April 27, 2020 Show with Marc Grimaldi on “The Christ, the Whole Christ, and Nothing But the Christ”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlyle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com This is

Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 27th day of April 2020 and I want to first of all start the show by thanking everyone

From the very depths of my heart who prayed Fervently and and are still praying fervently for my oldest brother

John Who is in his 70s and living in Texas? My brother

John as many of you know, I even announced it last Friday live on the air he had been rushed to the hospital and He has been for years suffering from critical stage emphysema and He had been rushed to the hospital once again this time.

It seemed more serious than ever because of the fact that he could not breathe and They Rendered him unconscious at the hospital they put him on life support and His wife and daughter

Regina were expecting the worst and Then the next day after multitudes of people all over the world were praying for him.

He regained consciousness and He is off life support.

He's breathing on his own. Although it is a laborious heavy breathing

But the the best news of all is my brother who? typically would

Make fun of me it wasn't totally serious, but it was still a

Form of mockery when I would talk to him about Christianity and his need for Christ That was his normal responses trying to turn it into a joke of some kind, but it seems that he is truly and earnestly seeking after Christ right now and he had

Told me the very first thing he texted me after he was taken off life support

I was surprised to get a text from him at all and he had texted me Asking about a certain website that I had never heard of before and it is a

Christian website of some kind and he told me he's searching the the Internet for Christian websites

So I recommended a couple of them to him myself and and I said to him yesterday

Keep looking to Jesus and he texted back Absolutely with about five exclamation points

Exclamation marks after that. So these are obviously all very encouraging signs and enormous

Incalculable answers to prayer and I I am just so grateful to all of you who prayed and I urge you to please continue praying for him that the

Lord extends his life here on earth greatly and that he makes a very crystal -clear profession of faith and that he's protected from false

Christ's and false Christianity's as He is searching the

Internet and perhaps even meeting People at least he doesn't he's not permitted to have visitors so he wouldn't be meeting them face to face but you never know he might even have a

Nurse who is a member of a cult or a false religion or something like that who begins to witness to him?

And of course, we would ask that in addition to all the other prayers you are lifting before Our Lord's Throne of Grace that you pray that a truly born -again nurse or nurses or even doctor or doctors are in care and are taking care of him and that they

Further witness to him and there's a lot more I could say, but I just wanted to thank you all

For that amazing news just truly powerful powerful answers to prayer

I also wanted to give you some sad news because this individual for any of you who have listened to the iron sharpens iron radio program going way back to 2005 when

I was broadcasting out of WNYG and WGBB on Long Island, New York You will recall we had a different voiceover artist

Doing the opening announcements for iron sharpens iron a man that many people told me thought

Morgan Freeman had Had been doing the the opens for the show.

His name Was Grey Payne and I just found out today that he went home to be with the

Lord he loves so much on the 15th of April and he was 79 years old and Now he is enjoying eternity with Christ with his first wife

Eleanor who was a dear sweet Christian lady and also a woman who was on fire for the

Lord and filled with zeal as well as grace and loveliness and sweetness, so I'm sure that they have had a wonderful reunion, but My guest today is someone in whom

I've I'd love to interview. He's my most recent former pastor

When I was a member of Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, New York in Merrick, New York before relocating to Pennsylvania pastor

Mark Romaldi had become the pastor during my last few years on Long Island and Perhaps you can remind me

Mark. How long have you been the pastor at Grace Reformed Baptist Church now? Yeah, I've been passing here for almost 15 years now.

Wow time really flies yeah, and so I Left Long Island in 2014 that would have been six years ago.

So you would have Been in your I guess ninth year.

I might as my math adding up there yeah, so you were my pastor for nine years there along with Doug Totter and In fact,

I can remember Mark before he was even the Christian when he was a teenager because his parents were members of the church and we would have

Bible studies in their home and I remember on occasion this annoying guy with strangely colored hair would barge into the room and start demanding things that He had misplaced or what?

And Remarkable remarkable testimony of salvation. I believe it was When you had to overdose on drugs, am

I correct? Yeah, I've taken some taken an exorbitant amount of drugs and wound up in the hospital.

Yeah And that's like when you were in the hospital is when you were brought to the Lord or at least very shortly after Right.

Yes throughout that time the way it would be for the exact moment Let's say but but it was through that that process of those things happening that led me to the point

Ultimately where the Lord brought me to him and today we are going to be discussing the latest book

By pastor Mark Romaldi. It's not yet in print, but it is expected to be available very soon

The Christ the whole Christ and nothing but the Christ and it's my honor and privilege

To have you back on iron trip and Zion radio pastor Mark Romaldi Yeah It's good to be here Chris and just wanted to make sure that your audience

Knows that you and I are at least six feet apart away at this time because of this We're a lot more than six feet apart

And why don't you tell our listeners about grace reform Baptist Church of Long Island? Yes grace reform

Baptist Church of Long Island as it says in the title is a reform Baptist Church We're here to these

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 Hold out the truths of the

Reformation and we would seek to be a Christ centered church And where the gospel is here and present and so if you're ever in town here and Merrick of Long Island We would love to have you come visit us

Yes, and if you live in the city, it's very easily accessible by train the walk from the

Merrick train station to grace reform Baptist Church of Long Island is only about five minutes or so if even that yeah, and so And this is a confessional reform

Baptist Church adheres to the 1689 London Baptist Confession and You are a member of the reform

Baptist Network. Am I right? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah great if anybody wants more information about grace reform

Baptist Church of Long Island and I Hope to remember to repeat this later on but the website is grace reformed

Baptist Church org grace reformed Baptist Church org

I'm assuming that there are likely a lot of Other churches with the identical name who are filled with envy that you got that website

Well, we also have the dot -com same thing dot -com Great. Yeah. All righty.

Well The Christ the whole Christ nothing but the Christ before I even go into the subject at hand

How many books are under your belt now that you've written in our in print? Yeah, there are three in print is one that's not in print

So there are three that are still presently in print about two and this one is going to be in a short time

So actually two presently Great. I know those two books are one of them is we've

We actually interviewed me about I think of two times in the past it has to do with OCD deal with obsessive -compulsive

Disorder and then the other one has to do with the the Odyssey called evil and suffering in a sovereign

God's world But you also interviewed me about yes, I recall them both very well And now we are entering into a discussion on this new book

The Christ the whole Christ and nothing but the Christ obviously

Borrowed from when a witness is swearing in in a courtroom to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing, but the truth so help him

God or her God and So tell us why that title why did you borrow that very well -known phrase and change it about change it around a bit to fit the exclusive Exclusivity of Christ Yeah, the reason why

I use that particular title is I as I thought about the the three different statements within that title

