How Should a Modern Gentleman Dress?

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I don't know if a lot of people are talking about this, at least not in my circles, and it needs to be, because I think it is part of not just American identity or male identity.

00:11

It's part of virtue. It's part of how we present ourselves to the world reflects what we think of them.

00:19

Do we love God, love your neighbor? Do we love the people around us? I think how we dress does something about that.

00:41

I'm your host, John Harris, and we have a guest today who's actually been on the podcast before. I think the last time we talked about Rhodesia, but we're going to be talking about something totally different today.

00:51

My guest is Will Tanner. He writes at the American Tribune, which you can go to theamericantribune .news

00:58

to find out more about. He also hosts a podcast called The Old World, and we're going to be talking about style, if you can believe it, and he is decked out.

01:06

Tell me about what you're wearing there, Will, so people ... Is it a special brand or anything? Not really.

01:12

I live in the American South, so it gets so hot in the summer I can't wear what I normally like, which is, for most day -to -day things,

01:20

British country clothing. Cording's and Bookster are the two places that are really good for that. It's good because it's comfortable and looks sharp if you get it to fit correctly, and also it can be used in daily life, so if you're going for a walk or whatever, it's really good all around if you live out in the country, but in the summer it's way too hot for that, so I just kind of wear what

01:43

I can. Today it's a Brooks Brothers suit. They do pretty good tailoring in store if you go in.

01:49

I've put on a little bit of muscle since I got fit for this, so it doesn't fit quite as well as I'd like, but regardless,

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Brooks Brothers does a good job with tailoring suits and just doing ones that look nice without being over -the -top or too expensive or anything.

02:05

Brooks Brothers, in my mind, and maybe this is a reflection of the class that I kind of come from.

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My parents are middle class. We look at Brooks Brothers as that's high -end stuff, and I guess it's not, but my parents would think

02:19

Brooks Brothers. Oh, no, we'll go to Joseph A. Bank to get, when I was a teenager, did I get

02:24

John a suit? Let's go there. That's bottom level, right? It's a mix.

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Now there are online ones like Suit Supply, which I wouldn't recommend, and others like that that are a good bit less expensive than Joseph A.

02:36

Bank, which I think is where I went when I was a kid just for stuff that fit, but I could outgrow. Brooks Brothers is good because it is expensive, but it's reasonably high quality and it's not overly expensive.

02:48

I wouldn't recommend getting one, but a Tom Ford suit I think costs like $10 ,000 or a

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Savile Row suit costs like $3 ,000 to $10 ,000, whereas Brooks Brothers, if you go on the right day, it's like $1 ,000 or $1 ,500 for two of them.

03:03

So it's expensive, but it's not unbearable because they last for a long time. Well, there's so many directions we can take this, but I just want to explain to the audience real quick why

03:12

I wanted to have you on because we were doing, we actually did two podcasts on, well, actually they were

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Twitter spaces, weren't they, on Heritage America with C .J. Angle. And you brought up in both podcasts, especially the second one, the importance of looking good, dressing nice, and you emphasized that, which

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I thought was kind of a curious thing. I think, you know, C .J. and I were emphasizing things like religion and cultural memory and these kinds of things.

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And when you had a chance, it seems like you always snuck in and look nice. So I think it's important, but I'm going to just be the first to admit,

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I am not good at style. Maybe that's obvious to people who even watch the podcast.

04:00

I think in the initial days, I would just wear a t -shirt or whatever I felt like wearing sometimes. And I thought that gave me an approachability.

04:08

I wasn't thinking deeply into it at all, but I have thought more and more about, especially looking at old pictures, right, the way that our grandparents lived.

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I thought more and more about the fact that people didn't walk around in sweatpants and exercise clothes with their hair disheveled or a baseball cap back in the day.

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They had nice clothes. Even the poor people had nice clothes, like New York City, 1950, and everyone's walking around in a suit.

04:36

And it's like, what happened, right? You just look at that. You're like, what happened? So obviously, there's something that hits you when you see that.

04:44

And it's like, you feel it, I think, before you can process it, or at least I do. You think it used to be better.

04:53

Old movies where the way that the women were treated, it was reflected in the clothes that the men wore.

04:59

And the ladies, too, they wore finer clothes. So maybe walk us through that, because that's the initial,

05:05

I think, for a lot of people, that's the thing that jumps out, is something changed.

05:11

It's not all good. What changed? Why don't we dress as formal now? Yes, this is why

05:18

I talk about it and think it matters. And it's the mindset shift that's involved in how we now dress.

05:25

So if you look at what you're describing, where if you look at a picture from, say, London in 1900 or New York in 1920, people are wearing different things, like the upper class men are in morning dress and guys kind of below them are in suits, including labors, generally.

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But everyone is dressed to impress, kind of. And I think that's important because it was a culture that uplifted the spirit.

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If you look at the architecture, whether it's Victorian architecture or Edwardian architecture or Gilded Age American architecture, there are certain styles that were used.

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Some of it was gaudy and over the top, but most of it just looked nice and it uplifts the spirit being around it.

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Grand Central Station or Grand Central Terminal is a great example of that, where it's not just some utilitarian train platform.

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It looks quite nice and being in it is pleasant. And it's just a different spiritual thing. Same with their churches.

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They weren't going to churches and strip malls, which sometimes churches like that are nice. The people there are good. But it's just a different thing when you go in like an old stone church that's been there for a while and is meant to uplift the spirit by looking at it.

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And clothing, I think, is the other way that that was reflected, where when it was men in morning dress and top hats or the men around them in suits that fit reasonably well and wore a tie, it showed that they cared and also it's pleasing to look upon.

06:47

And so it uplifts the spirit being around it. Quite in contrast to today, where if you go to an airport and there's always the morbidly obese people in spandex, where the fat's spilling out between the bra and the shorts that they're wearing, and it's just horrifying to be around.

07:03

It feels like you're in a Lovecraft novel or something. I think it's just a mindset change, where in the past, they did emphasize formality and caring and showing respect to those who are around as reflected in your dress and bearing and not looking gross.

07:19

Whereas today, that's all put by the wayside in the name of what you're describing, like being approachable, not being stuck up.

07:26

But it's created a different thing where now a lot of people are depressed and our culture is depressing and being around things in public is largely depressing now.

07:35

So I think it's really that mindset change. You think it's a selfishness then in the inside. You're not thinking about what other people would like to see.

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You're not treating them as precious and when they look at you, you're not thinking of what they see so much as how you feel, what makes you comfortable.

07:55

I think the way to put it would be it emphasizes the baser impulses, generally lust and sloth.

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On one hand, it's people in ratty t -shirts and sweatpants out in public, which looks bad and it's just laziness, or it's people in very skimpy clothes, like the yoga shorts and yoga bra that women like wearing or just stuff like that.

08:17

It's lust. I think that reflects something other than virtue and that we prioritize things other than virtue.

08:24

Or if it's not lust, let's say it's at the gym or something, at least it's utilitarian,

08:30

I guess. It's not. So back in the day, the day, like antebellum

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South, let's say, women wore these hoop skirts and they also, and I don't know that it was healthy for you, but they had the corsets and everything.

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And one of the things that I thought, I don't know, like that whole world, like you'd watch

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Gone with the Wind. One of the things I thought is that, you know, Scarlett O 'Hara, the main character, she's beautiful.

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She is just a beautiful person and in the dress and everything complements her features.

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Obviously, going back to what, 1938, 1939, whenever that came out. But the whole society, even in postbellum

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America, still valued some of that to some extent, at least. And now

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I think a girl and I'm not, we're not girls, obviously, but and we'll get on the guys here in a minute.

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But the girls seem to be a lot of them thinking that they have to show,

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I don't know, it's like the difference between the architecture of the church and the strip mall, basically like they have to show certain parts of their body that would induce a male to lust in order to be beautiful.

