WWUTT 1245 Q&A California Bans Singing, Michael Heiser's Spirituality, Eating Bloody Meat?

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What new law has California enacted against Christians this time? What do we need to know about the

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Divine Council, Michael Heiser, in the Bible Project? And can we eat meat with blood in it?

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The answer is when we understand the text. This is

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When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible study in the Word of Christ. That having been foreknown by God, we have been predestined to be shaped in the image of His Son.

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Tell your friends about our website at www .tt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Our hearts go out to our California listeners.

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Amen. Oh, have you heard about this? No. I think even saying it though, by this point, by the time the broadcast is hitting,

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Yeah. even saying our hearts go out to our California listeners, there's probably quite a few listeners going, Oh, no kidding.

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Yeah. California, what in the world? Again. Because you've probably heard about this. Singing in houses of worship banned under new order from Governor Newsom as pandemic worsens.

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You are not allowed to sing in church under this California statute. Californians are still free to attend their house of worship, but they're forbidden from singing or chanting.

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According to this article in the Sacramento Bee, updated COVID -19 guidelines issued

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Wednesday by the State Department of Public Health, require churches and other houses of worship to discontinue singing and chanting activities.

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In previously allowing religious organizations to reopen in late May, the state merely said these institutions should strongly consider discontinuing singing, group recitation, and other practices and performances.

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Health agencies, such as the Federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, say shouting or singing can spread the coronavirus just as easily as coughing or sneezing.

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Hang on a second. So we're saying that these people are singing like how they sneeze.

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I don't know. Some people singing probably does sound like a sneeze. I mean, if we're doing opera, sure, but just singing in church.

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You're meaning like the force of air that you're using. Yes, the amount of force that it takes to carry.

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Anyway, I just don't even want to talk about it because it's so gross. If we were still using hymnals, your face would be down in the hymnal and all of it would be going there in the book anyway.

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Right, and you can even take that home with you. That's right. Take your own germs home. Close up that hymnal and you've contained your

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COVID -19 right there in the pages. Use the same one every week. That's right. That's your COVID -19. That's right. Don't share it with anybody else.

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So the article goes on here. California's Health Department agrees and as Governor Gavin Newsom begins tightening protocols during a resurgence of the pandemic, it now says singing and chanting are outright banned.

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Activities such as singing and chanting negate the risk reduction achieved through six feet of physical distancing, the state said in its new guidelines.

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Houses of worship are now being told to have masks available for congregants who don't bring one.

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So you have to wear your mask and you cannot sing. It says that they have to wear a mask?

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Yeah. Houses of worship are now being told to have masks available. Have masks available.

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Yeah, they have to wear masks. They have to. Yes, they have to wear masks. Okay. So you have to wear your mask and you can't sing.

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Masking doesn't mean, well, okay, as long as you're wearing your mask, you can sing. No, you can't even do that.

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So according to the law of Kansas, if you're doing something illegal, you can't wear a mask.

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Say what? So if you're doing something illegal, you are not allowed to wear a mask.

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Okay. Because that's the exception, that's the exempt. Oh, I see.

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So if they sing, they don't have to wear masks. See where I'm going with this?

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Okay, right, because they're doing something illegal anyway. But I mean, I don't know if that still pertains to California, but that would be interesting to look that up.

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Yes, here in the state of Kansas, our own Democrat governor, who's from New York City, and somehow got elected the governor of the state of Kansas.

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She has issued an executive order requiring Kansans to wear masks, but the county that we live in, where our church is located in, has exempted its citizens from having to obey that particular executive order.

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So that's not an effect where we are. We've had very, very low numbers of COVID -19 anyway.

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I think there's been one death, something like 17 hospitalizations or something like that.

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Yeah. I don't even remember. It's really low. I thought it was two, but... Yeah, that could be. That was...

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Anyway, so we're just not that high risk where we are. No. Not saying that COVID -19 isn't serious, and it's not something...

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Definitely not. I'm definitely not saying that. Let me finish my sentence. Yeah, where are we going here?

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We understand COVID -19 is serious. Yes. So wherever it is the greatest threat, precautions are necessary.

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Yes. But what about this? What about what is being said here by the governor of California to churches that we're going to ban your singing?

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You cannot sing if you go to church. Should we obey that or not?

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Let's turn to Daniel chapter 6. It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps to be throughout the whole kingdom and over them three high officials of whom

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Daniel was one to whom these satraps should give account so that the king might suffer no loss.

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Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps because an excellent spirit was in him and the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom.

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Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault because he was faithful and no error or fault was found in him.

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Then these men said we shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his

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God. So we as Christians need to conduct ourselves as quite simply law -abiding citizens.

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Yeah, of course. Just as Daniel conducted himself even in a a country to whom the

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Israelites had been exiled. He was under captivity of this nation and yet conducted himself in such a way that he kept the law.

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They couldn't even find Daniel in trouble with any of the laws. That's amazing in order to find some fault in him.

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They were going to have to find it in connection with the law of his God. So they knew hey, we've got to get together and we've got to come up with something that we know is against the law of his

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God so that he has no choice but to follow the law of his God. Then he's going to be against our law and then we can get him in trouble for something.

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Right. Now I'm not saying that that's what Governor Newsom and the government of California is doing but there are evil spirits and principalities that are guiding these particular things to be against God's people.

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Would we be in violation of God's law if we were to comply with this order that's been given by the state of California to not sing?