I thought it would really help to encompass Just some of the very important aspects of the gospel sent it upon Jesus Christ and especially as you said with with the the the opposition that comes against Christianity in our country and throughout the world because Christianity is exclusive and people see that as offensive and arrogant and so what one of the main goals

I had in writing this book was to was to deal with that issue and to show people why? Why Christianity is exclusive that it's by necessity that it's not to be arrogant

It's not to to show off some level of pride and say hey we have the hidden truth But really to show that Christianity is unique and that it's it's necessary and so the the three -part theme to it the

Christ Addressing the importance of Jesus Christ Who he is and what he accomplished and why we need what he accomplished the whole

Christ Speaking about how we need to embrace Christ Especially with respect to his two natures this whole humanity and his full deity and then nothing but the

Christ Addressing the fact that there is no other Nothing to be added to to Christ nothing to be added to the gospel that it's

Christ alone who saves So when you go through that three -part theme It kind of deals with some of the counter religions and the counter -attacks that come against us

But in a more gracious way to say look, it's it's by necessity It's not it's not because we're trying to be arrogant

But this is actually what the need is for mankind because of who God is and who we are and what's happened between us

Let me immediately give our email address in case anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own

It's chris arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z n at gmail .com

and as always Please give us your first name at least Your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter perhaps you disagree with some important theological matter with your own pastor or with the

Predominant members of your congregation or your denomination or perhaps you're even a pastor and you disagree with your

Co -elders or your denomination? Well, we would understand that you would want to remain anonymous but if it's just a basic general question on theology and doctrine from From the theme that we are addressing today.

Then please at least give us your first name city and state and country of residence Well to start off with the exclusivity of Christ in fact your your your subtitle of the book is

Why the Christian gospel must be exclusive? This is an aspect of our faith that is most repugnant to those who are not

Christians Either those that profess to be Christians who are really leftists and apostates or even those from other religions for instance from what

I understand if you are in a Hindu country

Hindus will likely not bother you in the slightest even the most militant ones

Just by believing in Jesus Christ but once you say That everyone must

Believe in Jesus Christ as their only hope for salvation

That's when the militant Hindu will get very upset and and they have even

Resorted to grotesque violence. A lot of people are unaware of that. They they look upon The Muslims as the only ones involved in horrific barbaric

Terrorist activity across the globe, but there are especially in India, obviously some very extreme militant

Hindus who have The most grotesque incident I can remember of Hindu terrorism or atrocities were when a when militant

Hindus burned a Australian missionary family alive in their automobile While holding the doors closed with long poles, you know so that they could be far enough away from the car that the

Hindu militants could be far away far away enough from the car that they wouldn't themselves be harmed by the flames and yet keep the doors closed, but But there are people who have no problem with you believing upon Christ as long as He is just one of many options plausible acceptable options to enter heaven

You also have within Christianity people who have been great heroes

Within Christendom like Billy Graham Who believed and I'm amazed how many people are shocked when

I tell them this because it's not like it was a secret I mean he was on television a lot giving interviews and Basically Billy Graham was an inclusivist who believed that Jesus Christ and his

Sinless life His atoning death his resurrection. They were all necessary for anyone to be saved, but You don't have to necessarily believe that or know that to be saved.

So he had an inclusivist understanding of Of Christianity and the gospel whereby he had even clearly said

In an interview that you may have seen on Robert Schuller's program many years ago where he believes that many people are coming from The Muslims and the

Hindus and the Buddhists and the atheists to Christ, but they're not leaving those things

The they're still coming to Christ though because they're basically living according to the light that they have

And of course you have pluralism which is there are different ways that one may enter into heaven but as far as far especially as the one that is

Most prominent amongst Some very well -known evangelicals and and people from other forms or denominations within so -called

Christendom Why is that not an acceptable idea like like for instance if Billy Graham were alive

Sitting here on the panel on our show today And he would say to you know,

Jesus Christ is absolutely necessary for anyone salvation it's just that his grace is bigger than our understanding and He recognizes that many people will never get to know who he is on this earth and so therefore many of these people he honors their faith and Receives it unto himself, even though they are not by name

Claiming him as their their sole source of salvation or their their soul

Lord God the Savior and King and they may still be Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or atheist

That are searching and and he will honor that nonetheless even if they never come to the point of Bowing the knee to him.

How do you respond to that kind of understanding? Yeah, yeah, the problem with that obviously is that it's it's foreign from Scripture both an example and direct teaching when you look at the example of the

Apostles in the early church and the Lord Jesus Christ himself and the The call to to go out and to evangelize and to make disciples and to baptize and to Teach them all things that Christ had taught his his disciples

And you see that being carried out in Acts It's is over and over the emphasis on the necessity of repentance

Which involves turning away from whatever it is that you were embracing Outside of Christ, whatever your faith was whatever your religion was whatever your trust was in your works your sin all that is a part of repentance and Completely putting your trust in Jesus Christ.

So you see that all throughout the scriptures in Romans Paul talks about the urgency of people being sent

To go out and to get the gospel in Romans chapter 10 the necessity of sending How will they hear unless unless somebody preaches the gospel to them and how will they preach unless they're sent?

And so there's that need for people to go and to give that specific Message and for people to hear that specific message and to believe that specific message and the

Apostle Paul was grieved because He had a deep love for the for his Jewish kinsmen in the flesh and if anybody had a

General enough knowledge of God in some sense a monotheistic God and so on it would have been the Jews And you think that they would be the ones who maybe would have that access that Billy Graham's talking about but Paul says that he

Even wished him he could see himself condemned if they would be saved through his condemnation So they were they were condemned

So you see that in the teaching of Romans and necessity of getting the gospel out there and also in Acts Again, when you look at all the events of the gospel being preached is always the call to repent and believe

You never have anywhere in Scripture where this is unconscious Sense of light that somebody's given this whatever that Gnostic teaching might be

That's just there and and and you and some people are going to be saved and not know about it. It's absolutely just absent from and completely contradictory to Scripture And I think the thing that Billy Graham, I mean, obviously we know that in the later part of his life his later years

He seemed to have regressed more and more and into that kind of a dangerous teaching Not that he was a hundred percent early on but he was a lot more

Fouled in his preaching when he was younger at least And then he seemed to kind of drift off in that sense to maybe want to welcome be welcoming and not to stir the apple cart when you're dealing with Muslims and others and to allegedly love others by not wanting to offend and Hoping that they have this extra space for them that Christ is giving them even though they don't know it

It's just not it's just absolutely Contradictory to everything that Scripture is and what it says and what it teaches.

