The Here I Stand Theology Podcast Interview with the guys from Open Air Theology

We've got a great show lined up for you tonight. We have the guys from Open Air Theology, Jeffrey Ross, Braden Patterson, and Haps Addison. It's going to be a great one. Stick around,.

See what's going on. Will you recant or will you not? Majesty and your lordship's desire are simple. By scripture and by plain reason, popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves write no safer.

Welcome to the Here I Stand Theology Podcast, where we are a podcast devoted to a pointed and spirited debate with the funky Latin music going on just a little bit there. We are here at the Here I Stand Theology Podcast.

We are a ministry of the local church, Reformata Baptist Church, which means this, that we are accountable for what we say and for what we do to the body of Christ there at Reformata Baptist Church. So we have, as we mentioned in the intro there, we've got a great show lined up for you tonight.

We've got the guys from Open Air Theology. We're going to bring them on here in just a minute or two, but this is going to be a recorded episode, but we do want you to be sure to do this if you would.

Don't forget to go over to our YouTube page, like, watch a video, like it, ring the bell and subscribe so that you will be notified when we put out new content. It would greatly help the algorithm there on the YouTube machine.

So if you would do that. With that being said, let's go ahead and introduce the.

Guys here tonight. Let's bring them in. Here we go. All right. So let's bring these guys in one.

By one. Here they are, the guys from Open Air Theology. Let's switch apps and Braden around there again. There we are. There we are. How are y 'all doing tonight? Awesome. Doing well. Thanks for having us, brother.

Awesome. Thank you for being here. So glad that y 'all are here. Been super looking forward to this. This is great. So I know y 'all have been busy. We want to get kind of right to it, right here from the start.

As you know, or if you don't know, just in case, if you keep up with the Here I Stand Theology podcast, you know that when we have a guest on the episode, we usually don't have multiple guests like this.

So this is like big time right here to have a whole Open Air Theology group with us here. We ask a very, very important question that kind of sets the tone, sets the mood, sets the stage for the entire podcast, and here it is.

So let's just go around the table here. So Jeff, if you and Braden had to arm wrestle, who would win?

Oh, Braden's a fireman. What are you talking about?

But Braden pointed up. So Braden, how about you and Haps?

He's a little more humble than I am.

I've been told I'm the best humble person in the world, and I just can't agree anymore with that.

Moses was the most humble person that ever lived.

That's right. That's right.

Braden is proud of his humility.

That's right. Amen to that. I take what Braden has to say.

Yeah, I'm not. It's just not there.

So Braden, what about you and Haps? If you and Haps had to arm wrestle?

Oh, man. I don't want to. You saw that heresy block he was doing in that intro.

Oh, man. Jufu 101.

Next Saturday.

I drink milk. I drink milk. I love Jesus.

So, obviously, we have determined that Braden is the youngling among us. That we are elderly. Over on this side of the screen, we are elderly. Over on that side of the screen, Jeff and Braden are still climbing into his elder years.

I could still be Braden's dad.

That's right. Braden, do they pick on you like this before you're all set to go?

I mean, never, never, never.

Well, we clown all day long.

That's awesome.

You see my mustache. It's easy to make fun of me.

That's a manly mustache.

Thank you. Thank you.

You rock that mustache. It's funny. He's always around the Mormon elders. But now he's around real elders.

I know. That's a fact.

As a matter of fact, I am an elder at my church.

Exactly.

So, that being said, let's go around the table, Jeff. Let's start with you, and I'll just let our audience know right up front. The goal and the aim of having you guys on is that we want our small audience to get to know you so that they can understand the work that you all are doing, understand the importance and the value of the work that y 'all are doing, okay?

So, Jeff, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about who you are, the man, the myth, the legend.

Well, my name is Jeff Rice. I am married to my wife, Catherine Rice. We have a litter of kids, and we live in Tallahoma, Tennessee. So, me and her both run Post-Tinderbrush Slugs Bible Rebinding, and I also pastor Covenant Reform Baptist Church here in Tallahoma, Tennessee, and I'm also a street evangelist.

I've been doing that for probably around 12 years, and it looks like someone got cut off. But that's pretty much it about me, unless you want to know something more specific.

Now, that's good. That's good to start us out. Well, the specifics will come out as we talk.

All right.

Brayden, how about you?

Yeah, Brayden Patterson. I am so fortunate and blessed to be saved by God's grace, and I'll also be blessed with a wonderful wife that I've been married to now for almost coming on five years next month.

