Response to The Urban Perspective on Dr. James White (part 4)

Why I Care About This Review and the Question of White Supremacy

Hi, my name is Adam Robles and I wanted to continue with my review of the Urban Perspectives video Responding to Dr. James White and I wanted to start this video right where we left off. But before I get into that I wanted to sort of explain why I'm interested in this so much and why I care about this so much you know, I as a as a Minority a Hispanic Latino, whatever you want to call it. I I feel like that There's a lot of time wasted Worrying about and planning against this idea of white supremacy and Rampant sort of racism systemic racism that I don't think actually exists.

And so if it doesn't exist if I'm right all of the time that people spend thinking about it. And arguing for arguing against it and all that all that time is wasted time. And so I think that as a minority who's kind of already behind the eight ball, you know, we don't have quite as much capital as The majority culture does you know white people have been around in the United States, you know owning property and building businesses for a lot longer than Hispanics have and Black people like likewise are in a similar sort of situation where they're behind the eight ball.

And so my thing is I want black and brown people to be as competitive as possible. And I think that there are lots of things that we can do to be competitive with. You know white people who have a lot more capital and who have a lot more established Institutions and things like that and so that's what I want to see people spending time talking about and planning for and I think that this whole idea of this white supremacist boogeyman that is out there really only holds us back.

And so that's why I care about this. I think that you know these two brothers in this video. They're sincere. I think that they have the right motivations. But I think they're they're just wrong about a lot of their Conclusions and so because of that they end up wasting a lot of time and you know.

People who share their their viewpoints end up wasting a lot of time that that could be otherwise spent becoming more competitive. And that's kind of what I that's my whole point. That's why I care about this.

I think that the Bible gives everyone principles not only Hispanics and blacks but also white people principles that we can apply to their lives that Help your situation that puts you in a situation where you can be competitive and you can have success.

You know, not only financially but just you know as a culture as a family and so that's why that's why I care about this. And so I hope that you kind of can hear that coming through and some of my responses to this.

Authority, Personal Responsibility, and the Michael Brown Example

So let's pick up right where we left off in the video. This is right around minute 38.

We enter in immediately go to authority. Well if he hadn't been doing the crime. See, that's that's language of authority and I'm not seeing that that we throw because you gotta have both of them working together.

You you see.

Yes, definitely, I'm glad to see that he Makes the point pastor James White there makes the point that you cannot throw away. The authority and also personal responsibility to see here's the thing I think you know, we in the last video we took we talked a little bit about some of the specific situations that Pastor James White brings up, you know brings up Eric Garner.

He brings up Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin. And so that's the whole point though. I think that we need to have this balance and frankly, you know. These two pastors don't see the balance. When a lot of white evangelicals talk about this issue and to be perfectly honest, I don't see the balance when these two brothers talk about the issue because you know, well, you know, well someone who responds Hey, you know, you shouldn't have done the crime and so you paid for it with your life.

That's a stupid response, right? Because You know Selling Lucy cigarettes is not a good reason to be having an interaction with a cop right. And you know strong-arm robbery, you know, this is what Michael Brown was doing or had done rather.

That's not a good reason to die. So nobody should say that that you know, he shouldn't have done that if he didn't want to die. But at the same time you need to consider the Fact that this was a criminal right?

This was someone who had just done a crime and so potentially there could have been some circumstances in that police interaction that led to. What happened to that to to Michael Brown being shot? I'm not saying that you know, strong-arm robbery deserves death because it doesn't.

Objectively, the Bible doesn't say that robbery the death the death penalty is valid for robbery. But at the same time you it's it's something that consider because right now it's just you know A couple people's word versus a couple people's word and we need to sort of weigh the evidence.

Is there enough evidence to say that was a murder? I Don't think so. I don't think a jury thought so so, you know, we need balance here. Yeah, you know, that's a stupid reason to say he should have Michael Brown shouldn't have died for his crime.

But it is something to consider when determining whether or not a crime happened, right? And so we need to have that balance on both sides, but I appreciate the pastor mentioning that because I agree.

Jesus Washing Feet as a Model of Vulnerability and Service

This Jesus. Jesus again, he he has authority, but he has vulnerability. John 13. Yeah, he doesn't lose his authority, but he moves to a place of vulnerability. But he takes off his garment. He puts on a towel.

