Critical Theory in the Church, the “Transient Text,” and Open Phones

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:38

Greetings and welcome to the dividing line whatever day it is Had a long day of travel yesterday it it was

00:47

Loved the folks up in Buffalo, but there is nothing to do at that airport. It's just And there's a little bit more to do at the

00:56

Philly Airport, but not much I mean airports just really aren't designed for Long hours of just sitting around Doing almost nothing.

01:04

But anyway, we we got home in one piece and my bag got home with me, too Which is I really was surprised by that But we're here and that's why we're doing a program today and then we're doing a program on Monday That's what

01:16

I was thinking when I tweeted what I did a little while ago and I said it was Monday We're gonna be doing a program on Monday.

01:23

So in other words totally unusual days and then because I'll be driving Tuesday and I know

01:30

Thursday is gonna be ugly probably gonna maybe do a Friday one next week. We'll see

01:37

But anyway just got back from upstate, New York. Some of you saw some of the pictures

01:43

We were shooting some material We didn't want to talk too much about it because we wanted to get into some places without necessarily being recognized

01:51

But the weather kept us from doing some of the things we wanted to do We got soaked but I did get a really great shot

01:58

I'll mention this I told Jeff I was up there with Jeff and Luke and Carmen from Apologia and we were shooting stuff for a documentary on Mormonism Which will continue gathering stuff for in just a couple months.

02:13

We go up to Salt Lake for the general conference. Hopefully a debate too and anyway,

02:21

I Was reviewing stuff on the subject of the first vision and things like that because we went to the what's called the sacred grove and The sacred grove is a footpath through trees

02:33

Stall it is I did see a bunch of Mormons and they were they were I They were putting their cameras like down toward the ground and shooting up through the through the leaves you know sort of get the the light coming down on you from above type effect type thing and but man

02:51

Was that a reminder of how ugly humidity is Something we do not live with here in in the valley.

02:59

It may be a hundred and six today But it's it's dry as a bone. And so it just it's it's it's lovely, but it was like 90 and the humidity

03:10

We walked out of that and we were in shade Walked out of that just wanted to die. I mean got in the

03:15

SUV We're sitting there in front of the air conditioning vents, you know, just going I'm trying to try to try to dry off.

03:23

Oh, yeah, it's horrible. I Feel sorry for you folks back there you you see our numbers and go it's so hot out there, but it's

03:34

Yeah, come August, yeah, we we sort of get it for a while but little anyway, so we were back there and we

03:41

I Got a picture of Jeff. I told him that he needed to Lean up against the mantle over the fireplace in the

03:51

Joseph Smith home and I got a picture of it didn't turn out real well because there's a light right there and it sort of focused on the light and it's sort of dark, but anyway,

03:59

I got it and Because in Joseph Smith's history When he came home after the first vision his mother asked him if he was okay, and he leaned up against that mantle over the fireplace and he said

04:13

I'm I'm well enough, but I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true

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So I thought it was somewhat ironic to have a picture of Jeff leaning up against that given the same thing anyway

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It was funny so yeah, we did some stuff there and Then we went over We're in Palmyra where the

04:41

Book of Mormon was originally published ran into a bunch of Christians there had chats with them shot some stuff with the location of the of the first publication of Book of Mormon in the background and and stuff like that visited the

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Hill Cumorah, which is It's just a bump. It should be the bump Cumorah is what that's what it should be called the bump

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Cumorah But when you're Joseph Smith, it's the Hill Cumorah and entire armies,

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I mean the the The forest is still still so thick there.

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You couldn't even had a decent Civil War battle there Let alone what

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Joseph Smith describes as horses and chariots and swords and all the rest that stuff. It's just pure pure fiction but it was interesting to Visit the home and think of Joseph entertaining the family for hours at night with tales of the ancient inhabitants of the of the of the

05:41

Americas even before he allegedly received the golden plates So anyway, we did some stuff on on Mormonism while we were there

05:49

And of course, I was in Colorado before that and heading back in a few days to Colorado.

05:54

We've got a bunch of stuff I've started mentioning some of the things I don't have all the details. Did we put up the stuff I sent you?

06:01

Because I sent you a text with the stuff on Redemption Hills Yeah, I sent you

06:07

I sent you that text that has all the information on that but I'll be speaking

06:16

Well this Sunday I'm speaking to Paula Gia and then next Sunday, I'll be at Redemption Hills The Sunday after that,

06:24

I'll be at a Reformed Baptist Church in Colorado Springs that Friday Jason Lyle has posted something about that Friday the

06:36

Evangelism seminar. I just want to make sure people understand Jason's gonna be doing most that I'm the first speaker

06:41

I speak first and then I leave at like 510 530 something like that think 510

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And I leave I mean, I'll literally have to be running to my car Because I have to get all the way back up to Copper Mountain Which is almost a three -hour drive on the other side of the state and So I'm not to be able to hang around.

07:03

I wish I could it'd be very enjoyable but I will be coming back that Sunday morning and preaching at the same church and I need to remember to send them whatever text

07:13

I'm gonna be preaching on And then on the previous Wednesday, I'll be in Boulder at South Boulder Bible Church two sessions

07:21

There as well so to be doing some speaking and stuff while I'm up there in Colorado and Redemption Hills is around Littleton as I recall.

07:32

It's in Denver area and So we'll be we'll be busy while we are while we are up there definitely

07:41

Okay before we open the phones a couple quick items John Harris worldview convos in Twitter Posted some material this morning and there was one brief

07:57

Story that that struck me too and it's a because it starts off one story that struck me

08:03

Was from a Southern Baptist Church plant in North Carolina a couple who helped start the church

08:10

Was called upon By their newly hired pastor who was a recent graduate of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary To apologize to another couple who had started coming to the church

08:25

Why did they have to apologize? Because they had the same last name as the other couple who happened to be of a different skin color

08:35

They were told to repent of their past sins of slavery

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So obviously the new couple was black They were told to repent of their past sins of slavery because they quote might end quote

08:51

Have had ancestral slave owners who quote might end quote have owned the other couple's family in the past They were told that if they didn't repent

09:04

They had to leave the church because they would be unrepentant of Racism since this incident took place a once healthy church plant has disintegrated

09:18

Which you would expect Now I I don't even know how to respond start responding to something like this other than to say if this is what we've come to I suppose on one side

09:36

The the lines will be drawn clearly and the people who believe this stuff will be marked out very clearly

09:45

Because people with just plain old common sense will not be able to remain in churches with them

09:51

You want divisive you you want something that is? so fundamentally contrary to the gospel

10:01

Can you imagine can you seriously imagine? walking into any of the churches founded by the

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Apostles and Asking what someone's name is discovering that they are of an ethnic group the 200 years earlier somewhere in Asia Minor had been involved in warfare with another

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Ethnicity had enslaved some of them and therefore since there's people of that Don't know can't trace anything

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But since you might your ancestors might have done something to these people's ancestors, then you need to apologize to them

10:43

To be a part of this church Can you imagine the Apostles doing that the reason the

10:49

Apostles did not do that and would never do that is because of this thing Called the gospel and we're right back to where we started over a year ago at the

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MLK 50 thing going to Colossians 3 going to Ephesians and saying What's the basis of our unity and since it's the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, which wipes all of that out?

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This idea of telling someone that they should apologize to someone else For what their ancestors might have done

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How do you know that that black couple did not have ancestors that also owned slaves because there were black slaveholders

11:29

I've heard I haven't been able to verify this. I've heard that Kamala Harris has ancestors who were

11:36

Jamaican ancestors who held black slaves So once we buy into this once you buy into this we've got to go back and You've got to apologize for what might have happened at some time in the past without any evidence

11:56

We have demonstrated we don't believe in the forgiveness of sins. We don't believe in redemption

12:01

We don't believe in imputed righteousness. We don't believe in the very foundation of the unity of the body of Christ and There is no end to this

12:10

There is no end to it. It is constant recrimination. It's constant outrage.

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It's constant offense and it's constant division It's all it is. I'm just Apologize because but based on last names

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Huh? I I You read stuff like this and you just go how is this happening?

12:35

How is this happening? I I can't I don't know.

12:40

I don't know Um No people that's not a rainbow.

12:54

Is that a Colorado pride shirt you're wearing for the dividing line? Okay You know, it's it's funny

13:06

Ten years ago, maybe 15 years ago if you had worn something like this. No one would even thought about that, you know but now

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Anything that has I guess I guess all my coogies are now a pride coogies and and everything else, right?

13:22

You're sort of liking that idea, aren't you? I can tell you you're you're you're so anti cougar fide

13:30

I May have to mute somebody there. Anyway, all right, let's let's Shift shift gears here.

13:38

Oh, that was that was not wise. Let me see here I'll just do the kick for now.

13:46

We'll do them. We'll do a band later on anyway A couple other things real quick yeah,

13:55

I saw that the quote -unquote documentary back to the

14:03

Greek has been posted by Steven Anderson, I mean

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When you think about all the stuff that we're facing and all the challenges we have coming our direction lot the loss of loss of liberty and freedom and The division in the church and and people coming into the church teaching

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Just amazing things that are fundamentally contrary to the gospel the fact that you would even have to spend a few moments on Something as inane as hey, you know we need to adopt modern pronunciation of Koine Greek and use it to witness to Greek speaking people and We need to tell everybody in the seminaries this

14:56

I just I Don't even don't even know what to say

15:04

We mentioned on the last program this Documentary with Steven Anderson and the involvement of some ostensibly

15:11

Reformed Baptist folks You'll notice I didn't focus on the textual thing really in that discussion my my question was how in the world

15:21

Can anyone who understands the gospel in a Reformed context which includes the

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Lordship of Christ and repentance from sin cooperate with and evangelize with someone who detests the

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Lordship of Christ and Repentance from sin as a part of the gospel call itself.

15:44

That would be Steven Anderson and It was when I realized in our interview years ago that that's where he was coming from I just pulled the plug on so that that's enough where this is this is just ridiculous but One of the

15:59

Reformed Baptist guys had said we we saw 24 people led to the Lord by the TR only so if you had used

16:10

So I don't get it if you use a different pronunciation So it's it's a pronunciation that makes it powerful or something or is it the

16:20

TR only that makes it powerful I'm not getting any of this. Obviously if you want to reach

16:26

Greek -speaking people there. They're not a large people group any longer The days of Alexander are long gone and so there are a couple nations

16:36

Cyprus Greece Maybe a few of the islands around there that you'll find Greek -speaking people the vast majority of them speak

16:43

English But And in that context you'll want to use a pronunciation that they'll understand

16:51

I guess if that's what you want to do What does any of that have to do with anything?

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I? mean logically speaking When you're when you're preaching from Colossians chapter 2

17:08

Are you somehow is there some type of spiritual advantage to being able to use modern

17:16

Greek pronunciation rather than than Erasmian So if I say

17:24

Hattie and a token to a guy by Ponte play moment a say at a toss symmetrical and if I don't do that in modern

17:30

Greek, does that change the meaning of The fact that Colossians 2 9 says for in him is dwelling all the fullness of deity and bodily form

17:40

Does that change for example the fact that the King James translation there is inferior to almost all modern translations

17:47

That the term Godhead there is not clear and the King James was inconsistent in its translation of theot and theot roots

18:01

That's just a fact How you pronounce it is irrelevant to any of that.

18:09

I Gnosticism and Stephen Anderson is the new Greek Gnostic prophet What is what does any of this have to do with if If a man cannot read the

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New Testament with enough understanding to recognize the centrality of repentance to the gospel What does all the rest is have do with anything?

18:28

I don't get any of it. I really really don't It just seems like a massive waste of storage space on YouTube To put this kind of stuff up there

18:38

So I've heard some of these guys and not just Stephen Anderson bemoaning the level of Greek proficiency taught in seminaries

18:46

Well, hey Where have we heard that before? I have for at least two decades now been pointing out the fact that In seminary there has been a tremendous

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Diminishment upon the languages in favor of church leadership

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Evangelism strategies financial strategies Entertainment basically

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And I've told the stories of How Some of these seminaries have adopted what most seminaries have simply dropped

19:33

Requirements for biblical languages those that continue to print pretend that they have them Many of them have adopted a situation where you can you can literally qualify for your for your your biblical language requirements in a

19:47

Jan term class and What that makes it is a biblical tools class you know you you study logos or accordance or something you figure out how to use it and now you

19:58

You're good I've been bemoaning this for a long time. I've told the story of having 15 weeks 15 three -hour sessions to bring people through both

20:11

Introductory texts in Greek and Hebrew and How that form knowing that for most of them, that's all they're gonna get

20:20

I've been bemoaning that for a long time, but how you pronounce it is irrelevant to that Absolutely 1 ,000 % irrelevant it makes no difference now

20:35

If if what they're saying is well, I think I think seminary students should spend more time reading

20:41

Homeric Greek or reading the Greek Septuagint is like hey, I think it'd be wonderful to read the

20:46

Greek Septuagint I just I had I Bought those I highly recommend.

20:51

They're very nicely done the Hendrickson two -volume Greek Septuagint reader thing. That's great but That's not going to change the fact

21:03

That New Testament exegesis is not dependent upon your pronunciation and it's primarily dependent upon your knowledge of grammar and syntax the context and the size of your vocabulary and That vocabulary it doesn't matter how you pronounce the out a toss if you don't know what it means

21:26

So, I don't I don't get any of it and Yeah, I know it's out there. I don't have time for it right now.

21:32

I I Mean that is so low on the priority list. It's not even funny We are right now talking with folks in South Africa, it looks like could have as many as three

21:44

Debates in South Africa. I mentioned last time if you can help us get there. It's expensive trip

21:50

The travel fund a link is available on our website under the support me Section if you can help us to get there, we're looking at debates two debates on Islam and One debate

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Lord willing there's there's pressure. Please pray that it happens

22:12

You know how this works, you know how if we were trying to do this the United States what would happen? but we want to be doing a debate with on the subject of The nature of marriage because South Africa has had the profaning of marriage longer than we have and so Please pray that happens.

22:30

We could have three debates there. There's at least two in November So we've got a lot of stuff coming on that's so much more important Than any of this silly stuff that that's why it doesn't really rate too high in a related but not directly related

22:50

Development Robert true love posted As a preview

22:57

The preface to a booklet or book. I'm not sure what he referred to it as that He is right has written or is writing and it's called the transient text the canonical crisis of The modern

23:11

Bible movement and so, you know that there's going to be this Conference right around the time that I'll be doing a debate in Atlanta with a

23:22

Muslim and This it's only two pages that's that's why

23:29

I I Want to take a look at it I Understand the appeal of this

23:38

But I want again Especially our listeners to understand where the problem lies

23:48

It talks about the fact that in 2016 crossway Had announced that it was going to basically basically what they announced is they were going to shut down their translation committee and they were going to put out the final version of The ESV and that was gonna be it

24:06

And Then very very briefly after that about 19 days,

24:13

I believe after that There was the they had called it the permanent text edition

24:21

But just few days later. They reversed their decision and said in a statement on crossways website

24:28

They said that their goal is now not to establish a permanent text But rather to allow for ongoing periodic updating of the text reflect the realities of biblical scholarship

24:36

Such as textual discoveries or changes in English over time Then he says when we look at the history of the

24:42

English Bible since the late 19th century we see a sharp break With how the Bible was viewed in earlier church history the never -ending series of revisions as part of this departure and Bible publishers are committed to revising the text of your

24:59

Bible until the eschaton. Well, I don't think Bible publishers could care less the progress with you

25:05

Bible publishers and At this point we need to be specific Thomas Nelson crossway

25:14

Zondervan The the folks that own the the major translations

25:20

Lachman Foundation isn't a major Publishing house type thing, but they hold the

25:27

NASB They if they continue to have active translation committees then

25:39

What they're doing is they're keeping the translate they're either keeping the translation consistent with Updates in the

25:51

Nessie Olin or UBS text and Those updates are happening because of the current work on ECM the edition of critical mayor critical mayor

26:03

Which is supposed to be done by 2030 and So we've talked on this program a number of times before about what happened with the

26:13

ESV at Jude 5 because of the text Change in the

26:20

Nessie Olin text. And again when I say text change that simply means that What was in the textual apparatus as a note?

26:29

one of those readings was placed into the text itself and the Text main text reading which had been the 27th edition was put into the note.

26:39

So there are Hundreds and hundreds of textual notes and UBS thousands in Nessie Olin and What the

26:50

ESV did was follow the Editorial decision it doesn't mean, you know, you know people get the idea that well that means the this committee is

27:03

Deciding they didn't like what was said here. No in that instance. It was simply the ECM Has Jesus in Jude 5 rather than Lord?

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The Nessie Olin followed that and so the ESV consistently followed the next edition of the

27:19

Nessie Olin that came out That's all there was to it we had known about the variant that said

27:24

Jesus for centuries and centuries and centuries It's not like someone's just deciding to change things willy -nilly the issue is what has the best pedigree and CBGM had been utilized and to demonstrate that the manuscripts to say

27:43

Jesus at Jude 5 Are more genealogically coherent with one another in their reading

27:50

Then the manuscripts that say Lord So anyways if there are still current translation committees that are sitting and active

28:02

Then they have to make decisions concerning Numerous issues now that can be positive and can be negative one of the negative

28:12

Aspects of that is the possibility that a committee that has control over a conservative good

28:22

Translation can be influenced by societal movements, especially in regards to gender pronouns and things like that That's the reality of having

28:35

English Bible translations and Obviously though there were numerous English Bible translations in the 16th century 17th century as well

28:46

Not nearly as many as we have today nor could there have been Just simply the market would not would not be able to sustain anything like that.

28:55

I mean just economically printing wise All that kind of stuff that just simply wouldn't have been a possibility but there were multiple translations and To come up with a new translation did not necessarily mean you were saying that all of the translations were bad or anything else

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There were just Reasons for producing such translations. I've said we have more than enough don't need any in English put all that money towards something else

29:22

So it's not so much Bible publishers The issue is

29:28

New Testament scholars Continue to analyze manuscripts and now with CBGM There will be we are in the middle of a revolution.

29:40

I've said this numerous times I think that's one of the reasons though to be honest with you. I have not yet seen any

29:47

Real meaningful interaction from the traditionalists with CBGM And with the methodology itself,

29:57

I Don't know of any of them that actually have any proficiency in an understanding of how

30:04

CBGM works so But we are in the midst of a revolution and There are going to be big news stories over the next couple of years because Gospels of Mark and John Will be published in the

30:23

ECM ECM over the next couple of years and I don't expect major changes, but for example

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Variations in the Gospels carry more weight. Most people had never even heard of the Jude 5 variant and Almost anything that was changed in Acts was just so minor that It's all flown under the radar

30:49

Once you start doing stuff in the Gospels all of a sudden it's gonna hit and everybody's gonna be going. What is

30:54

CBGM? What is this all about? and it's Given how often

31:00

CBGM is misrepresented even by scholars today. It's gonna be ugly for a while anyway

31:09

Scholars continue to do this type of analysis and At least through 2030 that kind of information is going to continue to come out.

31:21

Well, you can ignore it The enemies of the faith won't ignore it so we can't but some people will and It's just easier for people to say

31:32

I don't want to have to think about all that stuff I just just just give me my Bible. I want to think about all that stuff That Sounds very pious.

31:41

There's only one problem Anyone who has read church history knows that every single generation of Christians in the past has had to deal with this issue

31:50

There's lots of discussion in the patristic sources about variants and things like that The problem is they didn't have nearly the amount of information that we have.

31:59

Well, they can tell us well We've seen manuscripts like this, but we can actually document we can say here's the manuscript.

32:06

Here's a picture Here's a high -quality digital picture of this manuscript We can provide that and it's the first time in history that we've been able to do that No one in the past has been able to do that.

32:18

That's that's just the way it is so It's not this idea that We just want to keep changing the

32:27

Bible until the eschaton but the serious commitment

32:36

To knowing what was written by the Apostles Does require us?

32:44

to take a different perspective than those that would say We just simply established this particular text.

32:51

Here's our theological reasons for doing so and So we're just not gonna worry about all the rest of this type of stuff I have said before I don't believe that perspective can be taken out into apologetics but anyway, so last

33:10

Last two paragraphs here the Bible as the unchanging Word of God has been replaced With what is now a transient text.

33:17

Well, see I I don't believe that type of assertion could survive debate

33:25

Because I can go to the second century and And show you discussions of textual variation

33:33

Justin Martyr arguing with the Jews saying they've changed things and Justin Martyr wasn't right in all instances in what he said

33:45

Second third century filled with discussions of the textual history

33:51

So to pretend that this is some new thing Is just historically untenable

33:58

It could not survive cross -examination It is not like well up to this point this wasn't even the perspective of Erasmus or Beza You can't read their writings especially when it comes to their treatment of the

34:16

Greek text and How often they they left it to the reader? Ah could be this could be that Leave it to you

34:25

That's that's not unchanging Word of God position that is being assumed here because the

34:33

There's a vast difference between the concept of the fact that God has preserved his word and that it's not being edited and changed we agree with that and Then the practical application of actually producing a text

34:48

It's one thing to say yes in the manuscripts. God has preserved his word

34:53

It's another thing to say and now give us that in exact Forms that we can produce translations and all the different languages of man that we want to produce it in On the one hand you can theologically make grand statements

35:09

But your grants if your grand statements cannot produce a New Testament They're not they're just grand statements

35:19

Along With the loss of the Bible as an unchanging standard now,

35:25

I I really think a lot of folks actually do believe the assertion That having textual critical notes in your

35:33

Greek New Testament means that the Bible has been lost as an unchanging standard which would mean you can't have any of the notes that that indicate the differences between the various TRS or Even the errors that Erasmus or Beza made or the the places where in the

35:52

Stephanos text Stephanos puts The beta in and that's

35:58

Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis the living Bible of the of the New Testament Church You have to ignore all that stuff

36:06

When when Stephanos put the variant readings in the 1550 Did that result in the loss the

36:14

Bible is an unchanging standard? No, I didn't then it doesn't today if we're consistent if we're consistent

36:22

Along with the loss the Bible is an unchanging standard a number of biblical Commitments that were sacrosanct until the modern era are now becoming virtually lost to us

36:30

It is my concern that this is leading to a canonical crisis This booklet is about why this is happening its negative consequences and what it's going to take to make it stop.

36:39

Well we will obviously be looking forward to the Publication of that because I have said more than once I believe applying standards of consistency will

36:52

Demonstrate that this form of argumentation Cannot survive cross -examination. I just can't can't 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number

37:07

You can call today. That is a toll -free number for those of you who? You know,

37:13

I was watching in the USA, yeah, I was watching I love when all these memes pop up on Facebook That show the old rotary dial phones which of course

37:25

I grew up with I Remember the first fancy -dancy beep beep beep touchtone. Yeah touchtone.

37:31

That was that was fun, but My first phones didn't have that and yes, you could

37:37

Mess that up quite easily you would think it'd be pretty simple But it's so much fun to watch the videos of teenagers today trying to figure out a rotary phone it's

37:49

Probably not fair And it's sort of like us some of us old folks trying to figure out some modern gadget, they just come out with but it's sort of funny to watch and it would take a while to dial because Because they're the the bigger the number was like like if you dialed a nine

38:11

That would take a while. So like those remember those old Radio contests where you had to dial in or something like that if you had a rotary phone you were doomed you

38:25

That was fun that was now I'm not old enough to remember when you pick it up and get an operator and dial you know

38:32

Carbondale 6 1 2 or something like that, but There are still folks a few folks running around that are in that situation

38:40

But I ain't one of them, but I do remember the rotaries. They were they were lots of fun. Oh Okay, well the phone calls they be a coming in All right, let's

39:00

Talk to Anna. Hi Anna Hi, dr. White. Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call.

39:06

Mm -hmm okay, so my question is about blasphemy the Holy Spirit and so kind of where this is coming from is kind of like in the

39:14

Pentecostal churches like Bethel Church and like Benny Hinn and stuff You see like the holy laughter the shaking the convulsing and that's something you see a lot

39:22

It's like the occult from like the Kundalini spirit and the Hindu and stuff like that So I guess my question is kind of like are these manifestations that you see in these churches

39:31

Demonic imitation of occult or like did the occult like you think Satan Stole that from the

39:37

Holy Spirit and is now like manifesting that into the occult. And then so like is attributing like these acts that you see like Benny Hinn and like that's all these things and calling it demonic if That's from the

39:50

Holy Spirit then it's like in my borderline like blaspheming the Holy Spirit well, you know when

39:57

I saw the the title of the question The the New Testament teaching on the subject of the blasphemy of the

40:05

Holy Spirit Jesus identifies as as the unpardonable sin to blaspheme the

40:12

Holy Spirit and That has a specific context that was in regards to the

40:21

Jews who had the Word of God and they had great light and yet in spite of that they attributed to Beelzebub the the

40:32

Prince of Demons the actions that Jesus undertook as the Son of God by the power of the

40:38

Holy Spirit and this was described as being unforgivable because of the fact that it is the

40:46

Holy Spirit who brings conviction of sin and so if you understand the the actions and power of the of the

40:53

Holy Spirit of God to be that of Satan then you are putting yourself outside of the very mechanism whereby you would be granted repentance and brought to repentance anyways that's what makes the unpardonable sin unpardonable is because it's unpardonable that is it

41:11

Demonstrates a person who has so shut their eyes to the light and loves the darkness that they will

41:20

Have cut themselves off from the convicting power of the Holy Spirit of God By that by that commitment that can only be done by someone who has a tremendous amount of light and Sins against that and that's not really

41:32

I think what you're asking What you're asking is more along the lines of When the

41:41

New Testament tells us To test all things and yet at the same time, for example, the

41:47

Corinthians are told not to forbid speaking in tongues, for example Now we can contextualize that we can point out that there's a purpose for speaking in tongues and that purpose was fulfilled at a certain point in time in history and therefore that's not relevant, but We at the same time see

42:06

Manifestations The the coat throw the coat spin that Benny Hinn uses where he takes his

42:15

Armani jacket and Knocks over the first few rows of the audience this type of thing and the question becomes

42:24

Which is this is this demonic or is this? some kind of trickery that that involves group hallucination or group manipulation and people expecting something to happen and then it does so on so forth well

42:42

You don't necessarily have to divide those equally apart from one another

42:48

Anything that will lead a person to Non dealing with their sin not dealing with the call of discipleship, whatever else it might be is demonic and demonic doesn't have to The demons are not precluded from using

43:08

Psychological aspects of things to accomplish their purposes and so it doesn't have to be all of one or all of the other it can

43:15

Be a mixture Depending upon the individual that you're talking to and things like that and then the question becomes yeah but if you say anything that is a spiritual manifestation that might be of the

43:26

Holy Spirit is Not then are you blaspheming the Holy Spirit? And I don't think that that's

43:32

Anywhere used in the New Testament in that way Again the the specific context in which blasphemy the

43:40

Holy Spirit is mentioned Was specifically people with tremendous light in the presence of the very

43:46

Son of God identifying his power is that of Satan and We're not dealing with that kind of a kind of a context today

43:56

So I think that kind of an application would be would be excessive At the same time

44:02

I have seen people Who and and it it I think reformed or even?

44:10

Fundamentalist types of folks are Subject to this kind of thing where you see something that is different from your experience and define

44:22

The parameters of what the Spirit of God could do Based upon what you have seen him do or at least you have thought that you saw him do your understanding?

44:34

Becomes the the parameters and I've seen people And I fully understand the mindset that just automatically

44:42

Dismisses anything if it's different from what my experience has been so we have to be very very careful

44:49

That we do not Make our experiences the standard by which we determine these things and so there needs to be a balance

44:57

It needs to be a mature balance. It needs to be a balance that is derived from consistent

45:03

Exegesis of the text the Word of God and an application to the things that are happening in our in in the church and in our culture today and unfortunately

45:14

Consistent balanced reasoning is not going to sell you a lot of books or make you overly popular

45:21

So it's not as prevalent as it as it should be but that's that's what that's what we definitely would need in especially in these days

45:30

When we have warnings about those who will use false doctrine to tickle ears and lead people astray

45:36

We have warning after warning after warning after warning of super apostles and all sorts of stuff like that One side tends to take that To one extreme and say it said and you know, some people go to the point of saying the

45:50

Holy Spirit's not doing anything at all And then we know what the other extreme is because they own television stations

46:01

I do have one question kind of stemming off from that. So and okay, so like would you say that like for example when like Steven Anderson and that group like Says like the work of like Charles Spurgeon and you and all that stuff is like demonic.

46:17

Are they blaspheming the Holy Spirit? No, you're just being stupid. I Mean I mean

46:26

I would I would I think Jesus Was very serious when he spoke of the blasphemy the

46:33

Holy Spirit I can't give Steven Anderson that much credit for being serious So The the scribes of Pharisees had tremendous light

46:42

Steven Anderson does not I? Mean, yeah, he's got great exposure to the Bible, but but it's very very narrow and and and very

46:52

Limited as far as that's concerned. So Yeah, when all it's

46:57

Steven Anderson is doing when he identifies Charles Spurgeon's teaching as as demonic is just Demonstrating how shallow his thinking is on things and how tradition bound he is but again,

47:10

I I'm not gonna You know I'll leave I'll leave the determination of who has committed that sin to the

47:18

Spirit of God and to the judge of all men the resurrected Son of God, I I would just point out that that's fallacious and silly and direct people the

47:26

Word of God and go from there Okay. Okay. Thanks Anna All right. Thank you.

47:31

Bye. Bye All right, eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

47:37

Let me see here. Let's talk to Nathan hi Nathan Hi, dr.

47:44

White, how are you doing? So I my question is regarding acts 20 verse 7

47:52

To give you a little background I have a friend who got caught up in the Hebrew roots movement and I was trying to give him a defense of Sunday Lord's Day worship from Scripture.

48:03

So I went to John 20 26 acts 27 1st Corinthians 16 2 and so on and he shot back at me and he said that acts 20 verse 7 is translated wrong because When it says first day of the week, he said a day is not in the

48:21

Greek there The word Hemera. He said it is Mia's own Sabbath tone He said it should read one of the

48:28

Sabbath and then he showed me that Sindale 1526 actually read

48:36

On a Sabbath and so he said that all our English Bibles are translated incorrectly

48:43

So I just wanted and I bet you and I and I bet you if you took him to acts 20 verse 8 He couldn't read a single word out of his life depended on it.

48:51

Um It yeah, it does it does it does okay It does say and date say

48:58

Mia tone sabbatone But Mia Mia tone sabbatone means the first of the

49:04

Sabbath's. So in other words the first the week That's why they translate the first day of the week There are a lot you can always tell people who actually can't read

49:13

Greek Because they get tripped up by little things like this Because it's a part of their, you know, whatever

49:23

Thing they're trying to push crusade. They've got whatever it might be It's like when I when

49:28

I've encountered a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses who know Certain texts really really really well, but if you take them to the very next verse and ask them to read it

49:37

They can't make heads or tails out of it because they don't actually just sit there and read Greek And so they they they don't recognize that there are phrases in the

49:48

Greek language that you have to be to render into English in an understandable fashion and so the first of tone sabbatone

49:59

The Mia tone sabbatone. What what is that going to be? Well, that's that's the first after the

50:06

Sabbath So it's the first of the Sabbath week. And so what's that the first day of the week?

50:11

That's what that's that's how we would say it and that's why Modern Bible translations done by entire teams of scholars

50:19

That have spent years doing this and your friend hasn't and probably the people selling in books to Understand it and render it in a understandable fashion.

50:29

So yeah, there may have you know If you go back to some of the earliest translations

50:36

Maybe someone like Tyndale didn't have access to as wide a variety of external

50:43

Examples of the utilization of these things but The fact the matter is it's pretty it's pretty straightforward when they were gathered to to break bread

50:53

We know what the critic a Hemera is in in Revelation chapter 1 the Lord's Day That's right and shaded by the patristic utilization of those phrases.

51:03

And so yeah, there's always there's always some way, you know, if you want to The the

51:09

Scriptures Can be twisted in an infinite number of ways to the judgment of those who do so All right,

51:20

I'd fully agree. But then that's what I told him I just said I think it could be first from the Sabbath, which was

51:26

Sunday So they gathered on a Sunday and Paul they broke bread and Paul expounded the scriptures

51:32

So that was a Sunday gathering of Christians. Yep Um, you know and anyway, he preached too long and killed the poor kid

51:42

Well, I appreciate appreciate your thoughts on the matter and thank you and God bless

51:48

I think today then I got less of a didn't really mean to say it the Apostle preached too long and in that way, but Some people is gonna make a meme out of that.

51:59

All right, let's talk to Brent in Florida. Hi Brent I don't

52:04

James doing good Um, I could first of all, I called a few months ago about repentance and I really

52:11

I'm grateful for your response I really needed somebody to To kind of tell me to stop looking at myself so much and in a really nice way

52:19

You told me that and I'm very grateful for that Um, I have a question today

52:24

About I guess you I guess they call it the emergent church It's kind of like I call like the

52:30

American Church I'm in a church. I'm in a church now, and I really like the pastor.

52:37

I've gotten cool with them We sit down and talk about the scriptures all the time But we differ about this kind of I went one time they had like a youth gathering and I almost couldn't ever go back to the church because of it me and my wife walked in there and I mean there's fog machines

52:55

There's lights you would have thought like the greatest rock concert ever was happening in this building and I don't know how to really deal with that with myself because I do believe

53:07

God still writes music Through people like I don't believe that the hymns are the end all of all music for Christians, but at the same time

53:17

Sometimes I feel like I compromise in the way of like it's to me. It's so clearly the world's music and I Don't feel like it should be such a big deal.

53:28

But like I'm looking at like for example my wife And the only thing she knows about Christ other than what we talk about but in her own time is like a 21st century rock concert

53:43

Christian music Like I don't know if I take it too far or have you noticed this in church?

53:50

Maybe not yours, but like in have you dealt with this at all. I guess my question well This really doesn't have anything to do with what's called the emergent church, that's a specific movement with with specific parameters

54:05

Where basically everything is being re -examined from the Trinity through the gospel to Everything's everything.

54:14

There are a lot of quote -unquote red -letter Christians involved with this and stuff like that. So it's not It's not an emergent church thing specifically it's just that there is in the

54:24

United States an entertainment culture that has Has come up You know the church that I'm a pastor of now is a family integrated church.

54:36

So you don't have youth church You don't have a kids church. You don't divide any of that stuff up everybody's in the preaching the word and and so there's nothing like that, but There's no question that there is a tremendous amount of seeking to emulate the world seeking to Imitate and to draw and to attract based upon looking like the world

55:06

I Obviously see all of that and would agree with with all of that the the issue becomes

55:14

Look when I was when I was young the older generation thought that my music was terrible and I grew up listening well grew up in my teen years

55:28

I Discovered Keith Green and his music meant the world to me.

55:34

Well, my parents never liked Keith Green and Didn't like how long his hair was or whatever else it might be or the beat of the drums

55:41

Hey, I I worked at a radio station family life radio the same family life radio that exists today and I Remember clearly the type written on a typewriter not a computer.

55:55

I'm not back then the type written note above the board That said make sure not to play music that emphasizes a the the beat of the drums and That was in the late 1970s early 1980s well early 1980s and so You know, we can all look back and see how things have changed and we can lament some things

56:21

But not all change is necessarily a negative change either. And so the balance has to be found in Analyzing.

56:30

What's the motivation? Why what are we bringing these people here to do? Why do we have them separated out from more mature individuals?

56:40

What messages are we communicating to them? How much time are we spending entertaining versus actually giving a foundation to these individuals those those are the issues.

56:49

It's not so much the The style of music as it is what you're actually communicating

56:57

When the music is finished or why you're doing it the way you're doing it. There certainly has to be there must be modesty

57:05

There can't be gyration and dancing around and acting like the world in that way. But as far as the music itself goes

57:13

There were a couple of Keith Green songs that had quite a beat to them that had also an incredibly convicting message

57:20

And I could mention some modern bands that I listen to not all the time

57:26

Work out to them. It helps it helps keep the the legs turning when you're riding a bike, I guess

57:32

But they've got they've got a good message and then there are others you listen to the message and it's just it's a it's an inch deep

57:39

It's real easy for us to become extremely judgmental as if everybody needs to you know match up to my

57:48

Standards as to what I like But at the same time there there has to be real discernment when you ask the question.

57:54

What are we doing? What is going on here? Are we raising a generation that has no concept of sitting and seriously engaging with the

58:04

Word of God and being instructed from the Word of God and showing respect for the Word of God and and all these other issues that come along with it and so it's a

58:13

It's an area that you find very very strong opinions in but I would just emphasize that the the primary thing that needs to be looked at is our intentions and what the end result we're attempting to get to is if all we want are people in the seats and Numbers and getting people baptized 2 .74

58:33

times per person Then that's going to result in the very surface level

58:38

Christianity that is abandoned once somebody gets into college anyways All right

58:49

Somebody actually told me Don't you realize don't you realize that Charles Wesley's music was new at one point or you know?

58:57

Amazing Grace happened to be a new song at some point I'm sure a lot of people probably was saying that was the new stuff that they didn't want in their church and stuff

59:04

So I try to be not too dogmatic about it, but sometimes that I had to walk out of there I don't know.

59:11

It gives me a feeling of when I was when I lived unsafe. I don't know maybe yeah, I understand

59:16

I understand well if if it's specifically intending to appeal to that part of the carnal nature then there is then there is a problem, but We have to be

59:26

Have to be careful as to exactly where we we end up drawing that line. Hey, thanks, Brad. I appreciate the call all right

59:32

Yeah, all right get us better Alright, let's go to our last Caller here and talk with Cameron.

59:39

Hi Cameron Hi, Dr.. White. How you doing today doing good? Hey, I wanted to Ask you a question about say something.

59:48

I heard from a friend of mine. I've got say a mutual friend He's a minister in the SBC. I'm a deacon in the

59:55

PCA church in Charlotte, and he and I were talking about new education Venture of his he did his

01:00:01

M. Div at Southeastern, and he's currently pursuing a THM and when I asked what he was studying

01:00:07

He said that he was studying Romans and how sin influences racial relations

01:00:14

Now my friend is african -american I said he is a minister in an SBC Church, and he is conservative

01:00:21

Theologically It's my to what from what I understand you're fairly politically conservative as well for whatever.

01:00:27

That's worth I thought that was quite interesting. I had not heard that before and it gave me great pause to think about the fact that You know postgraduate education

01:00:38

Is happening in you know a quote -unquote moderate or conservative seminary?

01:00:46

Funded by the SBC that has a race at the very center of it. I want to get your thoughts on that well, so Anything else about this?

01:00:54

I'm confused so He he did his master's at Southeastern, but now he's doing a

01:01:00

THM there as well That's correct. Oh, okay, all right Well, yeah,

01:01:05

I'm not really sure why he's doing there as well I thought you would have gone someplace else But yeah, he's still at Southeastern doing his

01:01:13

THM and from what I understand when I asked him a few more probing questions Regarding the specifics of the study.

01:01:19

It sounded almost like he was looking into the first two and a half to three chapters of Romans to see how

01:01:28

Sin informs people in a different way with respect to their race, which again that may

01:01:34

I may be paraphrasing Exactly what he's doing, but it sounded quite alarming to be honest with you as someone who

01:01:43

Is a reformed Christian. I that was very troubling to hear that a seminary like Southeastern was having

01:01:49

THM studies Something like that. It seems very shallow and it just didn't seem right.

01:01:55

I wanted to see what your thoughts were on that Well, and if you've heard of anything else like that across the country well without without seeing what the resultant

01:02:05

Project says that the result is I can't it would be very unwise to make any comments about I just if it's based on the first three chapters of Romans the only distinction

01:02:17

That the first three chapters of Romans recognizes or deals with is the Jewish Gentile issue because you have chapter 1 and Then you have the

01:02:29

Jews in chapter 2 and then chapter 3 all the world So that whether Jew or Gentile every mouth is stopped every tongue is stilled and we're all put in the exact same place so that there's one gospel and That one gospel justifies

01:02:46

Jew and Gentile in the exact same way. There's nothing in the modern sense of race ethnicity

01:02:54

Anywhere in Romans at all Whether it's first three chapters or any place else

01:03:01

There's simply nothing there that could be mapped into a black white

01:03:07

Hispanic Asian in the United States or In South Africa or in Ukraine or in Russia or in Thailand or whatever else?

01:03:18

I mean there are there ethnic tensions in every one of those places, but they're all different ethnic tensions

01:03:26

And there's nothing in Romans That would bring any of that in outside of the reality

01:03:35

That you could make this argument the argument of Romans 1 through 3 is there is no ethnicity

01:03:41

There is no impact upon the doctrine of sin Jews and Gentiles all alike have fallen short of the glory of God and therefore are

01:03:51

Justified in exactly the same way. That's that's the only argument that you could derive

01:03:58

From the beginning of the book of Romans or anywhere else in Romans for that matter or the rest of New Testament so obviously in many seminaries today

01:04:11

What would happen? following after the footsteps of James Cone Would be the importation of incredibly foreign parameters and sources of information that would be caused to Be the filter through which the

01:04:29

New Testament words are read and then you can introduce all sorts of black white oppressed oppressor categories and and go from there, but any

01:04:42

Meaningful reading of Romans in its original context is going to defy anything like that at all.

01:04:48

So I don't know. Maybe that's what he's gonna come up with. I'd like to hope that that were the case

01:04:55

But until it's published or written or there's an abstract you can read or something like that. You can't you can't just predict exactly what it's going to be

01:05:06

Right, I completely agree with everything you've said. Unfortunately, I do think it's going to be modern forms of Racial talks as they're had in the

01:05:15

West right now and how that's going to be influenced in his reading of the text Yeah, yeah based on some other things

01:05:22

I've heard so I think unfortunately it's gonna be a fairly liberal result you and I would probably cringe at to read and see coming out of a

01:05:31

What used to be a fairly conservative seminary until? Until it's there. I can't you can't

01:05:37

You can't just expect the worst you have to hope for the best and and then when it comes out you can then deal with it from that perspective, but yeah,

01:05:48

I Can see how that Conclusion could be drawn, but I want to try to wait and see what actually happens

01:05:58

Right. Okay. Absolutely. All right. Thanks Cameron. Good deal. All right. Thank you. I said less. Bye -bye All right, well

01:06:06

Some good calls there, even though we had someone on on Twitter say I'd rather just have you talk.

01:06:12

But as you say Actually a lot of folks like to like to have the phone calls once in a while We don't do it all the time.

01:06:20

In fact, we don't do it the majority of the time if I think of weird Yes, variety variety is a good thing right is a good thing so Like I said the beginning next week

01:06:33

I'm sorry next month headed to South Africa. Please be praying for that because literally only a matter of days home after that before Salt Lake City Australia We really need help with the travel fund along those lines because those are major major trip right after Australia matter of days home

01:06:55

London Debates at least two maybe more they're coming back to Atlanta debate there

01:07:05

At least half a dozen debates before the end of the year. That's a tremendous amount of Preparation on my part, so please pray for my health not just that I don't fall off of a mountain over the next couple weeks because it is my time to be in in Colorado doing my extended studying and Climbing of mountains time.

01:07:28

That's I'm gonna keep trying to do that as long as this old body's gonna let me that's

01:07:33

Just just who I am and what makes me tick It's also when I get a lot of studying that a lot of reading done.

01:07:39

So Some people take what they call sabbaticals. I just go ride a bike for up insane mountains to 14 ,000 feet.

01:07:47

It's fun Anyways, you get some really great theological insights But there's half the oxygen

01:07:53

So maybe that has something to do that. Anyway, we got a lot coming up But what that means is

01:07:59

I will be driving next week on Tuesday and so The dividing line for next week will be on Monday and then once I'm up there then we'll need to figure out

01:08:13

What my how my schedule and riches will Interact and we'll figure out when to do a program from up there in in Colorado.

01:08:20

So Looking for Monday for a dividing line. We'll see you then. Thanks for watching.