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Consider what is said in the scriptures in Ephesians chapter 5 verse 19.

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Address one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs singing and making melody to the

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Lord with your heart giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our

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Lord Jesus Christ submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. We have the same instruction in Colossians 3 16 that we're to address one another in songs and hymns and spiritual psalms singing and making melody from your heart unto

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God. So this is an instruction that has been given to the church. It's part of what we do when we gather as a church.

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Yeah, we sing praises to God together. Yes, so I would really part of corporate worship.

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That's right. I honestly I would tell a church sing sing your hearts out. Yeah, because how did

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Daniel respond to what happens in this particular story in Daniel 6? Yeah, I think you know where this goes.

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Yeah, then these high officials and satraps came by agreement to the king and said to him

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Oh King Darius live forever all the high officials of the kingdom the prefects and the satraps the counselors the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction that whoever makes petition to any

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God or man for 30 days except to you Oh King shall be cast into the den of lions.

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Now Oh King establish the injunction and sign the document so that it cannot be changed according to the law of the

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Medes and the Persians which cannot be revoked. Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction when

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Daniel knew that the document had been signed. He went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open them toward Jerusalem and he got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his

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God as he had done previously. So this wasn't even a sort of a thing where Daniel was going.

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I'm still going to pray but I'll do it in a part of my house where nobody can see me. He goes to his window.

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He opens it up and he prayed toward Jerusalem, which had always been his custom

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Daniel did not change a thing. Yeah, and I think that we as Christians when these kinds of things are being said by our governments.

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We must act in the same way. We're not changing a thing. Yeah, what

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God has instructed us to do as a church. That's what we are going to do and may you have the courage like the

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Apostles did to stand before the officials of the Jewish temples and synagogues and say to them what you think that you need to do then do it, but we cannot go against what we have seen and heard from the

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Lord our God. As a law -abiding citizen, it is tough for me to distinguish where do you stop following the law and start following, you know, keep following God and his law.

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Yeah, the state's law versus God's law. Because I mean just everywhere around us is constantly the state's law, not

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God's law, you know, and we have to surround ourselves with God's law on purpose in order to make that louder than what's being bombarded around us.

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Does that make sense? Well, yeah, I think and even with what you're saying there, I think a lot of, unfortunately, church leaders are telling us more on the side of we need to obey the state more than I hear a lot of evangelical leaders saying we need to obey

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God first and foremost. Right. It's really odd. It's odd how the church in America has so easily given into these demands that are being handed down by our government.

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And once again, I'm not saying don't take COVID -19 seriously. Right. It's a serious and deadly disease that has been confirmed.

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Right. Doesn't matter what you think about conspiracies or numbers being inflated, whatever. We know that COVID -19 is deadly.

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Yes. It can kill somebody. So we need to take the necessary precautions knowing how it spreads.

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But I think within reason that we don't go against what

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God's word says, especially if we're being told that masks are actually going to help prevent the spread of this disease.

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But then at the same time saying you can wear your mask, you just can't sing. That's completely inconsistent and it looks like it really looks like the government of California in particular is specifically targeting churches.

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Yeah, and they would have to with this particular law because who else is actually getting out and singing and we've seen over and over again, especially within the last month, groups of people, massive crowds getting out in public and joining in Black Lives Matter protests and LGBTQ pride parades.

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Nobody's getting arrested, but it's when we gather for church that the government is saying, nope, can't do that.

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And if you do that, you could get arrested. We're going to shut down your church, right? What was it? Bill de Blasio said, he said the mayor of New York said something to the degree that if there's churches and mosques and synagogues that are gathering, we will shut you down permanently.

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Yeah, I heard that's insane. Yeah, so don't tell me that this is all about public safety and it's not targeting the church in any degree.

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Yes, it is. It's just masked as public concern, but these are absolutely laws that are targeting the church.

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We know what happened to Daniel. He got arrested, thrown into the lion's den, but the Lord shut the mouths of the lions and delivered

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Daniel and that's where we are. We've got the devil prowling around like a roaring lion as it says in in first Peter 5 seeking for somebody to devour resist him firm in your faith.

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So even though the devil is going to use people to issue these kinds of things who are going to who are we going to be faithful to we have to be faithful to our

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God and what he has said and all of this in honor and glory of Christ.

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This is not about being a person who is a lawbreaker. Yeah, you're not seeking to be a lawbreaker.

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You're seeking to honor God, right? And we honor God with our praise even singing songs unto the

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Lord do so with gladness and be not in fear of those who are being manipulated by the devil schemes pray for those who persecute you.

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Yes, and we're praying for you citizens of California. Yes, because anyway tough it's it's tempting to like do something like I don't know singing outside before they come in and then have worship when they come in.

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I don't know that a California to even allow that well, that's what I'm saying, but it would be tempting because then it's not inside the house of worship.

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You know what? I mean, right technicalities or whatever. Well, we've been talking about the psalms of a sense

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Psalm 120 through 134. Yes, the songs that were they were singing on the way to Jerusalem.

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So yeah, there you go exactly just start singing songs on the way to So anyway,

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I don't know just on their way into the building and then once you get inside you have to quit.

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Well, it is Friday and we take questions from the listeners on Friday. And we thank you so much for listening when we understand the text at gmail .com

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is our email address. We've got a couple of care packages this past week. We have it's very exciting to listeners from two different places two different countries, two different countries, not even the

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United States. We got one from Trinidad and Tobago and another one from Canada.

