Ed Shaw, Church Split, Provisionism

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:34

Well, greetings, welcome to the Dwelling Line. This just popped up on my Twitter feed.

00:41

How many trucks can Trudeau tow if the tow trucks won't tow trucks? How many trucks can

00:51

Trudeau tow if the tow trucks won't tow trucks? That's classic.

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He's gotten 54 .5K likes on that. Will Chamberlain is who posted that.

01:06

Congratulations, very good. Well done. I just want him to go to Washington, D .C.

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That's what I want to see. Trudeau is just such a beta male,

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I don't even know how to describe him. But what would Joe do? Don't even know,

01:29

I don't even want to. Anyway, welcome to the program. I am safely ensconced in the woods of East Texas, somewhere out here, and I have made the commitment.

01:43

I have made the commitment. I made the wrong choice last night. I made a wrong choice last night.

01:50

I stepped out of my unit here and I looked up and most of the sky is obscured with tree branches, but right outside my unit,

02:01

I could look up, it was clear, and there was Orion. And that means those of you with better eyes than mine, look, let's say you're a city dweller.

02:16

Okay, fine, I understand you're a city dweller. But once in a while, you get out, right?

02:24

Once in a while, you get out of the city. If you find yourself out in a dark, dark place, far away from the city, light pollution today is just unbelievable.

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And out here, there just is not a major city within 50 miles of any direction.

02:46

You get out here in the quiet, I think this will bother some people, in the quiet and the darkness on a clear night.

02:55

If you've got better eyesight than I can, you look at the constellation, Orion. Everyone can find

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Orion. You see the belt, those three stars that form his belt, you know, and he's got the arrow and he's got his legs and they're sort of bent and stuff like that.

03:14

I guess it would be the back, rearward, the back leg, and what would be, in essence, the knee.

03:25

Even I, with my eyesight, can see something there. On a real good night,

03:30

I can see something. That's where the nebula is.

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And with even, all I carry is this tiny little, it's a four and a half inch scope, I mean, that's nothing. And that's because I have to keep it light, you know?

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If I wanted to carry my big scope, that baby weighs 65, 70 pounds.

03:51

That's a lot of weight to put in something that you're towing for thousands of miles. Anyway, even with my four and a half inch scope,

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I will see color variations and gradations and that thing.

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And it is simply one of the most beautiful things in the sky that you can see from the

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Northern Hemisphere. Albireo, the dual star, which may not be a dual star, and then

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Orion's nebula. Just do yourself a favor. Find out what God has hidden in the skies above you.

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And there's something honestly pleasing about recognizing that no matter what happens in Ukraine, no matter what happens with COVID, that beautiful thing has been up there from creation till now, and will be until the

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Lord pleases to do something with it. But it's a, there's a, in fact, go on YouTube and look up Orion flyby.

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NASA did a thing where they created a flyby video where you go through the nebula.

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Obviously that's fake. No one's been through the nebula. It's like 1400 light years away.

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But they took various shots from like, because most of what you see in published pictures, in magazines, online, stuff like that, is not in the visible light spectrum.

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It's primarily ultraviolet, infrared, stuff like that. And the colors have been artificially assigned as well.

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But they took all of that and glommed it all together and did a bird's eye run through.

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It's gorgeous. They also picked beautiful classical music to go with it. They didn't, that's, what else would you use?

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Anyway, look it up. It's beautiful, but I'm going to tell you something. I've shown people, and the park here is pretty quiet, so I doubt anyone's going to go wandering by, but I've said many times, if you want to do full -time,

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RV park evangelism, you could. You really could.

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Set up a telescope out there, and everybody walking a dog is going to come over and want to take a look at Saturn, Jupiter, whatever you're focusing on.

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But I've seen so many people who've seen this stuff in the magazine, online, but when they see it through the telescope, they go, oh, it's much smaller.

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It's much smaller, but it's with your own eye. You look up, and you see what you're looking at, and you look, changes everything.

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Changes everything. And people just love it. They remember that. So do it. Just take my advice and do it.

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You need to have that moment. Anyhow, I'm sorry.

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I even told somebody else could do this, something that was top of the hour, and I didn't do it. And I apologize for that.

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But that's what happens when stuff appears on the screen in front of me, and then I start wandering around and breathing cool, fresh air, and not hearing sirens, not hearing jet planes.

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Evidently, there aren't any airports around here either. And you know what?

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I bet my blood pressures, five, 10 points, blow what it would be in another situation.

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I gotta admit, this would be a great place to write a book at. I gotta, I'm gonna keep this one in my list.

07:46

It'd be a great place to write a book at. All right. Sadly, we have to leave the happy place where I have been to look at a dear friend of mine.

08:03

I'm not gonna force him into, he's a public figure, so I'm not gonna force him into the middle of this until he wants to be in the middle of it.