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It's like a confusion of beauty and those baser instincts. And I don't know, there's something noble about the way people used to dress.

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And it's the same for men. But although men don't seem to me as maybe as focused, maybe you disagree with this, but I don't think they're as focused on the lust aspect.

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But what do you think? What's what's the made men become stops? I think it's just the laziness and not having to do things.

10:09

And so people just don't do it when they don't have to anymore. Like the point you made about women is particularly interesting, because if you look at the different folkways of America, really the two places where that was prevalent were

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Knickerbocker, New York. So coming from the Dutch, but not like Puritan Dutch.

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And then the antebellum South, which was largely cavalier or Celtics pretending to be cavaliers.

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Regardless, it was that sort of like hierarchy focused society, but paired with like enjoying fun being cavaliers.

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That wasn't the case in Puritan New England. And it creates a different culture where it's fun loving and exciting and not really stuck up in the way we think of, but but also hierarchical where you need to emphasize who you are.

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And so that's how you get something like how Scarlett O 'Hara is presented in the movie or how her lovers are presented in the movie where the bust is emphasized in those old antebellum dresses and the ones they're wearing in New York, which really infuriated the

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Puritans at the time. If you read about it, which is entertaining, but it's still it's not slovenly in the way that today anything that does that is generally gross looking.

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It's the dress still complements the form without revealing too much. Whereas now it's purely meant to like expose the form.

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It's a it's like a slight difference. But I think the lack of formality takes away the the aesthetic appeal and makes it more about vice than about the spirit or about what it represents in society.

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But I suppose you could go the other way and you could be hyper you could sexualize everything in the harnessing dress dress for modesty.

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You could you could say that so as not to create lust, women have to be dressed in a park almost like they have to be so covered that it actually makes you hyper fixate on lust to think about that because it's like it's not natural in a way.

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I've also noticed that that's in certain, I guess, sub -Christian groups that that can become a hyper fixation that's not good.

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But well, that's certainly a thing with the Muslims, like where you see the plastic line with like, oh, you have to wear the burka because it's like a candy wrapper.

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It's like, well, I don't want you being around the women in our culture if you're thinking them as unwrapping candy. As you said, it just it overdoes it to such a degree.

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Whereas I think the more like free flowing cavalier attitudes regarding it that are still rooted in something close to Western tradition is a much better way of approaching it.

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Peak fashion for women was like 1855 or I think just before the 1920s,

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OK, changed and it was easier to do things. But it was really the 20s when the flappers, yeah, the flappers,

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I think that aesthetic is gross. So I think a lot changed for the worse on them. Yeah, it's kind of androgynous a little bit.

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Yes, it is. But for the men, we're talking about the women. I I'm kind of curious about the men because I think most of my audience is male and I'm curious for my own sake,

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I would like to do better and have pointers on how to treat other people as precious in the way

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I dress and respect them. So maybe before we well, let's continue the history and then we'll get into the practical end of it.

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But so historically, what do you think if you had to put a date on it, when did everything change?

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So I think the period people think of is traditional Western fashion began more or less with the rise of the

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Tudors in England in the like the end to the Middle Ages that brought and then continued all the way until probably the

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World War II would be the best place to put an end to it. And so if you look at what people are wearing in that period, it really like the

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Tudors to the Stuarts and then William and Mary.

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That's where you saw the development of the frock coat and breeches and riding boots. I'll just talk about men because it's easier with the tricorn hat is what you get at the beginning of the

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Georges. And that was kind of how fashion developed as people were going from fighting over their feudal baronies all the time to existing in a society that more or less functioned, at least in England.

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And also this was happening in France and Germany around the same period. And so that's where you get what becomes the mainstay of men's fashion for centuries, where it's the frock coat, which still exists as morning dress or a tailcoat, where it's somewhat longer.

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The sleeves originally had those large cuffs. Now they don't.

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But it's like a more formal jacket. And so that was worn as men's outerwear for the rest of the period, where first it's like the ones you think of with pirates and Pirates of the

15:05

Caribbean or as the cuffs and the gold buttons and the fun colors that continued until like the early 19th century in various forms.

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Pants or breeches typically tucked into riding boots or stockings and slippers for most of that period.

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But really the boot aesthetic is what stuck. And then a shirt was worn under it with a waistcoat, which is essentially a vest you wear under a jacket.

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And so that's how things developed for a long period. The culmination of that was the

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Gilded Age of Victorian aesthetic, where the tricorn hat was replaced by the top hat, which is, you know, it's a fun look,

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I guess. And then the frock coat had been changed where during the day it's morning dress, which is like somewhat longer coat that just buttons with one button in the middle and then slopes back.

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And striped trousers, typically gray, with a waistcoat and shirt and something approaching a tie or cravat, which that kind of developed over the same period.

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And then at night it's tails, which is a frock coat, but it's like the pockets are cut out.

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So it's somewhat different on the front and you wear a somewhat different waistcoat, almost always white under it and then black pants.

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And so that's where things had developed by the time that like World War One happened, where that was the height of men's fashion.

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Meanwhile, that was really just for the upper class because it's very impractical to wear around. It's somewhat different than like a coat and riding boots.

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It got more formal. For everyone else, that's where the suit developed, where it's typically a matching coat and trousers.

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In England, really, it was coarser fabrics than the one we think of. In Italy, that's where you get like the

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Italian fabric that has that shininess to it. But regardless, it's a coat with pockets, a couple buttons.

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Originally, they had them all buttoned up. Now we just do the one button in the middle and trousers that match.

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And you can wear shoes or boots with it. And so it's a little bit more practical. This is also where you get the and I know this is rambling, but that developed really like English country life before World War One was what people aspired to.

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The Germans and the French aspired to it, which is interesting. Tuckman talks about that in The Proud Tower, how the others were trying to ape the

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British. But in the country is where things were more realistic and more casual than in the cities.

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So this is where you get for fox hunting, you get a revival of the traditional Georgian aesthetic where it's still the red riding coat like that.

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You see people riding around on fox hunts and those prints that they called a pink coat because the tailor's last name was

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Pink. The white breeches, typically they were chalked to make them even more white. And then the top boots, which is the black boots with like the tannish stripe going along the top.

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And that's what they wore generally while riding, which horses were such a big thing in the period. It became very popular for wearing that while chasing around foxes when not doing that.

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So when shooting or when just walking around either as a farmer or as someone who is managing your estate in the country, that's where the tweed suit developed, where you can tuck it into Wellington boots to walk through the mud.

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But it's trousers and a jacket almost always that match because tweed looks extremely bad when the patterns are different, which people forget.

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But it just looks awful and you can tell something's off. So it's almost always matching like a typical suit with a waistcoat sometimes, sometimes not.

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But tweed is a very versatile fabric because it looks nice, it looks like a suit, but it's also thicker and tougher where you can wear it through the countryside and do whatever and it doesn't really get damaged.

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So Cordings, which is the company I mentioned earlier, for example, came out with what they called covered cloth and the covered coat, which is a top coat in this very thick cloth where you can ride on a horse through briars.

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I've actually had to walk through briars in one before and it didn't get damaged. It just bounced them off because it's thick, it's waterproof, snowproof.

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It's really nice. So that was the aesthetic that developed in the country, where it's these greens, browns, yellows, corduroys, tweed, that sort of thing.

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And that's really where things were going, where it's an ability to look nice while also functioning in a hierarchical but casual atmosphere, somewhat like the

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American South. And so during the summer you get the linen, the gabardine, the silk that's very similar in that it's a little bit more colorful than the gray and black worn in the city, but also more practical because you can do things in it rather than just stand around.

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And society was culminating to that point because the British had come up with it more or less.

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And then the Germans and French wanted to be like them because it showed wealth and power and prestige. And so they were aping it.

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It was becoming prevalent in those countries as well, I think to a lesser extent, Russia, but they were always kind of different.

