SBC 2022 and the YRR

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, ìBut we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour ,î so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isnít for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as weíre called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

The Value of Quizzes in Sunday School and Bible Study

Hereís our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, ministry. And at last, finally, talves, we have Steve Cooley back in the studio. Steve, welcome.

Thatís shocking. I mean, it was nice of you to fly me in and everything, so I appreciate it. Where have you been?

We put you up only at the Motel 6, normally the guests at No Compromise Radio receive Hampton Inn.

Yeah, but I got the downgrade. Itís the downgrade controversy right here on No Compromise Radio.

I need to reread the downgrade controversy history. That would be good for us.

Okay. Itís been a while since IíveÖ I mean, there are a lot of books, Iím just like, ìYeah, I havenít read that for a while .î I mean, like Liberalism and Christianity, you know, I havenítÖ Yeah, tell theÖ.

Christianity and Liberalism. That doesnít exist, but tell our audience about your class on Saturdays and can they access them? We have a live studio audience.

We have in the past. Well, you know, the Saturday classes, I think we, I donít know if weíve recorded them all, but we havenít put them up and, you know, I think this fall we probably should just because, you know, just a really timeless topic in terms of Machen and Christianity and Liberalism and weíll be going through that book and The Men coming on Saturday morning at 7 .30, you know, just for donuts and conversation.

Weíve had a really good time.

We have a lot of fun, soÖ. Steve, I know your format because we have talked about it over the years and done that format for 20, 30 some years. Tell Sunday school teachers, Bible study leaders, home group leaders, teachers outside of Sunday morning sermons, why is a Q &A format good?

I donít mean the teacher asking questions, thatís good, but a written kind of true-false quiz. Why is that good?

I really do love it. I mean, you know, in the beginning I just thought, okay, I donít really understand this, but the more I work on doing quizzes and handing them out to the class, they just engage. They almost, now Iím not going to be careful, Iím just going to say, it forces the class to engage with the topic.

They have no choice. Theyíre compelled. Why? Why do I say that? Because they look at the questions and even if they donít like the questions, people raise their hand and object to the way I wrote the question.

And Iíll joke about firing my secretary, whoís me, you know? But itís good because people read the question, they think about it and trick questions are good, everything that you can do. But the other reason itís good, not only does it force them to engage, but it forces the teacher and I think this is the key.

It forces the teacher to read the material or to think through the material that theyíre teaching and to think, how can I put this in a way that the class is going to get it? Because itís easy to just blow through a topic and to lecture and to convince yourself that youíve presented things well.

That was my sermon on Sunday night. But the way that you know that youíre presenting the material well is when itís received and you hear that in the class. They receive it and they respond back.

They can mimic it back.

Yes, or ask intelligent questions about, you know, and this, it often doesnít happen in a lecture because people might be engaged for a while, but eventually they have a tendency to check out, especially if you just think, ìIím just going to give them a sermon .î Well, it might be a great sermon and it might not be, right?

But this Sunday School, the whole quiz format is just, itís fantastic in my opinion.

I think when I was teaching Fundamentals of the Faith class years ago, 30-some-odd years ago, I was trying to figure out a way to keep the class engaged and then show progress. Right? Weíve got two done.

Weíve got eight to go, right? Et cetera. And so I started doing these true-false things for Fundamentals of Faith. Then I thought, this is so good. Then you start mandating it and say, ìSteve, I want you to teach this class for me, but you have to do it true or false, right ?î.

And then youíve evolved it since then. Probably we should just tell all new Sunday School teachers, just do true and false. Do some quiz for the Sunday School lesson.

And sometimes Iíll throw in, if Iím really feeling confident, Iíll throw in a ìwhyî or a ìwhatî question, but mostly true-false or multiple choice or something. And obviously with multiple choice answers, you can have a lot of fun.

Just throw in a weird one.

I think itís built in the system, is it not, Steve? Weíre so inquisitive and curious. If thereís a true-false question, weíre trying to exact whatever false statement is in there. Right? Yes. Jesus, Creator, and the first created thing.

Right? And youíre like, ìOkay, I see that .î.

