Exposing Fake Healers with Justin Peters

And I'm just going to tell you, you're so smug that you cannot listen to somebody try to talk to you about something without ridicule. It's incorrect. I know it's incorrect, but according to the way you want to absolutely interpret it...

No, no, no. He's saying that he's smug is incorrect.

No, I am smug. I own it.

Praise the Lord. I'm so glad you finally agreed to something.

I'm fine with it. It doesn't bother me. One, two, three! Welcome to Apologetics Live. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce.

We are live, Apologetics Live, here to answer your challenging questions about God and the Bible. We're here every Thursday night, or at least we try to be, to answer any questions that you have, challenges, whatever you have.

Tonight, we're going to have a little bit of a special topic, as we try to always do. Just because we have topics doesn't mean we're not here to answer your questions. If you feel free to join us, just come on in.

Just go to apologeticslive .com. From that site, you will be able to click on the StreamYard link, which brings you... it's that duck icon... and brings you in and to the backstage. And then we will add you in.

Let me bring my co-host here, Pastor Justin. How are you, sir?

Doing really wonderful. How are you doing?

Good. Did you enjoy that intro, that clip from last week?

I was wondering if he was going to get the second part, where he got angry at you for calling him prideful, and I put up the definition of what smug was.

Oh, maybe I got to go back and grab that. I did grab a couple of them. I did grab a couple of them. We have some interesting comments from him. Maybe we'll have an opportunity to play them.

Well, just so everybody knows, the reason I said smug is because he was being very smug. And the definition of smug is prideful. I mean, it's flat out prideful.

He got upset when I said he was being prideful.

Yes, he did. But he admitted to it gladly and owned it when I said he was being smug. Maybe you should know terms before you own them and claim them for yourself.

Well, I said to Mr. Stockwell, who's here, he's not going to be on camera, but he doesn't want to be, but I said that he admitted to things that actually would kind of disqualify him as a minister of the gospel.

That's not—. That's right. So next week you'll get an opportunity, hopefully, to talk with Norm. I sent him my 20-some questions. I think there were 20, actually, questions. I didn't see your questions.

No, I sent it just to him. Okay. But I sent him my questions. So he now has—I mean, he's got the questions I want to ask him. So hopefully we'll have him back on and we can go through more of the questions.

I think I'll ask him if he could give me in writing answers. That would be helpful. That would be nice. So that we have them ahead of time. So just real quick, next week, just programming note, Pastor Justin is going to be with Norm, the preacher Norm.

That's the guy that we had on last week. That is the guy that is a minister of the Church of Christ. So I'm sure the issue of baptismal regeneration will come up. Maybe smugness will come up. May that be a good thing is to ask him if he understands the definition of smugness and start with that.

Well, even if he doesn't come, we are still going to have an entire conversation about it. Josiah is going to come in, and we're going to have a good conversation. We've been talking a lot about the issues.

And no matter what happens next week, unless the Lord returns, we're going to rapture. No matter what happens, whether he shows up or not, we're still going to have a very good show, and we're going to talk about the issues either way it goes.

Real quick, before we get started, I do have a concern here. Pastor Justin, I think you'll understand. Do you have any ways of locking the refrigerator? Because I got a stock well in the house, and I'm very nervous that he's been eyeing my food.

Well, I've had Mike at the house, and I understand that. But I have a 15-year-old who is a swimmer now, and he's a bottomless pit.

Who eats more, a stock well or your 15-year-old son?

I'm going to say, I don't know, Mike. Mike probably has it. Mike's probably still got it.

Yeah, we plan on going to some all-you-can-eat sushi place and put them out of business. So tonight's topic is going to be exposing fake faith healers. But the issue here is these are being exposed by not who we expect.

We usually expect, well, Mr. Justin Peters, there he is. We usually expect him to be the ones doing that. Oh, KT says you need to be well stocked for a stock well.

Yeah, I like that. I like that.

Mr. Peters, how are you, sir? I am doing well, brothers. How are y 'all? Good, good.

Now, you requested us bring someone in who is new to me, not to you. So let me bring him in. Steve, how are you, sir? Hi, guys. I'm doing good. Good. So that was neat. I could switch that easily. I didn't want to play with that.

So Steve Kosar, you worked, at least I know a little of your work. I've seen you on American Gospel. We're going to play a clip of that later. You've kind of exposed some of the tricks that some of these guys do, at least Todd White.

And so that's something that actually we could Justin, do you want us just to play that now or do you want to hold off for that one until later?

