Critical Theory in the Church, the “Transient Text,” and Open Phones

Greetings and welcome to the dividing line whatever day it is Had a long day of travel yesterday it it was

Loved the folks up in Buffalo, but there is nothing to do at that airport. It's just And there's a little bit more to do at the

Philly Airport, but not much I mean airports just really aren't designed for Long hours of just sitting around Doing almost nothing.

But anyway, we we got home in one piece and my bag got home with me, too Which is I really was surprised by that But we're here and that's why we're doing a program today and then we're doing a program on Monday That's what

I was thinking when I tweeted what I did a little while ago and I said it was Monday We're gonna be doing a program on Monday.

So in other words totally unusual days and then because I'll be driving Tuesday and I know

Thursday is gonna be ugly probably gonna maybe do a Friday one next week. We'll see

But anyway just got back from upstate, New York. Some of you saw some of the pictures

We were shooting some material We didn't want to talk too much about it because we wanted to get into some places without necessarily being recognized

But the weather kept us from doing some of the things we wanted to do We got soaked but I did get a really great shot

I'll mention this I told Jeff I was up there with Jeff and Luke and Carmen from Apologia and we were shooting stuff for a documentary on Mormonism Which will continue gathering stuff for in just a couple months.

We go up to Salt Lake for the general conference. Hopefully a debate too and anyway,

I Was reviewing stuff on the subject of the first vision and things like that because we went to the what's called the sacred grove and The sacred grove is a footpath through trees

Stall it is I did see a bunch of Mormons and they were they were I They were putting their cameras like down toward the ground and shooting up through the through the leaves you know sort of get the the light coming down on you from above type effect type thing and but man

Was that a reminder of how ugly humidity is Something we do not live with here in in the valley.

It may be a hundred and six today But it's it's dry as a bone. And so it just it's it's it's lovely, but it was like 90 and the humidity

We walked out of that and we were in shade Walked out of that just wanted to die. I mean got in the

SUV We're sitting there in front of the air conditioning vents, you know, just going I'm trying to try to try to dry off.

Oh, yeah, it's horrible. I Feel sorry for you folks back there you you see our numbers and go it's so hot out there, but it's

Yeah, come August, yeah, we we sort of get it for a while but little anyway, so we were back there and we

I Got a picture of Jeff. I told him that he needed to Lean up against the mantle over the fireplace in the

Joseph Smith home and I got a picture of it didn't turn out real well because there's a light right there and it sort of focused on the light and it's sort of dark, but anyway,

I got it and Because in Joseph Smith's history When he came home after the first vision his mother asked him if he was okay, and he leaned up against that mantle over the fireplace and he said

I'm I'm well enough, but I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true

So I thought it was somewhat ironic to have a picture of Jeff leaning up against that given the same thing anyway

It was funny so yeah, we did some stuff there and Then we went over We're in Palmyra where the

Book of Mormon was originally published ran into a bunch of Christians there had chats with them shot some stuff with the location of the of the first publication of Book of Mormon in the background and and stuff like that visited the

Hill Cumorah, which is It's just a bump. It should be the bump Cumorah is what that's what it should be called the bump

Cumorah But when you're Joseph Smith, it's the Hill Cumorah and entire armies,

I mean the the The forest is still still so thick there.

You couldn't even had a decent Civil War battle there Let alone what

Joseph Smith describes as horses and chariots and swords and all the rest that stuff. It's just pure pure fiction but it was interesting to Visit the home and think of Joseph entertaining the family for hours at night with tales of the ancient inhabitants of the of the of the

Americas even before he allegedly received the golden plates So anyway, we did some stuff on on Mormonism while we were there

And of course, I was in Colorado before that and heading back in a few days to Colorado.

We've got a bunch of stuff I've started mentioning some of the things I don't have all the details. Did we put up the stuff I sent you?

Because I sent you a text with the stuff on Redemption Hills Yeah, I sent you

I sent you that text that has all the information on that but I'll be speaking

Well this Sunday I'm speaking to Paula Gia and then next Sunday, I'll be at Redemption Hills The Sunday after that,

I'll be at a Reformed Baptist Church in Colorado Springs that Friday Jason Lyle has posted something about that Friday the

Evangelism seminar. I just want to make sure people understand Jason's gonna be doing most that I'm the first speaker

I speak first and then I leave at like 510 530 something like that think 510

And I leave I mean, I'll literally have to be running to my car Because I have to get all the way back up to Copper Mountain Which is almost a three -hour drive on the other side of the state and So I'm not to be able to hang around.

I wish I could it'd be very enjoyable but I will be coming back that Sunday morning and preaching at the same church and I need to remember to send them whatever text

I'm gonna be preaching on And then on the previous Wednesday, I'll be in Boulder at South Boulder Bible Church two sessions

There as well so to be doing some speaking and stuff while I'm up there in Colorado and Redemption Hills is around Littleton as I recall.