He even in the act of doing that with his disciples He's very vulnerable here to unclothe himself. Put on a towel. So we go to Washington. Feet. But even the very act Jesus is moving from authority to vulnerability and then Jesus is engaging His disciples who would deny him who would betray him and he's washing feet.

And what does he tell us you ought to watch one another's feet? What do we do rather than us washing the feet of Mike Brown? Whether than us washing the feet of those who are saying look we have no authority of those in black.

We end up trying to place more authority rather than going in and serving. And what is the serving look like for many times? But us who are whites and white Christians is. It means I'm willing to be vulnerable to hear without defense.

Hey.

Interesting right so He talks about being willing to sort of wash the feet of people who are vulnerable. He even says to wash the feet of Mike Brown and I wish he would have explained what he meant by that because I don't I don't I'm not really sure what he means by that Because Jesus did serve people and And love people who would betray him right who would do him wrong.

You know Jesus washes the feet of these disciples who would deny him who would do him dirty, right? So that does happen. We need to recognize that but one thing he never does not even for an instant is lower his standard.

Right, so whether or not it's his friend whether or not it's somebody vulnerable whether or not it's somebody in power his standard is holiness and So what doesn't matter who is the one sinning? He never lowers his standard.

And so when we approach the Mike Brown situation We need to have Evidence two or three witnesses, you know, and that's that's you know, in my opinion, that's not Saying you need to have two or three eyewitnesses to every event before you can establish the truth I think rather that's establishing a principle that you need to have Solid evidence you need to have corroborating evidence that a crime happened before you can go and execute judgment, right?

And so Unless you're going to say that there was Specific evidence that said that a murder occurred in the Mike Brown situation And that there was no evidence to the contrary that it wasn't a justified killing.

You know, but you know a jury tried the case and determined that was not the case. And so Unless you're gonna say that that it was complete miscarriage of justice that there was all this evidence and it was just ignored and not Only that we also have evidence that it was a racist a racially motivated killing.

Um, I don't see how you can You know hold anyone Accountable to say, you know, you just don't care about this. You just decided to ignore this you weren't washing the feet of Michael Brown. Because you know on the one hand, we you know, we would want to serve someone like Michael Brown.

We would want to love them. But the same at the same time we need to take after Jesus and we do not lower our standard Of responsibility personal responsibility won't lower our standard of justice. Just because a group or a person is vulnerable, right so you know, it's an interesting kind of commentary and I think I agree with him to a point, but I'm not sure if I agree with this complete application.

Listening to Pain Without Agreeing With Every Argument

Hey, I'm willing to listen to your tears. Even though there may be some thoughts and ideas.

That may be wrong. I'm also glad to hear him say that because Yeah, I agree, you know, we we have to be willing to listen to someone's pain. And I'm gonna be reviewing an article that talks about it's an article called Why white churches are hard for black people?

I think that's the title. Yes. It was it was put out by nine marks and You know, I don't agree with the article. I don't think it's a good article, right? So I love this video, but this article is an example of something that I think is completely unhelpful and But the point is that you want to read articles like that and you want to take them seriously and listen to their pain.

But as the pastor said right there, even though knowing that some of their point some of their arguments Might not be correct Pastor here says seems to think that this is a problem with white evangelicals.

I don't I Never come across, you know people white people or otherwise that say, you know, I don't want to hear you out I don't even want to hear it. It was wrong. You know, I I don't come across that I I do come across people who say okay.

I've heard but I don't agree you say that there's this rampant Racism problem. I just don't agree. You say that a lot of people out there are white supremacists and it's just so common and it's subtle but it's very common.

I Don't agree. I see very few white supremacists out there and they typically are pretty stupid. You know, they're the ones that dress up. They may go LARPing. They look like, you know ghosts and white sheets, you know, this is not common, right?

So I don't I I hear this brother I do but at the same time, you know I don't see a whole lot of what he's talking about where people are just unwilling to listen I see the opposite. I see people willing being willing to listen but not agreeing.

I'm willing to engage but not just from authority if I got all the answers. Here's why this happened, but we're willing to be.

Total Depravity and the Possibility of Sin in Policing

That's that's that's a brilliant response, you know, what. One of the things that amazes me are the hermeneutical and exegetical gymnastics that Evangelicals play when it comes to topics like this, you know, you know him and others are.

