Modalism Destroys the Gospel, Church History Continued, Response to Jordan Hall’s Unhinged Diatribe

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00:38

Well, greetings welcome to the dividing line I'm here Just drove from Las Vegas down to Phoenix and had to get everything out of the rental van and then get that turned in and So we've been we've been moving been driving a lot a lot a lot of hours on the on the road the past ten days but And came the closest to an accident

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About three quarters of a mile from my house. That was that was great crazy blonde in a little teeny tiny

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Two -seater that decided that switching lanes and slamming on brakes in front of large vans is a good thing to do

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Just just avoid that one. Anyways Hopefully she's not a listener to the dividing line.

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Anyway, so here we are got a lot of things get to today and Let's start off Diving right into scripture if we could

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I'm gonna leave the unpleasant stuff for the end of the program and do the positive stuff at the beginning and Then if you don't want to listen to the unpleasant stuff at the end and you don't have to that's that's certainly certainly understandable

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Didn't spend a lot of time I did that brief little program From the church up in Gardner Ville That's the church where we had the wedding on Saturday and Where it snowed like anything

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Sunday afternoon into the evening so we just dodged that Just just very nicely by less than 24 hours.

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I would say They needed the snow everybody needs in the West right now needs some type of any type of precipitation anyway

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Did that little brief program and I talked Just just very briefly a little bit about the encounter with Sean McCraney There obviously many many things were brought up during the course of that discussion

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Full preterism and how it's utterly destructive of any meaningful biblical exegesis it destroys the reality of the church and just a horrific impact that that has and is used by a lot of folks that want to avoid

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The the wisdom that God has given us in the establishment of the church the idea that the church only exists as late

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He's 70. I think it's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard Yeah, you know throughout all ages world without oh, well anyway,

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I guess the world ended in 1870 anyways, you know You can do anything with that But one of the things that I didn't get to expand on is the the problem that modalism creates with and and I guess

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I Guess a lot of folks just don't even think about This aspect of Christian theology

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And I'm not sure why as I'm sitting here thinking about I I'm really not sure why this is not

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You know, there is that one beautiful song that we love to sing before the throne of God above but It just doesn't seem that a lot of Christians have a real

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Solid grasp of The reality of the intercessory work of Jesus as the the mediator the intercessor as The God -man as the one to whom the elect of God are joined

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We are in him And so he is that predecessor who's gone into the holy place in our in our stead and and hence we have that that anchor for the soul he was chapter 6 and When you think about that and try to fit that into a modalistic scheme

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It just doesn't work Especially if there is some lack of clarity as there certainly was with Sean as to the nature of Christ after his resurrection.

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I mean, he's no longer the God -man from his perspective he's he's no longer has a resurrection body

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Talk about making a mess out of 1st Corinthians 15, but but what is the nature of this one who intercedes and So, you know,

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I've said this normally in regards to the deity of Christ, you know, we let people get away with with murder when we dialogue with them on The subject of the deity of Christ because we never force them

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To answer to give a positive presentation who Jesus really is in light of the verses

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We're looking at most Christians allow themselves to be put into a completely defensive position where they're simply

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Defending the deity of Christ and they never go. Hey, wait a minute, you know, you just brought that verse What about what about your view your view doesn't fit this verse?

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How do you how do you answer that we normally become hyper defensive and we we don't put the shoe on the other other foot and The same thing is true with modalism

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I haven't really talked about that very much. Normally it's in regards to deity of Christ, but the modalist really has to try to fit this strange view of Jesus as two persons and then see here's the problem is after the resurrection you have the coming of the

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Spirit if that's the Unipersonal deity if that's the one who was the father who in dwelt the son and is now in dwelling us

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Then what happened to Jesus? I mean, what is

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Jesus now is Is he no longer the God man? What's the nature of the mediator who is at the right hand of the father and Who together with the father sends the

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Spirit when you're a Unitarian Modalist this doesn't make any sense

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And so we we look for example at Hebrews chapter 9 Hebrews chapter 9

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Beginning of verse 24 for Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands a mere copy of the true one

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But into heaven itself now to appear in the presence of God for us. So again the writer to the

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Hebrews for his own reasons Utilizes the tabernacle not the temple as His Prototypical his typology.

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So the reality is the heavenly tabernacle of which the earthly is just but a shadow a representation and so Christ enters into the holy place

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Which is in the heaven itself now to appear in the presence of God for us

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Now That makes perfect sense in a Trinitarian context we have the

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Son Eternally in the form of God Equal to father does not consider the equality something to be held on to at all costs lays that aside

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Death even a death on the cross highly exalted given name which is above every name Now he enters into the presence of the

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Father in our behalf his sacrifice is accepted his sacrifice is completed and So he now is the intercessor in the presence of the

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Father same picture you have in The book of Revelation the Lamb slanding it standing as if slain

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So that makes sense, but how does this work in modalism? And again, there's there's different Brands I didn't get the feeling that Sean really has a

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Fixed theology of any of this But but who is

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Who is this one who appears in the present the presence of God for us?