I mean, that's what it comes down to yes, and people very often

Who may have good intentions wind up acting as if they are more kind and loving and merciful and gracious than God himself and and Someone who spoke for God through the

God -breathed words of Scripture the Apostle Paul I always bring up to people who have this inclusivistic idea and who think that I'm Being overly harsh and judgmental and mean -spirited and bigoted even when

I talk about the exclusive claims of Christ and the exclusivity of Christ in Christianity, I will say if what you are saying is true that we have to really not be caught up in too much giving theology and doctrine too much importance

If that is true, then the Apostle Paul really owes the Judaizers an apology Because because they were from what we know

They believed in everything that Paul taught except that they insisted upon circumcision as being necessary for salvation

Yeah, yeah, and if you look at Galatians when Paul addresses them, I mean, it's it's great

Galatians is one of the most fierce You know openings of a book you see Paul comes into one of his epistles

He's very gentle and how he thankfully is even to Corinthians with the things that they were doing Paul, you know

He reiterates his love with Galatians. He comes out like a firebrand I mean, he's swinging he's like if anybody comes to you with a different message, let them be accursed who has bewitched you

I mean, he knows the seriousness of them Incorporating into like you said

Chris even incorporating into a bit of an alleged faith in Christ the necessity of anything else

Circumcision or anything else let alone someone who completely rejects Christ and supposedly that somehow there's some light inside of them that they

You know that they have that that would save them in the end So I mean Galatians is a very clear It shows you that that's the case that it's exclusive.

There's only one way, you know through Christ I mean he goes so far as to say that he would rather have the the

Judaizers have castrated themselves Yeah, then Then be circumcised for the reasons that they believed one must be circumcised

One of the most loving individuals you could ever meet in Scripture We I mean he teaches us so much about Christian virtue and godliness and love and self -sacrifice

And how he would rather not eat ever again and let somebody stumble over something that he's doing But when it came to the gospel with somebody hinge, you know hindering the gospel and fringing upon the gospel

He was like a drawn sword, you know, he knew that that was life or death. That was spiritual life or death for eternity

So he was that serious Well when we come back from our first break, I want you to discuss

The issue that you bring up initially in the book the disease And we'll have you enter more deeply into that And if anyone would like to join us as I said before With a question of your own.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com ch or is a or n and Z and gmail .com

And as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

That's chris arnzen at gmail .com chris arnzen at gmail .com

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of pastor

Mark Romaldi and our discussion on the Christ and The whole

Christ and nothing but the Christ. Sorry. I had a little bit of a brain freeze there for a second and We'll be right back

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From Chris Arnzen and iron sharpens iron radio We are now back with our guest pastor Mark Romaldi of grace reform

Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York where he is one of two pastors there alongside

Doug Totter And we are addressing today the Christ the whole Christ and nothing but the

Christ Which is also the title of a new book that is expected to be in print soon

By pastor Mark and if you have any questions, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and I wanted you to enter in to a discussion now of the disease

In regard to the very first chapter in your book Yeah, let me just let me just practice that one second by saying this too.

We're just so the audience is aware to one of the Purposes that I had for this book is it's only 60 pages long

It's pretty short as I wanted it to be a tool to be used Especially because we deal with people or we speak with people friends loved ones who were made some of Roman Catholics somewhere and other kinds of faiths some rapists, but who would

Especially question the issue of the exclusivism of Christianity what the differences are So I'm hoping it could be useful to that end in this first chapter

On the diseases first section. I should say part one on the disease is Essential to to unraveling the whole rest of the book in the cure

Because what happened what I address in the disease first as I as I address the issue of sin

I begin with who God is it's thought out with God and is Infinite holy nature is righteousness and just the character of God and from there

I talk about man as the creation and then I get into man's offense With God in sinning against him and Adam and Eve in the garden and how they sinned and now that sin has been

Propagated down to us and just beginning to understand the serious nature of sin as an offense against God Not because God simply chooses to be offended by it, but because of who he is by his essential nature and character

It is who God is it is his very nature to be opposed to sin and to to judge and condemn it

And so with dealing with the issue of the disease If you think about this by way of illustration for a moment

But if I if this even this COVID -19 that's going around and they're wrestling with trying to find a cure and we know that it's

It's not deadly for most people, but there are some people who are who are elderly or who have

Some kind of compromised system Compromised immune system or whatever might be that it could be very

Deadly to somebody like that. Well, if they come out with a cure for this disease this illness

And they're wrestling with chloroquine and all these different kinds of things But if they came out with a single cure that could cure this illness

There might be a thousand different kinds of medication factors way more than a thousand medications that you can get at a

CVS or a drug store and to to say that one particular drug is the actual cure for this disease and Would not be

It shouldn't be something that's offensive or something. That's arrogant, right? You would say well you you love these individuals who have this disease and you want to give them the right cure

So you're not going to give my coil or Tylenol or something like that to somebody who has COVID Who is who can very well die from it?

You want to make sure they have the right cure well the same way when we understand the nature of sin And how it affects us how it affects our well -being and the gravity of defense that it is against God Breaking his law, and it's a it's a an offense against our

Holy God, and it requires Atonement it requires a just payment for that sin you begin to appreciate that the that the

Exclusive nature of Christianity is not something That's coming from an area of pride or arrogance, but coming from an area of necessity

The disease warrants that so whatever the disease somebody has

Sometimes there's a specific medication that meets that disease and other medicines will do nothing to help well in this case the disease is

Spiritual and it has to do with how it how it offends And the the way that it opposes our

Holy God and so that first chapter first section on the disease I deal with the issue of sin, and then

I deal with the issue of death death being not only physical death, but also spiritual death Also the whole idea of hell, and what's entailed there the eternal consequences that sin brings about So when you think of the urgency of the matter

Chris when you of how serious of an offense our sin is to God of what? it requires That's why the whole issue of Christ the gospel the uniqueness of the gospel

It's the exclusive nature of the gospel. That's where that all comes to the table by way of necessity And so it's it's important for people to understand that and not just think that Christians Are these this arrogant group of people are out there who just want to be exclusive in this class on their own and want to?

Block everybody else out It's necessity and when we preach the gospel to everyone we evangelize as you said before Chris that with Hindus and others

The offense really comes down to when you try to evangelize How can you not evangelize?

How can you not if you know that this is the universal condition of all mankind is that we're condemned?

Because of our sin nature in the sight of God and we're heading to an eternal place of torment How can you not even at the expense of your own comfort in life evangelize?

And I think it was you could probably tell which one it was Chris. I don't always kind of tell her one of those the magician

Angela Angela yeah, he had actually said when somebody's talked to him about the gospel.

I think it was Which is named the British guy the guy who goes around and does the gospel presentations on the videos and stuff?

I'm just drawing a blank at the moment, but you know is he he when he brought this to to his attention

He said that he had put a quote out Basically saying that if you're a true

Christian, and you really believe that and you're not evangelizing That would be a heinous crime, but if you're not how could you not go out and warn people in this guy?