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And then everything ends in the cataclysm of World War I, where so many people die, everything becomes more expensive.

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There's this depression that sets in where the look somewhat survived after that, but the formality started to die out.

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So men generally didn't wear white tie to dinner anymore, whereas originally gentlemen, whether eating at home or eating out, would wear white tie, so either morning dress or tails, depending on the time of day to eat.

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Women would wear tiaras and ball dresses to eat, very formal.

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That died with World War I because everything was just so expensive. And that's where you get the development of black tie.

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So the tuxedo is technically semi -formal because it's much less formal than white tie.

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It's more like a suit, but of a somewhat different fabric. And yeah, it's much easier to put on without having a servant do it for you.

20:52

You have to tie the bow tie, but that's not too bad. It's just a little bit easier to deal with.

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It's less formal. It doesn't look as formal when you see them side by side. And that came out of the 20s, and it's, for whatever reason, what we stuck with even as society got wealthier again.

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We're now pretty much everything other than some debutante parties and some afternoon weddings in the

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South or in England is black tie. So that's where that came out of, and that's where what we call formality has developed to where it's just the tuxedo.

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And this is also the period where morning dress was obliterated, and pretty much everyone just wears either a gray or blue city suit to work if they're working in the city.

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That's where you get that. And really, the development of the suit is something that the upper class rather than just the middle class wore.

21:44

That is fascinating, and I'm very impressed, Will. You know, you're able to describe all that without pictures, and I think our audio listeners are going to track with what you're saying there.

21:55

Now there's actually this kind of high end resort not far from me, and I got a brother in law who works there, and I've been up there.

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And it's funny. Now I'll go up there and I'll see people in really expensive clothing, but it's casual clothing.

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It's sometimes, you know, it's like workout clothing and stuff, but it's name brand and stuff. And that's kind of where we're at now, which is that's such a departure from even everything you just talked about, which

22:20

I think it does reflect a degradation, some kind of a going downhill socially.

22:27

What's the purpose of the tie? Just out of curiosity, take a little side tour here, because it just seems like an extraneous thing.

22:34

Yeah, I made myself put one on for this because we're going to be talking about it. Generally, I hate the tie, but so there are a couple of things that you notice if you try and dress like this in the cold, which most of Western Europe is generally cold for at least most of the year.

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So it kind of makes sense. One is that if you leave a shirt unbuttoned, you get much colder, particularly if it's just the top button.

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Even the wind cuts in deeper, even if you're wearing an overcoat, it's just not as comfortable. So keeping it buttoned up and you can think about this in terms of they're on horseback when this is happening.

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So they don't want a bunch of crap flying around. They want the top covered, their neck covered. They don't get as cold and everything stays together.

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But without having some scarf that's choking them as it trails in the wind. And so that first developed is the cravat kind of I think that's what they called it at the time.

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And we still have them, although they're somewhat different now. And it was something that the Magyar horsemen that were attacking

23:31

Western Europe to the Hungarians war and the French developed it from there. And if you look at, say, the founding fathers, since we just have the most pictures of them, it's that white thing that's wrapped around the neck where it looks difficult to tie.

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It's somewhat overwrought, but it's on the neck, covers the neck. And so that was, from what

23:49

I gather, supposed to just it had like something of a practical purpose in terms of, you know, cutting out the wind,

23:56

I guess. It then developed a scarf almost kind of. And I could be wrong on this, but that's my impression, at least, of kind of why people kept it is you need to stay buttoned together in the cold of Europe, particularly when you're on horseback.

24:09

And the cravat was a good way to start that. It then developed. It's like an impractical thing where if you're thinking of all this stuff wrapped around your neck, who wants to do that, particularly if you don't have servants?

24:19

So then it went two ways. One is the modern cravat that we have, which is essentially just like a bandana that you tie around your neck, but it's silk and looks nice.

24:28

The other is the modern tie, which kind of developed out of variations of it, which ties in a knot like this or there are different variations of the knot and it keeps the collar together.

24:38

It looks nice because if you see someone with like a collar that's buttoned without a tie, it just looks kind of odd, at least generally like the collar goes all the way up.

24:45

Right. Well, it makes sense why in the South bow ties are popular because you can still it's not quite as,

24:54

I guess, insulating. And then in the southwest, bow ties are somewhat popular and that's also less insulating.

25:01

So I hadn't really thought of that, but yeah, that's probably true. Now, one of the things that a lot of guys,

25:09

I think, in our generation grew up with is if you know anything about style, care about style, want to look nice, we playground kids associate that with homosexuality.

25:21

OK, I don't know where that started or how that started or why. I mean,

25:26

I understand someone who's vain and really into themselves and their looks like their vanity is actually a vice like that's not good.

25:35

Maybe make that maybe you can make that separation for us and then talk about why men who are married and have children should care about what they look and maybe then we could go into specific styles and kind of what matches and that kind of thing.

25:51

Yeah. So there's a story here that I think is on point and it comes from the Middle Ages in the court of Charlemagne, where I think this was after he built his capital at Aachen, a bunch of his nobles had traveled to the

26:01

Byzantine East to see what they were up to, try and learn some things about governance. While they were there, they got really into the semi -Oriental

26:09

Byzantine culture with all the silks and the gaudy crap that they were wearing at the time. And so they came back to Charlemagne's court and they were wearing all the men were wearing all these silk ribbons and ridiculous appendages.

26:20

And Charlemagne got annoyed. So it was raining outside. Everything's muddy. It's in the winter. He goes, OK, great.

26:25

We're going hunting. So he made them all go hunting with them in the rain, chasing stags to the briars. And their clothes just got shredded, whereas whatever he was wearing was fine because it was appropriate for the environment.

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So they get back to court and he says, OK, don't wear this ever again. You're men, you're supposed to act like it.

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You should dress as you ought, which is befitting your station, but also not just extraneous stuff that's pointless and makes you look like a woman.

26:47

So they learned their lesson. And that's kind of how European men's fashion developed, where there are reasons to wear colors, whether it's camouflage or unit symbols in the military.

26:58

But really, European fashion trended towards the drabber colors, black and gray in the city and then green and the light tan and the like in the country were in the clothes developed alongside that, too, where it's practical for the environment because it's generally cold in Europe and you want to be protected from the sun as well.

27:17

So you need to protect yourself from the environments and also be able to wear, which is where the coat, the vest, all that is actually very useful and practical.

27:25

But also there's not all this like extraneous stuff that we think of, like, for example, gentlemen traditionally never wore rings and didn't wear wristwatches because it's jewelry and you shouldn't wear jewelry.

27:39

Now, signet rings were used for closing envelopes, but still the British peerage and gentry doesn't wear wedding rings because you shouldn't wear jewelry as a man.

27:48

It's weird. There's no purpose to it. So that's a thing and that's why you never see like British people, at least traditionally wearing gold chains around or those gold chain bracelets.

27:58

It's just that sort of stuff should be cut out because it's extraneous. And I think that's really the mindset where you should dress in a way that is uplifting to those around you and befits your station as a person where you're not like Mark Zuckerberg dressing down so people forget you're a billionaire.

28:13

But you also shouldn't be wearing stuff that's extraneous to the purpose you're going about in life.

28:19

So, you know, wearing a suit to the gym would be weird. You know, that doesn't mean you need to wear like a speedo at the gym.

28:25

You should still cover up. But, you know, there's variations to it. So I think that is the origin of why

28:32

European men dressed as they did, where it's very practical for country living and to a somewhat lesser extent for city living.

28:40

And this meant to handle the environment around you while also looking nice, but without being too much.

28:46

You look at some of those old French kings, King Louis the 15th, and he's he's he's got like high heels on and you're like, what is going on there?

28:57

Seems pretty. So the English didn't like that. Yeah, it's always somewhat different with royals because they have to, you know, impress.