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Well, he is in some ways already. But anyhow, a dear friend of mine sent me this clip, and I listened to it, and he said, what do you think of this?

08:18

And I listened to it, and I'm like, oh, man. I can either sit here and type up a few sentences, or I can do this on the dividing line tomorrow and hopefully bless other people at the same time.

08:29

And he said, that'd be fun. But then I'm like, so who is this? Because there wasn't anything in what was sent to me that identified who this is.

08:39

Well, it turned out to be Ed Shaw. And as soon as I saw the name Ed Shaw, I went, I think that this is a guy with living out that Tom Buck specifically focused on about 18 months ago -ish when he was dealing with Sam Albury's relationship to something in the

09:12

SBC, I thought. But he is a quote -unquote homosexual

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Christian, and as you will see, very much British. And so it's like a one -minute clip.

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It's not long. But to say, I told you so, doesn't mean a whole lot because if you remember back when two, three years ago, there was all discussion going on because all these people promoting celibate homosexuality as a gift from God, blah, blah, blah, blah.

09:52

We kept saying, it's not gonna stop here. It can't stay here.

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This is a fundamental departure from a recognition that what

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God's law says is good, is good, and what God's law says is to -way -vah, is destructive, period.

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There's nothing more to it than that. And so just listen.

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And what's worse is evidently this podcast is for homosexual kids, and this guy is writing for TGC Australia.

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Now, I know TGC Australia isn't TGC US or Canada, but have we not learned anything yet?

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What starts out there in those places that are farther to our left, just a matter of time, just a matter of time.

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So let's listen in and then respond to this. And so actually the first time

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I was asked this question in quite a direct way, I was on a panel sort of slightly recovering from the question and a friend of mine stepped in and said, why are we so afraid of this?

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He said, some of the Christians I most love and admire and I most want my children to be like are gay and they are godly and like Jesus because they're gay.

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He's used that to help them become more godly and Christ -like. And if actually our biggest desire is for our kids to be like Jesus, why are we so troubled about the idea of their sexuality not being normal?

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Because God seems to take and use really powerful things like sexuality in people to help them become more and more like Jesus.

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So once he said that, I was sort of recovering from the question and stuck on what I said as well, but I found that really helpful because I think, yes, actually, my sexuality is the thing that God has most used to help me grasp the gospel, to help me grasp my need for the gospel, but also to help me grasp the power of the gospel.

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And so, you know, if you rewind back to my child and said, you know, take away the gay, do you want to?

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I'd probably go, I'd be thinking, well, do I want God to take away the thing that has made me more and more like him and help me grasp the gospel more?

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And we need to really believe as Christian parents, you know, that Romans 8, 28 verse that God can take and use all things for the good of those that love him, including confusion over sexuality or gender, including long -term same -sex attraction or gender dysphoria.

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Now, notice the utilization of language that is used there.

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I think it's really, really important because the people that are bringing this into the church, they're incredibly intelligent individuals.

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They speak very well, and they use language very purposefully. Because see, you could take what was just said, and if you substituted something like something

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God had brought into someone's life, like being a quadriplegic, having a tremendous physical challenge, that obviously forces a person to be completely reliant upon others, upon God.

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You're never gonna have physically the things that other people have. If you replace that, then much of what was said would make sense.

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Because a very wise person once said to me, she, her husband has a physical issue, and her husband had said, why me, why do

13:55

I have to go through this? And her response was, because you will never be more like Jesus than you will be because you're going through this, which is brilliantly insightful.

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So what they always do is they grab hold of an element of truth. And that element of truth might be so strong that it results in the normal discernment process to become short -circuited.

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Because now, if what this person was saying is, I do not identify as a homosexual,

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I do not allow myself to be defined in this fashion, I am a Christian, I realize that same -sex attraction is displeasing to my

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Lord, that the acting out upon these desires is something that Christ died for the forgiveness of amongst his own people.

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Such were some of you, as Paul said to the Corinthians. And if the context was, there is, to be more like Christ is to recognize that the law, even yes, the law of Moses came from his hands.

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If, remember Genesis 18 and 19? When Yahweh and the two angels come to visit

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Abram, remember? And the two angels go into Sodom and Gomorrah, and we know what happens there.

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And Abram in physical, and Yahweh in physical manifestations, walking with Abram by the

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Oaks of Mamre. And that's when Abram's doing the, what if there's 50 righteous people?

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He knows there's not 50 righteous people in Sodom. He's been there. 40, and he's doing the negotiation thing.

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And the two angels, you know what happens, the men surround the house and bring them out that we might know them, yada.

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This was not the welcome wagon, these people were not looking to welcome them to the community.

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This was very, very clear. And when Lot says, do not do this evil thing, oh, they lose it, and they start trying to break through the door, and the angels strike them all blind.

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And the amazing thing is, a lot of people miss. Even once they are struck blind, they still try to find the door.

