Is It a Sin to Have Fur Babies?

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The Fur Baby Question and Why It Matters

Welcome to Bible bashed where we aim to equip the Saints for the works of ministry. We're your host Harrison Kerrig and pastor Tim mullet. And today we seek to answer the age-old question Is it a sin to have fur babies now?

The reason that we're doing this episode is because over the weekend I was scrolling through Twitter and I came across a post that Disturbed me to my very core and it read the following. Pizza slice for my wife.

Thank you. God for putting her in my life and allowing her to love me as her husband now. That sounds nice and and loving and very heartwarming, especially in this holiday season. Until you see the picture that is Posted with it and it is a picture of this man feeding a slice of pizza to his dog with his hands and I was looking at that and and That was essentially the the straw that broke the camel's back where you know, Tim and I we were both like All right, we've got it.

We've got to do an episode talking about pets in our society. It's time to have this conversation. So Tim, I guess we'll just start off by asking Okay, so is it a sin to have? Fur babies to refer to animals as fur babies or or children essentially.

Yeah.

It seems like it's been a conversation that's been building for some time and so let's let's go there but um, yeah. With the question, is it? Okay to have fur babies? I guess it's just one of those questions that could be Taken in several different ways as far as I can tell.

So. The first way to take that seems to be the most straightforward way to take it. Which is probably not what you're intended by the question, but that is the question. You know, is it wrong to attempt through science to create an animal human hybrid, right?

How did you know that. That's exactly what I was trying to ask with that question.

Second second one maybe. Which I don't think you're intending that either but is the is the more general question. Is it okay to have pets, right? So is it okay to have fur babies? Is it okay to have? pets.

Then a third way to take it would be to take it in a way to say is it okay to call pets fur babies.

Is that maybe getting close to where you're going with it? Yeah. Yeah, that's that's probably the closest to what I'm getting at.

With that kind of question. Well, then four though would be though. Is it okay to treat pets like family members? Uh-huh. So, what do you think? What do you want to start?

I guess. Let's start with. Well, you know the post. So the post is about this man treating his dog as his wife. So why don't we why don't we start with the Family members and work our way down to animal human hybrid.

We'll work across the spectrum.

Genesis, Marriage, and the Human Need for Companionship

Yeah, so I don't even know where to start with is it okay to treat pets as family members but I think I can I Guess this is the kind of phenomenon, maybe we could just Step back a bit and then talk about why this is even a question, right?

So obviously We'll start out that way. Just you know, why is this even a question? We're talking about so you saw a post and use Man referring to his pet as his wife and In a lot of ways that's it's the kind of thing that I don't know what to make of that, right?

So I don't know if that's like a tongue-in-cheek kind of thing where it's just Reflective of some, you know animal lover who? is pretty Uncautious with his words or something like that, right? And just as you know Reflecting the fact, you know some kind of sentiment like, you know Dogs are man's best friend or something along those lines, or you know, maybe he has a troubled marriage Bessie over here treated me better than my wife ever did.

But the thing is it's the kind of thing that It's the kind of question that really in some sense, you know is It's the kind of question I've been expecting for a while now and and it's the kind of thing that you've seen building for years and years and years to where.

We really as you know, we live in a world that really does not Understand what the purpose of animals are right? We don't understand how we're supposed to relate to them. I would say but then not only like Society in general, you know, the more that we chuck a Christian worldview and throw it down the drain essentially I think the more confused we are at this very point.

But in the churches it seems to be just as bad right so like that example you gave I mean I could multiply examples. Just like that so for example There is a couple at the church. I went to last and I won't tell you their name to protect the guilty, but they posted a picture on Facebook that was essentially a picture of Of them, you know the couple and their dog and then the dog said had a Shirt on it that said big sis, right?