We have two children, one Shepard, one Owen, and then I'm so privileged to pastor just a small church over in Hagerman, Idaho. Just going to preach Christ crucified every Sunday, and then I'm ex-LDS, which praise God for the ex part of that.

Hallelujah.

That's right.

Amen.

Praise the Lord, guys. Praise the Lord. I'm not sure what happened with Haps there, but we'll swing back around to him. So, one of the important things that I'd like for you all to share tonight, if you would, if you don't mind, share with us your testimony of salvation.

So, we ended with Brayden. We'll start with Brayden, then we'll come back to Jeff, and then get Haps when he comes back.

You know, that's a really great question. So, coming from my background, that I looked at my own filthy rags that I know now that are filthy rags, and I look to my works enduring to the end, my obedience, my righteousness to save me.

It's now solely looking at Jesus Christ, Him who knew no sin becoming sin on my behalf, so that I might be made the righteous of God in Him. And so, the assurance of my salvation is nothing that I have done, but simply to the cross of Christ that I'm clinging to.

And so, that's where my assurance is that God in flesh paid the price for me.

Amen. Amen.

Jeff, how about you?

Yeah, man. So, I'm a product of 9 -11. I'm an ex-gangbanger. He's ex-Mormon. I'm an ex-gangbanger. I was sitting out in an old trailer park somewhere in Nashville, Tennessee, playing hacky sack and drinking a beer, smoking a joint.

And all of a sudden, people start running out of the trailers, talking about the world is ending, that this is in the Bible.

Oh, wow.

You know, I was like, what are y 'all talking about? And the planes are going into buildings. And that day, I picked up a Bible for the first time, started reading it. And over the next couple of years, I started going to church and listened to a street preacher by the name of Ray Comfort.

I had already been attending church. As a matter of fact, I'm teaching Sunday school, part of a youth group, leading a youth group. And then I heard the gospel very, very clearly from him. Saw myself naked and exposed, truly called upon the name of the Lord.

But ever since 9 -11, I've been reading the Bible faithfully every day and growing in the knowledge of the Lord. He saved me. Him in eternity reached into time and removed this stick from the fire. And he is continually saving me through the same gospel message.

So as a Reformed believer, not only do I believe that in justification by faith, that this is something that God does to me, but I also believe in sanctification through the same gospel that God saves me.

He faiths me and he repents me through the message of what Jesus Christ did on the cross, his life, death, burial and resurrection.

Amen.

Amen.

Thank you all for sharing that. So very, very important. It's not necessarily having a day in a specific time nailed down, but it's knowing that you've been born again, that you've been made a new creature, that the old things, as the scripture states, are passing away and all things are become new.

I heard it said from Adrian Rogers. He says, if you and I are both going to California and you drive and I fly, and when you're driving, you know the exact moment that you come into California. And though I am flying, I do not know the exact moment I get into California.

But the point is, is we're both in California.

Amen. Amen.

So talk to us a little bit, if you would, guys, about open air theology. How did y 'all come together? How did y 'all meet?

Well, for the most part, it's just Facebook. I mean, you know, I met Haps through Facebook. You know, we kind of went back and forth a little bit, talking here and there through Messenger. And, you know, I listened to a few of his videos.

He listened to some of the stuff I was doing. He came and visited this area and he hung out with me and he had me on his podcast. And then ever since then, we were dead set that we were going to have some kind of a podcast together.

And in the process of this, Braden reached out to me and he sent me a video of him witnessing to Mormons. And I listened to it. I was like, I got to have this guy on my team.

Praise the Lord.

And so I reached out to him and was very persistent that, you know, he was one of my new best friends. And we just hit it off, man. So I don't know if you remember the story that way or not.

So how do you remember it, Braden?

No, I think you hit it spot on right there. I was reaching out to you because I had seen, I mean, just as every reform guy does. We have our certain group of people that we follow. And so I remember hearing James White years ago talk about Post-Tenebrous Lux.

And so just watching more and more, I was like, oh yeah, this Jeff guy is definitely somebody I want to hang out with and talk with more and more. And so I eventually just sent him that. I like sharing the moments I could express the gospel to different people.

And so I was like, I got to send this to Jeff. And he actually watched it, which was a blessing. And then so we just kind of started interacting from that. And so it was.

Very nice. Very nice.

So as far as.

Are you guys by chance getting really bad service on your end?

For me, I am.

Yeah, not, no, just on, just from your side.

I'm super far behind on your guys' side. Okay. Copy that.

All right. Um, so as far as, as theology goes, how, um. How do you all as a, as a, we'll call you a team as open air theology group.

It's down to two.

That's down to the two of us, Jeff.