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Yes, that's fantastic. Yeah, so we haven't opened the Canadian package yet.

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Is it Thunder Bay Thunder Bay Canada Thunder Bay Canada Thunder Thunder Bay?

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I don't believe I've heard of Thunder Bay Canada. I didn't know Canada was known enough for Thunder or for Ontario.

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Okay, it's but yeah, it's in it's in Ontario, right? Thunder Bay Ontario Canada. Okay, is it a bay?

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Yeah. Oh, yeah, there it is a bay. Just making sure it wasn't those one of those towns called Bay and it's not really a bay.

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I know, right? It doesn't make any sense. Not even really Thunder there. Yeah. No, it's on Lake Superior Lake Superior.

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Okay. Yeah, they probably have they probably get some thunderstorms there. Yeah, I don't know why they would call it Thunder Bay. Anyway, but yes yesterday, thank you for the package.

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We have not opened it yet. But we did open the one from Trinidad and Tobago. Oh, you opened it.

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Becky opened it without me great. No, no, no, I didn't. I didn't. Okay, so I looked through it, but I didn't are there are there ketchup potato chips in it?

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No, that's what Jr. Sent us last night, right? Ketchup flavored potato chips. No, these are all yummy goodies.

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These are all chocolate and I got some coffee. Okay. So are we going to sample this on the broadcast next week?

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Like we did the food from Australia? Okay, so we're saving it till next week. It was all melty.

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So I had to I had to fridge it. Yeah, refrigerate it. It's it's in the coldest room in our house, which is the laundry room.

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Yeah, because temperatures right now in Kansas are a hundred degrees. So yeah, all the food got to us melted.

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Yeah, well, we're going to try that though. We're going to do that on the broadcast next week. The food that came to us or the the treats and goodies that came from Trinidad and Tobago or not anything that we could eat on Spices.

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Yeah, and I've already used them in some of my chicken. Yeah. So thank you so much. It was it was good.

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There's some masala and some jerk seasoning and yeah,

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I use the jerk seasoning on the chicken and I made some Caribbean rice and some green beans to go with that.

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Roasted green beans. Man, it was good food. Thanks for those spices. It was amazing. Oh, and we got the the plaque with the hooks on it from them.

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That's right. Yeah, that was really pretty. So thank you for that gift. We had already marked on our map though that we had a listener from Trinidad and Tobago.

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So that's that's already marked on our map, but the goodies from Canada too. We'll tap into those next week.

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Yes. Let's see. Where was I going next year? We've got well questions. That's where we need to go. That was our care packages.

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So send your questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com. Oh to the fellow from Australia that's been sending me letters.

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I left him upstairs. I didn't grab his name. Anyway, thank you for sending those letters. I'm sorry. I haven't responded any of those yet because they come via snail mail.

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Oh, he sends them to me in large envelopes, but he included his email address. So I've got to also got to respond back with thanks for those letters as well.

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You can also send us letters through the mail. Yes. Our church address is 1220 West 8th Street Junction City, Kansas 66441 and if you would consider a donation to the ministry, you can sit it there as well and fill the check out to first Southern Baptist Church.

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This question right here comes from Judy and she had seen the video that I did on the

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Bible project warning about the problems with the Bible project. Dear Pastor Gabe.

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Hi first. Thank you for your site on YouTube WWU TT, which has been a blessing of resources.

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I use it all the time and share as a trustworthy ground trustworthy Source grounded in Scripture for others because of your one segment on the

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Bible project. I've been trying to do my own research into these concerns since I to have used them as well as the

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Baptist Church. I attend. I appreciate your input on the matter and it has really helped a lot and I have also drawn the same conclusions that you came to also finding out that Tim Mackey is kind of the main voice on the

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Bible project. Okay, also teaches and embraces mysticism and New Age practices with his instruction on using

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Let's go Davina and the Enneagram. I didn't know that that Tim Mackey was teaching on the

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Enneagram. I don't really keep up with a lot of what he does and after doing the research for that one video,

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I kind of wrote them off for a while wasn't watching any the Bible project stuff, which that wasn't necessarily a great strategy because once I did that video then that's what

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I was getting a bunch of emails from. Oh, have you seen that they do this? Okay, so I probably should have kept up with a little bit better Todd Freel to he would send me stuff.

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So there were listeners that would send things to him at wretched and say what's the problem with the

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Bible project and then he'd shoot it to me. So here maybe you can answer that question. Yeah, so she goes on.

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I have some other areas of concern. I'm questioning if you happen to have some time to look at it may be all fine, but I wanted to share and get your thoughts one video series that they do is on spiritual beings which held some terms that I didn't understand in addition to their videos.

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They also have study guides that go deeper and beyond what the videos do. Yeah, those study guides are the length of a book.

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They are huge. That's crazy. And I think they have a couple dozen of these. So a lot of the emails that I receive from folks that have been watching the

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Bible project no longer. Am I getting emails that are kind of asking what's the problem with the Bible project the emails that I'm getting are saying we're using their materials in our

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Sunday school classes. What's the problem with this? So it's not just I've been watching the videos on YouTube.

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They're now printing off these study guides and using them as teaching materials in their classrooms and not finding out until they get to certain chapters.

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Wait a minute. There's a problem with this folks screen your material before you teach it in your class doesn't matter who it is.

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You need to know what's in that material before you teach it. So anyway, especially yeah, definitely the the elders and teachers in the church.

