Can Women Preach? and the Word of Faith | Apologetics Live 0035

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with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the

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Christian Podcast of Mutiny. All right, we are live.

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Apologetics Live. We're glad to be here. Sorry about the late start, folks.

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I hope everybody can hear me okay. Folks in chat, just let me know if you can hear. We were having some difficulties with speakers and things like that.

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So just give a quick shout out in the chat if you guys can hear us.

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I'm Andrew Rappaport from Striving for Eternity Ministries. And I guess just as we got started,

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I see a thing that says Hangout on the Air is live. Hangout on the Air is going away later this year.

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So maybe that's what the problem is. Maybe the problem is that they're getting rid of our hangouts.

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I don't know. But we have a special guest for tonight.

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Many of you will know the name. It is Justin Peters. And there's some applause there for Justin.

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And John has his hands up in the air in praise. So he's he's happy you're here, Justin. That's funny.

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I'm not sure I've ever been given canned applause before. We can do it again. For Justin, you know, actually, we should we should do more of this sound for Justin when we mentioned his name.

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So we feel like we're in heaven because Justin is here. I'm looking at myself on this.

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My phone's kind of tilted up and I'm just realizing it looks like I have a halo around my head because of the Nah. Yeah, no, that's a good effect.

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That's a good effect. You know, that's not you know,

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I did I did a an interview with Todd Friel and didn't realize the whole time that the way the light reflected it

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I had the same thing. And I was like, I didn't realize it till I watched the video afterwards.

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I was like, Oh, that's bad. All right, well, we're finally live.

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We've spent the last half an hour trying to figure out Google Hangouts and some of the technology and figure out why

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Google hates us. I'm convinced of it. But they they're probably going to yet again move to something totally different and not tell us and we'll have to figure out something, how to make it work.

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I guess they're going to as I'm looking at this, they're going to a new thing called YouTube slash live streaming slash webcam because that's where it directed me.

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I wonder if that would work for you, Justin on your Mac. Yeah, I wonder. That would be worth a try.

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But I should send that to you. We could try to see if that'll work on your Mac just for fun.

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But um, all right. Try that. We could try that on your Mac with the thing

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I just sent you. But okay, so we're gonna try to do this.

03:32

This show a little bit discombobulated with the fact that we had just the way that things started here.

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So folks, thank you for those of you who have been waiting those of you who came in.

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Appreciate it. Know that we got a late start. And I am sorry about that.

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We wanted to make sure that we can get things working. Oh, no, Matt saying he cannot hear

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Justin. That's not good. All right, well, we're gonna have to see.

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I wonder, I'm really wondering if we need to just move away from Google Hangouts altogether.

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I think they keep moving to Yeah, at some point from now on. Yeah. Matt, if you could just go ahead and maybe bump out and then come back in.

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That's what seemed to work for me. Or either that try using a PC or laptop or something of that nature.

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Just see if you can get in. And folks who want to join, you can go to ApologeticsLive .org

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and the links to join are there so that you can come on in and ask any questions.

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But first, before we get to questions, I guess some preliminary stuff I should mention.

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This is a podcast that you can hear. We do this live, but it turns into a podcast called Apologetics Live.

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It's part of the Christian podcast community, and it is Ministry of Striving for Eternity.

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Justin Peters is from a ministry called, shoot, what's, help me out there.

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What's the name of Justin's ministry? It's such a hard name for me to remember. JustinIWent .com?

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Oh, yeah, JustinIWent .com is the website. That's really good. Yes. Justin, help me out.

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What's the name of your ministry again? It is, I got to come up with a new name.

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It's Justin Peters Ministries. I'm really not that narcissistic.

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I'm just not creative. I don't know. I should have spent more time trying to come up with a name.

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You know, there's a real problem when you have Justin Peters Ministries. It's going to be hard for anybody else to kind of take over unless their name is

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Justin Peters. That's true. I guess I do have a little built -in insurance on that.

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As does Votie Balcombe, because he calls his Votie Balcombe Ministries. Yeah, but he's got enough kids.

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One of them's got to be named Votie, because he has to have run out of names by now. He's got what, nine kids,

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I believe? I don't know. He's got quite the quiver full.

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He's got an entire softball team. All right. All right. John says that your ministry should be

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Clouds Without Waters Ministries. Clouds With Water Ministries.

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Well, for folks who don't know who Justin Peters is, you are well known for your

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DVD series, Clouds Without Waters, and it's a series you do on Word of Faith.

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But you and I have been talking a lot about a different topic recently.

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We were down in the Philippines. We were dealing with this issue of women preachers. There were some interesting reactions while we were in the

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Philippines. You and I did a podcast together. There were some interesting reactions to that. And I recently, my latest podcast

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I did on, Does God Allow Women Pastors, Preachers? And I got to tell you,

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I don't think I've gotten so, I got a lot of hate mail. But what I found more interesting is the hate mail.

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Most of the hate mail I got were from people who practice homosexuality. Oh, that was very interesting, because one of the conclusions

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I made of why I think this is such a serious issue is the fact that I think that when you allow, when you reinterpret the

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Word of God to allow women to be preachers or pastors,

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I think it's, you lose the argument to argue against homosexuality.

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And I think, like I said, I think it's a stepping stone for homosexuality in the church. Absolutely. Well, not to interrupt you, but just as to support that point, look at look at where the

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United Methodist Church is. You know, they are, if the vote recently to embrace homosexuality, homosexual marriage had just left, been left to United Methodist Church in the

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United States, it would have, it would have passed overwhelmingly. It was just more conservative

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Methodists in other parts of the world that that kind of tipped the balance against it. But United Methodist Church started ordaining women and putting them in as pastors long before they got to the point that they're at now.

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And yet look at where they are now. Most UNC churches here in the States would would embrace that.

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So you're absolutely right. You know, it's interesting, Matt. And by the way, I should let folks know, because some people may be wondering, like, where's

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Matt Sleck? So Matt Sleck is in Manti, Utah. It is Manti, Utah. They do this event every year that is a pageant where they reenact the

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Book of Mormon. And there's thousands of Mormons that go to that. And there are over 300

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Christians evangelizing out there right now. And Matt has gone to join them.

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And but when I told Matt what we were discussing, he gave me an interesting statistics. He had looked it up and he said 80 percent of the denominations that accept female preachers within two generations accept homosexuality.

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And I think it's because once you let culture interpret the word of God, then culture is going to do that.

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And now you have to accept everything else. You lose the argument. Jason Manning is joking, obviously, but he says he hears that Joyce Meyers is trying to get in here to ask you some questions,

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Justin, and I would love that. Yes, I said that's what

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I said. We wish it was true. Beth Moore, if you're out listening. What am

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I saying? Of course, she's not. She she's only in the echo chamber. But we're going to talk about her because there's a very important thing that happened this week with Beth Moore.

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But let's start for folks, Justin, you and I both take the same position that a woman cannot be a pastor of a church, cannot preach in the church.

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So why don't you explain the position that we both hold to for folks that maybe this is the first time hearing it, give an overview of it.

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And then let's start talking about some of the specific things, especially what happened this week with with an open letter to Beth Moore.

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Sure. Yeah, there's two different positions, basically, Andrew. One is complementarianism.

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The other is egalitarianism. If you're an egalitarian, you believe that men and women can and should fulfill the exact same roles, both in the home and in the church, including that of the pastor.

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If you are a complementarian, as you and I are, we believe that men and women are of equal value before God.

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Galatians 328 is crystal clear about that. We are of equal value before God. We are both both genders created in the image of God.

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But God has designed or designed men and women to fulfill different roles, different functions in both the home and the church.

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And God has designed it that men are to be the spiritual leaders in both the home and the church.

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And positions of spiritual authority in the church are reserved by God only for men.

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So this is not a male versus female issue. This is not trying to oppress women or control them in any way.

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Your argument that you're making—and I agree with it, I'm just for the sake of the audience—the argument you're making is that this is an issue of how you interpret

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Scripture and what does Scripture say, correct? That's correct. Right. What is your authority?

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And if you say your authority is the Word of God, the Bible, then you have to come down on the complementarian side.

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The Bible is crystal clear on these issues. You just—there's no amount, Andrew, no amount of hermeneutical gymnastics that you can do to come up with any kind of a valid biblical case that women can hold positions of spiritual authority in the church or they can be a pastor or an elder, same thing.

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But yeah, there's just no amount of hermeneutical gymnastics you can go through and pass the common sense test to make that argument.

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But that's what egalitarians try to do. And so the interesting thing with this—and let me just pull the

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Scripture up because you're saying you're making a claim we want to support it, right? This is 1 Timothy 2, 12 to 14,

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I think one of the strongest texts on this subject. There's another in 1 Corinthians that says a similar thing.

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But Paul—and let me express this—Paul, by the inspiration of the

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Holy Spirit, in other words, the Holy Spirit wrote this. It's an instructional letter when it comes to hermeneutics, the art and science of interpretation.

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There's different genres, have different styles of writing. And this is instructional.

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So this is not something like the book of Genesis where it's historical narrative and it's accurately recording what did happen.

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So the fact that Paul says, I do not permit, doesn't mean that's Paul's opinion apart from the

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Holy Spirit. This is Paul giving instruction by inspiration of the Holy Spirit for the church on how to function.

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OK, because a lot of people will try to say this is just Paul. It's just Paul. It's not Jesus. He says,

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I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man.

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Rather, she is to remain quiet. Now, here's the key. People don't like what was just read, but verse 13 starts with four.

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That is a purpose clause. It tells us why that instruction is. So why is it that Paul would say by inspiration of Holy Spirit that a woman is not to teach or have exercise over a man, but to remain quiet?

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For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became the transgressor.

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So this goes back not to culture. It's very clear the argument for this instruction goes back to creation.

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Adam was formed first, Eve sinned first. So it's the creation order, sin order. So we can't argue that this is a cultural issue.

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In the very next chapter, he's going to argue for pastors that they're to be men. I mean, husband and wife, you can't have a woman do that.

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So that's kind of hard for a woman to do. Well, nowadays, I guess it isn't so hard because you have plenty of guys winning track meets for females.

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So. I don't know what to do. Yeah, how judgmental of you,

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Andrew. Yeah. Did you see that in the news, the high school, there's a bunch of high school girls that have now they've done put in federal court, they've sued.

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Because at a federal level, because the fact that all these men are entering high school female sports and getting all the scholarships.

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Yeah, yeah. For them, they should. They should. You know, I mean, these guys that are like,

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OK, for a couple of years, I'll run as a girl and I get into college. I get a free ride.

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I just got to run on the girls track team. OK. Yeah, but I get a free education.

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You know, it's the end of female sports, this nonsense. I mean, you know, why not turn you know, why not have men decide that they want to join the

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WNBA and, you know, feel the

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Jordan can make a comeback. I love it.

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I love it when science comes back to to bite liberals, you know, and they say they're so big on science.

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Well, here's some science for you, either male or female. There's no in between.

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You're one of the other. And, you know, you're an X chromosome or a Y chromosome X or Y.

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Yeah, yeah. I wanted to get back to First Sympathy, too, because you you you kind of nailed it.

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And reminding me of the Just Taking podcast with Daryl Harrelson and Virgil Walker. I don't know if you guys heard the last that the recent episode, but they hit her out of the park.

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And they talked about this very same reason about women teaching. And at the end there, he makes a point,

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Daryl makes a point saying, did God say you should not murder and do you not understand what that means?

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Right. And did he not say you should not lie? OK, so what part of but I do not allow a woman to teach.

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Confusing to them, you know, and I don't understand why they this is why

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I'm looking at my most recent Andrew Rappaport's Rappaport, I dealt with it. I went through all of the arguments that they came with.

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And Justin, you know them, right? Phoebe and Chloe and all these others they claim are apostles and they're they're pastors, they're leaders of the church.

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You know, oh, the church is meeting in someone's house. That must mean she's the pastor. It doesn't say that, but that's like saying, you know,

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Michelle Obama lived in the White House. Therefore, she must be the president. You know, no, it doesn't.

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There's plenty of people actually that are in the White House that are not the president. Right. It's it's it's not none of not one of those passages pointed out that any of those women were actually pastor or preaching.

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Every one of them, actually, like you look at Priscilla, Aquila was always there for for everyone who wants to say that because the gospel was shared with Apollos, that it must have been

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Priscilla. I could say no. When we look at that, I would say she was absolutely silent, said not a word.