Yeah. Speaking of whatÖ Go ahead. Well, and so people will read super carefully. And again, all these things, what do they do? They force the class to pay attention. You know, itís almost like they learn, theyíre compelled to learn.

And Iím like, ìIs that bad ?î. And I think the answer is no.

Hence the term, Sunday School. I have a letter here on the desk. And itís got a nice Venetian look here, Venice, Italy, and you can see with a little abstract type of painting in the French era. And I open it up, and hereís what it says, Steve.

I wonít let you see it. Iím going to read it. ÌYour scum .î Close. In nice cursive writing, just some information as to why I donít believe that God the Almighty and Jesus are the same person or deity.

And I thought to myself, well, they obviously donít believe that Jesus is the eternal God. But I donít believe that the Father and the Son are the same person either. The third, that Jesus are the same, Father and Jesus are the same person or deity.

So talk about true-false.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I read your statement, and if any part of it is false, then the whole thing is false. So thank you for that, you know.

Steve, did you know we are on two radio stations in this country? We are on KAGV -1110 AM in Alaska and KFGR in Wyoming. How about that? I have a new motto for us. We want the airwaves. Thatís right. Thatís right.

Thatís right. Steve, next topic. You have watched, at a distance, so have I, the Southern Baptist Convention, their gathering in 2022, and Vody was voted down to be, I donít know what it was, some pastor thing, and then Askel was voted down.

Whatís your general take? Then weíll talk about some specifics in Southern Baptist world.

The Southern Baptist Convention, Rick Warren, and Institutional Drift

Well, I actually posted about this on Facebook last night, and I said, ìSouthern Baptist Convention .î Tom Askel, ìNo, thank you .î Vody Bauckham, ìNah, hard pass .î And I go, ìWe, basically, SBC to the world, weíre unsinkable .î And I posted a GIF, and itís the captain of the Titanic kind of doing a little dance on the deck, and then it shows this, the Titanic, like, trying to skip over the iceberg, and instead, it explodes, and Iím like, thatís pretty much, thatís the SBC.

It has hit the iceberg and denies that it has hit the iceberg.

Speaking of social media, I put on Twitter a picture of Rick Warren, who was on the floor, saying some things. He didnít have a thing around his neck, a lanyard, saying that he was a representative, or whatever their nomenclature is.

He wasnít allowed to speak. But, of course, heís Rick Warren, and he is the Southern Baptist of all Southern Baptists, in my mind. And I put a picture of that up, and I said, ìSouthern Baptist Convention, behold your king .î.

Oh, man. And, you know, I did not know heís baptized, you know, how many hundreds of thousands, 73 ,000 people, and, man, heís got a good track record there of his pragmatism.

Oh, yeah. Iíve got to drag up a picture here. Well, youíre dragging it up.

I guess hereís the real question. For years and years and years, solid, conservative, good people, in terms of good theology and wanting to live up to their theology, theyóoh, go ahead, okay, let me just finish this sentence and then you read it.

They wanted to stay in the Southern Baptist Convention. Theyíve seen its liberalism, the drifting toward it. Theyíve seen whatís going on with critical race theory and other issues and social justice stuff at Southeastern, at Southern, at Southwestern.

I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Theyíve watched it, but they keep staying. They keep staying, hoping, right? They love, they want to invest, and not everything about it is wrong. And I think today would be the day that if youíre a Southern Baptist church, you file whatever separation papers.

It wasnít like Askall barely lost. No.

And, you know, to me itís just, itís shocking that people stay in, right? I mean, and I understand it. I mean, thereís a history, thereís the missionary work, thereís, you know, thereís just, I mean, if you just think about all the property and everything else, I mean, thereís a lot that would kind of make you think, oh, I donít know if we want to leave or not.

But now itís just gotten, itís gotten to the point where you just wonder how much longer can people stay. So, hereís the, hereís the meme. I didnít even post this one because itís just so bad. Rick Warren.

Now, this is, itís a parody, ladies and gentlemen of the listening audience. Rick Warren. Iím not here to defend myself, but I helped build Noahís Ark, then build a bigger ark and was spared from the flood.