I tell her was right it was an atheist I don't think he's been converted or anything like that, but he's saying he understands

Why we would we would be compelled to do that And so that's that's the gist of where I get to with the whole idea of the disease and why it's important to understand

The nature of our problem. Yes, and I'm glad you said our problem because a lot of people

Either have a wrong preconceived notion about our at our intentions

When we evangelize them or they're listening to a Christian or even a charlatan professing to be a

Christian Who is so arrogant and proud? that he only brings condemnation to those around him for their sin and They may act as though they have no sin of their own

But this This Disease is something since we are all made out of the same lump of clay

We are all children of the devil Until some of us are adopted and rescued by God himself and he makes us by his miracle of grace and mercy a child of God, but we should never come across to Those whom we want to see rescued from their sinful state and from hell we should never come across That we believe we are somehow innately superior to them

Yeah, yeah, we need and that's part of the problem to Chris with with people's view of Christianity there's many people who have a story right of a church that they went to how they were mistreated or Or maybe that church, you know, there were there were grievous sins committed there and and the reality is that even in the best of churches, first of all this we all still struggle with sin and fight with sin and and Serious sin issues do come up in churches and so on and that's what we don't base our faith in the church

But in the scriptures and in the Christ of the scriptures about but if you think about it The the fact that there is a real devil and there are real minions that serve with the devil real demons

Who work against this gospel who are fighting against? The Christ of this gospel and trying to destroy his church and trying to keep people from benefiting from the gospel

It's not surprising that they were going to be many many ways that he's going to to a seek to attack the witness of the gospel and one of those ways is to have to have

Ponies right to have those that are hypocrite hypocrites in there people were going to profess the gospel and profess faith in Christ But they're going to teach a false gospel

Some were going to be very legalistic or be very arrogant or or contaminated with an easy believer

There's all kinds of contaminations out there and that's why I would encourage the audience as well to make sure that What you look to as your ultimate authority has got to be the

Word of God We're imperfect Even the best of men are men at best and will let you down and if you look to anybody but Christ and his

Word You're going to to doubt right? You're not you're going to start to doubt the truth of Christianity So when you have all that in there and people's experiences that they have you can see that why there's some sense of Reluctance or pulling back

And so we as Christians want to make sure we don't add to that We want to make sure that we're trying to come alongside of people and say look is my testimony, you know,

I've been there I know what I deserve this. I don't deserve any of this. I don't deserve grace. I'm not better than you

I'm not in the position of a higher a higher position than you are and and I'm trying to now bring you to my higher

Position because of something good in me. I'm saying that it's all based upon what this

Christ has accomplished He has to be the center and so that's important when you think about the way people will

You know wrestle with the issue of the exclusiveness and how people treat them arrogantly and what they experience

By the way, real quick the person I was thinking before I think it was way comfort was the what the individual

I think who would interviewed tell her if I recall Okay, great we have

John and Bangor, Maine who says in regard to your rejection of Inclusivism as expressed by Billy Graham and others

How do you interpret Acts chapter 17 verse 22 through 31 where it says?

Paul stood in the middle of the Aragapagus and said you men of Athens I perceive that you are very religious in all things for as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship

I found also an altar with this inscription to an unknown God and then

Paul Proceeds to basically reveal Jesus Christ as this unknown God it appears unless I am misreading this

That they are unknowingly worshiping Christ. Am I wrong? No, I think that text actually supports and they

I don't know if the individual wrote the email is coming from that angle But that actually supports Exactly what we're saying

That Paul is saying look You have all these gods Zeus and Hermes, whatever all these different temples and gods and he may he uses that that one dedication to the unknown

God As a means of saying look there is there is one particular

God out of all your gods Who is correct and he borrows that classification because he is unknown to them

And he does exist there is they're kind of falling out this thing like We want to make sure we don't leave anybody out.

We don't want to take any of the gods out So they put this unknown God in there and he said look I'm gonna talk to you about the unknown one

He's playing on what they're doing and using that to bring them to the true and living God who is the unknown

God to them Right in the present. He literally is that even though they might not intend it that way

He uses that to that end to bring them to that, you know to the truth of the true gospel

So even in that context He's saying that all these other gods that are there are not real and he and in that he when he's speaking to the people

He talks about that God is not a God that's made by hands and you have to put him up on a horse and carry him around and he depends

Upon you to offer him these things because he's in need and he's angry at you if you don't give him food or whatever

It's the other way around is that our God doesn't depend upon us. We depend upon him

And and so Paul is kind of turning some of the Greek thought On its head there in that text and what he says in the preaching there

So that that's a very much very much a test to the whole exclusive nature of the gospel what Paul was doing right there so when

Paul says You are ignorant of the very thing you worship and this is what

I'm going to proclaim to you there assume from what you just said That is somewhat of a tongue -in -cheek expression because they're not really worshiping

Christ You can imagine all these different statues and dedications and plaques or whatever dedicated

And and the idea is that they have this one there that they don't just in case there's others or another

God They're not aware. They don't want to leave that one out and so Paul can with with Honesty and certainty he can utilize that in a sense because They even know they're trying to worship him in some sense because they don't want to leave anybody out

And even though they're not doing it correctly. You can point to the true God He said he's basically using that as a means of bridging to the true

God It's it's his avenue of reaching these individuals who have all these gods. It's actually a brilliant thing

It's and it would encourage us when we evangelize, right? We know we don't want to cut we can't compromise the gospel

We can't ever change what the gospel is, but sometimes the means of conveying that gospel Oh the circumstances who are we dealing with are we dealing with a you know old folks in a nursing home?

We're on the dying days. Are we dealing with you know, arrogant? You know bullies or gangsters?

Are we dealing with college kids who are very much into influence by atheism? Are we dealing with Hindus?

You can utilize Whatever you are you can utilize those surroundings in that context and that in whatever way is true

To get to the truth and I think when Paul sees that he's saying him If there isn't there is an unknown

God there to you He is unknown to you and I want to tell you about this unknown God You're not you're not aware and he is the one who created the book of Paul says

He's the one who created all things in heaven on earth. So Paul when he says that he's immediately elevating the unknown

God Over all these other statues and and all the gods that they have them

So it's more of I think a means of Paul using that to to get them to the truth And he's doing it with him in a way that he can be honest and he's not compromised because it is

It is the unknown God. It is the God that they're not aware of that. They're saying. Hey, we want to make sure we pay respect

To the to even if we're not thinking of a particular God only Paul's bringing that God in and saying yeah

Let me talk about this guy with you But all these other ones are not God's the one you're not that you worship in a goose.