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Her husband said everything. Yeah. The text leads me. I mean, if you're going to read into the scriptures,

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I could read that in as just as well. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

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And yeah, they use these they use these examples, another one like the women at the tomb, the women at the tomb.

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They were the first ones to preach the gospel, they say. Well, no, they weren't preaching.

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They were reporting what they had seen. It's not like they were opening up the text and doing exposition.

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They were just reporting what they had just witnessed, A, and B, they weren't in a church.

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The church had not even yet been been established. So, you know, it goes back to what

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I said earlier. You've got to do some incredible hermeneutical gymnastics and you've got to do some serious eisegesis reading into the text, a meaning that just simply is not there.

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Yeah, I mean, it was interesting because, you know, they'll they'll bring out these different passages and they'll say, well, you know, if someone is if a woman is treated well by Jesus, that must mean that they could preach.

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How many people? Let me just ask, Justin, in your church, you know, I've been to your church.

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There's what, like two, three hundred, four hundred people there now? Oh, no, no.

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Well, about two, two forty on a Sunday. Yeah. How many pastors are there?

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We have four elders, four elders. So does that mean the other two hundred plus people other than those four are being oppressed because they're not pastors?

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Well, I can tell you, I'm not an elder at my church and I sure don't feel oppressed. So so the fact that you're not a pastor doesn't mean that there's oppression automatically, does it?

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Absolutely not. No, absolutely not. And I don't think a single woman in our church would say that she feels oppressed.

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Absolutely not. Now, so so because the argument they usually do is that if you do not allow a woman to preach and Beth Moore made this argument,

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I mean, I find this amazing. All the people that got on me on Twitter for commenting to Beth Moore about her being at a pulpit when she talks about the sexual abuse, she actually is now saying that the sexual abuse may be caused by the fact that they don't let women preach.

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Like this is the oppression. Unreal. So yeah, so so just appalling, absolutely appalling.

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So, I mean, well, there's no time she doesn't jump on anything to use it to push her agenda.

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And we're going to we'll spend some time if folks don't come in and we'll spend our whole time we could talk about this.

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But this is the thing I do want to first start off with is the argument that people make that somehow women are being oppressed, yet there are qualifications for a pastor in First Timothy three and Titus one.

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The men are men being. Have you heard this argument at all that men are being oppressed because they're not allowed?

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Not every man is allowed to be a pastor. They're not qualified. Not everyone's qualified. Is anyone arguing that the men are being oppressed?

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No, I haven't heard anybody saying that. No, but the women are. Yeah, but the women are.

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Right. Funny how that works. Yeah, I know, right. All right.

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So so. We're you know, we take a position that women shouldn't be pastors, they shouldn't be preaching.

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I have seen this as a very emotional issue, Justin. I've been

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I've been leery, very leery. Um. That that.

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Open my email. So because every email that I've been getting ever since the podcast this

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Sunday has been blasting me for different things. So I was kind of glad, though, to get this one,

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Justin. This was an email that I got just last night. It said I benefited incredibly from your podcast.

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It is the most organized and comprehensive yet concise treatment on the subject that I have come across.

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Before listening to it, I was not confident at all with my stance. Not only have

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I made up my mind on it, but I am now confident to discuss it. This was huge to me because I'm surrounded by almost solely by equally easy.

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It's getting the word wrong again. I can never say the word, but where everyone wants it to be equal. I'll give me the word again, not complementarianism, egalitarian, egalitarian, egalitarians most of the time.

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So so here's a guy who's surrounded by egalitarians and he finally feels the confidence to to be able to discuss it and and have the material.

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We hope this this Apologetics Live will do the same for you because we hear a lot of emotional arguments.

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We heard it down in the Philippines, Justin. We've heard it with Beth Moore recently. And I would like to address an issue with Beth Moore.

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I know you you've read the letter that's been out. I know I have. But there is a an open letter to Beth Moore.

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And I will I'll actually have one of the initial signers of that on my podcast for next week.

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Michelle Leslie, she's going to come on. We're going to talk about that letter in some detail. But my question for you,

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Justin, I want to get your your reaction from the open letter that's out there. First off, let's talk about the letter.

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Describe the letter. Describe to me or for really for the audience why you think this letter is so important for her to answer.

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I mean, it's a public letter. It's out there. Anyone can see you can go to Michelle Leslie's website and see it.

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And I'll have the link in the show notes. But why do you think this this open letter to her was important to put out there?

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Why do you think it's important for her to answer? Yes, Andrew, I think this is vitally important.

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I would encourage people that it's on several different ladies website and blog.

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The website that you can go to if you want to sign the letter, put your name to the letter is

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MichelleLeslie .com. And so the letters posted in several different venues.

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But I think it's just this particular website where you can actually affix your signature to it. So go to MichelleLeslie .com.

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But these ladies, it was Michelle Leslie, Elizabeth Prada, Debbie Lynn Caspert, Susan Heck, Martha Peace.

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And I think there's a couple other signatures on it now as well as like original signatories.

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But these ladies have put put this letter out there for and basically the letter, the letter is focused on one issue.

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And that is Beth Moore's views on homosexuality. And I don't have the letter in front of me, but but it basically makes the point, rightly so, that Beth Moore has for several years been openly endorsing and commending

26:10

Jen Hatmaker. Jen Hatmaker is a lady who has come out very much in support of homosexual

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Christians, the notion that homosexuals can be Christians. She's come out in support of homosexual marriage.

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Beth Moore and Jen Hatmaker are very complimentary of one another publicly, so repeatedly, so lavish praise on one another.

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And also Jonathan Merritt. Jonathan Merritt is a young man, relatively young man, who is a who's a homosexual.

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Now, he is admitted to having at least one homosexual encounter. I know from people who know him well, he is a homosexual.

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He will, I was told recently, he will never marry a woman. He just recently, very recently, has, in fact, it's even in this open letter.

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You can go and read the open letter for yourself. But he made a very crude remark to Dr.

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Owen Strand. Dr. Owen Strand has written articles about the biblical view of homosexuality, criticizing the

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Revoice Conference. And he made a comment on Twitter that there is never a reason because he was responding to something that he saw.

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But he said there is never a reason for men to cuddle one another. And then Jonathan Merritt responded to Dr.

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Owen Strand and said, come on, Owen, you can be my little spoon, which is just disgusting.

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I mean, straight men don't say that. So all of that to say, Beth Moore and Jonathan Merritt lavish praise on one another.

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So and Jonathan Merritt is known for his pro homosexual views, calls himself a theological liberal.

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So the question naturally arises, Andrew, if you're if there's this mutual admiration society between Beth Moore and Jen Hatmaker and Jonathan Merritt.

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And you notice that Beth Moore is very quick to to chime in on issues of race, on issues of complementarity slash egalitarian.

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She's more egalitarian. She's very quick in kind of like a me too type thing.

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She's Johnny on the spot, to quote the letter, Johnny on the spot to chime in on these issues. But on homosexuality, she never says anything about it.

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Just complete silence. So you couple her complete silence on that issue with her very visible friendship with pro homosexual people like Jen Hatmaker and Jonathan Merritt.

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And the question naturally arises, well, what does Beth Moore believe about homosexuality?

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And that's what this letter asks her. It's an open letter to Beth Moore detailing all of this stuff and all the everything in there is documented really well.

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So basically, the letter asks Beth Moore, what do you believe about homosexuality? Do you believe homosexuals can be

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Christians? Do you believe homosexuality is a sin? Do you believe unrepentant practicing homosexuals who die in that state, do you believe they go to heaven?

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And so that that's the letter. That's the gist of the letter. It's very simple. It's very straightforward.

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It asks her very easy questions, questions that you and I could that you and I could answer instantly.

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I mean, easily, easy softball questions, you know. And so it's asking her to answer and state her position.

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So I'm very grateful that this letter is out there and we'll see what happens thus far.

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I don't think there's been a response from Beth Moore, but it's getting some traction. A lot of people have signed it.

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At last I looked earlier in the day, something like one hundred and seventy two ladies have said there's over there is right now over one hundred ninety one hundred ninety three.

30:26

There has been there was a she did have a response possibly, though.

30:32

Let me read from a Facebook post that she she has. And I know you're not really a

30:38

Facebook guy, but I had seen this and grabbed it. I could send it to you. But it's from Living Proof Ministries with Beth Moore.

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And it says from Beth, and this is exactly what it says. Beware of Bible beaters void of the

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Holy Spirit, where the Holy Spirit goes, the Holy Spirit shows.

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Now, I'm going to stop there. Does that make sense at all? No, but it rhymes.

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It rhymes. That's what's important. If the blood don't fit, you must acquit.

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Yeah, I mean, it's like people just get into this thing where it just sounds good. So it must be right.

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And that makes no sense. OK, so here's why. Here's why I say it makes no sense.

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The Holy Spirit is present. He's everywhere, there's nowhere that the

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Holy Spirit is not. OK, so he doesn't really go anywhere.

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But let me ask you, where the Holy Spirit goes, the

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Holy Spirit shows. And actually, now that I think about it, what does he show, actually? And how does he show it?

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What did he show it from the word of God, which is what we resort to, you and I, when we argue this point?

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I don't know. All right. Where the Holy Spirit goes, the Holy Spirit shows. If the fruit of the spirit is not evidenced, they can hang

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Bible verses on their limbs all day long. But something's still wrong with that tree.

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Jesus said, you know, a tree by its fruit. We are called by God to be people of both word and and is in all caps and a spirit.

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Yes, yes. We diligently study the scriptures, pour over them in our lives. But if we do not have the love of God in in us and evidence through us, we are no different than those

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Jesus called out in John 5, 37 to 42, quote,

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And the father who sent me has himself testified according concerning me.

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You you have never heard his voice, nor seen his form, nor his word dealt in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.

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You study the scriptures diligently because you think that in them you will have eternal life.

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These are the very scriptures that testify about me. Yet you refuse to come to me and have life.

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I do not accept glory from human beings, but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts, unquote.

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Now, I don't I actually don't know what translation she's using there with the I don't accept glory from human beings.

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I found that interesting. Actually, it got my curiosity. I think I'm going to go try to find out which what translation she was using, because that's kind of interesting.

33:43

I fell in love with the place. Yeah, I do kind of agree with her because, you know, the we are called to be people of the word and the spirit.

33:55

But those two would agree, wouldn't they, Justin? Yes, absolutely.

34:00

The word and the spirit are never in contradiction to one another, obviously. I find that so offensive on so many levels.

34:11

She put this up, apparently. So the letter, the letter went public June 18th,

34:17

Tuesday, June 18th. She put this up yesterday, Wednesday, June 19th.

34:24

So, you know, roughly one day later. And a lot of people are saying this is even though she didn't mention the letter specifically.

34:34

This is almost she almost it's almost certain she has a letter in view here. If that's the case, the passage that she's quoting here,

34:43

John 5, is she if she is when she is, if she's comparing the the ladies who put this letter out to the individuals that Jesus was addressing in John chapter 5,

34:55

Andrew, you know what she's doing? She's calling these ladies unregenerate. That's what she's doing.

35:03

She's calling these ladies lost because Jesus was addressing unregenerate people.

35:09

That is just so offensive on so many levels. Rather than just answer the questions, which, again, are softball questions, easy softball sitting on the tee waiting to be hit, knocked out of the park.

35:21

Rather than do that, she disparages these ladies, calls their motives into question and applying that text to them, calls them unregenerate.

35:31

Well, I think I think the thing that we we end up seeing here is. If anyone was to say if I say that Beth Moore is unregenerate, how many people would come after me from her crowd,

35:44

Andrew, you know what I do with obviously with my clouds without water seminar and I've taken a lot of heat from a lot of criticism over the years from word faith people.

35:55

I can honestly tell you never have I been criticized as vehemently by word faith people as I have by Beth Moore defenders.

36:06

When I say something against Beth Moore, I mean the claws come out and some of the things that have been said of me by Beth Moore's defenders, man, they put anything that a word faith adherent has said about me, puts that in a shade.

36:22

I have never I've never seen the kind of vitriol, even from word faith people as I have from Beth Moore defenders.

36:30

So she came after me. Oh, yeah.

36:35

Oh, yeah. If I if I may, I like to jump in and let you know a little background me. I shared your clouds without waters on my church's

36:45

Facebook page. And I literally I must have had like three other women just ripped me to shreds for sharing your video about this and the truth of it.

36:56

And and and literally it got to the point where the pastor had to go ahead and just delete the entire post because it just got out of hand, you know.

