June 9, 2017 Show with Aaron Dunlop on “FAME: Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor”

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June 10, 2017

Aaron Dunlop, a native of Northern Ireland, graduate of Geneva Reformed Seminary, SC, author, & founder of ThinkGospel.com who will discuss: “FAME: Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor” (& announcing The Foundations Conference 2017 in New York City!!)

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04:08: But today we have returning to the program Aaron Dunlop, who is a native of Northern Ireland, a graduate of Geneva Reform Seminary in South Carolina.
04:19: He's an author and he's the founder of thinkgospel .com. Today we are discussing a ministry that he is involved in that his father is also intricately involved in, and that is
04:32: FAME, F -A -M -E, which stands for Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor.
04:39: We're also going to be talking a bit about or promoting the Foundations Conference in New York City, an event where Aaron's father,
04:47: Alan, will be speaking, among other speakers. But if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarenson at gmail .com.
04:56: If you have a question for Aaron Dunlop on FAME, Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor, that's chrisarenson at gmail .com.
05:06: But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Aaron Dunlop. Thank you,
05:13: Chris. It's good to be back with you. And tell us something before we go into FAME.
05:19: For those of our listeners who have not yet heard you, they did not catch our last interview with you, tell our listeners about thinkgospel .com.
05:28: Thinkgospel .com began while I was pastoring in Victoria in British Columbia.
05:34: It initially started as a simple gospel presentation, a website that our congregation could go to to direct others, unsaved people, to that they would get a simple gospel presentation without all the churchy jargon that we so often fill our evangelism with, and the church misses out.
05:59: It developed then into a daily devotional, which we keep up to date, and also a blog.
06:08: And yeah, in fact, the last time you were on, it was good to hear that people were discovering and enjoying that blog.
06:16: And now that you are working with your father,
06:22: Alan, with FAME, Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor, please let our listeners know a bit about how this ministry came into being.
06:33: Right, well, I was born, as you said, in Northern Ireland, and my father was, when
06:40: I was a young child, was in the training for the ministry, and he was a minister in Northern Ireland for a number of years.
06:47: But in 1990, he went to Africa, Cameroon, to visit missionaries from our church there in Northern Ireland, and he got smitten, for want of a better term, with the need of the
07:03: African church, the people in Africa, whom we call our brothers and sisters in Christ.
07:09: And we had also missionaries in Kenya, so he had visited Kenya also. So he got a heart for missions in Africa, and he traveled back and forward from 1990, and up until 1996, then he began this mission,
07:25: Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor. And at that time, it was simply to help the local people in a particular area,
07:33: Kitambula, to help them in the farming, in medical training, and so forth, and so he went out in 1996, and he began to develop what we have now there in Kitambula.
07:49: And... Go ahead, I'm sorry I interrupted you. Sorry. I might say also that in 1996,
07:56: I myself, I had been there in 95 with him in that area before the mission started, but in 1996,
08:04: I went to Bible College, and then I came across to North America to study further for the ministry.
08:12: And so all of this time, 20 years, I have sort of been disconnected from his work in Africa, and it's only in the past couple of years that I've been back in Africa, seen the work, and gotten myself involved with the work.
08:29: Now, if you could tell us something about the specific area of Africa that Fame is doing their outreach, and I believe it is primarily to children, but if you can give us something about the culture, the religion, and just some more detail about that specific area, because I know that Africa is not a monolith, it's a very large continent with a variety of different cultures and religions and so forth, involving many countries.
09:02: So if you could tell us about the specific area that Fame is working in.
09:09: Right. The area that we work in is in northeastern
09:15: Kenya, about three and a half hours northeast of Nairobi.
09:21: It's a very rural area, and it has been influenced by Christianity, and when
09:26: I use the word Christianity, I mean broad Christendom. Catholicism has been heavily influential in that area, and evangelicalism also.
09:38: There's still a lot of superstition, witchcraft, and false religion is also making an inroads into the area.
09:48: It's a very arid region of Kenya. The people among whom we work are very hardworking people, but they're working against the elements.
09:58: They're working against the cursed earth more so than we do here in North America.
10:06: So there's a massive, massive opportunity to work among these people.
10:13: And you know, my new friend, Pastor Sam Oluwach, you kept mispronouncing his name when he was on the program recently.
10:25: He is a pastor in Kenya, and he expressed a lot of interest in meeting with you and discussing further how perhaps fame in his church can cooperate.
10:39: Yes, I heard that interview, part of that interview you did with the Kenyan pastor, and I was thrilled to hear that the
10:48: Reformed Theology is making an inroads and is developing in that part.
10:57: He's, I believe, over in western Kenya, so it's quite a ways away. But there's also a church that he works with in Nairobi, so I was thrilled to hear that interview and to see that the
11:07: Lord is doing the work and that the Reformation is making inroads into Kenya.
11:15: Yeah, he is the pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Kisumu, or Kisumu.
11:25: And in fact, I will make sure that you get the website and all that.
11:32: In fact, I have it right here. It's, and this is for our listeners as well, Grace Baptist Church, Kisumu, K -I -S -U -M -U, that's
11:42: K -I -S as in Sam, M as in Michael, K -I -S -U -M -U .blogspot
11:49: .com, so it's Grace Baptist Church, K -I -S -U -M -U .blogspot .com, and Pastor Sam Oluwach is the senior pastor there.
12:00: But you have three main avenues which you are helping those in need in that area of Kenya.
12:13: You provide medical aid, child rescue, and evangelistic outreach. How specifically is
12:20: FAME, we'll go through all of those, how is FAME providing medical aid? The medical aid is specifically through our clinic in the village where we began our compound 20 years ago.
12:36: We have a clinic there, and that clinic services a broad swath of the area around Mwingi, which is
12:47: Indian town. We also have a remote clinic in Manu, which is about 30 minutes away, and it's self -sufficient.
12:57: So the basis of our work is through clinics, which gives us an opening then into evangelism in the area, and it is through the ministry of the clinics and child rescue that we have won the hearts of the people, and we have gotten their ears, and they hear the gospel, and they are receptive to us and the gospel because we go in with this model of setting up a clinic, and with the clinic in Manu, and with the clinic at the main headquarters there, we have chaplains involved, and nurses, and ministry alongside the clinic work.
13:44: And when you have child rescue endeavors there, specifically, what does that mean?
13:54: The child rescue, we could say, is divided into two parts. First of all, the primary aspect of it would be the orphanage.
14:04: We have over 170 children in our orphanage there in Kethamilla where we feed them.
14:13: They're educated in a local school, which we have helped develop the local schools, and they get catechized and learn the gospel at the center.
14:24: And then we have, just a couple of years ago, we developed a baby unit, and the baby unit is to rescue abandoned infants from the street, or from mothers who don't want their children, or have died in childbirth, or they're incapable of caring for them because of alcohol abuse, or drug abuse, or whatever.
14:48: So the child rescue is developed in those two main areas, the baby rescue and the orphanage.
14:53: Now is that something that is rampant? Are there a lot of children just being left in the street, even infants?
15:02: Oh yeah, yeah. It's a massive area of need in Kenya, and our center cannot do the half of what we could do because we're limited by size and finances, but it is a major area of need in Kenya.
15:21: Wow. Now I know you can't be a mind reader in this regard, but have you been able to get some kind of a consensus on the average mother who is leaving their child in the street somewhere just to fend for itself or to die?
