TiL- Esther 3:8-15

The Need for Moral Courage in Public Life

Statesmen who stand by principle rather than seeking their own comfort and welfare are rare. They are needed and we need to train up our children men women and children Who are who have the moral guts and have the moral character to stand strong even if everybody else is against them.

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to truth and love podcast. We're so glad that you are with us and Dan. It's done it again. It is not. It's not going on Facebook. It is going on YouTube only. So what I'm going to try to do here is there we go is copy the link and I'm gonna paste it real quick.

To the best of my ability. So we can move right along. How you doing. You doing okay today. I'm doing great.

Before a while because my My allergies decided that they wanted to jump up and attack me when I got home from work, but we're gonna make it.

Well, you you your family's been pretty sick. Have they recovered? They don't. Well.

Two weeks ago, we had a stomach bug and We were not doing well at all. We're doing we're doing a lot better now. Last night well yesterday about.

About.

334 o 'clock. The wind was so strong up here that I Heard a tree fall somewhere in the woods around our house and then maybe 20 minutes later the power went out. We didn't get power back to Almost 830 last night.

Yeah, so we I was able to squeak out a text message because when I'm at home I don't have service unless I have the Internet. So I was able to you know, find a high spot and squeak out a text message saying I wasn't gonna be able to make it yesterday.

Yeah, and so as you see the lights are on the Internet's working and we're back at it this evening.

Yeah, that was that was the reason for my post the last night. You know, our lives are just like everybody else's life happens stuff comes up power goes off people get sick and We're just not able to keep our schedule even though we really want to but we're thankful to be back together.

Speaking the Truth in Love

This is like I said, this is truth and love we get that from Ephesians chapter 4 verse 15. But speaking the truth and love we were to grow up in all aspects into him who is the head even Christ. And so we that's that's our aim and our goal is to speak the truth.

But also speak the truth and love because we know we know who we are apart from Christ we know what God has saved us from we we don't proclaim to be anybody of just just beggars who Know where to find bread and it's exponentially even greater than that.

We we're dead men who've been made alive by Christ. Enemies who've been made his friend because of what Christ has done. And so we have no cause to speak. In a way that's where we're better than anybody else or look down on anybody anybody else.

We want to speak that truth. We want to speak it in love. So that's that's what we want to do. Hopefully folks will tune into the YouTube tonight live so we can have some comments. Or maybe some questions.

So if you're joining us leave a comment question if we can pray for you. Just let us know that too. Y 'all you have to do is type me. You don't have to say what it is. Well publicly, we'll we'll see that we'll pray for you.

Before we get into Esther. We're gonna this is Esther chapter 3 part 2. We're gonna look at verses 7 through 15 tonight. But quickly just a little introduction want to try to talk on maybe some current issues of the day.

To make it a little more interesting. We threw out a few things maybe talking about the end of school and what what kids could be doing at the end of school. Let's see Juneteenth was yesterday and also June 19th is also Charles Spurgeon from understanding Charles Spurgeon and My John MacArthur's birthday on June 19th, so Happy birthday to John MacArthur and Charles Spurgeon.

We can talk about Mother's Day and it was Father's Day. Happy Father's Day, Dan. Happy Father's Day, Rob. And you're about to have a new one. Yep, is is your wife doing? Okay. So yeah, she's doing she's doing pretty good.

Baby's healthy. She's healthy.

That's fantastic. But Dan wanted me to talk about just briefly Some of the things that went on at the Southern Baptist Convention The other weekend and I posted a few things and rubbed a few feathers.

And I can I can appreciate because I can appreciate where I came from. I was born and raised and I've remained in the Southern Baptist Convention and you know, that's I think that's part of. Part of maybe what scripture would call us to the gospel would call us to.

Danny, excuse me, Dan Claude even mentioned it last Week in the laborers podcast concerning church membership. No, last time was church discipline. The time before that was church membership and he expressed that his thoughts were Church membership should be similar to to marriage to where we when we make a covenant.

We we go into an agreement with the church that we we should kind of stick it out now. Now there are reasons for leaving a church and There will be reasons for for leaving a convention and and moving to a different association or convention.

And and those would be you know, doctrinal issues. And some people have have made that leap from the Southern Baptist Convention some people I think Dan will be one of them. And maybe you can talk about that Dan.