And that How did we get here? How did we get here? Now, all right, so but that's you know, that's not uncommon at all. Like that kind of thing is not uncommon. Just Things like that now me and you you know, I won't we won't say her name, but we counseled a girl who was essentially You know a high school girl whose parents Are basically, you know, her dad was long picture and her mom Abandoned her and her brother for long periods of time and she was essentially Starving to death because she spent all of you know What little money she made from a part-time job trying to feed her brother and her cat, you know and so I mean that's a sad example, but I mean I I I think this was This kind of issue was really brought home to me and probably you know about six years ago, and I was at a funeral of Church member who whose husband had died and the kids, you know, they were coming and they were in the midst of grieving and everything else but The kids were two single people.

Both of whom you know were career people so there was a guy who was single and the girl who was single and then you know, they're in the midst of this funeral and Their dad just died. And so they're they're coming To the house, you know to figure out what to do with their mom and everything else and both of them come with you know.

They're both single career people and they both come with their pets, right? So they each have their own pet and so instead of getting married, you know. They're off getting a job and you know, first thing they do is get a pet and I mean I I've looked at you know.

Every church I've been at it seems like young people. The first thing they seem to do is It's it's like right when they you know want to start off life. It's first impulse seems to be to get a pet before they even get married, right?

Mm-hmm, so get a pet and then and then couples, you know instead of you know. Just getting married and having some sort of expectation. You're gonna have kids first thing they do is go out and buy a pet, right?

Mm-hmm, and so it seems it seems like Like examples like that could be multiple. I mean, you know, you call Regents Bank for example, and they have some absurd and obscene kind of Whatever that is a call waiting music that's going on.

That basically is trying to persuade you to get a second mortgage on your home. So you can give your furry friend the backyard he deserves, you know. And I mean, it's like we're living in a society right now where we don't we really don't understand what?

Pets are for at all, right? I mean, it's just it's it's overwhelming. It's obvious. It's like we're in some sense Trying to do something with pets that you're supposed to be doing with people, right? So so I mean.

So, I mean whether it's just like you have this deep desire for companionship. And so you you want to get married when instead of you know, you're having a hard time doing that. So you go buy a pet or you have a desire to have a child and so you you know instead of doing that you Get a pet, right?

As a parent or in so I mean I think the natural result of all that is obviously going to be at some point to where you know. You're living in a society which blurred those lines to such a degree that now we're you know, asking a question.

Is it okay to marry your pet, right? But then the question, you know, you're asking is is the question is it okay to treat pets like family members essentially, right? All right, so that that's where we'll start so is it okay to treat pets as pets like family members and and I think I Think this gets at.

Something about the Nate the idea of pet in general that seems to me to be inherently problematic. Okay. Mm-hmm. So it seems like There's a passage in the Bible that seems to be relevant to this as far as I'm concerned and so You know, if you're listening you won't open your Bible open it to Genesis 2 18 and Genesis 2 18.

It seems like you know, if you want to understand why we're here why God made us. Then there's no easier place to go than Genesis and that's a book of origins essentially. But then one of the things that's kind of amazing about this passage is that I mean Genesis tells you, you know in the beginning God made man.

He made man in his own image, right? In the beginning he made him male and female if you want to look at our society and see all the things that are wrong. With our society almost at every single point.

There's almost like a step-by-step reversal about what's happening in Genesis and. And you know one of the more interesting things that is happening in Genesis. And this is something that people don't all often notice is that in Genesis 2 18 The Bible says that the Lord God said it's not good that man should be alone.

Okay. So it's not good that man should be alone. I will make a helper fit for him, right? So God didn't design man to be fundamentally alone. So God creates Adam first and then God is looking at Adam and he's you know, the the interpretation there is it's not good for man to be alone.

So I'm gonna make a helper fit for him and what immediately happens in the passages that God brings, you know. Now out of the ground it says the Lord. Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man.

To see what he would call them and whatever the man called every living creature. That was his name. So the man gave names to all the livestock. So at this point in history, right you have man like as a single singular entity.

Surrounded by animals and yet God describes him as being alone right. Mm-hmm. Think about like the theological implications of that. So man is surrounded by animals and yet he's saying God's describing as being alone and that's not a good state.

So what does God do? He brings all the animals around man to see what he would name him, right? And It says whatever what whatever the man called every living creature. That was his name. The man gave names to all livestock to all the birds of heaven and to every beast of the field.