15:44: From what you can grasp, are these women confident that someone is going to rescue these children, like a person who might leave a child on the doorstep of a church or a hospital or something, or are they just leaving there assuming that they're going to be killed, or just perish from exposure or something?
16:12: Yeah, I would say both. Many mothers who have been incapable of caring for their children will try to get somebody else to care for them who is equally incapable, and many times there's aunts or uncles and so forth have tried to, but it's just multiple different scenarios.
16:40: For instance, children with disability, their parents are incapable of caring for them, mother perhaps has got
16:47: AIDS and can't care for the children, or is on the streets with alcoholism or drug abuse, so there's multiple scenarios from which the children are rescued.
17:05: And you know, there are also children on the street in the towns there who are addicted to alcohol and drugs, just little street kids running around with nothing, with nobody to care for them.
17:21: What kind of drug abuse is prevalent over there in that area? Well, anything that I have seen is mostly sniffing glue, which was back in my childhood was a big thing.
17:38: It has developed into a major drug abuse industry here in North America with multiple types of drugs, but there's local drugs that they grow and alcohol that they make, so they get their high in different ways, you know.
18:00: And one of the things that you do is evangelistic outreach.
18:08: We all appreciate those organizations that reach out to the impoverished with food, water, clothing, and shelter, but it's not really a
18:21: Christian endeavor unless there's an evangelical outreach or evangelistic outreach. How specifically are you doing this?
18:30: Well, our outreach is quite extensive in the area.
18:37: The staff at our main headquarters is about 31 people on the staff on the payroll.
18:47: In addition to that, we have three or four casual pastors who come in on a part -time basis, and we have three pastors full time.
18:59: The pastoral staff who are employed at our center are engaged in a number of different aspects of the work.
19:06: We have a chaplain who looks after the general spiritual health of the center and the children.
19:14: We have a pastor who is employed with our Bible school. We have a part -time
19:21: Bible school to train pastors. We have a catechist, and the catechist also does evangelistic work one day a week.
19:30: He'll go out with our missionary on the field, Rodney Davidson, and they'll go into a remote area.
19:36: We'll take a motorbike and go into an area where you can't get by vehicle, by auto vehicle, or it's too far to walk, and they'll evangelize in the remote villages.
19:49: The catechist also looks after 36 churches and the Sunday schools of those churches.
19:54: He teaches the children, catechizes them, makes sure that the curriculum and the teaching of the gospel to the children is ongoing and is biblical.
20:11: So as far as the spiritual and evangelistic work of the center, beyond the center itself, it's quite extensive.
20:20: Now, what is the theological perspective of those ministers in charge of the preaching, teaching, and training up the local folks in the gospel?
20:34: Where are they coming from theologically? Well, they're trained locally.
20:39: One man in particular has been trained outside of Kenya. He studied with me 20 years ago.
20:45: A good man, Titus Nzuka, reformed. We're a reformed minister, but most of them have been trained locally in local
20:57: Bible colleges, and that's an area that we are developing. We have a small part -time
21:03: Bible college, and we're training them, and that's why that's what I've got involved with in the past couple of years going out for a week of Bible teaching to teach the pastors, and that's an area that we need to develop and we are developing.
21:20: Well, we have two questions for you from Jenny in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania, and what
21:29: I'm going to do is I'm going to read these questions to you, and I'm also going to email you her questions so you have them right in front of you, and then you can answer them when we come back from the first break.
21:41: Okay. Okay. The first question that Jenny from Ben Salem, Pennsylvania, asks is, how would you briefly describe the kingdom of God in conjunction with the gospel for non -believers?
21:54: And our second question is, your missionary work in East Kenya through fame must face daily challenges, though I am sure that you reap great rewards in heaven for all that you and your fellow laborers do in carrying out
22:06: Christ's commandments. What are the toughest challenges you face in that part of Africa, and is there any guerrilla warfare in the region that the mission faces?
22:17: And I'll email this to you. If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
22:28: That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
22:40: USA. So don't go away. We are going to be right back after these messages, God willing, with Aaron Dunlop and more of our discussion on fame.
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29:22: This is Chris Arnsen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today for the full two hours is
29:28: Aaron Dunlop, a native of Northern Ireland, a graduate of Geneva Reform Seminary in South Carolina, an author and founder of ThinkGospel .com.
29:42: We are discussing an organization founded by his father, Alan Dunlop, FAME, Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor.
29:51: And Aaron's father, Alan, is also going to be speaking at the Foundations Conference in New York City this
29:58: June 22nd through the 23rd. And I will be giving you more details on how you can register for that conference as well.
30:05: I intend to be there, God willing. And if you'd like to join us on the air with your own question for Aaron Dunlop, our email address is
30:15: ChrisArnsen at gmail .com. ChrisArnsen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
30:26: USA. And before we went to the break, we had a listener in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania, Jenny.
30:35: And she wrote in a couple of questions. She said, let's first of all go to her question, how would you briefly describe the kingdom of God in conjunction with the gospel for non -believers?
30:51: Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Jenny, for the question. It's a massive question, so I'd like to read it briefly.
31:00: The kingdom of God, when
31:07: I think of the kingdom of God in relation to unbelievers, I think of it in two categories.
31:13: God is sovereign over all his creation. That's the most fundamental sense of the word kingdom in the scriptures.
31:21: Lucifer, of course, rebelled against God and established his own kingdom, according to Matthew 12, in verse 25 and following.
31:30: And so there are these two kingdoms, the battle of the ages ongoing. So in evangelism, unless we inform the minds of those whom we are evangelizing of this kingdom of Satan, which they're in, by the way, there is no point in presenting them with the kingdom of God's sovereign grace in Christ.
31:56: It's the distinction between Mount Sinai, the law, and Mount Calvary, the grace that is presented in the gospel.
32:05: And so your question, how would I briefly describe the kingdom of God in conjunction with the gospel for non -believers?
32:13: I present them, first of all, with the need, with the sin, the bad news, if you like, before we present them with the good news.
32:21: In fact, just last week at our center in Kittimula, the missionary there, Rodney Davidson, did a children's day evangelistic outreach, and we had at the center 1 ,400 children throughout the day.
32:38: They divided them up into four parts, I believe it was. And they taught them in the morning on the subject of Sinai and the law, which condemns them.
32:48: And in the evening, throughout the day, then towards the evening, they taught them concerning Calvary and the grace of Christ and God in the gospel.
32:57: So I hope that answers your question with regard to the kingdom of God. And her second couple of questions are, she says, your missionary work in East Kenya through fame must face daily challenges, though I am sure that you reap great rewards in heaven for all that you and your fellow laborers do in carrying out
33:17: Christ's commands. What are the toughest challenges you face in that part of Africa?
33:26: Well, that's a hard question because it depends on which part of the work you're thinking at a particular time.
33:34: If I'm thinking of pastors, the toughest part from my perspective is the fact that most pastors are uneducated in the gospel.
33:46: Most of them don't have a library. They don't have resources for preaching. And some pastors, all the resource they have is the notes in a study
33:57: Bible. So that is a major area of difficulty when we're dealing with pastors.
34:03: Of course, at the present time, the greatest problem is the drought. There has been an ongoing drought in that part of Kenya and further north into Somalia, in the
34:15: Horn of Africa, where thousands of people have already died. I was there four weeks ago and the short rains had not come.
