April 20, 2020 Show with Rev. Geoff Thomas on “Common Grace”

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April 21, 2020

April 20, 2020 Rev. GEOFF THOMAS, who, beginning in 1965, served for over 50 years as pastor @ Alfred Place Baptist Church of Aberystwyth, Wales, will address: “COMMON GRACE”

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01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:15: Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 20th day of April 2020, and I'm so thrilled once again to have the privilege and the honor and the blessing and the joy of interviewing
01:37: Reverend Jeff Thomas two days in a row. He's going to be on today, as I said before,
01:45: April 20th, and he's also going to be on the program, God willing, tomorrow,
01:51: Tuesday, the 21st of April. He is, or should I say he was, for over 50 years, the pastor of Alfred Place Baptist Church of Everest with Wales.
02:04: He is very well known as an author and conference speaker, having spoke at many conferences conducted by the
02:12: Banner of Truth and other ministries and churches, and not only has he been published by Banner of Truth, but he's also been published by Reformation Heritage Books and other publishers.
02:24: Today we have the honor of interviewing Reverend Thomas on the subject, Common Grace.
02:31: It is not without its controversies, and I am waiting with bated breath to interview
02:38: Jeff on this subject. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Reverend Jeff Thomas.
02:46: Well, thank you very much, Chris. I don't know why you keep asking me, but I'm up for it, and I have a few friends in America that I know are listening, and my dear friend here,
03:00: Ron, he'll be down there in the Carolinas listening, and he said, you tell me now when you're on,
03:06: I want to hear. It's a thrill to be just touching base with men and congregations that I esteem so highly.
03:19: Amen. Well, I am thrilled to have you on the program as often as the
03:25: Lord will allow you to, and so whenever you're interested in coming on, I would love to have you back.
03:31: In fact, I'm sure after tomorrow's broadcast, I'll be asking you to schedule another two -day interview.
03:42: Well, before we go into our subject about Common Grace, as I normally do, since there may be people listening, hearing about you for the first time, tell us about this church in Aberystwyth, Wales, Alfred Place Baptist Church, where you pastored for over half a century and is now being pastored by your grandson.
04:06: Yes, that's right. It's right in the middle. It's halfway between the North and South, and as in America and my, so many places in the world, there's a
04:18: North -South division. Ireland has it, and we have it in Wales. When we came to put up the first university, the
04:27: North wouldn't let the South have it, and the South wouldn't let the North have it, so they came to Aberystwyth right in the middle, and what was a sleepy little
04:36: Welsh town started to develop. The railway arrived there at the same time, and then it certainly grew, and other colleges and trade union headquarters moved in, because it was just accessible to the
04:53: North and to the South. I went there then in 1965, and it was, when a university goes to an area, then it's a challenge to historic
05:12: Christianity, because it challenges the supernatural and the redemptive and regeneration.
05:20: It likes morality, which it likes to define for itself, but it doesn't want the gospel of man's fall and depravity, and it doesn't want then the grace of God in the righteousness and the atoning death of Christ, and so the resurrection.
05:46: These truths were absent from so many pulpits for the first half of the last century, and so there was a challenge.
05:56: I had some fine believers in the congregation that were praying for better days, and I was blessed to be there and to be kept for that half a century.
06:11: Praise God, and I want our listeners to know that if you live near Aberystwyth, Wales, I know that we do have
06:20: Welsh listeners, and perhaps if you're ever vacationing there, if you don't live there, the website to find out more about Alfred Place Baptist Church in Aberystwyth, Wales is alfredplacechurch .org
06:36: .uk. alfredplacechurch .org .uk.
06:41: Well, as I said, this topic is an interesting one, a fascinating one,
06:47: Common Grace, and it is not without its controversy. In fact, our brethren in the
06:52: Protestant Reformed Church do not believe in this, although they do agree with us that God's blessings and mercies reign upon the just and the unjust alike.
07:04: I think it's more the phrase that they don't like. But if you could define
07:09: Common Grace. Yeah, well,
07:16: John Murray has, I think, the most succinct, yeah,
07:21: I think it is the shortest Common Grace, he says, is every favor of whatever kind, whatever degree, fallen short in salvation, which this undeserving and sin -kissed world enjoys at the hand of God.
07:41: He's got a great essay on Common Grace in Volume 2 of his
07:46: Collected Works, and that's as good as any definition.
07:53: Hodge says, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth, of holiness, of life, is present with every human mind, enforcing the truth, restraining from evil, exciting to good, imparting wisdom or strength when and where and what measure seems to him good.
08:13: This is what in theology is called Common Grace. And Eben Kuyper says it's an act of God which negatively curbs the operations of Satan and death and sin, and positively creates a condition for the world and for the human race, which though it's deeply sinful, he doesn't allow sin to dominate and destroy the world that he's made.
08:51: Amen. Well, I think one of the problems that, in fact
08:57: I know one of the problems that our Protestant Reformed brothers and sisters have with the phrase
09:03: Common Grace is that they want to assign the term grace only to salvific matters, and obviously
09:13: Common Grace is not, it's not always salvific, obviously if a lost person who is among the elect is shown mercy and blessings from heaven,
09:28: God could use that to draw that person to himself and save him, but Common Grace does not automatically lead to salvation, am
09:37: I right? That's right, they've defined grace as omnipotence, redeeming, and saving, and they consider that quite rightly to be a very precious truth, and so there hasn't been to say that there can be grace which doesn't save, and I think
10:11: I sympathize with them in that, but I don't know what else to call it, you can call it the goodness of God to man, you can call it his pity, his kindness, his patience, but when you are defining it in those words, you're coming back to the grace of God, aren't you?
10:37: You think now of the situation, the plight of the human race apart from Christ, Romans 3 .10,
10:46: none is righteous, no, not one, not one in London, not one in New York, no one understands, no one seeks for God, all have turned aside, together they've become worthless, no one does good, not even one, there is that, but that doesn't mean then, we call that doctrine total depravity, it doesn't mean that everyone is as bad as they can possibly be, or as they possibly will be.
11:15: Isn't that because of the very restraining hand of God? Their conscience, their intellect, their affections, their bodies, there's no part of man that hasn't been affected by sin, it pervades, it touches their soul and their spirit and their will, and that is the doctrine, and yet, what do we find?
11:48: Well, we find members of our family that are just super people, never go to church, we love them so much, and oh, we wish we more liked them, and we call them good people.
12:02: Your daughter gets a job in a school and you say, oh, what's the head like?
12:07: Oh, he's a good man, you know, she says to you and you're so glad, and she says, oh, you don't go to church, but he appreciates and he sympathizes with my convictions, and you are so glad that there are such people, honest and civil and generous and sexually restrained, you are so glad about that.