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So she says here is a link to an example of the spiritual being series that they have pay close attention to the first three in the series

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Elohim and the Divine Council videos in particular. Maybe it is all fine and just terms.

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I'm not familiar with. Thank you so much for your attention to help with understanding this Sola Scriptura Judy.

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Okay, so here is let's go ahead and play this video on the

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Divine Council. Now, this is six minutes long. I'm not going to play the whole six minutes. We're going to break this up into two parts, but this is the

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Bible project video that they did on the Divine Council of God.

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Okay, here we go. For most of human history people have believed in some kind of spiritual realm that exists alongside the world as we know it right and the biblical authors are no exception.

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Yeah, for them. The spiritual realm is a different kind of realm than ours and highlight that difference.

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The Bible refers to God's space as the sky or the heavens because the sky is really different from the land.

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It's above and beyond and up. There are shiny bodies that move around. I think of these as flaming gas balls.

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But when the biblical authors looked up the stars gave them a way to talk and think about spiritual beings in the

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Bible. They're called the sons of God or the rulers and authorities or even sometimes the

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Divine Council. So that sounds really important. What does the Divine Council do? Well, they're introduced in Genesis chapter 1 where they're called the host of heaven that is the sun moon and stars and there they're also called signs meaning that their power and status symbolizes and points to God's power and status.

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Yeah, so in Genesis 1 God appoints them to rule over the day and night. Exactly. And then later in the

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Bible, we're told that they were celebrating God's power and creativity when he created the world.

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Like the cheering section of a game. Yeah, right. Now, what's the problem with that? Got any thoughts, babe?

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I have a lot. She's not a fan of Tim Mackey's voice.

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So or is it just everything? Yeah, the theology all of it.

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So so the thing about his reference to the angelic beings being created on day four of creation.

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I don't think I've ever phrased it that way before the angelic beings being created. Okay on day four of creation.

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That's not necessarily wrong. I've read from a number of scholars that have considered the same thing.

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When were the angels created? Well, it could have been on day four when God created the sun moon and stars, but understand something about the

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Bible project guys Tim Mackey and his team. They do not accept a literal reading of Genesis 1 through 11.

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So from the creation of the world to the Tower of Babel, they don't read that literally.

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It was not a an actual six -day creation. It was not an actual global flood.

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There wasn't a Tower of Babel where the entire Earth was gathered gathered and then

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God confused their languages and scattered them over the whole world. They believe these things were stories or metaphorical of some kind, but they're not this is not the literal interpretation of those texts.

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Therefore since they don't believe in a literal six -day creation that makes more sense as to what they believe right regarding the day for creation, right?

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Even though Genesis 1 14 explicitly says that the sun moon and stars are for marking time and seasons and that's exactly what we use them for.

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But in this particular video Tim Mackey is saying no, it's the it's the angels that are for signs the angels and the demons that are for signs not the sun moon and stars.

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So they reject a literal reading to the extent that though Genesis 1 14 plainly

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States that the sun moon and stars Mark seasons. They're saying no, no, no, no, that's about angelic beings, right?

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Because when you write off something in the Bible, you can write off whatever you want.

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That's right. We can interpret it. However, we want to now at the end of these videos, you'll notice that one of the script writers or one of the script supervisors.

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I think is the way that he's referenced. Okay. His name is Michael Heiser and we have we've had a few questions asked about him before he considers himself an expert on the supernatural and the paranormal.

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He also works for Logos Bible software. Okay. Yeah, so I know he's like the theologian in residence or something like that with with Logos.

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So if you've ever read much Heiser, you might notice that his niche is more on the side of speculation and myth.

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There are some things honestly that I've heard Michael Heiser say that are really good and will make you think about spiritual matters probably a little bit more than we consider thinking about most of the time.

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I think that we are get too caught up in the physical and we forget that there is a whole spiritual realm.

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It's going on around us like the instruction that Paul gives in Ephesians chapter 6 that our fight is not against flesh and blood but against the the principalities and the unseen forces in 2nd

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Corinthians chapter 10 verses 3 through 5 3 through 6 we read for though we walk in the flesh.

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We are not waging war according to the flesh for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have

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Divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God and take every thought captive to obey

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Christ being ready to punish every disobedience when your obedience is complete.

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So one of the things that Paul is illustrating there is that our fight is is against ideas that are either godly or satanic and these things are being influenced by either spirits or the

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Holy Spirit. So if you're in the Holy Spirit of God, we have a mind that is trained on the things of Christ.

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But if you are still of the flesh, then you are following the schemes and the trappings of the devil just like Paul instructed

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Timothy in 2nd Timothy chapter 2 that we correct opponents with gentleness God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth and they may escape from the snare of the devil right after being captured by him to do his will right.

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So this is one of the reasons why whenever we argue and I mean argue in the in a debate sort of a sense.

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Okay, not we're fighting and brawling with one another right when we argue we are confronting ideas.

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We're not making fun of the person or disparaging the person right plainly because whenever you attack the a person that's that's you're defeating your own argument like well.

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Yeah, they're already lost. Yeah, right. The arguments going to be lost. It's just two people duking it out and then your battle is against flesh and blood at that point, right?

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It's not against these the weapons of our warfare not should not be of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds because the weapons of our warfare are they come from the word of God.

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Mm -hmm. It is the word of God the sword of the spirit in the spiritual armor that we wear according to Ephesians chapter 6.