It's in Denver area and So we'll be we'll be busy while we are while we are up there definitely

Okay before we open the phones a couple quick items John Harris worldview convos in Twitter Posted some material this morning and there was one brief

Story that that struck me too and it's a because it starts off one story that struck me

Was from a Southern Baptist Church plant in North Carolina a couple who helped start the church

Was called upon By their newly hired pastor who was a recent graduate of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary To apologize to another couple who had started coming to the church

Why did they have to apologize? Because they had the same last name as the other couple who happened to be of a different skin color

They were told to repent of their past sins of slavery

So obviously the new couple was black They were told to repent of their past sins of slavery because they quote might end quote

Have had ancestral slave owners who quote might end quote have owned the other couple's family in the past They were told that if they didn't repent

They had to leave the church because they would be unrepentant of Racism since this incident took place a once healthy church plant has disintegrated

Which you would expect Now I I don't even know how to respond start responding to something like this other than to say if this is what we've come to I suppose on one side

The the lines will be drawn clearly and the people who believe this stuff will be marked out very clearly

Because people with just plain old common sense will not be able to remain in churches with them

You want divisive you you want something that is? so fundamentally contrary to the gospel

Can you imagine can you seriously imagine? walking into any of the churches founded by the

Apostles and Asking what someone's name is discovering that they are of an ethnic group the 200 years earlier somewhere in Asia Minor had been involved in warfare with another

Ethnicity had enslaved some of them and therefore since there's people of that Don't know can't trace anything

But since you might your ancestors might have done something to these people's ancestors, then you need to apologize to them

To be a part of this church Can you imagine the Apostles doing that the reason the

Apostles did not do that and would never do that is because of this thing Called the gospel and we're right back to where we started over a year ago at the

MLK 50 thing going to Colossians 3 going to Ephesians and saying What's the basis of our unity and since it's the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, which wipes all of that out?

This idea of telling someone that they should apologize to someone else For what their ancestors might have done

How do you know that that black couple did not have ancestors that also owned slaves because there were black slaveholders

I've heard I haven't been able to verify this. I've heard that Kamala Harris has ancestors who were

Jamaican ancestors who held black slaves So once we buy into this once you buy into this we've got to go back and You've got to apologize for what might have happened at some time in the past without any evidence

We have demonstrated we don't believe in the forgiveness of sins. We don't believe in redemption

We don't believe in imputed righteousness. We don't believe in the very foundation of the unity of the body of Christ and There is no end to this

There is no end to it. It is constant recrimination. It's constant outrage.

It's constant offense and it's constant division It's all it is. I'm just Apologize because but based on last names

Huh? I I You read stuff like this and you just go how is this happening?

How is this happening? I I can't I don't know.

I don't know Um No people that's not a rainbow.

Is that a Colorado pride shirt you're wearing for the dividing line? Okay You know, it's it's funny

Ten years ago, maybe 15 years ago if you had worn something like this. No one would even thought about that, you know but now

Anything that has I guess I guess all my coogies are now a pride coogies and and everything else, right?

You're sort of liking that idea, aren't you? I can tell you you're you're you're so anti cougar fide

I May have to mute somebody there. Anyway, all right, let's let's Shift shift gears here.

Oh, that was that was not wise. Let me see here I'll just do the kick for now.

We'll do them. We'll do a band later on anyway A couple other things real quick yeah,

I saw that the quote -unquote documentary back to the

Greek has been posted by Steven Anderson, I mean

When you think about all the stuff that we're facing and all the challenges we have coming our direction lot the loss of loss of liberty and freedom and The division in the church and and people coming into the church teaching

Just amazing things that are fundamentally contrary to the gospel the fact that you would even have to spend a few moments on Something as inane as hey, you know we need to adopt modern pronunciation of Koine Greek and use it to witness to Greek speaking people and We need to tell everybody in the seminaries this

I just I Don't even don't even know what to say

We mentioned on the last program this Documentary with Steven Anderson and the involvement of some ostensibly

Reformed Baptist folks You'll notice I didn't focus on the textual thing really in that discussion my my question was how in the world

Can anyone who understands the gospel in a Reformed context which includes the

Lordship of Christ and repentance from sin cooperate with and evangelize with someone who detests the

Lordship of Christ and Repentance from sin as a part of the gospel call itself.

That would be Steven Anderson and It was when I realized in our interview years ago that that's where he was coming from I just pulled the plug on so that that's enough where this is this is just ridiculous but One of the

Reformed Baptist guys had said we we saw 24 people led to the Lord by the TR only so if you had used

So I don't get it if you use a different pronunciation So it's it's a pronunciation that makes it powerful or something or is it the

TR only that makes it powerful I'm not getting any of this. Obviously if you want to reach

Greek -speaking people there. They're not a large people group any longer The days of Alexander are long gone and so there are a couple nations

Cyprus Greece Maybe a few of the islands around there that you'll find Greek -speaking people the vast majority of them speak

English But And in that context you'll want to use a pronunciation that they'll understand

I guess if that's what you want to do What does any of that have to do with anything?

I? mean logically speaking When you're when you're preaching from Colossians chapter 2

Are you somehow is there some type of spiritual advantage to being able to use modern

Greek pronunciation rather than than Erasmian So if I say

Hattie and a token to a guy by Ponte play moment a say at a toss symmetrical and if I don't do that in modern

Greek, does that change the meaning of The fact that Colossians 2 9 says for in him is dwelling all the fullness of deity and bodily form

Does that change for example the fact that the King James translation there is inferior to almost all modern translations

That the term Godhead there is not clear and the King James was inconsistent in its translation of theot and theot roots

That's just a fact How you pronounce it is irrelevant to any of that.