Whatever you want to do. Maybe once we define the subject matter tonight, then we can go to it. Okay, sure.

The Documentary Exposing Faith Healer Tricks

So one of the things that we end up seeing, we have these faith healers or fake healers, if you really want to call them what they are, guys that go and pretend to do healings. And Justin, you have a ministry that's kind of pigeonholed you.

Everyone knows you just for that one thing of exposing these guys. For folks that don't know, Justin's actually a really good exegete of scripture, and that's the main thing that he does. But everyone has you speaking on like Benny Hinn and all these guys.

Invite Justin to your church to just preach at a pulpit. That's a good thing to do. He preaches really well. But that aside, these guys go out and they have little tricks that they do. Now, I'm going to have to ask, Justin, for you to give a background on this person, Darren Brown, because this was something that you sent to us.

And I have a clip of this. How long is this clip? This is a seven-minute clip that I don't know if we'll play the whole thing that you first sent us of faith healers' tricks exposed. I may have sent you the wrong one.

I don't think I sent you the wrong one. Well, this was several days ago. Actually, it may have been Pastor Justin that sent it and sparked it.

Okay. All right, so Darren Brown, he's a British guy, and he's done a number of documentaries on various things. I guess he would call himself a skeptic, a skeptic at large. He's a professing atheist, and he's done a number of things like debunking psychics and that kind of stuff, kind of like James Randi did back in the 80s and 90s and alts.

But Darren Brown contacted me because he was doing a documentary on faith healers. And the title of the documentary is Miracles for Sale. And so he had heard or someone that works with him heard of me and my research, and they contacted me.

And they actually interviewed me for this documentary, and they ended up not using any of the footage that they took with me. And it's because I made the request, if they're going to use my footage, please allow me to share what the true gospel is.

And so I gave a very brief gospel presentation, but they didn't want to put that in there, so they just dropped everything. Wow. All of my stuff. That's fine. I mean, it's not fine that the gospel didn't get in, but whatever.

But nonetheless, I watched the documentary, and it was well done. It's very interesting because the gist of it is he was sent out to prove that what these faith healers do is indeed fake. And he took this guy named Nathan, and Nathan is not a believer.

He's not a Christian. He's an agnostic, calls himself an agnostic. And Darren Brown spent some weeks with him, training him in the lingo of faith healers, in the tactics of faith healers. And he wanted to see if he could take this guy, who's not even a Christian, and see if this guy could get the same results as the, if there is such a thing, real faith healers.

Right. That's an oxymoron. And you know what? He did. He did. He got the exact same results. This Nathan guy, after a few weeks of training, went out on the streets, and he did the exact same thing that Todd White does, exact same thing, and got 100 success.

Every single person he went up to randomly on the street, he had a 100 success rate in alleviating them from their pains, and one person, at least one person, lengthened their legs. And the people were absolutely convinced that this guy, this Nathan guy, was the real deal, and they were shocked.

They were shocked because their pain went away, their aches and pains. One guy you will see touches his toes, and could you do that before? No, I couldn't do that before. I can do it now. It's amazing.

It's a miracle. This guy's a complete fraud, and Nathan's a complete fraud, and that's the whole point. So anyway, that's kind of the gist. And it's interesting that they aired this back in 2011, so this documentary is now 11 years old, and this was before Todd White really.

I mean, Todd White was around, but he wasn't anywhere nearly as well-known as what he is now.

Okay, so that's really the history. So this was at least new to me. I hadn't seen it 11 years ago, and I didn't see. Originally, I just had the seven-minute clip from there that Pastor Justin sent out.

So do you want me to play the part that you had?

Do the three and the one I sent you, because that deals with exactly what I just described.

Okay, so let me share my screen here to where we can see that.

All right. And I will…. You got it at the 56-minute, 30-second mark? Yeah. About that. Yeah, that's pretty close.

We'll hit play. The reason for choosing an ordinary person to be a faith healer is to show, as I believe, that the healing is not God's work. Anyone, having been taught certain tricks and techniques, can do it.

As you know, pain is a very subjective thing, whether it's the adrenaline of a big show or just somebody telling them with enough confidence that the pain is gone. There are many videos online of street faith healers supposedly curing the sick, so on a cold Dallas morning, I take our former scuba diver out to see if he can do the same.

This will be more of a challenge than working with a receptive congregation, but I think Nathan's ready to do it. Any ailment? Right now? Pastor James? Do you have any pains?

