The Great Schism, The Rise of Islam & The Beginning of the Crusades

2 Timothy 3 and the Need to Continue in Scripture

Let's turn to 2nd Timothy chapter 3. We'll look at a few verses in 2nd Timothy 3, but this is Lesson number 8 in the book for runners of the faith and this lesson is titled schisms scholars and soldiers.

So we're going to be looking at Certain men that we're getting into the Middle Ages here and then the Crusades so a lot to get to but first Let's read this passage from 2nd Timothy 3 this will be verses 13 through 15 the Apostle Paul to Timothy he says but evil men and Impostors will grow worse and worse deceiving and being deceived but you must continue in the things which you have learned and Been assured of knowing from whom you have learned them and that from childhood you have known the holy scriptures.

Which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith, which is in Christ Jesus. So the men that we're going to be looking at some of them Anselm another man Bernard and then there is the First crusade second crusade third and fourth.

So the first crusade was in 1095 the final or fourth crusade was in 1204. I'm not sure if we'll get to the Crusades or not but Most of this is in my book. It starts out with this sentence in yours. So Just follow along and then bear with me as I have some reading to do to begin the class so number one.

The Fall of the Western Empire and the Rise of Papal Power

Setting the stage the early Middle Ages in the 5th century. So remember the 5th century is the 400s a lot of people kind of get that mixed up. But in the 400s things changed Dramatically for the western half of the Roman Empire, which was overrun by Germanic tribal groups like the Vandals the Goths the Huns and the Saxons.

By 476 the Western Roman Empire had fallen. So remember the Roman Empire was divided into two. So the West now has fallen but the eastern part of the Empire continued on much longer over the subsequent centuries those tribal groups eventually formed the nations of Europe but this process of social transformation took a long time.

As A result there was less theological development and scholarship in the West during the Middle Ages from the 6th through the 10th centuries. Theological scholarship was largely preserved in monasteries in the 6th century.

So the 6th century is what? 500 it's good the in the 6th century the Eastern Roman Empire also called the Byzantine Empire Attempted to regain the territories in the West that had been lost. For example, the military exploits of the Emperor Justinian the Great were initially successful, so that's 483 to 565 AD in the 7th century.

That's the 600s an unexpected religious movement arose in Arabia. And we know this religion as what? Islam right? So this movement arose in Arabia under the leadership of Muhammad who lived from 570 to 632.

Islamic armies quickly conquered lands in North Africa and the Middle East which were under Byzantine control. Jerusalem fell in the year 637. Within a hundred years after Muhammad's death large Portions of the former Roman Empire were under Muslim control.

So you see that Jerusalem was under you know, we say, you know Christian control. Quote unquote up until this point. Despite significant losses to Muslim areas the Byzantine Empire would survive until Constantinople was finally defeated by the Turks in the 15th century.

During the early Middle Ages the Western Church Sent missionaries to the Germanic tribal groups and many of them were converted to Christianity. For example in the 600s a missionary named Augustine of Canterbury was sent to Britain to evangelize the Angles and the and the Saxons.

For some years before this a powerful tribe known as the Franks Had converted to Christianity. These tribal groups gave their allegiance to the Bishop of Rome. The city of Rome was the most important Christian center in the West other important centers were Constantinople Antioch Alexandria and Jerusalem and they were located in the east.

Because no other city in the West Rivaled the religious authority of Rome the prestige and power of the papacy was continually Elevated and of course the the Pope is also called what? What's his connection to Rome?

He is the Well, he's he's the bishop of of the church in Rome. And of course Rome's the center so that's just kind of the way it worked out that over time as the as the Emperor, you know his power started to decline.

The Pope's power Started to to rise or the Bishop of Rome's power started to rise and that's when he became. You know the Pope as we know him today where he just claims authority over. And actually we know he claims authority over the Catholic Church.

What is not talked about today? He actually claims authority over all the earth like he claims to be the king of kings. He claims to be to have authority over every nation. Now the current Pope doesn't talk like that because that's.

That's not a good strategy at the moment because they don't really have that power but back in the day the Pope's. Yeah, they're kingmakers. They they decided who is going to be king. So that title king of kings that we know belongs to Christ the Pope usurped for himself and technically in Roman theology the Pope claims to be basically the king of King of the world in effect.

But anyways, this is how it happened over time. In the late 17 or excuse me in the late 700s a document known as the donation of Constantine. Surface now, does anyone remember that we talked about this a couple months ago the donation of Constantine?