He did another video where he said it's it's hard To being a Calvinist. Well Calvinists go by the tulip model, you know. Total depravity. Unconditional election limited atonement. Irresistible grace and perseverance of the Saints.

The T is total depravity. Total would mean all right, right. So if if we embrace the concept and the biblical reality based on Genesis 3 of total depravity Why would we limit that total depravity can come out in the form of a white man in a blue uniform with a gun?

We don't.

We just simply don't You know pastor James, er, sorry, dr. James white the the white James white He doesn't limit that in that way he would not say that Told that that a that a police officer a white police officer Couldn't be sinful in that way.

He wouldn't say that. But there's a difference between admitting that a white police officer could be racist or could Display his depravity in that way and Then saying that he did. Right. So this is this is interesting because it's almost like saying well if you believe in total depravity Then you have to believe every single claim of depravity that's out there and that's not what total depravity says.

And also here's the other thing total depravity doesn't mean that people are as bad as they could be because Calvinists especially believe that God restrains evil all the time. So people aren't as bad as they could be but every area of Humanity every area of a person's moral Makeup is affected by sin.

That doesn't mean that at any given time You're being as sinful as you possibly could be so You know, it's it's I'm not sure who he's making this point to you know, pastor James white or I'm sorry Dr. James white would not deny that it's possible that a white police officer could Manifest sin in this way.

But that's a very you can't just go from he could be doing this to he's definitely doing it. We need to need to have evidence that this is the case. We can't just assume that it's the case. So good point, I guess but I don't know who it's really a point for.

I don't know anyone who would argue that it's not Possible for a white cop to be racist or to act in this way. I don't know anyone who would say that so Not really sure who that is an argument for.

Police Brutality, Social Justice, and Acts 16

If we embrace this idea of total depravity, then we have to understand that police brutality. It's not the only issue. But it is an issue.

It is an issue, but it's a very minor issue so I Think that again, this is the whole point, you know, nobody denies that police brutality happens. Nobody denies that it could be racially motivated. Nobody denies that police are perfect.

See, I feel like I'm in a really good spot here to talk about this because in general I don't support American policing. I think that it is a lot of times overly oppressive. There are a lot of laws that are out there that have nothing to do with public safety.

They're just revenue generators and police officers are you know collecting on that? So, you know, I'm not a pro. You know police officer person in general. But you know again, this is this is the whole this is the whole argument it does happen.

But is it a rampant problem? Is it something that we need to spend all of this time all of this money all of this energy worrying about and. The statistics say that it isn't. So if you spend all of your time worrying about something that is so unlikely to happen.

The question is whose problem is that right? It's not it doesn't seem reasonable to me to worry about something that is very unlikely to happen to you.

But that's just me then even exegetically when we look at act 16 It would appear that Paul was a victim of police brutality himself at 1619. They don't find out later that he has dual citizenship after the slave girl is free and then her owner see that their chance of gain is gone.

A Crowd comes and about says the magistrates which can be translated into police. They join in beating Paul who now pastor white. Paul's response wasn't this isn't a gospel issue. Paul's response was when they tried to let him go silently.

He said no you beat me publicly and some of the police beat him. Yes, and he demanded an apology. So what why do you think? So that's scripture. Why do you think we avoid? Even the biblical reality that the gospel is not social justice.

But the outpouring of it that the gospel itself isn't social justice. But it's a message of justice to spiritually oppressed people whom by grace through faith are set free in Christ. Why do we want to label what the gospel sees as normative and that's confronting injustice?

Why do we label that liberal? Why?

Justice, the Gospel, and the Charge of Politicizing Scripture

Yeah, I'll let the pastor respond to that question, but I'll tell you how I would respond and My response is he's right on he's right on one of the worst. Arguments against this kind of a presentation is.

You can even go to the video on YouTube and you'll see this in the comments. So a number of people actually use this and I think this is a horrible response. People say this is not the main issue. This is not a gospel issue.

People will say we got to keep the main thing the main thing. And I'm sorry that that's just a very shallow very Stupid response to this kind of a presentation because He's right. He's right on you know, Paul doesn't say oh, this is not important.

This is not the gospel. So, you know You beat me. It's all good. He doesn't say that no, he actually talks about you know, he demands justice. He demands an apology and all of that kind of thing. And I think that that's that's exactly right and there's definitely application we can make to today, you know, we should pursue Justice we should pursue social justice.