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I remember that first shipment. It was in writing the same sex controversy.

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And I wrote the chapter on the Sodom and Gomorrah saga. And I'm looking at that text, and all of a sudden,

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I realized, this is saying, even when they were struck blind, they didn't stop and go, what we're doing is obviously wrong, because,

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I mean, at first, you'd think you're the only one that was struck blind, right? But as you start listening to people crying out around you, you would realize, we've all been struck blind.

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And so if there was any rationality left, everybody would go, uh -oh,

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Lot was right. What we're doing is evil. We need to repent. Doesn't happen.

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They continue trying to find the door. And the, you know how you're in the woods in East Texas?

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You hear somebody shooting somewhere off about five miles away, it's like going to Georgia, preaching in Georgia after church on Sunday, you go shooting.

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That's just sort of how that works. So the angels deliver

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Lot, his family. And then what happens? Yahweh on earth, the

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Yahweh who has been meeting with Abram, who came with the two angels, rains fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah from Yahweh in heaven.

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It's not that there are two Yahwehs. You can't have multiple Yahwehs. But there is a pre -incarnate picture of what's going to happen.

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This is Jesus. This is what Jesus said in John chapter eight. Abram rejoiced.

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Abram saw my day and rejoiced and was glad. When did that happen? I think it's Genesis 18 and 19.

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So the same Jesus who rained fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah was the same

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Jesus that gave the law that contains Leviticus 18 and 20 and so many other passages as well.

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And so if you're going to be like Jesus, then you are going to love his law.

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You're going to love the holiness of God. And you're going to hate that, which God says is an abomination in his sight, right?

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And so when someone says this has made me more like Jesus, well, if what's being said is

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I have dedicated myself to fighting this temptation and I am in no way, shape or form saying that this is acceptable in God's sight and it is to evah, it is an abomination and I have become more like Christ because I honor his law and I honor his holiness, then you could make an argument there.

20:30

From what I've read, this guy has said some pretty amazing stuff.

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So for example, Ed Shaw tells parents on Gay Kids Podcast, this is

20:47

Reformation Charlotte, not to desire their kids be straight because God uses homosexuality and transgenderism to make them more like Christ.

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Now, I didn't hear anything in this one little clip. I didn't listen to the whole thing about transgenderism.

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You can't even start to go there as a Christian. You can't even begin to go there.

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And then there was something else. Yeah, and here is a direct quotation posted by TGC Australia.

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I want young people to know that Jesus is the one person that they can fully trust with their sexualities, identities and gender because he is both their creator

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God and a human who knows what it's like to grapple with asexuality. Okay, so many wrong things right there.

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Okay, fully trust with their sexualities. No, if you're a

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Christian, you recognize Jesus as your creator and he made you male or female. Okay, so the first thing is to trust that he got it right the first time, okay?

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Identities, no, identity is defined by Christ, defined by scripture. And gender, again, same thing.

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Because he is both their creator God, quite true, and a human who knows what it's like to grapple with asexuality.

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What, what? He was a human being, but there is nothing that says he grappled with asexuality.

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This is perversity. It truly, and it comes slowly.

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And it often comes from people who are trying to hold things that are disparate, that can't be brought together.

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And that's what's going on here. That is amazing.

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And then it's also said that he says it's good for families to invite gay married couples over for dinner and expose their children to them.

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That is perversity, that is perversity. What children need to see are loving mothers and fathers.

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There is no such thing as a married couple of two men, two women. We have to stand there,

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Jesus taught it. It is not loving. It is not possible to go to that point.

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Once you've gone there, you've got, there's no stopping place, you've jumped off the cliff.

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There's no place, there's no place to even hit a rock on the way down. It's done, it's over.

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So to say it's made me more like Jesus makes me go, you're making Jesus in your own image.

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We're not talking about the Jesus of the New Testament. We're not talking about the Jesus who is the one who gives us the law and who honors that law by dying on the cross so that God's holiness is demonstrated, his wrath is fulfilled, his justice is established, and his love and mercy are forever known.

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And obviously in our day, that wrath, justice, power, that part, we need to contextualize that.

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There's a serious problem there, a serious problem. So I wanted to respond to that.

24:50

I was close to time. Wanted to, where'd that one go?

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There it is. I wanted to share some, just a beautiful, encouraging these brothers, obviously, just have my best at heart.

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Yesterday, I think it was yesterday or two days ago, Will Hess of the church split.

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Now, I was on their program last year. And it seems to me, honestly, that at least for Will, he may have like a multiple personality thing going on here because he wasn't like this with me.

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Not even close. He was quite nice when I was on. But I noticed that he was on with other guys at that particular point in time.

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About the only other person around here just drove by. It's just, there's really not anybody else around.

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I mean, there are two units over there, but, three, okay. Anyway, but then it becomes quiet again.