37:04

And not that I'm saying that I have a I go to a heretical church or anything, but I'm just saying that there's a lot of women in there that that do cling to that false teaching.

37:16

And I, you know, my heart is that, you know, I just want to go ahead and correct them out of love. You know,

37:21

I wanted to just go ahead and show them the truth of what they actually teach in their theology.

37:26

And, you know, and unfortunately, you know, they have that that mentality of you can't touch the

37:32

Lord's anointed. You know, we all heard that little phrase over and over and over. So, I mean, yeah,

37:41

I know what you mean. When for some reason, you know, the claws come out when you start touching the anointed.

37:49

Yeah, exactly. I've seen this with her followers. I mean, they really rip into they've ripped into me when

37:57

I've criticized her. And, you know, she is called I think I want to focus on what you said,

38:02

Justin, because she's calling people on regenerate. That's right. OK, she's saying they don't have the

38:08

Holy Spirit. And if anyone was to do that, they would get, you know, with with her.

38:15

But, you know, that is actually what's at stake here. She is putting herself where it is her.

38:21

You either agree with her or you're not saved is the way she lays it out, because what's the standard that she had?

38:28

The standard is her own her own belief. If you don't hold to this, she doesn't support it with scripture. She talks about pouring through the scriptures.

38:35

But, you know, one of the things that's always lacking in her teachings is the scripture.

38:43

Certainly the scripture in any context. I mean, she can yeah, yeah, she'll quote

38:48

Bible verses. I mean, she'll read them. And I've listened to a lot of her teaching. My wife and I both have.

38:55

But ninety nine times out of one hundred. And I really don't say that in hyperbole.

39:01

I say it genuinely. Ninety nine times out of one hundred. She gets the meaning wrong.

39:07

She gets the well, she gets the context wrong. So if you get the context wrong, you get the meaning wrong. And honestly, some of the interpretations that she can come up with with scripture is just mind boggling.

39:18

I don't have the kind of creativity that she does to come up with the interpretation of some of the verses that she will say.

39:26

I'm not that creative. I don't know. Kudos to her for how creative she is. I mean, some of it is just absolutely looney tunes.

39:37

So we I think we recognize you're not that creative. Justin Peter Ministries. Right. Enough said.

39:44

All right. So I'll vouch. I'll vouch for this. You know, there's

39:50

I hate driving in a car with Matt Slick because Matt Slick, I listen, you know, he's he likes like that heavy bass type music.

39:59

So it drives me absolutely bonkers to be in a car with him. But it's a it's a tough call between being in a car with him and being in a car with you, because, you know, being in a car with you,

40:09

I get the choice of you. You have two channels that you have on your your dial, the

40:15

Catholic channel and the word of faith channel. It's like, no, like so I don't want to be in a car with either one of you just for the record.

40:29

Yeah, well, it's a yeah. Yeah. When Kathy and I go on long road trips, that's our entertainment.

40:35

We listen to the Catholic channel and sometimes Joel Osteen, but Joel Osteen gets so repetitive.

40:41

So so so I have added in both James Watkins of the

40:47

Five Solas podcast and also for the first time that I know of, Captain America himself is here.

40:54

Chris Honholz from Voice of Reason Radio. So both of them are here. Hey, Chris. If you guys want to unmute yourself, you're welcome to do so.

41:05

By the way, James is the one who sent you the Batman T -shirt. Yeah, no, that's great.

41:11

I still want to get a picture of you wearing that Batman. Yeah, I need to I need to take a picture, except I don't want to come across like I'm promoting myself like I'm this spiritual

41:23

Batman. OK, so James, just send me a send me a T -shirt of Robin and we'll just then he can wear that and together we'll be

41:31

OK. I'll do that. We'll get to work on it tonight. And just for the record, Andrew, nobody wants to ride in the car with you either.

41:38

So have you ever been in a car where I'm driving, James? No, no, no, no.

41:48

Look, I'm a very safe my my I've, you know, my racing days.

41:53

Are out of my system. I, you know, I don't I don't do double the speed limit anymore.

41:59

I mean, real. No. So this letter went out,

42:05

Justin, why do you think the issue of trying to get Beth Moore to to really get her to come out publicly and nail her down on the issue of homosexuality?

42:16

Why is that important? I mean, what's the big deal? What if it matters that she's got a bunch of friends that are big on this?

42:23

Who cares? Well, friendship is not the issue in and of itself. You can be friends with a homosexual.

42:31

Now, you can't have fellowship with a homosexual, but you can be friends with one for the purpose of evangelism.

42:39

But the reason it's so important is this, Andrew, Beth Moore portrays herself certainly claims to be a.

42:48

Evangelical Bible teacher, she claims that the word of God is her authority. And yet and yet she lavishes praise on Jen Hatmaker and Jonathan Merritt, two people who have expressly denied the authority of Scripture.

43:08

And yet she treats them like her brother and sister. In fact, she did an interview with Jonathan Merritt that I listened to just yesterday when all this stuff was coming up.

43:19

I listened to it yesterday. And she and Jonathan Merritt did a whole program talking about fellowship,

43:25

Christian fellowship. Well, Jonathan Merritt is not a believer.

43:30

He's not a Christian. And I don't say that to demean him at all. But Scripture is very clear.

43:37

First Corinthians, chapter six, very clear that homosexuals, feminine homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.

43:45

And yet she treats him like he is. This this man needs evangelism. He needs to be evangelized, not to be affirmed as a believer.

43:54

So she claims to believe the word of God. She claims that it is her authority. She claims to teach it.

44:00

And yet what is what she is saying to her millions of followers around the world?

44:06

Is that she has no problem with homosexuality because she is affirming these people as her brother and sister in Christ.

44:16

And so what does what does that convey to all of these millions of people who follow her and listen to her and believe her to be an authority on the word of God?

44:28

So this is very important. It's very important. And it's really painted her in a tight spot,

44:35

Andrew, because if she were to come out and say, yes, I believe homosexuality is a sin.

44:41

No, a practicing homosexual cannot be a Christian. No, a practicing homosexual will not inherit the kingdom of God.

44:48

Yes, this sin must be repented. If she were to come out and say that, then it would cause a lot of problems for her with Jen Hatmaker and Jonathan Mayer and all these others like minded.

45:01

But but I really don't think that's her position. I really believe that she is a theological liberal on this position.

45:10

I think the evidence speaks for itself. So she's in a very difficult spot now, if she does not answer the letter.

45:17

And honestly, I don't really expect her to. Yeah, I don't think she will. Yeah, I don't.

45:23

But her silence on it speaks volumes, does it not? I think it does. I mean, Andrew, you know, it's not

45:29

I promise you, anybody I think I speak for you to anybody could ask me any question about my ministry, about my theology, about my doctrine.

45:40

We may or may not agree on every minutia of eschatology or things like that, you know, but hey, you ask me where I stand on something,

45:48

I'll tell you, I have no problem, especially not on something of this magnitude that is so crystal clear from Scripture.

45:59

This is not whether you're pre -millennial, post -millennial, pre -triposter, bi -millennial, you know, we're not talking about it, things like that.

46:07

We're not talking about who you think wrote the book of Hebrews, where this is a this is an issue that is crystal clear.

46:14

There's no debate about it amongst people who believe the Bible, who believe it to be authoritative and inerrant and submission.

46:21

There's just no debate. So, you know, John MacArthur and R .C.

46:26

Sproul had different positions on eschatology. There was there was no difference between them on this issue because it is so crystal clear from Scripture.

46:36

You know, this is easy. As I said, softball sitting on the tee waiting to be knocked out of the park.

46:44

And so her her lack of response will speak volumes. Yeah, and the thing is, is that, as you said, this isn't something you could sit on the sidelines about, especially because she is pushing something that I think is the stepping stone to allowing homosexuality in the church.

47:04

If she's pushing so strongly for women to be preachers and pastors and to be preaching on Sunday service, which she does, which she does.

47:15

And then this becomes a thing of, OK, if you're going to say you're going to do that and you're going to say that that you think that's biblical, then where do you stand on this next issue?

47:24

Because this is where everybody always seems to go. Once they get women pastors, preachers, they always want to go the next step to, well, now you have to accept homosexuality.

47:36

Say again. Oh, yeah, I was just saying always absolute error always begets more error always.

47:43

And that's the thing that I see this so dangerous. I actually now I'm going to say this.

47:48

I know, Justin, you're not going to disagree with this because I've talked about this, but I'm going to say this and it is going to ruffle the feathers of many.

47:57

And I don't say this with any joy. I don't say this with any glee.

48:02

I'm not happy to have to say this, but I believe Beth Moore is one of the most dangerous evangelicals alive today.

48:11

That is wrong, that is harsh. But it's true.

48:16

Why? Because she's deceiving people. She is getting people under the guise of Bible teaching.

48:23

She is getting away from the Bible and getting people to feel their way through the

48:29

Bible. It's all emotionalism. Yeah, absolutely. And it's it's a it's a danger to the church.

48:39

And and how she interprets scripture. See, you're you're going to learn how to interpret the

48:44

Bible by by the way that the people you listen to interpret the Bible.

48:50

If you're listening to John MacArthur and Steve Lawson and Bodhi Balcombe and some of these guys and R .C.

48:57

Sproul, who's in heaven now, you know, you're going to you're going to you're going to learn how to rightly interpret scripture.

49:04

If you listen to Beth Moore and Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer, you're going to learn how to isagit scripture.

49:12

You're going to learn how to take a passage and spin it and twist it and turn it up this way and that way and make it say whatever you want it to say.

49:24

That's that's what's happening. This is why it's so dangerous is because she has an enormous following.

49:31

And I absolutely agree with you that she is one of the most dangerous people in the evangelical world today.

49:38

I would more dangerous than Benny Hinn because she has a much broader following.

49:45

Well, and she has a conservative following. I mean, Benny Hinn, most of his followers are not even in the realm of evangelical

49:55

Christian. I mean, most people recognize that as I mean, maybe Michael Brown can't. But the rest of you.

50:03

Oh, sorry. Did that flip? Sorry, the but she is within evangelicalism and she's still seen as a conservative.

50:14

She's still seen and propped it up by the Southern Baptist Convention. So that's why this has to be addressed, has is so dangerous.

50:24

The president of the SBC, J .D. Greer, fully endorses her. Russell Moore fully endorses her.

50:32

You have all of the all of the bigwigs in the in the SBC are either fully supportive of her or will not call her out by name in any kind of critique.

50:46

I literally know of no one in the SBC who is in a position of leadership at the convention level that will call her out in her error.

51:01

Call her out for what she has no one. Isn't that, though, the kind of the unwritten rule in the

51:09

SBC, though, is that you don't want to. Yeah, you can't you're not allowed to actually criticize another

51:14

Southern Baptist. That's right. You're exactly right. The only people who would now to his to his great credit,

51:24

Dr. Owen Strand has to his great credit. But he's he's a professor at a

51:30

Southern Baptist seminary, but he's not you know, he's not in a position of leadership at the convention level.

51:38

You know, not not with not in that sense. So so my my concern is, is what's going to happen when

51:44

J .D. Greer steps down as president and Beth Moore becomes president?

51:52

Because that's that's that's the big word right now. Yeah, everyone is saying that this is going to be something that's going to happen.

52:00

Right. I know. And I've there's a lot of discussion about that. But here's here's my take on it.

52:06

And I think I'm right. Beth Moore will never be the president of the SBC, not because she would not be welcomed as such, but because she doesn't want it.

52:19

I really don't think she wants to be president of the SBC. I don't think she's geared that way. The gig that she's got going now is she makes much more money.

52:28

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The money is much bigger. Yeah. So I don't she's just not geared that way.

52:36

That's not she doesn't want. And if it was handed to her on a silver platter, I don't think she would take it.

52:41

So. But here's the point. The very fact that these conversations are even taking place, that there is actually serious discussion about it, that there are prominent pastors in the

52:54

SBC who would welcome that. If the fact that this conversation is even taking place, that shows you you've lost.

53:04

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The the the the snakes are already in the bushes and they're they're they're doing their jobs.

53:13

You know, they're they're. Yeah. It's lucky that maybe there's a few church doors we need to nail some theses on.

53:22

You said he's like the ninety five theses, not feces. Correct.

53:28

I came across. I'm just I didn't want to I want to open up for James and Chris. I added you guys in.

53:33

I know that this is a topic, James, I know for you, very sensitive.

53:39

You've dealt with in the past. But anything you guys want to ask of of either Justin or I or add to the conversation?