12:34: Men who lie under the wrath and curse of God and are heirs of hell, and yet they enjoy so many gifts at the hand of God, so many qualities and accomplishments, temporal happiness and cultural progress, and they do good for their families, and we know we've got
12:56: Christian families in our church, and oh, there are tensions, and then you know a non -Christian family and they're loving and they go on holidays and vacations together and they are thoughtful of one another, and the explanation is this grace of God, an earlier grace.
13:21: I live in the British Isles. We were benefited enormously by the Reformation, and then by the
13:28: Puritan period, and then by the Evangelical Awakening, by the 1859 Revival, by the translation of the
13:36: Bible into English. These great things have been in our past, and they have affected loads and loads of men and women who are not professing
13:52: Christians, but they admire these things.
14:00: So that's, I can only call that the grace of God.
14:08: Would you say that when we say that men, even the lost, or perhaps even especially the lost when we're talking about this, when we say that they are not as bad as they could be, we're not really saying that innately in their beings, according to their nature, that they're not extremely wicked.
14:34: We are saying that, isn't it God Himself who's really restraining the lost, the reprobate, from acting out as wickedly as He possibly could, and even thinking as wickedly as He could, and that is really to our benefit, isn't it?
14:52: Because if the world was filled in the majority with people who were unrestrained, not only could we not leave our doors and go outside without being killed, but we couldn't even remain in our own homes without being killed, right?
15:06: No, quite so. The manifestation of man's depravity isn't permitted to reach the maximum of which it's capable.
15:18: That's not the case. You know that, and I know that. My daughter called me on Tuesday last week.
15:24: She said, there's a man, and he climbed over the fence three doors up, and then two doors up, and a door up, and he came into our backyard, and my husband, he's a preacher here in London, she recognized him, he recognized him.
15:40: Twenty years ago he was coming to the youth meetings, but it's drugs and drink have destroyed him, and they tried to get him to go, and he wouldn't, and my daughter went out to try and persuade him, and then he got aggressive to her, and she ran in and phoned the police, and within four minutes a police car turned up, and he ran into the house over the way and broke a window there trying to get in.
16:12: They phoned the police too. I mean, that is so rare. That's never happened before, because there's a restraint in London that stops people behaving like that.
16:30: The workings of human depravity, unholy affections, the potentiality that's inherent in them, he prevents it bursting out in vehemence and violence.
16:44: The mark God placed on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him. God saying to Abimelech, the king of Galah, I kept you from sinning when he was going to have sexual relations with Sarah Abrams' wife.
17:01: We read in 2 Thessalonians 2 about the one who restrains the revelation of the lawless one.
17:10: Well, that's the Holy Spirit. That's what he does. There's this antichrist figure, and he's being restrained by God, by God's grace, and that's terrific.
17:24: Amen. I am certainly very, very grateful to God for that.
17:30: And we do have a listener who was formerly in your congregation when you were pastoring at the
17:40: Alfred Place Baptist Church in Everesteth, Wales. We have Mike, and he asks, let's see here,
17:49: Cornelius Vantill taught about common grace. In fact, I've just been reading about it in Covenantal Apologetics by Scott Oliphant.
18:00: Very powerful. Is this where Jeff is coming from? Yep, yep.
18:07: I'm a Vantillian. I'm a presupposition. I am epistemologically self -conscious.
18:16: I learned all those phrases from my old teacher, Vantill. I think if you follow Vantill on Common Grace, you're in safe hands.
18:25: He's had the influences of Bavinck in his life and his personal friendship with John Murray.
18:34: They were so close, those two. Yeah, I am exactly coming from Vantill, John Murray, Bavinck.
18:44: Yes. We do have John in Bangor, Maine, who has a question for you.
18:52: He said, I have heard that Abraham Kuyper is the first to have used this phrase, common grace.
18:59: Is that true? I know that the phrase itself is not in the Scriptures. No, it's not.
19:04: Trinity is not in Scripture. No, you couldn't say that Abraham Kuyper thought of it.
19:18: John Calvin uses it four times in all his writings, the phrase common grace.
19:25: In two of those occasions, he is referring to redeeming grace in its worldwide manifestation and activity.
19:36: So he's giving that hint. One of the Puritans uses it.
19:43: It's referred to really in the early chapters on the attributes of God.
19:58: Then Hodge has got a good section on it in his
20:04: Systematic Theology. Then Bavinck has got a fine section.
20:14: Louis Birkhoff is really a splendid section because in 1924, there was a huge debate then with Hockmar and the
20:26: Protestant Reformed denial, and he sets it out well.
20:32: So that's the background to where common grace comes from.
20:42: We do have another listener. We have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says,
20:50: It is a very hard thing for most of us to contemplate that someone we thought was a very dear and sweet and kind person with great integrity and great love and compassion toward us, that when they leave this planet after death, having been lost, not embracing
21:12: Jesus Christ, His Gospel, and His Word, the thought of them being punished is a horrible thing to contemplate, let alone eternal damnation.
21:24: My question is, do you think that these people, although we see them as such warm and kind and wonderful people here on earth, after death, the restraint of their evil is removed from them, and therefore, if we could see them in that state, we would more readily recognize their worthiness of damnation?
21:49: That's a very, very fine and important point.
21:55: And I would go a step further in our attitude to these people.
22:08: The image of God in man, the conscience that is
22:14: His monitor, that rebukes us when we do what is evil and commends us when we do what is right, and creates then, through God's common grace, such loveliness, such beauty of character, such sensitivity.
22:34: Sometimes we look at people and think, why it be hard for them to become a Christian, because they've got it all already, they're so wonderful.
22:43: Well, in hell, the image of God, the beauty, the loveliness, what you have said, all those things are removed.
22:57: Those are the things that come now upon us because of God's loving kindness.
23:06: God loves the world, and God is good to all men.
23:13: It's part of what we say, hasn't God been good to you through your life? He's blessed you in so many ways.
23:21: That goodness, that blessing, those marks of grace, the image of God, that's not when they stand in their rebellion and enmity against God in judgment.
23:43: They've never wanted to come to Christ, and that certainly shows itself now.
23:50: They're not saying, please let me get to heaven. They don't want Christ, they don't want
23:56: God. All those good things, exactly what you said, I agree with. And this is always, as the listener,
24:06: Christopher, said, always a hard thing to contemplate, especially if we're close to somebody that departs this earth without coming to Christ.