I Gnosticism and Stephen Anderson is the new Greek Gnostic prophet What is what does any of this have to do with if If a man cannot read the

New Testament with enough understanding to recognize the centrality of repentance to the gospel What does all the rest is have do with anything?

I don't get any of it. I really really don't It just seems like a massive waste of storage space on YouTube To put this kind of stuff up there

So I've heard some of these guys and not just Stephen Anderson bemoaning the level of Greek proficiency taught in seminaries

Well, hey Where have we heard that before? I have for at least two decades now been pointing out the fact that In seminary there has been a tremendous

Diminishment upon the languages in favor of church leadership

Evangelism strategies financial strategies Entertainment basically

And I've told the stories of How Some of these seminaries have adopted what most seminaries have simply dropped

Requirements for biblical languages those that continue to print pretend that they have them Many of them have adopted a situation where you can you can literally qualify for your for your your biblical language requirements in a

Jan term class and What that makes it is a biblical tools class you know you you study logos or accordance or something you figure out how to use it and now you

You're good I've been bemoaning this for a long time. I've told the story of having 15 weeks 15 three -hour sessions to bring people through both

Introductory texts in Greek and Hebrew and How that form knowing that for most of them, that's all they're gonna get

I've been bemoaning that for a long time, but how you pronounce it is irrelevant to that Absolutely 1 ,000 % irrelevant it makes no difference now

If if what they're saying is well, I think I think seminary students should spend more time reading

Homeric Greek or reading the Greek Septuagint is like hey, I think it'd be wonderful to read the

Greek Septuagint I just I had I Bought those I highly recommend.

They're very nicely done the Hendrickson two -volume Greek Septuagint reader thing. That's great but That's not going to change the fact

That New Testament exegesis is not dependent upon your pronunciation and it's primarily dependent upon your knowledge of grammar and syntax the context and the size of your vocabulary and That vocabulary it doesn't matter how you pronounce the out a toss if you don't know what it means

So, I don't I don't get any of it and Yeah, I know it's out there. I don't have time for it right now.

I I Mean that is so low on the priority list. It's not even funny We are right now talking with folks in South Africa, it looks like could have as many as three

Debates in South Africa. I mentioned last time if you can help us get there. It's expensive trip

The travel fund a link is available on our website under the support me Section if you can help us to get there, we're looking at debates two debates on Islam and One debate

Lord willing there's there's pressure. Please pray that it happens

You know how this works, you know how if we were trying to do this the United States what would happen? but we want to be doing a debate with on the subject of The nature of marriage because South Africa has had the profaning of marriage longer than we have and so Please pray that happens.

We could have three debates there. There's at least two in November So we've got a lot of stuff coming on that's so much more important Than any of this silly stuff that that's why it doesn't really rate too high in a related but not directly related

Development Robert true love posted As a preview

The preface to a booklet or book. I'm not sure what he referred to it as that He is right has written or is writing and it's called the transient text the canonical crisis of The modern

Bible movement and so, you know that there's going to be this Conference right around the time that I'll be doing a debate in Atlanta with a

Muslim and This it's only two pages that's that's why

I I Want to take a look at it I Understand the appeal of this

But I want again Especially our listeners to understand where the problem lies

It talks about the fact that in 2016 crossway Had announced that it was going to basically basically what they announced is they were going to shut down their translation committee and they were going to put out the final version of The ESV and that was gonna be it

And Then very very briefly after that about 19 days,

I believe after that There was the they had called it the permanent text edition

But just few days later. They reversed their decision and said in a statement on crossways website

They said that their goal is now not to establish a permanent text But rather to allow for ongoing periodic updating of the text reflect the realities of biblical scholarship

Such as textual discoveries or changes in English over time Then he says when we look at the history of the

English Bible since the late 19th century we see a sharp break With how the Bible was viewed in earlier church history the never -ending series of revisions as part of this departure and Bible publishers are committed to revising the text of your

Bible until the eschaton. Well, I don't think Bible publishers could care less the progress with you

Bible publishers and At this point we need to be specific Thomas Nelson crossway

Zondervan The the folks that own the the major translations

Lachman Foundation isn't a major Publishing house type thing, but they hold the

NASB They if they continue to have active translation committees then

What they're doing is they're keeping the translate they're either keeping the translation consistent with Updates in the

Nessie Olin or UBS text and Those updates are happening because of the current work on ECM the edition of critical mayor critical mayor

Which is supposed to be done by 2030 and So we've talked on this program a number of times before about what happened with the

ESV at Jude 5 because of the text Change in the

Nessie Olin text. And again when I say text change that simply means that What was in the textual apparatus as a note?

one of those readings was placed into the text itself and the Text main text reading which had been the 27th edition was put into the note.