34:26: And just the day before I left, it rained. And the drought had been so bad and the lack of rain so persistent that the rain that actually did come when the animals were hit by the rain, many of them died because they had gotten no food and they were weak already.
34:47: And then the change of climate and the rain killed many of the animals. Really? That's right, yeah.
34:55: Just the day before I left. I didn't even know that that was a phenomenon, that rain would kill animals.
35:01: Unless, of course, it was some kind of a flood involved or some kind of a real serious storm with debris and trees and so on collapsing.
35:13: But just the rain itself was killing the animals. Yeah, because they were already weakened, of course, by the...
35:20: it wasn't the rain itself alone. They were weakened by the famine and they were emaciated by lack of food.
35:28: And so the change of climate and the rain just did the last job on killing some of the animals.
35:40: And that was on the news and newspapers and so forth just the day before I left.
35:46: So the drought at the minute is a major, major problem.
35:51: And we have at the mission station there implemented famine relief.
35:58: So we have at the minute our mission leader, Rodney Davidson, goes out into a village and they'll preach the gospel.
36:08: They'll choose 150 families, the worst cases, and they'll feed those families for a number of months until the next rains come, which are in November.
36:22: So we have a famine relief program already in place. A month or so ago, we put an appeal out in Northern Ireland and in America here,
36:32: North America, to try and raise funds for that relief. And we're limited, of course, by funds, so we have to choose the worst cases.
36:40: And towards the end of that appeal in October, November time, we will, with the famine relief, the food, the rice and the beans, we will also give them good seed to sow so that when the next rains come, they'll have something to sow for their harvest.
37:00: So that would be a major hardship for the mission at the present time. And Jenny from Ben Salem, Pennsylvania's third question is, is there any guerrilla warfare in the region that the mission faces?
37:16: Yes. I'm not sure if you remember a year ago or maybe more than a year ago at Garissa University, which is about an hour north of our center, there was a shooting and there was a number of students killed.
37:32: The problem in the area north of us, and it's not so much in our area, but not far from our area, is a number of Somali warriors, troublemakers, cattle rustlers come down and cause problems.
37:50: Of course, ISIS is involved further north in the Somali area. But while I was there at the end of April during the
37:58: Bible teaching week, one of the pastors got the very sad news that his nephew had been killed.
38:07: And the family, this gentleman called Samson, his nephew was killed.
38:13: The family had invested quite a bit of money in this young man's education, the uncles and the father, and he was out herding his cattle.
38:23: And the Somali cattle rustlers come down and slice his throat and took the cattle.
38:29: So that goes on, that's ongoing. Cases like that are ongoing. Well, thank you,
38:37: Jenny and Ben Salem, Pennsylvania. Keep listening to Iron, Sharp, and Ziron and spreading the word about the program in Pennsylvania and beyond.
38:44: Well, since we were mentioning the drought and how a rain and change of weather actually killed many of the animals, tell us about the water tank project that FAME is involved in.
38:59: Well, at the center itself, we have three concrete tanks, and those tanks will hold 1 .1
39:09: million liters of water. We use that water at our center for drinking and for food preparation.
39:19: If there was a sustained drought, that water would last us for about a year. So we're thankful that that was implemented.
39:27: We harvest off a 4 ,000 square meter area of our roofs.
39:34: We harvest that water ourselves off the roof catchment, and it's all drained, gravity fed into our three main concrete tanks.
39:43: In addition to that, we have a borehole, and we have built a tank.
39:51: The tank is being replaced this year, the end of July, beginning of August. We have a team going out from North America and from Northern Ireland.
40:00: The tank is actually being replaced at the present time, and the team will go out and replace the pipe from the borehole to the tank.
40:08: That tank services a number of schools in the area. It also services our center for different purposes, and it services a number of villages.
40:19: Just last year, we took a pipe from the borehole to another village, which was about six kilometers away.
40:26: The pictures on our Facebook page at that time of people with fresh, clean water that they had never seen before, never seen clean water like this before, was phenomenal.
40:41: Normally, when I was there a month ago, I went to another area where we would like to find an opportunity to further extend our remote clinic ministry, but we went to the area where this community gets its water.
41:01: There's a large, large area of a natural dam where, in the rainy season, the water would be dammed up.
41:08: It was dry, and the community, in that case, then dig what we call a shallow well.
41:15: They dig a hole in the ground, and they go down as deep as they need to before they find water, and they're bringing out brown, dirty water.
41:23: They're carrying that on donkeys for an hour home to feed their family with, and that's what they live on.
41:29: Much of their day is taken up by collecting this water from the shallow wells.
41:37: So, that is a part of our ministry, then, with regard to the borehole. But a problem we have with the borehole is, and it's being tested in August, is the borehole sufficient to feed a number of villages?
41:53: We have another village that's looking for water from that borehole. We need to find out from the experts whether the water has gone down in the borehole, and can we sustain another village from that same borehole, or will we have to bore another hole for water?
42:13: We have another listener, Linda in Hilltop Lake, Texas. She, I have to enlarge her email because the font is very small, and Linda in Hilltop Lake, Texas says, please ask
42:32: Brother Dunlop what the denominational situation is in Kenya, whether Anglican, Reformed, or Pentecostal, or other.
42:41: God bless fame for spreading the gospel of Christ in that part of the world, and may he bless
42:47: Iron Sharpens Iron for illuminating the Christian world about this ministry. That's Linda from Hilltop Lake, Texas.
42:55: Yes, thank you, Linda. The denominational situation there, we work with a couple of conservative
43:04: Baptist denominations, and a Presbyterian, conservative Presbyterian denomination, which has missionaries from here in North America.
43:15: There's a large Pentecostal influence, and much of our teaching is countering the
43:22: Pentecostal charismatic influence in Kenya, and it's a great need because it is a very attractive part of the church, and it's interesting, actually, that just a few months ago, the main
43:43: Pentecostal church in Kenya made the announcement that their pastors need to go and get taught, because they realize that their pastors are untaught, there's a void in their teaching, and their knowledge base, which is significant and interesting to me, because I think
44:04: Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement is going to find that more and more, that in the quest for the extra spiritual gifts, there's a void in their theology, so the
44:19: Pentecostal church in Kenya is recognizing this. They send their pastors then to go and get more training, and many of those pastors are coming to us in our area because we have a small
44:28: Bible college, so the opportunity for Bible teaching is vast.
44:35: The doors are wide open to teach these people. They want to be taught. They're eager to be taught.
44:40: They're begging for solid biblical teaching, and while I was there teaching that week at the end of April, the beginning of May, one old man, 75 years old, he got up, and he thanked me for teaching.
44:55: He said, we just want to learn the scriptures, and his Bible was so warm that little pages on it were illegible.
45:04: Wow. Now, what religious background was he from, or denominational background? I think he was
45:09: Baptist. Most of those men would have been from a Baptist background, but their teaching, many of them have never finished grade 12, and their teaching, so they have a zeal.
45:23: You know, the fact is, Chris, that the church in Africa and Asia is growing faster today than it is in the
45:30: West, but it is not growing as far as Bible teaching is concerned proportionately, so there are many, many more believers, and there are less and less resources in the teaching of the pastors, and experts reckon that eight out of ten pastors have insufficient finances, few resources, and insufficient training, so it's an area of the
46:01: Church of Christ globally that I think our church in North America needs to consider as the church grows in Asia and Africa.