But for Adam there is not found a helper fit for him, right? Mm-hmm. No helper fit for man while the animal. So what what did God do? Well. Then God makes a woman for the man so that he will not be alone and that he'll have a helper fit for him and that Tells you something about like none of these animals Were meant to be his companion, right?

Wait, so he didn't give him the Golden Retriever and the slice of pizza.

It seems to be the case that. That if that was what God intended there was no need for a woman, right? Right. Yeah, but but then you know, this is this this creation account it says it's not good for man to be alone.

This is I mean, it basically gives us a biblical view of what marriage is in general. Marriage is one man plus one woman in a covenant forever. And that's I mean, this is how you argue against, you know Polygamous marriage you think about the formula one plus one equals, you know, one flesh right one man plus one woman equals one flesh.

That's where you argue from polygamy. That's how you argue Pedophilia, you know, it's one man one woman. It's not one man one child. I mean, that's how you are against homosexuality, right? It's not one man plus one man equals one flesh.

It's one man plus one woman. So it's not good to man to be alone man supposed to look to a woman to be his corresponding helper to be his companion. Right, but then apart from that even having all the animals they are related to this topic.

He's alone, right? So it seems to me that if you're gonna say hey Is it okay to treat pets like family members? Well, like the problem there is just to say that from a biblical perspective. Like a a pet is wholly unsuited to that role.

Right, right make sense, right? Because the pet is not a human and there's a fundamental difference between man and animal man is given dominion over the animal. And I mean, you know, it just is a simple passage when I think it was a Samaritan woman was asking Jesus for healing.

And he looks at her and he says hey, it's not good to give the children's bread to the dogs, right? Mm-hmm. And her response is to say hey, you know. Yeah, but even the dogs eat the bread from the master's table like she didn't seem to be offended by that like a good feminist should have been but.

The problem though is to say that his principle is right like there is a fundamental difference. Like it's immoral like to mix categories in that kind of way to treat. Like there is a care that a person has that he ought to be given To his children that does not belong to animals, right?

Mm-hmm. Now I mean just to give you a funny story along those lines, I mean I I you know, I'm Constantly trying to warn my children. That pets are not people, right? Right? And so I'm trying to tell them this all the time.

And so I like they probably roll their eyes at me because I say so much. But I mean, I am constantly saying pets are not people their food, right? Now I've told them this over and over and over pets are not people to food.

Because I don't want them to fall into this lie that I see that's giving birth to the pizza man, right? Right? Okay one of my kids and I won't tell you it was but um, he found a lizard and Wanted to bring him home and put him in some sort of enclosure.

And he looked at all of us and he said hey, we have a new member of the family today, right? Mm-hmm. And I said, hey, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I that Animal is not a member of our fit. Like I do not love that animal the way that I love you.

I'm not making any commitment to care for that animal that animal can go at the moment. It starts to bother me, right? It can be disposed of. We like this is this is an animal like this. It's not a creature that's made in the image of God like we.

We might think that he's fun or neat to look at and see how he camouflages himself with rocks. But he's we should not love him or treat him as a human or act like he's a human or attributed to him human names as far as that.

Well It may be ironic to attribute him human names. I met human care human emotions and affections and you know treat him as if he's a human being so so yeah No, I think it's fundamentally immoral and a biblical.

To treat pets as family members. So.

Pets, Family Roles, and the Moral Disorder of Modern Culture

You know like we said at the beginning This is obviously a problem that is pervasive in our society right now even in the Christian community I think I. Mean, honestly, I don't even really see a difference personal.

Just anecdotally, I don't really see a difference between Unbelievers and Believers in terms of you know, the way they treat their animals. Do you agree with that? Oh, I mean, absolutely not.

I mean like I I you know, just looking at couples in the church world. We're doing the same thing I mean we the first thing that any couple does is they go out and they get it if they haven't already acquired an animal for themselves it seems like the first thing that they do is Acquire an animal, right?

And then they you know, they obviously Treat them as if they're family members. Despite whatever they claim to be doing and I mean, you know that they do because I test this all the time just because you know I like to You know put people in situations where I'm gonna get more information out of them than they think I am, you know, and so.