I also trained Samuel, Elijah, and Daniel. I led 11 billion people to faith in Jesus and I planted every church in the New Testament. Joe Biden? Did he say that? No. But, I mean, Rick Warrenís statement was, you know, Iím not here to defend myself and Iím not here to brag, and then he just started bragging, you know, about all the, heís trained more pastors than the entire, than all the seminaries combined.

Iím like, hmm, does that include the ladies?

Years ago, I picked up John MacArthur from the airport and he was going to preach here at the church, and I was talking about Rick Warren, highballs, you know, these big shots. And MacArthur basically said, whatever they do, whether it would be ministry or business, they would be, from a human perspective, successful.

Because theyíre entrepreneurs, they understand leadership, theyíve got it all down. And to me, when I listened to that quote from Warren on the floor, I just thought, thatís a businessman. What does a businessman do to try to garner votes and to try to get support?

Iíve built this and Iíve built that, Iíve done this, right? Thatís what I do.

And, you know, to make it Southern Baptist, you have to preface it with, now Iím not here to brag, but let me just tell you.

Attendance, buildings, and cash, thatís right up my alley.

I mean, I just humbly stand before the people and, you know, billions of people come every week. And, you know.

Well, the other thing that we have to address too is, you know, Tom Buck says something about someone and now they go after him and they go after him. And I watched the whole, whatever it was called, the Skype between the Bucks, Danny Akin and Karen Swallow Pryor.

And I just thought, this is ridiculous. Can you imagine the stress of all that?

Yeah. Itís, you know, and then to not, theyíre not going to let the Bucks defend themselves, you know, at the SBC. But theyíll give Rick Warren, who I donít even think is, I donít even know if Saddleback is technically in the SBC, but he had no warrant for speaking.

And they just, you know, yield him the floor. But somebody whoís been a massive part of the SBC and Tom Buck, and theyíre not going to let him talk.

When I saw Moeller on the floor, itís interesting to see him on the floor versus up on the stage platform. It seemed like he, has he had a stroke or something? He was having a hard time talking. Of course, he might have had COVID or a cold or who knows what.

Well, after reviewing his medical records, you know, I donít know. I really donít. I mean, he, you know, heís been ill for a long time. So, and I mean, just, I think by his own testimony, what does he sleep like, three hours a night or something?

That cannot be good.

No, that cannot be good. Any other thoughts on the Southern Baptist Convention? If we were SBC Church, what would be our next step?

Weíd be talking to the other elders about how do we leave? You know, how do we explain this to the congregation? And you know, when they need a study group to figure out what a pastor is, you know, whether women can be pastors or not.

But it doesnít surprise me. I mean, it was probably 20 years ago. I have a friend who we share a mutual hobby, lives down South, and his wife was a youth minister in the SBC, and he said, you know, weíre of the non-almolar wing.

You know, and that was 20 years ago. So, it doesnít really surprise me. This has been like a slow motion train wreck for decades. Itís just been, you know, when would it get to the point where really nobody can defend it anymore?

So, you know, the only question is, you know, what emerges out of this? I mean, I would think, you know, does G3 become a denomination? Does Tom Askell start a denomination? You know, what happens? And the answer is, I donít know.

Women in Ministry, Hermeneutics, and the Trajectory of Error

Steve, I think thatís good insight. And for me, I liken it to, oh, we had John Paul II as a pope for so long that we just accepted it, right? When do you get a new pope? WellÖ Well, maybe you did. But IÖ We, just as the world recognizes the leader, and then all of a sudden he dies, and then thereís another one, and thereís another one, and you see that happening before your very eyes.

I mean, White Smoke and everything else with denominations is the same thing. I mean, our whole lives, pretty much, the big denominations have remained the same. Right? There hasnít been a start of a denomination, and Magen didnít start up the OPC in our lifetime, etc.

Now we could be watching with G3 and other things. I mean, theyíve got a publishing wing. Iím sure if you asked Josh Weiss, ìDo you want to be a denomination ?î he wouldnít say it, but I think they have the network, right, that you have to be a part of?