46:12: Well, thank you so much, Linda, from Hilltop Lakes, Texas, for your excellent question.
46:18: Keep spreading the word about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in Texas and beyond, and we have a
46:26: Christian in Suffolk County, New York, who says, what are you willing to overlook or compromise on, if anything, in regard to working with other churches and religions in regard to meeting the physical needs of those in the area in Kenya where you are working?
46:49: I understand that we can never compromise on the gospel of Jesus Christ or primary issues in the scriptures, but when you're faced in a situation like that, especially regarding physical needs, when life and death are at stake, are you willing to bend at all on theology and working hand -in -hand with those outside of your specific theological circles?
47:15: Well, we are a non -denominational mission in Kenya, and that has actually been one of our greatest strengths, because we don't depend on any one denomination.
47:31: So when we go into an area to evangelize, sorry, when we go into an area to give medical aid or any other humanitarian aid, we don't ask them what religion they are.
47:43: That's not a question we ask. We give them the help they need, and we preach the gospel to them, and the pastors that are employed as our chaplain, as our catechist, as our evangelist, these men are reformed men, and they're going out from our mission with reformed teaching, and they're getting good reformed teaching at our center and through our mission.
48:09: I think that Christian was not asking about the recipients, because I'm sure you would help a Muslim or an atheist with physical needs.
48:17: I think he was referring to those whom are helping you in providing the physical needs.
48:24: Where would you draw the line in linking arms with an individual or a church or a religion or a group of people?
48:35: How sharp and clear are the lines, or how soft are they? Well, you know, we're evangelical reformed, so we hold to the fundamentals of the faith, so that's our bottom line.
48:55: Now, as far as compromise on secondary issues, we have never, to my knowledge, faced those issues on the mission field, but our goal is to...we're
49:09: not tied to any particular church, so we're our own mission.
49:15: We make our own decisions as far as that's concerned, so to my knowledge, we've never come into a situation where we've had to or been asked to compromise the gospel.
49:25: Of course, we wouldn't do it, so we're not dependent on other people. There's no coercion to do that.
49:33: Right, right. Well, of course you would never compromise what you're believing or teaching, but like, for instance, if, let's say, a
49:41: Word of Faith Pentecostal group or even a liberal group says, we want to help you dig a well or we want to help you build a medical center or something like that, where they're involved in physical aid to you, would you accept that kind of aid from anyone, regardless of what they believe?
50:04: I'm not talking about the recipients. Okay, yeah. No, I'm not sure. At the minute, we're getting our support from North America.
50:12: The scenario, in that case, from Africa is most unlikely to occur. We're getting a support from North America.
50:21: There's very little, if any, support comes out of Africa itself, so that we would have to discuss on an individual basis.
50:29: You know, it has never happened. It's unlikely to happen, and I would not venture to make a prognosis on that without, you know, without it having happened, and it's unlikely to happen, you know.
50:43: But we're Reformed Evangelical Witnesses, and that's where we stand. Amen. You know, it's like saying, you know, we're
50:52: Reformed, we state who we are. The likelihood of a Pentecostal or a charismatic or a
50:58: Romanist individual coming to want our help or to associate with us is unlikely, because we've already raised our flag and fly our banner.
51:09: So, you know, I hope that answers the question. Yes. It's the same in North America, just as it would be in Africa.
51:18: You raise your flag, you raise your banner, and because your banner's up, it's already going to scare those away who differ with you.
51:27: Well, we're going to our midway break right now. If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Aaron Dunlop regarding fame, the missionary work in Africa, in Kenya to be specific, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
51:46: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the
51:54: USA, and you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable, if it's about a personal and private matter.
52:01: But otherwise, please at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away.
52:07: God willing, we'll be right back with Aaron Dunlop and more of our discussion on fame. Tired of box store
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01:02:36: We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come. Welcome back.
01:02:49: This is Chris Orens, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with one hour to go is
01:02:57: Aaron Dunlop. We are talking about FAME, which stands for Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor, which is an organization founded by our guest's father,
01:03:09: Alan Dunlop. And if you would like to join us on the air with a question for Aaron about FAME, which he also is a member of the board along with his father, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:03:29: chrisarnson at gmail .com. And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
01:03:39: USA. But before we return to our discussion, I'd like to make a few announcements.
01:03:47: First of all, we urgently need your sponsorship here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:03:54: In fact, this is something that my current advertisers have urged me to make known publicly.
01:04:04: They want me to make these public appeals. I have gone many years without making a single mention on the air of a need for donations and new advertisers.
01:04:16: But we have reached a crossroads at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and if we want to remain on the air, we need your help, not only through your donations, but if you know of a pastor, a leader in a parachurch organization, or someone who is a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a chiropractor, somebody who is a business owner, a corporation owner, or somebody who is having a special event, or maybe you are one or some of these things, please email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:04:52: chrisarnson at gmail .com, and let me know in the subject line that you would like to advertise.
01:05:00: And if you would like to donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we always can use, we always need your support.
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01:05:27: Some of you, multiple times, some of you have made Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a part of your regular monthly giving, and we've been so excited to see that.
01:05:36: Obviously, as I've said before, I never want anyone to siphon money out of the regular giving that they are providing for their church.
01:05:47: That is a command of God that you provide for your church. It is also a command of God that you provide for your own home.
01:05:54: If you're struggling seriously financially and finding it hard to put food on the table, obviously we don't want to have you siphon money out of your family's budget if you are that far into the red and having difficulty financially.
01:06:12: But if God has blessed you above and beyond your ability to give to your church as always and provide for your family, we'd love to receive a donation from you or become a part of your regular giving.
01:06:25: If indeed you love this program and it is a part of your regular habit and it is blessing you, go to ironsharpensironradio .com
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01:06:41: There will be an address there where you will be able to send a check for any amount made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:06:50: And also you can make your checks made payable to Cruciform Media, but it's just easier to remember
01:06:57: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So thank you again for that. And also there are some events that I want you to be aware of.
01:07:05: I've been mentioning in today's broadcast that our guest today, Aaron Dunlop, is the son of Alan Dunlop, who is the founder of FAME, the ministry in Africa we are discussing.
01:07:19: Well, Alan Dunlop is going to be on the roster for a conference coming up very soon in New York City where I intend to be,
01:07:29: God willing, and that is the Foundations Conference. And the website to register for this conference is thefoundationsconference .com,
01:07:38: thefoundationsconference .com, June 22nd through the 23rd in the
01:07:44: Chelsea area of Manhattan. And the other speakers include
01:07:50: Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Dr. Joel Beeky, Phil Johnson, Todd Friel, Armin Tamasian, who we had on the program yesterday, and others.
01:08:01: So if you'd like to register again, as I mentioned, go to thefoundationsconference .com,
01:08:10: thefoundationsconference .com, and please mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:08:17: And also this August, the Fellowship Conference New England is going to be held from the 3rd through the 5th of August, and that is in Portland, Maine, including speakers such as Pastor Don Curran of not only
01:08:36: Don Curran Ministries, but HeartCry Missionary Society, the organization founded by Paul Washer.
01:08:44: My friend Pastor Mac Tomlinson, who's an author, and he's also the pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.