29:05

So that's where you get the robes with like the velvet and the Hermine for. And to some extent, it's about being impressive and wearing that ceremonially.

29:12

But if you look at, say, around the same time that that's happening in France, so the early seventeen hundreds, this is when the

29:20

Georgian kings are wearing just frock coats and riding boots and hunting in the countryside or, you know, it's it's just somewhat less.

29:27

So when it's at court, that was always a little bit different, particularly once everyone got wealthier.

29:33

But generally, at least most of it was geared towards being practical and looking nice with the somewhat exception of monarchy, because you're going to dress differently in like the procession they did for Charles than you are in most of the rest of life.

29:48

So right now, as we're talking for those listening on audio, you're wearing a suit. I think you're wearing a suit, right? It's not just a sport jacket.

29:54

Yeah. So you got a suit on from Brooks Brothers. And oh, by the way, before I I just noticed this is your collar is that seems like a little pointier and longer than a lot of collars.

30:05

Is it a special kind of collar? No, I think it just looks like that because of the angle. OK, all right.

30:10

All right. Never mind. All right. So you're wearing a suit. I'm wearing a what would you even call this?

30:16

Just a collared shirt is what I'd say. But it was a plaid with like a checkered shirt, checkered shirt.

30:22

And it's so I would associate what I'm wearing with kind of rural

30:27

American life, perhaps it's if I threw on a sport jacket,

30:34

I think today it would be considered business casual, just a collared shirt, a sport jacket. I don't know this checkered shirt.

30:41

I don't know if that would work or not. But if I go out and I'm going to take my wife out to eat and we're not going to formal dining, we're just going to Texas Roadhouse or Five Guys or something.

30:51

Right. I'll wear this shirt out. Now, I'm open to correction. I don't know if I think this is an appropriate shirt to wear.

30:59

This this tell it's a little bit above what the other people in the restaurant will probably be wearing, because a lot of them are going to be in T -shirts.

31:06

You know, I took the shirt in because that's why there's tails. Like, I'm not going to be a slob and just wear it out.

31:12

And I'll have a belt and maybe some some maybe jeans.

31:18

But more often than not, now I'm doing like boat pants or I don't even know what you call them, like Dickies.

31:24

So they're they're like they're different colors. Sometimes they're jeans, but they're different color jeans. So it's just sort of a step above.

31:32

So so I guess I'm explaining all that to the audience to say what I'm describing about myself,

31:39

I associate with like your red blooded American male, and I think most people would like that's your real

31:47

American walking in Texas Roadhouse, right? And maybe he's got some some boots on, but they're nice boots or the cowboy boots.

31:55

You know, I wear like cowboy boots. So Western kind of frontier clothing.

32:01

One of the things you said was looking nice as part of being a heritage

32:06

American. So I what I just describe in my mind, this is part of my heritage. But you're

32:12

I think you might have a different take on that because you're talking about like the way that Anglo British people dress and how that kind of filters into America.

32:20

So talk about what you associate with your American style.

32:26

And if you had it your way for a day, what all the guys would look like, what would they dress in? Yeah, so I think the foundation here, in addition to the

32:34

Charlemagne story, is there's this great passage describing Jefferson and Washington in a book called

32:40

The Age of Federalism, where they're talking about how the Virginians would act. And the Virginians are relevant because they're largely

32:46

Anglo Saxon, like middle class to upper class or lower upper class types.

32:52

So like the gentry to the prosperous yeomen is really what the Virginians politically were and how they dressed at the time.

32:59

And they did this very intentionally, was taking British fashion. So the frock coat, the breeches, the riding boots, the waistcoat, all that.

33:07

But instead of aping it just exactly, they modified it for American life, which was always somewhat hardier than in England because we still did have a frontier.

33:16

Indians were a non -zero threat to Virginia in 1760 and changed it based on that to be intentionally somewhat more casual while still sticking within the rules of looking nice.

33:28

So like Jefferson was known for in corduroy pants instead of traditional breeches when riding or meeting with people, the waistcoats would be of American wool instead of silk or something like that, where it was just intentionally a little bit more casual and more meant for the environment, which

33:43

I think is relevant in America because you would look insane if you wore black tie to five guys at 6 .15.

33:52

There's that. But so I think that's like a good general framework for thinking about, well,

33:58

I don't want to look like an ass and make a fool of myself, but I also would like to look nice. And so there are a few basic things.

34:04

One is most people wear golf shirts in place of a polo shirt when they're trying to wear something short sleeves, which looks ridiculous because a golf shirt is meant for being able to swing around.

34:16

Like if you think of the golf motion, you're moving your body a lot. So it has much longer tails than an actual shirt.

34:23

So if you leave it untucked, it looks kind of like a dress because it comes down to like mid thigh, if not lower, because it has to be if you're tucking it in to play golf as you traditionally do.

34:32

So it looks weird. Whereas a polo shirt, which Ralph Lauren makes these Brooks Brothers makes these is meant to, you know, originally it was for polo, but now people don't wear them for polo much anymore.

34:42

But regardless, it's meant for being tucked in without like moving your body around a ton in that way.

34:49

So it's not as long like it fits the body a little bit more closely, particularly if you're muscular. I think it looks sharper.

34:56

It's a it's generally not like a silk or performance fabric. It's cotton or something like that. That kind of looks like a heavier duty fabric and is easier to wear around in the woods without it getting all torn up.

35:08

So I would say first, think about the purpose of what you're wearing. And if you're just trying to, you know, do something where you're wearing a collar and looking nice and it's hot out where you don't want to wear long sleeves, a polo shirt is the way to do it because it's meant more for that purpose in the way that a golf shirt is meant for an active just in different purpose.

35:26

And so when you're going out to dinner or something, you should wear something like that. I think that rule, I have a bunch until someone pointed it out.

35:34

I was like. You notice it if you look in the mirror, I have now you've ruined me, I have to.

35:39

I don't even play golf. What am I doing? OK, but so that's one thing. The second would be for pants.

35:45

What you're describing. What are they called? Chinos are generally the best way to look a little bit nicer while having the durability of jeans like Jocko Willink's origin makes some great ones.

35:59

They're made of cotton, really like jeans. That's a little bit both nicer looking and about as durable.

36:05

And it's generally in khaki rather than blue. And I think that's what I wear. Yeah. OK, so I think that's great for men's just wearing around pants, whether you're going on a walk or going out to dinner.

36:16

If it's not too hot or wearing that is just unbearable, then I think generally that's the way to do it for footwear if you're not walking a bunch.

36:23

So generally, I think you don't wear tennis shoes if you're doing something other than going for a jog or walk or playing tennis, you know, which then it makes sense.

36:34

But, you know, if you're going out to dinner or going to a cocktail party or going out to the bar with people, if you're not going to be walking around a bunch,

36:41

I think loafers look great. They're not super expensive. Generally, it's like two to three hundred dollars for a nice pair of leather loafers, penny loafers, particularly not the lace up ones.

36:50

If you're doing something where you think you're going to be walking more, the best compromise is captoe boots, which look like a captoe shoe, but come up to like mid calf and lace up where they look really sharp in most situations.

37:02

And they're really easy and comfortable to walk around in. There's a bunch of companies that make those.

37:07

Alden is probably the best American one. And Crockett and Crockett and Jones, the best English one, depending on what you like.

37:13

But regardless, so like a polo shirt with a belt that is of a leather that matches the shoes you're wearing because you don't want to mix leathers.

37:21

It looks weird and it's stylistically wrong. And then like khaki colored Chino pants,

37:26

I think, is generally the way to do things just as like the situations you're describing. I think that's the right uniform for that.

37:33

And you can always toss a blazer on it if appropriate, because a blazer in the polo, particularly in the summer, look fine.

37:39

And technically, again, it's against the rules of fashion, but it looks reasonably good. And I'm wondering if the cultural leaders change.