Anyone remember this, okay. This is what the Pope claimed. Well, let me just read it. This document was later proven to be a forgery. But it claimed that prior to the to his death in 337 the Emperor Constantine Bequeathed not a term we use much he bequeathed the city of Rome to the Bishop of Rome.

In other words he passed a long authority because Constantine moved east to his new capital which he named after himself Constantinople and According to this document he left Rome in charge. He left the Pope or the Bishop of Rome in charge of the city of Rome.

So that's one of the reasons why the Pope claims to have that power. Well, it was given to us by Constantine. Well again, but that document later was shown to be false. Any questions so far? We're just talking about church history how things developed how things evolved from the 8th to the 13th century.

Popes used the donation of Constantine to assert both their religious and Political authority over Rome and the surrounding areas. Militarily the Popes maintained good relationships with tribal groups like the Franks.

This led to the creation of the Holy Roman Empire when Charlemagne king of the Franks was crowned Emperor by the Romans. By soon he was crowned Emperor of the Romans by Pope Leo the third on Christmas Day in the year 800.

The 9th and 10th centuries were a period of significant corruption for the Popes of Rome. The papacy was fought over by rival groups in Rome who recognized it as a position of great political power, okay, so The discussion question for this section.

It says look at that key passage. So 2nd Timothy 3 13 through 15. Let's just read it one more time with all those things in mind Paul says. But evil men and imposters will grow what? Worse and worse or bad to worse deceiving and being deceived.

But you you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of knowing from whom you have learned them and that from Childhood you have known what? The Holy Scriptures which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith, which is in Christ Jesus.

So if you just knew the scriptures and followed the scriptures you should have known that this is not. This is not right. Of course back then not everyone had a Bible, right? Most people didn't know what the Bible taught and as the Catholic Church obtained more power.

They wanted to make sure that the average person didn't didn't see the Bible didn't read the Bible didn't know what was in there. So here's the discussion question. Look at that passage. Okay, we did that church history provides a record of corrupt leaders going from bad to worse.

What antidote did Paul give Timothy to avoid that kind of corruption and The hint is to read verses 16 and 17. And let's read that All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for Doctrine for reproof for correction and for instruction and righteousness that the man of God may be complete Thoroughly equipped for every good work.

So you put that in your own words. How is that an antidote? For all of this corruption, how would that work Stacey?

I guess I would say just very simply stay in the scripture stay in the word that gives you your Roadmap, if you will. Yeah.

We agree with that the scripture would be like a roadmap if you follow the Bible. You wouldn't have all of these abuses. You certainly wouldn't have one man. Usurping the authority that only Christ has.

Yes, Aaron.

Right. Nobody's gonna be able to tell you but the Bible says this because you already know your scriptures, right? You can look at them and say no actually it doesn't say that right? Yeah.

Yeah, she brought up something that I mentioned on Friday where a woman was on the radio. She was making an argument that churches should do this because and she actually made an appeal to scripture, but what she said like totally wasn't in the Bible at all.

But if people yeah if people know the Word of God that's gonna prevent. Prevent you from going astray. Hopefully. Right. Like we have an environment here at Morris Corner Church where if somebody. Whether it's the pastor a deacon someone in the church.

Let's say somebody wanted to bring the church in an unbiblical direction. Like it's just ingrained in everybody. Wait a minute. What does the Bible say. That's not right because the Bible says this like it's just second nature to us or first nature.

But when that's not the environment of a church or you know, or an empire or whatever. Yeah, it's like anything anything goes.

If you were a Baby with the scriptures or you know, just living on the milk or what you hear. Unfortunately, you're not going to be able to distinguish and that's part of what these people with strength, right?

Yeah, a lot of people they know. Right just enough to be dangerous as people say they know a little bit about the Bible. But you need to continue to study it. Yeah a new convert who's been reading the Bible for two months.

It's easy to kind of. You know pull the wool over their eyes. I mean, maybe not but. That's why we need to be learned in the scriptures and and continue in that. Yes. Right. Yeah.

And he was able to claim something from scripture. He was doing it to make a point but he was. You know, he was the pastor's son. So great I mean there. This is why if the Bible says that teachers are held to a higher standard People will look at somebody with that authority of title and they will they must know more than I do.