What you're what your reasoning was then? And I think there's gonna be more to come it seems like you know listening to some of the chatter. There may be more to come leaving the Southern Baptist Convention.

Is that something you want to mention real quick?

Well, I was only really a part of one Southern Baptist Church. Okay the situation for us leaving was.

Weird.

And I.

Don't think it would speak to the the situation going on now. But I would like to say this the church that we were a part of is Seems to be doing really well, and I just love to see it. I love to see the updates seeing some of the kids that we had in youth group growing up and loving the Lord.

Some of them. They're they're starting a school there. Good stuff. So no, I'm not I'm not gonna dog on no Southern Baptist churches, even if the convention seems to be Iffy suspect at some points because because really what one of the weird things about the Southern Baptist Convention is that Each church still remains autonomous.

Wow coming together.

To do.

Certain things which I guess is The big issue. No. We're going to be us and you're gonna be you but we're gonna come together pull our money in order to you know. Train ministers and churches and share the gospel.

But at what point are the ones that we're linking arms with. Should we not link arms with them? No, wait, how far is too far?

Um, let me edit that comment real quick. You said at what point. I'm gonna say at what cost.

That there's that too. Yeah, there's a lot of money involved. Any reputation. A whole bunch of different stuff?

Well, not not just monetary or reputation wise but doctrinally sure, you know, what doctrines are you willing to compromise on? What what doctrines are you willing to look past and disagree on which which are disagreeable and which ones aren't.

I mean, that's that's the conversation that that we're Should be having. And many should be having. Not how many can we look over? But you know, which which ones? Which was define us and and Our standards that we should hold to to keep us together and and those lines are being blurred day by day, it seems like.

There were there were several things and of course admittedly and and I think I saw this accusation. Thrown out there online, you know. Talking to people who were making comments about what happened that weren't actually there.

Do what was it on Twitter? It could have been a dumpster fire. Anyway. But yeah, you have that up accusation out there, you know. If you if you weren't there you can't speak to it and I'm sure that there was a lot of fellowship a lot of camaraderie a lot of love that was shared hugs handshakes and.

And I would have been a part of you know, all that as well and I would have enjoyed the the missions testimonies the. The the commissioning of missionaries, um, you know probably a lot of heartwarming good good stuff that was gospel centered Christ centered and.

And no doubt there there's so many of us that are Christ centered and and care deeply about the gospel and about evangelism and missions and the kingdom. Many many out there even even with people that we disagree with and I've heard I heard that comment as well.

I believe it may have been from Tom Askew, you know people we disagree with.

That.

That he has friends with that. I have friends with within the convention. That and that's that's kind of the whole nature like you were talking about with the SBC where we can have disagreements yet. Come and pull our resources together but.

Then the conversation that we're talking about needing to happen is you know, those those disagreements. Which which doctrines can we look over which are standard and you know, you made a good comment before we came on.

There there's some of the convention that want to look over some doctrines and call them secondary issues.

But.

The difference between you and I is, you know, I'm still currently in a Baptist Church more specifically a Southern Baptist Church you're in a more you're in a Presbyterian Church and the difference there between the two of us is is baptism and the nature of baptism and the the the practice the actual physical practice of baptism.

Do you guys sprinkle. Um pour what. What's your method? Yes.

Okay.

Depending on on who you are and what you want. My pastor anyway will do all all of the above. Sprinkle pour. He'll I mean if you really want to he'll find some water and dunk it.

Hmm. Okay, so Southern Baptists and and I would say that all Baptists. That's one of our distinctives is Baptism believers baptism by immersion and and you they hold to both Tightly. Without any without letting go or loosening at all.

Baptism of believers and by immersion has Has to be both but yet as you said earlier That's a secondary issue yet that that's one that has become our standard and and we can't. We would not allow a Presbyterian Church into the Southern Baptist Convention because of baptism and you're the nature of in your practice of it and so.

Which which secondary issues are we going to you know, be our standard and which which are not?

Yeah, I can kind of understand when you put Baptist in the name perhaps that would be one if you want to. But yeah, I mean there's there's other stuff a The Presbyterian former church government, I mean we're having yeah next week we're having or not next week.