24:18: Do you think that one of the reasons that God does demonstrate
24:26: His common grace, even on the reprobate, those that will never come to saving faith, is that it makes them even more ripe for judgment because they have, even though they have been overwhelmed with goodness and blessing from God, they still rejected
24:42: Him? That would be, I presume, that Jesus speaks to Chorazin and Bethsaid and says, if the things that were done in you had been done in Sodom, Sodom would have repented.
25:06: You had the Son of God, you had so many blessings you saw,
25:11: Lazarus raised from the dead, you heard the sermon on the mountain, yet you rejected.
25:17: Your condemnation will be greater, because to whom much is given, much is required of such people.
25:29: Now if you could, before we go to our first break, provide some more biblical proofs that this common grace, we believe, is indeed something that is taught in the
25:43: God -breathed pages of the Bible. Yeah, right, well, you would, yes, you would find it, for example, in Romans 2 -4.
26:02: Do you presume on the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
26:16: That would be a very important verse. And then there is the fact that God blessed
26:29: Potiphar and his house because of the presence and work of Joseph there.
26:37: He wasn't a saved man, but he had such good things from God.
26:45: And then you have Jesus in the Sermon on the
26:50: Mount saying how God sends His sunshine and His rain on all men,
26:59: He makes His sunrise on the evil and the good, sends rain on the just and the unjust. He isn't just a
27:05: Christian farmer, but the unbelieving, blaspheming man in the farm next door, he gets good crops too.
27:16: The Father is described as kind to the ungrateful and the evil,
27:22: Luke 6 -35. God speaks and the
27:30: Lord speaks to the rich man in hell and He says, God was good to you in your life, wasn't
27:38: He? You had good things from the Lord in your life. And then at Lystra, Paul says,
27:45: God did good by giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness,
27:54: Acts 14 -17. So those would be some of the verses that one would appeal to, which seems to me, without any question, underlines the kindness and the richness of God's mercy to the ungrateful and to the evil.
28:21: Amen. And another example that came to mind, in Psalm 73,
28:27: David seems to be troubled very greatly that God has common grace upon the wicked because he is asking, why do the wicked prosper?
28:37: I mean, he sees that God's blessings, in a physical sense, often overflow upon the reprobate and the unrighteous and the wicked, even at times in a measurable, physical way, much more abundantly on the wicked.
28:58: Quite so. Yeah, that is the case. And of course, the blessing that the whole earth receives,
29:06: Psalm 65 is full of that. Pastures of the wilderness overflow, the hills gird themselves with joy, the meadows clothe themselves with flocks, the valleys deck themselves with grain, they shout and sing together for joy.
29:23: And you've seen it, haven't you? Why, you travel through the
29:30: Rockies and, boy, your breath is taken away. John Murray goes to a great redwood forest, a sequoia tree, and, oh, wow, he says, isn't that wonderful?
29:42: He goes and touches these huge trees and men see the beauty of God in the world around them.
29:52: Well, we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
30:02: chrisarnson at gmail .com. And, as always, please give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the
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30:15: We'll be right back with Reverend Jeff Thomas and more on Common Grace. Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a
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41:52: He's a dear brother, isn't he? Yep, he certainly is. And I know that he has gotten you to endorse a number of the books with your commendations over the years.
42:03: Yes, and he's preached to me in Aberystwyth, and I've often been with him, of course.
42:13: Amen. Well, we do have a listener from another mutual, who is another mutual friend of ours, who has a question here.
42:22: Pastor Mac Tomlinson from Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas, says,
42:29: Thanks for being on for us here in America, dear Jeff. And his question is, how is the personal love of God for people involved in common grace?
42:42: I'm assuming that he, in fact, if you want to clarify your question, Pastor Mac, I'm assuming he's perhaps talking about how
42:52: God loves the non -elect, the reprobate, because there is, as you know, just like with common grace itself, there is disagreement amongst even
43:04: Reformed people in the same denomination, sometimes in the same pew, over how
43:10: God actually loves those who are going to hell. So if you could please, and I don't know if that is where Mac was coming from, but I think it must have been where he was coming from.
43:23: Yeah, yeah, that's a wonderful question, Mac. It's so kind to listen.
43:30: You've been so good to me for so many years and a great encouragement. The love of God, when
43:41: Nathan met King David, who had arranged the murder of Bathsheba's husband,
43:51: Uriah, and then impregnated her and took her, and was unrepentant for a year, when
44:03: Nathan went to see him, Nathan didn't say to him, God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.
44:12: God said to him, he told him the story of a rich man who sent his booty boys in to steal the only lamb of a very poor man, and they ate that lamb and he had flocks on the hills, and then he said to him, you are the man, that's what you've done.
44:38: You have wives, and Uriah just had one beautiful wife, and you took him, his life away, and took her from him.
44:52: You are the man, and David is convicted, and David needs to repent.
45:00: There was a love in God sending Nathan there to bring him that message.
45:07: The message was not, there's no hope for you, you're going straight to hell for what you've done. The message was intended to bring
45:15: David to repentance for his sin.
45:21: I say that, I stand in the pulpit, and I look at my congregation, and they're a mixture, and there are members there that are unsaved, under careless, and I say to them,
45:35: God has loved you so much, he's brought you here today to hear about his son
45:41: Jesus Christ, and to hear that he has come into the world to seek and to save, and that he's willing to become your
45:51: Lord, and your Savior, and he's now showing his love for you, because he's given you this message to bring to you, that if you turn from your sins, and if you receive
46:07: Jesus Christ, and you will have all the blessings of grace, you will have everything working together for your good, and God supplying all your needs, and all the help that he can give you, and you'll be at death, you'll go to glory, and God has loved you, and brought you here, and I'm bringing this sincere message to you now, of his love for you, that wants you sincerely to turn from your sins, and believe in Jesus Christ, that's how
46:48: I go about that, what I find difficult with people who say they don't believe in the free offer of the gospel, but they do believe in the universal command, that all men everywhere should repent, well that command, that isn't like a sergeant major speaking to the recruits, and saying left, right, left, right, stop, turn right, turn left, and ordering them, when our parents want their children to repent of their sin, they are tender, and loving, and so concerned for them, when a wife wants her husband to repent of his sins, and believe she does everything, to show her love for him, and her desire that he should, so if you believe in now, there is a universal command of God, that people should repent of their sins, and you almost know
47:58: I am, in believing that there is this universal, sincere offer that God is making of Jesus Christ, to be your
48:08: Lord, and to be your Savior, if you trust and believe in him, so that's how
48:14: I go about dealing with the question of the universal, personal love of God, for all men, even those that are going to harden their hearts, and reject him.