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It's lovely, it's wonderful. But everything's dirt road. There's no pavement here. Anyway, he was quite nice to me.

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Maybe it's because the other guys were on or something like that. I don't know. But they did mention that he wasn't reformed and that's fine.

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I'm like, okay. But he and David Paulman, David Paulman's popping up everywhere.

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He's a busy, busy, busy, very, very, very young man. And so they decided to do a review of the

26:46

Potters' Freedom, which they wanted to make sure to emphasize, had nothing to do with the fact that David Paulman did a hot take recently, where he basically said that myself, my fellow pastor,

27:06

Jeff Durbin, Saiten Bruggenke, and basically all modern presuppositionalists are shallow thinkers, not original thinkers.

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I didn't really respond to almost any of that. I mean, my motto is, you look at what someone's done in their life and if what they've done in their life merits giving consideration to their criticism, then fine.

27:40

And if not, then why bother? And that was the whole point of a single little comment on Facebook that, if I recall, had two sentences in it.

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Maybe a sentence, maybe it was just a complex sentence. Maybe it was only one. But anyways, two sentences, tiny little thing, that include the graphic completely from David Paulman.

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He put this, this is from his own Facebook page. Anyway. So they want everybody to know this has nothing to do with any of that.

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It just only happens to be, you know. Now, a couple things. I'm gonna play it.

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I'm gonna share. I need to find Zoom here. I'm going to share it so we can watch it.

28:29

But there'll be a few interesting things. I'm not gonna play a whole bunch of it, just a couple of minutes.

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But you'll notice that they both have the old edition of the book. They don't have the updated edition of the book.

28:43

Update's been out for, what, about 10 years? Something like that. But I'll make a few comments along the way, and then we'll move on to something significantly more important and interesting.

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But let's, now the question is whether you're gonna be able to hear this well.

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And I'm trying to remember. What did

29:14

I do with the sound last time? Well, let's,

29:21

I'll just sort of watch Rich here, and if he's going, I can't hear it, then we'll figure out something from there.

29:30

Something along those lines. Okay, so let's start with this one. Share. You got it?

29:39

All right, here we go. In a nutshell, I made a post a week ago yesterday, yeah, basically saying that I thought that basically

29:51

Calvinists and precepts, most of their scholars were kind of shallow, or at least a lot of them, a lot of the prominent ones were.

30:00

And yeah, it was an exhortation for them, don't be taken in by rigor that tells you.

30:06

Okay, Rich, you're holding up a microphone. What does that mean? So we're gonna get the sound up off your mic, so.

30:13

Yeah, I just, I don't know how else, I don't know how else to do it. Maybe point your mic down a little bit toward the.

30:18

Yeah, I don't know how to fix that, or how to route it any other way, so. Tell us what you wanna hear, make sure there's actually sound representation behind it.

30:27

And it was just a short post, it was like. Okay, now let's correct this. The hot take, while it was a short post, did not just say that.

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It specifically said that Greg Bonson was not a particularly original thinker.

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And you know, one of the sad things is, I only saw one person that had the insight to go, theologians should not be original thinkers.

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They should be clear thinkers, they should be submissive to the word of God, but the most dangerous theologians in the world have always been those who decided that they could come up with something that no one had ever come up with before.

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When, and that's the danger of quote unquote Christian scholarship, is, oh,

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I'm gonna come up with something that no one else has ever come up with, and that's gonna, I'm gonna prove how bright and brilliant I am.

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But then the key to what he said, oh, I'm sorry. Well, very quickly, the key to what he said was they're only popular because of their rhetorical skills.

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So Greg Bonson, it wasn't because of the debates he did and the depth of the things, and it was because of rhetorical skills, same with me or Jeff Durbin or anything else.

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So he didn't sort of mention that little part of his attack upon people who have been engaged in,

32:01

I mean, you put me and Jeff and Greg and the rest of the people he mentioned together in hundreds and hundreds of situations of defending the gospel and things like that.

32:12

He didn't sort of mention that part. One paragraph, it was a hot take. I didn't really think much was gonna come of it, but yeah, some people in the

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Calvinist community didn't like it, most notably Dr. James White, who, yeah, more or less, he made a big long post about it.

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And - Did you all see the big long post?

32:38

You didn't, because they didn't write a big long post. Like I said, it was either a run -on sentence or two sentences with a graphic, and it was a

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Facebook comment. How do urban legends get started?

32:52

I don't know, but that's all I said. And once everything blew up, then

33:00

I've addressed it here on the program. This has all happened, like I said, over the past week. I've been a little busy with lots of other things, some about which you know, and some about which you don't, but I've been sort of busy with other things.

33:15

How'd that become a big long post? It was a single comment. It was, it was in a, Facebook comments just hardly count for anything.

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Anyways. It just was that because I work at Dillard's and I'm under 25 that, you know, my opinion just can't count for anything.