Tomorrow Wednesday. I don't know sometime this week is the RPC and a Synod which is the equivalent of General Assembly in the PCA and the OPC. Roughly the equivalent. There's some nuance there, but we won't get into all that right.

If we were to to. If our church were to join the Southern Baptist Convention as a reformed Presbyterian Church and we were to call together different pastors and Hear a case of church discipline that had gone beyond the church level.

Nobody in nobody looking at us funny. Like why are you trying to cost together? You're autonomous? Well, I know we're kind of all together in this where we're a Presbyterian like no, you're not. See, that would be.

It would be a little bit. It's still a secondary issue. It's not gonna put one or the other out of the kingdom. But it's something that would separate so I guess yeah, you're right. Which secondary issues are.

I.

Don't know how you think of animal farm. Some people are more equal than others. Which which secondary issues are more secondary than others? Yeah. One of the words that come up. Or should they be defined differently?

Is it not that we're gonna do secondary issues, but we're gonna have a a set of distinctives that you must hold to the Primary and secondary issues, right? I don't know seems like those things should be defined.

Then let the chips fall where they may rather than so in discord because some people are screeching one way some are screeching the other there's a Bet you probably a large swath of people in the middle plugging up their their their ears and wishing Mom and dad would quit fighting over it.

Let's just get back in here for yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I.

Don't know how you can't help but expect these things to happen because I mean we have those things that are Distinctive of Southern Baptists that that are non-negotiable for Southern Baptists, which is that believers.

Baptism by immersion? The autonomy of the local church.

I.

Think there may have been one or two more that some others have thrown out there.

I.

Know we try to be known as people people of the book. And so we have a high regard of Scripture. Or supposed to. You know, those things are non-negotiable for for Southern Baptists. Um. But then the other standards that they lay out for fellowship like if you go into the website and you want to You want your church to become a part of the Southern Baptists Convention you have to check a box that says we agree to.

Hold closely. I can't remember the wording exactly so I'm going to mess it up. But hold closely to the Baptist faith and message. Mm. Well, you've got you use that. That qualifying word there closely.

What what does that mean? How closely.

Introvert is way further away than to an extrovert. Yeah, exactly.

And so how can you expect not to have these these squabbles within the convention? Which which to an agree if they're done rightly and I think Tom Askew spoke to this too in one of the videos that I watch.

They can be useful and helpful and needed. And we wouldn't call them squabbles we would call them. Doctrinal conversations amongst people who disagree and and they don't need to you know, I've heard of I've heard of them happening.

Behind closed doors, you know the top dogs. You know, I think and this wasn't in the Southern Baptist Convention. But I remember in one of in one thing that I heard. One of the podcasts I listened to years ago, I think and it it was a years ago that John MacArthur R .C. Sproul and and some other guys, you know, they they got in a room and they just talked about doctrinal issues.

And I and I think there was some heat involved. Some heated debate in that and and heated debate is good, too. If it's if it's done properly with love and respect and I think that's what was being called for so.

That we can. And there's got to be a purpose. The the purpose is to help us. Make our make our path more clear. Make our fences and boundaries more clear and not less or. And not more blurry. It seems like we want to keep the lines blurry so that we can not offend people and and keep the big givers In in our good graces.

Which is which is a bad motivation. So all these things. Ultimately all these things that I see happening that I that I watch that I've heard this year and over the years. It just to me it boils down to.

It boils down to the scripture and. How we interpret it how we're going to obey it. You know, if we don't have a high view of scripture and we can look over doctrine easily. And if we don't have a high view of scripture then we can interpret it, you know, however we want to.

So I.

Think all these issues are just symptoms of a greater problem that we have. What were you gonna say? I.

Don't know.

No, oh, yeah. We're supposed to be united as a people but The the unity that comes is a unity in the truth of Scripture.

I.

Forget where it's in the New Testament. Oh I don't know. I still know we we hold the the The the the. How do you put it. We're all delivered to the Saints. Yeah.

You're gonna say we hold these true self heaven.

Document altogether.

Yeah.

The the. We have a bond of unity and peace because we have one faith one Lord and one baptism. We have it based on truth. Paul said in in Corinthians that he was glad that there was disagreements among the people there.