He's actually the real God So in some sense, they're offering worship maybe incense or whatever it is that they're doing to all these gods

And they are doing it to that unknown God Not that it's accepted. But again, he's using that as a bridge to to address them

Right, just like Nadab and Abihu. They were offering worship to the true

Yahweh But they were where they did so in a way that caused their own deaths because it was

Displeasing the God it was a false form of worship God but the point is that is that they're acknowledging the possibility that there is some other

God and Paul said well I'm not only gonna Ignore, I'm not only gonna agree with you on that But I'm gonna say that that's the only one in true

God and here he is and it's a brilliant way of him bridging them into the gospel All right.

I would make a recommendation before we go to this midway break because you are still Overmodulating and I don't know why but perhaps when you speak you could speak farther away

From the mouthpiece of your phone because that may help and I apologize folks this kind of thing happens from time to time and they're beyond my

Understanding or ability to fix But we're going to our midway break right now. It's the longer than normal break.

So please be patient with us This is the break where Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida They use the middle break of our show

To air their own public service announcements and other localized things because by FCC regulations

They have to localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida and while they air their own

Public service announcements we air our globally heard commercials So, please try to write down as much of the information provided by as many of our sponsors as possible

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Christ the whole Christ and nothing but the Christ and our email address again is

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Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years

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That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough

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Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

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CV BBS to Before we return to pastor Mark Ramoli of grace reform

Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York with our discussion today on The Christ the whole

Christ and nothing but the Christ which is also the theme of His new book that should be available in print in four months

Before we go back to that theme Let me just give you a couple of announcements first of all tomorrow and Wednesday two days in a row.

We're gonna have pastor Mac Tomlinson returning the iron sharpens iron radio. I Do not know the themes yet.

I hopefully will know those tonight, but pastor Mac Tomlinson is always a joy to have on this program a very

Biblically wise brother in Christ the very Gracious and loving brother in Christ that oozes through his words.

I Frequent announcements Requesting prayer that Mac Tomlinson has visited my oldest brother

John in the hospital Before the coronavirus broke out and he was permitted into the hospital, but he has been in contact with him by phone

During his latest trip to the hospital and I value that very very much and I'm so glad that my brother

John is very welcoming and receiving Contact from Mac, but he will be on as I said

Tomorrow and Wednesday, we have a first -time guest on Thursday. His name is Michael Hammer He is from Princeton, New Jersey, and he is a

Jewish believer and we're going to be discussing his testimony of salvation and How as a

Jewish believer He has come to embrace The doctrines of reform theology also known as the doctrines of sovereign grace and also known as Calvinism Which is seems to be a rare phenomenon amongst

Jewish believers so that should be a Fascinating discussion on Thursday and then on Friday we have my dear friend pastor

Joe Jackowitz giving his weekly coronavirus updates and then also giving biblical application on how we should respond and last but not least folks if you

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and put advertising in the subject line and I want to be more compassionate and gentle in the way that I say this because I've been rebuked by a woman who

Shall remain anonymous Who I think very rightly pointed out to me that There are people out there who do not belong to a church because they have been horribly abused

By a church in their past and they are very hesitant and frightened and paranoid about making themselves vulnerable again and becoming a member of a church, but Having said that and I do have compassion for you

Having said that no matter what we experience in our lives, however is not a

License for us to disobey God and it is clear that In the

New Testament, there are no lone wolf Christians There are no maverick Christians who are not under the authority of a local

Body of elders at a local church and it's not going to do you any good. Anyway, it's not going to benefit you perhaps even especially if you've been harmed seriously by A church in the past.

It's not going to benefit you by just wallowing in that pain without truly ordained men of God as your shepherds over you and and the body of Christ that can

Overwhelm you with love and grace So, please if you are not a member of a church

And you're having trouble finding one. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and God willing

I will be able to help you find a church no matter where on the planet earth you live I have helped quite a number of people all over the globe find churches where they have joined or recommended to Family friends and loved ones who don't have churches or where they have visited on vacation

So that's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line That's also the email address where you could send in a question

To pastor Mark Romaldi on our subject today the Christ the whole Christ and nothing but the

Christ That's chrisarnson at gmail .com And we do have a listener

We have Johnny in Queens, New York, and I have to enlarge his email because the font is microscopic and His question is many in the visible church are

Reading the same Bible about the person and work of Christ yet. They still come to different conclusions

About the atonement his work to sanctify and preserve his people or the meaning of his teaching in the four

Gospels Why would there be such confusion and division if they all claim to know the whole

Christ? very good question Yep, so I would

I would say that's definitely a very good question for one. I would say it comes down to The the way that the way people would study this for how do you how do you understand the scriptures?

Is there a method of interpretation? That's proper. And I think that when you're dealing with the

Especially with the essentials of the scripture when you're dealing with the gospel who Christ is I'm talking about, you know The foundational issues of scripture.

It's very clear. It's all throughout the scriptures and if you're using a proper Permanent what

I mean by that is a proper means of interpretation where you would interpret the scriptures according to the way that each piece of literature that's given in the scriptures when you would open up text within their context and not

Just pull things out like we see in the political realm, right? We see a lot of people tend to twist things and politics

I'll just take somebody's statement out of context and make it and make it into say something It's not saying a lot of it happens within within Christianity as well within studying the

Bible So somebody's really trying to study the Bible and they understand how to and I don't mean that there's this secret knowledge on understanding how to but just basic understanding of how to Understand what an author is saying to his audience and looking at context and things like that There should be a pretty clear understanding of the very basics and the most important Issues of the faith.

Now there are things that it can be debatable that are less Maybe they're not as clear certain.

There is issues of eschatology There's room for debate there. Obviously, there's some difficulty in understanding some of the things in Revelation and Even issues with respect to how we talk about baptism.

We have Presbyterians and Baptists and whether or not Individuals should be baptized as infants and so on and and that this is room for debate there.

There's certainly a good case That Presbyterians would make they're wrong, but they make a good case That It could be some level of confusion about we are imperfect interpreters.

We're not we're not perfect And you'll see with some of those more peripheral issues even issues related to the spiritual gifts and whether or not they've ceased and how

They're to be used. There's some debate in there, but I think when you come down to the fundamentals

They're thoroughly clear They're it when it's right there and it's all over the scriptures all over the place.

It should be very clear So but the reason why there are debates or there are disagreements about the fundamentals

Generally is that it has to do with how people are interpreting the scripture But you can take any but you can take the scriptures and make it say whatever you want

If you if you don't use, you know a proper study of literature the problem study of narrative what's going on a narrative?

I don't understand narrative a proper understanding of didactic teaching literature Which would be in the epistles if you don't just study the way it's supposed to be studied and you just look at it and kind Of pull things out of context.