53:47

Now, I just know it's it's been pretty difficult because the church that we're in now, the church that Frank Mullis pastors and I'm directly under him in a discipleship manner, as well as a pastoral manner.

54:02

You know, we're still under the SBC. And, you know, whenever I tell you that there's just like a desire just to completely split from them because of the direction that they're going.

54:11

I mean, it's it's unreal. And I mean, we do speak out against it every Sunday.

54:17

I mean, we make mention of Beth Moore and the heresy that they're promoting, the false teaching.

54:23

And it's just a very dangerous path. Very unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah, it really is.

54:31

I'm so glad. I'm so glad you guys are doing that. And Frank is doing that it the

54:37

SBC. And I don't say this because I've got a personal ax to grind. I was

54:43

SBC. I was born rear and SBC, went to a SBC seminary, was

54:49

SBC for the first 37 years of my life. I'm afraid the

54:56

SBC is done. Stick a fork in it. Done.

55:01

There are some good men in the SBC. There are. I don't mean to say that there aren't. There are. I have good friends who are

55:08

SBC pastors, good guys, but there's too few of them. Yeah, there's just too few of them.

55:15

They're trying to save the SBC. But honestly, I'm afraid they're just trying to put little floaties on the

55:23

Titanic. You know, what amazed me, Justin, was the fact that here you got a group of men who are

55:29

SBC. Years ago, I remember sitting down when Mark Dever came to my seminary and and hearing him lay out.

55:37

He said we several of us came up with a 20 year plan. It's the only time that you have a denomination that started going liberal and they brought it back.

55:47

It's the only denomination I know of that came conservative from going liberal. And they did it because they had this long term plan.

55:55

But the crazy thing is the very same men that had that 20 year plan, that turned it around within their own time period.

56:06

They're the ones letting it go liberal again. They're the ones not taking a stand on social justice. They're the ones that aren't going to be taking a stand to to do something about this.

56:17

Now, before before you answer with that, because we just got a super chat and for folks who don't know what a super chat is, because I know

56:22

Justin is well, he's technologically. Well, it's half an hour to get him in here.

56:29

OK, super chat, Justin, is when people like something said or appreciate the show, they want to show it by donating money.

56:36

And so it shows up in the chat and it comes up. So full, full belly bear gave nineteen ninety nine.

56:45

And his comment is and we always read the comment when someone gives a super chat. And I say this all time.

56:51

The super chats go to Karm .org. They do not go to Striving Fraternity, who actually runs this this podcast and show.

57:00

It's the arrangement that we ended up working out with them so that it's basically how we can advertise and use their their channel for for that.

57:09

So the money at Super Chat go to Karm .org. If you want to donate to Striving Fraternity, you can go to Striving Fraternity dot org slash donate.

57:17

If you want to donate to Justin Peters, go to Justin. I win dot com.

57:23

And it's something I'll tell you, even if you've been out to that site, I'm going to give you a reason to go there again.

57:29

And John's probably going to mute himself and go do this right now. But go to Justin, I win dot com, go down and there's a video that explains the history of Justin, I win dot com.

57:39

But after that is a new video that Justin probably doesn't even know that's up there. But while we were in the

57:45

Philippines taking a picture of the entire church, when instead of saying cheese like one, two, three cheese, they said one, two, three,

57:52

Justin, I win. It was great. We have a whole church doing that. But Full Belly Bear says this,

57:59

Justin. Quote, Batman, unquote, thinks he's the pope like preacher.

58:07

I saw a video of him sitting on a chair and being hoisted up over the shoulders and carried into a church, which proves he thinks he's spiritually better than all of us.

58:22

Oh, that's great. Full Belly Bear. Yes, I've actually I haven't released the video, but I do have a video in Philippines of Justin being hoisted up on a chair and carried into the ball that we were going to speak in because their their ramp was broken.

58:38

They had a chair in the ramp that Justin was supposed to go down, but it was broken. So it was the only way to get him around.

58:45

He likes to be carried around. Yeah, I know.

58:51

It's yeah, when I was in Ukraine, everywhere in Ukraine has steps.

58:58

I mean, it's just literally every single place I saw had steps in the church that I was preaching at had steps and there was just no way for me to get out of them.

59:06

So they put me in this chair and they hoisted me up. And have you ever seen the video of he's dead now, but Bishop Eddie Long several years ago and they put him in a chair and they hoisted him up and made him an apostle and wrapped him in this scroll kind of thing.

59:21

And that's really kind of what I felt like. But I hated it. But it was it was either that or me preach outside.

59:28

So that would be called open air preaching.

59:34

Yeah. Just saying. Yeah. Hey, Justin, just give you a little bit of encouragement. I just as this show is going on,

59:41

I want to read to you a message I just got on Facebook because even though it's late for us, well, it's later for me than you.

59:48

But it's daytime over there in the Philippines. And so from the Philippines is was is responding to me, send me a message and just want to say that, you know,

59:59

I want to see how we're doing since we left Manila. He said, I keep playing and replaying your podcast on the attributes of God.

01:00:08

They're very short and easy to understand. I shared it with my wife. And then he said this.

01:00:13

And I think this will encourage. He said, I was able to talk to a missionary friend who goes to Victory Christian Fellowship Church, whose pastors were called out during the conference.

01:00:24

He told me they wish the speakers talk to the church first to get context.

01:00:31

Any any thoughts on that? My thoughts, I told him, is we tried. We asked before and afterwards.

01:00:37

They declined to meet with us. There's no need to meet with them when. You know, they're they were public statements that they made, and I said to him is that and he said, thank me for clarifying this, if if they're offended by you and I quoting them, it means they know their quotes are wrong because they don't put out there.

01:01:02

I mean, if you said it, you should be proud to have it out there. Yeah. All right.

01:01:09

So and I guess Chris Honholz, aka

01:01:15

Captain America, and we did you and I did take a picture. Actually, you and I in the

01:01:20

Philippines saw in the mall Captain America. We took a picture with Captain America just because we we wanted to feel close to Chris Honholz from Voice of Reason Radio.

01:01:29

And for folks who don't know Chris, he he is he's a police officer by day, Captain America by night, or really what it is, is he dresses as Captain America.

01:01:40

And and this is the part that, you know, I have to say nice things about him when I say this and I hate it.

01:01:46

But he goes he dresses up to Captain America and goes like children's hospitals and just cool.

01:01:52

I know it like makes the day of these kids. And it's like, OK, but I mean, we want to make fun of him because he's a grown man dressed as Captain America.

01:02:00

But he is making the day for for these kids. But he's obviously on his show.

01:02:06

He's got the gift of gab. But here he's he's like just like, I'm just listening. Just go on without me.

01:02:15

That's so cool. That's so cool. That's really encouraging. And and I have no doubt that that opens up opportunities for Captain America to share the gospel to with these kids and their their parents.

01:02:28

And that's just a really cool thing. Chris, don't don't he's typing in the corrections.

01:02:34

Don't just type them in. Unmute yourself, Mr. I got a podcast voice of reason radio.

01:02:40

Come on. Yes, we are trying to force you on to the show. We should just all go silent until he you know, it'd be for horrible radio if we did this and, you know, just make him actually say hello.

01:02:53

People in YouTube are saying, come on, Chris. They all want to hear your voice. We want a voice of reason on this subject, sir.

01:03:05

And he's not going to do it. We can't we just can't get him. All right. Well, wow.

01:03:10

I know Captain America failed. Hey, I just saw

01:03:18

Chris. Where'd he go? There you are. Hey, Chris. Hi. Hey. Hey, brother.

01:03:24

How are you? Well, I was trying to just eat dinner and enjoy the program. But, you know, Andrew being

01:03:29

Andrew had to find a way to force me on. How are you guys doing?

01:03:37

Doing well, man. Doing well. How about you? Blessed, tired, trying to stay awake for two two weeks of training for my job.

01:03:46

So you I don't know if you have you had a chance to see this open letter to Beth Moore yet,

01:03:53

Chris? Yeah. Yes. Actually, I'm sure you're going to deal with it on your next show, like every other podcast is going to.

01:03:59

But what are your thoughts? Well, actually, Rich and I recorded yesterday because of my training.

01:04:06

And so it's going to drop tomorrow morning. And that was what we led with. I think the letter that Michelle and the other ladies put together is

01:04:15

I think it was solid. I think it addresses a genuine, a genuine problem that.

01:04:21

A lot of folks simply are trying to ignore and that's she's Beth Moore has a history of spending time and promoting people who are very problematic at a minimum, downright heretical at the worst.

01:04:36

And she never seems to catch any kind of any any problems or any concern for it.

01:04:44

And so I think it's entirely appropriate to say, OK, here you are, someone who is very much about lately social justice.

01:04:54

You're talking about misogyny. You're talking about racism. Part and parcel with the whole social justice intersectionality issue is the

01:05:02

LGBT group. And if you are so remarkably silent yet, you're maintaining these associations with people who promote this.

01:05:12

Where do you stand? Because this is important. You're jumping into their camp.

01:05:18

You're making pitches for them by saying we need to be part of this social justice movement. If you're going to make that pitch.

01:05:24

And I think Bodie Balcombe said it perfectly. You have to be all in. You don't get to pick and choose when it comes to the social justice movement.

01:05:32

You can't say, oh, I'm OK for issues of racism, but LGBT, you will be devoured alive.

01:05:38

Ask Martina Navratilova what happened when she did that. You know, outspoken lesbian tennis player who said no, transgender men should not be in women's sports and they destroyed her for it.

01:05:49

So Beth Moore is being remarkably silent. She's going to have to answer this at some point.

01:05:55

I think it's better that Christians ask her this question and ask her to take a stance than she find herself in the crosshairs of the social justice movement.

01:06:07

Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. If she were to come out with a biblical position on homosexuality, she would lose her woke card in a heartbeat.

01:06:18

Yeah. And I'd say this, too, Chris, because what you just said jogged my thinking in this way as well.

01:06:26

She professes her love for Jen Hatmaker and Jonathan Merritt. I would like to know.

01:06:33

And I wish this question was in the letter, I would like to know, Beth, if you say if you believe what the

01:06:40

Bible says about homosexuality, have you evangelized these people? Given them the gospel, you say you love them, you say you love them.

01:06:48

Well, have you lovingly told Jonathan Merritt that if he dies in the state that he is in, he will perish for all of eternity because the

01:06:57

Bible says that he will. So, yeah, I think this is a letter that Beth Moore just can't answer, but in not answering it, she has answered it.

01:07:07

No, I absolutely agree with that. She is such a popular figure that in life way, you can be sure her handlers right now are just absolutely keeping her away from any response to this because, you know, the second she steps out, if she endorses

01:07:25

LGBT lifestyle as being, as Jen Hatmaker put it, relationships that can be holy, half the

01:07:33

SBC, despite where it's going, is going to jettison her. If she denies that LGBT can be holy and that it is sin, there goes the other half.

01:07:44

So this is for her, this is a public relations nightmare. And that's not what was intended, but it's going to be.

01:07:50

Yeah. Yeah. And I hope that it is. I hope that it smokes her out for who she really is because she is not the theological conservative that people think her to be.

01:08:06

In fact, just today on Twitter, I had a, I can't remember his name, Bird, something

01:08:12

Bird. Anyway, he's a professor of New Testament, professor of theology at a seminary. And he was, he was going to bat for Beth Moore and accuse me, accuse me of covering for abuse from men because of this open letter that I think she ought to answer.

01:08:36

Then that means I oppose her calling out abuse for men, sexual abuse for men.

01:08:43

So I must be in favor of men sexually abusing women. Well, the fact is there is sexual abuse that goes on.

01:08:51

But here's the interesting reality. The same reason that the sexual abuse goes on is the same reason that the abuse of allowing a woman to preach goes on, because people are not living and following by the scriptures.

01:09:07

You're allowing other things to be more important than God's word.

01:09:13

And you're not practicing completely what the scriptures say in the church.

01:09:20

And it goes for both. So it's kind of ironic because on one hand, she wants to reject the scriptures so she could be preaching at a pulpit on a

01:09:29

Sunday morning. And yet she's upset because other people were not following the scriptures and sexually abusing people.

01:09:39

Well, but wait a minute, both are wrong, according to scripture. Once you reject the scripture and say it's cultural, well, then what gives you the right to say that sexual abuse is not cultural as well?