Have you got any pains? I have pain in my leg. I had surgery right here. They said it was going to have pain. I had a rib put in, and I always want to get cold. So you've got a plate in there?

You've got a plate? Yes, sir. The first person we find is in persistent pain from a metal plate in his leg.

It hurts a lot, right? So when you get up, I bet when you get up from a chair or from here, you've got to push yourself up with your arms, whereas when you were younger, you just sprung up, right? Yeah, right.

I'm going to put my hands on your leg, okay? And I want you to think about the pain you're in right now, okay? And that's a 10, okay? Nathan knows the techniques. This is his moment of truth. Dear Lord, this man's plate in his leg is causing so much pain.

That plate's so cold. You're warming it up right now, Lord. You're warming it up right now. I can feel the man shaking in your power. I can feel the man shaking in your power, Lord.

You get that pain right out. You get that cold right out. Can you feel that? Yes. What's it like? What does it feel like? It's a tingling feeling in my leg, man. It's pain. Stand right up. Stand right up.

You don't have to push up.

See? You didn't have to push up this time, right? Remember what we were talking about? You had to push up. The man is very moved and staggered that his pain has gone. You told me that pain was a 10 before, right?

Yes, sir. Okay. What's that pain in that left leg right now? It's reduced, hasn't it? That pain? Zero. High five.

You got any aches and pains? Somewhat. Your back? Lower back? So I want you to remember. What I want you to remember right now is how bad that pain is right now. Imagine that's a level 10, okay? Lord, let the power of your Holy Spirit pass through this man.

Let that pain be gone so this man can move freely. Amen. I can feel that heat. Can you feel that? Because I can feel there's a lot of heat just all here. Stand up for me. So it's a 10 before, right? So it's a 10.

So what is it now? Three. Three? Two. Can you touch your toes?

Can you do that so easily? Did you do that before properly? No. You couldn't do that before? No. I had a car wreck like two months ago. You were in a car wreck two months ago and you've had a pain in your back since then.

What did it feel like? Gone. Thank you, God. These people aren't really being healed, but they are experiencing pain relief brought about by suggestion. Nathan heightens their expectation and they respond accordingly, their minds at least for a while not feeling any pain.

Put your hand on top of mine. It works on every single volunteer. Can you feel that? Because I can feel something happen there.

Can you feel that? Yeah. Yeah? What I want you to do, extend your legs, put your feet into my hands.

Even tries the old leg lengthening routine. So this leg is shorter by an inch. Can you see that difference? Telling people their problems are caused by having one leg shorter than the other and then manipulating a shoe to create the illusion that a leg is lengthened.

Stand up. Stand up. Walk. A favorite trick performed by healers who claim that it's real. Jesus has healed you, right? Yeah. Afterwards, we tell all the people Nathan healed the true nature of what we're doing.

This guy isn't really a faith healer. We carry on finding more people and keep getting the same positive results. So with a 100 success rate, Pastor James has healed the sick. I'm astonished at how effortless it is.

The nature of pain is clearly so subjective that in the same way that you don't notice, you cut your finger sometimes until you look down and actually see the blood and then suddenly it starts to hurt.

In the same way, it can go like that if somebody just has you believe that it's gone. So there we go.

Yeah. That's how it's done. I mean, here is a guy who is not even a Christian, doesn't believe any of this, knew nothing of the evangelical lingo's or faith healing tactics at all until a couple of weeks before this was filmed.

He goes out and he has a 100 success rate. He does the exact same thing that Todd White does, which proves beyond any shadow of a doubt from any halfway reasonable person that Todd White is a fraud.

And everybody else, all of his ilk frauds. You know, a trained monkey can do the same thing that they can do.

Yeah, it's amazing that they wanted to, I did pick up, they said they want to make sure to explain to each person that they're not really faith healers and who they really are, but they didn't want you to share the actual gospel.

Yeah. Yeah, that is interesting. But I will say to that point, though, Andrew, is that at least Darren Brown and this Nathan guy, I don't remember his last name, but at least they had the decency to go and tell these people, we were just, this was fake.

We weren't, this isn't real. So they have here, Darren Brown's a homosexual. So here you have a homosexual and just a general loss guy. So we have more integrity than Todd White. I agree with that, though, Justin.

He's not a homosexual. He practices homosexuality. Well, yeah. There is a difference. Yeah. But I mean, that's, you know, you're right. They're having the integrity to point that out and correct that.