37:47

And that's because you just kind of sparked my mind because there's these guys. Obviously, you've seen people and I think certain minority communities tend to be more this way, but they they'll bring out the

37:58

Air Jordans or something like this is the formal event. Look at my sneakers. And I'm like,

38:04

I've always thought that was kind of silly, but it just dawned on me.

38:11

They're admiring sports stars, though. They're admiring basketball players. And maybe as our as the the tech giants have become the new kind of rich class and they're

38:25

I mean, I can't think of one that actually dresses formally like one of the most formal ones is the

38:31

CEO of Amazon. I remember his name and he's not even formal. What's his name? Is it

38:36

Jeff Bezos? Yeah, Bezos. Bezos will have a sport jacket on. But like, you know, Musk doesn't generally have one.

38:43

The CEO of Facebook doesn't. Steve Jobs was like very known for that.

38:49

And neither is the CEO of Microsoft. This is weird. They're very sloppy, kind of hippie, like the hippie class kind of became they filtered into the elite classes.

39:00

And then the other celebrities were sports stars. And I'm wondering if that's what happened. Like they just affected the fashion so much.

39:06

All right. It's a theory. So I think you're right. There are a couple of things going on there that I think are relevant.

39:13

One is that, as you pointed out, it's just a different type of person who's in the public eye a lot, which isn't great.

39:20

And like, you know, Elon probably has some variation of like autism or Asperger's. Not that he's not like, you know, he can function well, but, you know, he's a little bit off.

39:29

Same with Zuckerberg. Same with Steve Jobs, where it's hard to get those people and be like, no, you need to wear a suit because, you know, none of them have ever done that or ever.

39:37

Well, he's done like the T -shirt with printing tucked into like a black jeans with a sport jacket and a huge belt buckle and then a hat.

39:46

And I'm like, like a trucker hat. And I'm like, what? What's going on? Yeah.

39:51

Yeah. It's just it's weird. And it's you know, it's you just kind of have to look past those people because they are kind of cultural leaders, but they're just always going to be different because they're mentally wired a little bit different.

40:01

I think the other big thing is the resistance to the outfit of the managerial class because that group is just despised by like everyone and has been for a while and really ever since World War Two brought an end to morning dress and the suit replaced it.

40:17

Their outfit has been an Italian suit with like a Brooks Brothers calls it the

40:22

Madison cut. So like a French cuff shirt with like the collar that flips down with no buttons and a silk tie is what they've worn for everything.

40:29

It's what the D .C. lobbyists wear. It's what most of our congressmen wear. It's what like the, you know, HR person, if it's a male in your office wears or the

40:36

C -suite guy. And, you know, everyone dislikes them because they're very dislikeable people. They're very credential driven. Just, you know, the type of person that Americans I think largely find kind of odd in a different way than the tech people.

40:47

So there's a resistance to dressing like that and wearing the normal suit, which I somewhat agree with because it's the outfit of a despised class that's often very liberal, but also snobby.

40:58

So I think the there are alternatives that should be recommended for things where you're not just wearing a polo and she knows if you want me to get into those.

41:08

Yeah, let's well, yeah, we could get practical. What should men have in their wardrobe? And maybe, well,

41:16

I think you'll probably get into it as you describe it, like what what matches so people aren't mismatching.

41:21

Right. Like even what you said about a belt matching your boots, maybe matching your wristband on your watch.

41:26

I don't think I started thinking that way until I got married, to be quite honest with you. I wouldn't even

41:32

I was oblivious to it. So anyway, what we have in our wardrobe. OK, so start we'll just start at the watch because that's the easiest.

41:40

If you want to buy a nice watch, which many guys like doing that at some point to think about, you don't want it looking like jewelry because that looks weird.

41:47

Like you'll look like a rapper if it has a bunch of diamonds on it and crap like that. The you just like one with a leather strap and particularly a brown leather strap and a gold bezel for the day is nice.

41:59

It looks good. It matches with most belts and shoes you'll be wearing during the day. I'd recommend something like that.

42:04

I think it looks good. There are a bunch of vintage ones that looks nice enough and aren't overly expensive. And oh, and so that reminds me,

42:13

I'll just bring it up now. If you're wearing anything that's semi -formal or formal, it's very much a faux pas to wear a watch.

42:19

So if you're going to like a black tie wedding or a debutante ball or black tie like charity dinner or, you know, whatever the situation is where you're wearing a tuxedo, you shouldn't wear a watch because traditionally the thought was at such an event, a gentleman doesn't care about the time because you're there to have fun and revel with your compatriots.

42:40

So you shouldn't wear a watch. And that's just like a traditional rule, which a lot of people forget now. But it's like a thing where you shouldn't do that.

42:47

The next part is, so thinking about the seasons, the most versatile shirt is the polo

42:52

I mentioned earlier, like white, blue, some of the fun colors. Have a couple of those in your wardrobe.

42:58

You can wear them a lot as long as you just hang dry them. They last forever. So stuff like that is great.

43:04

Same with chinos, just like a couple pairs of khaki chinos that fit you well, meaning they don't come down too long and rumple up over your shoes and they're not like too tight or too loose in the waist.

43:13

Not overly expensive. They last forever and they're useful in those situations. So go with that.

43:20

If you play like golf and stuff, shirts and shorts are more specific from there.

43:25

So do whatever works best for that. I'll just move on. Next is for somewhat more formal situations.

43:32

I think the best thing are just khaki colored wool pants that you have tailored to be the right length and make sure the right size.

43:41

It'll probably set you back like one hundred and fifty dollars a pair if you get them tailored in the store, maybe a little bit less if you take them to the

43:47

Vietnamese lady that does tailoring wherever you are. Either way, it's fine. They'll look nice. A cuff looks better than not having a cuff just because it fits better over the shoe, whereas when it's just like a straight line,

43:59

I think it looks kind of odd and there's less wiggle room with it, in my opinion.

44:06

For wearing those, just the traditional khaki color is best. I like white ones, blue ones, red ones.

44:13

Sounds fun at first, but then you realize they match with very little and often are of a lower quality because most people don't wear them.

44:19

So just like some look for like English drill cloth trousers and wear those. Get a couple pairs.

44:25

They look good for a shirt in that situation. A Brooks Brothers Oxford cloth button down there, like seventy dollars.

44:32

It's somewhat different than what I'm wearing now, just because it's a little bit more this one wasn't at the dry cleaners. So but regardless,

44:38

Oxford cloth, it's a little bit thicker. It's easier to wear around if you end up having to walk a bunch, just more comfortable in that situation.

44:45

It looks a little bit more American because it's like a classic preppy American thing to wear. And it has a button down collar like this, but it's a slightly different color shape and they look good.

44:54

It's useful in most situations as long as it's not like a formal event. So a couple of those white and blue are great.

45:01

You can get different with it if you want. But to start out, just like a couple of those in white and blue are great to wear over that.

45:07

A blue blazer is. Versatile because you can wear it in pretty much any situation other than a formal one.

45:15

It looks good. You just have to get it fit once and they last for a long time because the cloth is of what's

45:22

I forget the name. On a blazer. Mm hmm. I don't know.

45:27

It has. I can't remember now. But regardless, if you just get like a traditional navy blue blazer, it's it'll be the right cloth and it it fits quite well.

45:36

It's nice. They look good. They're versatile. Get a couple pocket squares for them because people like pocket squares will kind of show you you're thinking about it.

45:44

It's just they're inexpensive. It's a nice thing. Is it wool or sir? Well, I'm looking it up.

45:50

Oh, yeah. Oh, it's worsted wool. That's what I was thinking of. Worsted wool. OK. Anyway, it's just a little bit more durable than traditional suiting.

45:57

And then also you'll want a couple of sports coats eventually for summer, like a silk sport coat is great or a madras sport coat.