01:09:52

Because, you know, I don't know if you guys realize, but and I can't remember if I heard this on my fears on our

01:10:00

Mueller's briefing today that they're actually in Teen Vogue, a teen magazine that's supposed to be about teen fashion.

01:10:09

They had an article promoting prostitution as a real job to teenagers, to 13 year olds, promoting prostitution as a way of making money to 13 year olds.

01:10:21

You don't think that this culture is trying to redefine everything in the realm of sexuality?

01:10:29

Yeah, the headline actually read sex work is real work. Yes. Yeah, so insanity, insanity all around us.

01:10:41

All right, so let's let's I want to shift gears to word of faith for for at least the time we have left since no one else came in, there was someone who came in and we didn't get a chance to add him in because he just dropped out.

01:10:54

But I'm going to I'm going to let the expert who is in here answer an email that we got a striving for eternity.

01:11:03

The reason I'm doing this is basically that way. I could just I was going to just say my email response was going to be go to JustinPeters .org.

01:11:13

But better yet, I'll actually ask this of the man behind Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries.

01:11:21

Full belly bear just gave another super chat, said, can women can can women straight preach to the law?

01:11:28

OK, so before we move on, let's answer that because we may have some differing opinions here. I'll go first.

01:11:36

I'll put this the stake in the ground. Justin's going to disagree with me to to a degree, possibly.

01:11:43

So first off, let me let me correct the and he and full belly bear gave a dollar ninety nine for that question.

01:11:49

So I guess that's one way to make sure a question gets answered. Right. You give us super chat.

01:11:55

We're going to ask the question. OK, so first off, I have a problem with the way it's worded.

01:12:02

Can a woman street preach to the wall? I don't think it's preaching. If it's preaching, like if she's opening a

01:12:08

Bible like we would do on a Sunday morning and she is reading a text of scripture, exegeting that text, explaining the meaning of the text, giving the application of the text, then

01:12:18

I would say no. OK, because we don't we don't yet.

01:12:23

Now, can a woman evangelize a man? Well, I have a lot of reasons. I don't think it's wise, but I think a woman can evangelize a person.

01:12:32

Now, if a woman is talking to one on one. Can she do like Ray Comfort's good person test?

01:12:38

Can she do that? OK, I would say sure. Can she share her testimony? Sure. Could she just read scripture?

01:12:44

I would probably say sure. Can she do it one on one? Yes. So if she could do it one on one, can she do it with with three or four people or five people or however many people?

01:12:54

I would say maybe. But if she's going to when you put her up on a box and she's seen in a position where maybe she could be seen as an authority, now it becomes a little bit of a different area.

01:13:07

Now, let me say this. I cannot look I can't look at the passage in First Timothy two and say that that's going to apply because the street is not church.

01:13:19

OK, and I think First Timothy two is within the church. I think that there's some issues there that are gray areas.

01:13:28

But I think what is clear is she cannot exegete scripture the way we would do in a church.

01:13:36

I would have real issues with that. Can she share how she got saved? Can she just read a scripture verse and let

01:13:42

God do the work through the scripture? Can she just do a good person test like Ray Comfort does? I would say,

01:13:47

OK, I don't know that I'm comfortable. I'm not super comfortable with her doing it on a box. But that's there's multiple reasons for that.

01:13:54

Justin's going to have a different take. And I think, you know, he's he's almost swayed me. And so maybe this will be the this may be the one that pushes me over the headship issue.

01:14:04

Justin, I had a long talk about this and he I'll be honest with you, folks. I've talked about this issue of women open air evangelizing.

01:14:14

And I would say that I've heard a lot of different arguments. I think Justin gives the best argument

01:14:21

I ever heard against it. Now, I've kind of set him up pretty high to like, you know, there's high expectations now.

01:14:28

But that's why I went first so that he can now convince me maybe by the end of the show, I'm going to repent and change my view completely.

01:14:35

But I'm close. I will admit for our last conversation, he's got me very close. So go ahead,

01:14:41

Justin. Well, you lift me up now. I'm trying to remember what I said to you.

01:14:51

Well, your issue is about headship and the example everywhere we see in Scripture of headship.

01:14:57

And so that was. Yeah, I mean, you just. There's there's something to be said for this, there's something to be said, it was not a random flip of the coin that all of the apostles were men, that was not a random flip of the coin.

01:15:15

It's not a random flip of the coin that all of the elders in the church planters and evangelists and that they were all men.

01:15:24

That's not a random thing. That was by design. And even in Acts chapter six, I was I was reading today in Acts chapter six.

01:15:31

You have an issue that raised up, in fact, it was the first real kind of a crisis issue in the in the in the early church.

01:15:39

And it had to do with the collection of for the widows, you know, to care for them.

01:15:46

And it's interesting, in fact, I'll just flip open to it right here now at this time. Actually, I pursue verse one at this time, while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the

01:15:56

Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food.

01:16:02

So the twelve apostles summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, it is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.

01:16:11

Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the spirit of wisdom who we may put in charge of this task.

01:16:23

So, you know, here you have the kind of first crisis issue that arose in the church. And and the apostles said, select from among you seven men, not women.

01:16:33

And this were to care for the widows. So, you know, it's a good opportunity for to put ladies in charge of helping the widows.

01:16:40

Right. But no, they said choose seven men to do it. So all throughout, you see you see men taking the leadership roles in the home, in the church.

01:16:52

There's just I just think there is an absolute no biblical case to be made for women preaching.

01:16:59

Theoretically, Andrew, I agree with you that that a woman could one on one share the gospel.

01:17:05

I agree. I do not recommend it. I think you run into all kinds of potential difficulties there and misunderstandings.

01:17:13

So I encourage men to do that with men and women to do that with women out on the streets.

01:17:21

But yeah, when you when you step up and you start taking the word of God and reading it and expounding on it, you've entered a different realm, even though you're not in church out on Main Street standing on a box.

01:17:35

Granted, you're not in a church per se, but that is still you're still taking by virtue of the fact that you're exposing

01:17:44

God's word, you're taking a position of authority because what God's word is authoritative. But yeah,

01:17:51

I just I just there's just no biblical case that can be made for a woman to open air preach just goes against the natural order of things, goes against what we see in scripture.

01:18:04

So. So, you know, we got a lot.

01:18:11

Huh. Was that what you were talking about? Yeah. Yeah. So, Chris, were you going to say something?

01:18:18

I just didn't really have anything planned about that. I just would agree with with Justin, actually.

01:18:24

I mean, scripture is pretty evident about the headship and it applies back to God's created order.

01:18:32

And when we. Try to make the case that, well, if if women can do this or women can do that and, you know, then maybe we can twist it this way or go that way,

01:18:43

I think we're stepping outside of that a little bit and. Now it's like, well, where are all the caveats, what things can we do, how can we do it this way, can we not do it that way?

01:18:54

And I think that's part of the problem is, is rather than looking at how has

01:18:59

God laid this out, what is the order he set up, how do we see it modeled in scripture, how do we see it modeled in the church?

01:19:06

And let's do it that way. It's like we're trying to say, well, what are the ways we can get closest to the edge here and be

01:19:13

OK? I mean, that's that's where I look at it. And I used to be one of those that I didn't see that it was a big deal.

01:19:20

But the more I look at it and the more I've heard the arguments, kind of like Andrew over time, there's been a lot of arguments made and some were not so nice on either side.

01:19:31

Ultimately, it came down to, we're saying to people, repent, believe the gospel.

01:19:37

We're giving commands when we share the gospel. And if you are preaching this from the box, if you're on the street corner commanding this, you're speaking with a level of authority.

01:19:47

And this is not a situation where you can, you know, unless you were at a place where you knew it was just only women.

01:19:57

I think you would have a hard time being able to say you're not exercising authority to anybody in earshot.

01:20:03

And I see that as being problematic at a minimum. So I agree with Justin on this. I think it ties back to his created order.

01:20:10

We see the male headship throughout scripture and that reflects God's relationship with the church through Jesus Christ.

01:20:17

I don't think we want to mess with that. Yeah, and yeah, kudos to everything you just said,

01:20:24

Chris, and I would throw in one other thing just for clarification. And in addition to what we're talking about, just to support it and maybe clarify a little bit.

01:20:34

The question was, can a woman should preach? Really, the question should be, should a woman preach?

01:20:43

We're not talking about a matter of ability. I have no doubt that there are many, many women who could, who have the ability to do it, who have the scriptural knowledge that theoretically would have the ability to do it.

01:21:02

But that's not the issue. We're not talking about are women as spiritual as men? Can they know as much doctrine as men?

01:21:09

We're not talking about that. We're talking about should she, is she permitted to?

01:21:15

So I just want to make that very clear for all of our listeners or viewers or whatever that we're not talking about a lack of ability or capability.

01:21:26

It's roles. It's should she, not really. Can she?

01:21:32

Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. And just for some, we'll get some more super chats in.

01:21:40

Full belly bear gave four ninety nine saying Andrew's such a gentleman that he doesn't want women standing on the box because they might slip and get hurt.

01:21:50

That's exactly the reason. That's the reason. That's why Jason Manning gives two dollars and says

01:21:56

Jesus is Lord. Praise Jesus. So we have that. It's nice that I'm thought to be a gentleman.

01:22:07

I would like to hear Chris Honhold say that I'm a gentleman that that now that would be neat.

01:22:13

I'd have to clip that and use that often. Andrew, you're a gentleman.

01:22:20

Oh, I'm clipping that. Hey, speaking of clip, you know, I have something

01:22:25

I've always wanted to be able to play. I've never had a use for this clip yet, and I really still don't have a use.

01:22:32

You know, Justin Peters is going to have a new podcast. Do you guys know that? Do you know?

01:22:38

OK, this is going to be really bad. I'm going to say this, but Justin Peters has one one episode that he started to start his podcast.

01:22:49

And basically what happened was, is that he hasn't done any since then.

01:22:57

OK, guys, guys, Justin Peters has almost 700 downloads on a clip that just says coming soon.

01:23:09

I don't even think I've got that combined ever since February. There are people,

01:23:15

Justin, that are like, can you imagine if he gets an actual podcast out? In three years of podcasting, the one podcast episode we have that's the highest is about two hundred and fifty, two hundred and seventy downloads.

01:23:30

That was with Michelle Leslie as a guest. So him doing an introductory podcast has outclassed all of our other shows.

01:23:39

So you see, Justin, what that says is there are a lot of people that really, really, really are anxious.

01:23:45

That tells me that those people have subscribed and they're waiting. They're waiting. But I'll give you

01:23:51

I'll give you guys some behind the scenes. This was this was me trying to introduce

01:23:56

Justin when we did that. So I'll play this for you for your enjoyment at my expense.

01:24:02

Hi, I'm Andrew Rappaport from the Christian Exhibit. Let me do that again. Yikes. I'm nervous for Justin here.

01:24:08

That must be it. Yes, I'm very intimidated. They heard it.

01:24:16

Justin admits he's very intimidating. I grabbed that because I said, there's got to be some time where that could be used for fun.

01:24:26

So now is the time, I guess. All right. So, Justin, we got an email into Striving for Eternity and the the subject was

01:24:35

Holy Laughter. OK, so this is one that you're better equipped to handle than me.

01:24:42

And so I'm thinking if you give an answer here, I could just direct them not only to JustinPeters .org,

01:24:48

but also to here to be able to hear your answer. But here's the question I'd like you to to see if you can give an answer.

01:24:59

Well, OK, it says, I'm a Pentecostal believer and a believer in everything that comes with that doctrinally, but I have been young in the ministry and I just have seen people who laugh hysterically at things like the

01:25:19

Toronto Blessing. Do you affirm guys like Rodney Howard Brown and Bill Johnson and movements such as that?

01:25:30

Or do you see them as not the work of the Spirit? It's been hard because guys like David Wilkinson think it is not.

01:25:40

And I just want to be firm on one because to me, first seeing it made me grieve a little immediately, red flagged in my spirit.

01:25:53

I'm young. I just going on in the ministry and want to be led correct.

01:26:02

So what's this young man saying? Are you at liberty to say his name is David. David, is he is he watching?

01:26:09

I have no idea if he's watching. I did. I realized I should like that. I was going to ask you this. And I said

01:26:14

I should have emailed him and told him. But I'm going to send him the clip, you know, send him where where this is in the clip.

01:26:21

So if you want to speak directly to David, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. David, I'm so glad you sent that question in.

01:26:28

And I was really touched, actually, by, for one, your humility and acknowledging that you're young and you have a lot to learn.