So there are Hundreds and hundreds of textual notes and UBS thousands in Nessie Olin and What the

ESV did was follow the Editorial decision it doesn't mean, you know, you know people get the idea that well that means the this committee is

Deciding they didn't like what was said here. No in that instance. It was simply the ECM Has Jesus in Jude 5 rather than Lord?

The Nessie Olin followed that and so the ESV consistently followed the next edition of the

Nessie Olin that came out That's all there was to it we had known about the variant that said

Jesus for centuries and centuries and centuries It's not like someone's just deciding to change things willy -nilly the issue is what has the best pedigree and CBGM had been utilized and to demonstrate that the manuscripts to say

Jesus at Jude 5 Are more genealogically coherent with one another in their reading

Then the manuscripts that say Lord So anyways if there are still current translation committees that are sitting and active

Then they have to make decisions concerning Numerous issues now that can be positive and can be negative one of the negative

Aspects of that is the possibility that a committee that has control over a conservative good

Translation can be influenced by societal movements, especially in regards to gender pronouns and things like that That's the reality of having

English Bible translations and Obviously though there were numerous English Bible translations in the 16th century 17th century as well

Not nearly as many as we have today nor could there have been Just simply the market would not would not be able to sustain anything like that.

I mean just economically printing wise All that kind of stuff that just simply wouldn't have been a possibility but there were multiple translations and To come up with a new translation did not necessarily mean you were saying that all of the translations were bad or anything else

There were just Reasons for producing such translations. I've said we have more than enough don't need any in English put all that money towards something else

So it's not so much Bible publishers The issue is

New Testament scholars Continue to analyze manuscripts and now with CBGM There will be we are in the middle of a revolution.

I've said this numerous times I think that's one of the reasons though to be honest with you. I have not yet seen any

Real meaningful interaction from the traditionalists with CBGM And with the methodology itself,

I Don't know of any of them that actually have any proficiency in an understanding of how

CBGM works so But we are in the midst of a revolution and There are going to be big news stories over the next couple of years because Gospels of Mark and John Will be published in the

ECM ECM over the next couple of years and I don't expect major changes, but for example

Variations in the Gospels carry more weight. Most people had never even heard of the Jude 5 variant and Almost anything that was changed in Acts was just so minor that It's all flown under the radar

Once you start doing stuff in the Gospels all of a sudden it's gonna hit and everybody's gonna be going. What is

CBGM? What is this all about? and it's Given how often

CBGM is misrepresented even by scholars today. It's gonna be ugly for a while anyway

Scholars continue to do this type of analysis and At least through 2030 that kind of information is going to continue to come out.

Well, you can ignore it The enemies of the faith won't ignore it so we can't but some people will and It's just easier for people to say

I don't want to have to think about all that stuff I just just just give me my Bible. I want to think about all that stuff That Sounds very pious.

There's only one problem Anyone who has read church history knows that every single generation of Christians in the past has had to deal with this issue

There's lots of discussion in the patristic sources about variants and things like that The problem is they didn't have nearly the amount of information that we have.

Well, they can tell us well We've seen manuscripts like this, but we can actually document we can say here's the manuscript.

Here's a picture Here's a high -quality digital picture of this manuscript We can provide that and it's the first time in history that we've been able to do that No one in the past has been able to do that.

That's that's just the way it is so It's not this idea that We just want to keep changing the

Bible until the eschaton but the serious commitment

To knowing what was written by the Apostles Does require us?

to take a different perspective than those that would say We just simply established this particular text.

Here's our theological reasons for doing so and So we're just not gonna worry about all the rest of this type of stuff I have said before I don't believe that perspective can be taken out into apologetics but anyway, so last

Last two paragraphs here the Bible as the unchanging Word of God has been replaced With what is now a transient text.

Well, see I I don't believe that type of assertion could survive debate

Because I can go to the second century and And show you discussions of textual variation

Justin Martyr arguing with the Jews saying they've changed things and Justin Martyr wasn't right in all instances in what he said

Second third century filled with discussions of the textual history

So to pretend that this is some new thing Is just historically untenable

It could not survive cross -examination It is not like well up to this point this wasn't even the perspective of Erasmus or Beza You can't read their writings especially when it comes to their treatment of the

Greek text and How often they they left it to the reader? Ah could be this could be that Leave it to you

That's that's not unchanging Word of God position that is being assumed here because the

There's a vast difference between the concept of the fact that God has preserved his word and that it's not being edited and changed we agree with that and Then the practical application of actually producing a text

It's one thing to say yes in the manuscripts. God has preserved his word

It's another thing to say and now give us that in exact Forms that we can produce translations and all the different languages of man that we want to produce it in On the one hand you can theologically make grand statements

But your grants if your grand statements cannot produce a New Testament They're not they're just grand statements

Along With the loss of the Bible as an unchanging standard now,

I I really think a lot of folks actually do believe the assertion That having textual critical notes in your

Greek New Testament means that the Bible has been lost as an unchanging standard which would mean you can't have any of the notes that that indicate the differences between the various TRS or Even the errors that Erasmus or Beza made or the the places where in the

Stephanos text Stephanos puts The beta in and that's

Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis the living Bible of the of the New Testament Church You have to ignore all that stuff

When when Stephanos put the variant readings in the 1550 Did that result in the loss the

Bible is an unchanging standard? No, I didn't then it doesn't today if we're consistent if we're consistent

Along with the loss the Bible is an unchanging standard a number of biblical Commitments that were sacrosanct until the modern era are now becoming virtually lost to us

It is my concern that this is leading to a canonical crisis This booklet is about why this is happening its negative consequences and what it's going to take to make it stop.

Well we will obviously be looking forward to the Publication of that because I have said more than once I believe applying standards of consistency will

Demonstrate that this form of argumentation Cannot survive cross -examination. I just can't can't 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number

You can call today. That is a toll -free number for those of you who? You know,

I was watching in the USA, yeah, I was watching I love when all these memes pop up on Facebook That show the old rotary dial phones which of course

I grew up with I Remember the first fancy -dancy beep beep beep touchtone. Yeah touchtone.

That was that was fun, but My first phones didn't have that and yes, you could

Mess that up quite easily you would think it'd be pretty simple But it's so much fun to watch the videos of teenagers today trying to figure out a rotary phone it's

Probably not fair And it's sort of like us some of us old folks trying to figure out some modern gadget, they just come out with but it's sort of funny to watch and it would take a while to dial because Because they're the the bigger the number was like like if you dialed a nine

That would take a while. So like those remember those old Radio contests where you had to dial in or something like that if you had a rotary phone you were doomed you

That was fun that was now I'm not old enough to remember when you pick it up and get an operator and dial you know

Carbondale 6 1 2 or something like that, but There are still folks a few folks running around that are in that situation

But I ain't one of them, but I do remember the rotaries. They were they were lots of fun. Oh Okay, well the phone calls they be a coming in All right, let's

Talk to Anna. Hi Anna Hi, dr. White. Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Mm -hmm okay, so my question is about blasphemy the Holy Spirit and so kind of where this is coming from is kind of like in the

Pentecostal churches like Bethel Church and like Benny Hinn and stuff You see like the holy laughter the shaking the convulsing and that's something you see a lot

It's like the occult from like the Kundalini spirit and the Hindu and stuff like that So I guess my question is kind of like are these manifestations that you see in these churches

Demonic imitation of occult or like did the occult like you think Satan Stole that from the

Holy Spirit and is now like manifesting that into the occult. And then so like is attributing like these acts that you see like Benny Hinn and like that's all these things and calling it demonic if That's from the

Holy Spirit then it's like in my borderline like blaspheming the Holy Spirit well, you know when

I saw the the title of the question The the New Testament teaching on the subject of the blasphemy of the

Holy Spirit Jesus identifies as as the unpardonable sin to blaspheme the

Holy Spirit and That has a specific context that was in regards to the

Jews who had the Word of God and they had great light and yet in spite of that they attributed to Beelzebub the the

Prince of Demons the actions that Jesus undertook as the Son of God by the power of the

Holy Spirit and this was described as being unforgivable because of the fact that it is the

Holy Spirit who brings conviction of sin and so if you understand the the actions and power of the of the

Holy Spirit of God to be that of Satan then you are putting yourself outside of the very mechanism whereby you would be granted repentance and brought to repentance anyways that's what makes the unpardonable sin unpardonable is because it's unpardonable that is it

Demonstrates a person who has so shut their eyes to the light and loves the darkness that they will

Have cut themselves off from the convicting power of the Holy Spirit of God By that by that commitment that can only be done by someone who has a tremendous amount of light and Sins against that and that's not really

I think what you're asking What you're asking is more along the lines of When the

New Testament tells us To test all things and yet at the same time, for example, the

Corinthians are told not to forbid speaking in tongues, for example Now we can contextualize that we can point out that there's a purpose for speaking in tongues and that purpose was fulfilled at a certain point in time in history and therefore that's not relevant, but We at the same time see

Manifestations The the coat throw the coat spin that Benny Hinn uses where he takes his

Armani jacket and Knocks over the first few rows of the audience this type of thing and the question becomes

Which is this is this demonic or is this? some kind of trickery that that involves group hallucination or group manipulation and people expecting something to happen and then it does so on so forth well

You don't necessarily have to divide those equally apart from one another

Anything that will lead a person to Non dealing with their sin not dealing with the call of discipleship, whatever else it might be is demonic and demonic doesn't have to The demons are not precluded from using

Psychological aspects of things to accomplish their purposes and so it doesn't have to be all of one or all of the other it can

Be a mixture Depending upon the individual that you're talking to and things like that and then the question becomes yeah but if you say anything that is a spiritual manifestation that might be of the

Holy Spirit is Not then are you blaspheming the Holy Spirit? And I don't think that that's

Anywhere used in the New Testament in that way Again the the specific context in which blasphemy the

Holy Spirit is mentioned Was specifically people with tremendous light in the presence of the very

Son of God identifying his power is that of Satan and We're not dealing with that kind of a kind of a context today

So I think that kind of an application would be would be excessive At the same time

I have seen people Who and and it it I think reformed or even?

Fundamentalist types of folks are Subject to this kind of thing where you see something that is different from your experience and define

The parameters of what the Spirit of God could do Based upon what you have seen him do or at least you have thought that you saw him do your understanding?

Becomes the the parameters and I've seen people And I fully understand the mindset that just automatically

Dismisses anything if it's different from what my experience has been so we have to be very very careful

That we do not Make our experiences the standard by which we determine these things and so there needs to be a balance

It needs to be a mature balance. It needs to be a balance that is derived from consistent

Exegesis of the text the Word of God and an application to the things that are happening in our in in the church and in our culture today and unfortunately

Consistent balanced reasoning is not going to sell you a lot of books or make you overly popular

So it's not as prevalent as it as it should be but that's that's what that's what we definitely would need in especially in these days

When we have warnings about those who will use false doctrine to tickle ears and lead people astray

We have warning after warning after warning after warning of super apostles and all sorts of stuff like that One side tends to take that To one extreme and say it said and you know, some people go to the point of saying the

Holy Spirit's not doing anything at all And then we know what the other extreme is because they own television stations

I do have one question kind of stemming off from that. So and okay, so like would you say that like for example when like Steven Anderson and that group like Says like the work of like Charles Spurgeon and you and all that stuff is like demonic.

Are they blaspheming the Holy Spirit? No, you're just being stupid. I Mean I mean

I would I would I think Jesus Was very serious when he spoke of the blasphemy the

Holy Spirit I can't give Steven Anderson that much credit for being serious So The the scribes of Pharisees had tremendous light

Steven Anderson does not I? Mean, yeah, he's got great exposure to the Bible, but but it's very very narrow and and and very

Limited as far as that's concerned. So Yeah, when all it's

Steven Anderson is doing when he identifies Charles Spurgeon's teaching as as demonic is just Demonstrating how shallow his thinking is on things and how tradition bound he is but again,

I I'm not gonna You know I'll leave I'll leave the determination of who has committed that sin to the

Spirit of God and to the judge of all men the resurrected Son of God, I I would just point out that that's fallacious and silly and direct people the

Word of God and go from there Okay. Okay. Thanks Anna All right. Thank you.

Bye. Bye All right, eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

Let me see here. Let's talk to Nathan hi Nathan Hi, dr.

White, how are you doing? So I my question is regarding acts 20 verse 7

To give you a little background I have a friend who got caught up in the Hebrew roots movement and I was trying to give him a defense of Sunday Lord's Day worship from Scripture.

So I went to John 20 26 acts 27 1st Corinthians 16 2 and so on and he shot back at me and he said that acts 20 verse 7 is translated wrong because When it says first day of the week, he said a day is not in the

Greek there The word Hemera. He said it is Mia's own Sabbath tone He said it should read one of the

Sabbath and then he showed me that Sindale 1526 actually read

On a Sabbath and so he said that all our English Bibles are translated incorrectly

So I just wanted and I bet you and I and I bet you if you took him to acts 20 verse 8 He couldn't read a single word out of his life depended on it.

Um It yeah, it does it does it does okay It does say and date say

Mia tone sabbatone But Mia Mia tone sabbatone means the first of the

Sabbath's. So in other words the first the week That's why they translate the first day of the week There are a lot you can always tell people who actually can't read

Greek Because they get tripped up by little things like this Because it's a part of their, you know, whatever

Thing they're trying to push crusade. They've got whatever it might be It's like when I when

I've encountered a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses who know Certain texts really really really well, but if you take them to the very next verse and ask them to read it

They can't make heads or tails out of it because they don't actually just sit there and read Greek And so they they they don't recognize that there are phrases in the

Greek language that you have to be to render into English in an understandable fashion and so the first of tone sabbatone

The Mia tone sabbatone. What what is that going to be? Well, that's that's the first after the

Sabbath So it's the first of the Sabbath week. And so what's that the first day of the week?

That's what that's that's how we would say it and that's why Modern Bible translations done by entire teams of scholars

That have spent years doing this and your friend hasn't and probably the people selling in books to Understand it and render it in a understandable fashion.

So yeah, there may have you know If you go back to some of the earliest translations

Maybe someone like Tyndale didn't have access to as wide a variety of external

Examples of the utilization of these things but The fact the matter is it's pretty it's pretty straightforward when they were gathered to to break bread

We know what the critic a Hemera is in in Revelation chapter 1 the Lord's Day That's right and shaded by the patristic utilization of those phrases.

And so yeah, there's always there's always some way, you know, if you want to The the

Scriptures Can be twisted in an infinite number of ways to the judgment of those who do so All right,

I'd fully agree. But then that's what I told him I just said I think it could be first from the Sabbath, which was

Sunday So they gathered on a Sunday and Paul they broke bread and Paul expounded the scriptures

So that was a Sunday gathering of Christians. Yep Um, you know and anyway, he preached too long and killed the poor kid

Well, I appreciate appreciate your thoughts on the matter and thank you and God bless

I think today then I got less of a didn't really mean to say it the Apostle preached too long and in that way, but Some people is gonna make a meme out of that.

All right, let's talk to Brent in Florida. Hi Brent I don't

James doing good Um, I could first of all, I called a few months ago about repentance and I really

I'm grateful for your response I really needed somebody to To kind of tell me to stop looking at myself so much and in a really nice way

You told me that and I'm very grateful for that Um, I have a question today

About I guess you I guess they call it the emergent church It's kind of like I call like the

American Church I'm in a church. I'm in a church now, and I really like the pastor.

I've gotten cool with them We sit down and talk about the scriptures all the time But we differ about this kind of I went one time they had like a youth gathering and I almost couldn't ever go back to the church because of it me and my wife walked in there and I mean there's fog machines

There's lights you would have thought like the greatest rock concert ever was happening in this building and I don't know how to really deal with that with myself because I do believe

God still writes music Through people like I don't believe that the hymns are the end all of all music for Christians, but at the same time

Sometimes I feel like I compromise in the way of like it's to me. It's so clearly the world's music and I Don't feel like it should be such a big deal.

But like I'm looking at like for example my wife And the only thing she knows about Christ other than what we talk about but in her own time is like a 21st century rock concert

Christian music Like I don't know if I take it too far or have you noticed this in church?

Maybe not yours, but like in have you dealt with this at all. I guess my question well This really doesn't have anything to do with what's called the emergent church, that's a specific movement with with specific parameters

Where basically everything is being re -examined from the Trinity through the gospel to Everything's everything.

There are a lot of quote -unquote red -letter Christians involved with this and stuff like that. So it's not It's not an emergent church thing specifically it's just that there is in the

United States an entertainment culture that has Has come up You know the church that I'm a pastor of now is a family integrated church.

So you don't have youth church You don't have a kids church. You don't divide any of that stuff up everybody's in the preaching the word and and so there's nothing like that, but There's no question that there is a tremendous amount of seeking to emulate the world seeking to Imitate and to draw and to attract based upon looking like the world

I Obviously see all of that and would agree with with all of that the the issue becomes

Look when I was when I was young the older generation thought that my music was terrible and I grew up listening well grew up in my teen years

I Discovered Keith Green and his music meant the world to me.

Well, my parents never liked Keith Green and Didn't like how long his hair was or whatever else it might be or the beat of the drums

Hey, I I worked at a radio station family life radio the same family life radio that exists today and I Remember clearly the type written on a typewriter not a computer.

I'm not back then the type written note above the board That said make sure not to play music that emphasizes a the the beat of the drums and That was in the late 1970s early 1980s well early 1980s and so You know, we can all look back and see how things have changed and we can lament some things

But not all change is necessarily a negative change either. And so the balance has to be found in Analyzing.

What's the motivation? Why what are we bringing these people here to do? Why do we have them separated out from more mature individuals?

What messages are we communicating to them? How much time are we spending entertaining versus actually giving a foundation to these individuals those those are the issues.

It's not so much the The style of music as it is what you're actually communicating

When the music is finished or why you're doing it the way you're doing it. There certainly has to be there must be modesty

There can't be gyration and dancing around and acting like the world in that way. But as far as the music itself goes

There were a couple of Keith Green songs that had quite a beat to them that had also an incredibly convicting message

And I could mention some modern bands that I listen to not all the time

Work out to them. It helps it helps keep the the legs turning when you're riding a bike, I guess

But they've got they've got a good message and then there are others you listen to the message and it's just it's a it's an inch deep

It's real easy for us to become extremely judgmental as if everybody needs to you know match up to my

Standards as to what I like But at the same time there there has to be real discernment when you ask the question.

What are we doing? What is going on here? Are we raising a generation that has no concept of sitting and seriously engaging with the

Word of God and being instructed from the Word of God and showing respect for the Word of God and and all these other issues that come along with it and so it's a

It's an area that you find very very strong opinions in but I would just emphasize that the the primary thing that needs to be looked at is our intentions and what the end result we're attempting to get to is if all we want are people in the seats and Numbers and getting people baptized 2 .74

times per person Then that's going to result in the very surface level

Christianity that is abandoned once somebody gets into college anyways All right

Somebody actually told me Don't you realize don't you realize that Charles Wesley's music was new at one point or you know?

Amazing Grace happened to be a new song at some point I'm sure a lot of people probably was saying that was the new stuff that they didn't want in their church and stuff

So I try to be not too dogmatic about it, but sometimes that I had to walk out of there I don't know.

It gives me a feeling of when I was when I lived unsafe. I don't know maybe yeah, I understand

I understand well if if it's specifically intending to appeal to that part of the carnal nature then there is then there is a problem, but We have to be

Have to be careful as to exactly where we we end up drawing that line. Hey, thanks, Brad. I appreciate the call all right

Yeah, all right get us better Alright, let's go to our last Caller here and talk with Cameron.

Hi Cameron Hi, Dr.. White. How you doing today doing good? Hey, I wanted to Ask you a question about say something.

I heard from a friend of mine. I've got say a mutual friend He's a minister in the SBC. I'm a deacon in the

PCA church in Charlotte, and he and I were talking about new education Venture of his he did his

M. Div at Southeastern, and he's currently pursuing a THM and when I asked what he was studying

He said that he was studying Romans and how sin influences racial relations

Now my friend is african -american I said he is a minister in an SBC Church, and he is conservative

Theologically It's my to what from what I understand you're fairly politically conservative as well for whatever.

That's worth I thought that was quite interesting. I had not heard that before and it gave me great pause to think about the fact that You know postgraduate education

Is happening in you know a quote -unquote moderate or conservative seminary?

Funded by the SBC that has a race at the very center of it. I want to get your thoughts on that well, so Anything else about this?

I'm confused so He he did his master's at Southeastern, but now he's doing a

THM there as well That's correct. Oh, okay, all right Well, yeah,

I'm not really sure why he's doing there as well I thought you would have gone someplace else But yeah, he's still at Southeastern doing his

THM and from what I understand when I asked him a few more probing questions Regarding the specifics of the study.

It sounded almost like he was looking into the first two and a half to three chapters of Romans to see how

Sin informs people in a different way with respect to their race, which again that may

I may be paraphrasing Exactly what he's doing, but it sounded quite alarming to be honest with you as someone who

Is a reformed Christian. I that was very troubling to hear that a seminary like Southeastern was having

THM studies Something like that. It seems very shallow and it just didn't seem right.

I wanted to see what your thoughts were on that Well, and if you've heard of anything else like that across the country well without without seeing what the resultant

Project says that the result is I can't it would be very unwise to make any comments about I just if it's based on the first three chapters of Romans the only distinction

That the first three chapters of Romans recognizes or deals with is the Jewish Gentile issue because you have chapter 1 and Then you have the

Jews in chapter 2 and then chapter 3 all the world So that whether Jew or Gentile every mouth is stopped every tongue is stilled and we're all put in the exact same place so that there's one gospel and That one gospel justifies

Jew and Gentile in the exact same way. There's nothing in the modern sense of race ethnicity

Anywhere in Romans at all Whether it's first three chapters or any place else

There's simply nothing there that could be mapped into a black white

Hispanic Asian in the United States or In South Africa or in Ukraine or in Russia or in Thailand or whatever else?

I mean there are there ethnic tensions in every one of those places, but they're all different ethnic tensions

And there's nothing in Romans That would bring any of that in outside of the reality

That you could make this argument the argument of Romans 1 through 3 is there is no ethnicity

There is no impact upon the doctrine of sin Jews and Gentiles all alike have fallen short of the glory of God and therefore are

Justified in exactly the same way. That's that's the only argument that you could derive

From the beginning of the book of Romans or anywhere else in Romans for that matter or the rest of New Testament so obviously in many seminaries today

What would happen? following after the footsteps of James Cone Would be the importation of incredibly foreign parameters and sources of information that would be caused to Be the filter through which the

New Testament words are read and then you can introduce all sorts of black white oppressed oppressor categories and and go from there, but any

Meaningful reading of Romans in its original context is going to defy anything like that at all.

So I don't know. Maybe that's what he's gonna come up with. I'd like to hope that that were the case

But until it's published or written or there's an abstract you can read or something like that. You can't you can't just predict exactly what it's going to be

Right, I completely agree with everything you've said. Unfortunately, I do think it's going to be modern forms of Racial talks as they're had in the

West right now and how that's going to be influenced in his reading of the text Yeah, yeah based on some other things

I've heard so I think unfortunately it's gonna be a fairly liberal result you and I would probably cringe at to read and see coming out of a

What used to be a fairly conservative seminary until? Until it's there. I can't you can't

You can't just expect the worst you have to hope for the best and and then when it comes out you can then deal with it from that perspective, but yeah,

I Can see how that Conclusion could be drawn, but I want to try to wait and see what actually happens

Right. Okay. Absolutely. All right. Thanks Cameron. Good deal. All right. Thank you. I said less. Bye -bye All right, well

Some good calls there, even though we had someone on on Twitter say I'd rather just have you talk.

But as you say Actually a lot of folks like to like to have the phone calls once in a while We don't do it all the time.

In fact, we don't do it the majority of the time if I think of weird Yes, variety variety is a good thing right is a good thing so Like I said the beginning next week

I'm sorry next month headed to South Africa. Please be praying for that because literally only a matter of days home after that before Salt Lake City Australia We really need help with the travel fund along those lines because those are major major trip right after Australia matter of days home

London Debates at least two maybe more they're coming back to Atlanta debate there

At least half a dozen debates before the end of the year. That's a tremendous amount of Preparation on my part, so please pray for my health not just that I don't fall off of a mountain over the next couple weeks because it is my time to be in in Colorado doing my extended studying and Climbing of mountains time.

That's I'm gonna keep trying to do that as long as this old body's gonna let me that's

Just just who I am and what makes me tick It's also when I get a lot of studying that a lot of reading done.

So Some people take what they call sabbaticals. I just go ride a bike for up insane mountains to 14 ,000 feet.

It's fun Anyways, you get some really great theological insights But there's half the oxygen

So maybe that has something to do that. Anyway, we got a lot coming up But what that means is

I will be driving next week on Tuesday and so The dividing line for next week will be on Monday and then once I'm up there then we'll need to figure out

What my how my schedule and riches will Interact and we'll figure out when to do a program from up there in in Colorado.

So Looking for Monday for a dividing line. We'll see you then. Thanks for watching.