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if you have the idea that Jesus was two persons a father and the son and the son is Only the human being so is this is this now only a human being who stands in the presence of the

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Father well how is he in the presence of the Father if the father has taken on the role of the spirit and the spirit now indwells us

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Nor was that he would offer himself often as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his

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Own, otherwise, he would need to suffer often since the foundation of the world But now once at the consummation of the ages, he has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself

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And so Again, this makes sense when we talk when we have a divine

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Redeemer Who is truly divine the Sun in? Classical modalism the

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Sun it well in modern modalism. The Sun is not divine the deity that dwells in the

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Sun, but the Sun came into existence at his birth in Bethlehem and And I think I sort of wonder if that's

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Where Sean gets confused and actually was like what you mean? Jesus hasn't always been in flesh

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And I was really struggling and I guess I I made a strange face toward the camera something here

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There's somebody Photoshop something. I saw a meme. I don't know But I I couldn't even follow what he was talking about.

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I've never heard anybody Suggest that well, that's what Trinitarians have told me. Well in all probability

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That's what you misunderstood Trinitarians saying not the Trinitarians actually said that And in as much as it is pointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment

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So Christ also having offered once having been offered once to bear the sins of many

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Will appear a second time to salvation for salvation without reference to sin to those who eagerly await him and so the one who is coming is

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The one who will appear who is the one who once offered himself to bear the sins of many if the nature of Jesus has

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Changed this doesn't make any sense Because very clearly the one who will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin to those who eagerly await him is the same one who had been offered once to bear the sins of many if Somehow Jesus has gone from being the

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God -man to just simply a man Then there is no second coming. Anyways Even if you pull it off to AD 70, it still wouldn't make any sense

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Which is you know using the the Preterist thing. So there's just so many There there's so many problems

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When when when people try to argue that the doctrine of the Trinity Is just some later

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Accretion or something along those lines. They don't seem to realize The doctrine of the

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Trinity is what makes the theology of the New Testament It's what?

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You cannot connect the gospel and its effects

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With the nature of God without the doctrine the Trinity that the the gospel is Trinitarian and You can't have the

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Christian gospel without the God -man you can't have and you and you can't have the

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God -man In a modalistic sense. They may say yes. He was a man indwelt by God but he was a man indwelt by God who was truly deity and who referred to his father and distinguished himself from the

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Father and from the Spirit and in the application of the gospel

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Has a particular function continues to have a particular function to this day as mediator makes me wonder

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I Don't know and I don't know that. I really want to spend time finding out

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I certainly have have the time to do it right now But What does a

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Preterist do with the intercessory work of Christ after AD 70? I don't know.

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I But for Christians, anyways, it's a beautiful truth. It is a vital truth and I don't

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I just don't see How anyone can maintain the biblical doctrine of the

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Trinity? I'm the biblical doctrine of the gospel without it being Trinitarian in its manifestation in its very essence

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It's just it's just right there and so You know,

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I think I did at some point say to Sean when he was saying well, I don't understand it

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I said well my kids did and you know junior high school It wasn't it wasn't meant to be an insult.

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It's just the reality that that's not an argument, you know, if I said to You know,

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I don't get The various forms of Buddhism but my not getting it is not an argument against the various forms of Buddhism and So turning around saying well,

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I don't I don't get how Jesus can be the God man. That's not an argument against it just It's it's an observation, but it's not an argument

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You say well, it should be simpler than that. Well, I'm sorry But the very fact that God is eternal is pretty much beyond my experiential

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Understanding so That that doesn't that doesn't fly either.

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So just some thoughts on We could have we obviously could have expanded the topic

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Widely under a bunch of different things, but we didn't we didn't do that We only had a certain amount of time obviously, and I did try to keep it focused even though I said

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Oh, you're changing the subject. Well You know I raised an issue he's like yeah, but that's that's irrelevant because there is no church anymore is it

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That's where all that came from. Um, I keep telling people and and you might say it might say why don't you just take notes?

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Well because normally right as I'm finishing up the program or what I'm right as I'm finishing up teaching at PRBC Isn't a good time for me to take notes

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We are like I said, unfortunately at the exact same point in my notes on church history and So I'm gonna

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I'm Recalling that we are looking at Here on the program.

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We're pretty much the exact same spot as in the in the PRBC presentation And that is that we looked at Jan Hus.