Yeah. The format of the show was a kind of a reality TV show. And the young man was being, he was initially, what do you call it when you have auditions? They auditioned actors. Yeah. Who all said, yeah, I want to do this thing with Darren Brown.

I want to spend, I think it was, wasn't it three or more months on this project? Was it that long? Maybe it was. It was a long time. It's been a while since I've watched this. And so people had to prove that they were good enough actors and that they were willing to go through whatever they needed to go through.

And so this guy, Nathan, as they got closer and closer, he was getting really uncomfortable with what he was supposed to do because he knew I'm going to go out there and I'm going to really play with people's deepest felt problems and issues and feelings.

And I'm probably going to do damage. And Darren, if I remember right, I watched this a couple of times, but it's been a while. He was saying, you know what? The overall good of what we're doing here is to expose the people who do this for real.

So don't feel bad about tricking people because we're going to let them know that we're tricking them after the fact. And I watched this as a guy who was coming out of the charismatic movement. And I was just so hungry to hear somebody, just somebody, please tell me the truth about what's really going on in these churches that I found it really helpful.

I wasn't buying into his atheism, but I thought, well, I respect the fact that he wants to convince the general audience out there that these frauds are doing great damage. I'm ashamed that the Christian church doesn't want to do the same thing nearly enough.

That's a good point, Steve, because as open air evangelists, I've spoken to many other guys that have had the same experience, but some of the toughest crowds to evangelize at is at some of these guys' events.

So you go to a Benny Hinn or wherever they're speaking, and those are some of the hardest places to evangelize.

I believe it. This actually gets to a really core issue. And for you guys who don't know, I have a YouTube channel and a website called The Messed Up Church. And most people know me because of my friendship with Chris Roseborough.

I do stuff with him pretty often. But there is two issues. There's the issue of people are getting tricked by these tricks. They're parlor tricks. They seem pretty obvious. How is that possible? How can people be so dumb?

That's the one level of thought. But the other issue is much deeper and much more sort of psychological. And that is there's a whole world that these people are part of. They're completely surrounded by all these self-contained thoughts.

It's like a bubble of ideas. And all of those ideas are backing up everything that happens within that world. So the outside world says, you really believe that guy made your leg the right length? How can you be so gullible?

But in that world, you've been given a whole foundation of bad ideas. And all these bad ideas make you into essentially a type of cult follower with a veneer of Christianity. And Justin and I both have talked about this on our YouTube channels.

The comments that we get from the Word of Faith New Apostolic Reformation people are the most cult-like. And they're the most resistant to any kind of honest sharing of ideas. And there's absolutely no way they would question what they currently are believing.

You know, one of the things, Steve, that people, you know, in case there's any charismatics that are watching and saying, well, no, no, we're not that way. That doesn't happen. You know, it's good to maybe take a step back and look at other things where they might agree.

And so, you know, you look at, you know, the way the media and the Democrats right now have done the very same thing. They've told a lie over and over and over again so many times that you have people that really believe the lies.

Even when they contradict everything they said, you know, like the things that got many people kicked off of YouTube a year ago, they're now openly saying, and it's like, well, hello, some of us were saying this for two years now.

And now for those that may be charismatic, think about that, because you can see that behavior when it comes to like political things, when it comes to masks or vaccines or anything with this COVID stuff.

And you see how blatant it is, how just constantly hearing the lie over and over and over and over. People believe it. And even when they change stories, people believe it. So you can't say it can't happen.

I know you may say, well, it can't happen to me. Guess what? All of the people that are believing the media are saying the same thing. They're saying it can't happen to them either. So the fact that we know it can happen and we know that it can happen to people who think it can't happen to them, like you just look at the videos and let the evidence be the proof, not your feelings, because that's really what it comes down to is none of us want to be wrong.

I mean, I understand some of us are right more often than others. I know Justin over here, both Justins, they prefer to be wrong more than right. But Steve and I, we're right more often than wrong, I'm sure.

But the reality, no one wants to be wrong. And when evidence proves that they're wrong, the most common behavior is to double down on wrong. Friend, anyone that needs an example, go to last week's episode with Norm from the Church of Christ.

And when we went through scripture, I mean, you saw him just double down on wrong. Even when the evidence was right there in front of him, it's like... Yeah, exactly. No, we're going to find baptism where it isn't, that baptism saves.

This is the behavior we see with many people. So I want to put this as an appeal to anyone that may be charismatic listening, maybe in word of faith. Just understand that what we're going to say, I know, I understand you're saying this couldn't be me.