But I mean I'm constantly testing this very thing because I mean I you know, I Can't you know people will probably just roll their eyes. I mean think I'm crazy, but I'm doing it for a reason but. But you know, I'm constantly making jokes about like hey, you know Isn't it nice to have an additional food supply in case the zombie apocalypse comes, right?

But no one thinks that's funny but me, you know, in fact I mean, I think it's hilarious. But then no one thinks it's. I mean, no one thinks it's funny. In fact, they think they look at me as if I've said something fundamentally immoral almost every time.

Like I without exception like they look at me as if I've said something fundamentally immoral and that tells you though that That like there isn't like they are they are Treating them like a family member.

Mm-hmm, right? Mm-hmm like. You know what? Why wouldn't you if things got rough and tough? Kill that thing in order to feed yourself or your family if you're starving to death. But then I mean, you know, we live in a society right now where I mean the major plot of like TV shows and movies.

Is that very point right? So like Superman, which one was it with the where the dad walks into the hurricane?

I forgot. I forgot all about that. Oh man man of steel. Yeah, we're here to steal. I mean, yeah. We're the whole plot you guys where he. Uh, yeah. The tornado is coming and the dog is is the dog trapped in the car.

Is that what happened?

Yeah, and then he like doesn't let Superman save him. He goes in the car and You know, I was like, let me go save the dog, you know, it's like that's not here heroism, right? That's that's insanity. Like that's like, you know, but that's the major plot of a TV show.

This is us or whatever. Where the house is burning down and the dad goes in there to save the dog and ends up dying. And then they have to deal with it, you know, it's like this is immoral. This is not like greater love has no man than to lay down his life for his pet.

You know, it's like come on, you know, like this is this is sub biblical. This is sub Christian, you know this is this is. This is not even remotely Helpful in any way, you know, but anyways, you know, I don't see I don't see the difference.

Okay. Uh-huh, right. I don't see the difference in the Christian world. We we. We may not be yet at the point where we're gonna, you know, hold out a slice of pizza and You know call the dog or wife, but we've done everything else, right?

But go ahead and so. You know, like like we said there there's not really a difference between unbelievers and believers in terms of how they treat their animals, so.

Um, I guess first. Yeah, I mean example of that is Karen swallow prior Former professor at Liberty. Basically says she has a more visceral reaction to like an animal being abused than the thought of abortion.

So this is this is a problem, okay, but anyways good, um, so I Guess the first I guess the first step in the question would be so. Your argument was was essentially, you know, hey Genesis is showing us that Adam was alone.

Even when all of the animals were there. He was naming all the animals. They were all around him. He was still alone and God said that it wasn't good for him to be alone. So he makes a helper. He makes Eve and he says that.

That it's very good. Right that uh, right that Eve is with him as a helpmate. He names Eve and he's now no longer alone so so that tells us that you know, obviously We've in some way elevated animals to a position that they weren't meant to fill.

But then what does that mean for us? Morally, I mean is it is this just like a Like a hey, you know, whoops my bad or is this like as a sin we're talking about is this unwise Actions that we're taking unwise things that we're saying unwise views that we're Applying to our animals or is this something worse?

Is this is this to the point where you know? It's we're in like sin territory now. Yeah, I mean I guess just maybe you could clarify what is the this oh the this would be Treat, you know treating animals as a member of the family whether it's you know, the the you know dog wife or It's fur babies or whatever, you know, it's the lizard that's now Joined your family.

You know, where is this falling in terms of moral categories.

Sin, Idolatry, and the Rejection of Human Companionship

Yeah, treating pet as a family member. I think I Think it's a difficult question to answer because There's obviously a spectrum of people who are doing things along these lines. And so in some sense, it's like it's hard to Talk about like something, you know, like the Like the couple or whatever who has the dog in there basically Has a big sister shirt on it or something like that, right?

Like If you were to confront them about it It might be that the response is hey, yeah, I know that they're not their actual sisters. Come on, man, just like lighten up a little bit and it's just right, right.