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We looked at Wycliffe. We looked at the Lollards and then we are looking at The Factors that had to exist because I kept saying

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I would have picked Wycliffe. I would have picked Jan Hus But it was too early it was it wasn't the right time for the

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Reformation to begin Because there were certain things that had not yet that were just about to develop just about to To come on the scene that would be vitally important in the

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Reformation succeeding taking root and and surviving the incredible counter -offensive that Rome launched against the

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Reformation and so I think

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I Recall us going over what's called the

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Babylonian captivity to church. I think and it's yeah, what I'm avoiding doing is

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That's it. Now see someone says Factors contributing to the Reformation is where you stopped last time. But did we get into them?

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Did we did we look at the first one? See I I know that at PRBC we are at the second factor

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That's where I have to be I'm not sure if I'm doing it Sunday morning or not because I'm preaching both services on Sunday But did we cover that here?

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I don't think we did. I Don't think we did as I'm as I'm pondering it

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So Yeah, you know, I I don't remember reading through all of this stuff

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Yeah guy in channel says I don't think so Let me summarize the first one just in case

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I did and if you want more information you can go listen to listen to the fuller discussion

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From the church history classes at PRBC The first of the factors that we need to cover is the

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Babylonian captivity to church it is a century long saga of The papacy in its

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At one of its nadir is one of its lowest and So What happens just I'm just going to summarize this real quickly what happens is that in 1305 the the

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French Cardinals had gained control Pretty much of the papacy and In 1305 so this is before the great mortality the black death

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Which is going to take place 1346 1347 As someone has once said the 14th century really was rough on many levels it was

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How Lindsay would have loved the the 14th century anyway Could have come up with lots of lots of cool stuff at that point

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So In 1305 The Archbishop of Bordeaux Which is

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French was elected as Pope and he took the name Clement V remember Clement means merciful

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Merciful there have been a lot of Clements who weren't overly merciful, but that's another issue It's sort of like when

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Popes take the name innocent. I've always found that to be just a Yeah, who's gonna?

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Who's gonna take? anyway But he never went to Rome Clement V never went to Rome instead.

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He was the first Avignon Pope. He moved the papacy to Avignon, France and For most of the rest of 14th century

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No Pope lived in Rome for the majority of that period now toward the end there's gonna be a

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Establishment of a Roman papacy again in contrast to the continuing Avignon papacy, but for many many years

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The papacy there was no Pope in Rome period if the if the you know the

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I suppose the only way that the Roman Catholic can Explain this is to Say that the successors of Peter Temporarily moved to Avignon and then came back

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At some point I Don't I don't know But It is not till the very last two decades that this split takes place where you now have a

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Roman papacy and an Avignon papacy and what happens during this period of time for a number of decades is you have two

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Popes who anathemized anathematized the other Pope and And anyone who follows the other

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Pope and what happens in Europe is you have Fascinatingly enough a division right along political lines as to which

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Pope you are going to support now When you think about it for the the nation states at that time this was pretty cool because you could play the two

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Popes off each other and So obviously this incredibly damaged the power of the papacy

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But eventually what what takes place There was a

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What's called the Council of Pisa in? 1409 attempted to heal the schism

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However, both Popes refused to attend the Cardinals deposed both Popes and elected another Alexander the fifth

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But neither the first two Popes accepted the third so now there were three Popes So the

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Council of Pisa meets They assign a new Pope who tries to depose the other two

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Popes, but they don't accept that so now you have three Popes Who are anathematizing each other? That's in 1409 well

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This also raised the subject of conciliarism And that is what is the ultimate authority?

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It's really easy for modern Roman Catholics to look back and go well, it's you know, it's always been Rome and it's always been no

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That's something that's developed over time Roman bishops started making grand claims long ago.

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It doesn't mean that everybody everybody believed them at all and so conciliarism was the idea that councils have the highest authority in the church and So Only a few years about five years after Alexander the fifth election the

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Council of Constance was called and That was in 1414. And so it it met for four years 1414 to 1418 and Obviously lots of politics and Backroom deals and and everything that goes with that the burning of Jan Hus Was also in 1415, but in 1417 a new

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Pope Martin the fifth was elected and You know, I I can't prove that there was you know, any money changed hands or anything else and What happens is all the other three

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Popes Acquiesce to this new Pope Martin the fifth and so now the the schism has been been healed and You would think

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That in light of this in light of the fact that the papacy had not had within itself the ability to bring about its own healing that conciliarism would be

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By de facto established by this because you had to have a Quote -unquote ecumenical council.