46:07

They're both very light fabrics that are comfortable to wear in the heat. So you'll be able to wear it when it's hot outside, which is nice. You can get them in fun colors and it'll look good.

46:15

Just make sure the pants and shirt match. Brooks Brothers sells some great ones and they're not overly expensive for winter.

46:22

This is where tweed start, like fall, winter, early spring is where tweed and British country apparel starts being a thing and being nice for that sort of thing, for, you know, dressing well in the winter, one or two tweed suits if you want, or you can just stick with the blazer.

46:40

It's somewhat a faux pas to wear them in the city if you have a big job, if you have a job in one of the big metropolises in America like D .C.

46:47

or New York. But other than that, it's fine. And something that looks nice generally in like a green or brown tattersall is the shirts that you traditionally wear with those.

46:57

It was originally horse blankets in London when they were selling the horses was at this place called Tattersalls and he used this check pattern.

47:04

They turned it into shirts and they're really great country shirts or just shirts for active life because they're super comfortable.

47:10

They have fun patterns. They're extremely durable just because they're made of generally a cotton wool blend, sometimes just cotton.

47:16

But anyway, they work great. Go well with tweed. And you can always just wear the tweed suit jacket.

47:22

Generally they're called hacking jackets because they're a little bit less formal and meant to be ridden on a horse originally. But regardless, because they're less formal, you can wear them with chinos or something like that or your khaki pants instead of the suit pants.

47:34

And just generally for ties, thinking about that, I prefer what these are, which is a woven wool tie.

47:42

It's somewhat less formal than a silk one. They're a little bit less expensive. But more importantly, they're not something like the managerial types like.

47:50

So it's just a little bit different and I think looks a little bit nicer. Cordings is a place

47:56

I could get that. Then what else? So for winter, typically you'll need to wear a coat over your sport coat if you live anywhere that gets even remotely cold.

48:04

So like I live in Virginia, it's too cold here to just wear a tweed jacket in the winter. So you have to wear a top coat.

48:10

The best things for that one would be just a traditional Navy or black top coat from anywhere reputable

48:18

Macy's, J .C. Penny. They're much nicer ones where it's something where you can spend as much as you want to.

48:25

But, you know, just go make sure it fits well and it gets tailored and it'll be good for more casual life.

48:32

And this one, it really is useful because you can wear it during the winter when you're on a walk or something. And it's much better than a synthetic coat.

48:38

It's a cordings cover coat. It's made of a thick tweed that's waterproof, briar proof, but also breathes better than anything synthetic because it's wool.

48:47

So you can button up and it'll be perfect for most fall and winter situations where it's cold out and you don't need to wear a jacket under it because it's kind of meant to be a little bit more casual.

48:55

But you can wear it over a jacket if you'd like. And it's a little bit expensive, but they last for at least your lifetime, maybe your kid's lifetime, too.

49:05

So it's worth getting and they're comfortable. The other thing for winter is often you're not going to want to wear a jacket for whatever reason.

49:13

Things are a little bit too too casual where you'd look weird if you showed up in a suit. So you don't want to do that there instead of getting one of those puffy vests or one of the like, you know, ridiculous

49:25

North Face ones that the consultants love because they come with like the Bain Capital logo on them. Instead of getting that, there's a company called

49:31

Chofill that makes what they call a gillette, which is essentially a zip up vest, but made for active life.

49:38

And it looks a little bit different. It goes really well with like khaki pants and a tattersall shirt. And they're not overly expensive, but something like that.

49:47

It looks fabulous. People like it. It looks a little bit different than the vests the consultants wear. And I'd recommend that.

49:53

So then for belt and shoes, for belts like a if let me think.

50:03

So if you're willing to spend a bit more, there's a type of leather called a cordovan that's made from like horses hide.

50:10

And it's a little bit more expensive because there aren't as many horses as there are cows. But it lasts far, far, far longer than anything that's a traditional cow leather.

50:19

And it also doesn't get scuffed up much. So it you don't really need to polish it very often. You don't really need to get it reworked at all.

50:27

It'll just last for forever and look nice the whole time. So I'd recommend a pair of Alden cordovan penny loafers, which they're a little bit expensive, but like I've had my pair for maybe 15 years ish and maybe 12.

50:41

But like I haven't even needed to get the soles redone or shine them much in that period.

50:46

So they last forever. And they're Brooks Brothers or whomever makes matching belts or so a pair of number eight cordovan or similar like darkish brown loafers, cap toe boots and the belt that matches is great for daytime.

51:00

And then if you ever need something more formal, a pair of black cap toe shoes and matching belt, that's really all you need.

51:07

It'll be a little bit expensive, but they last for forever and you can just get it once as long as it fits. So I'd recommend that.

51:14

And then Smathers and Branson makes the needlepoint belts that look fun. You can get those if you want.

51:20

They go well with brown leather shoes. Yeah, well, I'm about like 20 grand in the hole right now.

51:27

I only have like everything you mentioned, I think I have maybe like three of those items.

51:35

So I don't know if you well, you kind of maybe you did sort of mention the kinds of suits and the kinds of blazers and stuff.

51:44

How many sport coach should a guy have? How many suits? So one thing you have to think of is if it's a super distinctive jacket, you can't wear it that often because people notice that you're wearing like the jacket with the weird red window panes all the time and just find it odd that you're wearing something that's kind of like eccentric really frequently.

52:04

So for like normal business suits, if you have a job or you need to wear a business suit, one like I'm wearing that's just gray in like a houndstooth fabric or something kind of similarly informal and a little bit more durable, you can just get one in gray and wear it as you need to.

52:19

Same with a blazer. You can just get one blue blazer and wear it as you need to. Probably just single breasted instead of double breasted because the double breast ones are a little bit more formal and like an eccentric

52:29

British thing, which they look good, but you don't need it. And then a slightly more formal suit for weddings that aren't black tie or funerals or work that's more formal like dark navy blue is probably best for that or dark charcoal gray.

52:44

And you can either get it with pinstripes or without depending on what you like when you go in. If you go to Brooks Brothers in the summers, you can get both the gray suit and the blue suit for like fifteen hundred dollars, which is expensive, but they last for a long time and they tailor it for you, which is nice.

52:59

So those two and then first like sport coats for dinners and stuff, I would get like unless you just really want to splurge,

53:06

I would get like two or three kind of fun sport coats to wear. So like I have a gold silk one that I like and a green madras one that I like.

53:14

And those are fine because you don't really end up using them overly frequently or you can just use the blue blazer and wear that as much as you need to.

53:21

So probably the two business suits, the blazer, two sport coats, and then if you live somewhere cold,

53:28

I would get two tweed suits. So my wife got into this whole skin tone thing and what colors match your skin tone, which

53:37

I've never heard of until she started getting into it. And she tells me I'm blue and gray.

53:44

Right. So it's certain shades of blue and gray, but it's like that's so I wouldn't look good in a brown suit.

53:50

In other words, even though my hair is brown, I look good in blue and gray because of my skin tone.

53:56

So I listen to her. Obviously, she's my wife. But I mean, have you ever heard of that? Do you recommend getting those tests?

54:03

That's a thing. Some people do it. I if you wear eccentric colors, it's something you need to worry about.

54:11

So if you're thinking about getting like a jacket that's pink or something like that, like first, probably don't second, like that's where you check your eye color, your skin color, your hair color and make sure it matches.

54:24

But pretty much everyone, at least if you're like a white European, the muted colors that are typical for traditional clothing will always work fine.

54:34

So you'll always be able to wear a blue suit. You'll always be able to wear a gray jacket and you'll always be able to wear like the country look of the tweed.

54:42

Also, if you go into the store instead of ordering out online, the people who are putting it on will tell you if it looks horrific and you shouldn't get it.

54:49

So that's a reason to go somewhere like Brooks Brothers instead of just ordering online and having it tailored after you get it.