So that way they would know who's in and who's out. No, who know who is Truly Christian and who is not so. It's it's okay for us to have some some differences but those differences It's at a certain point.

You.

You can't just. It has to be in areas that are difficult where the passages are difficult to interpret. Or you're having to pull from across the board of Scripture in order to understand a doctrine. Where there is a clear command and you're saying well I'm not going to believe that clear command because I want to do something else.

I'm gonna call it a cultural difference to justify my case. Yeah. Which happens Way too often. That's that's like the go-to if I don't like what the Bible says here. So that was a cultural context back then that doesn't apply to us in the same way.

You hear that across the board from The abortion issue. You hear about homosexuality. Hear it about female pastors and elders.

That.

You hear it all over like this seems to be a favorite go-to. Oh that was then this is now right. No, the Bible may have said that that was okay to not have female pastors. But it also had that little space in between the lines that you didn't read.

It says after the first 2 ,000 years and you just whatever goes. Read that part you should have. It was. That was one of the verses that was left out by the new the new translators of the NIV and the ESP.

That's why you need to hold to the 16.

It is probably related to that 2 ,000 year gap in the.

Tucked in that gap. Yep, exactly.

Well, just just to wrap up the the SPC I mean this this podcast is for the the church go where the pastor local churches in our community. And so there may be a ton of us out there that. Just even Southern Baptist churchgoers.

And even Southern Baptist pastors who just aren't paying attention. We need to pay attention, especially if we're going to associate with somebody we need to pay attention with what's going on. So We need to look at what happened in the past couple conventions we need to look at what's going on in the future.

And just and some of those issues that we need to look and see how they're going to handle those issues. One that was brought up in last convention, but it wasn't brought up in this convention where they It seems like they messed up.

The the issue of critical race theory the the issue of abortion. That we need to see what's going to happen with the Southern Baptist stance on. You know abolition abolishing abortion. How they define pastor.

And and how they deal with ordaining women as pastors because now they want to they want to split. That office that we find in Scripture, you know, what those words are interchangeable in Scripture pastor.

Elder, Bishop, Shepherd. Those words are interchangeable in Scripture. But it's but it's one office and we're going to start seeing folks try to either Split split it up to where you have a you have a lead pastor.

Who can only be a man, but then you have you know. Your children's pastor, your youth pastor, your music pastor, your facilities pastor. Your audio-visual pastor that can be, you know any gender.

Or.

If they don't want to go that route, you know, they'll they'll ordain someone as a as a minister or a director or something.

We've been having women directors that are just thinly veiled pastors for decades. I do have a small bit of advice that I think would do well for just the local. The local churchgoer, local SBC 'er. Maybe even a small church SBC pastor.

If I were you I Would put my money and effort Into my local association and my state association. Far more than the National Convention. The National Convention may be helpful for certain things like like seminary or Even pooling resources for other certain things, but I wouldn't Really the You can affect the most change is at the local level.

Where you're going to drive down to one of the churches in your association? And talk to people across the table where if you're gonna get in a fight you can punch each other and then Take each other out for whatever Baptist go out for after a fight.

I don't I don't know a cup of coffee or something in a piece of pie. But they're the people that you're gonna get dirty with like you're gonna end up getting spit on with these brothers in in all sorts of situations.

They're gonna be close. You're gonna drive by each other's homes, you know, say so-and-so lives here those are the people that you want to spend time with because you need to build a Strong relationship with the people around you.

It's that's more important than building a strong relationship with a National Convention that is just far and away. For instance our Presbytery the Atlantic Presbytery Is a fairly tight-knit Group of people we've got churches know from New York down through I Think Maryland.

I could be wrong. Don't quote me on it. There's about 11 of us 11 or 12 churches and No, I was traveling one Sunday. We just happened to find a reformed Presbyterian Church and we pulled in. He said hey, how you doing?

It's like we're good. Like we we Just came up we were members at the Walton Church like the Walton Church, how's Bill doing? I just saw him the other day. Let me text him real quick and see if you know.

Cuz we're having communion this morning. Let me text him and let him know that you're coming on you're here and you know. We had communion with the with the church there and it was great. But we we talked to those people would pray for one another.