48:34: Now, I'm assuming that you believe that although there exists a universal love of God, towards all of humanity, that there are different kinds and degrees of love, because for instance,
48:52: I don't think that anyone could logically, and consistently, from an exegesis of scripture, teach that God loves the reprobate, the one who is going to hell, as a spouse, or as a child.
49:09: In fact, the Bible even says that those who are not Christians, are the children of the devil.
49:17: We were children of the devil before we were regenerate, and we were adopted, and rescued.
49:23: But isn't there a different kind of love that God demonstrates?
49:30: Of course, Chris, absolutely. In Romans 9, it is very clear that God discriminates between two brothers.
49:42: He uses the word hate for Esau. Yeah, yeah, Jacob, I love
49:48: Esau, I hate it. So, yeah, there is that. And you asked me then, how can
49:55: I discriminate? Well, I don't know. I don't know which one is an Esau in his heart, and which one is a
50:02: Jacob in his heart. I don't know. God does know. But I do know that God has given me, that I've got good news for everyone without exception.
50:15: I have a savior for them. I have a protector for them. I have a teacher for them.
50:21: I have a shepherd who would look after them. This is what
50:27: I am offering to them. I believe that very sincerely, and that's part of the living entreaties of the gospel.
50:36: But I also believe then that there is a choosing by God.
50:45: There are those that are elected to be saved, and he loves them, and he's given them to his son.
50:53: And his son comes into the world, and he says, Father, I don't pray for all men. I pray for those that you have given to me, that they will be with me where I am.
51:03: And Jesus makes that discrimination, and I make that discrimination, but I also then go where Scripture goes, and Scripture does tell me of a caring, loving, entreaty, sincere offer that God makes to all men.
51:26: And I can't reconcile the two, but I go with Scripture in believing them both.
51:31: Now, I'm assuming from everything you said that even though the
51:37: Apostle Paul, who was speaking through the inspiration, he was speaking
51:44: God -breathed truths directly from God, when he said in Romans 9 that Jacob I loved and Esau I hated,
51:54: I'm assuming you believe that even though he hated Esau, there was a form of love that he still had for him nonetheless?
52:01: From what you read of Esau's later life and his tenderness towards his brother, he was a recipient of the goodness of God through his life, although he was a child of wrath.
52:23: Great. I'm going to read a question for you and have you answer it when we return.
52:29: This is a first -time questioner. His name is Zach from Pocahontas, Arkansas.
52:35: Never heard of that city. And he says, thank you both for this episode.
52:42: If common grace is not sufficient for salvation, why are people held responsible for coming to proper conclusion, coming to a proper conclusion,
52:53: I think he meant to say, about the facts of creation? And then, even when the information is processed correctly, unless the gospel is shared with that people group, is there any hope for them?
53:06: Almost sounds a little bit like the question that Paul brings up in Romans 9 that the unbeliever would say to Paul in response to the clear teaching of unconditional election that how can
53:26: God find fault for who could resist his will? It's almost a little bit attached in there.
53:34: But we will have you respond to Zach's question after we return from the break.
53:41: This is our longer than normal break, folks, so please be patient. We have to air more commercials in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida, they air this program twice a day in a prerecorded format, and they are required by the
53:55: FCC to air their own public service announcements and other things that localize
54:01: Zion Sherpa and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida. And while they do that, we air our own globally heard commercials.
54:09: So please take this time to write down the information on many of our advertisers or advertisements so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.
54:24: And even if you cannot actually patronize them, if it's not a business, if it's a church that's very far away from you, perhaps
54:31: I'm asking you please to write to them, to let them know how much you are grateful to them for sponsoring
54:38: Iron Trip and Zion Radio, if indeed you are, if indeed you love the show. But write down the information that our advertisers provide, and also write down questions for Jeff Thomas on Common Grace, and send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com,
54:55: chrisarnson at gmail .com, and give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the
55:02: USA. Only remain anonymous if the question involves a personal or private matter. We'll be back after these messages with more of Jeff Thomas.
55:13: Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Trip and Zion Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.
55:20: His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.
55:28: Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled
55:33: Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.
55:38: Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.
55:46: He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.
55:54: He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.
56:06: In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.
56:12: In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,
56:24: I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.
56:30: Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878.
56:38: Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.
56:44: That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops and local hangouts,
57:05: Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.
57:14: Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.
57:23: Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.
57:36: Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray or all of the above.
57:43: For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.
57:50: That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.
57:59: That's l -i -y -f -c dot org. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
58:23: A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
58:32: Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshipped and how
58:38: He shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
58:46: God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
58:52: God -centered focus. Reading, preaching and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy and sobriety.
59:06: Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at g -c -b -c -n -j dot squarespace dot com.
59:16: That's g -c -b -c -n -j dot squarespace dot com.
59:22: Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.
59:32: Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life, bringing so many uncertainties.
59:51: When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear and the like?
59:59: Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron with your host Chris Arnzen and Pastor Joe Jackiewicz as they explore
01:00:07: God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues. Tune in at FirstLoveRadio .org.
01:00:16: That's FirstLoveRadio .org. Each Friday at 1 p .m.
01:00:21: Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. That's Iron Sharpens Iron on FirstLoveRadio .org.
01:00:28: Fridays, 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. To hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.
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01:01:51: I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.
01:01:56: I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
01:02:03: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
01:02:10: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim
01:02:27: Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.
01:02:34: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
01:02:43: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
01:02:50: That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.
01:02:59: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:03:20: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
01:03:26: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
01:03:34: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
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01:03:54: and co -founder of New York Apologetics, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
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01:04:11: Historical Bible Society, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Josh Miller of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and the
01:04:20: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Joe Bianchi, president of Calvi Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina, and the
01:04:30: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jake Korn of Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida, and the
01:04:40: NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
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01:06:35: That's ptlbiblerebinding .com Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpman's Iron Radio.
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01:08:31: There is no voicemail. So please always remember to mention to them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.
01:08:40: Before we return to our discussion on Common Grace with Rev. Jeff Thomas, we just have a few announcements to make.
01:08:48: First of all, we were very sad to hear that the Banner of Truth conference has been canceled, which was going to take place the last week of May.
01:09:00: And it's very understandable, obviously, in these times that we're living in with the coronavirus pandemic.
01:09:08: So they have canceled, or should I say postponed, and there may be a new date coming down the way that we will let you know about.
01:09:16: But because of that, since they were flying in Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, who was one of the speakers at that conference, we have therefore canceled or postponed our
01:09:33: Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio spring pastor's luncheon, because Dr. Mbewe was the keynote speaker.
01:09:39: So we will keep you updated on any new date that we schedule for the free spring
01:09:47: Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio pastor's luncheon. And tomorrow on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, my dear friend, the rector of St.