Oh, they definitely do, yeah. Uh-huh. And I think you pay to be part of the church network, and you get benefits to be in that network. Isnít that what Baptist denominations do?

And they have events that, I mean, are so well run, youíd think they were, you know, SBC. I mean, just super slick. Right. Right.

Well, thatís fascinating. As things grow, and then you have a big platform, and then you have people on the platform that maybe have differences with you theologically, and how big must those differences get before you cut those people off?

Eternal functional subordination.

Yeah. Thatís an interesting dilemma, right? What do we agree on, and where do we draw the lines? But, you know, for the SBC, getting back to that, I think, you know, and itís interesting to watch even unbelievers comment on my Facebook wall, you know, theyíre like, ìThe worldís falling apart, and, you know, the SBCís going to divide over this ?î.

And Iím like, ìYeah, the SBC should divide over this .î. If you canít, if you canít read the scripture when Paul says, ìI will not have a woman ,î you know, to exert authority, or how itís exercised authority over a man, if you can read that and say, ìWell, what does it really mean ?î.

Or, and Iíll give credit to him, because I think he said it first, Wayne Grudem, and of course we disagree with his theology on certain areas, but he said, ìIf you can take First Timothy 2, ìI do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man ,î and turn it intoó I do permit.

I do. Or she must. Yeah. Iíll add that. She must teach and exercise authority. Then you can use the Bible to say anything. Remember Gordon Fee, heís written some good things, but his Ephesians, excuse me, his First Timothy commentary, heís saying, ìWell, you know, at Ephesus ,î because Paulís writing to Timothy at Ephesus, ìat Ephesus, they needed to have men only .î But you know what, for us now, you see the trajectory, itís the same thing once you do this with the women in ministry, the same hermeneutic yields homosexuals in ministry.

And try to contextualize it, you know, to that one church so that it doesnít mean, you know, and the problem again is, and everybody listening should know this, if you just go to the context, Paul ties it to Eve being deceived first.

So it kind of negates this whole concept of, ìGee, Corinth had special problems, and this only applies to Corinth ,î and you know, it was just a few women who were saying things that they ought not to at the church, ìNo, no, no, youíre making that up.

Move along .î And then theyíll say, Steve, ìWell, you know what, this is a fall issue, and so weíre trying to go back before the fall, and before the fall, this would be legit to have women teachers, et cetera, if that were possible .î And then in First Timothy 2, not only do we have Eve falls first, deceived, Adam wasnít deceived, he was the federal head that was a complete sinful idiot, he should have killed Satan right away, the serpent, but it goes to the created order, right?

God created man first. So even before fall, there are issues between men and womenís roles, and you look at Janet, and I look at Kim, and we look at Galatians 3 .28, weíre equal in Christ, and our spouses are more godly than we are.

What is that? But that doesnít have anything to do with the text. Right. Crazy. Can you imagine seeing a young man in your church, or these days, now women, and you think, you know what, they need higher education, they need pastoral ministry training, they need to go somewhere they can learn exegesis, theology, historical theology, biblical theology, hermeneutics, and letís send them to study under Karen Swallow Pryor.

Iíll take a pass. Yeah, but they get half price if theyíre Southern Baptists. Sweet!

I mean, it would be great to have her for a professor and then, you know, write papers for her that just completely question her legitimacy. Letís see how those grades go.

Well, I was listening to Victor Davis Hanson the other day, and he was talking about higher academic life and work, and in the old days, he said, and for him as well even today, you assign something as a professor, the students to write on it, and if they take a different view, itís okay.

They just have to substantiate their view and do the research on their view and come up with the right way to phrase it, and then the professor doesnít say, ìWell, I differ, therefore you get knocked .î.

No, no, you did a great job. I do differ, but Iím going to grade you on that, but thatís not what people these days do. No, because you must conform. You will conform. Maybe we could start calling Tuesday shows ìThe Borg Showsî, right?

You will be assimilated.

Resistance is futile.