01:26:38

I mean, we all do. But, you know, being young, you know, us older guys, we've got a little bit more a little bit more in the rearview mirror than you do.

01:26:47

But a little bit more gray in the beard, you mean there? Yeah, I got lots of gray in my beard. But yeah,

01:26:52

I appreciate your humility in recognizing that. And and also

01:26:59

I was I was I was encouraged by what you said, how when you saw this, you grieved at it.

01:27:07

And you know what? Honestly, that to me sounds like the working of the

01:27:14

Holy Spirit inside of you, that you see something, even though you may not know why it's wrong, it just instinctively grieves you.

01:27:23

And there's a reason that it grieves you, because it's not right. It's not biblical. As with anything that we see practice, our first question that we need to answer is, is it biblical?

01:27:35

Is there any scriptural support for this? And the fact of the matter is, is that there's not.

01:27:41

There's not. In fact, we see the opposite in scripture. When we see men who find themselves in the presence of God, Old or New Testament, we see people who are overwhelmed by the holiness of God, overwhelmed by their own sinful state.

01:27:59

Even John, writing the book of Revelation, this is an apostle, he's writing the book of Revelation, when

01:28:05

Christ appeared to him, fell as a dead man. We see we see

01:28:10

Isaiah saying, Woe is me, for I am ruined, for I'm a man of unclean lips and live among a people of unclean lips.

01:28:19

For my eyes have seen the king, the Lord of hosts. We don't see anyone in the

01:28:24

Bible getting their chuckles off of God. It's just completely foreign scripture.

01:28:30

The opposite of that is true. We see people overwhelmed by his holiness, and they fall in reverence before and they don't laugh at him.

01:28:39

So it's very unbiblical. It's a pagan practice, actually. Hindus do this.

01:28:45

People in Hindu kundalini laugh uncontrollably. It's not something that Christians ought to do.

01:28:50

So all of your concerns are very warranted. And that check in your spirit that you had, there's a reason you had that check in your spirit.

01:29:00

Yeah, and I would concur with everything that you said. I mean, there's a lot of stuff.

01:29:05

I mean, he mentioned some other stuff with Rodney Howard Brown and Bill Johnson.

01:29:12

Yeah, these are wolves. These are false teachers. Absolutely. Yeah, the Toronto blessing and the

01:29:18

Brown revival for folks who may not know who some of these people are or what the

01:29:24

Toronto blessing or the revival, the Brown revival or some of this holy laughter, could you could you explain to folks what some of this stuff is?

01:29:34

I mean, I'll give you my my take and then because you're going to expand on it and answer much better than I do.

01:29:40

But to me, it just seems like it starts off with, oh, I can speak in tongues. I feel more spiritual because I'm doing

01:29:47

I have this personal experience and then I get a word of the Lord. I feel like I do more because I got this.

01:29:53

I got I'm even more spiritual. And it becomes this thing where I have to outdo that that experience, that emotional experience to get a high almost like I have to keep going to where now it's it's barking like dog.

01:30:09

It's this holy laughter. They have holy vomiting. They have all kinds of things where people are claimed to be drunk in the spirit and they act like they're drunk.

01:30:18

And you see this stuff. And it you know, it reminds me of it reminds me back when

01:30:24

I was in high in college, I used to work at a bar and I used to be I've done everything as a bartender.

01:30:30

I was I used to I ended up making most of the money, you know, just being outside the bar with the park in the cars.

01:30:37

I was actually a bouncer, even, by the way, just that might be my big, huge build.

01:30:43

I was I was actually a bouncer. The thing was, is that I was the one bouncer.

01:30:50

No one. I was the bouncer. The other bouncer used to laugh because I was the guy that didn't look intimidating until you had to deal with me.

01:31:00

Half the time I just use my brains. I'd be like, you know, I'd get in someone's face and be like, I want to I want you outside, you and I right now.

01:31:08

And I'd pop the side door open and they'd march right out and I'd just close it behind them. But, you know,

01:31:15

I'd see these people being completely sober. And I'd watch them and they looked so foolish to me, and that's what

01:31:25

I see with a lot of these movements. Could you explain what some of them are? What's what's what's

01:31:30

Bethel about? What's IHOP about these different names mentioned? Maybe you could go into some of those.

01:31:37

Oh, yeah, there's an awful lot there, but to what you were just saying, one of the fruits of the spirit of self -control would be sober minded self -control.

01:31:46

And what you see in the charismatic movement is the exact opposite of that. So it's not the work of the

01:31:52

Holy Spirit. Yeah, you have things like the

01:31:57

Toronto Blessing, the Pensacola revival, the

01:32:05

Lakeland about 10 years ago with Todd Bentley. But these supposed moves of the Holy Spirit within the charismatic movement, it's all of these movements, whether it's

01:32:20

Toronto, Brownsville, Pensacola, there's one going on now in Mobile, Alabama.

01:32:25

All of these things are marked by false prophecies, unbiblical theology.

01:32:36

Heretical Christology, oftentimes a lack of preaching on repentance, an emphasis on signs and wonders and feelings and emotions and experiences.

01:32:47

And in everything that the Bible does not focus on is what these people focus on.

01:32:54

Their emphasis is on the Holy Spirit. And yet we know from Scripture, the Holy Spirit always points to Christ.

01:33:00

He doesn't, he never points to himself. He always points to Christ. So they are rife with, it's kind of like a modern day version of Phineism in a sense,

01:33:14

Phiney, whenever he preached, you know, with his decisional regeneration and he would have lots of numbers.

01:33:19

But after he left, the town that he was in was left in a worse state than it was before he got there.

01:33:25

And they started calling it the burned over districts because it was so rife with immorality and debauchery, even after these supposed revivals happened.

01:33:35

That's what you see with these more modern day movements is you don't see a transformation of the city at all.

01:33:44

And if the Holy Spirit was doing the work that they claim he is doing, you would see some fruit of that.

01:33:50

But you just don't. It's a modern day burned over district when you see these things crop up.

01:33:58

I've been to a lot of these meetings personally and I've been to Lakeland. And I can tell you there is hardly any gospel being preached.

01:34:09

It might have a little bit of a lingo there, but there's no emphasis on awareness of sin, personal holiness, genuine repentance, taking up the cross.

01:34:18

It's all about getting a buzz. It's all about getting some going from one experience to the next.

01:34:24

These ridiculous manifestations, these ridiculous emotional outbursts, emphasis on prophecies that are always false.

01:34:35

So God has nothing to do with this stuff. It's all purely pagan and driven by emotion and experience, not by the word of God.

01:34:47

So other than that, I have no problem with them. Yeah, other than that, they're fine.

01:34:56

Okay. So let me ask a question. I don't remember where I saw this. It could have been

01:35:01

Twitter. It could be anywhere. But the question that I saw asked was, oh,

01:35:08

I saw it on Facebook. Someone asked, can

01:35:13

I listen to Bethel music? And they made a comparison between Bethel, listening to Bethel music and listening and eating meat offered unto idols.

01:35:25

So they were basically saying, if you can eat meat offered unto idols, can you listen to Bethel music, because as long as you know that there's problems with some of the songs, listen to the other songs.

01:35:40

And I'm guessing they're saying, you know, whether it's in a church or not, I don't know the context of that question.

01:35:46

But that came up. I know how I answered. But let me ask you this question first.

01:35:53

Should people listen to Bethel music? I know your take on that. And then after that, when you say no, they shouldn't, because I was on the radio interview when they asked you that question, so I know your answer.

01:36:06

But when you say no, then the question will come up as a follow up. OK, what about meat offered unto idols?

01:36:13

Is that the same thing? Yeah, no, it's not the same thing.

01:36:19

You're comparing apples to oranges. There's really not even a tangential relation to those two things.

01:36:25

So they're completely disparate arguments and issues that you're dealing with.

01:36:32

You're right. No, you should not be listening to Bethel. You should not be listening to Hillsong, Jesus Culture of Bethel, Hillsong.

01:36:40

And for fun, let's throw in Elevation Church, pastored by Stephen Furtick.

01:36:48

Yes, of course, they produce some songs that will pass a doctrinal smell test.

01:36:54

Some of their songs are really wonky and goofy. Some of them, some of them do pass a doctrinal smell test.

01:37:01

Some of them even have almost a Calvinistic bent to them, believe it or not.

01:37:09

And so these songs are enormously popular. And I've been in churches, in good churches, doctrinally sound churches that sing

01:37:18

Hillsong songs, and it makes me bristle because here's the danger. The unsuspecting person sitting out there in the pew and they're looking up on the screen and they're singing the lyrics and they notice down in the bottom left -hand corner,

01:37:32

I think it is, bottom left -hand corner, music by Hillsong. Oh, Hillsong.

01:37:38

Well, we're singing their music, so I think I'll check them out. They must be okay. We're singing their music, so I'll check them out.

01:37:45

So these churches, quote unquote, because they're not churches, Hillsong's not a church,

01:37:52

Bethel is not a church. Elevation Church is not a church, but for lack of a better word, that's what they call themselves.

01:37:59

But these churches use their music as a hook to pull you into their heretical system, to pull you into their false theology.

01:38:09

They use their music as fundraisers. They make enormous amounts of money off of royalties selling their music.

01:38:18

And churches are feeding the beast, so to speak, make enormous amounts of money. Off of their music, that's one thing.

01:38:25

And you're supporting a cult when you do that. But also they use it as a hook to pull you into their theology.

01:38:32

It's kind of like a twisted outreach for them, their own twisted version of evangelism, if you will.

01:38:39

And so, yeah, I just bristle when I go into a church and they sing Hillsong songs.

01:38:45

I mean, I tell you what, you come to my church, Kootenai Community Church, ain't no

01:38:50

Hillsong going on in our church. We don't even sing Michael W. Smith songs, much less

01:38:56

Hillsong and all this stuff. So anyway, that's how I feel about that.

01:39:02

It's dangerous. It's very, very dangerous. All right, and so we're getting a lot of Super Chats tonight,

01:39:11

Full Belly Bear. Justin, you're bringing out people that are just liking this. So Full Belly Bear gives four dollars and ninety nine cents and he says

01:39:18

Clint Eastwood has a lot to say on this on the YouTube channel

01:39:24

Lutheran Satire. That is so funny. That is one of the funniest things. All right.

01:39:31

That's just gold. I love that. Yeah, let's let's see. Can we find can we find

01:39:36

Clint Eastwood? Because that I think you made me watch that and that was hysterical.

01:39:46

Clint Eastwood. Lutheran, I'm guessing this Lutheran satire.

01:39:54

Let's see. We could share screen that should be able to work. You made me watch this.

01:40:01

And aren't you glad I did? Yeah. So let me let me share my screen and just, you know, if you guys hear it,

01:40:12

OK, give me a thumbs up just, you know, in the screen. You don't have to say anything, but just so I know that you're hearing it.

01:40:20

So let me share this. And here we go. It's only only three minutes long.

01:40:26

So let's enjoy. Oh, I know what

01:40:31

I'm going to need to do first. Hold on. OK, now let's see if you'll hear it.

01:40:38

OK, where do you want me to stand? Right in front of the mic is good. And you guys just want me to read some hymns.

01:40:48

Oh, these are better than hymns. Way more inspiring and relevant. Oh, I feel like dancing.

01:40:54

It's foolishness. I know. But when the world has seen the light, they will dance with joy like we're dancing now.

01:41:01

Yeah. This is a religious song. Yeah. About God. Yes. The Bible, God.

01:41:09

That's the one. Yeah. In the secret, in the quiet hour, I wait only for you because I want to know you more.

01:41:17

I want to touch you. I want to see your face. So you're telling me that people sing this stuff in church?

01:41:24

Yeah. Men sing this in church. Well, usually just the guy in the praise band sings it. Everyone else just puts their hands up in the air and sways to the soothing soft rock rhythm like they're at a

01:41:35

Phil Collins show in 1986. Well, that sounds about right. Freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom.

01:41:45

When oceans rise, my soul will rest in your embrace for I am yours and you are mine.

01:41:53

You sure I got the right words here? Because this doesn't much sound like church music to me. What does it sound like?

01:41:58

Like what would happen if my six year old granddaughter married a care bear and they wrote their own wedding vows?

01:42:04

Yes, Lord. Yes, Lord. Yes. Yes, Lord. Yes, Lord. Yes, Lord. Yes, yes. It's worse than the script for Pink Cadillac.

01:42:11

All right. Next song. What's the matter, Quint? Well, I guess I'm just a bit confused.