01:09:57: Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, Reverend Roger Salter, is going to be on the program.
01:10:04: He's a Reformed 39 Articles Protestant Anglican, and he is going to be addressing a theme that we have not yet decided on.
01:10:15: But no matter what it is, I'm sure you will be blessed. He is a phenomenal guest every time he's on, and I always get good reports from listeners afterward.
01:10:25: And then on Thursday, the 23rd of April, Ron McKinney will be on the program for the very first time to talk about the journey that his dad
01:10:36: Don had taken his whole family, the McKinney family, by God's grace, the journey that he took them on out of Arminian Pentecostalism into the doctrines of sovereign grace.
01:10:53: And I mean no disrespect to my Pentecostal and charismatic friends who listen to this program, and some of whom
01:11:00: I've interviewed, but being a Calvinist myself, I cannot be ashamed of these precious truths,
01:11:05: I believe. And I think it's a remarkable story that you will hear from Ron McKinney this
01:11:12: Thursday. And then, of course, as you've been hearing advertised, Joe Jackowitz will be returning on Friday, as he does every
01:11:21: Friday during this pandemic, to give an update on the coronavirus and give biblical application on how
01:11:28: Christians should respond to it. Folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear,
01:11:34: I'm urging you to please go to www .ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.
01:11:40: You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing so. And I'm urging you please to help us, especially since we have at least temporarily lost two of our largest sponsors, who had to put their advertising and their financial support on hiatus because their businesses have been seriously negatively affected by the coronavirus scare globally.
01:12:07: So, please help us to make up for that lost income. That was a huge blow to us, because we were already on shaky ground financially before that happened.
01:12:17: I thank God, and I thank God for you, all of you who have been responding generously to these
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01:12:37: You folks have really blessed me in ways I can't even describe. You have shown me that this program is of great value to you, and that means the world to me.
01:12:48: And some of you I have never even heard from before, which is also a great blessing to know that there are either new listeners joining the audience who want to keep this program on the air, or perhaps these are long -time listeners who have never given before, and they just finally said,
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01:13:55: And also, please don't put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Those two things are commands of scripture, providing for your church and home.
01:14:05: Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of scripture, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you love this show, you have extra money now that you haven't been able to go to sporting events, or concerts, or theatrical performances, or go out for fine dining, or many of the other things that you used to love to do that absorbed a lot of your finances, well please, could you use some of that money to help us out, to help us remain on the air, if indeed you love the show.
01:14:43: We would love to hear from you at www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com and then click support, then click, click to donate now.
01:14:49: If you want to advertise with us, we could certainly use your advertising dollars as well.
01:14:55: We are in urgent need of them, and as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign.
01:15:04: Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.
01:15:13: Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, and you're not even prayerfully seeking for one, you are living in rebellion against God, there's no such thing as a maverick, lone wolf
01:15:25: Christian in the New Testament who does not submit himself or herself to the authority of local elders in a local church.
01:15:35: So please rectify that situation. I may be able to help you, because I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, including
01:15:43: Alfred Place Baptist Church in Everest with Wales, if you happen to live in Wales. I have helped people all over the planet
01:15:51: Earth find churches near where they live, where they have visited and joined some of them.
01:15:57: Some of them have visited these churches when they're on vacation, and some of these folks have referred these churches to loved ones who live in areas where they were having a difficult time finding a church.
01:16:09: So please, if you need help, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.
01:16:15: That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Jeff Thomas, who was the pastor at Alfred Place Baptist Church in Everest with Wales for over half a century.
01:16:27: Very rarely do you hear about a man who has faithfully served one church for that long.
01:16:33: And if you'd like to join us, we are talking about common grace, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:16:41: chrisarnson at gmail .com And I will read these questions again one at a time from Zach in Pocahontas, Arkansas that I read before the break, but I'll reread them to you so they're fresh in your mind.
01:16:56: Thank you both for this episode. If common grace is not sufficient for salvation, why are people held responsible for coming to a proper conclusion about the facts of creation?
01:17:10: I don't know about you, Jeff. Well, I'm pretty certain you would agree, is that I do believe that every mercy extended by God is sufficient for salvation, but I don't believe that common grace, especially when it's extended toward the reprobate,
01:17:29: I don't believe it's intended for salvation, and I think those are two different things, being sufficient or intended.
01:17:35: But if you could pick up where I left off there. I'm not quite sure what our brother is asking here.
01:17:46: Common grace has made the world is very beautiful and full of joy to me.
01:17:53: The sun shines out in glory on everything I see. I know I shall be happy while in this world
01:18:01: I stay, for I will follow Jesus all the way. Grace has taught my heart to see.
01:18:08: As I look at creation, I see the heavens declaring to me the glories of my
01:18:15: Savior, without whom was not anything made that was not made. So grace has helped me.
01:18:24: Grace has given me an understanding of who made this world and why it was made and what's gone wrong in this world before my father,
01:18:36: Adam. So all that has come to me, the great lessons that my
01:18:43: Savior has taught me, and all the elect of God come that same way.
01:18:53: They say, mercy. God, be merciful to me.
01:18:59: Mighty Creator, be merciful to me. And the fruit then is saving trust in Jesus only.
01:19:13: And when God says to us, why should I let you into my heaven? We say,
01:19:19: Jesus, because of him. And all our cry is for mercy.
01:19:27: The unregenerate man does not say that and cannot say it until saving grace.
01:19:36: He's been the beneficiary of so much goodness and kindness and patience and mercy all through his life.
01:19:45: God has been so good to him that he has failed then to appropriate the saving grace and say, then,
01:19:53: Lord, please save me. And that's what all you who are listening, that's what you need to do.
01:19:59: You must cast yourselves on the mercy of God and show that you really have done that by a new life way.
01:20:08: Jesus Christ is numero uno, number one in your life. It could be that Zach, in fact,
01:20:16: Zach, if you want to send in another email to clarify this, it could be that Zach is referring to Romans 1 and he's asking, why are people held responsible for coming to a proper conclusion about the facts of creation?
01:20:35: Because obviously, general revelation is not sufficient to save men.
01:20:44: It is only sufficient to hold them accountable. And in Romans 1, it seems to be teaching, or I think it is teaching, that men innately know or already have a proper conclusion about creation, but they suppress the truth.
01:21:07: They do. They clamp down on it, don't they? In their alienation and rebellion against God.
01:21:15: They don't want to know the God whose glory and lordship over them is manifested in conscience and in the glory and divinity of God that is seen in His world.
01:21:34: And the second question is, and then even when the information is processed correctly, unless the gospel is shared with that people group, is there any hope for them?