You could almost say anything you want with any book in the world But the reality is the author just like any author has a plot has a message

That it wants to convey that he wants to convey and there's a way of getting to the bottom of that message

That's pretty clear through throughout the scriptures. So I think that's where some of the debate issues

But when it comes down to the fundamentals of who Christ is What salvation is all about how an individual is saved

Christ being fully God and fully man? The assurance of salvation, you know, all those kinds of things

Are pretty clear throughout the scriptures and it you have to really rest things out of context to disagree

And so there are people do that though that will that will not really read the scriptures in a proper way

And they'll just take things and oh, well, it says this and just pull it out and make it say something that it isn't I think that's have a lot to do with us to come down with Come down to how you how you interpret the scriptures itself is is important but the means that you use and therefore you really answered a

Question that I was going to ask before Johnny wrote in There is a teaching that Those who are heirs of the

Protestant Reformation Believe is a very important doctrine the purpose cuity of Scripture Which basically means that the scriptures are clear.

They're plain. They're intelligible. They're transparent But at the same time those same scriptures teach that there are very

Strict qualifications for somebody who's to be a teacher in the church And the the scriptures

Worn against the sin of pride and so on So we should not be so arrogant and proud that we don't that we think that we don't need anybody else to help us

Understand the scriptures and because we're all sinners and infallible and finite we are not all going to Have the same depth of knowledge on every issue in The Bible that others have been gifted to have like for instance, you could even have somebody who is a genius who is a

Bible scholar and yet Eschatology might be something that he's ignored for years or just It's something that he just hasn't delved into enough to form solid conclusions and you could even have a brilliant Bible scholar who rejects reformed theology and yet, he is still a brother because he believes in the primary points of the gospel and the the pillars of the faith like the

The virgin conception of Jesus Christ his sinless life his atoning death is physical bodily resurrection his ascension into heaven his ruling and reigning at the right hand of the

Father and The deity of Christ the Trinity, you know all these things that we share

Does it trouble you as much as I am troubled that there is a new breed of those who profess to believe in the

The tulip who Condemned to hell anybody who does not believe in those things.

Oh It completely troubles me. I know a lot of people I've met many people who would who would hold to the

Armenian standpoint of Tulip right who would not agree with tulip who would be more

Armenian in there and they're leaning Who in in their Christian life would put people like me to shame who are just faithful Christ loving people who love the gospel

Again, I think that they're I think that they're in error when it comes to those issues

But they are just real good warriors of the faith. They're out there preaching the gospel mission -minded

And so, you know when there's no because you said Chris, there's no perfect church and even those who who may have more of a more an understanding of some of the deeper doctrines of Scripture there are times when some of those individuals can be full of pride and arrogance and Even fall into hyper

Calvinistic type views and things like that and and even condemn people and have by way of Attitude and by way of the way that they treat others

They do great damage and harm to the very doctrines that should humble us So I agree.

I mean, there's a lot of brothers and sisters and a lot of different denominations I think I think if we can agree on to me if I would have said what are the what are the main?

Tenets of the faith that are that we cannot That are not up for discussion or dispute.

It would have to be the five solace right the description alone is our authority It was justified by faith alone in the

Lord. You thought I should say we're just about by grace alone True faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, and it's all for the glory of God alone

I think if we if we could agree on those five things And when I talk about the doctrine of Christ alone, that would be including who he is as to his divine and human humanity both full natures

I think there's room for Disagreement in some of the areas, you know that that doesn't determine somebody's unsafe

If you study church history, and I would recommend people do this I think that really gave me a good appreciation for for just having a sense of compassion toward people

You look at a lot of the people we respect in church history all the way back from the beginning throughout into the

Reformation beyond You know that they didn't have it all together either. You know that it and they didn't have the kind of shoulders to stand on that we have now and there are a lot of people today who might look at some of those people in The past to a very faithful will lay down their lives for the faith and condemn them

Because they help a certain views that today we realize as we've stood on shoulders and as we've seen doctrine develop and mature more

Understanding of teach doctrine through history We might if people look back and try to apply it today's standard to them and condemn them to hell and yet They were very faithful people who you know live and die for the faith

So I think you know, we need to be careful and there are there are people who you know Who just unfortunately don't know how to treat people with respect and and love who hold to those

Tenets of the faith that are most important. We have a Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County Who says

I have heard even some Reformed Baptist scholars

Say that we should not identify Christians as Sinners, even though these same people would never believe in the heresy of sinless perfectionism

They believe that we do sin, but the actual phrase sinners is

In their minds only to be used for those who are lost or reprobate Do you agree with this?

Well, you know, I guess it depends on what they mean by sinners, you know I can understand what the person with the individual saying

What some of these people are saying and because there's a sense in which? When you when you if I went on Facebook, for example, and I just said to everybody

Hello. How are you? My fellow Christian sinners? I'm a sinner to moral sinners and and then

I give the gospel in that context people may See that as me saying basically that we have a warrant to sin and the gospel is an easy believer in gospel as long as Our faith in Christ you can continue to live on and sin

So there has to be a sense in which we we say yes We still struggle with sin every day in some sense and we're talking about issues of pride or in the heart

We still struggle. We're in that fight and we strive but we're not given over We're not owned by that sin anymore.

And that's the big difference from just saying hey, you know, we're sinners in that sense I think it depends on how you define it.

I Wouldn't have a problem saying that we that we still sinner. We're still sinners in that sense

I would just be guarded only because you have to we have to think that you know What what is the world how is the world understanding our language when we when we use that term?

How are people understanding are they thinking that we're saying? Hey, I'm a Christian. I'm in Christ But I'm not sleeping around with women and you know

Doing drugs and or whatever. I'm just doing all kinds of things that it doesn't matter because I'm a sinner anyway

You know We have to put we have to put some sense of or get some sense of understanding to help people

Understanding that term and in the reform faith. We know what it means We can say because we understand who

God is and the nature of his perfect law There's a very real sense in which there's not a there's not a second that goes by where we're not in pure Ourselves that we our best motives are to some degree laced with impurity so we understanding the nature of God have a high view of God's holiness and his being and a high view of the severity of sin and can say we are sick and But those who are outside of the faith those who don't know

I'm more comfortable saying those who are unsaved. Those are unbelievers You know, they're not viewing the word sinners in the same way we are they're thinking of it as more that it's okay and we could be comfortable and You know

You could do whatever you want as long as you said this prayer and there's a lot of people out there in the Christian faith Who are okay with that and presenting that and so you don't want to identify with that So I guess

I'm saying I could sympathize with those who aren't comfortable using that term, but the reality is we are

And I'll bet you that most I'll bet you that most if not all of Those folks even the reformed ones or perhaps especially the reformed ones

Who say oh, we should never call Christians sinners, I'll bet you they all sing amazing grace grace who saved a wretch who saved a wretch

Like they in fact it disgusted me that some people

Have taken that out of the the lyric like for instance when Phil Driscoll Performed that song at least on one of his albums.