I'm just I'm just a layman, right? And so it's so important to be For yourself and find it for yourself. And when pastor speaks or anybody speaks to go look it up in the Bible for yourself.

Right. Yes. Yeah, yeah, and it's not just the new convert right listen. I could. I can be deceived. Hey, well, I you know, I know enough to I this couldn't happen to me. It could happen to anybody and this is one of the reasons why It it's important who you listen to.

Let's say there's some guy on on TV or whatever and you know that you really shouldn't listen to him. Like you've heard the pastor talk about you've heard other Christians talk about that, but I don't know you just kind of like it well.

Every day every time you're listening to this. It's getting stuck in your mind. And so if I were to listen to a bad source Again and again and over and over that would start to affect me it could Lead me astray at least in one doctrinal area.

I mean the point is it can happen to anybody and that's why you need to be very Careful who you listen to and if you do listen to somebody who you know is a little iffy. You have to test what they say against scripture so I do listen to a lot of people that would probably surprise you who I listen to not because I Enjoy it necessarily, but I I want to know what's going on out there.

I want to be informed. But yeah, everything I hear goes through that grid of scripture. So I'm constantly it might seem like I'm scrutinizing or being critical of every little thing. But I feel like I have to be I have to test everything Against the Word of God or else that can happen to me and if it happens to a pastor Or a Bible teacher if he's led astray, then that affects can affect everyone.

Being taught by him. So it's a it's a dangerous thing. Another point I would make is this is why it's important to go verse by verse through the scripture because any pastor can get up. And quote a verse from that quote a verse from here quote a verse from there.

And if it's out of its proper context, it's easy to quote verses and make the Bible Sound like it's teaching something that it really isn't. I mean we all quote verses and that's fine. And if you're only Stating that one verse technically you have removed it from its context.

But I'm just saying when that's the way preaching is all the time. It's very easy to get. It's it's easy to twist the scripture when you're going verse by verse it it kind of guards against that. All right, any other questions before we move on?

All right so that's the antidote and now we move on to The second part so schism. This is number two number one. We looked at setting the stage number two schism the division between the East and the West.

Okay, as we enter the high Middle Ages, that's the 11th through the 13th centuries tensions continued to escalate between the Eastern and Western halves of Roman Christendom until they reached a breaking point a number of factors contributed to the strained relationship including first cultural and political differences.

Part of the distancing between the East and West was due to political cultural and language differences. The Eastern Church spoke Greek and was part of the Byzantine Empire. The Western Church spoke Latin and was connected politically with Europe or with the European powers like the Franks.

So you see that one problem one thing that led to division was everyone speaking a different language. They have different different cultures different traditions. Okay. Now I don't want to get sidetracked on a whole thing here, but you do realize that's what our leaders are trying to do.

In this country, they're trying to divide the nations by bringing in. Just and I think it's great Immigrate when people come here because we all know like we immigrated from Europe, right? If people want to immigrate here legally and Assimilate to American culture.

I think that's terrific again. We all came from Europe. But what are they doing? They're letting them come in Illegally and they're bringing and there's no assimilation. So just to throw that out there when everyone's speaking a different language and everyone has a different culture.

They say this makes us stronger. No, it makes us weaker and it's meant to divide. But anyways, that was just. You probably already knew that but if you can't speak the same language as somebody, you know, it's hard to have Fellowship with someone that you don't know what they're saying.

So it's just it's just the reality of it. But this was part of the problem with the Eastern and Western Church totally different language. Different cultures and they started to feel like we don't have that much in common with these people.

We're supposed to be one unified church, but If I traveled over there, it's like I wouldn't I wouldn't fit in at all. So that's one problem that started to divide East and West. The second issue the philoquy clause.

So this is in the year 1014 the Western Church Inserted the phrase quote and the Sun into the Latin version of the expanded Nicene Creed dating back to the Council of Constantinople in 381 can someone look up the Nicene Creed on the back of the hymnal mark you want to do that?

It goes on to say the edited Latin Creed taught that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son in Latin this phrase is philoquy. The Eastern Church balked at the idea that the Western Church could unilaterally change one of the historic creeds so this is.

This was sort of like this the final straw that broke the camel's back of why the Eastern and Western Church Divided because of this issue. Did the Holy Spirit Come from the Father or did the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father and the Son?

Now to you this morning. This probably doesn't seem like The most serious doctoral point to be made. Does it you probably never even really thought about that have you? But this is what divided Roman Catholicism from what we call today Eastern Orthodoxy Mark you want to just read the that relevant section of the creed.