01:21:47: Oh, of course not. Of course not. Who is this God that, well, His name is
01:21:53: Jehovah Jesus, without whom was not anything made, but was made.
01:21:59: He was with God in the beginning, and He is God. And He then has so loved the world that He's come into this world and lived the righteous life and died the atoning death.
01:22:12: That reconciles a holy God to us. And so you have to receive
01:22:19: Him. You have to believe on Him. And on that cross, the only two things that mattered took place.
01:22:31: What Jesus Christ did and how God responded. And nothing else matters.
01:22:38: And all we can do then is plead that Jesus, the
01:22:44: Lamb of God who takes away our sin, and all we can say to Him is, because of Jesus, for Jesus' sake, save me.
01:22:56: Amen. Well, thank you so much, Zach. And by the way, since you are a first -time questioner, you have won a free
01:23:03: New American Standard Bible. So please make sure that you email me your full mailing address in Pocahontas, Arkansas.
01:23:10: And that will be shipped out to you by our friends at cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.
01:23:18: So keep your eye open in the mail for that package from cvbbs .com.
01:23:26: Linda Tomlinson, who is Pastor Mac's wife there in Denton, Texas, says, This is so good.
01:23:33: And I'm glad that she sent that little note because it reminded me. I don't think I remembered to give,
01:23:38: I wanted to give Pastor Mac's website because it's such a fine church, and I always like to promote biblically faithful churches whenever they providentially come to my attention during a discussion.
01:23:58: And so if anybody living in Denton, Texas, or visiting there, or if you have family, friends, and loved ones living there, just as I do, my brother
01:24:07: John lives very near there, the website is
01:24:12: ProvidenceDenton .org, ProvidenceDenton .org. Let's see here, we have,
01:24:22: I'll take this last question before we switch gears because I know that you wanted to go into the dangers of misuse of common grace.
01:24:33: Am I right on that for the second half? Yes, that's exactly what I'd like to do. I will.
01:25:08: I will. I want my friends in Cork to hear me. Well, if you could, how is and can this teaching of common grace be so abused that it's dangerous?
01:25:23: Right. Well, let me just settle in a comfy position here and open up this subject a little bit to you.
01:25:38: I think first of all that common grace is one of these twig and leaf doctrines.
01:25:48: I don't think that it is a major doctrine of the
01:25:56: Christian faith, like the Trinity or the deity of Christ, but it's like the doctrines of church government and the millennium and the man of sin in 2
01:26:11: Thessalonians 2 and the origin of the soul. When does, do we inherit it or does
01:26:21: God create it and we debate these things and Samadhi, the future of Israel.
01:26:31: I don't like that a church or a group of churches separates over the issue of common grace, that they reject it and so they're not going to meet with their brothers and sisters.
01:26:50: We are facing enormous hostility from atheism at the present time and I don't want we who hold to the
01:27:06: Synod of Dort and the Westminster Confession, the 1689 Baptist Confession, I don't want us to be divided from one another on an issue like common grace.
01:27:21: I don't want to make it a trunk and branch doctrine. I think it's a tree and leaf doctrine.
01:27:27: Okay, that's the first thing I want to say. And then secondly, I think it's an intoxicating doctrine.
01:27:34: My, you know, I can see when you discover common grace how beautiful it is.
01:27:43: If you've been in a group of churches and they've been saying to you, come out from the world, separate yourself from the world.
01:27:53: If you get involved in the world, you are simply painting the deck chairs on the
01:27:59: Titanic. And you know Jesus in John 17 says, I don't ask that they be taken out of the world.
01:28:07: I don't think that there's just one message we have to mankind. That is that they are to turn their backs on the world and separate themselves from the world.
01:28:23: I think then you see the discovery of the cultural mandate and the physicality of the world that God has created for its glory is quite revolutionary.
01:28:34: And the priesthood of all believers, the legitimate vocation everyone has, whether they are running a sewage plant or being a military man or a homekeeper or a preacher, they can fulfill their vocations to the glory of God.
01:28:53: And that's a great thing, the priesthood of all believers. And seeing these things then, seeing the world and life view of Christianity and to see common grace, that's a great doctrine.
01:29:06: But also it's a dangerous doctrine. It's captivating. It says, ah, we are relevant now, we are interesting, and you're only interested in preaching and pastoring and officers' meetings and look at this exciting world of common grace.
01:29:27: But, you know, there is so much in the world, in the disciplines of sciences and the arts and economics and finance and politics, and there is no stuff in the
01:29:40: Bible that relates to those things. There are great principles of morality and the general purpose of all our activities to glorify and enjoy
01:29:52: God, of course, and we do believe in that, but there's not a distinctive Christian approach to such matters as knitting and mathematics and carpentry and meteorology and design and dentistry and sporting activities.
01:30:11: And I think, for example, Francis Schaeffer's best books are those that expound portions of Scripture and stay close to its exegesis.
01:30:22: That's a great thing. And those are the best things that Abraham Kuyper wrote. His devotionals are powerful.
01:30:30: And so I think it's a siren's voice that wants you to be more engaged in cultural matters, and I am fearful of that.
01:30:46: Donald Lloyd -Jones, in 1979, two years before he died, was speaking at Westminster Chapel at the
01:30:55: British Evangelical Council conference. And I was there, and his text was
01:31:02: Matthew 22 -21. Then Jesus said unto them, Render therefore unto
01:31:08: Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. And this is what he said.
01:31:15: There is such a thing as common grace, and it's not part of the preaching of the gospel to say that the
01:31:22: Christian is to take no interest whatsoever in various aspects of life. They're all perfectly legitimate, but we mustn't give them an order of importance which they don't merit.
01:31:34: We mustn't be over -preoccupied with them in their place. It's all right to be talking about politics, if you like, and social matters, and art, and culture, and drama, but they mustn't be in the center.
01:31:49: You mustn't be preoccupied with them. That's one of the dangerous tendencies that I observe more and more evangelicals, as well as others, are putting these things into the center.
01:32:00: And everyone is talking about the Christian attitude to politics, Christian attitude to education, Christian attitude to culture, or war, this and that.
01:32:09: That's become central. And if we do, then the impression will be gained that Christianity is nothing but some kind of exceptional or strange philosophical attitude towards a number of burning contemporary social questions.
01:32:25: We're living in a materialist age. We're living in a sophisticated age. We're living in an age where men and women are experts in particular matters.
01:32:35: And you and I ought to be experts on the things of which they are entirely ignorant.
01:32:42: The tragedy of the world today is that it's forgotten the supernatural. It's forgotten God. Man is in the center.