But the statistics, and I'm going to give you the statistics that come from the word of faith, you know, prophets, they claim to be right 85 of the time. So that means 15 of the time they should be stoned to death according to scripture.

Right? That's the thing. The fact that these guys who are not believers can do the same things that these word of faith guys can do, it's no different than if you guys have seen Justin Peters, when he does his Clouds Without Water seminar that he does.

And if you haven't seen that, well, go to justinpeters .org and get Clouds Without Water and watch the series. But one of the things he does, he'll ask, actually, I'll let you do it, Justin. You have a group of people, you have a slide, you describe different things that happen with a group of people.

And you ask the people, who is this group? And everyone always says charismatics, and it's someone else.

Yeah, I give a list of behaviors that are commonly associated with the Pentecostal charismatic movement. Speaking in tongues, being slain in the spirit, prophesying, claiming physical healings. There's another one.

But anyway, yeah, so I'll list these behaviors. What's that? The falling down and shaking. Yeah, yeah, erratic jerking and shaking, uncontrollable laughter is what I was looking for. So uncontrollable laughter, being slain in spirit, healing, speaking in tongues, all this stuff.

And I ask people, what group, what theological group do you automatically think of when you see these behaviors? And people always say Pentecostal charismatic. And then I put up the graphic, Hindus. Hindus.

Hindus do the exact same things that charismatics do, and they do them in the exact same way. And Stephen can testify to this as well. I know he's done some work on this as well. You see the exact same behavior in Kundalini, Hindu Kundalini, that you see in the charismatic movement.

Exactly the same. You cannot tell the difference. They look exactly alike. And so that shows that just because someone is exhibiting one or more of these behaviors is not an indication that that ability is coming from God.

Pagans do it too. And they do it in the exact same way.

It's one of the questions I often ask people is what group is, before 1905, what group was known for speaking in tongues, prophesying, and having ecstatic experiences? Answer? Shakers. Mormons. Oh, there's another group.

Yeah, Mormons too. Mormons. Mormons and the Shakers. Yeah, that's very common. Steve Kozar and Daniel, is his name Daniel? Daniel Long? Yep. Yeah, they've done a number of videos that I have found very helpful.

He goes to, is it newspapers .com, Steve, that y 'all go to? So newspapers .com. And you can look up old, old, old newspapers, and there's screenshots, photocopies. And the charismatic generals, you know, what Roberts Lierden has described as God's generals.

Catherine Kuhlman, Amy Simple McPherson, William Branham, A .A. Allen, John Alexander Dowie, Charles Parham. You know, these guys were absolute frauds and charlatans and hucksters, and many, many people died under their quote-unquote care.

I mean, the history of the charismatic movement is just horrible. I mean, absolutely horrible. And they were immoral. They were sexually immoral. And like seven of them all claimed to be Elijah. I mean, about the only well-known charismatic leaders who did not claim to be Elijah were the women.

I guess that was a little bit too much of a stretch for them, I suppose. So all the guys did. I mean, so anyway, Steve, you can.

Yeah, I did an interview with Barry Morton, who is a professor at Indiana University. And he has the primary article that's gotten big on Wikipedia and is being referenced a lot about John G. Lake. Yes, John G. Lake.

And John G. Lake was a absolute fraud. He was a con artist. Yep. And the crazy thing is you just, you know, Andrew, like you said in the beginning, you just keep repeating something over and over again.

And people just assume it must be true. So John G. Lake keeps being described as this great healer who did all these great things. But the only evidence of those great things is the books that he wrote about himself and the stories that he told about himself.

That's really the case with all these early Pentecostal leaders. But the actual evidence, you know, what the newspapers reported is completely different. They were very controversial in their day. John G. Lake and the guy before him, who really is the grandfather of all of them, the names are confusing, John Alexander Dowie.

Daniel and I both are going to, Lord willing, get a book published in the next year or so. And trying to kind of paint the picture of what's really the core of these people. What's really going on? Who were they?

What did they actually do according to the historical records? And then when they said, on this day I was here and on that day I was there, what does the actual historical record say? For instance, John G. Lake claimed that he was on the Chicago Board of Trade.

That he was a multi-millionaire business owner. And he had this huge salary and he gave it all up and he gave all the money away. And then he needed to ask for money immediately thereafter for the rest of his ministry.

But there's no evidence. The Chicago Board of Trade has records and his name is not there. There's certain things that you can just prove didn't happen. It's just a story. So, yeah, it's a really interesting topic.