It should say something about the Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son. Okay. So I don't know just pick your brain for a moment. Have you ever You have you ever thought about this at all. Does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father only or from the Father and the Son?

Okay, so, you know. To me, I okay. I'm thinking of a verse right testing everything with what I know about Scripture. I remember Jesus talking about giving the Holy Spirit, right? I Don't have the chapter in verse right on The tip of my tongue, but I remember Jesus talking about giving the Spirit but then he said from the Father, okay but in my mind Yeah, it's from the Father and the Son to me.

This seems accurate. So what's the problem? Why split over it and I obviously it would be important to look at Scripture more closely, which we will in a moment. But what's the real issue? It's the idea that the Pope or the Western Church can change a historic creed without even Consulting the East like we're just going to unilaterally change a Historic that was the real issue an issue of authority.

Larry.

People in regards to the deity of Christ and so if somebody Didn't really consider Jesus as God then the Holy Spirit. Right.

Good good. Okay. Anyone else? Yes, Tanya. Okay. Okay, so we have a verse that says the Spirit is being sent initially from the Father, right. Okay, I just took me 10 seconds to find it. John 16 verse 7 Jesus says.

For if I do not go away the helper will not come to you. But if I depart I Will send him to you. So in Scripture The Father is sending the Spirit and the Son is sending the Spirit. So adding and the Son I think This is right.

It's biblical, but the Eastern Church Didn't like the fact that They can just do it unilaterally so it really is an issue of authority, okay. So that's the philoque Call clause in the creed the next thing papal primacy.

This is another dividing point in the East the church viewed the bishops of Rome and Constantinople as equals. However, Pope Leo the ninth saw the Bishop of Rome as having Primacy over the bishops of Constantinople Antioch Alexandria and Jerusalem.

Leo the ninth sent a delegation led by Cardinal Humber to Constantinople in the year 1054 when the Patriarch of Constantinople refused to grant an audience to the delegation. Guess what he did. Humber issued a papal bull Excommunicating the Patriarch in response.

Guess what they did. The Patriarch Excommunicated the papal delegation. Okay. So now you have the they're excommunicating each other. Okay, so these events culminated in a split between the two halves of Roman Christendom the Eastern Church became Eastern Orthodoxy and the Western Church today we know as Roman Catholicism.

So if you look at the two, I don't know where the closest Eastern Orthodox Church is. I think there's one in Holyoke around the Holyoke area. None around our area that I know of but if you look at Eastern Orthodox Churches or Russian Orthodox.

Or there's different nations that have this this Orthodox tradition. But you look at them and the Catholic Church on the surface. They seem very very similar, but there are things that divide them purgatory Catholic Church believes in purgatory the Orthodox Church doesn't but the real issue is what?

One guy. What. Well, it's power. It's yeah, it's authority. But it really comes down to the papacy this this claim that the Pope makes that I I am head over the whole church. So later events including the fourth crusade in 1204 would deepen the rift between the Greek or Eastern and Latin or Western churches.

All right, any questions about that questions comments short. Short stories or remarks. No, okay. Here's the discussion question look up several of the following passages. So I need I need some volunteers who will speak loudly.

These verses who will look up acts 233. Aaron Romans 8 9. Lance Galatians 4 6. Linda Philippians 1 19. Well, you guys are doing so good to dad and then first Peter 1 11. Jordan. Okay good. Okay, so we're gonna look up these verses and then the question is what do these passages teach about the Holy Spirit's relationship to Christ and how do these verses relate to the filio quay controversy discussed above so.

And like I said before, you know today the big arguments in the church. Well, actually right now like how churches are gonna respond to the whole LGBT stuff like that's one big thing church. I don't know why churches are Debating and arguing over it, but that lets like into the big issue right now but before that we would argue over the timing of the rapture and The Millennium we have the mode of baptism those things churches would argue about in the early days.

They kept the person and work of Christ the person of the Holy Spirit like this was the most important thing originally in the early days and rightfully so but Let's read these verses acts 233. Okay. Romans 8 9.

So the Holy Spirit's called the Spirit of Christ, I think that's relevant. Galatians 4 6. Because you are sons. Okay, the spirit of his son. I we're seeing a theme here I think Philippians 119. Okay, the spirit of Jesus Christ and finally first Peter 111.