How do you all.

Maybe he's just backing out and coming in.

Yeah, he is. He is. Here comes Braden back. Let's click him in here.

There you are.

How is the sound now?

There we go. I guess a potato. Maybe that's wifi. I'm sorry, guys.

What, what kind of wifi?

Oh, a potato one. I got a rest of the Idaho potato downstairs. Don't you guys, what do you guys use? No, I might, I might be breaking in and out.

I apologize guys.

It's it's, it's pretty laggy on my side of things.

All right. No problem.

Sounds a lot better now.

Does it good?

Yeah. Yeah.

Just don't make any sudden actions. Your camera won't have to make adjustments there. All right. So, so theology, as far as theology goes, guys, obviously as you all stated, you met, you kind of came together on Facebook, which a lot of us have, you know I know that's how I came to know about post-Tenebrous Lux.

And then, and then, you know, over the time, just kind of watching Jeff's Jeff's stuff on.

There.

And then we got to finally meet up at, at G3, which was very cool.

Very nice.

And, but as far as the theology goes, how obviously you recognized each other's theology, but how did you all decide that this is what we're going to land on? I know y 'all started with a, a couple of different names, right?

Right off the bat, Jeff.

Yeah.

So the, at first we was shooting for the black sheep gang and reason being that the, the reformed Baptist is the black sheep of the reformation. And, and we still plan to do something with that maybe in the future as if the page grows and we might want to have like some extra content and, and, and we might have like an extra page where this extra content only will be posted.

And those, you know, like for, for those who decided to support what we're doing in the reformation. And so, and so in order to be a part of this, you will be included in the black sheep gang. So it's just something for the future.

And so I thought that I would put that on the side and kind of develop that later. And then, and then like, in the heat of the moment, we had grace covenant. So the covenant of grace is, is, is one of my favorite topics to speak about, especially as a reformed Baptist, a 1689 Federalist.

So I would view the covenant of grace different from the Presbyterian brothers.

And that's actually what I was going to, I was going to ask that. I'm glad you already addressed that. So I was going to say 1689 or Westminster. You could be Westminster, but you should be 1689.

Yeah.

And so, and so grace covenant was just like 99 of the words.

Yeah.

So grace covenant, I was just twisting the words around because great covenant of grace podcast didn't sound good. So grace covenant, and then I was just twiddling with it and thought, man, we just need something that's more catchy.

And it was, it was hard to say, like, I'll be trying to introduce it and I just get tongue tied. And so, and then every one of us do open air preaching.

Yes.

And so I was thinking about the open air preaching and we're all real theology nerds. And so I just kind of put the two together, open air theology and they concurred. And here we are.

Very nice. So Brayden, so as, as far as open air preaching, how long have you been open air preaching?

You know, that's a really good question. So after, after I left being LDS and immediately after I was saved, I almost immediately wanted to start doing open air stuff. And so I had the privilege of being discipled by Matt Slick from karm .org and, and, and so hanging out with him, being around his, his peeps and being a peep of his.

And it just kind of came with it. So I would almost say almost day one coming out of the gate. So I've been saved now for over seven years. And so over a little over seven years is how long I've been doing open air witnessing.

Praise the Lord.

What do you find, what did you find at the beginning was probably one of the biggest hurdles or obstacles that you faced?

You know, that's a really good question. I, I gotta give credit to Matt. He really, he really helped. He really encouraged me in different ways. So, so he actually was like, Brayden, if you want to get good at debating and talking to people in person about this kind of stuff, you need to go online to different forums.

And he gave me a list of forums that he suggests. And he just said, just go and argue with people. Just go and, and, and talk theology, give the gospel and you're going to fail. You're not going to know how to answer questions, but you're going to get better after every single conversation.

And so even taking that to the street and just knowing, look, I have a Lord and master who's worthy to be talked about. I am going to go out and find that I don't have answers to all the questions, but I'll get better at it.

And so seven years later now, man, it's, it's a blessing to have people come up and talk and engage in those ways and know how to direct them because I have failed in the past. And, and so those are definitely some of the hurdles.

You know, I, I, I think I can speak for almost every evangelist that they're the, the biggest hurdle is just getting your mouth open is just starting the conversation. It's just introducing yourself. And I mean, it's as simple as saying who is Jesus Christ to somebody that's walking by and then you're off.

Right.

But it's just that intimidation of, of, of starting. And once you start, you just can't stop talking about Jesus Christ.

I found.

So getting started was the biggest obstacle there. So how about you, Jeff?

Yeah, well, I would say still starting as the biggest obstacle, like, you know, I always lead off with that. Hey, my name is Jeff. I'm the pastor of covenant reform Baptist church. I'm out here today just to let you know that I love you.

I do not come out here because I hate you. I come out here because I love you. By getting those words out, it's the hardest. But so again, because I am a product of 9 -11 and a product of Ray Comfort street ministry.

Of course, I do things a little different. I'm just, I do what he does, but in a reformed way, like I've, I've kind of reformed that method of, of, of preaching and witnessing. Um, I have a high appreciation.

Well, I just, I just go about it a little different. So I actually teach a text. So I find a text and I just preach the text instead of just going out there trying to debate someone. And I have a different aspect of when it comes to witnessing.

Like, I just go about it a little different now. I definitely use the same rules that he used when it comes to the, the, the three uses.

Of the law.

So the first use of the law being, uh, you use the law to bring someone from, to the, from the, not from the knowledge of, I mean, you want to take them, you want to use the law to show them that they're in Adam, which I don't think he would use those words.

And you want to bring them from Adam to Christ. You see what I'm saying? So it's the, so Ray Comfort did not invent, uh, you know, have you ever told a lie? You ever stole something? You ever like this?

This is something that the reformed Christians and the Lutherans did. And it's the three uses of the law. Of course, the Lutherans in the reform would reverse the, the numbering. So we would say that the first use is you'd bring someone from Adam to Christ.

And they would say that that's the second use. And what we would call the second use is the law. It's kind of like the government uses the law as a curb. They would say that that's the first use.

Right.

And so because I am a product of street ministry, and I know that it works because I was saved through it, uh, right out the gate. Like, as soon as I saw this, I started learning about it, but because there was no one that was passionate about it, I was afraid to attempt to do it by myself.

But then the Lord put me in by His providence with someone by the name of Jamie Terry, a good friend of mine. And, uh, and he wanted to do it. I wanted to do it. And so we just got out there and I started doing it.

And this was probably, this was, uh, 2000, 2011. But the first time I ever preached was in 2010, downtown Nashville on the streets. And, uh, it was terrifying being by myself really. Um, so me and him just started doing it.

We started going door to door. We started hanging out at walk at parks where, you know, people would have that walking trail and we'd stand at that trail, pass out tracks and witness one-on-one. And finally, we just started, you know, building ourself up to stand on a box and preach.

Yeah. Yeah.

You, you mentioned the uses of the law. I think, um, Ligonier has a great, um, article on their website. Um, basically, you know, Cal, how Calvin crystallized the youth, the three uses of the.

Law.

The first being a mirror reflecting to us both the righteousness of God in our own sinfulness. The second is the civil use because you had mentioned that Jeff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So a good way to remember it, it's mirror, curb and guide.

Right.

That's exactly right. He guides the regenerate into the good works that God's plan.

So the third use of the law is for Christians. First use is that the first year. You should use it for the loss, but you also need to.

Use it.

Preach the gospel to yourself as well.

Amen.

The second use is more on the lines of our government. They can use the law to keep free people from being as evil as they could be. And the third use is for Christians. We read the Bible in light of what Christ has done.

That's right.

And govern ourself by that.

Yeah.

That's right. That's right. So along and let's go back a circle around back around to something that you said earlier that really caught my attention when you when you were sharing your testimony. The church, right?

The church is precious to the Lord. That's what the scriptures teach us.

Right.

He gave his life for the church. And I think what we see a lot of times, Jeff, as you had mentioned, you said you were you were leading a youth group.

Yeah, I was one of the leaders. I was one of the leaders of a youth group. I was teaching Sunday school.

Right.

Yeah.

And but but that was before you were born again, right before you were regenerated, made made a new creature.

I do believe so.

Yeah.

Yeah, I do believe so.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. I'm just trying to get my head around it because where I'm going with this, because I think that one of the big issues that we see in the church today is unregenerate leadership.

Yeah, absolutely.

The desire. You all can just give me your opinion on this here in just a second. Let me figure out how to formulate this best.

If this would help, I walked up like when I gave an altar call, I walked up to get saved. And all they asked me was, where are you coming from? And I told them what church I went to previously when I was like 12.

And they turned to the congregation. I said, I do. We welcome him to the membership. And I was like, I didn't know what was going on.

Right.

And so and but we see it trickles down, you know, it kind of trickles down. And as we get older and in Brayden, man, I want to I want to say something real quick to you. I am, dude, I am blown away and impressed by the guy you had on here a while back that you were debating with.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

At your demeanor, at your calm, at your wisdom, at just the way that you answered those questions, dude, I just want to commend you. I mean, Scripture says that we shouldn't have praise of ourselves, but we all have praise.

Of another.

And I want to publicly praise you for that, for your standing in the Lord and your ability to speak with clarity there. But again, going back to the church, if if as the church that we don't have theological, which are a .k .a. plain talk, biblical standards, right, for leadership from the ground up in the church, then we see generation after generation literally being fed a false narrative, a false gospel, a false idea of what a Christian is, of what a Christian is to do.

Right.

And that it's just it perpetuates itself. It goes over and over and over and over and over. So how do you all feel? No, that's not the right question. Good grief. Alistair Begg would bust me in the mouth for that.

How do y 'all feel today?

Right.

What are your what's your all's thoughts on the importance of rigid biblical standards for church leadership? Let's start with you, Brayden, this time.

I think it's absolutely so important. And I think we see the byproduct of it in almost every United States pulpit today is that we have clowns that are preaching. And because of that, then we have unregenerate people that are or maybe not even unregenerate people, people that just don't know that are in these positions.

And how can somebody be a leader if they can't even speak educatedly on the Word of God? Or these are things that are so important, so, so important to make sure that a person is qualified for the call and that they are continually qualified, that they're continually seeking after the glory of God.

Otherwise, like I said, you're going to have people that just like you said, how do you feel about this? You're going to have people that are meeting people's feelings in these areas. They're going to be people that are feeding the feel good emotion stuff rather than actually feeding them spiritually using God's Word as that standard for it.

Amen.

So, let's hit this point now, too, because I was triggered. If I had a shaking effect, I would do the shaking effect now. That word, Jeff, what would you say about this, that in our, and we'll call it reform circles, right?

There is a tendency, and again, I would guess, would I be incorrect, Braden, if I said in the LDS that it was a pretty, was it pretty strict and rigid and quiet and calm in the.

Service?

And I'm talking about the church service.

Maybe not calm, but very, very rigid. There was no, I mean, they would use heart emotions to sway people, but there was no power of the cross in there.

It was very boring.

It was very boring. That's a good way of saying it.

And so, Jeff's coming from a, you know, I understand and know exactly where Jeff and I are coming from the same spots. We've got the same people, the same motions that people go through. You know, in a country church, if the preacher ain't shouting or somebody didn't rejoice, then we didn't have a good service.

The Spirit wasn't there. It was dead. The flip side of that is in reform circles, I think that even still to this day, that there is a tendency for reformed folk to veer completely away from emotion and veer, you know, kind of into the stoic deadness.

Yeah, the frozen chosen.

Yeah, frozen chosen. And so, Jeff, how do you think we as reformed folks and reformed pastors can rightly shepherd and teach and lead our congregations, the congregations that the Lord has made us under shepherds over?

How can we lead them and guide them into a balance in biblical worship?

I think first, the minister, the true worship leader has to recognize the two sides of the.

Ditches.

We have to recognize that, and we have to drive the cart and not wreck it.

That's right.

You see what I'm saying?

Keep it between the lines.

Yeah, we have to keep it between the lines. I mean, Martin Lloyd-Jones, you know, like you're part of our, you know, the group that we have on Facebook, Preaching and Preachers.

Yes.

And one of the things that's said was that preaching is theology on fire.

That's right.

Right.

And so we want to be educated when it comes to theology, but we do not want to be passionless. Am I saying that right?

Without passion.

Without passion. We don't want to be without passion.

All right.

And that's just something that it's beyond me. Like, I would rather be uneducated with passion and learn and then be educated. Versus to be educated and without passion, because you cannot be taught passion.

That's right.

All right.

You know, I do not want to be a talking head in the pulpit.

That's right.

And in order for my congregation to be passionate, they need to see their pastor driving the cart without wrecking it off with the two ditches.

Amen, Jeff.

They don't need to see me running around the room. All right. But they do need to see me passionate about God.

All right.

They don't need to see me so calm that I'm afraid to say hallelujah.

Amen.

You know what I'm saying? When I when I when I feel it.

Praise the Lord!

Hallelujah, I'm back.

And so we've heard the saying, as goes the king. So as goes the king, so does the kingdom, you know, as goes the pulpit. So goes the ministry. But again, as goes the pastor, so does the congregation, right?

The sheep are going to reflect their shepherd. If their shepherd's abusing them, they're going to be abused sheep. They're going to be flinchy. They're not going to know how to act. But I think, you know, when they see that the shepherd is someone who is passionate about Christ, but also serious when it comes to theology, it's going to be infectious.