It's just a joke. Yeah as far as that goes, but then the problem is it's like it obviously doesn't seem like a joke. The problem is it obviously doesn't seem like a joke because it seems like you love this animal as much as you'd love a human being and Like your life revolves around this animal and you treat it as if it's a kid.

You talk about it as if it's a kid, right? You act as if it's a kid. I mean like you Like you're turning, you know from for a long time. You've turned to these animals to do for you what human beings should do.

And so you'll forgive us if we think perhaps that there might be possibly something a little bit more to it than just a joke. Right. Mm-hmm. So there's that I mean, I think but you know, obviously people when it comes right down to it They are gonna retreat to hey, I was just joking right or just quit taking everything.

So seriously, you know line up or Whatever else and you can't really, you know judge the heart when it comes right down to it. And so there is that kind of basic problem, but but I mean I would I would say that You know Satan's plan is At every single point to undermine everything that you see happening in Genesis, right?

So God like basically gave us the book of Genesis to tell us, you know, basic questions like who are we? Why are we here? Where do we come from and where we're going, you know, all those basic worldview kind of questions.

And so if you read Genesis, then what you find is, you know God made us and he made a stink distinct from the animal. He's given us dominion over the animals and so Like we're living in a society right now that you know, basically finds it more immoral for Joe Biden to experiment on puppies, right?

Cause them harm then to create a vaccine that is going to. That is done with aborted humans. And so Satan's plan is obviously to mix those things up. So God says hey we have dominion of the animals. God's made us male and female and they told us to be fruitful multiply in.

Every single one of those components is being under attack under attack at every single conceivable level. And so, you know knowing that then essentially like if you're the girl who's saying hey, you know, I want to be married I can't so let me go out and buy a dog, right?

Mm-hmm. All right. Well. Or you're the guy who's like, hey, I want Someone to love me so I go and buy a dog and he's gonna love me more than any, you know. Woman is gonna do because women are crazy hard and all that right hard to get along with they look pretty but you know.

It's just a lot of work and this is easy. Like the problem is like you're what you're doing at that point like to answer your question. Is it like in terms of moral categories? Like what you're doing is you're Fundamentally rejecting the reason God made you right?

It's like you're doing something like very similar to homosexuality. Like homosexuality is like rejecting the natural function of a woman in turning to a solid way shoot. To do what a woman is supposed to do, right?

So what you're doing is you're rejecting the natural function of the woman and. So you're doing something similar to that when you turn to an animal to Meet those basic needs for companionship that you're supposed to get through human beings.

Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. So there's no fundamentally I guess just a difference of degree but not of type. Does that make do you follow what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, you mean when you when you say that you're you're just meaning. You know. It's the same it's the same exact Mistake that's being made. It's just obviously not as bad. Or right. Yeah, maybe not as bad isn't the best way to say it.

Well, no, it's not I would say it's like.

Sodomy is much worse, right? You know a couple putting a T-shirt a t-shirt on the dog saying big sis, but it's the same basic error. Okay. Like you are rejecting the natural function of an animal, right.

Rejecting a natural function of human companionship and trying to find an animal it's the same type of thing. It's just to a different degree of depravity. Does that make sense? Yeah, so if you're doing that, yes, I think yes, that's obviously like you're Rebelling against God and a pretty high-handed way.

But the problem is it's just like is it Like in order to say to make that land or stick you have to do some sort of judging of a person's heart. You know where they can just retreat and say hey, you know, yeah, and everyone does it's just like oh, yeah I know it's not a human being and whatever else and I you know, it's just You know, but it's God's creation.

We should care for them and everything else and I'm just I'm just joking, you know. It's just all in good fun and everything else. It's like yeah, okay. You know, but I just you know, you'll forgive me if I I don't believe you.

But the problem though, is that you can't substantiate it like very easily, right? Right, you're you're you're left with just okay. Well, all right if you say so, right, but If it looks like a dog and it smells like a dog and you know.

Then it might be your wife. It might be your wife. So Is that is that helpful. Yeah, yeah no. And that kind of brings up another question, which is you know, obviously it seems like you're saying this is kind of a When it when it comes to the way that we as a society Treat animals it's clearly wrong.

