure goes wrong then you have the ability to promote heresy from the top down and There's a whole area of discussion there, so you know there's It's sad that most folks look at church polity and and how we do things is pretty much just a matter of tradition and not a matter of something where there needs to be conviction, but You got a number of references there in channel while we were speaking air bells going well.

What were they well you got to be in channel to know what they are. That's sort of the Gnostic element. Why not we're accused of being Gnostics anyways why not just go ahead there's there's a you know, okay.

Can I can I get one other question? Yeah, I'm here. You know this whole this whole is it is it what he's proper. I mean, I got that true. Yeah, and let me explain what what donatism is because most people are thinking that Jerry Matt's exceeds doughnuts right now.

But what she could do he's a real skinny guy and all would be well. But um yeah the the Donna it is a form as far as I can see at least historically there would be Some Connection to the Donatist controversy at this point because it sounds like the objections are very similar.

That is the Donatist were saying Ordination was not proper because these individuals were trotters. They had given up the scriptures on the persecution during the Roman persecution and and therefore they they cannot Validly ordain someone and it seems the Jerry's argumentation is that the but the one difference here would be it seems his argumentation is that the Vatican and the bishops Gather thousands of bishops gathered together.

Somehow got it so wrong that the result Is such a perversion of what the truth is that it's no longer a valid ordination. So they're both arguing along the same lines. Except that you could almost make much more of a case for the Donatist.

You know in the in the sense you're only talking about an individual or something like that. Who has committed a material act of apostasy? He's saying basically the entire church did it and the entire church is missing it and who's Jerry to say well.

That's just it Jerry's. I'm sorry, but so many of these Protestant converts to Roman Catholicism, they just they don't imbibe that. That fealty to the to the existing a hierarchy overly well. And they they I think it's the criticism is right a lot of them Just become their own popes and they go their own way and voila so anyways.

Well you know I He wouldn't be able to keep track of it very long, so we shouldn't invest a lot of money in it. It end up in a box someplace Fine for many years all right, man. Thanks for calling. Thanks.

Eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one we're gonna take our break and be right back.

Try to save your soul from death. It's all works righteousness, you know. Can I manufacture grace myself to die some religious place by weeping hard on your face.

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It always comes back so loud.

My ears are ringing now. Thank you. Let's say someone calling. I can't tell I can't hear it anymore. Eight seven seven seven five three three four one. We're gonna go back to playing some clips here and Go back to we're gonna finish off Adrian Rogers someday, so that's that's what I'm gonna.

I'm gonna do here. I have all these there's this neat little program called sticky note. It's it's really cool program and in fact. We use it now to send notes back and forth across the network and stuff, but I have all these little sticky notes on my on my computer telling me like where I am.

I started this one Sunday March 6, and it tells me Rogers 1748 Etc etc so I remember because I'd never remember where in the world so we're gonna start 1745. So we'll get three seconds of context going back to Adrian Rogers.

I believe this is a college Bible study on the Subject of hyper Calvinism, which we have learned already is just simply five-point Calvinism. But we're in the middle of of that presentation, so let's pick back up with it even now.

First John 2, 2 and the Scope of the Atonement

With every bit of my being that there's a child born in this city anytime any day. Where God says there is no opportunity none whatsoever. There's only certain ones that are unconditionally elected, but Jesus said I would have but he would not.

Now we're going to tighten the focus a little bit more here now.

Let me just we sort of got into the middle of that one there that was after Matthew 23. We didn't hear anything about the fact that the you would not was was not the people who were who Jesus wanted to gather.

No attempt to make Matthew 23 Soteriological. No attempt to deal with Matthew 23 and the fact that it's dealing with the issue of the condemnation of the religious leaders. None of that, it's just simply thrown out there and In essence as it frequently functions especially when you're talking to younger people hey if the man up there in the pulpit says this then he's done that study and Therefore I can trust him on that.

You know I understand that and you know what that's not bad in and of itself. Because he is supposed to have done the study it just seems on this one topic There are so many who are not willing to actually do the study and to accurately represent the situation.

I'm sure that Adrian Rogers thinks he's doing what's best for his people. But we see now why? When you are Training for the ministry when you are when you are preparing for the ministry part and parcel of what needs to be in there is the constant Reminding the constant emphasis upon the fact that you can never cease learning.

You can never stop. Don't Stop examining your traditions. Don't stop going into the word and and I realize in so many of these churches It becomes so big. They become so huge that we force these men to be nothing more than CEOs.

And so their theology and their theological development Stops. Stops way back there, and it never moves forward from there and We see the result and it ends up then impacting the next generation the next generation so on so forth the third thing and.