01:08:52: Pastor Jesse Barrington, who has been a guest on our program. He is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas, a sister church of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida, which runs
01:09:06: Grace Life Radio, which airs Iron Sharpens Iron Radio every day, the day after the live broadcast.
01:09:12: They air our pre -recorded program. And Pastor Nate Pickowitz, who is the pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmonton Ironworks, New Hampshire.
01:09:23: He is also the author of Reviving New England, a book we are going to be discussing,
01:09:29: God willing, with Pastor Nate Pickowitz on a broadcast coming up fairly soon here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in just a couple of weeks.
01:09:39: If you'd like to join me at the Fellowship Conference New England, please go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,
01:09:49: fellowshipconferencenewengland .com. And here's a new event that I just found out about through one of my faithful listeners in Indianapolis, Indiana, Erin, who you've heard her submit questions to our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:10:05: Well, I may be at this event. I'm not 100 % sure because I just found out about it today, but I'm going to try to see if I can set up an exhibitor's booth there at the
01:10:15: Reforming Families Conference in Petersburg, Kentucky. And this is going to be held
01:10:21: September 28th through the 30th at the Creation Museum. And they've got an exciting lineup of speakers, including
01:10:31: Dr. Joel Beeky, who's been a guest on this program many times.
01:10:37: Ken Ham, who's been a guest on this program. Todd Freel, who's also been a guest on this program.
01:10:43: Todd Freel, the host of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio. David Murray, another person who's been a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:10:52: He is a professor at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And Armin Tamasian, who
01:11:00: I just interviewed yesterday, a pastor of the Calgary Free Presbyterian Church in Calgary, British Columbia.
01:11:08: And if you would like to attend this conference, go to reformingfamilies .org,
01:11:15: reformingfamilies .org, and you can register. And please let them know you heard about the conference on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:11:23: Next on the lineup in November from the 17th through the 18th, the
01:11:30: Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology is going to be held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania on the theme for Still Our Ancient Foe.
01:11:41: That's November 17th through the 18th, featuring such speakers as Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles, Dennis Cahill, Scott Oliphant, and others.
01:11:53: Go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org, click on events, and then click on Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology, and look for that and register for that conference there.
01:12:05: The conference theme, again, for Still Our Ancient Foe, a line from the classic hymn by Martin Luther, A Mighty Fortress.
01:12:14: Last but not least, the G3 Conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia from the 18th of January to the 20th in 2018.
01:12:25: The theme is Knowing God, A Biblical Understanding of Discipleship, featuring such speakers as Paul Washer, Stephen Lawson, Votie Baucom, H .B.
01:12:33: Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice, my dear friend of many years, Dr. James R.
01:12:38: White of Alpha Omega Ministries, Tom Askell of Founders Ministries, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, and others.
01:12:49: Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and you can click on G3 2018 and register there.
01:13:00: And again, please always tell whatever organization is running an event that we are promoting, please always tell those running those events that you heard about those events from Chris Arnzen and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:13:16: And we appreciate that very much because we want these organizations to continue to support
01:13:24: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in any way they can. Well, now we are back to reenter our discussion with Aaron Dunlop, a native of Northern Ireland and graduate of Geneva Reform Seminary in South Carolina, founder of thinkgospel .com.
01:13:42: We are discussing FAME, Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,
01:13:56: chrisarnzen at gmail .com. And I'm assuming we have you back,
01:14:02: Aaron. I know that you emailed me saying that we lost connection. We lost connection, but I'm back.
01:14:07: Praise God for that. We do have a listener in, let's see, it's
01:14:15: Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says, you said earlier that there are men coming from the
01:14:23: Pentecostal churches and other churches that are seeking education from your school.
01:14:29: Are the pastors of those churches or anyone else involved in those denominations or organizations becoming upset with the fact that you are introducing them to theology that they do not agree with?
01:14:45: That's a good question. I haven't heard of any upset, and to be honest, any
01:14:55: Pentecostal -leaning individual that I've spoken to at the teaching events that I've undertaken are just so thrilled to be hearing substantive teaching from Scripture that, in many cases, they haven't heard before.
01:15:14: So they're thrilled to hear the Word being taught. My last session of teaching, actually, at the end of April, beginning of May, I taught a week on the
01:15:25: Holy Spirit. We fielded many questions the whole week dealing with the subject of the
01:15:33: Holy Spirit. I knew going into the week that there would be many questions. I was aware of the
01:15:39: Pentecostal influence in the area and that there would be those coming. They were very receptive to it, and when they hear the
01:15:48: Scriptures being taught and answers to their questions being based on Scripture, they're very receptive to the teaching.
01:15:59: But I have not heard of any authority or leaders in the
01:16:05: Church being upset. Thank you, Arnie and Perry County, and please keep listening to Iron Sharpens Iron and spreading the
01:16:11: Word about our program. Well, what kind of Pentecostalism are we speaking about that is problematic?
01:16:21: Obviously, that is a very large umbrella, that term,
01:16:27: Pentecostal. I mean, you and I are cessationists. We do not believe in the continuation of the sign gifts, and I have some brothers in Christ who more closely resemble a
01:16:43: Reformed Baptist because their belief of continuationism is something that is so secondary or tertiary, or even lower on the rung of importance, that it's not even noticeable in their congregations.
01:17:03: And then you have others that, obviously, you have Pentecostal and Charismatic churches that have embraced very dangerous things, like the
01:17:10: Word of Faith movement. You have those churches being duped by swindlers and charlatans who are bilking them out of countless thousands of dollars.
01:17:23: I mean, if you add it up, obviously millions of dollars. So what are we speaking about here as Pentecostalism being any kind of a religious threat, spiritually, of course?
01:17:36: I think the greatest influence, the greatest Pentecostal influence is the Word of Faith, the health, wealth, and prosperity.
01:17:45: And of all the places not to preach such a gospel, or so -called gospel, is in Africa.
01:17:53: And so many of the Christians were countering that idea, the Benny Hinn -type healing even.
01:18:02: But the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel has made a great influence for them in Africa.
01:18:11: And most of our questions would have been fielded from that perspective. Now, one thing that I find interesting is that you would have
01:18:22: Word of Faith, name it and claim it, theology, or heresy, more aptly put, thriving in Africa.
01:18:33: Because you would think that after 5, 10, 15 years, when nothing has changed in the person's financial situation, when people realize this is not working, the things that we are promised are not happening,
01:18:51: I am still poor, I am still living in the depths of poverty, barely able to survive.
01:19:00: The only ones that I see who are receiving a financial blessing from God through this, they will say, are the pastors or leaders of this movement.
01:19:13: But as far as I can see, nobody else is getting rich from this. How can this still have traction there?
01:19:22: Well, to be honest, I think the same question could be asked in North America. Because if it doesn't work in Africa, it's not going to work in North America, right?
01:19:34: So you're going to have people in North America who are believing this gospel and discovering 10 or 15 years later that it hasn't worked.
01:19:43: So I believe what you're going to get is a cycle of people through their system. And I presume, therefore, that's what you're going to get there.
01:19:51: Because the model is just the same in Africa. You're dealing with the different economics, but the model is still the same.
01:19:59: And in fact, on the road, the main road out of Nairobi towards Mwingi, which is the main town in our area, there's one of these health, wealth and prosperity gospelers building his own empire.