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So this is this is the way that we as believers need to be more mindful of our approaches to the world that there is a whole other realm that exists and we as believers should especially be conscious of this that there is a realm that we cannot see that is affecting human thought and direction and action.

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Yes. A person is either again under the influence of the spirit or under the influence of spirits like demonic evil spirits.

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So there are things that when I will watch Michael Heiser and I will watch him for critique not necessarily for learning, but whenever I'll watch

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Heiser there are ways in which he makes me think about those those things better than I typically think about them.

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Nevertheless, I don't recommend Michael Heiser for anybody and I'll explain here in a moment why he's not a good teacher and is and is actually quite a dangerous teacher.

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But here we have the first part of this video where you see evidences of the

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Bible projects rejection of a literal reading just of Genesis 1. So we continue on this is the next part of that video on the the

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Divine Council. There are also stories in the Bible where God invites the Divine Council to participate in making a decision like when they help decide how to bring down the corrupt

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Israelite King Ahab or in the book of Job where they debate God's policy of rewarding people who do good.

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So they're like God's staff team, but why does God need a team if he's powerful enough to create the whole universe?

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He could surely rule it without any help. Well, he doesn't need them, but apparently the God of the

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Bible wants to share authority with others. Oh, right. God shares his rule with human partners on earth.

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And so in the same way, there's a parallel story of God sharing his authority to rule with spiritual partners.

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Yes. Wait, what? No, Isaiah 42 8.

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I am the Lord that is my name my glory. I give to no other nor my praise to carved idols.

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Now to the Bible projects credit, maybe they mean that God works providentially through other means whether that's through people through these heavenly beings through demons.

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God works providentially to accomplish what ultimately he has decreed. I don't really think that's what they were saying.

32:07

No, I don't think that's what they mean. But if you wanted to be gracious, that's that's the way you could explain that.

32:13

Okay, there's a reason why I don't think that's what they mean and you'll find out here in just a minute because Michael Heiser does not he does not believe that God is predestined anything.

32:24

So anyway, we'll talk about that here momentarily. Yeah, continuing on here's here's the the final part of this that is until it all falls apart in a twin rebellion.

32:34

So you have humans who want to rule on earth on their own terms. So they start building their own nation using their own definitions of good and evil.

32:41

Yeah, the famous story of the building of Babylon, but check this out when biblical authors like Moses or Isaiah looked back at the origins of Babylon.

32:50

They saw more than just a human rebellion, but also a spiritual rebellion. What was this spiritual rebellion?

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Well, there were members of the Divine Council who like the humans didn't want to represent God's authority anymore.

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They wanted to be God and they rebelled. And so these created beings deceived humans into worshiping them instead of the

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Creator. And so Babylon becomes the biblical image for the combined human and spiritual rebellion.

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And so God scatters the people from Babylon into different nations. And in the book of Deuteronomy, Moses says, this is when

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God also scattered the rebels of the Divine Council with them. Now, see, this is one of the complicated things with the

33:32

Bible project because he doesn't give a reference and they never give references. Very rarely.

33:38

Do you even see or hear them quote scripture in their videos? Yeah, so you don't know where they're getting this from.

33:45

He just makes that comment there about, see, in Deuteronomy, this Moses talks about this.

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Where in the world in Deuteronomy is he talking about that? Well, you have to download their study guide, which again is the length of a book.

33:58

All of this stuff is just extremely wordy and you can't ever come to the end of whatever it is that they're talking about.

34:06

So in Deuteronomy chapter 32, you have this statement, when the most This is

34:11

Deuteronomy 32 verse 8, when the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

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But the Lord's portion is his people, Jacob, his allotted heritage.

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Now, when you have that reference there in Deuteronomy 32 8, sons of God, there are many scholars, even credible scholars that will say that that's reference to sons of God is not to Israel, but it is a reference to spiritual forces that exist in the world and those different places on earth where they govern.

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This is not unusual to consider because it's like, say, for example, in the book of Daniel, since we've read from Daniel already, there is an instance where Daniel receives a vision and he's waiting for the interpretation of that vision.

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But Gabriel is slow to get to him to give him the interpretation of that vision. And he says he was held up by the

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Prince of Persia, right? So this was a basically a demonic force in Persia that had prevented

35:21

Gabriel from getting to Daniel until Michael the Archangel came and dealt with the

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Prince of Persia so that Gabriel could get away. That's kind of an example of how the spiritual forces on earth have kind of been divided up to regions and territories that they inhabit.

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You have the demon legion, the demon's legion that Jesus encountered and they asked not to be cast out of the area, but that they would instead be cast into these pigs over here.

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So they didn't want to leave the territory that they were put in by God, who even divided them up and assigned them to the place that they were to go.

36:00

So that reference in Deuteronomy 32 8 may very well be talking about that and I don't discount that at all, but that Tim Mackey and his team here are talking about how it's at the

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Tower of Babel that these spiritual forces rebelled. That's not where that happened.

36:16

It wasn't at Babel. There were already spiritual forces at work there at Babel to lead the people in evil.

36:26

It wasn't that they rebelled there at Babel. The rebellion had already taken place. I was going to say what happened in Eden.

36:33

Yeah, right. So we've already had a rebellion occur. The divine counsel thing that they're explaining gets even more complicated.

36:43

But again, they're very, very wordy. So it's difficult for us to kind of piece out the different things that they piece out, to piece it apart and try to figure out, okay, what are they saying here?