01:42:17

This Christian music doesn't really talk about grace or forgiveness in any meaningful way. In fact, a lot of it doesn't even mention

01:42:24

Christ by name. Right. So what's the problem? Well, since Paul says in Colossians 3 .16

01:42:29

that the purpose of sacred music is to teach people who Jesus is and what he's done for us, you'd think that people who write sacred music today might at least want to name drop the

01:42:40

Son of God into one of their little ditties. Yeah, you'd think that, but no. I will call upon your name.

01:42:50

And by call upon your name, I mean never actually say your name in this song. When oceans rise,

01:42:57

I'm gonna sing the theme from back to the future because it's pretty much the same chord progression.

01:43:06

Dude, why are you making fun of all our songs? Well, maybe it's because I don't much care for it when Christians toss their greatest musical treasures in the garbage in order to sing a bunch of Josh Groban knockoff, barely religious cheeseball ballads for soccer moms.

01:43:20

What? You know something better? Well, how about this? Now I will cling forever to Christ, my savior.

01:43:26

True. My Lord will leave me and never whatever he passes through. He rends death's iron chain.

01:43:34

He breaks through sin and pain. He shatters hell's dark thrall. I follow him through all.

01:43:42

Dude, that was awesome. Can we record that with the band? Are they any good? Oh, we've got the best praise band in the state.

01:43:49

These guys can play anything. All right. Let them know the song has three sharps, seven chords.

01:43:54

Yeah. Okay. Well, nevermind then Mozart. All right.

01:44:05

So there you go. That's good stuff from a Lutheran satire, which is always fun to do.

01:44:11

So we'll stop sharing there. Okay. So, yeah, that's some good stuff that you made me watch one day.

01:44:23

Yeah. My favorite line is like my six -year -old granddaughter married a care bear.

01:44:31

That is gold.

01:44:41

All right. So I guess with that, James dropped out.

01:44:47

Everyone dropped out. But Chris is here. He's got his headphones on. So now he's ready to do some real podcasting now.

01:44:53

Now he's ready. He probably has his professional mic there. The kids have left him alone.

01:45:00

They closed the door behind him. So, Chris, if you had one opportunity to ask

01:45:06

Justin Peters anything now, is it? No, sir. Put me on the spot.

01:45:12

Oh, wait. My wife. And Justin, if there was ever a time that you that you wanted to ask

01:45:20

Captain America anything, I mean, now is the time that you'd be able to ask

01:45:25

Captain America himself, you know, like what was it like being trapped in water for?

01:45:31

What was it? 40 years. You could ask him that. Yeah, well, I tell you, if it was it,

01:45:38

I would say, how can we be? How can you play a character like Captain America and be so liberal politically?

01:45:46

This guy's really, I was so disappointed when I saw that when I saw quotes from him and he's just way out there in La La Land left field big time and yet he plays

01:45:57

Captain America and like, oh, come on. I was almost as disappointed as when I found out Andy Griffith.

01:46:03

Was also a liberal. I found out he was living like, oh, come on.

01:46:08

Seriously. Andy Griffith. Yeah. But Chris, I am sure that,

01:46:17

I mean, I just, I think what you do is so great. I'm sure that is. You have had to have had to have had many opportunities to share the gospel with people through, through this, what you're doing.

01:46:30

Is that right? I would like to say that's the case. Andrew tends to inflate what

01:46:36

I've done a little bit. I've seen pictures. Okay.

01:46:41

I didn't, you also go to Comic -Con and things like that, which, Hey, those are great opportunities to share the gospel too, by the way, but I've seen pictures of you at the hospital.

01:46:50

I tend to focus on the positive. There there's been two times when

01:46:57

I've gone and it's been with with other groups that were not religious.

01:47:04

So I was kind of subject to what they were, what they wanted to do. So I didn't really get an opportunity to talk with the kids.

01:47:11

So, but it's, it getting a chance to, to see their faces and, and be there that has always been enjoyable, but it's, it's a secondary thing at most that I'll do.

01:47:24

It started as a thing with my family. So my primary desire is to, to do what

01:47:31

Rich and I try to do. And that's spend time talking to people about Christ and share it online and share the gospel that way.

01:47:39

It's like, like I said, Andrew loves to make a lot of this. It, it tends to be, the truth is it's a very small portion of what

01:47:47

I spent my time Sure, sure. Sure. Yeah. I'm just judging by your

01:47:54

Facebook. I mean, look, anybody listen, anyone go out to Chris Hohenholz Facebook and just look at how many pictures that just examine the pictures and you decide if his life is

01:48:07

Captain America. It just looks like it is. It's a hobby.

01:48:13

And so I share my hobby. I, but if you look at my Facebook and my Twitter, it's also filled with far more stuff from Voice of Reason Radio over the last three years.

01:48:24

Well, I'm just glad, and this will be my first chance of saying that I'm very glad that Voice of Reason Radio has been consistent over the past several months.

01:48:35

And it's shocking, but you guys, have you guys missed an episode since I gave you all that grief about missing episodes?

01:48:44

Only one. We did miss one episode, but we ran a rerun, which was something we had not done before.

01:48:50

And thankfully we have like three years worth of podcasts. We can do that with now. But we've tried to be very consistent because thanks to your generosity and being able to be at a

01:49:01

Shepherd's conference, it gave me an entirely different perspective on what we've been doing, because I got to meet face to face some people who listen to program.

01:49:11

We're a small program, but the fact that you still get to even occasionally meet someone or talk to someone who has been impacted by the program, that changed my attitude greatly.

01:49:22

And I began to realize there was something that even though we may never have the massive reach of some of the other programs, which is entirely fine, we don't need that, anybody that listens,

01:49:34

God is using that for His purposes. And so I wanted us to be a bit more consistent about that. I take issue with what you said.

01:49:43

I am not generous. I take issue with that. There's no evidence.

01:49:50

Okay. Either one of you. No, no, there's no evidence. That same Facebook, Twitter stuff that Andrew was talking about, go back and look for the one where I show you the beautiful Crossway ESV preaching

01:50:02

Bible that I did not purchase, he did. So let's understand. You want to know what, but, but how did you say buttery soft, but buttery soft.

01:50:14

And that was the phrase that was used when the preacher's Bible came out and all the pastors went gaga over the goatskin leather and I went, now

01:50:22

I understand. I have mine right here. I, I love my

01:50:28

ESV goatskin. Um, actually I, I ended up,

01:50:34

I ended up getting a second one. Hold on because this one's the, the two has the two columns.

01:50:41

I like the one column and I ended up, um, getting to be able to get a second one because of someone look at, look at that, see, you got the, look at that, the one column, that's the one

01:50:50

I like better, the one column. So, uh, but I, I, I take issue with that.

01:50:57

I don't think there's evidence and I win. Um, everyone should go to Justin.

01:51:03

I win .com. Enjoy the videos. Enjoy the pictures and donate. Just saying donate to justinpeters .org.

01:51:12

Um, can I, Hey, Chris, do you, what do you think? Do you mind if I embarrass Justin Peters a bit?

01:51:19

Like I like whether I say yes or no will matter. Well, that's true. Let me give you some reasons.

01:51:26

You should go to Justin. I win .com and donate to Justin Peters. And just in the comments section, just put hashtag

01:51:32

Justin. I win, share it online so that people know you gave to him and that way more people can give to him.

01:51:37

But Justin, just this year, just, just this year, not the whole time you're ministered just this year.

01:51:44

When you think about how many countries you've been in, he's going to have to count this up. I already see that the gears are turning.

01:51:52

How many countries have you been in this year alone? Okay. Thus far

01:51:59

I've been in, um, Honduras, Philippines, Ukraine, um,

01:52:10

Canada. So I guess, and the

01:52:15

United States, well, yeah. Yeah. United States. So technically five, but, uh, four, four international, uh, international countries just this year.

01:52:27

Now listen, Ukraine, Uganda, Philippines.

01:52:33

Well, no, uh, not Uganda. Um, uh, Ukraine, Philippines and Honduras, Honduras.

01:52:39

Sorry, Honduras. Sorry. Okay. So just think about those places. Think about, okay.

01:52:44

Justin is in his motorized scooter, which doesn't work well in a lot of these places.

01:52:51

Okay. Um, let me tell you why I I'm going to,

01:52:56

I'm going to get myself in such trouble, Chris, and I'm going to, huh?

01:53:02

Don't roll me into this yours. I might need captain

01:53:07

America to bail me out of this one. Here's the reason

01:53:14

I would encourage you guys to donate to justinpeters .org. Okay. Every single one of you.

01:53:19

Those who are listening right now, as long as you're not driving, get onto the website, justinwin .com.

01:53:26

Okay. Go over there and send a donation. I'll tell you why. Let's get enough money together for Justin so that he could travel with someone so that he could take a ministry partner when he traveled.

01:53:39

I've been able to, I've been privileged enough to be able to travel with him on some of these things. And I can tell you he w he won't.

01:53:46

He's like, no, no, no. I could try to manage. He tries to manage everything in these places where,

01:53:51

I mean, we were joking earlier about them, lifting them up in a chair because he can't, you know, he can't walk long distances.

01:53:58

Um, yeah, he has the crutches for folks that don't know. Justin has cerebral palsy. I remember

01:54:05

I interviewed Phil Johnson on my rap report podcast, and we were talking afterwards because Phil was also supposed to be going to the

01:54:14

Ukraine. Not as long as Justin. He was going just for a shorter trip. And Phil Johnson said to me, he says, you know, for me to go to the

01:54:22

Ukraine is a big deal. It's a lot of effort. He goes, I don't know how Justin does this.

01:54:28

How does he go everywhere like this? Cause it's not designed for someone with his, his handicap.

01:54:36

Folks, if we could get enough money to Justin Peters ministries, maybe

01:54:42

Justin would be able to take captain America with him everywhere. There's no one better than captain

01:54:52

America. I'm just saying. If you could genuinely get captain America, go for it.

01:54:58

It could be Batman and captain America. I mean, what better duo? That's the team right there, right?

01:55:10

But, but in all seriousness, you know, a lot of these trips that Justin does, he does alone and you know, maybe we could donate enough money when he does these trips, um, he could take someone with him, have, have the resources to bring another person to be able to help them out.

01:55:28

Just a thought. So folks get out there right now, start donating, go to justiniewin .com, put in the, in the comments, hashtag justiniewin, because that gives me bragging rights in a back and forth battle that Justin and I've had over who could, who could outbless each other.

01:55:43

And so by doing that, you're basically giving me bragging rights over Justin that, uh,

01:55:49

I've, I've, you know, made sure that I win the battle of bragging rights by making sure I implore all of you to donate to Justin Peters.

01:55:58

Um, he tried to get me back. He, he, Justin, you bought a book, expensive book that you ever paid for, why don't you tell that story?

01:56:08

How you tried to get me back. Oh man. I, I don't want to sound like I'm, like I'm, uh, patting myself on the back.

01:56:20

After all the abuse I give you, see this, this is the advantage I have is he won't do it.

01:56:25

He just won't. Even if I give him abuse, I have, I have gotten way more people to donate to your ministry than what you paid for that book.

01:56:35

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I guess since you put it like that,

01:56:41

I mean, I, I did, um, we had a, you, when you were at our church, we had a, an auction for one of your books and, um, to go to the ministry, by the way, go to the ministry.

01:56:52

And I, I wanted to have some way to return to you by a token of my appreciation. And so Jim Osmond, our pastor, he started the bid.

01:57:01

I don't know what it was started five bucks or something like that. And a couple of people raised their hand and he went up to 10 and I raised my hand and like 15,

01:57:10

I raised my hand again. Then I just started outbidding myself. I just outbid myself cause

01:57:19

I wanted to, I wanted to return the favor. So I don't even know how every time he threw out a number,

01:57:26

I just kept raising my hand. It was like the best part of it was when you did that the first time and it dawned on him what's about to happen.

01:57:38

You realize Justin is getting you back. And we just, we looked at each other, looked at you and finally he's just like,

01:57:45

Justin, why don't you just save us some time? How high do you want to go? Instead of you outbidding yourself.

01:57:54

Like he's just like, is anyone else going to bid above this? No. So Justin, how much do you want to give?

01:58:02

Yeah, I think I quit bidding somewhere around 140 bucks for your book. I heard that I got your book, man.