54:56

Yeah, because you can measure things. You can even order things tailored if you measure given the measurements. You don't know that, though.

55:02

If you know what you like and you know your sizes, it's great. For example, I'm of 42 small jacket more or less fits me perfectly.

55:12

Or so I know when I'm ordering, say, from Cordings, which is based in England, that I can just get that and it will fit me well.

55:19

So if you're like that, have someone measure you the first time, certainly. But after that, you can do it as you want. I would say don't do it if it's an eccentric jacket, because there's very much the possibility that it will look weird with just your skin tone and eye color.

55:31

But if it's like a gray jacket or something, you can go ahead and do that if you know it fits regionally.

55:38

Does this change at all? Do you I mean, are there slight things you do differently or like if you're out in the

55:45

West, do you do you have Western cut shirts? And I don't know, like they have the shoulder patches or the sorry, the elbow patches on the the the sport jackets.

55:57

And I mean, I think it's a different cut, to be honest with you. I think you wear cowboy boots in the

56:04

South or seersucker suits. There's I mean, how very much variation do you give the region? So you have to change it depending on the temperature, because if it's like hot, you don't want to be wearing a tweed suit.

56:14

If it's cold, you'll look ridiculous in like a silk jacket, generally at least. So, you know, you have to change it based on that.

56:21

And like you shouldn't wear seersucker in New York in the winter. I think the bigger thing to think about is that if you're pretty much anywhere like in the

56:32

American South or the West or the Midwest, the country look fits generally.

56:39

So cap toe boots, chinos, tattersall shirt and a gillet or a tweed jacket that works in the in like a town in Colorado, a town in Virginia or town in Tennessee.

56:52

So I think it's very versatile in that respect. You shouldn't wear country clothing into the city or city clothing in the country generally.

57:01

So, for example, the classic line is don't wear brown in the town, meaning if you have a job in the city, you should wear black leather shoes and belt.

57:08

That's not really enforced anymore, but it was a thing. And I think it's more relevant for formality.

57:14

So like wearing a pinstripe blue suit to a bar in like a small town in the

57:23

South, even if like it's somewhat a more formal place that would just look weird where it's not really quite right. You know, the like the sport coat or the tweed coat will probably look better and better in that situation.

57:33

On the other hand, if you're going to like a dinner at a country or a city club or something like that, that's typically where like the blues and grays make more sense and look better and the leathers that match them look better, too.

57:45

So I would just think about that. But I think regionally it's not really that big a deal. It's more about the urban versus country environment or the hot versus cold environment.

57:57

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I think when when when you're talking about sort of blending in, for lack of a better term, there's it's good manners because you're not an eyesore.

58:11

You're not trying to draw too much attention to yourself and you're exuding a graciousness that I am

58:17

I respect your customs and, you know, and you can probably you could be creative in that.

58:24

You could you can walk into a country bar and have many different kinds of boots on.

58:29

But, you know, you wouldn't walk in with polished shoes that you'd wear with a tuxedo.

58:36

So, yeah, that's I think that's the that's sort of the principle behind this. It sounds like practicality and graciousness.

58:44

Yeah, absolutely. Thinking about that, like people at least probably have a vague conception of the different tiers of dress.

58:51

So like polo, blazer, suit, black tie, white tie, if you ever wear it, you shouldn't go more than like one step above what most people will be wearing.

59:02

Generally, it's best to fit in. But if people are like especially casual, you shouldn't be more than one above. So like, you know, if you're at a place where most people are in T -shirts, it probably makes the most sense to wear a polo or a polo and a blazer.

59:12

If most people are wearing a polo, you can probably get away with wearing a blazer or like a casual sport coat, but you don't want to be wearing like a full suit or whatever.

59:21

So just it's something to think about. It's best to fit in as long as you can do so while looking nice.

59:27

If you feel the need to dress a little bit more formally, you shouldn't go more than one step above like tier wise.

59:33

I think when it comes to dating and courtship and all that, I think it's obvious for guys at least, right?

59:40

When a girl puts effort into how she looks, she's curled her hair or straightened her hair, whatever. I don't know.

59:45

She's done footwork into her hair and put on some makeup and puts on nice fitting clothing.

59:52

It's attractive to a man when they're in the dating market or whatever, and whether they are or not,

59:59

I guess it's beautiful. Whether it's attractive or not, it's a beautiful thing, and I think it does give girls an edge.

01:00:06

Would you say it's the same thing with guys? If they do what you're saying, if you're a guy and you're not standing out too much, obviously you're not a spectacle, but you are dressing that one cut above to just,

01:00:22

I reflect some character. I think that is attractive to women too, personally.

01:00:29

I think they notice that and that reflects how you probably live the rest of your life. It's orderly and maintained.

01:00:36

Right. For dating, there are a couple of things. One is if you have the money to splurge on a nice watch.

01:00:41

If you're in the dating market, the Rolex is the only one that makes sense because it's the only one that women recognize. So if you want to spend a bunch of money on a watch, buying it, it's a lot of money, unless the crypto market crashes, in which case they tend to get cheaper because people get liquidated.

01:00:55

But regardless, if you're going to spend a bunch of money on a watch and you're dating, that's the only one that makes sense because otherwise they won't care.

01:01:04

You can just wear a cheaper watch. But if you're going to spend a nice one, that's the one that makes sense if you're dating. The other thing is what you were saying, certainly correct, but women will notice if something's off.

01:01:14

For example, a classic problem most guys have is collar roll or collar gap, where when they're wearing the jacket, particularly if it's buttoned up, it doesn't fit quite right because either it's too big or too small, or there'll be a gap between the collar of your shirt and the collar of your jacket, which it looks terrible.

01:01:30

And that's the sort of thing that women will notice if they notice that you're wearing a jacket. So you want to make sure you're doing it correctly.

01:01:38

So spend the $20 to get it tailored, and you'll have better luck in that regard. Or if your leathers aren't matching or something, where it just looks kind of off, you can end up not getting people angry, but they'll notice, and it won't have the effect you want.

01:01:55

And grooming's part of this too, right? I mean, if you have a beard, you should keep it trimmed. If you shouldn't have hair that's just unkempt.

01:02:04

I kind of think, I don't know what you think about this, I don't really think guys should have long hair. I just don't think it's becoming of a guy generally.

01:02:12

I know there's guys who disagree with me on this. And what I mean by long hair is like,

01:02:19

I don't necessarily, I don't know, I don't mean like hair over your ears, right? That was like my dad's generation in the 60s.

01:02:24

You couldn't have hair over your ears. But I'm thinking like ponytails that go down half your back and stuff, and man buns and that kind of thing.

01:02:34

It's just, it kind of gives an androgynous feel to it. And it just doesn't seem becoming of a guy.

01:02:41

So for hair, the classic, so this is something you can see in paintings and pictures, which is fun.

01:02:47

If you ever see the different color stripe on people's collars back in the day, typically it was velvet.

01:02:53

And like if it's a tan or red jacket, it'll be green. Or if it's like a blue jacket, it'll be black, something like that.

01:03:00

That was a velvet thing they had sewn onto the collar because their hair was longer and they didn't bathe as much. It was greasy.

01:03:05

And so their hair would rub against that part of the jacket and they didn't want to ruin the whole jacket. So you can just take the velvet strips on and off as they get dirty and it's no problem.

01:03:15

It works fine. So that's why I like the classic fox hunting jacket has the bottle green thing on the like this part of the jacket.

01:03:23

So I think the rule is in addition to just looking well groomed generally, you can have hair that's that long, like coming down in the back where it kind of brushes up against the, that part of the jacket.

01:03:34

And hopefully your hair is not super greasy where it messes up your jacket anymore, but you don't want it longer than that. Like you don't want a ponytail.