That is limited atonement the idea That Jesus only died. For some people I want to give you a verse right now that just it gives the hyper Calvinist fit.

Now once again if you haven't heard this before dr. Rogers Confuses hyper Calvinism and Calvinism, and he had just simply used the same term for both. It is not a hyper Calvinistic doctrine to believe in particular redemption that Jesus Christ died substitutionarily in the in the place of the elect so that his death is actually propitious Propitiatory in regards their sins etc. Etc.

If you're expecting to hear any new insights from dr. Rogers as to how you can believe that Jesus died for you that being a reformed doctrine and then reject the foundation of it You're not going to get that.

But that's probably not surprising you at all.

I want you to turn to 1st John chapter 2 with me for just a moment. Back toward the back of the Bible. I'm I'm. Using a Bible it's brand-new Bible is reason why the pages are stuck together here.

Brief illustration of why? Whenever I get the new Bible that I sit down and Maybe put on a movie. I like to watch or something. That's separate all of the all of the pages because. You don't want to you don't want to be teaching a Bible study and the verse you want to get to you have to rip.

Pages open to get to it because the tenancy on the part of people watching or something is.

Hasn't been there for a little while has she. I wonder about that. All right. 1st John chapter 2 verses 1 2. My little children These things right eye unto you that ye sin not and if any man sin. We have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous.

He's talking about the Holy Song that the Lord Jesus who pleads our case before the Father. And now notice verse 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins. Now that's a big word, but it simply means he is the the satisfaction for our sins that is the Lord Jesus is the one who Paid our sin debt and satisfied the righteous demands of the law.

He is the propitiation.

Now, let me stop right there. I agree with that. That was that was well said. I think that's exactly what propitiation means. It wasn't anything about the wrath of God there, but That that's minor. I Agree, so what does that mean?

If you believe if you believe in propitiatory sacrifice and you're now going to Instead of seeing John talking about us and the whole world as All of the children of God spread abroad every tribe tongue people in nation John chapter 11 all the children of God scattered abroad Brought into one unless you know He's not gonna let John define The scope of the Atonement here in John's own language.

We know where he's going. We've been to first John 2 to a million times before but Aren't there young. I mean, I know when I talk to college groups there are these these young minds that you know, just haven't been worn down over time they they ask lots of consistency questions and aren't there people sitting there taking the definition of propitiation and That then they're gonna hear it applied to everybody and the result would be that the sin debt For everyone has in fact been paid and so the question answer time should be.

Okay, what's the basis upon which? Anyone therefore is condemned, right?

That would Have to be what follows for our sins now watch this and not for ours only but also for the sins. What's the rest of that say? For the whole world, I believe that Jesus died for the whole world.

I Can't help but believe that there's no other way to say what black print means on white paper. You know what? What what will a hyper Calvinist say about this first? Well, he'll say oh the whole world of the elect.

No.

No, I wouldn't even attempt and again hyper Calvinist. Ha ha ha. I wouldn't even attempt to put that I just defined it the way John defined it every tribe tongue people in nation. Yes, those who are joined with Christ.

Why not? Why not go? To those passages of the Bible that are specifically about the issue of the scope intention and result of the Atonement. Why not go there? Well, someone could very rightly say look.

This is a college Bible study. You're covering a big topic. Don't expect them to go in depth. Well, has he ever? Do any of these folks ever or or when you ask these questions within these large churches?

Are you not then referred to this very kind of extremely? Narrow shallow brief. Stay away from this stuff. It's bad for you causes church splits and it makes you not be evangelically more type of presentation.

Isn't this the type of tape that would be handed to someone in the vast majority of those churches? It is. You're not handed. You know, what do you be handed there the handy Dave Hunt's book the handy Norman Geisler's book?

Isn't isn't that what they'll present to you? They generally aren't handing out the Scholarly Arminian stuff because very often it's not real high in its view of Scripture and and very often it ends up denying various elements of their own inconsistent theology and.

So. This is a type of stuff that is presented and you put a little codicil down there. You write something in that's not there. Well the whole world of the elect. Well, he's not talking about the elect went when he says the world by the way any any text.

Taken out of its context as a pretext. That's for certain. No one disagrees with that.

So, why don't you go to the texts? Dr. Rogers that actually address these issues.

Rather than these side things, you know, they don't all right now. What kind of a world is he talking about? We'll go down to verse 16 for all that is in the world the lust of the flesh the lust of the eyes and the pride Of life is not of the father, but of the world.

He's not now. Wait a minute. Whoa timeout.