33:34

So just so - Okay, so that's not what I said. That is not what

33:39

I said. That's a lie. I mean, this kid's making stuff up. I did not say that.

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I put what he has on his own Facebook page. And I said, why?

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And I'm, cause I'm talking to my fellow, why do we care? Why did people write all this stuff up about Greg Bonson and everything else?

34:03

Why do we care? But that's not what I said.

34:10

The graphic included what he had. There was no editing. It's just, here's what, here's how he described himself.

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And my point was, he describes himself as an Arminian, as an evidentialist. What do you expect as far as a fair analysis of Greg Bonson's work?

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But then to say, oh, it's just all because they're good speakers. From someone who has zero standing, no standing whatsoever.

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That's all it was about. And notice how things change. And he's not gonna get challenged here, but things change.

34:52

And it's just like, that was only last week. How can things all of a sudden get changed like this?

35:00

So people know this review doesn't have anything to do with that controversy. This, we've been planning this since last year.

35:08

This is just when we finally got all of our notes together on it. And so yeah, it has nothing to do with that.

35:15

It has nothing to do with hating on James White. But there'll definitely be some sassiness and some spiciness.

35:22

I can guarantee that. Well, of course, this is the church split. If there's no spiciness, is there any reason to watch it?

35:29

No, that's one thing we did wanna make clear. We were planning this as 2021, folks, okay?

35:37

But hey, if it makes y 'all come out and check us out, that's cool.

35:43

Otherwise, David is a long friend of the channel. So we've had him on a couple of times, and we'll probably continue to have good relations with him.

35:53

So of course, check out his YouTube channel, Faith Because of Reason, because that's also another thing that you got accused of never citing the work in your post.

36:01

Like you never cited Benson. He never cited any of these people, Mike. Who? Ezra Taft Benson, maybe the prophet of the

36:09

Mormon church. I don't, who is Benson? Oh, you mean Greg Bonson.

36:16

Oh, yeah, we did talk about him, but that sort of tells me you,

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Will, have no idea who we're talking about, do you? You have no way of knowing whether what he said was even slightly truthful, which everybody who knows

36:33

Bonson knows it wasn't. It was an untruthful statement. It was a foolish statement. He should have immediately withdrawn and said, man,

36:40

I was doing something I shouldn't have done that night, or something like that. But Benson?

36:48

Yeah, Greg Benson. I remember the great Greg Benson -Gordon Stein debate. This sort of tells me that you've not listened to any of his lectures, read any of his books on any of the broad range of topics that he addressed, from eschatology to biblical law to his

37:09

PhD in self -deception and everything in between.

37:18

Really? Okay. No, he just has an hour -long video citing all these people and talking about the problems within their thinking, so, but that's not my business.

37:30

Okay, that's just false. I mean, it's just, silly? I mean, why even bother doing this?

37:37

I don't know. I have no earthly idea. I do not believe that Paulman has any meaningful grasp of the breadth of Bonson's material.

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I don't. If he does, then what he said was even more culpable than it was.

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But I happened to know someone on Twitter, and he linked to three lectures on eschatology and said he was listening to that.

38:15

I was listening to the same three while I was driving to this very place. And Bonson was a great speaker, but that was because he really could organize his thoughts and could bring a great deal of background information to bear that was very, very useful.

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And so I go to Bonson Yu, Apology at Church, was given all of his seminary lectures.

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There's a massive amount of information out there. And I cannot tell you how many people have told me that they literally learned more from spending hours just listening to Bonson than they had going to most of the seminaries that are around today.

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And that's the reality. And I just hope the

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Lord will use this to direct those that he wants to direct it to, to listen to Greg and find out.

39:12

He was taken from us at a young age, and who knows how much more he could have done had he been given,

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I mean, I've lived longer than him. So, yeah. So, yeah, that's the thing there.

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Also, we are, of course, we're gonna be getting spicy because we are both ardently not

39:36

Calvinistic. I'm sure David and I have disagreements theologically somewhere, but the point is, is that when

39:42

I'm gonna be giving from my perspective, he'll be given from his perspective, and we'll just go from there. Is there anything else you wanted to share,

39:48

David? Yeah, a couple of things. So, yeah, you gave one of those qualifiers that we are both non -Calvinists, and so even if we have some differences, like I'm very much a classical

39:59

Arminian, you're sort of like a Molinist Arminian, even though I don't oppose Molinism. I feel like you might make a little more use of it than I do, and that's totally fine, but some of that may come out in how we interpret some of the biblical passages and stuff.

40:13

I think I'm a little friendlier to being okay with using the term total depravity. I think you'll wanna shy away from that, you know?

40:20

And that's okay, we'll give our nuances and our understandings. The point is, we're two non -Calvinists coming together and reviewing this book, which we should also probably talk about a little bit why we picked this book, because this is not the best defense of Calvinism out there.