01:20:17: And you can see the construction of it already going and he's known for his false gospel.
01:20:24: So, you know, I presume people get frustrated and move on, realize that it hasn't worked, they just move on, and he gets somebody else in the cycle.
01:20:36: We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, When you had
01:20:42: Pastor Sam Olywatch on your program, the area that he specifically lived in, in Kenya, was very much like the suburbs of Pennsylvania where you,
01:20:55: Chris Arnzen, are hosting your program. What is the area like where your guest now is speaking about in Kenya?
01:21:06: The area that we work in is an area that is plagued with abject poverty.
01:21:14: We're dealing with very, very poor people. For instance, one of the days
01:21:22: I was there, I was there for two weeks. The first week was teaching. The second week,
01:21:28: I was getting more and more interaction with the mission, the different aspects of the mission.
01:21:33: And on the Wednesday that week, I went out on the motorbikes into what we call remote village evangelism.
01:21:40: The evangelist, Philip, our missionary, Rodney Davidson, and myself on three motorbikes into areas where we couldn't walk or take another vehicle.
01:21:53: And we sit under a tree, you ride up to a little shamba, a little home and farm, and the family all come out.
01:22:01: They get the chairs under the tree or you sit on a half 40 -gallon drum or a 5 -gallon drum, and you sit for an hour and present the gospel.
01:22:10: These are people who are living in abject poverty. One old lady, for instance, she was sitting outside her mud hut with,
01:22:19: I believe she had a tin roof. Many of them were thatched roof. The mud hut was falling apart.
01:22:25: She had a very thin mattress lying out in the sun. And it was about a 10 by 8, a little home that she lived in, a mud hut.
01:22:37: That's what they're living in. And that's the demographics of the economics of the people with whom we're working.
01:22:48: Well, thank you, CJ. Keep spreading the word in Lindenhurst, Long Island and beyond. Now, when you describe these people in this abject poverty, how on earth are
01:22:58: Word of Faith ministries making money off of these people?
01:23:04: I mean, are they just receiving livestock and crops? I mean, what are they actually getting from these people?
01:23:12: Well, I'm sure the Word of Faith people would be influencing more in the suburbs and the city areas.
01:23:22: They're influencing these remote areas, maybe not as remote as where we're going in that case of remote evangelism, but they're certainly influencing the area.
01:23:34: And the Christians in the area know the philosophy behind it, so they're aware of it.
01:23:41: Obviously, the Word of Faith charlatans aren't building their empires on the money of these people, but they're certainly influencing them.
01:23:52: And I remember during my recent discussion that you heard with Pastor Sam Olwatch.
01:23:59: I think that's the time I just pronounced his name correctly. Sorry, Pastor Sam, that I keep butchering it.
01:24:06: But I remember now that my memory tool was somebody asked me, is that a new watch?
01:24:12: No, it's an old watch. So that's how I have to remember Pastor Sam's name, Pastor Sam Olwatch.
01:24:18: When I was interviewing him, witch doctors are a very real phenomenon in Kenya and other parts of Africa, obviously.
01:24:29: And some of these Word of Faith Pentecostal churches or extreme
01:24:35: Pentecostal churches, their pastors or their faith healers really have very little difference from the local witch doctor, except that he might use
01:24:50: Christian language or buzzwords or catchphrases. Have you been experiencing any confrontation with any witch doctors locally where you are?
01:25:04: No, I haven't personally. I know our missionary Rodney Davidson has. One old lady, for instance, he visited in these remote village evangelism.
01:25:15: He visited her, and she was converted, and he went back to her, and she's sitting now reading the
01:25:24: Scriptures, listening to the gospel. And she said to him, he does it through an interpreter, of course, he doesn't come to me at night anymore.
01:25:34: And obviously, she's obviously speaking of the devil. Wow. Witchcraft. Yeah. Rodney has a number of stories as he's gone out into remote villages to evangelize of cases like this.
01:25:50: Witchcraft is ongoing in that part of Africa, and there are people being saved out of it in the area in which we work.
01:26:02: Praise God. Well, we are going to our final break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for our guest
01:26:12: Aaron Dunlop about fame, this mission work in Africa, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
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01:26:33: USA. And if you insist on remaining anonymous because of a personal and private matter that is involved in your question, we will accept that and we will honor your request.
01:26:46: But otherwise, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back after these messages with Aaron Dunlop.
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01:32:20: This is Chris Orns, and if you just tuned us in for the last 90 minutes in the next half hour to come, our guest has been and will continue to be
01:32:29: Aaron Dunlop, a native of Northern Ireland, graduate of Geneva Reform Seminary in South Carolina, an author and the founder of ThinkGospel .com.
01:32:39: We are discussing FAME, Friends of Africa Missionary Endeavor, which was founded by his father,
01:32:46: Alan Dunlop. And Alan, as we said earlier, is one of the featured speakers at The Foundations Conference, the conference organized by Sermon Audio in New York City in the
01:32:59: Chelsea area of Manhattan on 350 West 26th
01:33:04: Street, to be precise. And that's from June 22nd through the 23rd. He is one of a number of speakers at that conference, and we hope that you register at TheFoundationsConference .com,
01:33:17: TheFoundationsConference .com to attend that event. But if you'd like to join us with a question of your own for Aaron over the next 25 minutes or so that we have left, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:33:34: chrisarnson at gmail .com. And we have Murray in Kinross, Scotland, who says,
01:33:41: I've missed some of the program, so apologies if this has already been covered. Do you have much involvement with literature and radio ministry in the part of Kenya that you labor in?
01:33:56: That's an interesting question. We have, there's a lot of literature going out from a ministry in Northern Ireland to Kenya, and we're very thankful for that revival ministry in Northern Ireland and also from another ministry there.
01:34:14: We have been looking into, I met a man while I was there in Nairobi with regards to looking into a radio mast for local radio.
01:34:26: So, that discussion actually is ongoing to try to get local radio in the area.
01:34:34: Well, thank you, Murray in Kinross, Scotland. Please continue to spread the word about Iron Sherpins Iron in the
01:34:40: UK. BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania asks,
01:34:47: I know that in the United States, it has been proven to be very effective to have
01:34:52: Bible conferences with notable speakers and authors and theologians on the dais or on the roster of these conferences to draw people to explore and discover and embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace or reform theology.
01:35:12: Has FAME been using this method as well there in Kenya? We haven't, as far as getting big names.
01:35:25: Any sort of a Bible conference in the area in which we work, any sort of teaching week draws big numbers, no matter who the speaker is.
01:35:35: And I say that because I was a speaker for the past two years. We had numbers up to 220 plus for a week teaching here in our compound.
01:35:49: We have a resource center, which is associated with our small Bible college. And this is an area that I would like to see developed.
01:35:58: We need the laborers. We need the finance to develop it. But I would like to see the area of pastor training, conferences of bringing men from North America and our board here in North America have discussed this as a way that we could go forward, bringing pastors who want a broader influence, a trip to Africa to teach the
01:36:24: African church and input as far as their church ministry is concerned, as far away as Africa.
01:36:31: It's an area that we would, that I personally would like to see developed to make our college more robust, full -time, and to engage other men in North America in the ministry that we have there.
01:36:46: The door is open. The fields are white to harvest.