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And then they don't give references. They're intentionally vague in their videos. And when people are intentionally vague, they are trying to cover themselves in something.

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Trying to cover the message. They're trying to sneak in there. I think the Bible project believes that they're deprogramming people.

37:17

Like you've been raised with a certain fundamentalist belief of Christianity, and we're going to try to deprogram you of that thinking and make you understand what was really being said in the very beginning.

37:31

Red flag. Right. This is how heresies are started. This is how those false denominations came about with like the

37:40

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, Jehovah's Witnesses, all of these false churches came about with the claim, we know what

37:48

God really said in the very beginning. Now, you've never heard it anywhere but here because you've never heard it before.

37:57

Right. This is new. Okay, if it's new, it's not of the Bible. It's just old heresy.

38:03

It's not any new thinking. Anyway, so I was going to talk about the further problems with Michael Heiser and some of the things that he teaches.

38:15

He also rejects penal substitutionary atonement, but his rejection of this is really, really kind of funny.

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So he says, funny as in ha ha, funny as in strange. You can laugh at it, too, if you want.

38:29

It's just kind of pathetic. But the website of his, I'm pretty sure this is his blog.

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It's the Naked Bible blog. I remember coming across this a couple of years ago and it was kind of like, you know that a guy has a problem when he's trying to be provocative with the titles of his materials and the stuff that he does.

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Anyway, he's referencing a fellow by the name of Dr. Johnson in this particular blog, but he doesn't even say who

38:56

Dr. Johnson is. Anyway, he says, I wanted to post some thoughts on Dr.

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Johnson series. He's doing what he does best, making us think about things we take for granted.

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I've jotted down some notes and sharing them is overdue. Here are some thoughts on whoever Dr. Johnson is.

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He says, I believe in the concept of penal substitution, but I'm going to question that terminology a bit below.

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I believe in it. If what is meant is that we have redemption through his blood that the cross event was about our redemption saving us from a fate that we could otherwise not avoid in that regard.

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I consider the atonement more than an example and not a ransom to be paid to Satan. Let me read that again.

39:43

I consider the atonement more of an example and not a ransom to be paid to Satan.

39:50

See, that's not even the understanding of penal substitutionary atonement. We're not talking about paying a ransom to Satan.

39:58

Okay, so what is penal substitutionary atonement? Penal substitutionary atonement.

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I can barely spit it out. So it is the idea that Christ died in our place that God gave his son to die for us and our sins were imputed to him upon the cross.

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So he as our atoning sacrifice as the sacrificial lamb dies in our place our sins upon him and they have been atoned for the way that God transmits the grace of his grace and goodness to us is by faith in Jesus Christ.

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So we are saved by grace through faith and we receive all of the blessings that were purchased through Christ atonement by believing in Christ and his finished work on the cross.

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So not only are our sins imputed to him, but we also receive his righteousness, which has been imputed to us.

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But Christ dying in our place is a penal substitution. We had broken the law.

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Jesus perfectly kept the law, but he became sin for us. 2nd

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Corinthians 521 for our sake he became sin who knew no sin that we might become the righteousness of God in him

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Isaiah 53 plainly States God put forward Christ as a sacrifice. Well, that's Romans 3 but Isaiah 53 saying that it pleased the

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Lord to crush him and by his wounds. We are healed. So Christ willingly laid down his life in submission to the will of the father as an atoning sacrifice on our behalf.

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So this is penal substitutionary atonement penal in that it's it's law.

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It's accomplishing something legal substitutionary meaning that Christ is taking our place.

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He's dying in our place when what we deserve is death Romans 623 the wages of sin is death and then atonement in that our sins are being paid for by Christ death on the cross our sins placed upon him just like the picture of atonement in the

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Old Testament was when an animal was sacrificed the head of the household is placing his hand on the animal's head to signify a transmission of sins on to the animal whose life is being given in place of the person's but but this was all a picture of how

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Christ was going to be that sacrificial lamb for us here Michael Heiser said it's really funny.

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He says I agree with penal substitutionary atonement, but it probably shouldn't be called penal and it probably shouldn't be called substitutionary.

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So therefore he doesn't believe in penal substitutionary atonement. So he goes on to say

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I think that the other views of the atonement make some contributions. We either have redemption through his blood

42:47

Ephesians 1 7 Hebrews 9 12 or not those verses seem quite clear to me, but penal implies a punishment and substitution implies taking a punishment on our behalf, right?

42:59

Exactly. In the if the death of Christ on our behalf wasn't really about giving

43:06

God a substitute on which to pour out his wrath. This is what Dr. Johnson is beginning to focus on then substitution likely isn't the right word again to repeat.

43:17

I think Christ did die for our sake, but how to describe how that work may require language other than penal and substitution.

43:23

So in other words, Michael Heiser does not believe in penal substitutionary atonement. If you lose penal substitutionary atonement, you lose the cross the significance of the cross is gone and and he's delving into heresy here.

43:38

Yeah, I'm confused by that whole paragraph. Well, a great way to understand penal substitutionary atonement.

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If you don't understand what we've just explained here, if you don't understand other views of the atonement,

43:51

I would recommend picking up the DVD. Well, I know it may not be a DVD yet, but you can certainly watch it online

43:57

American Gospel Christ crucified. Yeah, so this is part two of the

44:03

American Gospel documentary series. You've probably seen or at least heard of American Gospel Christ alone.

44:10

Part two is American Gospel Christ crucified and it really does.