40:38

People who really wanna understand Calvinism, not the first book I'm gonna point you to. The reason we're reviewing it is because it's so popular out there among people in the

40:49

Calvinist community. It's like the book that's meant to defend it, and so the reason we're going after it is not so much because we think that this is the best that the

40:57

Calvinists have to offer. At least for my part, it's just because it's so popular. It's like William Lane Craig going after the

41:04

God Delusion, not because it was a great book defending atheism, but because it was a bestseller, right?

41:09

So that's similar to the mindset that we have here. We're going after what could be considered low -hanging fruit, just because it might be low -hanging fruit, but it's popular fruit, so.

41:21

Low -hanging fruit, I see. I hope eventually they'll mention that it's, of course, defined by the book that it is rebutting, chosen but free by Norman Geisler, but low -hanging fruit.

41:36

Just keep that one in mind. When we get around to doing some Radio Free Geneva's and examining the exegesis of this young man, remember, it's low -hanging fruit.

41:47

Oh, that's why it needs to be addressed. I agree with that, and that's exactly why we've talked about, because it's always that and Sproul.

41:52

Those are two, it's always James White's book and that Sproul said this. Those are the two things. Oddly enough,

41:58

Sproul does the forward in the book. Really? That wasn't

42:03

R .C. Sproul. That was R .C. Sproul Jr. That's his son. It wasn't R .C. And Will doesn't seem to know the difference between the two of them, which does not shock me or surprise me at all, but that is a little embarrassing.

42:16

Which is just funny. So I'm like, oh, of course he does. So yeah, this is, like you said, it's because it's extremely popular in the

42:22

Calvinist community. And I'm not gonna lie, when I first picked up this book, so I'm not a Calvinist and I was for a long time going there's no way

42:29

I'll probably ever be a Calvinist. But if the textual evidence, if someone could convince me of it,

42:35

I will be one. I just feel like there's a lot of issues within it. So when I picked up this book,

42:41

I was - Okay, I'm gonna leave the rest of that for later on. Sorry, because I really want to get to something a little bit more in depth.

42:50

But that's the nature of the, so we got low -hanging fruit. You know, when you haven't done anything, it's real easy to shoot at folks.

43:07

But it just sort of seems like, well, let's double down on this stuff. Let's not show that we have gone, well, you know, maybe

43:14

I did overstate. No, we'll just double down and there you go.

43:20

Anyhow, I saw a clip that was posted last night.

43:31

And I was like, I need to find this. And I'm gonna tell you something,

43:37

I am so thankful. I try to be thankful for stuff, but I am so thankful. I am thankful for the transcript function on YouTube because there's a clip from Leighton Flowers.

43:55

And as normal, it's two hours and 11 minutes, two hour and 11 minute long video. And it's only a short clip.

44:04

How in the world are you supposed to find it? I'm not gonna even bother. And what you used to have to do is extract the sound, play it at 1 .8,

44:13

but still you're wasting nearly an hour's worth of time trying to find something. With that transcript thing, you just pop up the transcript, copy it, stick it in a word processor, find a particular phrase, word that was used in the quote you want, boom, there it was.

44:31

That is so, it's hard for us to realize how fast information can now be accessed.

44:43

In comparison, it's not, in some ways it's great. In other ways, it's not very good at all.

44:48

I'll be honest with you. But I found it. And so I grabbed it.

44:56

And so I'm going to play you a section from, from Layton Flowers here.

45:07

I just want you to, I want you to think about this. Okay, ready? Here we, here we go.

45:17

And Ian, you put over here two plus two is four. I think you were commenting on, that's the truth statement.

45:25

It's something, we can believe that, right? We can believe two plus two is four. Can we believe Jesus is the son of God who died for our sins?

45:32

It's just as true as two plus two is four. It's for some reason, God by nature made us able to acknowledge and believe two plus two is four.

45:40

But for some reason, our nature is incapable of believing the truth statement that Jesus Christ is the son of a living

45:45

God who died for our sins. Okay, so there's, there's your, there's your statement.

45:57

Most, most of us, upon seeing that, recognize the amazing categorical problem of a man who, again,

46:12

I just point out to you, he still, as far as I know, he still advertises himself as a former

46:19

Calvinist professor and almost anyone who's reformed.

46:28

Another man, he just died. It's not target shooting.

46:35

Is it, is it Sunday season right now? I guess it might be, I don't know. But I think someone just got, got dinner.

46:46

It starts to be coming closer too. If I dodge it out of the way here, you'll know, you know what's, what's going on.

46:52

Anyways, Leighton makes statements like this that make all of us who have been reformed for a period of time just go, really?

47:04

Two plus two equals four is a truth statement. It's true. But the heart of stone in the unregenerate individual is not challenged in his rebellion and in his self -claimed autonomy by the statement two plus two equals four.