But then in individual cases it gets a lot harder To distinguish what is sin and what is not. So so that begs the question then, you know, what what how should we? Interact with our Christian brothers and sisters when They demonstrate this kind of behavior.

I know I know you mentioned earlier that you like to To mess mess with people and essentially, you know Suggest eating eating the pet. You know. Should we have similar responses? In general to Christians who are who seem like they're treating their pets more than just.

Animals. Yeah. Yeah, if you're not pushing back on it at all, then I would say you're probably part of the problem, okay? So like and you just don't even know it like you don't see it like you don't see it.

But what's what it is and what's actually happening? So if you're not like aware of you know. Like the the issue then I think if you're aware of the issue. Then you're gonna have to be pushing back because I mean it's just so like Overwhelmingly obvious that you're living in a society right now that absolutely loves animals more than it loves humans.

And it's trying to get from animals what it should be getting from humans. And if you don't see it, then you're part of the problem. Okay? And so I mean like I mean Matt Walsh just had a you know a video on.

Now I listen to him from time to time just to see what pagan Catholics like him say but. The thing is it's like, you know, he was pointing out the inconsistency of everyone sitting there losing their mind over you know Fauci experimenting on the You know putting the little Boxes over the dog's head where they're being eaten alive by insects and they were outraged by that and incensed by that.

But then you've been been creating a vaccine that is done through. You know aborted baby parts and no one cares and you know the comments to him at that point. We're just essentially to say like hey. You know, I love animal animals are way better than humans all the time.

And I mean at every famous like, you know animal death. So like her and be the monkey or whatever or the kid falls into the enclosure and they have to shoot the ape you know, everyone is so like they're they're basically just like you read the comments and it's just like hey, they you know, This is fundamentally immoral.

Like they're more concerned about the ape than they are about the kid, right? Or you know when one of those circus guys I don't know if it was Sigfried or Roy or whatever I can't remember who they were but they got eaten by the tiger and everyone was like, well, that's what you deserve, right?

Like we're living in a world right now. That absolutely is messed up as far as that goes and if you're not pushing back and against it all then I think that you're Probably part of the problem. Okay. Like if you're not trying to say hey, you know, aren't we getting a little crazy?

Like why is it that I mean like I I know young women who would love to get married. And they can't. But then everyone like they're you know, they will even tell you, you know, I can't you know. Like I'm just gonna go instead get married and go buy a pet, you know I guess a big it's a big problem.

And then you look at every young couple and it's just like instead of having kids. They wait like three or four years and get a pet, you know. It's like this is an issue and if you don't see it, then you're blind like so I mean, I obviously I think we should be Doing what we can to try to.

To say the obvious, you know as far as that goes but You know from the reactions I've gotten as I've attempted to do that, I don't I don't think that. Many people really realize like how big of a problem this is to be honest.

Pushing Back, Rebuking, and the Problem of the Pet Itself

Yeah, I think we should be pushing back. So what?

What does that look like exactly though? So I mean, I know you're sent you you're making kind of like the the joke about it. It are there other responses that would be helpful in terms of pushing back against this idea in your mind.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think we should be having I mean, I I make jokes about it all the time. It's kind of preventative medicine it's what I hope to be preventative medicine and actually it's just you know, making me wildly annoying to be around but.

But no, I mean, you know when I see a young couple and it's like, you know, they go out and they buy the dog. I I do ask him, you know, what why the pet, you know, why not children? All right. Why aren't you trying to get married?

Why not get married, you know, why are you going to the animal with this, you know? And and I mean, I think that that's a valid question. You know like to to think through and to be asking people as far as that goes.

And so yeah, I think there's a place for rebuking people. Hey, like what are you doing? You know, like what are you doing to your life? Mm-hmm. You're a young man who's a dicky porn and you can't stop, you know.

Self gratification and everything else and you go out and you buy a dog you think that's gonna help you, you know with your problem like Are you know? I mean, I think there's plenty of Christians who you know.