Searching what or what manner of time the spirit of Christ who was in them was. Indicating when he testified before the sufferings of Christ in the glories.

Okay, good. So you heard Mark read from the Creed earlier. Do you think that you know, whatever your opinion is of the Nicene Creed some people are big on creeds. Typically if you maybe grew up in a Baptist Church Baptists are not big on creeds.

But as far as the accuracy of that statement that the spirit the spirit proceeds from the father and the son. What do you think? It's that biblical. I Believe it is. Okay so If there's no other comments on that Or questions, we'll move on to number three skirmishes.

So now we're getting into the Crusades. When you hear the Crusades, what do you think of? Christians killing People everyone what? Muslims, I mean that originally was the point of the Crusades as Islam Started to spread a lot of Christians wanted to travel to Jerusalem to see You know the Holy Land and these holy sites, but Christians were going to Jerusalem and they were being attacked and killed by Muslims and of course that still happens today that sometimes a person from the West or a Christian will go to the Middle East and They are singled out because they are a Christian.

You remember when Isis was a thing. They're probably still a thing but when they were in the news they would kidnap Christians and then behead them on video and It's still happening. But anyways that that's sort of like what was going on.

It is in the Quran to pluck off the heads of the infidels. Okay, so, you know, it's like Christianity every every religion has the progressive wing of their religion where they kind of move so far away from what their holy book teaches that it's not even Barely connected anymore and then there's like the fundamentalists who are kind of sticking to literal interpretation well in Islam the problem with being a fundamentalist is that they still believe that.

As Muhammad said you should kill the infidel. Well, we should still be doing that. So yeah, it is in the Quran obviously Depending on whether you talk to a liberal Muslim scholar or a conservative mother or a fundamentalist.

They'll give you different Interpretations, but yes that is in their holy book. But people are traveling to Jerusalem to visit the Holy Land and they're being killed. So the the church decided because they had military power.

We're gonna fight this Crusade or the Crusades and you could say that because Crusades this is typically one of those things that's used Really to kind of smear Christianity as why Christianity is bad look at the the Inquisition in the Crusades the Inquisition was bad.

Their Crusades, I would at least say this that there was some I don't know just reason why you would want to defend people but I Don't think the Crusades are as bad as people make them out to be but a lot of terrible things did happen.

There were abuses. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and if that's the true motivator of the Crusades. Then there wasn't a legitimate cause but they they can play and this is true for any war you can point to.

Here's what happened. We need to do something about it to protect innocent people. But anyways not to get into the whole justification of it. But I would say that the Crusades were bad because they were attacking people for land for riches for wealth.

But that's that's what Provoked it originally. That's the official line. Okay, so five decades after the east-west schism when Muslim armies again threatened the Byzantine Empire the Eastern Emperor asked for Asked the West for military help and of course remember Church and state is totally linked together as one.

I mean, this is one of the problems of that in response Pope Urban the second called for a crusade in all there would be seven major Crusades fought over the next two centuries for the next 200 years Christian and it's in quotation marks or scare quotes Christian armies from Europe engaged in what they claimed was Again in quotation marks, holy war.

Okay, so the Crusades. They called it holy war. So, how do they justify this with Scripture? Of course a Lot of the things they did they didn't even attempt to really justify it with Scripture, but they actually did have their arguments and What did they do open up to the Gospel of John and?

No, where do you think they went? Yeah, well, they went to the Old Testament, right? So Old Testament passages instructing Israel to fight their enemies were reinterpreted for the church. New Testament passages which were military metaphors.

Or where military military metaphors are used like Ephesians 6 like spiritual warfare so Ephesians 6 10 through 18 were reimagined in literalistic terms this Misguided approach to interpretation twisted the meaning of Scripture for political purposes.

Okay, so I mean God commanded Israel in the Old Testament to fight against the enemies of God. We should still be doing that today because the church remember that this is a key part in all of this. The Catholic Church and even Reformed churches today they say that the church is what?

The church is Israel. But well, they say the church is the body of Christ, but they say the church is Israel or we are the new Israel so if Israel was commanded to do this back then we're Israel so we can do this today.

I mean, that's a overly simplistic way of arguing it. But God's people did it back then we can still do it right now. What would you say about that? Yeah, Elijah killed the prophets of Baal so They could use that.

Well, right amen to that, but does that give you know a church? The authority to go over and kill prophets of another religion in 2023 here's where we would say it's so important to rightly divide the scriptures, right?