Critiques of the New Calvinist YRR Movement

Steve, I found an old New Calvinist Young Restless Reform Movement printout. I donít even know who this is by. Oh, it said, ìPosted with Permission by Nick Weisel .î Maybe thatís him. Oh, good old Nick.

Yeah, yeah. Do you know Ellie Weisel? I have not read that book, ìThe Knight or Night ,î for a long, long time, but itís so graphic and gruesome. I donít mean sexually, but itís like, ìOuch, I donít think I can read it again .î.

Concentration Camps.

Yeah, well, all that stuff just, it just, it turns my stomach and makes me weep. I mean, thatísÖ.

This is a little section in No Compromise Radio where we have four minutes and we have a bunch of little statements, and Iím going to do, you donít have to say just one word, Steve. You can give me like a little phrase, but Iím going to say something from the New Calvinist movement, YRR, and you just quickly make a response.

All right, ready? Go. ÌItís not rooted in the historic Reformed tradition .î. Thatís a shame. Okay, good. This is, I like this. ÌIt eschews scholasticism entirely .î. Thatís also a shame. ÌMyopic focus on five points of Calvinism to the detriment of covenant theology, which undergirds the entirety of the canons of Dort .î.

Hmm. WellÖ In other words, hey, as long as youíre a five-point Calvinist, thatís all we care about. It doesnít matter.

And Iím like, can you be a five-point Calvinist without any concept of covenant theology? I think the answer is no, soÖ.

Okay, good. ÌChurch growth prioritized over church health .î Always a problem.

I mean, if you have a healthy church, the Lord will add to it, and if you have a huge church and itís not healthy, who really cares? Good.

ÌChurch celebrity culture, right, Driscoll and all that .î.

Itís a pandemic, right? And the amazing thing is the church doesnít learn. We have one problem after another, after another, after another, and then the next generation of, you know, celebrity arises.

ÌMulti-site and church campuses .î Not churches. ÌEvangelical book industrial complex .î Same authors, same publishers, same things over and over and over.

Yeah, somebody should give a speech warning about that a la Eisenhower and the military industrial complex.

ÌTurning everything into something to be gospel-centered .î I mean, you can make cookies in a gospel-centered fashion.

I think Iíd like some gospel-centered cookies.

They donít have any good brown sugar. Itís all stevia, I think.

Mmm, good, yummy stevia.

ÌReally awful forms of Trinitarianism. .î.

Endemic. I mean, those are everywhere, and they need to be rooted out.

ÌSetting up young and restless men in places of authority before theyíve matured .î. Hey, itís growing so fast, weíve got to have leaders here. Also a problem.

And we see it even now, you know, with people who are not ready for leadership being put on platforms and really then being forced to defend their positions that they cannot defend.

I think of Driscoll and some of these other folks, Matt Chandler, theyíre so young. Well, then it makes sense that they would put young people then in leadership positions because they were put in leadership positions when they were young.

I agree. ÌLastly, lack of conversation with classical Christian theism in favor of individual ingenuity of particular theologians .î In other words, forget classical theism.

Thatís Aquinas stuff. Yeah. Iím happy that all this is making a comeback, classical theism and whatnot, you know, men like Barrett and others kind of shining a light on the way the church used to believe and saying, ìWhy have we strayed from that? How do we get back to it ?î.

I think these are proper things to think about.

The Reformation, Classical Theism, and Priorities in Theology

Steve, donít you think that during the Reformation time, the Reformers said, ìYou know what? Whatís right and whatís wrong ?î. Well, letís not attack the things that are right that the church has taught and the Trinity they got right and the deity of Christ and the virgin birth, but theyíve got soteriology wrong or theyíve got sola scriptura wrong, so letís attack that.

Right. They didnít have to attack classical theism because it was right. Exactly.

Yeah. And I think itís always a matter of priority. People are, even on other issues like eschatology, ìWell, what do the Reformers believe ?î. You know, ìWhat do they believe about this, that, or the other thing ?î.

Well, they were fighting the big wars. They were fighting for scripture. They were fighting for the gospel. They were fighting for justification, you know, and these kind of things, and not so much on the other issues.

Thanks for listening. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of Godís Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. Weíre right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.