01:36:53: And we're praying that the Lord will send laborers. In fact, that verse came to me very forcibly while I was there, just a past visit.
01:37:02: The need for laborers is phenomenal. The wide open door in Africa and ministry in Africa is phenomenal.
01:37:10: And we need laborers. We need finance to branch out and to do more. And there's so much more we could do in both the remote clinic evangelism and in the
01:37:20: Bible college area of our work. Well, that leads me to ask you, and I'd like you to have as much time as you need to be very detailed on this.
01:37:34: Please let our listeners know every way that they could be of help to the mission work that you are participating in there with your father.
01:37:44: I know that obviously you need financial assistance, but there are most likely other avenues that people can use their gifts to assist you in the labors there.
01:37:58: Just let our listeners know exactly what you need from them. And who knows what God will rise up out of that, not only because this program is live and heard all around the world, but the recording is archived or will be
01:38:14: God willing on the website of ironsharpensironradio .com. And you never know who will discover this interview.
01:38:21: So please let everyone know exactly how they can be of help to fame. Well, the first thing, of course,
01:38:29: I said without trying to be cliche is to pray. Not all will go and not all can give, but all can pray.
01:38:39: So that's the first thing we need is to pray and to pray the Lord will send forth laborers into the field and to pray the
01:38:47: Lord will provide the need that we already have on the field, both for the ongoing famine relief, the clinic work, the orphanage work, the baby rescue unit, the
01:39:00: Bible college that's ongoing, and the general maintenance of the clinic, of the compound there.
01:39:10: But we in North America would love to see another outreach clinic built and developed in another area.
01:39:22: I visited an area about two hours from where our main base is, our headquarters there.
01:39:29: And the area has no evangelical work. There's no running water. The people have to walk for an hour to get dirty water to live on.
01:39:39: They have no electricity and there's no medical assistance. They have to walk for over an hour to get medical assistance.
01:39:48: And this is just one area of many that we could work in, but this is an area that I visited.
01:39:54: I met the people and the need there is phenomenal. We have already got an outreach clinic in a place called
01:40:01: Manoa and it costs about a thousand dollars a month, a thousand US dollars a month to run that clinic.
01:40:09: The capital has already been provided. The clinic has already been built. The land has already been acquired and the running cost is about a thousand dollars a month.
01:40:19: And that includes the medicine, the two nurses, the one nurse and a nurse's aide and a chaplain assigned to that clinic.
01:40:28: And he does evangelism in the area and the literature, the gospel literature that is associated with that clinic.
01:40:36: We would like to see another one, as I said, developed in another area. If we could get a businessman, a church to give towards that particular project, that's something that I would like to see developed.
01:40:52: It's a potential for our mission. Another aspect, of course, is the pastor's training.
01:40:59: It's on my heart to train the pastors, to teach the pastors and to give them the basis and more literature, as your last question came in there from Scotland, more literature.
01:41:12: If there is someone who has access to more literature and resources that they could send out,
01:41:19: I'd be happy to hear from you. To run that college, it's about $10 ,000 a year.
01:41:29: To make that a full -time college, we would need about $10 ,000 a year. So when you look at the potential of the work, $10 ,000 is very, very little from a
01:41:44: North American perspective, but it goes a long, long way in Africa.
01:41:50: When I'm talking about running a clinic for $1 ,000 and the catchment area that that is servicing, the impact is phenomenal.
01:42:00: We cannot compute the impact that our first clinic and that our existing remote clinic has made on the area, both health -wise and also spiritually for the people there in Africa.
01:42:17: So that's what I personally would appeal for, is that the opportunities for a remote clinic, another remote clinic, $1 ,000 a month, and also our
01:42:28: Bible college. Well, I want you to let our listeners know about the missionary safari coming up July 31st through August 16th.
01:42:42: Yes, that trip has planned to go. As I said before, I'm not going on this particular trip.
01:42:50: A guy called Trevor Cunningham here from Toronto is leading that trip. They're going out with a group from Northern Ireland.
01:42:58: They'll meet there and they will dig a track that will go from the existing borehole.
01:43:05: They'll change the pipe from the borehole to the tank. The new tank will already be in place by that time, the
01:43:14: Lord willing. With the new tank and the new pipe, the new borehole, the new water pump in place, they will be able to reinstate the water to the villages and to the schools.
01:43:28: So they're excited about that, just to see clean water running in Africa.
01:43:34: It's a phenomenon that many Africans have never seen. We take it for granted.
01:43:40: We turn on the faucet, we get a drink of water, and we think nothing of it. For clean water to run in the part of Africa in which we work, it's a phenomenon that many have never witnessed.
01:43:55: Sorry, go ahead. So are you saying that this missionary safari is a fundraiser for that?
01:44:02: What is the connection with the safari that you're having? The safari is just a word that we use for that missions trip.
01:44:12: Oh, I see. Yeah, sorry. And they will go, by the way, they will go on a safari.
01:44:20: Safari is just another word for a journey or a trip. They will go on a safari while they're there to Meru National Park, which is a beautiful reserve, and they'll see the animals and so forth on the last two days of the trip.
01:44:36: But it's a missions trip to get people involved, to encourage interest in the mission, and to take young people to that part of Africa in which they will see the need, they will see the people, they will engage with the people there, and that trip to a spiritual heart will change their lives and will change their perspective on life in North America.
01:45:05: A trip to Africa, to this part of Africa, is life -changing. You're never the same once you've seen these people, you've met them, and you've shared the gospel with them, you've interacted with them, and shared in the fellowship of the gospel.
01:45:19: It's a life -changer, and that's what we do these missions trips for, not only to help the people there on the ground, but to engage our young people here in North America, to take them there and to show them the glory of what it is to work with these people and to do something for the
01:45:38: Lord among this very needy people. So if a church hearing this wants to set up a trip to Kenya to do some kind of work there,
01:45:55: I mean, this is a controversial thing actually, because perhaps you could respond to this.
01:46:02: I have heard from some involved in missionary work on the mission field who are not comfortable with churches treating a mission field trip like a vacation for the youth, and some of the activity involved in the churches is actually something that is problematic, gets in the way of what is actually going on with those actual ministries overseas such as yours, where they don't think that the resources and finances are being spent as well as they could.
01:46:48: They have said the resources and funds of your church sending a whole youth group over to Africa would be better spent if you just funded the local indigenous organization rather than shipping out a bunch of kids.
01:47:07: So what is your philosophy or thought on that? Yeah, I've heard that argument many, many times and we've discussed it.
01:47:15: I've talked about it. I myself spent a year in Jamaica. I'm aware of the disruption that a holiday maker can have on a local missionary, and I did not encourage that.
01:47:30: I discouraged it while I was there in Jamaica. But as far as the work in Kenya is concerned, our young people, the young people who go on our trips are not on a holiday.
01:47:42: We might take them the last two days, as I said, on a safari on the way to the airport. They'll go via Meru National Park and they'll see the sights.
01:47:52: But while they're there, it is not a holiday. They're working with the people. They're working for the people.
01:47:58: They're engaging in the ministry. It's a spiritual exercise. And another aspect which you mentioned and which
01:48:07: I'm very specifically against is a church funding these young people.
01:48:14: The young people that go on our trips are funding themselves. So they might get gifts and be helped by other people in the church or by a church who wants to particularly give to a group or an individual, but the young people that go on our trips are funded.