01:03:39

You don't want a man bun or anything that looks ridiculous. If it like, if it looks okay and it's a little bit longer, that's, it's just that part of the jacket.

01:03:47

It's probably fine, but it shouldn't be longer than that. What about hats? Hats used to be universal.

01:03:52

People don't wear them anymore unless it's a ball cap. Yeah. You'll look like a loon if you wear a top hat around, you'll look like a creep if you wear a fedora.

01:04:00

I, um, so true. So I would just recommend against, unless like there are some wedding situations where people will rent a morning dress and top hats in the

01:04:12

South. Um, that's like a thing. So in that one rare circumstance, you can otherwise just avoid that.

01:04:18

Cowboy hats can be fun, but like, as you mentioned with like Musk wearing a cowboy hat and a blazer, it looks ridiculous.

01:04:25

So I don't wear like, don't wear a specific hat out of the circumstance for which it's intended.

01:04:30

Ball caps are the thing that like everyone wears now. I think that's stupid. Like if you're playing baseball, if you're golfing, you can wear a hat meant for that.

01:04:39

Or if you know, like if you work outside and you're doing something like that, it makes sense to keep the sun out of your eyes. You should wear a hat.

01:04:46

Um, but if you're like going on a date or, you know, going out with your wife, you shouldn't wear a hat inside.

01:04:52

And like, you just probably shouldn't wear a ball cap unless you're in a situation where that's appropriate because it's baseball or it's a sporting event or, you know, something.

01:05:02

The only situation where a hat different than that, it can be relevant is like a straw planner's hat. If you're somewhere at the, like where it's really hot, typically like the beach or somewhere where you want to keep the sun out of your eyes.

01:05:12

Um, but it's a little bit more formal. Like if you're wearing seersucker, you can get away with a planner hat, but you don't need it.

01:05:19

You can look ridiculous if you wear it out of context. So I would, I would generally shy away from hats unless you're fishing or whatever.

01:05:26

Well, the thing that it's always bothered me is in church. When I see guys who come in and it's ignorance, I think, but they'll wear a hat in church and it's like, that's yes.

01:05:35

Such a basic, you know, out of respect, you know, it was, it was at a church, a court building, a government building.

01:05:40

I don't know. There's like a few places you're never supposed to wear a hat, um, but generally indoors, right? In general, you should endorse generally, but it's especially egregious, you know, when you're in, um, uh, it's like a sacred place or so.

01:05:54

Yeah. Well, these are good rules or tips. They're not really rules. They're just good tips for guys.

01:06:00

And I, I've learned a lot actually, cause I am, this is not my wheelhouse at all. I've violated so many of the things you're talking about and, uh, or, or just laziness, right?

01:06:09

I've gotten up and I'm like, I don't want to comb my hair. I'm going to put on a ball cap. Yeah. And it's like, you know,

01:06:15

I'm not even outside, so I don't know. I don't do that as much anymore, but, um, but I think, no, that's good.

01:06:21

Any other, uh, things that you want to share that you think would be helpful for people for, for men who are trying to step it up?

01:06:28

Yeah. So one thing is make sure whatever you're wearing is clean. Yeah. Like, uh, you know, cause you'll see someone who, uh, you know, it's not like a laziness thing.

01:06:38

They just didn't notice, but like, there's a bunch of mud kicked onto their boots and they're like walking around. It's like, no, knock it off.

01:06:44

Or if you, if you spill coffee on your jacket or shirt, just take it to the dry cleaner and pay them the $20 to get it out.

01:06:50

Cause the coffee stain looks terrible. Um, when you buy a jacket, the sleeves in the back vent or vents,

01:06:56

I would recommend, um, oh, I forgot to mention this. When you're getting a jacket currently double vents are like in Vogue, which is where it has the two like, um, openings in the back, the center fold that's only temporarily unfold.

01:07:09

And it looks kind of weird, particularly if like the jacket isn't perfectly fit, just get a single vent jacket.

01:07:14

Um, it's a somewhat older look, but it's, it'll be back in style soon. And it always looks good.

01:07:20

Whereas out of place, a double vent looks terrible. Um, regardless when you get your jacket, whether it's single vent or double vent, it comes stitched up.

01:07:28

There'll be a little X stitching over the vents. People don't know that. And so they don't take them out.

01:07:35

Uh, you should take it out. Cause people notice, cause it like, it's a different color thread. It looks weird. You, those aren't for aesthetics.

01:07:42

You should take it out. So the vents function as event. Similarly on the sleeve, there'll be a little like tag with, it'll say like Brooks brothers or whatever.

01:07:49

That's just there for them having it in the store. Once you get the jacket, you take that off. So it's not there. Um, cause that's the sort of thing people will notice.

01:07:57

Um, the last thing is, uh, like in addition to making sure your jackets and shirts fit and all that, and like, don't look ridiculous.

01:08:04

I think often people don't want to like put in the effort just cause it like, it does take more time in the morning when you have to put on a suit and tie the tie and like do all this stuff.

01:08:11

But if you're, um, it came up in the context of our podcast that we were doing or under this Twitter space.

01:08:17

Cause when you're networking with people who notice, and most people who have money or power sources do notice these things cause they were kind of trained to, they appreciate you putting in the effort.

01:08:28

Like even if your jacket's a little bit off or whatever, like they'll, they'll appreciate you having put in the effort. And also the people around you in day -to -day life, even if they don't dress that way of laziness, generally will generally appreciate you putting in the effort.

01:08:40

Um, that doesn't mean be like materialistic about it. This is where like the Gucci t -shirt and all that retarded stuff just is no good.

01:08:48

So you don't want to be like that. But if you put in the effort to look nice, I, um, I think it does help in daily life with people liking you more.

01:08:55

Um, not like in a shallow way, but just when they know that you put in the effort to, um, not look slovenly around them.

01:09:02

I think people do like that and they'll take you a little bit more seriously. So I think it is worth it when you leave the house.

01:09:07

And one last thing that I need to be better at, but I thought about it lately is, uh, for the people you love the most, uh, sometimes we address the worst around them because we know they have to accept us no matter what.

01:09:18

And, uh, especially husbands and wives. And obviously if you're sleeping in the same bed and stuff, you're not, you know, you're not always going to be, you don't have a suit on, but, uh,

01:09:29

I, I do think it says something when one of the first things you do in the morning is you get dressed and you don't walk around in your underpants or your pajamas till two in the afternoon.

01:09:43

Or maybe all, some of the, some people it's like their day off, they'll do it all day. Well, I mean, it kind of says like,

01:09:49

I, I, I dress up to go out. Um, and cause those people

01:09:54

I care about, but I don't want to be legalistic about this, but like, you know, just try to look good for your spouse,

01:09:59

I guess is what I'm trying to say. And, um, and, and, uh, without getting into detail, you, you may be rewarded for that.

01:10:05

So, uh, I will leave it there, but, um, no, I, I really appreciate this. Well, I think this is helpful stuff.

01:10:12

Not, I don't know if a lot of people are talking about this, at least not in my circles. And it needs to be, cause I think it's, it is part of not just American identity or male identity.

01:10:23

Uh, it's part of virtue. It's part of how we present ourselves to the world reflects what we think of them.

01:10:32

Do we, you know, love God, love your neighbor. Like, do we love the people around us? I think how, how we dress does something about that.

01:10:39

So definitely, and you know, if you need an ideological reason, a lot of Western American decline came alongside increasing casualness.

01:10:48

Um, so if you want to push back against that, you know, be the change you want to see in the world, dressing nice in a way that's not just bending to the managerial elite is a very easy and good way to do it,

01:10:58

I think. So, you know, be the change. All right. The American tribune .news

01:11:03

and the old world podcast. You can go find Will Tanner there. And if you want to know anything about Rhodesia, I think

01:11:09

Will Tanner is probably the leading expert in the world right now, you know, and South Africa. So anyway, thank you,