01:32:49: His interests, his questions, his enthusiasms, his obsessions. Man is ever before us.
01:32:56: Our task is to proclaim the everlasting and eternal
01:33:01: God. That's what Dr. John said that night when I heard him.
01:33:07: His concern. So, I think what the emphasis on common grace has done is that it has affected our hopes of the glory and joy of heaven.
01:33:30: Which, for me, is to see the face of God in Jesus Christ.
01:33:37: The invisible God is going to make himself known to us in Jesus Christ. And that is being emphasized.
01:33:44: With this world and life view, the eschatological emphasis is on the renewal of creation.
01:33:52: And not on going to heaven when we die. The climax of redemptive history is now our resurrection and the renewal of the earth.
01:34:01: And so little is made of our hope of standing in the presence of God and beholding the face of Jesus Christ in a new heaven.
01:34:15: Where's this heavenly perspective that's so crucial to Christian praise and devotion and doxology?
01:34:24: The psalmist says, one thing that I ask of the Lord that will I seek after. That I may dwell in the house of the
01:34:30: Lord all the days of my life to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in his temple.
01:34:39: And that, I think, is we've lost, many have lost that.
01:34:48: We have lost the longing.
01:34:55: The old gospel hymn said, Oh that will be glory for me when by his grace
01:35:03: I shall look at his face. That will be glory, glory for me.
01:35:11: And I'm not ashamed of Sankey's hymn that sings like that because I want to see my
01:35:22: Savior. I want to see my Lord. And that's the hope that I want to see increased in me as years approaching my death grow nearer and nearer.
01:35:37: And I don't want to be sidetracked into matters of the world
01:35:45: I view and common grace. I want Jesus to be there before me.
01:35:53: All in all. And those were some of the things I wanted to say to you,
01:35:59: Chris, about the dangers of this doctrine. Amen, and I'm going to go to our final break.
01:36:04: It's going to be a lot more brief than the last one. If anybody wants to send in a question of your own, do so quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.
01:36:13: ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. We'll be right back after these messages. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the
01:36:21: Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the
01:36:34: Brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.
01:36:41: I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my
01:36:49: New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the
01:37:00: Holy Scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.
01:37:05: I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,
01:37:11: Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
01:37:19: That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.
01:37:26: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:37:47: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
01:37:53: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
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01:39:37: O Hail the Power of Jesus' Name This is
01:39:45: Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:39:50: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
01:39:59: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:40:12: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.
01:40:18: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:40:32: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
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01:40:49: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:40:55: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
01:41:03: Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, and if you just tuned us in,
01:41:09: Jeff Thomas has been our guest for nearly two hours now. We've got a little less than 20 minutes left in the program, and we are discussing
01:41:19: Common Grace. If you have a question, please send it immediately, because they're rapidly running out of time.
01:41:25: ChrisArnzen at gmail .com We have a clarification from Zach in Pocahontas, Florida.
01:41:35: I'm sorry, Pocahontas, Arkansas. He says, Yes, sir,
01:41:40: I was speaking of Romans 1. My quotation was added after listening to the episode with R .C.
01:41:48: Sproul answering on the love for the world. Yes, my webmaster just posted a blast from the past where I had interviewed
01:42:00: R .C. Sproul before he went home to glory, and that is now available on the archive of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:42:09: Zach says, I was assuming general revelation and grace was intended to bring man to Christ.
01:42:20: Do you have an answer to that? I think that the general revelation part was only intended to make men responsible, but obviously it has been used to draw the elect to salvation, but it's obviously not always intended for that purpose, because many who, in fact all men, have the knowledge of general revelation, but they suppress it, as we were saying before.
01:42:44: But anyway, what do you think, Reverend? Well, the goodness of God is there in this beautiful world that we've made, that he's made, and the goodness of God to us that should lead us to repentance from...
01:43:05: Yeah. And men... Men plead that they didn't know.
01:43:15: But Lord, we didn't know. Didn't I put you in a land where there were
01:43:22: Bible churches and there were radio broadcasts and the scriptures had been translated into your tongue, and didn't you have a neighbor, a friend, a member of your family who was praying for you and knew
01:43:35: God? Didn't you go to a funeral where the Gospels preach, a wedding where the beauties of Christian marriage...
01:43:44: God speaks to us in many, many different ways, but men suppress the truth in their unbelief.
01:43:54: So general revelation takes us so far, but the
01:43:59: Lord had to open Lydia's heart in order for her to believe, and he can do that.
01:44:09: And it breaks my heart when I hear a man preaching the
01:44:14: Gospel and then he says at the end of it, Now God can do no more. It's all up to you.
01:44:20: God's hands are tied. And then he prays to the tied -up God to save the people that are listening.
01:44:28: Come on now. God can. He opened Lydia's heart and gives us encouragement to pray for our loved ones that he opened their hearts to.
01:44:38: And Zach concludes, Thank you for the great responses. I'm a new listener to your podcast.
01:44:44: I first heard of you because of the recent purgatory conversation with Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.
01:44:52: I've also recently come out of an Armenian Pentecostal church. Your content along with Ligonier and many others have been and will be great helps for my spiritual realignment.
01:45:04: Thank you very much. Well thank you, Zach, for that encouragement and thank you for your address in Pocahontas, Arkansas.
01:45:10: And keep your eye open for the Bible from CBBBS .com. We have
01:45:16: Pastor Bruce who is a friend of mine, Pastor Bruce Bennett. He is the pastor of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York.
01:45:27: It's been a while since I've heard from him with a question. And I'm glad that he's joined us on the air with a question.
01:45:35: And I have to enlarge the font because it's very, very tiny. So while I'm doing that, send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:45:43: chrisarnson at gmail .com. And give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.
01:45:49: Here's the question. Do the non -elect primarily perish for their sins or for not believing in Jesus?
01:46:02: They perish because of their sins, don't they? They're not neutral. They're rebels.
01:46:09: They are at enmity against God. They're saying, we will not have this man rule over us.
01:46:18: And that is why then their condemnation comes upon them.
01:46:28: And for all the people in the world that have never had a clear presentation of the gospel, the
01:46:38: Bible hasn't been translated into their language yet, all of them will be judged according to the light and knowledge they have or what they see in general revelation, what they know in their conscience, what flickers they've had of mercy and love from God.
01:47:06: And the tragedy is they all know more than they do.
01:47:12: All of them are being commended by all that God has done to them to give up their sins and their wickedness and all the terrible things that they do and cry to God for mercy, but they're not doing because men love darkness rather than light.
01:47:38: And that is why they are being condemned because of their love of sin.