47:30

But to say that Jesus Christ is the son of God is to threaten the autonomy and the continued rebellion of the simple heart.

47:42

And not only that, but the Apostle Paul specifically taught that no one can say what apart from the

47:50

Holy Spirit. Jesus is Lord. Isn't that just a truth statement?

47:58

Isn't that just like two plus two equals four? And yet we're told biblically that to say that meaningfully, to say that with faith requires the work of the

48:13

Holy Spirit of God. Now, I don't know if, I've never heard Leighton address that issue.

48:21

I don't see how his system could allow him to actually believe that you would have to have the work of the

48:32

Spirit of God to be able to express true saving faith that Jesus is

48:38

Lord. Because choice meats don't need to have some special spiritual activity in their life to be able to say those things, because they're choice meats.

48:54

They've already humbled themselves. They're already better than other people. So what

49:00

I wanted to do is I wanted to consider in light of this kind of provisionist confusion of categories, a beautiful text, awesome text.

49:18

And we're gonna go to the text, and I don't know that I'm gonna be wasting my time bringing myself back on and all the rest of that stuff.

49:27

So sorry, if it works out that way. But John chapter eight, we spent a lot of time in John chapter seven, we spent a lot of time in John chapter 10,

49:39

John chapter 17, but John chapter eight is one of the most important texts that likewise emphasizes with clarity the sovereignty of God and salvation.

49:53

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed in him, and please notice, it is

49:59

Pepistu Katas. So this is a, again, in John, just in passing, the primary terminology that is used of saving faith is the present tense.

50:24

And so you're gonna notice that when he uses eris and other forms, very frequently, something like this is gonna happen.

50:33

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed him, if you abide in my word, then you are truly my disciples and you will know the truth and the truth will make you free.

50:44

Notice as soon as Jesus says, make you free, as soon as he raises the issue of slavery to sin and the need to be set free, the unregenerate heart is offended by that terminology, offended by that terminology.

51:05

They answered him, we are Abram seed. I've never yet been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say you will become free?

51:11

How many times have the Jews been enslaved since Abraham? You know,

51:18

Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, now Rome, never been enslaved to anyone.

51:26

This is what self -deception does. And this is spiritual self -deception. We are

51:33

Abram seed, I've never yet been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say you'll become free? Jesus answered, truly, truly, I save you. Everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

51:46

The doulos of Amartyos. If you commit sin, you're the slave of sin.

51:57

Now, what is a slave? Do we take that seriously? The slave does not remain in the house forever.

52:05

The son does remain forever. So in other words, there is, the slave does not have the relationship that the son does.

52:13

The doulos is not a huios. The huios abides forever.

52:21

The doulos does not abide. So if the son makes you free, going back to the terminology used above to cause the offense, if the son makes you free, then truly are you el yuthiroi.

52:38

You are free men. So it's not if you choose to be free.

52:45

It's not if you take hold of provision that has been made possible for you to be free.

52:50

If the son makes you free, you will be free. Indeed, truly.

52:58

He says, I know that you are Abraham's seed, yet you are seeking to kill me because my word has no place in you.

53:06

I speak the things which I have seen with my father. Therefore, you also do the things that you've heard from your father.

53:13

They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, if you're Abraham's children, you would do the deeds of Abraham.

53:20

But now you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God, this Abraham did not do.

53:27

You're doing the deeds of your father. They said to him, we were not born of sexual immorality. We have one father,

53:33

God. Jesus said to them, if God were your father, you would love me.

53:40

For I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come of myself, but he sent me.

53:46

Now, I think it's important that you hear what's being said here. If God were your father, so this whole constant mess that we get of, oh, we're all just God's children, you know?

53:57

No, we're not. And I can guess what the provisionist excuse here is going to be.

54:05

Well, these Jews were under judgment from God and they were being hardened because they weren't the choice meats, they were the unchoice meats.

54:13

And so that's actually what's going on there. The reality is that Jesus' teaching is you are either a son of God or you're the son of the devil.

54:28

You are either under Satan's power or you have been chosen by God and given to the son.

54:36

And so there is no third group. There is no, well, for people who aren't being judged by God, but the

54:43

Jews are being judged by God right now. And so all this stuff about judgment, stuff like that, it's just about them at that particular point in time.

54:50

But other people can be in better shape and be able to choose freely.

55:01

Notice this is, I'm not even covering myself, but he sent me, why do you not understand?

55:09

And notice the terms over here, genoskete. Why do you not understand or know what

55:15

I am speaking or what my speech is? Because u dunastha akuain tan lagan tan emu.

55:28

You are not able to hear my word. You cannot hear my word, the things that I'm speaking.

55:39

You do not have the ability to hear my word. You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.

55:50

He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

56:00

But because I speak the truth, but because I speak the truth, you do not believe me.

56:10

Because Hati, I speak the truth, you are not believing me.