And they're close by so if I were you I would I would really Take my efforts and put them Locally and if you're gonna work together outside of your church, you're gonna pull your resources do it with somebody local You have a lot more control over that situation than you do over a national convention.

And then if everybody would kind of keep their head to the ground and do what they're supposed to a Lot of those national issues would kind of just go away.

The Abuse Issue and Handling It Biblically

Right, I Was trying to find and maybe you can remember what the name of the Association is. But I'll bring it up here and just there it is. I found it so Just one last thing that we need to pay attention to moving forward as Southern Baptists Is the abuse issue that they come up or come out two weeks before the convention.

And how they handle it. Are we we have a book and we need to handle it biblically. We we don't need to handle it according to the world or or to Some agency that's in the world and how they tell us to do it.

They they may have just like anything out in the world because God created everything there. You know, there's truths out there but but we have a book and we have we have a God who tells us how to handle things and we need to handle It biblically and some like I said some may compare to some of their suggestions, but Time needs to be taken to handle it biblically and we need to see how the convention is going to handle it.

Speaking of we were talking about Presbyterians not being able to come to the Southern Baptist Church. I did notice in response to the convention and all the talk that's been happening of Gabriel Wrench who's who's a member of Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho and They do the the cross-politic podcast.

He was reaching out to those who were considering leaving the convention and it must be I Don't know what they call it a communion. They call it a communion. It must be What their their church is a member of it's called the communion of Reformed Evangelical churches and he he said that This this is communion where both Baptist and Presbyterian are Welcome and fellowship together.

Yep.

They they do have a Presbyterian Hierarchy to their denomination.

But.

Yeah, you've you can be a church that's a Baptist Church and as long as you send your people to Presbyterian Now act Presbyterian above the church and act Baptist in the church. No, everything works out just fine.

I did go to the website and and watch their promotional video and that there was a whole lot of Baptizing of babies in that video which which to a Baptist, you know. It was kind of hard to watch but the sentiment and and the fellowship that's going on There seems to be really genuine and and good kind of, you know, kind of like what we did here you and I getting together Around God's Word and talking about it studying it together.

So you ready.

That's a denomination where if you're a Reformed Baptist, but you're more Reformed than Baptist. That'd be the way to go. Okay. That's how I was. I was always more Reformed than I was Baptist and then I just became Reformed Presbyterian all together.

So.

Well, that's the thing that's the thing about that I don't get about Southern Baptist.

Or.

Or the Baptist churches that I grew up in I've always heard we're people of the book. We want to be known as people of the book. We want to go by the book but yet our our devotion seems to be tied more toward being Baptist or being Southern Baptist then.

The book that we claim to hold so tightly to yeah, I've never understood that never understood it. And I and I want to hold to the scripture.

Above.

Denominational titles so that that's where I stand. So you ready you ready to jump in Esther? Yeah, let's do it. Good deal. So we're in we're in Esther chapter 3. We're going to start in in verse 7 and go to the end Hopefully in the next 30 minutes but this is It may not seem it seem like it if you read through it, but from my understanding this this is a pretty exciting Pretty exciting passage and just a little bit of Introduction just want to remind everybody the reason that one of the reasons why we went to Esther is is because It's tied it has a purpose of being there's a purpose for it in the Old Testament not just to to learn about Esther and Having a devotion about for such a time as this you were you were raised up for such a time as this there's more to Esther being in scripture than than just Those those little devotional things that we get it's it's put together with Ezra and Nehemiah.

And it's it's at the end of that that 70 year Exile that that Israel was in. And Ezra Nehemiah and Esther are at the end of that where they're going back to Jerusalem fulfilling that prophecy and and we see If we look closely and study we're seeing Other prophecies like from Ezekiel being fulfilled that that we believe people oftentimes misread and See those prophecies way into our future which some of them, you know may still be but they do have a fulfillment that we see here in Esther and We want to help Look at some of those things that that some people may look over when they're Reading through their Old Testament.

That that should we should see These things being tied together when oftentimes they're not. And we've already talked about some of them Ezekiel 37 38 39 Haman. And Daniel like we talked about the time with with Daniel and the 70 70 years exile.

So.

We we are learning learning this history and we're we're trying to learn it learn it accurately and correctly. So we can't we don't mess up our eschatology. So a lot of good a lot of good reasons for looking at Esther at the beginning of Esther.