This term Second Timothy was at 215. Rightly divide the scriptures. You need to look at who is this written to? When was it written? Why was it written? How does it apply to us today? Does it apply to us today?

There is no New Testament command for Christians to be going and you know Elijah and the prophets of Baal part two, you know. Today it's just. No, that's not a proper way to interpret the Bible. Okay, so that's how they did it partly second the theory of Quote-unquote just war.

So this is the just war theory dates back to Augustine. It argued that military conflict was justifiable when it was when it was authorized by a legitimate authority and When it had a just cause such as self-defense or defending others against evil for those who Promoted them the Crusades were justified because they were sanctioned by the Pope and were fought to defend both the Christian Pilgrims who traveled to the Holy Land and the people of the Byzantine Empire.

Who had asked for help? Okay, so this is I already said that that's the wrong way to interpret the Bible because Elijah did it we can today wrong. That's that's not the case. What about this just war theory?

And I know you're gonna have differing differing opinions. I know there are some Christians who are Pacifists they don't believe war is ever justified. But this says that war can be justified when? You're acting in self-defense or you're defending innocent people from evil tyrants.

But that's a Christian doctrine that came from Augustine. So, you know say a Christian doctrine quote-unquote because that's a debatable point. I mean I could give you my opinion. I think some wars are justified.

I Don't believe the Bible teaches pacifism, but you will you will get some disagreement. Problem is when the government tells you something. Hey, here's what's taking place. Are they actually giving you all the full and correct information?

I mean, that's kind of the sticking point.

When you look at it, it's written in the scriptures and there are people actually practicing it. We can You know collect taxes on you. If you don't convert or pay the tribute. Then we can take it. Yeah scriptures tell us.

That's what the Qur 'an says. That's what the Qur 'an says. That's what our scriptures tell us. Yeah, their scriptures. Right. And so the whole justification for the quote Holy war is. Their book tells them that this is what they're supposed to do.

We need to fight against that. Because we don't want to be beheaded. We don't need to pay tribute to support this other faith. Yeah, so. It was a justification for securing the path for pilgrims to take to Jerusalem.

But then once you establish a military and once that gets established. Then what happens? You know, they're not in constant contact with the. You know getting updates every day. Sure.

Yeah, I mean terrible things happen in Warfare. There's going to be. Not just casualties. There's going to be. Okay, let's turn to Romans 13 just for a moment. You know, I mean if you wanted to ask a question or weigh in on the just war theory.

Let me just read this last point because we got to pick up next week. We don't have time to finish it. But sadly the Crusades included Barbaric atrocities that were decidedly un-christian. These atrocities tarnished the reputation of medieval Christendom And created long-standing tensions between Western nations And people groups in the Middle East.

Now you can correct me if I'm wrong. But I remember when George W. Bush Was talking about the invasion of Iraq I think he used the word crusade Just kind of off off the cuff. And people kind of went crazy about it.

And I think he apologized Because the argument was that people in the Middle East Still remember the Crusades. So he's talking about warfare. And he used the word Maybe a lot to do about nothing. But that word crusade It's still in people's minds and memory.

And it still affects. Well You know whether it's a College classroom or the professors trying to paint All of Christianity in a negative light Because of this or people living in the Middle East Still an issue today.

Just look at Romans 13. As far as just war theory goes Does the government have. Here's the key. The church should not be waging war. The church is a Spiritual organism. Sometimes how it's put It's not the church's job to wage war.

Is it It's whose job The governing authorities. Now I would love it If Christians were in government. Like if the rulers of a certain country Were all true believers. That would be good. I mean there's problems but The point is it's not the church's job.

It's the government's job. Look at Romans 13. The Apostle Paul says let every soul be Subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority Except from God. And the authorities That exist are what.

The authorities That exist are Appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority Resist the ordinance of God. And those who resist will bring judgment On themselves. And My real point in reading this Is verse 4 that he The governing authority is God's Minister to you for good.

For he does not bear The sword in vain. He is God's minister and avenger To execute wrath on him who practices evil. So the point being The governing authorities do have the right To put murderers to death.

They do have the right to fight War. But It has to be a just war. So I think Augustine was Correct to whatever degree I do not believe the Bible Teaches pacifism but if you want to Make a case that it does You'll have to do that next week because we're out of time.

Okay, thank you.