Part 2 - Mike Winger Responds / Cessationism / Speaking in Tongues

Hello, and thank you for listening to the testing the spirits podcast this will be part two. Responding to Mike winger and his comments on cessation ism. You can go back and listen to the first podcast where I played the clips and Kind of laid the foundation.

Mike winger has responded. And I want to talk about what he had to say now first of all I just want to make the point that cessation ism is not an extreme Position. Mike winger framed it in such a way.

He said Paula white with her you know speaking in tongues quote-unquote when it's really just gibberish. He said Paula white is a hyper charismatic, and he said what she was doing is fake. He said that's one extreme, and I agree with him, but he said the opposite extreme is Cessation ism.

Well Paula white's a false teacher and what she's doing arguably is is heresy so Logically speaking Mike winger if you're going to be consistent if cessation ism is the opposite extreme of Paula white then you would think Cessation ism must be heresy then I he didn't say that I Don't think he believes that I want to be as charitable as I can but still There's troubling troubling implications.

With the statement that cessation ism is an extreme position here's why cessation ism is not extreme and Obviously you know the definition if you're watching this video. Hopefully you know we're talking about Miracles you know healing the power to lay hands on someone and to heal them instantly.

The ability to give sight to the blind basically work the miracles of Jesus. You know raise the dead the apostles had that miraculous power. And they were receiving special revelation from God they wrote scripture.

And they could speak in tongues and some non apostles probably could speak in tongues as well. But cessation ism says the things you're reading about the miraculous Works that were going on in the Bible.

Acts chapter 2. The whole book of Acts really or at least the beginning we're saying that stuff has ceased there are no modern-day prophets and apostles. Tongues could happen okay. We believe miracles probably still occur.

It's rare, but God Answers prayer. God still may work miracles, but these gifts have not been given to men. So generally speaking nobody is speaking in tongues today, so that's the cessationist view. The stuff that was going on Miracles performed by Jesus and the Apostles no man can do that today.

That's the position Mike Winger says that's extreme. That's not extreme. You know what the opposite extreme of cessation ism or he says Paula White's one extreme. You know what the opposite extreme would be.

Saying that all the spiritual gifts have ceased or to say that God the Holy Spirit is not active at all. That would be the opposite extreme so Mike Winger Responded and he said a few things. I don't want to go over.

The same points that I made in the last video again if you didn't see the last video go and watch it. It'll make more sense out of this. I don't want to repeat myself, but Acts chapter 2 does give the clear definition that tongues is a knowable human language.

That's very clear if you read Acts 2 4 through 8. Here's what Mike Winger had to say because the main reason I did the video. I wanted to just not challenge him, but Challenge anyone just to get an answer because no one's ever answered this question should be pretty simple if tongues is happening today I told Mike Winger and this goes for any and all charismatics any and all Pentecostals if You're telling me that tongues is for today.

Just post one video just one link me to one video of somebody speaking in tongues. Think about it for a moment.

Every.

Pentecostal charismatic church out there. I mean 90 of them they record their services they live stream their services. Okay, if they're speaking in tongues as part of their faith if it's continuing if it's continued throughout the ages I mean there should be thousands of new examples each and every week.

So I just said link me to one video where someone is legitimately speaking in tongues. No one has been able to do that. Here's what Mike Winger said. He said I do not have a video for you that would prove tongues.

He says I have never tried to find one. Well but if tongues are commonplace if the charismatics are correct if people like Mike Winger who is a Continuationist saying that gifts have continued. If he's right, it shouldn't be a matter of finding one.

They should just be.

Everywhere.

But no one has Linked a video so no one can actually show me the real gift I think and I'd be happy to be proven wrong. But I think the reason why no one has posted a video is because it would look something like this.

Okay, so what is that that is? Gibberish, but I've looked at probably dozens of videos online of people claiming to speak in tongues people. All the way from Kenneth Copeland to Benny Hinn to Paula White all the way down to just some random Pentecostal guy, you know locally or whatever like all these people Across the spectrum all claiming to speak in tongues every single video.

I watched it's all the same thing. It's just gibberish. So here's what I don't understand Mike Winger can answer this. I hope he does or you can answer it if what Paula White was doing was fake. Yeah, it's gibberish.

Mike Winger says oh that's just fake. I Agree, but if what she was doing if that's fake. How is this other stuff real or Mike Winger? Commented to Ruslan in his interview Mike Winger admitted that he spoke.

He has spoken in tongues and he said he did it without interpretation. That means no one could understand them. Well, if no one can understand what you're saying, then The term would be gibberish. It's unintelligible speech.

How is one form Paula White? How is her unintelligible speech fake but yours is real if it's all unintelligible. How is how is any of it real? This is what I? Legitimately do not understand so I'd be happy if somebody could explain it to me.

No one has been able to do that. But if you can link in the comment section or Mike Winger make a video and put the clip in your video. Show me what the real gift of tongues. Looks like I mean, that's really all I'm asking.

Mike Winger said a few other things. I.

Called.

Well, I said the way I characterized it I said that you know, he's saying that we're extremists or we hold to an extremist position and he's like well I didn't say extremist. I said extreme. He said that's right.

You're misquoting me like okay. Well, but and I knew this ahead of time. But I looked it up just to make sure I looked in the dictionary and an extremist is Someone who holds to an extreme viewpoint and then Mike Winger reiterated that Cessation ism is an extreme viewpoint.

So if I hold to an extreme viewpoint, that would make me You know textbook definition. It would make me an extremist. So I thought he was sort of splitting hairs there and muddying the water, but whatever the again the bigger point is Cessation ism is not the extreme position Cessation ism I would argue is the historic Protestant viewpoint it's certainly the historic viewpoint among all reformed teachers that I know and Pretty much every Baptist pastor that I know is they all hold to this position now the new wave the new generation of Baptists like The Rick Warren type Baptist.