He replaced it with who saved someone like me And that that takes away the whole amazing part

We need Christ as much today as we did when we were first saved and before and after and we always will until we get

That we Okay You know

We'll take away the God, you know, my my righteousness from you and let you go forward from here on in we'll be instantly

You know sawdust, you know, we would be we'd be like But you know returning back to Sodom and Gomorrah lots wife, you know the reality is when we again when if you if you if we understand anything about the holiness of God in his nature and Understand anything about our hearts and just that the fight that's constantly going on within us each day and just the

The the part of us that is always it's like Paul says, you know Like that Roman seven or in Galatians is the war of the you know, the spirit was against the flesh

That's a reality for every Christian and when we understand that there's a real sincere part of us that wants to oppose

God still It's still part of us that that it doesn't want to do what God wants us to do

We know that we're the reality is that that's still really part of us that we're still not complete and we're still walking in the

Righteousness of Christ as much today as we were when we were first saved now, we have been sanctified We're not what we once were we've improved.

We should be fighting against sin We should be learning to love others more and we're doing better in that sense

But we're not doing better in a sense where we're justified by any of that or could be justified by any of that in the light

Of God's Holy Spirit. That's just never happened. He's people you look at how righteous he is So I think that's where the problem is with with with people saying that but I can understand like I said why they say that Because you have to be careful with how the unbeliever what they understand by you saying that I'm a sinner

And especially when you have easy believism and you know, Joel Osteen Oh this guy's out there You don't even teach about repentance and all that stuff

You just have to believe the gospel when you want when you know that that's out there We have to be more nuanced and careful on what we say

Yeah, well, you know Very well since you were one of those ministers who placed me under discipline that I was a drunkard but I one of the things that I Really oppose in the philosophy of a a and Na is that they say that a necessary element of a

True road to recovery is to forever for the rest of your life until you're dead you identify yourself as an alcoholic or a drug addict and I don't say

I'm Chris Arnzen and I'm an alcoholic I say I'm a Chris Arnzen and I was a drunkard and I was delivered by the grace and mercy of God from that wickedness

I don't I don't I choose not to take it because I know that that temptation would be strong for me Right, right in that area, but no, it'd be like somebody saying hey,

I'm so -and -so without but I'm a homosexual You know, I'm a Fornicator, you know,

Paul says such were some of you, you know, you're not you're not that's not your identified label You're you're in Christ and that's your label, you know, so there's that balance there and how you would address that and of course

Of especially those who are not biblically literate and those perhaps who are from Roman Catholicism or other

Folks that profess to be Christian and by the way folks if you're

Catholic and you're being offended by this well one of the most beloved

Catholic apologists Patrick Madrid Has said a number of occasions when he has spoken at Catholic conferences

If you're looking next to the person if you're looking at the person next to you in the audience And he has a

Bible on his lap. You could probably be 95 % sure. It's an evangelical So even even he said that but what

I'm intending to say here is that Many people when they hear the word sinner sinner, they only think of the scandalous extreme

And They don't recognize that even a thought a passing thought that is adulterous

Renders us guilty of the actual sin of adultery in the sight of God. That's not to say that in the sight of the church

We are to deal with people that way because everybody in the church would be excommunicated

If we have if we held that high of a standard on earth with each other but in the sight of God, we are guilty of adultery, even just by thinking about it and I can remember when

I was organizing my very first Roman Catholic debate on Long Island between dr.

James R. White and Roman Catholic apologist Jerry Matitix this very sweet woman

Roman Catholic lady Who is very excited about the event and she came from my memory to nearly all of them

For those ten years. I did those debates She was a very sweet humble gentle woman

But she I remember her coming into my office holding the poster and The theme of the debate was

Mary sinner saved by grace or a sinless Queen of Heaven She said why do you call

Mary a sinner? What do you think she's she was some kind of a whore or something?

I said no I don't think that it is that the only type of person that is a sinner.

I mean, you know don't don't we sin every time we have a

Thought of pride where we view ourselves more highly than we ought We ourselves more highly than our brothers and sisters around us or what you could go on and on with the things that We would

Flippantly view as immaterial or unimportant those same sins will send somebody to hell without the covering of Christ's blood

Am I right Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like I said with Mary it, you know

And this is where you we got to be careful from the other extreme not to go the up not to go upset the other

Side of the horse Mary was definitely an exceptional woman. She was probably a godly woman from a young age

You know, she probably put many wants to shame in a sense you probably you know, but but she had he was a sinner and And there were things that she did in her life

But if God would hold her at her to that standard to his standard based on what she had left She would be condemned like everybody else so it's it's not that we don't have a respect for her and in the sense of how

God used her and and Somebody we could look up to many ways She even thought she even thought along with her other sons

Those that actually had father as a Who have actually had

Joseph as a biological father other than Jesus himself, obviously She Joined them in thinking that Jesus had lost his mind

Even though she had known before she before she even conceived She knew who this child was, but somehow she had amnesia at that point

That's one of the most mysterious parts of the Bible to me how Mary could have thought that way even though she knew that she was a virgin who conceived she knew what the angel had said to her and even

Joseph had the affirmation from So, I mean But we now are going through our final break

It's much shorter than the last one If anybody else would like to join us on the air our email address is

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Welcome back, this is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about ten minutes to go is

Pastor Mark Rimaldi of Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

We are discussing his soon -to -be -published book, The Christ, The Whole Christ, and Nothing but the

Christ. And we have John in Sharpsburg, Georgia. Just a quick note, even

Paul, a mighty servant of God, considered himself to be the chief of sinners.

Yes, that's very true. In fact, perhaps you could shed some light on that for me,

Pastor Mark. That's the famous text from 1 Timothy 1, verse 15, and probably most well -known by the

King James Version's rendering of that, because most of the other translations don't use the word of whom

I am chief, but they say of whom I am foremost of all, and other ways of phrasing that.

But is Paul saying, the Apostle Paul, was he saying that he was in reality the worst sinner that ever lived, or was he just perhaps referring to the fact that he had persecuted

Christ's church before he was saved on the road to Damascus?

If you could shed some light on that. Yeah, no, that's a good question. I think you can see that in two ways.

One, certainly when you look at what Paul states in the other epistles and how he was an axe, you can see that there's a sense in which he never forgot where he came from, and so he did know, he always knew at the forefront of his mind how he had persecuted the church, how he had treated

Christians, and so on. So there's no question that that is an implication of that there as well. But there's also, the interesting thing about that text is when

Paul says that, he doesn't say that I was the chief of sinners, or I was foremost, it's in the present tense.

Yeah, because there's a debate amongst, even amongst Calvinists, as to whether the man in Romans, is it 7 or 8 right now,

I'm losing my mind, when Paul is referring to himself in some very horrible and wicked terms, and there are some who believe he must be referring to himself before his regeneration.