01:48:31: They're funding the trip themselves. These are young people who are sacrificing in many cases to go.
01:48:37: And so that's a big, that's a key element from my perspective on young people who go because you're right,
01:48:46: I would be against on their mission. It does not facilitate holidaymakers like that.
01:48:55: So yeah, the argument is broad. There's many different aspects and dimensions to it.
01:49:01: Does it disrupt the mission too much? Is there better ways to spend the money?
01:49:07: Would it not be better to send the money? But we have found that many, many people who go are so influenced by the work and the spiritual interaction of the work and the team in which they're involved that they come back better for it.
01:49:26: They have a lifelong interest in the mission. And many of the people that we have now involved in the mission were some of the first teams that went out 20 years ago.
01:49:36: Wow. I'll praise God for that. And as much as I hate to admit it, when someone with a false theology and dare
01:49:45: I say even a cult can do something in some aspect in a superior fashion to Christian churches,
01:49:55: I think that in some way we can learn a lesson from the Mormons. And I say that with fear and trepidation in my heart.
01:50:06: But the Mormons typically, from what I understand, they send out their missionaries not only domestically but globally.
01:50:16: And those young men, they pay their own way for everything. And they get jobs where they go and make a living.
01:50:24: And they pay their own rent and so on. This is something that should probably be done by more
01:50:29: Christian young people because the money would be siphoned out of actual uses that it would be better suited for, such as just sending a check to fame or something, and let them, let you and your co -laborers there use the funds where you believe it's most wisely put.
01:50:54: Yeah, you know, and I reiterate that these young people who go and all the families who go are spending their own money.
01:51:02: They're sacrificing very many of them. They're shaving up to go and they're paying over a period of time in order to raise the money to go.
01:51:12: Over 90 % of the money raised by our mission, I think it's over 93%, goes directly to the field.
01:51:22: So our board is a volunteer board. The work that we do both in Northern Ireland and in North America here is volunteer work.
01:51:31: So the majority, the vast majority, over 93 % of the money is going directly to the people.
01:51:40: And folks can, when they go to your website, when they go to fame at mission .org,
01:51:48: they can actually, if they don't want to just send you a check and, you know, with no specific intent, just for general use, if they would rather fund a project, you actually have that way that people can easily do that on your website at famemission .org,
01:52:06: where they can pick a project. Right. We have the two projects at the minute ongoing is the outreach rescue clinic and the water tank project.
01:52:17: The outreach rescue clinic, the water project is ongoing, of course, but the outreach rescue clinic is the greatest focus of our mission here, our ministry in North America, and our brother
01:52:31: Stephen Lee of Sermon Audio has done an amazing work in a new documentary that he's produced from Sermon Audio, Mungo Kwanzaa, which is
01:52:42: God First in Saheli. And in that DVD video, he tells the story of a mission through the lives of particular individuals.
01:52:58: And so that work, the outreach rescue clinic is a major project ongoing at the present time.
01:53:07: But yeah, you can go to the website, famemission .org, and you can give to either of those projects, you can give a one -off donation, you can set it up to give monthly or weekly or whatever, and yeah, rather than sending a check -in.
01:53:24: We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, if a pastor who has a similar or identical theological background to you wants to preach at some event that you're having, do you welcome such visits from pastors and preachers and evangelists who are qualified and who are within the perimeters of theology that you welcome?
01:53:55: Yes, if it's a pastor, Reformed evangelical pastor who wants to teach and broaden his influence of ministry in Africa, tell him to give me a call, drop me an email, rmd at famemissions .org,
01:54:12: and we'll certainly, we use individuals who are interested in the work there.
01:54:19: If you could, before we go, I'd like you to give perhaps some kind of a memorable anecdote, a story or something that relates to what you're doing that may give an idea of why this is such an important work you're involved in.
01:54:42: Well, there are many memorable occasions, like sitting under a tree for an hour just talking to an old lady who's never heard the gospel but always believed there's a
01:54:56: God. She held her stomach and said,
01:55:02: I believe there's a God because while I was carrying in my babies I knew this had to be of God, only
01:55:09: God could do this. So the idea of general revelation is phenomenal and we met no atheists, they believe that the
01:55:21: God exists and so when we go to teach the gospel it's from the basis of a
01:55:28: God who created the world and they're aware of him in creation, the heavens declare the glory of God and they're aware of that.
01:55:37: So when you go to teach them either under a tree in a remote shamba or in a bible college setting where I was teaching for a week, they're just eager to hear the word of God and to drink it in and to question and we could have sat for hours more than we did just questioning and discussing the subject that we had on hand that week.
01:56:06: So just the eagerness to learn and to drink in the word of God, we're so thirsty for the word.
01:56:13: You know we in North America, one of your listeners just mentioned there the whole conference circuit and right on that against conferences,
01:56:22: I think the Reformed Church in North America talks too much to itself and not enough to the world around it where we need to get out into these areas of Africa and reach people who need to be reached.
01:56:37: Many of the conferences that we go to are talking to people who already know the gospel, they're letting know
01:56:45: Reformed theology so they're just wallowing in their own theology that they're letting know.
01:56:53: We're in an area where these people are hungry for the word, we need to be taught.
01:56:59: So I would like to see more reaching out and I know like your previous um interviewee from Kenya was thrilled to hear that gentleman from Kisumu and the work of the
01:57:14: Reformed Church in Kenya and our brother in Zambia Conrad Mbeye.
01:57:20: The work in Africa is open for workers and for finance to help these brethren as they go forward propagating the truth and preaching the truth and disseminating the gospel into this area.
01:57:38: The gospel is going into these areas and as we said before the Pentecostal church and broad evangelicalism is going into these areas and the church is growing faster in these in Asia and Africa than it is in North America.
01:57:52: We need to get out then and teach in the wake of this um work of evangelism.
01:57:59: We need to get out and teach them and teach the pastors the gospel that they can go out there and teach and disseminate in their areas that we will never get to.
01:58:10: Amen. Well I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your contact information.
01:58:16: First of all you can go to the FAME website which we have been mentioning throughout the program but it is
01:58:25: FAMEMISSION .ORG. FAME mission and it's not plural it's a singular word
01:58:31: FAMEMISSION .ORG and you could also go to THINKGOSPEL .COM
01:58:38: THINKGOSPEL .COM and last but not least don't forget about the
01:58:43: Foundations Conference where Aaron's father Alan will be on the roster of speakers
01:58:50: June 22nd through the 23rd in New York City and God willing
01:58:55: I will be there and that website is THEFOUNDATIONSCONFERENCE .COM THEFOUNDATIONSCONFERENCE .COM
01:59:03: and do you plan to be there as well Aaron? I do yes
01:59:09: I plan to go down on the Thursday and be there for the Thursday and Friday.
01:59:15: Great well God willing I will be there too and I'm looking forward to meeting you face to face.
01:59:21: Yes indeed. That's THEFOUNDATIONSCONFERENCE .COM
01:59:27: THEFOUNDATIONSCONFERENCE .COM Well I want to thank everybody who listened today I want to thank especially those who took the time to write in questions of course
01:59:35: I want to thank you again Aaron Dunlop for being my guest and our listeners know about this wonderful ministry fame in Kenya and I want all of you to have a safe and blessed weekend and Lord's Day and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater