January 20, 2021 Show with Doug Wilson on “The Gods of Civil Unrest & Jesus Mobs”

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Doug Wilson and the Gods of Civil Unrest

And we have a guest returning to the program today. I'm thrilled to have him back. He will be familiar to many of our listeners, if not most. His name is Doug Wilson, a conservative, reformed, and evangelical theologian.

He is pastor at Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho, a faculty member at New St. Andrews College, an author and speaker, founder of Canon Press, host of the Applied Theology Podcast, or as he calls it, a plodcast, and blogger at Blog and Mayblog.

And today we are going to address the gods of civil unrest and Jesus mobs, which is a blog article, a very lengthy blog article that Doug recently wrote in reaction to the storming of the Capitol recently.

And I am conducting this interview by the urging, the enthusiastic and excited urging of my dear friend, who I've interviewed many times in this program, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, the pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

And although Dr. Moorcraft and Doug have not seen eye to eye on certain theological issues, Dr. Moorcraft was utterly blown away by this article, even to the point, as his wife Becky put it, to the point of tears.

And he enthusiastically encouraged me to read it and to book Doug to discuss this subject today. And also, that was later confirmed, the importance of this article was later confirmed watching the dividing line right after that, and hearing my guest and my mutual friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, also enthusiastically plug the article.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Doug Wilson.

Doug Wilson. Great to be with you.

Peter Robinson. And if you could, before we get into our discussion, tell our listeners about Christchurch in Moscow, Idaho.

Doug Wilson So, Moscow, Idaho. Peter Robinson How would you describe the church theologically? Doug Wilson Well, obviously, you are thinking or being.

Prepared for the initial knee-jerk reaction that many have, because they immediately will think of the PCUSA, because many people are typically unfamiliar with other Presbyterian denominations that are very faithful to the scriptures, like the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and the Reformed Presbyterian Church in the United States, and in varying degrees, the Presbyterian Church in America.

But, and there are others as well, of course, but...

Peter Robinson My confessional...

Doug Wilson. You are a part of a fellowship of churches, are you not? Is it not the CREC?

Peter Robinson CREC, Communion... Doug Wilson Okay, great. Well, if anybody.

Wants more information on the Christchurch in Moscow, Idaho, you can look that up at their website, which is Christkirk, which I believe is the Scottish word for church, Christkirk .com, Christkirk .com.

And this article that you wrote, The Gods of Civil Unrest and Jesus Mobs, was obviously, as I already stated, in response to the recent storming of the Capitol Building. Before you even get into that specific action that took place, can you tell us what your first reaction was when you just saw the crowds, the massive, massive crowds there before anything.

Illegal was taking place? Peter Robinson. Simple faith in God and Christ. How can we make our voice? Doug Wilson. My program was actually.

Live streaming at one point on a different network. And sometimes when I would have to air a rerun, there would be a goof up. And instead of running an old episode of my show, I'd be listening, I'd be tuning in just to make sure that they had the right episode on.

And here's Alex Jones in my slot. I'm like, what? I had to call them on several occasions. What are you doing? And they thought I was out of my mind for being upset about that. But so let's define some terms here.

Who are the gods of civil unrest?

Peter Robinson. And how about defining for us Jesus mobs? Obviously, not everyone amongst those crowds.

Of thousands at the Capitol Building didn't identify themselves publicly as Christians or as Jesus groupies or anything. I mean, there may have been many that did, but it wasn't the universal thing amongst the crowd.

So what do you mean by Jesus mobs?

Doug Wilson. The theological liberals, you might say was you had the rent a mob. There's another group, the Sermon on the Mount over against the Pharisees. You can see this in the way that the Jewish leaders had to go about arresting them at night.

It says when they go to arrest the apostles, they handle them very gingerly, very high opinion, right? You know, in Washington, although I believe that there were many genuine in that demonstration. I know some.

I think a lot them are people who would think that Jesus is good, and the Bible is good, and God is good, and traditional values are good. And that's sort of the full extent of their theology, secular progress in the New Testament.

Speed on what Jesus that we make the hard left rioting mobs. It's you can't just take one size, one size fits all.

Doug Wilson.

This is an area, this whole area of public demonstration, being a part of protests, and large gatherings or gatherings of any size, publicly, where Christians are involving themselves, whether it be pro-life demonstrations, or demonstrations, or gatherings for any other reason, that the church is sharply divided, you have those that even would be theologically closely aligned with you and I, on one end of the spectrum, who would believe that the church, even though individuals have freedoms and liberties to do things, as as individuals, that the church should not participate in these kinds of things as an official function of the church.

And there are those others on the other side, totally on the other side, 180 degrees, on the other side of the spectrum, who would even dare to say that those who believe that, that the church should not be involved in the political arena or in public demonstrations, they would even say that they would be in sin for being complacent, or indifferent, or not involved in the culture.

And in fact, both sides might call each other's guilty of sin. In this, this whole question, where do you land? And I know, there are nuanced and varying degrees of difference in the middle of those two extreme sides, but where are you on this?

Okay, so I guess Jesus rose from the dead. And that is, into the public square, what the Great Commission requires in heaven and on earth, has been given to me. So all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

And then he says, therefore, go disciple the nations, rise them and teach them to obey Jesus. And that means no homosexual marriage. That means no more killing the babies. That means we have to repent, belong to the public square.

Now when we go into the public square, we want to make sure that we don't go there and tell lies. And we call the event citizen mind being at a big march, together with Muslims and atheists. Let's call it Christian include Mormons and not Orthodox.

I say no, I'm more than willing to occupy go into the public square of human life. But I don't want to connect it to I want to make sure that we keep our testimony. I don't have any problem being there.

And be sure.

Yeah, what complicates matters is sometimes when these gatherings occur. There are people, as you mentioned in the first category, where it might be just something like a citizens for life. Yeah, demonstration, where you might have Roman Catholics in mass, no pun intended there, where you have like perhaps even dozens or hundreds of people reciting the rosary.

And here you are standing or marching or walking right near them or next to them. And giving a false impression to outlookers witnesses that you approve of this kind of devotion. I remember our mutual friend, Dr. James R. White.

At one point years ago, I believe it was back in the 80s, maybe the 90s. He was a part, an active part of a pro life organization, and he had to step down voluntarily from his involvement because he was reprimanded for evangelizing Roman Catholics during the event.

Who were doing things and saying things in public that he adamantly opposed. So if you could just say a few words about that caveat.

Yeah, so a hundred people walk by and 95 of them are Roman Catholics saying rosary, and then you've got one Methodist, two Baptists, and two Presbyterians. I'm fond of saying that if there are 12 clowns in a circus ring, you can jump down there and start reciting Shakespeare.

But to the audience, you're just the 13th clown. Right. I'm not sure at the moment this is what that is. Are you there, brother? Hello? Yeah, for some reason you cut out. And, you know, all the people marching down this avenue are Bible-believing evangelicals, and the rosary people are a half mile away.

You know, then people are not going to make the wrong, they're not going to jump to the wrong conclusion. I think I'm responsible to make sure that my testimony to the gospel is in R. I have been quite concerned over the years when I have seen and heard.

The responses of fellow believers, some of whom are even Reformed. This would typically not be elders or pastors, but your average Joe and Jane in the pews, who have been so enamored, for instance, with Glenn Beck, that they swear that he is a regenerate born-again believer in spite of his commitment to Mormonism.

And Glenn Beck, I don't know if you remember, he had been a, he had spearheaded a major event gathering in Washington D .C. years ago, and the thing that got me very upset and concerned about this event was that Glenn Beck was very clear, this is not a political gathering, it is a spiritual one.

And if he had kept it as a political gathering by identity, I would not have been necessarily upset by it, the fact that he was calling it a spiritual event, and then to the clueless ears of the thousands of Christians, evangelicals, that were in the audience, he was teaching in very subtle ways, but those that know Mormon doctrine, their ears perked up because they recognized it, he was teaching Mormonism.

He was teaching things that were unique about Mormonism, about the fact that Jesus walked the earth in the United States, or should I say, on the continent of North America, and so on. So we have to be careful about how and when and where we align ourselves with those that share our moral convictions and social convictions and political convictions, but who really oppose the Christ of the scriptures.

And this is 20 ,000 National Guardsmen, a lockdown inauguration, putting the lid on, and then turning the, when that happens, basically, you've got to know Roman Catholics are going to react, it comes at your fingertips, are going to be revealed under stress, much more markedly.

And we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Doug Wilson, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

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Things in his design. Thank you. Welcome back. If you just tuned us in our guest today for the entire program is Doug Wilson, pastor of Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho, and a very well-known writer and speaker.

We are discussing a blog article of his, The Gods of Civil Unrest and Jesus Mobs. This was written in response to the recent storming of the Capitol building. And if you have questions of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And we do have a listener who has written a question for you, Doug. His name is Prasanth from New York City. In fact, he is a relative. I think he's the nephew of the man whose voice you just heard in the ad for Dr. Banu Gadi, the pharmacist that has become a very important advertiser on this program.

And Prasanth says, I would like to ask what words you would have for those ministers who continue to only hold online services rather than in person and or strictly mandate masking at all times during the services and enforce government capacity limits.

Can you please address the big picture dangers of ceding the authority of the state?

Yes, so here, this is the thing that we're trying to get our on any given work. If you're in the middle of a worship service, and the fire chief comes in and tells you that the roof of the church is on fire, I don't think you need to convene a meeting if the session is coming.

All of these things, civil magistrate with this pandemic been going on for coming up on a year. It's not bogus in the sense that there's no such thing as COVID or that there's no such thing as wildly disproportion to comparable issues.

And I think that plays that's being run on them are are being negligent in the extreme. If you're in California, let's say, and you're and you're being told that abortion clinics are issues are not essential Christian leaders.

It has really been mind boggling to me to see people who are so theologically aligned, have such sharp divisions over this, I have had some very, very nasty things said to me from fellow reformed brethren, because of my disdain for the mask mandates.

And they just, they are just totally convinced that the science proves that this is going to be a way to demonstrate love for your neighbor, because you are going to lessen the spread or prevent the of the coronavirus.

And I just had some visit physicians on the program yesterday who, who said that that is just as ridiculous as trying to stop mosquitoes, getting into your house with a chain link fence. And so it's just, it's just been amazing to me to see the differences of.

Opinion on this. By the way, I would want sure. Yeah. It has been such a tragic and sad thing.

I even know personally, some folks that had left the fellowship of the church years ago, and we're just starting to return to church after years of forsaking the assembling of the brethren. And they were being counseled and so on.

And this whole coronavirus mandate that initially occurred, kind of got them out of the practice of going to church, going to worship. And to my knowledge, they haven't returned since then. Now, obviously, they are not guiltless in their reluctance to quickly return when the congregation returned to public worship.

But at the same time, there is some blame to be had in this, these false mandates and overreaches and so on. By the way, Prasanth, and I mistakenly said you were from New York City, because I was thinking of your uncle's pharmacy, which he has one in New York City, and at least one in New York City and one in Long Island.

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So thank you, Prasanth, for your very first question on I Interrupt and Sign Radio. I hope to hear from you again and often. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who asks,. You seem to be discouraged and opposed to the gatherings in Washington, D .C., recently, even before the criminal activity by some began, which there is some clear evidence that at least some of those people were not even conservatives but were a part of the Antiva movement.

I was wondering, would you be opposed to Christians being a part of this very large protest, if it did not have any criminal activity, just because of the fact that these were honest Bible-believing Christians who were opposed to the fact that, in their opinion, from evidence, the election was stolen from President Trump?

There wasn't enough, importantly, got in there, and there was a Black Lives Matter guy that was inside in the crowd, and they stole an election. But my question is, why was it so in there and get control?

Who would think that that sort of thing? I think we need more operating in 19...

And we have to go to a midway break right now, and please be patient with us, because the midway break on our show is always the break that is longer than the other breaks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because they, to obey FCC regulations, they have to localize this show and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida.

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