56:18

These people don't believe the truth. They are not able, please notice, u dunastha akuain, not able to hear.

56:27

Not able to hear. Now, the provisionist will say, well, that's because there's been judgment that has been brought against them.

56:35

And that's what this is all about. And this doesn't really have any meaning to us today.

56:42

Okay. Notice verse 45, but because I speak the truth, you do not believe me.

56:53

Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, so if I speak truth, why do you not believe me?

57:07

Why do you not believe me? Now, this is again, why the provisionist has to say, this was a special, this is not, there's no one that falls into the category of John 8 today.

57:20

There's no one that falls into the category of John 8 today. They would have to say that.

57:27

Why? Why is it that they do not believe? Because look at verse 47, ha -on -ek -tu -the -u.

57:42

The ones being from God. The LSB says, he who is of God, he who belongs to God.

57:55

Ha -re -ma -ta -tu -the -u -a -ku -ai. The words of God is hearing.

58:04

Why? You cannot hear my words. Remember, that was above.

58:09

The ones who are from God, the words of God are hearing.

58:15

For this reason, you do not a -ku -a -tay. Now, ask yourself a question.

58:22

In the vast majority of instances today, if you ask an evangelical, why do people not hear the word of Christ?

58:34

It's because they choose not to. They choose not to.

58:40

The preacher didn't do it right, or the wrong context, or whatever, because they choose not to.

58:49

For this reason, you do not hear the words of God.

58:55

And please notice, those are Jesus' words. Given him by the Father. This reason, because you are not of God.

59:10

Some translations say, translate the ek -tu -the -u as you're not belonging to God. You're not of God.

59:19

So whose decision is that? You see, the synergist has to stand on his head and find some way of saying, this phrase right here, that, that's us.

59:35

It's not because we're doing the desires of our father, the devil. It's not because we're the fallen sons and daughters of Adam.

59:42

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It has to be us, our free will. The reality is, until the

59:49

Son sets you free, you're a slave of sin. And you cannot hear the words of God. The sovereign freedom of God to save his black people is all through this text.

01:00:03

It's all through it. It's foundational, it's fundamental. And the reality is, it is quite beautiful as well.

01:00:15

So I wanted to look at that text and remind us of the many, many places where scripture teaches very clearly the utter freedom of God in salvation, all to his glory, perfectly accomplished by Jesus Christ.

01:00:35

I love the consistency of the word of God. It is the greatest possession we could have.

01:00:45

I am so glad that God has not contradicted himself, spoken in such a fashion as to leave us confused.

01:00:52

If you will listen and submit. It's a beautiful revelation.

01:00:59

Now, real quickly, there will be a live stream. I hope it survives, to be honest with you.

01:01:08

It looks like it's YouTube, so it should. There will be a live stream Friday night for the debate from Houston.

01:01:17

I understand that Leighton Flowers is gonna be there and Tyson James is gonna be there.

01:01:24

And I just have a feeling there's gonna be lots of my dear friends who just love to encourage me and talk about me in Facebook groups.

01:01:36

They're gonna be, and Rich tells me it's all sold out. So if you haven't gotten your tickets, you're gonna have to be watching the live stream like everybody else, because I, what?

01:01:49

The Eventbrite showed no tickets available.

01:01:55

So they may have ceased at a certain point, but I presume two, three days ahead of time, if they aren't selling any more tickets, that means they're sold out.

01:02:05

I would assume so. Yeah. I would assume so, I don't know. I don't know, I haven't asked the pastor.

01:02:12

I suppose I could email him and he'd probably get back to me fairly quickly. But I hope you'll be watching and enjoying and praying for a useful debate that will have benefits for people farther on down the road and not just simply on Friday evening.

01:02:33

So thanks for watching the program this evening. It is getting to be evening. And like I said, it's not dark enough yet, not dark enough yet, but I'm gonna take this table right here and I'm gonna put it right out there and I'm gonna go get my little telescope and I'm gonna go.

01:02:52

And if any of you have clear skies and you've got a little telescope, let's all look at the Orion Nebula tonight.

01:02:57

It's right up, straight up high. It's a good spot in the sky to see. The moon is getting brighter.

01:03:05

Yeah, yeah, that could be getting close. But I think it's so dark out here, I'll still be able to see it.

01:03:10

So anyway, thanks for watching the program. Pray for us as we continue to,

01:03:17

I've still gotta travel all the way home after this weekend. It's a long drive and, but I'll be listening and studying and trying to get ready.

01:03:27

So when we get home, we'll be able to continue to, and we'll try to do some programs as I'm traveling, as cell towers and KOA campground

01:03:38

Wi -Fi allows. Which right here, I happened to notice this morning, the repeater for the

01:03:45

Wi -Fi is about 20 feet that way. So got the good spot.

01:03:51

The Lord providentially parked me in the right spot. That's why we've been able to have a fairly consistent stream. So anyways,