But unfortunately, on YouTube, if you say, John G. Lake was really bad, just some name from 100 years ago. Everybody's like, I'll watch that later. But if you say Benny Hinn is a fraud or some really famous current person, that's where people get all excited and you can get some traction.

But the level of interest or the attention span is incredibly short for most. And I'm going to paint with a broad brush. But in the charismatic world, it's worse than it is in the broad evangelical world, which is actually pretty bad to begin with.

Are you going to take each one of God's generals and do a refutation? Because I think that would be fantastic.

We talked about it. I started a series of articles, which seemed like a better idea because there's just so much information. The thing that we found is that between Dowie and John G. Lake and Charles Fox Parham and the one they all don't want you to know about, Frank Sanford.

He was a notorious convicted murderer, cult leader. And there is absolute evidence that speaking in tongues actually started with him. And Parham took that idea and brought it out in the Topeka thing, the so-called revival at his tiny little dinky Bible school with like a half dozen single women.

And then that idea got carried through Seymour to the Azusa Street revival. But it starts with absolute fraud, cult leader murderers. And I'm saying actual murderers, not figurative. Frank Sanford was in jail.

Right.

Actual murderers. Yes. They would abuse. Some of these guys had massive followings and they had compounds. Dowie did. Sanford did. Parham did. And was it Dowie? Yeah. Dowie was in Zion, Illinois.

I was actually just there a few months ago. I've got video footage. I'm actually hoping to do some videos where we go there and we talk about it. It's an amazing story. If I was a non-Christian documentary filmmaker, I would grab this story and I would get the biggest budget I could.

And I would make a full-length documentary film because it's like everything that people don't like about whatever popular figure. Take Donald Trump. If you think he's too over the top, he says things where he should have kind of thought about it first.

Dowie is that times a thousand. Times a thousand.

Times a thousand. At least Donald Trump never claimed to be Elijah. Yes.

And it's all just covered up. And we have a couple of paragraphs about him maybe that people go, oh, yeah, I guess he was a great healer. And the thing that also really bothers me, and I'm going on a rant here, but everybody's supposed to feel guilty because they're not doing all the stuff that these guys supposedly did.

And that's one of the things, Steve, where you just hit on is that what this does to the average charismatic church member is they see these guys and it's like, well, I'm not doing that. I don't have that experience.

It must be something. I'm not spiritual enough for that. And so they're always looking for a greater and greater experience to be able to say, well, see, now I'm more spiritual like that person. And yet what they don't realize is those people aren't actually having those experiences.

They're being faked for the sake of gathering money.

It's a great way to kill a person's faith, because if you're in a faith environment that keeps promising you God's going to do all these things. And I know it's true because I'm going to tell you about it from this stage with this authority.

I'm the famous person. I came in from out of town. I've got books. I've got TV shows. I must know what I'm talking about. In that environment, again, it's a closed circle of ideas. You believe all that stuff.

And so it's so hard to break through that closed world and kind of pop the bubble. And so some of the videos and some of the things that I've done are maybe a little too harsh at times or a little too sarcastic.

I'm always trying to think of how can I force people to look at something and see it fresh for the first time because it's right there in front of them. They're going to church. They're hearing these things week after week.

And we can't go into each church and get on stage and say, stop, even though we wish we could. Thankfully, YouTube gives us a lot of options.

The Difference Between Real Miracles and Faith-Healing Tricks

I'm going to pull up a question here for you guys because Mike asked a really good question. I'm going to pull this up for you. Mike Smith said, what is the difference between a faith healer and a person doing miracles?

And that's a really good question, I think, because we want to make sure that we define our terms and then we explain what's going on with this.

One of the biggest ways that a hyper charismatic faith healer type will gain continued support and hold on to his people is by saying those people are against the Holy Spirit. Those people don't believe in healing.

They don't think that God answers prayer anymore. So it's this false dichotomy between the people that always have healing and the Holy Spirit's doing all sorts of amazing stuff. And if you're not in favor of them, you must be this complete opposite, which is just not true.

OK, well, let's follow on that question. And I guess, Justin, both you guys need to really jump in here on this question. Let's follow up on that and say, are miracles still for today? And does God still work miracles, the healing and all those special miracles that we see?

Yes. OK, so yes, God does still perform miracles today. No, there are no more miracle workers today. Yes, God still does physically heal people today. No, there are no faith healers today. There is no one today who possesses the gift of healing.