01:47:48: Amen. And obviously since there have been throughout history millions of people who never heard the gospel presented to them and never heard even the name of Jesus Christ, they could not be held accountable for that because unlike general revelation, that is not something that everybody has heard, so therefore they are going to be damned because of their sin, as you just said.
01:48:17: Well, the great thing, I think, Chris, is always to remember that the judgment will be scrupulously fair, that God is good, that God will bring every factor into consideration as He evaluates the lives of all who must give an account to Him so that there will be no one who will be able to plead that they were dealt with unjustly, that it was unfair, and that all of us, then, who will have longed for all that we know and love to come to the knowledge and the confession with their lips and their belief in their hearts that Jesus Christ is
01:49:11: Lord, and they have not. We will say in that day, the judge of all the earth did right.
01:49:21: Amen. So therefore, when we say that someone is going to be damned because they did not believe upon the name of Christ, what we mean by that is that they did not have the covering of His blood to redeem them, but it's not the specific sin that they're going to hell for, the disbelief.
01:49:44: Exactly. They didn't have the cure for the cancer, the spiritual cancer.
01:49:53: Well, thank you, my dear friend, Pastor Bruce Bennett, and I want to give his website, too.
01:50:00: It's wotchurch .com, W -O -T, for word of truth, church .com.
01:50:08: And, actually, that has something relevant to my next question to you.
01:50:15: When we were talking about the abuses or the dangers of common grace, I think many thousands, maybe even millions, and, in fact,
01:50:26: I'm certain, millions of Christians, those who are truly our brothers and sisters, but they are in great error in one very significant way, is that they, in their twisting of common grace, they believe that God does love all men and women and children equally, in the same way, and I touched on that earlier when we were having you distinguish between the way
01:50:57: He loves different people, because, therefore, you're going to have people thinking, well, if God loves everybody equally, there's no way
01:51:09: He's going to send them to hell. You know, you have people who become universalists, who,
01:51:18: I would say that they are outside of the pale of orthodoxy or the realm of Bible -believing
01:51:27: Christianity, but you also have people left in a difficult dilemma because they are saying that there are people being tormented in hell that Jesus loves just as much as He loves those in heaven, and that makes absolutely no sense.
01:51:47: Of course. Of course it doesn't. Of course. No, there is a discrimination.
01:51:55: There is an election of grace. God says to the people of God and to the
01:52:03: Old Covenant, you only have I known, and you know in the Scriptures to know someone means to love them, doesn't it?
01:52:11: Adam knew his wife Eve, and that was not just cognizance, that was a passionate and intimate love that he had for her, and God had that love not for the
01:52:27: Babylonians or the Medes and the Persians and the Egyptians and the Romans and the Greeks, but a love for His people that He had sent the prophets to and set up the whole
01:52:38: Levitical sacrifice for they were His people, and He felt, when they went after other gods, that they were spiritually adulterous, that they were rejecting
01:52:52: His wonderful love for them. That's the same today.
01:53:02: There is a love that we have. There's a wonderful hymn of Horatius Bonner in which he sings about the love of God.
01:53:16: Not my love for you, he said, but your love for me.
01:53:22: That is so wonderful. That's what I fall back on again and again, my love for you so weak and faint, your love for me so great.
01:53:36: Oh, thank God that we are loved with an everlasting love and have been led by grace, that love to know.
01:53:44: May we know it more and more, and may we, through the ages of eternity, be overwhelmed at this almighty, omnipotent
01:53:57: God of grace. He loved me, and He gave Himself for me.
01:54:05: How wonderful that is. Amen. And what do you believe,
01:54:12: I don't know if we could say with absolute certainty about this, but the young rich ruler, he obviously rejected
01:54:26: Christ and walked away sad, but Jesus does say that he looked at him and loved him.
01:54:35: So what do you make of that? Do you think that that means that that man, even though it's not recorded in Scripture, eventually did repent and follow
01:54:43: Christ, or do you think that that was just a general common grace sort of love? Oh, I know what my longing is, that he was one of the 3 ,000 on the day of Pentecost who believed and was baptized and went on in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayers because there was a
01:55:06: Savior who loved him. I'm hoping, I can't, no one can give you a definite answer.
01:55:16: Is it just the general admiration that we all have for moral, kindly, self -sacrificing men, and we do admire them and wish there were many more of them.
01:55:34: Or was it then that infinitely, savingly enlarged so that grace met with him finally, maybe at Pentecost and later on?
01:55:53: Yeah, why not? Is that the only instance? I wish you see how to have a conversation with Jesus Christ like that.
01:56:00: The word doesn't return void, does it? Amen. Is that the only instance, at least that you're aware of, where someone who is lost and we have no record of their salvation is said to be loved by Jesus?
01:56:19: Is that the only instance in the Scripture? Well, I suppose it, yeah.
01:56:25: I love the longing and the weeping Savior over Jerusalem, how he would have saved them and they would not come to him.
01:56:38: Oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem. So there is such powerful tenderness and mercy, and within 40 days of that expression on the day of Pentecost, the
01:56:55: Spirit comes down upon them and thousands of them, houses of men, are saved.
01:57:02: So maybe there is also there grounds for hope.
01:57:10: And we know and we've heard of men who heard the
01:57:16: Gospel and many, many years later did confess that Jesus Christ was their
01:57:24: Lord and Savior. Amen. Well, regardless of where you land on the debate over common grace, if you are among our brethren in the
01:57:38: Protestant Reformed denomination, and I have friends that are not in that denomination that agree with them on that issue, we still, we are commanded to love people and do good for them even if we have no idea whether or not they are of the elect, because obviously the only way that we ever know that somebody is of the elect is when they come to saving faith and repentance in Christ.
01:58:05: And of course even then we don't even have an infallible knowledge of that, we just have sufficient knowledge of it.
01:58:12: Well, it's been a joy, Reverend Jeff Thomas, to have you on again.
01:58:20: It's a joy to hear your sweet voice and your kind words to me. Amen. And don't forget, folks, tomorrow
01:58:27: Reverend Jeff Thomas returns to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for his second interview this week.
01:58:33: And that's Tuesday, April 21st. He will be discussing the theme If Disaster Occurs in the
01:58:40: City, Will Not the Lord Have Done It? from Amos 3, verse 6.
01:58:46: I want to once again thank all of our listeners, especially those who took the time to write in today.
01:58:54: And I'm thrilled that I have now discovered a new listener, Zach, in Pocahontas, Arkansas, who has joined our audience.
01:59:02: And I hope that you keep listening and keep spreading the word about the program and keep writing in questions.
01:59:08: And I hope that you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater
01:59:16: Savior than you are a sinner. God bless. God bless you.