And the reason why we should do it is because God cares about it, you know God In in his law lays out what social justice looks like he cares about it. He insists on it. He even punishes nations for not Being just so these are issues that Christians should care about but the question is what is social justice, right?

Because I of course will I will agree with with the pastor on that point but I will disagree with him on what does what social justice is right because he's thinking that it's these issues of Racism and discrimination and things like that and I don't think that those are really that big of it.

I mean, I don't think those are big problems today. So where they do exist, we would want to confront them. But I think that a lot of places where these two brothers would say it exists. I don't think it actually exists.

So If you are white or if even if you're not and Your response to a possession presentation like this is you know, it's not this is not a gospel issue. Please stop using that argument. It's a dumb argument.

It doesn't make any sense and so Let's listen to see how pastor James might respond. How do we politicize?

Biblical reality. Pastor that's interesting you say that because I I I almost would guarantee that even Even the way you use that passage of the Apostle Paul. There's some who will hear that and will say well, wait a minute.

You you've made a connection there that I'm not sure in that time period. That Paul would have made that connection. Well, wait a minute you you have taken that interpretation Of what Paul did but the police system the government the structure in America is very different.

Than what happened at that time? So there's some who will hear that and say I'm not sure you can make that kind of jumping interpretation now. Here's what's confusing. They would say that about you and your hermeneutic and your exegesis of that text and make that interpretation but that same group of people refuse To really take a look and be honest about Total depravity when it came to slaveholders.

That same group of people would question your interpretation. Yeah, what will not admit that. It was horrific that Jonathan Edwards was a slaveholder. It was horrific that church fathers. Yeah own Slaves and they say well, but no they were a product of their times and you got to be very.

That's all we see when we talk about total depravity. Absolutely, if you really believe in total depravity then we would be able to own the full scope of the impact of 200 years of saying that a people group are not even human and we would be able to look at people who we read Scholars church fathers Reformers, etc.

And look at that even country's founding fathers and say they literally thought that people were not human. They literally that we had the church that was silent because even when the slave trade ended in the early 1800s the u .s. Continued having more slaves than ever before because now they were breeding slaves.

Interpreting Paul, Historical Context, and Reformed Heroes

Yeah, I think that was well said I Think that what one kind of quibble I would have with with with his prep what we said there is. You know, I don't want to I don't know if we want to play this game of you know.

Yeah, you don't like my interpretation, but then I don't like your interpretation. And so we're kind of even The question isn't you know, who's it who's? You know got bad interpretations or not. The question is the interpretation themselves.

Is it is it correct? Is it a proper application? So, you know my opinion is that that this brother's application of of What Paul did there is pretty good. I mean, I think we need to consider what Paul did what by appealing to the magistrate after being beaten by the police.

And we need to look at that and say okay Well what situations when we get accosted or when we get abused are we in a position to sort of you know? You know appeal to Another civil governing authority.

I think that some people would say you're never in a position to appeal to civil governing authorities. I think that's incorrect, you know. So, you know, I Like what he said there I mean we need to be honest with the fact that you know Some of our heroes of the faith faith were wrong about things, right?

I see a lot of this in reformed circles, too there's a idea that sort of the older the the older a book is or a theologian is the more correct that they were so like anything new is looked at with suspicion and You know in some ways That's a good principle.

Sometimes if there's a new doctrine, right? You probably want to immediately be suspicious of it. You know anything that's a new from a doctrine perspective is kind of like All right. Well, why has nobody thought of this before right but at the same time we've got to think of cultural context because there are cultural issues now that were around back then and so there can be new applications and new insights of previous doctrines that That could come up and so we want to embrace those we want to you know Be critical be a Berean with it, but we shouldn't just look at something.

That's new as something that's suspicious or Automatically wrong and that's this is a common thing in reformed circles. I think so I think you know pastors right on there. But anyway, I'm gonna do one more video.

Speaking to Black People and Reconsidering the Final Section

There's a section at the end Where Pastor James White is speaking directly to black people. But there are some applications that that I can make even if you're not black and you're listening to this That I think are interesting.

But and the other thing too about this section is the last section at first when I first heard it. I hated it I was like Oh Pastor why why are you saying this? This is awful, but I actually I think I misunderstood him.

So I don't hate it anymore. I actually like it. Although there are some There are some responses that I have to it. So anyway, we'll see in the next video.