44:16

It's about the best unfolding of an understanding of the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement than I've ever seen in a video with some great teachers and even hearing the voices and arguments from those who disagree with this viewpoint,

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Michael Heiser being one of them. He's not in the DVD, but he clearly disagrees with penal substitutionary atonement together by Brandon Kimber.

44:40

Yeah, Brandon Kimber who has directed both of these documentaries did a fabulous job.

44:47

You don't have to have watched part one in order to understand part two. Yeah, right. It's just like the second in his in his what would you call it?

44:55

Not a series. No, not a series. I don't know collection. I was thinking collection too.

45:03

Yeah, it's it's another great movie. It is tremendous. You will be very edified and you will want to show it to your whole church.

45:13

Yeah, so yeah, and the the documentary is also broken up into chapters and I think when you purchase it to watch it online, it has a chapter marker on there.

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Like here's chapter one. Here's chapter two. It'll tell you exactly what the time markers are. So if you do this as a

45:29

Bible study in your church or you show it to your church, you'll be able to know exactly how much time I have per chapter, you know, per class that you show it to or something like that.

45:38

Anyway, that's that's tremendous. But there's just a little bit about Michael Heiser. This is another one of those guys that contributes to the

45:45

Bible project and just like the Bible project video that I did exposing them as rejecting penal substitutionary atonement.

45:53

So does Michael Heiser? You can't work for the Bible project. If you actually believe in the biblical understanding of the atonement or the

46:02

Bible for that matter, right? Well, yeah, and Michael Heiser again, he's kind of developed a niche as being the the supernatural guy, you know, so he knows the supernatural stuff about Scripture.

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There are plenty of teachers who do that don't have to specialize in that, right? This is just kind of how he's gained.

46:21

His name is like the the Angels and Demons guy. So I can tell you all about the Angels and Demons and spiritual forces and divine counsel.

46:28

We turn to Michael Heiser for that stuff. But if you've ever read much

46:34

Heiser, you'll know that he likes to delve into speculation and myth on a lot of stuff, a lot of biblical things.

46:40

Like if it's a fringe belief, Michael Heiser probably believes it. For example, he believes that Noah's son

46:48

Ham slept with Noah's wife. That's not true. So he slept with his own mother.

46:54

And we did a video on that. There's a what video on that. He believes that Samuel did not address

47:00

King Saul at the end of first Samuel. So remember when King Saul goes to the witch at Endor and asks her to bring up Samuel for him.

47:08

Yeah, he doesn't reveal himself who he is and and the woman brings him up.

47:15

And when she realizes that Samuel, you're King Saul. So, yeah,

47:20

Heiser has a funny sort of an explanation for all of that. Anyway, Heiser also believes that Satan in Job chapters one and two was not actually a villain, but he worked for God.

47:36

Okay. Yeah. So is that before the Babylon? I mean, because they on the

47:44

Bible project, they said that they didn't have the fall until, I mean, not the fall, but the whole, they didn't become demons until the

47:54

Babylon. Yeah, like there was this rebellion among the Divine Council at Babylon. So, yeah, I mean, if it was before that,

48:00

I guess I could see the logic in that. Well, no, the story of Job wouldn't have been before the Talmud. I didn't think so.

48:06

Yeah. Yeah. No, so there's not much logic.

48:12

Yeah, he's a big mess. And he also, he also believes that God does not predestine anything, even though Acts 4 28 clearly states that God predestined the crucifixion of Jesus.

48:24

Yes. Romans 8 29, which you cited a portion of in the introduction. God has predestined every believer to be conformed to the image of the sun.

48:32

Yeah. And anyway, there was another segment that I wanted to read here, but we can forego that.

48:37

I hope that that has answered your question. I hope that's enough. We've kind of been on that for a little while here.

48:45

Let's go to this next one. We're going to jump an ocean because this is from Kenneth in Singapore. Awesome.

48:50

He says, Hi Pastor Gabe, I'm a listener from Singapore and I have been continually blessed by your podcast and videos.

48:57

I pray that God will continually bless your work as you bring the light of truth to viewers and listeners all over the world.

49:04

I do have a question after going through the ancient, I'm sorry, going through the account of Cain and Abel's sacrifices to God and his acceptance of Abel's instead of Cain.

49:14

I actually have a hard time remembering whose sacrifice did God accept until someone told me that Cain's sacrifice was not accepted because he wasn't

49:24

Abel. Abel. Yeah, I got a little joke going on there. Just a, just a memory device.

49:33

And yes, I know it's hardly biblical this way, but I digress in that account in Genesis four, specifically in verse four, it mentions fat portions.

49:42

The thing I wonder is how did man during pre -flood times have this idea of fat portions as this term is normally associated with food was all men or humans, whatever vegetarians pre -flood.

49:57

I reason that if man were already eating meat pre -flood that would make

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God's declaration in Genesis 9 3 kind of arbitrary. So in summary, when did man start eating meat for food post fall or post flood?

50:14

Thank you for your time to look into this and I wish you well from the other side of the globe. Kenneth PS does

50:20

Genesis 9 4 still apply to us today? There is a delicacy or at least

50:25

I think it is in the Southeast Asian region, which is made of pigs blood.

50:31

I hope that I am not sinning for eating this. So let's look at Genesis chapter 9 verses 3 and 4

50:37

God says to Noah. This is all post -flood every moving thing that lives shall be food for you.

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And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything but you shall not eat flesh with its life that is its blood and for your lifeblood.