01:58:10

Yeah, you got it. And for that much, I definitely signed it. I should have signed it, hashtag

01:58:19

Andrew, I win. Yeah. And he had no idea what

01:58:29

I was about to do. It was all on me. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason you're saying that is because when Jason Lyle was there, there was no auction for Jason's book.

01:58:36

And I was starting to think maybe there was some hanky -panky going on with you too, but no, no,

01:58:43

I think, I believe that he had no knowledge of what you were going to do. That's a different denomination,

01:58:49

Andrew. Hanky -panky? Oh, no. Did I say something

01:58:54

I don't know of? Oh, nevermind. Jason Lyle came out to Kootenai and you were with us,

01:59:04

Andrew. And I'll tell you, I've never met him in person. Well, I take that back. I met him very, very briefly about a year ago, just for like literally two minutes.

01:59:13

But I got to spend a little bit of time with him at Kootenai here last month or whatever it was ago.

01:59:19

And what a nice guy. What a really, really nice guy, humble guy.

01:59:25

I really like Dr. Lyle. He's a good guy. Yeah, he is. Very, very down to earth.

01:59:32

Yeah, he is. No pun intended for an astrophysicist. That really wasn't meant to be. As I said,

01:59:37

I'm like, yeah, whoops. Yeah. So let me say this as well.

01:59:43

Jason Manning in the chat, Justin, is saying that James White on the Dividing Line addressed the professor's letter to Justin Peters about the open letter to Beth Moore.

01:59:54

So that'll be something I'll have to listen to. I haven't heard that yet. Yeah, I actually did listen to it earlier today and James did a good job with it.

02:00:05

Yeah, I'm very glad that he addressed this. And we need to, this issue needs to get, it's gotten a lot of traction.

02:00:15

It needs to have more. I wish some big news sites would pick it up. Not like Drudge or anything, but like,

02:00:23

I don't know, Christian Post or Baptist Press or whatever is out there. I think this has a potential of offering a lot of clarification one way or the other.

02:00:36

But I really appreciate James talking about it. Well, I was already, I hadn't done it yet. I'm going to actually do it right now.

02:00:43

I actually know who is the man behind Christian News Network.

02:00:50

And so I'm going to send that to him and he'll do something with that.

02:00:57

Because they should. Yeah, yeah.

02:01:05

So I'll get that out to him if he hasn't seen it. But there's, let me refresh this page and see.

02:01:13

I mean, there's almost, as of now, three shy of 200 signatures of ladies.

02:01:20

And these are just ladies that are on, it's MichelleLeslie .com.

02:01:25

And if you go down to the post for June 19th is an open letter to Beth Moore.

02:01:31

Just search open letter to Beth Moore. You'll find, excuse me, MichelleLeslie. And you can sign on there.

02:01:40

So, and I agree with what Jason's saying. It does need to be up on the Drudge Report. I agree with you.

02:01:46

We should get it up there. Anyone know Matt Drudge? If anyone out there happens to know

02:01:51

Matt Drudge, please feel free to send that over to him.

02:01:57

I think that's actually what it would take. It would take like national news to pick it up. For the

02:02:02

SBC to go, oh no, oh no. This is a problem we actually have to address.

02:02:08

And we might need to deal with Beth Moore. Until the national news gives them a black eye,

02:02:16

I don't know that anything else is going to get them to respond. Yeah, I think

02:02:22

Baptist Press is probably too afraid to touch it. I don't know. Probably Christian Post too.

02:02:28

I wish they would. This has the potential of being earth -shaking in the evangelical world.

02:02:36

And, you know, hold on. Let me play this. The Southern Baptists, they actually did answer her open letter.

02:02:47

Oh no, that's just crickets. I'm sorry. Sorry about that. I thought there was actually an answer.

02:02:53

No. There was no answer. All right, so with that. So Justin, thanks for coming on.

02:03:00

You gave some clarity to the issue of women as pastors. The issue with Beth Moore in this open letter, which is,

02:03:10

I agree with you, it's very important. And I do think that it does need to be answered. I don't think she will, unfortunately.

02:03:18

And then, you know, some of the stuff with Word of Faith NAR, you are the expert in that area.

02:03:25

So we appreciate that. Any things, anything you're working on, any trips you're going on, anytimes doing anything you want to share with us about what's going on at Justin Peters Ministries?

02:03:37

Well, the podcast is coming. Getting final stages of getting my intro -outro working.

02:03:46

And so that is coming. I had a full, I was supposed to be in Brazil next month.

02:03:53

But I'm going to have to, I've got some surgery coming up. And I'm going to have to have some,

02:04:01

I've got some bad discs in my neck. So I'm going to have to probably have surgery in about three weeks or so, something like that.

02:04:09

So I'm going to have to take a little time off. But Lord willing, I should be back up and at them in a relatively short order.

02:04:17

So I've got a pretty busy fall schedule coming up. And speaking at the Truth Matters Conference, I think they still have some openings for that.

02:04:26

And that'd be great for people to come out for that. Looking forward to that. So yeah, podcast and surgery and all this, all that.

02:04:36

But do have some projects in the works. I'm going to write a mini -book on the spiritual death of Jesus, which that's a whole other, we won't get into that.

02:04:44

But that's a whole other issue. So anyway. Well, that's good. That's some good stuff.

02:04:50

And so the first podcast is? Is what?

02:04:56

When? Well, I don't know. It should be, it should be, honestly,

02:05:03

I'm hoping it should be within, let's say, let's say a week. It should be coming up within a week or so.

02:05:10

All right. And you and I need to work on getting you on more than just iTunes. But Chris, since you're on,

02:05:17

I don't know if you've seen in the chat, but one of your faithful, probably, I'm going to guess, you'll correct me if you think

02:05:24

I'm wrong, but probably one of your most faithful listeners, KT. She says

02:05:30

Chris and Rich should have Andrew on as a guest or Justin or both. So just a thought.

02:05:37

We would love to have Justin on. I'll be glad to come on. Be my honor.

02:05:47

Definitely, we should set that up. You should have him on. So anything going on with Voice of Reason Radio you want to share?

02:05:55

Nothing, you know, earth shattering. Nothing that we're, you know, we don't have nearly the busy schedule that Justin has.

02:06:03

We're just trying to be a bit more, as we said earlier, trying to be a bit more consistent and trying to, you know, get more programs out and be more diligent to interact with the folks who listen to the program.

02:06:18

So we've been very grateful for that. By the way, yeah, I think we did pick up at least a dozen listeners, thanks to you, like hawking my show all around Shepherds Conference.

02:06:28

So thank you for that, by the way. Only a dozen? Well, you have to remember, we started out three years ago.

02:06:34

We were thrilled to see double digits in a week. Now we see somewhere anywhere from about 75 to 100 in a week in that first week when a show drops.

02:06:43

So we're absolutely thrilled. And we did see a little bit of a bump come up from that, from Shepherds Conference.

02:06:48

So thank you for the free advertisement. It was fantastic. I've got to work harder at this.

02:06:55

I'm not happy. I wanted to see at least 100. Okay. Truth Matters is coming up.

02:07:01

Maybe I'll get a banner. Listen to Voice of Reason Radio. Don't do that.

02:07:06

They probably will throw you off the campus. So we're just going to continue to try to do that and try to be more faithful to the listeners.

02:07:15

This week, like I said, we actually recorded early so that we would have something to drop tomorrow. Because I've been in training all week and next week for my career field.

02:07:26

As we continue to do that and as God makes more opportunity for us to be getting more information and more involvement,

02:07:34

I'm hoping to actually sit down and start writing again. I got complete writer's block at one point, just completely afraid of the keyboard.

02:07:42

And so hoping to get back into that and start putting more content on our website as well. All right.

02:07:48

And your website is? SlaveToTheKing .com All right. So folks, be praying for Justin as you heard about the surgery.

02:07:58

He was in the Philippines with pain, not complaining at all. And, you know, this is the kind of guy he is.

02:08:07

So please, if you could, seriously, donate over there to him. I know a bunch of folks were given super chats in here that goes to Karim, but go and donate to Justin.

02:08:17

All right. If you can, we would all really appreciate that. And so that would be great.

02:08:24

So in closing, just to let you know, this is part of a ministry of Striving for Eternity. If you want to check out some of the stuff we have, you could go to strivingforeternity .org.

02:08:33

We are part of the Christian Podcast Community. And you can go to christianpodcastcommunity .org, see our growing list of podcasts.

02:08:41

I think we're up to like 10 or 12. We've kind of put everyone on hold for a little while because we've had way too many coming in too quickly.

02:08:50

And we actually had to put them on hold until I'll be headed to California in a week, be out there doing some work with Living Waters and leading some teams, doing some evangelism.

02:09:03

And so then we'll be down in San Diego area for a week. And then when we get back, we're going to start ramping that up.

02:09:10

We have, I think, three or four podcasts that are in different stages of being added to the community.

02:09:18

So we have a number of new ones. I should, right now, as I think about this,

02:09:24

I should list off some of the ones that we have. So we have Andrew Rapport's Rapp Report.

02:09:30

I wonder who does that one. Yeah. We have Andrew Rapport's Daily Rapp Report.

02:09:37

And that is a two -minute Monday through Friday. So the other one, the first one is a longer one, where this week, for those who are watching this live,

02:09:47

I will have Michelle Leslie on, who we've been talking about that open letter. She and I will talk about that.

02:09:53

My daily, we're going through a series of encouragement, trying to encourage people with encouragement. Didache with Justin Peters.

02:10:02

Didache. There's one episode out there right now letting you know it's coming soon. We have been waiting anxiously.

02:10:10

Theology Gals, a couple of Reformed gals who talk a lot of different issues.

02:10:16

They're targeted toward ladies, but a lot of good content on there. Apologetics Live, that's this show.

02:10:23

So You Want to Be a Podcaster, that is, well, kind of as the name says, for podcasters. Good one to listen to if you are a podcaster.

02:10:30

We have Five Solas Podcast. Their host was in here earlier, James Watkins. Five Sola, hmm.

02:10:37

Wonder if they're Reformed. Hmm, hard to tell. What are we even doing here with Daryl and Karen Updike?

02:10:47

They are folks here in New Jersey, and they just sit around their kitchen table quite literally and talk about different issues.

02:10:54

We've recently added The Way Radio with Chad Pridmore. If you're not familiar with Chad, he's got a very different way of dealing with addiction.

02:11:02

He's got an addiction ministry. He's a pastor, and his way of dealing with addiction is they go through the

02:11:09

Heidelberg Catechism. That's right. He actually thinks the Bible has the answer to addiction.

02:11:16

Crazy idea. The newest one that we have is Everyday Ministry Podcast with James White.

02:11:25

No, no, no. Sorry. The other James White. Not Dr. James White. This is the non -Dr.

02:11:31

James White, but it's a good show. Some guys that are in ministry sit around, talk about different issues with ministry.

02:11:38

We have two affiliates. The affiliates mean that they don't host with us, but they still get some of the benefits of being in the community, and they offer some of that, and that is the

02:11:47

Blue Stocking Baptist. So if those of you who say, well, theology gals, I like talking theology as a gal, but I'm not

02:11:55

Presbyterian. Well, this is the Baptist version. So you got that. They got a great series on Mormonism, by the way, that they did.

02:12:01

And then for someone like Chris Honholz, this will be a special one. If he hasn't been listening to this, and Chris will make fun of me because this is clearly not a show for me.

02:12:11

Are you just watching with Eve Franklin and Tim Martin? They do a monthly show where every month they will review, from a

02:12:20

Christian perspective, some movie. I think the most recent one they did was, what's the

02:12:27

Genie one? Aladdin. So they just did that one. They did Marvel Endgame, which

02:12:34

I actually saw. I saw and I posted on there that I watched Marvel Endgame, and Chris, you'll be appreciative to know that Eve Franklin said basically the same thing that you said, basically the same thing that everybody said, that if I was going to try to understand

02:12:49

Marvel Endgame, I was 20 movies too late, because that was like the end game, and I didn't understand any of the plot, because it was all laid out in 20 other movies that I didn't watch.

02:13:04

But now I don't have to watch. I can just go to Are You Just Watching? and learn about the movies, so that I can talk as if I know something about them.

02:13:14

All right, so thanks guys for coming on. Check out all those podcasts.

02:13:20

Appreciate them. Check out Voice of Reason Radio as well. They're not part of the community yet.

02:13:28

Just throwing that out there, you know. Like I don't promote you enough.

02:13:37

All right, thanks guys. Thanks everyone for listening. I hope this was informative to you. If it was, would you consider sharing this episode?