Yeah, I mean, that's another story. I mean Rick Warren claims to hear God's voice I mean anytime a pastor claims to hear the voice of God. I just I stop listening. Sorry, you know if you're gonna make a claim like that you say well, he doesn't literally mean that.

Well, I don't know.

I think they do.

But a lot of these TV preachers a lot of people that Rick Warren and others Benny Hinn and these people the folks they associate with No, they really do claim to hear the voice of God to receive visions and revelations.

And here's the thing if you're actually hearing from God, I Mean that is part of the Continuationist viewpoint. I mean if God is speaking to you if you hear God's voice if that's really God saying whatever it is.

Do you think he's saying you should be able to add that to the Bible? I mean if you're gonna be a logical and consistent about it. Thankfully, no one's trying that at the moment. But this is where the cessationist view I think is necessary.

Because it's the only viewpoint That if you say you believe in soulless scripture that the Bible alone is your authority the only way you can say that and be logically consistent is if you're a cessationist because if you say that God continues to speak today and God's giving new prophecies or I Don't think Mike winger would use the term revelation.

Some other people would but he's a more moderate charismatic. I'll give him credit. Okay. But some of these other people would say that God continues to speak. Well, you should add that if it's really God's Word, you should add it to the Bible so the cessationist view and again just to give a definition cessationism is the idea that the Miraculous gifts given to the Apostles of Christ and some other people that those gifts have ceased.

So the ability to lay hands on someone and to heal them or to raise the dead or give sight to the blind. No, man has that power today. The ability to speak in languages that you don't know because Acts chapter 2 4 through 8 defines tongues as knowable human languages.

No one can just do that today. It's just not happening. Could it happen the rare exception on the mission field? Maybe but it's not happening down to your local charismatic Church. Because that gift has ceased if I'm wrong show me the true gift again.

Also.

Cessationists say that God is no longer speaking today except that he speaks through his Word. God does speak through his Word if you want to hear the voice of God. Read the Bible. If you want to hear the voice of God audibly, you know, read the Bible out loud, but God is not Continuing to give new visions and revelations.

Today if he did and it's truly the Word of God again, you should add it to the Bible. So again, if you believe in sola scriptura, which I would say to be a sound Bible teacher You have to hold to that position.

That's that's my view. If you want to disagree. Maybe Mike winger disagrees. But if you're gonna be a sound Bible teacher, you need to hold the sola scriptura. The only way to really do that consistently is to be a cessationist.

The.

Continuationists who say that tongues is happening all over the place that and. You know the other thing Mike winger commented. He said that my Summary of his position on Bethel Church was a dismal. A dismal summary.

Well, it wasn't a summary. I said that hey Mike winger said this about Bethel Church. Well, he did say it. Okay. Now Mike winger in fairness has been critical of Bethel Church. I never said he is some huge fan and he's never said a bad word about him.

I never said that but like winger did say that he thought according to him a real prophecy and real healing. That is the miraculous sign gifts of the Spirit. He said he believes real prophecy and healing is coming out of Bethel Church.

Just to prove that because again, he this was one of the things he disputed. I just want you to hear it from him. So listen.

And I actually think Bill Johnson is is saved. I don't know whether he's saved or not. I mean in the sense that I don't know, you know conclusively about a lot of things. But I do think he's saved and I think Chris Vallotton the the prophet of Bethel I think he's also probably saved.

I could be wrong here. And I think even real prophecy and real healing are coming out of this group. Bethel's not a not as churchful of demons. I think they're churchful of people that are sincere who have some things off and.

And.

We don't want to copy those things if nothing else, but we still want to. I was still fellowship with them I would still call them my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Absolutely. Okay. So Mike winger did say that I Admit he has been Harder on Bethel lately. Okay, since there was a whole thing a year or two ago about his views on Bethel since then He's been much harder on them.

So good on him for that. But again Bethel and it's not just the hyper charismatics like Paul the white and Bethel who speak in gibberish and Call it tongues the moderate charismatic the non hyper cares.

They're doing the same thing. What literally what's the difference? So I'm just gonna leave it at that. That was my original Challenge to Mike winger. I appreciate the fact that he responded and honestly Part of me.

I'm being sincere. I want him to be right. I really do I Want in my spirit in my soul, okay I want the charismatic position to be right the idea that the the miraculous gifts of the Spirit are still Operational today that would be exciting.

That would be amazing. I want that to be true the idea that God could give a man the ability to heal and to Cure blindness and and to do I want that to be true. I just don't think it is Okay, but I want it to be true.

How amazing would that be? And this is this will be the last thing I say I promise but If the miraculous gifts of the Spirit are truly for today, then why doesn't someone go to the cancer ward, you know?

The the cancer ward of the Children's Hospital and just clear it out and heal all of the kids like If the stuff that was happening in the book of Acts is still happening today Why don't you see it? And that's that's all I'm saying and if I'm wrong and I really want to be wrong But just show me you say well, it's not about experience.

You need to base your positions on the Bible not experience right and based on the Bible I'm convinced these things have ceased but again, I want to be wrong. Please show me if I'm wrong. Just show me the video of the person, you know Raising the dead or giving sight to the blind or speaking in the legit gift of tongues to this day I've been asking for years and I did the challenge to Mike winger I've been asking people this for years.

Not one person has ever been able to do it. I think the reason is because these things have ceased but Prove me wrong. Alright, that's all thanks for watching. And until next time may the Lord be with you.

Have a great day.