Romans 7, yeah, there's a big debate, is that some of the language in Romans 7 lends itself to seeing

Paul as the Jew before he was saved, some of the things he says, because he uses words like,

I was sold as a carnal, or I am, and then some would see it more in the sense of the battle that goes on in the present, and Paul speaking about himself, what

I will to do I don't do, in the present sense. I take that more in the present sense when I look at that, but I do see how some people come from the other angle.

But either way, when you look at, like I said, Galatians, you know, what Paul talks about, the battle against the flesh and the spirit,

I can see why Paul would still say, in that text of Timothy, in the present tense, because Paul is somebody, remember, was walking even closer with God, you know, very close with God, he's receiving visions,

God has to humble him to fall in the flesh, I think the more you, the closer you walk with the

Lord, I think the more you see, kind of like what Isaiah saw, right? Isaiah was probably one of the most godliest people when he had said those words, he was already a prophet, and he had said that I'm a man of unclean lips, you know, when he saw the glory of God, you know, he was completely just undone, and that was

Isaiah as probably a man of God, to some extent, you know, but I think the closer you get to God, and Paul was certainly walking closer to the

Lord, I think you see, as we talked about before, you can see some of the, just the ugliness within our own hearts, even in the present, and that doesn't mean

Paul's out fornicating or doing, you know, we're not saying that, but he could see that, the reality of pride, the reality of covetousness, whatever, some of those inner things that are at the heart, and be able to say,

I'm the worst. So I would take more of a stance that would, like a balance would say that I'm sure he's including what he has done in the past to some extent, but the fact that he uses that in the present tense,

I don't think we can just limit that to the past, because he doesn't say, you know, I was, and he's not afraid to use the past tense, you see him do it in other cases,

I was, you know, a persecutor of the people of God, or whatever I did there, so I, you know, you see that a lot in his language, he'll use the past tense, but in that sense, he's speaking in the present.

I agree with you, and I saw an informal debate on that many years ago, back in the 1990s, and I agreed with the side that you just identified yourself with, although I believe that the main reason, it seemed, that compelled some fellow

Calvinists to reject Paul, reject the interpretation that it was

Paul speaking in it, about his current condition, is that they did not want to give sway to the cheap grace, easy believism notion of carnal

Christianity, that somebody could be an unrepentant, wicked individual, and even...

And I just preached on that this past Sunday, actually, and I was saying, one of the statements I made, I'm at the very end of the

Sermon on the Mount, and the Lord spoke about, you know, that there are going to be people who are going to come to him, and not everyone who comes to him and calls him

Lord, Lord, is going to be welcomed in, and he talks about how they'll, you know, depart from the work of lawlessness, it's those who do the will of God, and so on, so there is, the whole idea of a carnal

Christian, to be labeled like that is definitely unbiblical, but a Christian can act carnally at times, and we do, we fall short, so I think that's,

I can see why they're trying, we have to be careful that even though we want to protect the sanctity of the

Gospel, and the idea of a Christian having to walk in holiness, and we do, we need to emphasize that we don't want to go to the extreme that we, as we talked about before, that we make

Christianity out to be something where it's an impossible faith, in the sense where we're saying we're perfect and we're without sin, and that we don't sin, and that if we hold ourselves to God's standard, even at any moment, that we need it, so that there's a balance there, and we have to trust the

Holy Spirit to do that work, and that's why when we preach, we preach the whole counsel of God, if you preach both sides of the same coin, you'll see that there is this striving against sin, there is this conviction of sin, this dealing with sin, this wrestling with sin, a state of imperfection, but a state of growing in Christ, and forging ahead, as opposed to just comfortably living in sin, on one side of the equation, or on the other side of the equation, saying that we're not sinners at all, you know, both of those are not healthy.

And you know what makes, to me, anyway, Jesus' warnings in Matthew chapter 7 more terrifying, is that those whom he is speaking to on Judgment Day, who thought they were going to be welcomed into the, welcomed into eternity with Christ, they were not, that we know of, drunkards and homosexuals and murderers and rapists, they were religious people, who were even performing miracles, and casting out demons in Jesus' name, and I don't know what your conviction is, but I believe that they were performing miracles,

I don't think that they were charlatans, because Jesus never says, no, you didn't do those things, he just says, be gone from me, you workers of unrighteousness,

I never knew you. And that's why, that's why, Chris, the emphasis on the work of the

Spirit is not on the gifts, because somebody can have gifts, like, but even to those extent, they've had those kinds of gifts,

Judas Iscariot, when you look at the scriptures, he was involved with those miracles that, when the disciples were sent out, the twelve, he was one of them, and they were casting out demons, raising the dead,

I mean, you read the text, it says it right there, clearly, he was involved with that, and yet we know that he was not saved, so the emphasis on the

Spirit, by looking for, speaking in tongues and all those things, that's contrary to when the scripture says it's the fruit of the

Spirit, love, joy, peace, you know, gentleness, goodness, kindness, those are the things, those are the real evidences of the

Spirit, in a salvific sense, not just the signs and the wonders, you can have the signs and the wonders, even in truth, you could have had those, or have those, and still not be a

Christian. Well, Pastor Mark, I'd like you to have, let's say, three minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before we conclude this program, and I already know that I'd like to have you return in June, when our first openings are on the calendar, to continue this discussion, because we really only got into the first chapter of your book, and even though it's a short book, we only got into the first chapter.

Yeah, that'd be great. In fact, by then, we'll be getting to the point where I'll have the book, and I'd like to offer free copies, too, to anybody who calls in, that kind of thing, so we can do that.

When we have the second interview, I'll be ready to do that. Yeah, but just what

I would leave in the hearts of the individuals, for those who are listening, I would say, you know, and this would come from the context of talking about the book,

I would say we need to make much of the Lord Jesus Christ, is what it comes down to.

In the book, when I talk about the Christ, the whole Christ, and nothing but the Christ, that is,

Christ is the central figure, He provides the central work of all of history, of salvation, of everything that matters for us, is all bound up in who

He is, as fully God, and as fully man, as our representative, who replaces

Adam, who failed, we failed on Adam, but He is our representative,

He is also fully God, and He alone can save us. We cannot add to that in any sense.

We're still imperfect, we're still a work in progress, but the glory of the Gospel is that He who began a good work in us will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus, and so I would just encourage those who are out there listening to keep your eyes on the

Lord Jesus Christ, keep being in the Word, trust in Him and Him alone, and you will walk faithfully with Him, if that's where your heart is fixed.

Praise God. Well, don't forget, folks, if you want to find out more information about Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, go to gracereformedbaptistchurch .org,

gracereformedbaptistchurch .org. Pastor Mark Romaldi, it's been an honor and privilege and joy to have you back on the program as it always is.

I look forward to your return. If you could stay on the line, I will schedule you on the calendar in June, and I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater