When does Self Help Become Idolatry? (Special Guests Hannah Wisner & Michelle Romo) | S5 E8

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Point Taken Podcast. We have, well, we have a group of ladies who, you don't know this, but we actually tried to film this weeks ago and the system didn't work, so we're back at it.

This is Hannah, Anna, and Michelle, and today we're talking about the role of a Christian in self -care.

Exercise, diet, that kind of stuff, what should that look like in the life of a

Christian, when's it go too far, when's it not far enough, etc. But before we do, we're talking about the show

Alone. Now, there was, I learned something, I learned a lot from that show. Have you seen it?

Seconds, as I've walked by my husband's watching it. Oh, of course your husband watched it. He's like,

I could win this show. It did seem like she pluralized the word husband there, didn't he? Her husband's little polygamy.

Well, I was trying to decide, am I going to tell you like, you know, is he watching it on his phone? All I'm trying to say is moments as I've passed by him, it's been on the thing, he's like, oh, this is a really good show, and he and the boys watch it.

I love how she talks like that. All women imitate their husband's voices that way.

All women do. And then all men's wives are me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. There is some litany there,

I'll be honest. But my point is, so look, in this show, I guess I'm giving this show a plug right now.

In this show, this dude is winning, his name is Jordan, I think it's season six, because he is excellent at catching fish.

Now for those of you who don't know the show, you can pick 10 items. Is he the old guy? No. Okay, I'm trying to remember what season.

Yeah, he was young, actually. You pick 10 items, and you have to survive with those 10 items. You got to film yourself doing all that stuff.

Well, they're in the Arctic. They get dropped off in September. So, you know, it's 50 degrees or so.

But there's 10 people and you don't know how many people are left. The last one standing gets, you know, whatever, $250 ,000, $500 ,000.

Not enough. And the medical team comes once every two months or whatever to check your weight and don't tell you how many people are left.

So you could be at like day 40. And there could be one other person left or eight and you have no idea. That's what makes people quit a lot.

Well, he is doing great weight wise because he's catching fish. Okay, the lake freezes over.

And he caught, he killed a moose. This guy, I know which one you're talking about.

Yes. And you think he's gonna win. But here's the problem. Because he got a freaking moose that lasted him for so long.

A wolverine. A wolverine. Because he had this fort that he put all of the moose meat on trying to protect it from predators.

And the wolverine climbed up it and like ate everything. But watch, this is the problem. It didn't eat all the meat.

It ate all the fat. He had the fat. So then he was eating moose meat with very lean, no fat, and he was losing weight.

So the medical team said, we come back and you've lost any more weight, you're getting pulled. And he got pulled. No, he didn't. Because this is what he did.

He's so brilliant. He goes out into the middle of the lake. Whenever it's cold outside, fish migrate to the middle where it's warmest and then deeper.

He goes up to the middle of the lake. He makes a net with one of his 10 items was fishing line.

So he made a gill net. I remember that. Yeah. He goes out into the middle of the lake and takes his ax and chops a hole into the ice, walks 10 feet, chops another hole, takes a 15 foot branch that he's tied a bendable pliable wood.

He's tied the net to, feeds it through the ice, pulls out the other side. So the gill net is sitting in the water with two feet of the limb exposed hanging outside on the surface of the ice.

Genius. He comes back the next morning, has to recut the ice, obviously. Cause it's five degrees.

And there's like six fish caught in it. And he takes them home. Like what a bru - like who had that idea?

But I thought that he ended up not winning. You're getting a different guy confused. So he did win.

He won. Okay, good. I was going to say, that guy needs to win. He won the lead up and the guy doesn't win. I could have sworn he didn't.

Cause he was so upset. There was another guy. There might've been another dude that we did. There was another season where it was just, you have to make it a hundred days.

And if two people make it, y 'all split the money. Only one guy made it. And what he did was he killed a,

I don't know what they call him, a yak, whatever those things, with a knife. A three inch knife.

He was very brave. Much braver than I would have been. But he, he was like, I'm starving. If I don't do this,

I lose. Is that the million dollar one? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a good show. Didn't think

I would enjoy it, but it was like. The last thing I'll say about this, and then I'm done. There was this chick on the one we were watching and, uh, they're on day two and she catches a fish or, uh, yeah, she catches a fish and there's fish eggs in it.

And she goes, yeah, I don't really want to eat that. I don't like fish eggs. And Rachel, I looked at her like, she's not hungry enough. Cause by day 10, they'll eat anything.

One dude was chopping up his belt to get leather. Like, like he, they'll eat anything after a while.

I think I would eat onions and mushrooms. We're going to have to watch that again because that's a good one. Well, instead of doing a game today,

I thought since Thanksgiving is this next week, we could do some things that we're thankful for and like families and stuff.

Well, like, you know, we're all thankful. Most of us are thankful for our families. I mean, some of us have crazy families, but, um,

I don't know. I just trying to think like out of the box, like besides the generic answers that we always tend to give.

And so I don't know, just thought we'd start that way. Any moment to go first? I'll go first. Um, I am, this is going to sound silly.

I am thankful for the climate weather -wise that I live in. I get to experience all four seasons, spring, summer, this year for sure, fall, the past three or four winters here in Memphis have been maybe not to Michigan standards, but pretty bad winters for, for, for Memphis.

So, uh, that does my soul good. Like I love that. So, uh,

I'm thankful for the weather we've had and, you know, the different activities you get to do in that.

I'm thankful for all four seasons. And sometimes in Memphis, you get them all in one day. You wake up in the summertime and by the evening you're in sweats and a hoodie and you strip it off.

By the end of the day, you have your AC on at the end of the day on your way home. I would say, um, like, you know, a lot of people are like, oh,

I'm thankful for my church or, you know, but it's like, I'm thankful for the people within our church family. Like we had a friend's giving at, you know, a member friend's house last night.

And just to see how it's evolved, like over the past 10 years, it started at a Cracker Barrel like 10 years ago.

And then it's just evolved to like 30 plus people at someone's house. Like they invited their neighbors to come.

And so it was just, I just, I love being a part of our family. At two people's house that were married together that met here.

Yeah. Like, isn't that cool? Like the whole family. So that's what I'm thankful for is just good friends, fellowship. I think

I would say I'm thankful for just God's provision, not just like, you know, just everyday life.

Like I have, you know, a phone and all this other stuff. I mean, like in creation, cause I've been doing a lot of like, like herbology type stuff lately.

And just learning of all of the things that are important, like to us and our bodies that just grows from the ground and that's everywhere.

And that it's, it's, you know, yeah, exactly. Prevent sickness, you know, it cures diseases, all these things that, you know, we stress out about so much.

It's literally just in creation already. And it was designed to be there. I think about honey.

Whenever I think about that, honey is so good for you. Absolutely. So that's what I'm thankful for.

Everyone's looking at me. It's your turn. I know it's my turn. It's like all the eyes. This might be generic and maybe here it is because it's something we're used to in our culture at this church, but, or within this church body rather is the accountability that we have.

And I know that's kind of lame coming from me too, cause I'm overwhelmed with accountability, but all of that to say, like, especially this past week,

I've really had some people tell me the truth without like, they don't hate my guts, but they tell me the truth because they love me in fact.

So I am, I'm again, like almost daily grateful for the accountability of the ladies around me.

Even my husband, but the other people that I work with. And it seems like it's a, it's a gift that is painful at times, but if we're not grateful for it,

I think, or if we didn't have it, I think we would not understand the depth of our need for it.

I guess. Does that make sense? Like, it's one of those things that you're like, oh gosh, please don't tell me about that.

But oh, I'm so grateful that you told me about that because now I can hate it and put it out of my life.

Well, it's even the love of others that you receive through that. Cause I had to get called out for something this last week in accountability.

And I mean, I was like ugly crying about it and I'm just like, and I texted about, you know, our group about it.

I said, I'm just, I'm so thankful for y 'all because if I didn't have y 'all, I have no idea where I would be. And so it's such a big deal, but okay, well we'll go ahead and get started.

Did either of you have a point that you wanted to start on? Cause I know we talked about this last, you know, one of the last times and so I'll kind of just leave it up to y 'all and I'll just ask some questions along the way.

Okay. Not all at once. Well, I think the question that you were saying that we're asking is talking about self -care, right?

And in terms of fitness, exercise, diet. Yeah, what's that look like for a Christian? Right. I mean, right off the bat,

I think if the question is, should Christians exercise self -care? My thing is, how are you defining self -care?

Because that can go a lot of different ways. But if we're talking about fitness, diet, those types of things just by themselves,

I automatically say yes. But to me, the question is how far is too far.

It's not, should we do it? Hannah is a martial arts expert. She really is. I'm not being funny. No, she's ripped.

I am not ripped. Thank you. I might know things, but I don't look like I know things, which honestly I'm thankful for.

You were a kickboxing champion. Well, thank you. She's pretty tough. Well, thank you.

But like I said, my thing is not, should we exercise and do self -care? My thing is, how far should we take it?

Because yes, we should. I think everyone, if they have the means to do so, should exercise and diet and do these things.

Because if we go back through what the Bible says in Genesis, talking about how God gave us the seeds of the herbs and the plants that grow, and that He said we are to use them for food.

So that right away tells me like our bodies were built for these healthy things that God put on the earth.

So my answer to that is yes, it's just a matter of how far are we taking it. So like the gym bros, gym bros, can you find that for me?

It's the best, like the guys who are doing like all of the protein and the guys who too far would be like, because protein you need it if you work out, that's fine, especially with how much you're working out, but like steroids.

Of course not. Absolutely not. So that's why it's like, but where's the line of like, is doing all the protein and like working out seven days a week, like multiple times a day, like is that too much?

Like when does it turn into idolatry of self -care like we've talked about? Well, I think any like idolatry in and of itself is anything that you put before God.

So yeah, if your priority is waking up and making sure you go to the gym and you get your protein shake and you do this and you haven't even thought about spending time with God, or my thing is just, and this is something

I'm actually trying to learn a lot about right now, is just being still. Like exercise is great. You know, you burn calories, you move, you're getting out all this energy, but the

Bible literally says be still and know that I'm God. So my thing is, are we taking the time to be still and listen and, you know, prioritize that above have

I been to the gym today? So to me, that's when you're getting into idolatry is, am I making sure

I go to the gym every day, but not making sure I'm spending time in God's word every day. Right. So, and I have definitely been guilty of that myself.

Yeah. Well, and it's like, I haven't, I just started working out again because it has been, it was like two years.

Cause I got pregnant with my son, like 2022 January. And then

I had him in October of 22. And then I was like nursing and like, I'm, you already burn extra calories when you nurse.

And I'm like, I do not want to have to eat additional calories. Like I'm like, I'm, and then it's like a whole thing with milk supply.

So I'm like, I'm just going to take this year, like, and just put that as a priority. It can come later.

And then, so I've started to work out again, but in relation to that,

I've made like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or the days that like I work out after my son goes down for his first nap.

And then I'll plan like after I shower and everything, like I'll read scripture. So then that's like Monday through Saturday, I do that.

And so like having that time designated for that. And like, it's an outlet for me too.

I don't always eat the best, but I work out. So I don't have to always eat the best because I love food. I really do.

Like I got that Tomahawk pork chop when we went to Southern social last year, this pork chop is like that thick

Russell sprouts on the side.

Like, I'm like, I enjoy food. And it's like, that's one of the reasons I do work out is because I want to enjoy that.

Now I don't always eat the best because with me, I love pasta. I love breads.

I love, I love it all. Yeah. But you're not talking about going to get a big Mac. You're talking about like, you're talking about like normal home food, but it's like,

I just, I love eating those things. I know it doesn't look like the

Lord's supper. He served bread now quick. Come on. You're making all these excuses for the food you eat.

It sounds like normal food to me. It's not like you're like, no, but it's, but the, the pork chop is like indulgence.

Then bring me the leftovers and you don't eat all of it. No, I eat the leftovers. I'm sorry. Like that,

I'm not willing to share. You actually asked this time though. Wow. He didn't just put, but my point being like saying all of that, those two years, like I started working out right before I got pregnant with my son.

And then I ended up injuring my toe. Like, cause I felt like such a dude. I remember that. That was at SOG wasn't it?

I got turf toe. Like my toe just went, I could not walk for like a week.

It was during the warmup too. Like class started, we're warming up. Why'd you have to do that?

I felt that I was teaching. I was like, no, I killed Anna. She's never coming back. She hasn't.

I didn't. Well, and I'm used to working out with shoes and like an MMA, it's all barefoot. And my toe just went like different direction.

So then like I had that and then the nausea started kicking in like a pregnancy. And then it was like one thing after the other, like in may

I figured, or I found out like we had to move from our apartment. So trying to find a house in that market at the time was a nightmare.

And then moving when I was eight months pregnant and then trying to like get stuff ready for a baby. So I'm like, I do not have time to be putting into all that.

And I was working full time. Right. So that's something else. And then, you know, I have the child and then, you know, like postpartum not doing anything.

And then I finally go back to work full time. And then like he's in daycare and like doing all these things. I'm like, and I'm nursing on top of that, having to pump at work.

I'm like, I have no time. Like, I'm not, I'm not doing this. So I was using all of those things, like granted as reasons, but it's excuses to be slothful because I would sit and scrawl on my phone for like an hour on Tik TOK.

And I'm like, I have all of this time that I'm just wasting. And I'm not using that to better myself, whether it's reading scripture, whether it's being better with my eating habits, whether it's being more active so I can do more things with my child.

So it's like for me, it was convicting of just like the slothfulness that I experienced. Right. You also have to realize you have a bank of energy.

And when you're caring for a young child and working full time, I'm not sure that you have any energy to pull from that bank.

So maybe your hour of Tik TOK wasn't the most useful thing to do in that time. But did you lip?

Did you actually have energy? Because you kind of beat yourself up a little bit about this. And I feel like maybe you shouldn't.

I don't know. I used to wake up at 5 a .m. and then we would go to bed at like 830 because I was just so tired.

And so but I feel it's like, well, I feel, you know, we said that before the podcast. It's like you think about all the excuses that you make, you know, because people are like, oh,

I want to do this, but I'm just so tired. I'm like, are you really that tired? Like you can do other things with your time.

But yes, I only started working out after I started staying at home with myself because I had more energy and I'm like,

OK, I'm done with like all these tours. I actually have time to do something for myself. Right. And so for me, that is a form of self -care.

But like we were talking about this before the podcast started is self -care like on Tik TOK is very popular.

And it's like all your your skin care routine. I'm like, I wash my face and put moisturizer on like I don't understand like all these other steps that you have to do.

But it's all about like, oh, and then the body positivity thing. So we could touch on that if you wanted to.

You don't know what body positivity is. I don't know what that is either. Wow. Y 'all are so lucky to not know what this is. It's stupid.

Well, then you're about to ruin it for. Yeah, but I'm educating you on what it is because you asked. But body positivity and like I'm using these words, not it's just we speak truth on this podcast.

So just hear it for what it is like being fat, like people who are overweight, like it's rude to call them overweight or like obese.

It's just like you're beautiful in your own skin. Like you don't have to be a certain size to be beautiful, which is true.

However, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're healthy. You're still at risk for diabetes and heart disease and all of these things.

But like they will put like on Cosmo Cosmopolitan is like this, you know, very worldly magazine, to put it lightly, if you have children listening and you're supposed to like models are supposed to be attractive in a certain size because that's how the industry has portrayed it.

And they will put morbidly obese women in bikinis on the cover. And that's beautiful and that's healthy.

They've even gone to the lengths of saying that it's healthy to be where they are. And it's like, no, they're lazy or they are eating like bad.

And some of like Lizzo, I don't know if you guys know who Lizzo is. She's a popular singer. Yes, she is all about the body positivity movement.

And she will sit there and like record herself like eating Big Macs, just being unhealthy. And it's just like that.

And so it and so now with this, you have like the Jimbro aspect of like, you're going too hard, you know, you're doing roids and like all of this stuff just to get like a certain physique and, you know, feel good about yourself, whatever you're competing, bodybuilding, like, you know, weightlifting, whatever.

And then you have the other aspect of the slothfulness that is now being glorified in that.

And so it's I don't know, it's kind of like a funny outlook on you see like both sides of the spectrum.

This is being glorified and then this is being glorified. So you mean like, OK, so it's a positive thing if you are.

If you're fat, you're beautiful. Like if you weigh 500 pounds, you're beautiful no matter what. And you're healthy because if you're healthy, if you feel good about yourself, then it's healthy for you to have a mental, a good mental outlook on yourself.

I mean, God, you got to be kidding me. So but that's why it's like, you know, talking about this, it's like like Michelle brought up.

Well, what Michelle brought up, she's like, you know, you were tired, so maybe you're just being too hard on yourself. But it's like, but was that slothful, you know, in forms of like, because I needed to take care of my body and I wasn't doing that.

You know, I'm eating a five extra, 500 extra calories a day trying to, you know, get make sure

I have enough calories for breast milk. But it's like I just I wasn't taking care of myself, like mind, spirit or body.

Did you take a walk with your son outside ever? Never. Sometimes our neighborhood has this one really annoying dog down the street.

Her name is Mitzi and I want to kick her like so like puppy dog and I hate her.

Did you play with your son on the floor? Well, yeah. All right. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like I wanted to do it for me.

And so that's when it's like, when does the self -care become or the lack of self -care become a sin?

And you know what I'm saying? So like it's slothfulness. Was that slothful behavior?

And I'm using myself as an example because I would love to know and maybe have people relate. Well, I mean,

I would say that would depend on the habits you've created. If you mean that habitually every day you are scrolling on your phone and in the clearing, you have no time for something else.

Yeah, you probably need to make some changes. But I don't know that slothful is the right word for that. I will say going back to your other thing, though.

How how unloving do you have to be to tell someone who's doing something that will kill them by the time they're 36 that everything is perfectly

OK the way you are and you need to change nothing about your life? Well, it's like the you're true thing that we were talking about earlier. How unloving do you have to be to do something like that?

That is the most hateful thing I've ever heard. That just shocked me when you just said that is so unloving.

I'm really surprised you have not heard of that. I mean, that's like that's like having a friend who's hooked on painkillers and telling them to keep going the way they are.

If it makes you happy, then that's insane. Yeah. Yeah. But then if you correct somebody on their sin, you know, it's like you're well, our pastor, your dad said from the pulpit today, it's like, oh, cast no judgment.

Right. Don't you don't you don't you judge me, you know, type thing. And so I think it is a big it is a big disservice to those people.

If I can maybe spur you, you asked a question earlier of Hannah and maybe

I'll get Hannah to speak on this a little. I think I've noticed in people, including myself, this is when we start messing up, you know, the scripture says, whatever is true, honest, lovely, of good report,

I'm missing one. If there's any praise, if there's any excellence, dwell, think on these things. I think this is when we know we're starting getting next messed up.

If all I'm ever doing is thinking about the next time I'm going to do X. So let's say working out. If I get done working out and all

I'm ever doing is my entire life is planned around when is the next time I get to do that hunting, eating my next meal will look like this in the meal after if all like that with eating.

Right. If all I ever think about is planning, conniving, organizing my life so that this is the next thing,

I think that's when we all start to like, you know what? I am dwelling way too much on X.

So I think I have seen that happen with exercise. I mean, I. Well, you had you were in collegiate sports, like high school, like you were an athlete.

Yeah, I don't think I ever got to the point. I had a friend once when I say all he ever thought about.

I mean, he's at work. No matter what, all he's ever thinking about if he was allowed to go to gym four times a day.

I mean, I mean, all every thought, every conversation, every idea, every dream, every future plan of life, every goal, everything was revolved around that.

For me, I. So so for me. I do think.

No matter what it is, competition or not, we can always go too far. So like for me.

When I was in high school, I was burning about 10 ,000 calories a day.

But I had I had to gain weight, so I had to consume more than that.

And right now I'm just thinking like consuming over 10 ,000 calories. What's that?

What's the usual amount for like an athlete at 6 ,000, 5 ,000? 2 ,000 is like your baseline for like, you know, general population.

But yeah, athletes are, you know, between 3 ,500, 4 ,000 calories. I had to do a lot.

What did you I'm so feel so sorry for your family. Like, how did your parents afford to feed you? On Fridays.

I mean, on Saturdays, we made breakfast. I would eat breakfast. I would eat a 10 egg omelet and not like I would eat all of it.

I had to. I know you did. But like I would be starving. But I had the most four eggs when

I was postpartum and like two pieces of toast. I'll tell you when it got it got to a breaking point.

That's for me. Yeah. I'll tell you when it got to a breaking point for me. I'm like, all right, something's got to give. I was working in Somerville.

Seven in the morning, worked four hours, drove the hour and two minute drive from Somerville Town Square to University of Memphis, was in class for four hours, did rugby practice.

And then at night, did MMA training and then went to bed, rinse, repeat. That schedule was not sustainable.

That schedule. That was one semester. And I'm like, all right, next semester, something's got to give.

So there was an example where I'm like, all right. School, work, rugby,

MMA, one of these four got to go because I can't do this again. It ended up being

MMA. But yeah, something had to give because then, you know, you don't want to compete unless you can do it to the best of your ability.

Well, you can only do so much. But Hannah, going back to what Anna said, have you encountered, you know,

I'm talking about where all we do is plan, you know, if it's food, if it's exercise.

All right. Have you ever witnessed that before? Yes, I've been that person. All right. Describe that. Is it like what

I described? Can you explain your background in fitness and kind of like where you came from? Because like we know you're, well, we know what you do, but just for our audience, like.

So I started martial arts when I was nine years old because I was homeschooled. I had to have a extracurricular activity.

And so I chose martial arts. So I started at nine and I'm still going now. And I'm 33.

So I've been doing it a long time. And still incredible. But I have worked in fitness, not just like practicing it.

I have coached in it since I was about 15. And so I've not only seen the people that have dedicated their entire life and all of their time to this.

I've been that person. There was a time, I guess I was working at a gym and I've worked in gyms just about my whole life.

And I started training for the NPC competitions. Those are like the body figure competitions, you know, where you little suits and you get the spray tans and you're walking on the stage.

I started training for one of those. And I trained for about a month because I literally had to work out three times a day.

I had to eat six meals a day. And with each meal, I had to take like 10 supplements because you have to keep your, you know, all these different levels, like exactly right.

You have to burn X amount of calories and then your anabolic window and there's so much, literally that's all

I did. And I was not sleeping. I was like you, it's like I would get up early in the morning and exercise. And then by the time

I was going to bed, I had to be up six hours later and do it all again. And I did that for about a month.

And every part of my life started to just go downhill. Like I was not thinking about, you know, my spiritual life.

I was not thinking about my family, my friends. All I cared about was have, did I work out all three times? I'm tired, but I have to go anyway.

It's 1030 at night. Luckily, ATC is 24 hours. Here I go to the gym. I haven't got my third exercise in that's idolatry.

Y 'all like, I'm not saying people that do these competitions are sinful, terrible people, but for me, it was not conducive to my lifestyle at all.

Um, it was straight up idolatry for me. Um, so yeah, I've been in it a very long time and I've seen the good, the bad, the ugly.

I've been the good, the bad, and the ugly. And, um, I'm very thankful for where I am now. And for like what we offer here, like with the

SOG program, you know, it's a free gym, so it's not like you're paying $200 a month.

And so you feel like you have to be at every class all the time, workout five days a week, get your money's worth. You come when you want, you commit how much you want to commit and that's it.

You know, there's not this big, um, macho man, Randy Savage lifestyle you have to have to work out at our, at our

MMA gym. So I'm thankful for that because I'm not used to that at all. Yeah. So I, um, speaking of the gym, so every now and then you can tell what someone's motives is, motives are.

Thank you. Um, when it comes to MMA, if someone comes in and their idea is to best somebody in front of somebody else, right?

Their intentions, those people we normally, you know, take care of. That's when I'm like, here, let me go with that guy.

I love sparring with those guys. Me too. I love that. I'll let Hannah spar with them. But, um, you can tell someone's intentions.

So I think a lot of self care comes down to intention. What are you trying to do?

What's the purpose here? Um, you know, I think there's a lot of leeway in gray area, but the,

I think what Hannah said pretty much summarizes it. If we wanted to make this podcast five minutes, we could have just said what she just said.

Right. Idolatry is putting something else as more valuable, more desirable, more pleasurable than God.

It is more important to me than God. Well, the Bible says, Jesus said, what, where your treasure is, there is your heart also.

So what do we treasure? What are we treasuring up? If someone had a silent film of my life, so I didn't get to speak to defend myself and they watched my life, what would they say?

I treasure. I think of those speed up cameras. They used to show plants growing on discovery channel.

Yeah, me too. I could, man, I could get in trouble with YouTube on the, like just, just watching the plants are so amazing.

But what I'm getting at is what you treasure low. I'll move my hands. It wasn't in front of my face.

I don't care that it's in the podcast. You see what I did there? I'm going to move this one. I'm like, Hannah, I have to talk to me.

What do we treasure? Like what, what do you treasure? Um, what is your time invested in?

And then if I can make one more connection, um, and any of y 'all ladies can speak to this, take the next connection.

Jesus said, where your treasure is, what you're storing up, because what is a treasure chest? What you store up, there will be your heart also.

Well, then Jesus said, and out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.

We often like to say, yeah, that just slipped out. I didn't mean that. And what you really mean is,

I regret saying that. If it came out of your mouth at first and it's your heart. So where your treasure is, there'll be a heart also.

And that comes out in what you do and what you say and how you treat people. Whenever I'm out of line,

I think, what have I been treasuring up? What have I been storing up? Because that's, what's going to come out and what

I do and what I say. So that, that definitely helps me in that area. I think going back to the gym bros, now that I've put together what you're talking about, um, like you were saying, you know, where your treasure is, that's your heart also.

Countless times throughout the Bible, it talks about arrogance and pride and the lust of the eyes. And when you're the gym bro, that all you care about is getting in your exercise and eating your protein so that you can gain muscle.

At first, I'm sure it can, it can be okay. But then as you see these results and you start going, man,

I look really good, man, how much farther can I take this? It can very quickly go from,

I want to be healthy and gain muscle to, you know, better my work life or, you know, be able to play with my kids longer to, man,

I'm starting to look really good. I should keep doing this. And then all of a sudden, it's like, like you said, your intentions shift from,

I was just doing this to be healthy to now I just really want to look good. And I want to be able to have bragging rights of I benched, you know, 250 today, you know, it can very quickly turn.

And so that's why I think it's important to prioritize your spiritual life with that, because that's where your humility comes from.

So like, if you can, if you can exercise and do all these things and like, you know, get hit new PRs, that's great as long as there's humility.

And where do we get our humility from, from the word of God? PR is personal record. Yeah, sorry.

That's okay. I was like, I only learned that because my husband was in the gym for a while. And he told me about how much he was able to squat and all that stuff.

He is not, he was never a gym bro growing up. If you knew my husband back in high school, he was like the skater guy.

So he still takes some physical fitness. I will say it. I'm pretty sure he wasn't actually skating.

He had a skateboard, but he wasn't like, I don't think I ever saw him actually skate. The guy that used to wear the tap out shirts, but no one did.

Saying this all out of love, but no, it was a big deal for him when he did start doing all this stuff.

And like, he would send me pictures of him doing his RDLs, Roman, Romanian deadlifts. There it is.

But he would work out with Pastor Josiah and, you know, they used to live together and stuff before like we all got married.

And he was like, he loved, he still misses working out with you guys and stuff, but it was so good for him.

He had more energy and he felt better about himself. And he had a lot of fun doing it.

And so like, you know, talking about the intention of like, there are certain things, you know, like after you have a child, like your body does not look the same as it did with each child.

It looks different. And so that was one of my motivators wanting to work out. And so as you're saying all of that, just a minute ago of like, what's your intention?

I'm like, you know, I just want to feel better about myself. And like, I want to feel stronger because like my husband will ask me to do something.

We have these food storage bins in our garage for like our flour, rice and sugar and all that.

I could not get the lid down without using all of my body weight. I'm petite if you can't tell.

You mean pick it up? No, like push down the lid to get it to snap. So I literally had to sit my whole body weight to get it to snap.

Oh, OK. And like I said, I'm a petite woman. So I was like a hundred pounds of weight that I needed and I could not get it with my hands.

It took me like ten minutes to even get the lid off. I'm like, this is ridiculous. So this was your turning point. You said, all right, it's over.

I need to work out. But that's the thing. I want to be stronger. I want to be able to do more stuff with my son. And since I've worked out, it's even just been a month,

I have had more energy to play with him. And that has been so fun. Well, let me tell you something. You keep lifting that boy, you don't need to lift any weight.

He's a chunk. No, he's not. Literally, he's gained one pound in the last three months. I'm kind of like, is that normal?

He's low on the percentile. He sure feels like he's a chunk. But all of that to say, it's like your intentions change.

But then since I have been and this is just like a personal testimony, it's like I have been working out.

I've noticed changes to my body and I'm like, I like that. I want this to keep getting better. But I was an athlete in high school, like all growing up,

I did like soccer and basketball and then track was my sport in high school. And I was a sprinter and I loved doing it.

And they put me on long jump at like some point. And so like I always wanted to do more and do more. And I loved feeling the way that I felt in like eighth grade year.

Like I was ripped because we had basketball in the fall and then track in the spring. Like I have never had better looking legs in my entire life than when

I was in the eighth grade. And so like all of that to say, it's like I felt good about that. But now it's I just,

I'm very intentional about the things because I know how my mind works.

Like I just, I know myself and I'm like, if I do too much, then it's going to turn into idolatry, like you said.

And so like having that mindset of it's like, it's okay to feel good in your skin. Like we talked about like the body positivity thing.

It's okay to feel comfortable in your skin, but if it's unhealthy, then it's not good for you. Like scripture speaks about that.

I don't know if y 'all have anything about that that you want to mention, but that's just like my own personal testimony with wanting to do the things that I want to do.

And then like having that change of like, oh, I do like the way that I am looking because of this. And I do feel stronger and like,

I do want to do more of this and all of that. So well, a lot of that's like how our bodies were designed to be too.

If you think about labor, right, exactly. We were not made to like, we were not created to have everything done for us.

We were created to do it ourselves. I mean, look at, you know, how, where we are today as a society did not just pop up.

People actually like manual labor, built these things, you know, by hand. And that's how, in my opinion, it was designed to be.

And so in order to do that, you have to have some sort of physical abilities because you have to be able to build things, to lift things, to work eight hours a day, you know, to do all these like hard labor things.

And so if you don't have that and you find that you're struggling with that, exercise is where you need to go.

So that's like a positive part of it. And you know, the question is like, should we do that? The answer to me is yes, you should.

Because that's how we were designed to do. We were designed for hard labor. So what would we say to the people who are struggling with slothfulness, like the apathy, just not wanting to do anything?

Because I feel like that's a big thing in our culture today. Because like we were just talking about, you know, like when I was working 40 hours a week picking up my child from daycare and like doing all this stuff, like by the time that I got home from work,

I'm like, I don't feel like, by the time that your child goes to bed, like I'll just even take it that much further.

I have a moment to just like breathe and just like sit by myself for like an hour and I don't want to do anything else.

But I'm not, you know, in that aspect, it's like I wasn't taking care of my body. I was like literally just like running it rampant.

And then I did, I felt like, I know me, like I was lazy within those moments because I'm like, I want to work out and I have the energy to do it, but I'm like, don't want to.

Did you have the energy? But also I did. I know you're like, well, I'm just trying to advocate for moms.

A lot of little kids. Okay. There's, there's a little bit of, you have to be reasonable. But I was like, I had one child.

You have four. Okay. But I had one child at one time. They started, they came one at a time. They didn't come all at once, but you did say something.

You said when you exercise, you actually had more energy. So there is that cycle, right?

And I knew that you build up the serotonin and all these things that these chemical things that happen, right? And then you, you're actually filling that energy tank back up when you exercise.

And so it gives you more energy for the next day. You sleep better. All of these things that happen chemically and physiologically. And I have noticed that I have been sleeping better.

Right. I don't wake up as much in the night. And I will tell you, my husband can attest to that because I used to wake up in the middle of the night thinking our child was in the bed with us and that he was rolling off of the bed.

So I would wake up grabbing my husband and like pulling him like towards me. And my husband would wake up and it's like, what is going on?

And so he is like, I have not done that since I have started working out. That's good. Because I'm actually sleeping right.

Because I'm actually sleeping better. But all of that to say, we do need to give grace to new mothers. Well, and that's,

I'm saying like first, well, and that, and I agree with that because it's like just, especially that first year, if you are nursing, like all of those things, like you're still learning how to be a mom, like infants are very difficult.

Like, you know, we talk about like sometimes you just have hard babies. Sometimes your baby doesn't want to sleep.

Sometimes your baby is really colicky or like whatever. It's like that first year is like really about survival or like depending on what type of child you have.

And so it's good to have grace with yourself. But it's like, let's talk about, you know, the dads, for example.

You know, like you work, like we, you know, your husband is a firefighter, EMT. So he's like three days on both, you know, every other day, three days on, then he has a four day where he has a break and stuff.

And so sometimes he's running calls all night. Does he work out on those days where he's been running calls on it?

Why does he choose to do that? That is his outlet. So a lot of people use exercise for many different things.

And for my husband, it is his outlet. That's how he de -stresses. That's how he settles it.

Like I'll even remember like we'll be texting. It'll be 930 at night and he'll have been running all day and he'll say,

I'm so exhausted. And I'll say, well, go to bed. And he'll go, I will. I'm going to get in a quick workout first, because if he did not do that quick workout at 930 at night, he wouldn't sleep as good.

He wouldn't be able to settle his mind in or like get rid of the stress of the day. And I think that's healthy to do that.

Like if that is your outlet and that's what you need. Some people, their outlet is I need to sit down and read a couple chapters of a book before I go to bed.

And that's okay too. It's just find your outlet. Just don't let that outlet become idolatry.

Don't put it above the important things in life. Right. You know, moderation, for sure. Right. Because like when you talk about this body positivity thing that I just learned about, the first word that popped in my mind was hedonism.

Like we're all talking about like pleasure being the highest good. Who cares if that pleasure is I'm 500 pounds and I'm eating

Big Macs, but that's pleasurable to me. So I'm healthy. I'm happy. That's not true.

Like on in any realm, whether you're talking about medically, biblically, like it's just not true.

So I just think, but it's their truth. Right. Right. That's their truth. Right.

I think the aesthetics have changed so much. Well, maybe they're, we don't need it.

You don't need it. Michiganders don't need it. I checked. Michiganders.

I thought so. Yeah. Yeah. For real. She lives right there. In the hands.

Wait, you're going to put your thumb out. There you go. No, your thumb's all cramped up. Because the camera angle. In the mitten.

Oh, I see your thumb. I just made that up. I was not doing it right. It's not there. It's here. That's where I'm going.

Like a Tennessean. 200 miles distance. Okay. That's fine. Depending on the length of your palm.

Like, come on. Come on. As you were saying. I grew up in this little place. She was not a youper.

No, I was not a youper. She was a troll. She lived under the bridge. They have like their own language. It's the weirdest thing, man.

I need education. I've worked with a lot of Michiganders. Michiganders anyway, as you were saying. As I was saying before I busted myself up.

Aesthetics have changed so much, right? We're talking about your truth and your body positivity on the one end.

Self -care. Self -care. All that. But also the other end where you're thinking, you're talking about models. You mentioned some of the models.

So thin. So. Anorexic. Yes. If you will. Yes. And that was something that I ran into actually quite a bit growing up.

I didn't experience it myself. I had some healthy parents and healthy relationship. Well, but you were in ballet.

So that was kind of the physique, like the dancer's physique. Right. And I was a chunky kid. And so I always felt left out.

I always felt on the outside because I didn't fit that aesthetic. Thankfully, I had healthy people around me that didn't force me or even suggest that I would pursue any of the disorders, that disordered eating or anything like that.

But I did experience some disordered exercise, especially in college, because there's an aesthetic.

There's a sort of a physique that's required to appear to fit in with your peers, especially in dance.

And it's interesting that you're talking about how this aesthetic has changed. It's changed in the dance world too. There's so many people who are like, it doesn't matter how big or small

I am. I'm flexible. I can dance and all this stuff. And it's just, it grinds my gears because it's just unnecessary.

I feel like, yes, you can dance. Sure, that's fine. But you're not going to meet a beauty standard of the theater.

But they do have companies that are all inclusive. And that's cool. That's fine. My point is,

I guess, it's interesting how culture has shifted sort of to anything goes.

Everyone's included. Trophy for everyone sort of mentality versus where we can see a person who looks healthy, who moves well, who has sort of an air about them, where they're confident and they're in control of their body.

I think that's attractive. And I think that's been the attractive standard. I mean, you look at Greek statues and all that stuff.

That's been the standard for so long. And all of a sudden, we're just like, throw it all out the window. Whatever you want to do, your truth, your version of healthy is.

It's a little scary to me. And it's not just for the aesthetic purpose. Obviously, I think that there's something we can recognize someone who is taking good care of themselves, right?

It's not about how they look, necessarily. That's just sort of the fruit of it. Yeah, right. And it's committed, because if you're committed to whatever physical exercise you're doing, whether it's dance or martial arts or whatever, you're automatically going to have like those results, like those positive results.

If you're actually doing it like you're supposed to, you're going to lose weight, or you're going to gain muscle, or you're going to get more flexible and better at dance, like if you commit yourself.

So if you say, anything goes, and I want to be a dancer, but I don't care how

I look or how flexible I am, I'm not going to, I'm not committed. I'm not going to make it. Yeah, like you're not a good dancer.

Right. And I think that, because if you've been with us at this point, you notice we're trying to find the right balance.

There is an extreme on one side, there's extreme on the other. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9, do you not know,

I'm in verse 24, do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize?

I do find it ironic. So there are losers. To Michelle's point, we have Christians that would disagree with Paul's take on that.

That's intriguing, by the way. Only one gets the prize, so run that you may obtain it.

Now obviously he's referring to the Christian running the race, but he's using the analogy of an actual race. Verse 25, every athlete exercises self -control in all things.

They do it to receive a perishable crown or perishable wreath, but we have an imperishable one.

So I don't run aimlessly. I do not box as one beating the air. In other words, I aim to hit somebody,

I aim to run a race, right? I discipline my body and keep it under control.

Now why? What Paul is stating, he disciplines his body and keeps it under control.

Why? Lest after preaching to others, I myself should be disqualified. So there's a goal, and referring to athletics as a goal, and you want to win, and you should want to win, but everything in balance.

Or Michelle said everything in moderation. There's always, with most things in life, there's almost always a balance, and it's our job to find that.

So when it comes to exercise, when it comes to competition especially, I think we should encourage ourselves to do our best to not have an attitude of,

I don't care if I come in last place, I'm just as much of a winner as the first person.

No, you're not. No, you're a loser. But also, your value is not based on your winning or losing, right?

And so one of the books that I read my son, it's like a accounting book, and so it has different number of items on each page, and it's like a rhyming book.

So it says, a group of six is fun to run a race, except for the one who gets sixth place.

And so it's like, you're a loser. But that's my thing. I love competition, obviously.

Pastor loves it, too, because he cheats, so he can win things. You saw it last week, folks.

If you saw it, give this video a thumbs up. We love it. Lowell doctored that video up. It was fabulous.

We have the best guys on our team. He has five angles showing me playing with Legos, as if that proves

I cheated. I'm just stacking it up. I'm playing with Legos over here. Playing with what? Legos? Legos?

Legos. What is a Lego? You say it again. Lego? A Lego. What do you say?

It's a Lego. Lego. Is she making fun of the way I said it? Yes, I think so. Yes. So you piped in right there just to do that.

Of course I did. Legos. Legos. Correct. And then what I said? No. Legos.

You added a Y. Legos. Been hanging out with too many Michiganians.

I say Legos. You say Legos? I say Legos. Like L -E -G. Yes, like Legs.

She said Michiganians. I'm going to start calling you that. Sounds better. Michiganian.

Legos. Legos. Legos. Legos. What's the fruity drink from the vending machine?

F -A -Y -G -O. Fago. Fago or? Oh, no.

F -A -Y -G -O. Like the grape soda ones. Fago. In all the public schools? Yeah.

It's not Fanta anymore. I was about to say Fanta. What is Fago? It's like the one that the kids at public schools pass the free lunches to go to the vending machine and buy.

Is it Fago? I didn't go to school. I don't know what you're talking about. I was a teacher. So you see all the kids going to get the sodas and stuff.

But anyway. Is it Fago? I think it's F -A -Y -G -O. It's like Fanta but it's a different brand.

Is that what you're talking about? Yes. And I think she's saying I was saying Lego like this. Yeah, you were. Is there a Y in Lego?

No. Is there an A in Lego? No. I apologize. Leg. I'm glad I'm not the only one that likes to rip that on.

Yeah, I see that. It's totally unnecessary. I didn't even do anything. It's a valid point. I don't know why.

It's just so easy. Yeah, that's what it is. You do. It's just so easy but we love you for it.

You know, I shared this example once before. In fact, I think I just mentioned it to Michelle before we started.

Just a practical thing for you. When Jesus said if your right hand offends you, cut it off.

You know, whatever it was. Using a very graphic metaphor for what we should do in combating sin.

There are certain things that we got to do to just cut them out of our life, right? But there's also,

I thought about this years ago and it's never left me. In the book of Hebrews chapter 12 verse 2 it says, let us lay aside every weight and sin that so easily ensnares.

And there's two categories of things you're supposed to lay aside. Every weight and sin that so easily ensnares.

Why? So that we may run the race that is set before us. Notice God's sovereignty.

The race is already set before us. But I'm teaching on Hebrews twice today so it's fresh in my mind.

But my point is there are things that we have to lay aside that are not sinful in and of themselves. But to run the race we need to lay aside.

Lay aside every sin and weight. So maybe before we say, well there's nothing wrong with X, Y, or Z.

This is hopefully a practical thing for you. Not just exercise. It's not just is there anything wrong with it.

Does it keep me from doing right? And that's a personal. Oh 100%. Because like the same thing for me wouldn't be the same thing.

I'll give an example right now that I would never tell anyone else is wrong for them. But I'll tell you it's wrong for me.

I just told Michelle this. I used to drink two or three cups of coffee a day. Well a few.

Let me tell you how bad that affected me. No I'll tell you how much. That's it for me.

For me let me tell you. Now I drink it incredibly strong when I make it. Like very very strong when

I make it. If it's not as black as that leather I probably don't want to drink it. Except for caramel.

But my point is this. I went to fast one day. And I made it like half the day.

And I had such a incredible headache from the lack of caffeine. Because I was drinking a bunch of cokes too.

And I just stopped for a second. I said are you kidding me? This was a long time ago. So I don't know. I'm 24 years old and I can't make it a day without a little bean to give me a caffeine

I need. This is ridiculous. And so I didn't have any caffeine for three weeks just to put myself in check.

And so now I only drink with very rare exceptions one cup of coffee a day. So that it's not really about the coffee.

So that I'm never so dependent on caffeine right. So like every now and then

I'll go a day without it just to make sure I can. And then I'm good to go do you know whatever. Like I'm a rock star.

That's obviously not anything in and of itself sinful. But if it keeps me from even thinking straight.

If it keeps me from being able to fast or pray. That's you know.

Let's slow my roll a little bit. That's just that's for me. That's not for everyone else. That's for me. So I think there are things that we can lay aside that are not wrong in and of themselves.

But sometimes we need to lay them aside. You were talking about an hour of TikTok earlier. Not that it's wrong in and of itself.

By the way I'm kind of with Michelle. God also did created the Sabbath. But for rest is my point.

So you're coming. Yeah well right. So my point being is there's always a healthy balance with all of these things.

We need to be we need to have non -negotiables. But once we remove those non -negotiables everything else the goal is to find the balance.

So that's my last thing on that. Well I think that's a good way to end unless you guys have something else you want to mention. No that's great.

Absolutely. Hannah what is your middle name? Rebecca. Is it really? Hannah Rebecca.

Such a biblical tone. I love it. Michelle is? Marie. Michelle Marie.

That's my daughter's middle name. Marie. Her name's my middle name. Michelle is your middle name.

Yeah and I feel like I knew that. You knew that. What's Lowell's middle name? I forgot. Start with an

A. It does? Remember that's we were talking about that this last time and you're like I remember it starts with an

A. Erin. Erin. It's not Erin. The female way to spell Erin is E. The male way is A.

So it's Erin. I really like that name for a girl. If we were gonna have a girl my husband's like absolutely not. E -R -I -N.

My husband's like absolutely not. I'm like okay. And then we had a boy so it wasn't a problem. Wow this was gonna be a point of contention.

Lucky we had all right. Landon, Lowell, anything else? I think we're good. So look

Lowell has been excellent at consistently posting these on Saturdays. Yes. Like, share, subscribe, all that stuff.

I literally just watched 10 minutes of last week's episode of Lowell. Were you cheated?

Of Lowell. I'm just glad we have proof. Me playing with blocks and me playing with these blocks he determines that that somehow is cheating in the game that had nothing to do with blocks.

At any rate there's that. Anna, we've got I don't know. We have one more episode.

We are actually taking a week off because this week is Thanksgiving. Okay. So we will not have an episode air the week after next.

So this Saturday we'll have one. But and then we're taking a break and then we will come back in December with an episode about Christmas and that's where I'm leaving that.

I cannot wait for that one. So I'm excited for that one. We'll probably take second half of December off and come back

January or somewhere around there for the next season. Yeah. So there's that. Everyone good? Excellent.

Sorry. One last thing. If you have any ideas for next season, please, if you go to church with us, send me a text, catch me out in the hallway.

If you don't post a comment, let us know because we would love to do some listener questions.

Didn't that sound like she said, let it snow? Let it snow. Say, let us know. Let us know.

Let us. I promise you it sounds like she We like, we just like to answer questions or do topics that you guys are actually interested in.

So please just let us know. All right, guys, time for our sign off. Until next time.

Oh no. Did she not do it? She did. I didn't know. I didn't know.

What do I do? Do not edit this out. No. Every time I say that he does.

It's for the Lego thing, isn't it? Oh, I know why she doesn't. Because of the Lego thing. This shows how often she watches the podcast.

She doesn't watch the podcast or any podcast. Hey, sometimes we have to not do things because it keeps us from running.

It's on Spotify. You don't have to watch it. I think we found out last time we tried to tape this, that she actually didn't know that a podcast, uh, is actually also is.

I figured with that being nine weeks ago, she would have remedied that and watch our podcast. Yeah. You I'm so sorry.

I don't believe that. I believe I have other priorities. Okay. Because you're defending her because I'm her friend and I know what she's going through for me.

With blocks. She also has a cheater. All right. Hannah, do you want to lead us on the sign off?

I don't know how to, but I will say until next time deuces. Okay. Are you ready? All right.