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I will require a reckoning from every beast. I will require it and from man from his fellow man.

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I will require a reckoning for the life of man, whoever sheds the blood of man by man shall his blood be shed for God made man in his own image and you be fruitful and multiply increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it.

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So here is the first place that we have in scripture in Genesis chapter 9, where God is given permission for man to eat meat.

51:20

If there was any eating meat before the flood, then it was pagan and we have reason to believe that that was going on because God had to say to Noah and his sons and their families.

51:34

I give you everything but you shall not eat flesh with its life. That is its blood the pagan practice was to drink blood believing that you were absorbing the life force of the creatures blood that you were drinking

51:49

Becky Becky's making faces at me. I'm not a fan not a fan of drinking blood.

51:55

Yeah. So is this is this something that is forbidden for you? Like you've got certain cultures will eat, you know blood pudding or something like that and he talked about the pig.

52:06

What do you think? Yeah, the pigs blood in in Southeast Asia. Yeah, I don't think that there's anything wrong with this as a food because after all the meat that we eat can also have blood in it.

52:18

Like if you eat a steak rare, I mean, you're not going to like dry it out. Yeah, right.

52:23

You still got blood coming out of that steak. If you're eating a rare steak, right? So no, you're not doing anything sinful by doing that.

52:30

This is against the practice of consuming blood as a means of gaining life, right?

52:36

Which is a heart issue, right? Yeah. See that's that's more the pagan practice that's being rejected there rather than the substance of the blood itself, right?

52:45

So that would be your understanding now God gave meat to mankind to eat. They could eat any animal that they wanted in Genesis 9, but then when you had the ceremonial laws that were given to Israel in Leviticus chapter 11, which get repeated again in Deuteronomy, you have these animals are clean and these animals are unclean, but then

53:06

Jesus in Mark chapter 7 declares all declares all foods clean and then in Acts chapter 10

53:12

God says to Peter do not call unclean what God is called common and the

53:17

Apostle Paul says repeatedly several times that we're not condemned by what we eat and and you know the statement in Romans chapter 14 what we eat what days we worship on these kinds of things.

53:29

These are matters of Liberty and to Timothy the Apostle Paul said that everything is good if it is received with Thanksgiving, right?

53:36

So there's no reason for us to be condemned by anything that we eat. These things are good the ceremonial laws that were enacted for the purpose of again for cleanliness going into the temple to offer sacrifices tabernacle temple.

53:51

These were things that were pointing to Christ which Christ fulfilled with his death on the cross. So those food laws no longer apply.

53:58

There was a time and a place for them. They were types and shadows. Yes, they've been fulfilled in Christ, but he has a question about the fat portion.

54:07

Yeah, the fat portion. Well, I mean a sheep is fat so doesn't have to eat meat to get fat a sheep has fat on it.

54:15

Yeah, but that that particular statement Genesis 4 for Abel also brought to the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions doesn't necessarily mean the fat the literal fat itself.

54:25

Okay, but just I mean he he took the choice animals of his flock those that were the healthiest.

54:32

Yeah, the fit -looking right? Those were the ones that he offered unto God. So yeah, there we go.

54:38

Is that our show? Yeah, you got anything else you want to add? Happy Canada Day a few days late and happy early 4th of July.

54:49

That's right. That's tomorrow and I guess that's it be safe.

54:55

Becky's looking up at our our ref tunes calendar. Yeah, our ref tunes calendar.

55:01

Yeah, so I've got a new one in the month of July. We've got a Thomas Watson quote Satan loves to fish in the troubled waters of a discontented heart a lot of trouble going on in the world now, but find your satisfaction and joy in Christ and escape from the devil snares as James says draw near to God and he will draw near to you resist the devil and he will flee from you.

55:30

Yes, be surrounded in his word. Amen. Let's pray a God's word specifically not the devil's word.

55:36

Yeah, that's what I meant. His capital H in case you can't see the letters in my head.

55:43

Couldn't couldn't see your proper pronouns. Yes, Heavenly Father. We thank you for our time together and and we thank you for the goodness and joy that has been poured into our hearts through faith in our

55:57

Savior Jesus Christ, and I pray that we would be fully satisfied in Christ. We fear for nothing in this world for we know that our souls are kept by you for Glory though.

56:09

The body will perish and die our souls will not they will live forever with God in Glory through this eternal life that has been given to us by faith in Jesus Christ purchased by his blood shed on the cross for our sins forgive us our sins and lead us in righteousness for your namesake to the the praise of your glorious grace.

56:33

We pray for our friends in California right now. It seems like the laws of our government bear harder on our friends on the

56:41

West Coast more so than anywhere else in the US and we pray that they would deal wisely concerning this this thing that Governor Newsom has decided that he needs to impress upon churches, but that we do not shrink from obedience of your word that we sing with our hearts making melody unto

57:00

God the praises do your name because you alone are worthy of our worship.

57:06

We have no fear of of going against any law that would be set against the law of God, but our desire is to please the

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Lord our God with all our heart soul mind and strength lead us in wisdom and courage in these days through Christ Jesus our

57:24

Lord in whose name we pray. Amen. I told her to stop.

58:36

Dog didn't do anything outside. Somebody shot off a firework right as soon as he was ready.

58:45

I wish though that that would just make him poop himself. Somebody shoots a firework and the dog goes.

58:51

Well, it would be helpful, but it does not it makes it does when he's in the house, but just not when he's outside.