Haman’s Plot Against the Jews

Chapter 3. Haman decides not to bow to Mordecai for some reason even though even though Haman Excuse me. I got those I got those backwards. Even though Mordecai saved the king a plot to kill the king the the king Xerxes or Ahasuerus decided to promote Haman over Mordecai for some reason.

We don't we don't know that reason but he did and So Haman wanted some honor and people were supposed to bow in honor to to Haman. Mordecai did not. He didn't bow in honor to Mordecai and there was nothing wrong with that.

It wasn't for worship. It was just you know, honoring your leader honor your your king. Just just a form of showing respect and honor. So there was nothing wrong with it except for the background.

That.

Another reason why we want to study Esther and study the Old Testament is because of the history of Mordecai and Haman and the reason why he didn't back down and we're going to get into more of that tonight but uh Earlier in Esther Mordecai told Esther You know, don't tell him you're a Jew but here it finally comes out Mordecai does not bow because he's a Jew and In the in the other we delve into that pretty deeply so far in the other podcast if you want to go back and listen to that, but so that so that's where we are in Esther chapter 3 and We're going to pick up in verse 7.

Let me read a few verses and I'll let Dan give us some commentary. In the first month, which is the month Nicen in the twelfth year of King Ahasuerus Her which is Persian for lot Where they they cast or they they rolled dice cast a lot Was cast before Haman from day to day and for month to month until the twelfth month That is the month of Adar then Haman said to King Ahasuerus.

There is a certain people Scattered and dispersed among the peoples in all the provinces of your kingdom. Their laws are different from those of all other people and they do not observe the king's laws.

So it is not in the king's interest to let them remain. If it is pleasing to the king Let it be decreed that they be destroyed and I will pay ten thousand talents of silver Into the hands of those who carry on the king's business put it into the king's treasuries.

Take it over brother. Oh.

So Yeah, I'm saying Allergy season hits late up here. So, yeah Haman's a piece of work, so he goes to. He goes to figure out what day he wants to commit genocide against the Jews and so he just nonchalantly rolls dice or cast lots or however until proper.

Till he rolled snake eyes basically on a certain day and then that day was the day the following year that he was going to. I think it was a fall year that he was going to go out and You know get the deed done.

But listen the way he puts this so he puts on his salesman hat here when he's talking to the king. Says okay. There's a people and they're dispersed everywhere and all the provinces all over the place they're everywhere.

They're like cockroaches. You may think that they're not there, but they're there they've infested your entire Kingdom. Man, that dude sounds like Hitler. Hey, there's a boy here. They're screwing up everything.

They're sprinkled all throughout. They're ruining all your stuff. They have different laws than we do. They don't listen to your laws. He's trying to paint them as a lawless people. Where? If he would have just looked at the laws of the Jews.

He would have realized that those are some very just laws. In fact, one of the reasons why the law of Moses was given to the people was that way? The other nations could look at their laws say hey, look how just these laws are.

If you didn't just look at the laws, it would have realized that okay. Well, maybe we could take a page out of their book. They're doing something right here.

So.

He says you you don't need to put up with it if you do they're going to infiltrate and take over and ruin your kingdom. The whole thing the the money's gonna go the infrastructure is gonna crumble gas prices are going up.

Everything.

It's gonna be like you remember. Remember the Lion King.

Yeah.

Mufasa is is ruling and everything's wonderful and great. And then some dirty dealing happens and scar takes over and like three months later. Everything stinks and everybody's poor. Yeah.

Sounds familiar.

Anyway, he was saying that's gonna be your kingdom. No Mufasa is gonna get killed. You're Mufasa. You're gonna get killed. Something's gonna happen. You need to wipe them out and wipe them out now now.

This is a part that is really interesting because I don't it's it's weird the way that the the words are put in here. If it pleased the king let it be decreed that they should that they be destroyed. Okay, so number one decree that they're destroyed and I will pay ten thousand talents of silver into the hands of those who have charge Of the king's business.

They may put it in the king's treasuries. I'll hand over ten thousand dollars to your financial advisors do with it. Whatever you want to King. Just sign the papers. Now there's some debate. Where is this money coming from?