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It wasn't ecumenical but they would view it as such You had to have a council to heal the mess that the papacy was in But it's not a matter of decades before the

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Popes are again proclaiming their own ultimate authority even over councils and many a person died over the next number of centuries

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For promoting the heresy of conciliarism. Now, why is this

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Vitally important? Well, it's it's simple This really shook the confidence of Everyone in Europe in the divine

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Establishment Infallibility authority of the papacy literally decades went by decades went by With multiple

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Popes decades went by with a Pope only in Avignon not in Rome Decades went by where the

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Popes are Anathematizing each other this obviously had a huge impact upon the thinking of Individuals in Europe in regards to the divine nature of this

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Hierarchical system of the papacy and so that was

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Vitally important in in the development of the the Reformation. The other another thing was the fall of Constantinople The fall of Constantinople a fascinating story in and of itself a sad story literally

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Constantinople had been weakened I mean Constantinople had stood

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Holding back the tide of Islam for centuries and then in their stupidity and in their greed one of the

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Crusades Had sort of hung a left and went and sat Constantinople for money from certain

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Italian cities city -states and really contributed to the fall of Constantinople in 1453 now that had a there were many reasons why that was relevant, but especially important was the fact that as It became evident that Constantinople was not to be able to hold out.

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It was going to fall finally after all these centuries Many of her scholars her

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Greek scholars fled westward and so they they brought their learning and they brought their manuscripts with them and many

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European libraries today Many of their treasures would find their origin in the exodus of Greek scholars out of Constantinople toward the west in light of the oncoming

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Ottoman Turks and the Muslim invasion that they that they brought and so It's it's highly probable that the manuscripts that Erasmus uses in Producing his

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Greek New Testament Probably had their origin their Genesis their their origination

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In The fall of Constantinople and So it it had a huge impact and and of course the

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Muslim invasion of Europe at this time ends up having a major impact on the course of the

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Reformation especially as we will see in regards to Anabaptists and The combined

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Unified sacral rejection sacral state church

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The Reformation was a sacral Reformation. It was a state church Reformation and the

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Reformers and The Roman Catholics agreed together that the Anabaptists were a huge danger because they were not sacralists and The fact that Europe was under such pressure from the east by the

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Ottoman Turks Ended up being very important in how all of the

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Reformers reacted to and responded to The Anabaptists I think anybody who's studied

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Anabaptist history would would Admit that that is that is the case One other thing real quick We'll go ahead and cover this

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Printing Obviously, you know when most people talk about, you know, what were the what were the big deals and I'm going to magically make the camera come over What were the what were the big deals what were the the things that Were absolutely necessary for the

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Reformation to to flourish Printing is is obvious. That's the one big thing

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The The not only not only printing in the sense of the ability of the

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Reformation to get its message out I've mentioned before I think that for two centuries in Germany Martin Luther held the record

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For the most copies of his works for two centuries after his his life

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That's amazing But that just demonstrates how Luther and the

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Reformers recognized the absolute vital importance of The printing press and the ability to distribute what they're really saying and and it's interesting if you've read

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Most people skip it. But if you've read the introduction the preface to the king of France in the

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In Calvin's Institutes, you can see that he's another

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Reformer who Recognizes the necessity of getting out accurate knowledge about what the

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Reformers are actually saying because there is so much Misrepresentation of what it is.

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They're actually saying but Aside from getting the message out. What was also fundamentally and foundationally important was the existence of Scholarship the existence of Greek and Hebrew lexicons the the ability of the

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Reformation to utilize its strongest Argument, which is the exegesis of the text of scripture.

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So you needed to have the scripture You need to have translations of scripture. You need to have the original languages that's why really the the strong emphasis upon the original languages that continues to exist in Reformed circles today and in many others but in Reformed circles

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Especially goes right back to that time period Where the

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Reformers were Able to make their argument by throwing off so much of the shackles of Medieval allegorical interpretation and to appeal to the direct

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Word of God itself and so There had been printing

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Before Johannes Gutenberg, but it was done by block. So it wasn't any faster in Producing one book anyways than writing because you had to basically carve out each page

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And so once you got it done, then you could produce multiples, but it would it took forever.

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It really wasn't You know, you could make many multiple copies, but if it was a large work it would take so much time to create the blocks that It wasn't worth the money.

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So Gutenberg developed the concept of movable type at least we recognize in the

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West Which allowed setting and printing entire books very cheaply very quickly

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Relatively speaking. I mean in comparison what we can do today, obviously Not not quickly at all, but for that day

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Massive increase in the the speed in which something could be could be published

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He and when you think about putting letters into a block and then

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Tightening them down and then putting you know Once you got the whole page done and you put the the ink on it and then you make the impression

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He used mirrors To do the typesetting because it's it's got to be backwards Because it's making the reverse impression upon the page.

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So you have to use mirrors to to do it In 1455 the

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Bible was printed at Mainz. It was 1 ,282 pages long Till then the process was a highly guarded secret

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But Mainz was sacked in 1456 and when it was sacked they result that resulted in a spread of the technology all over Europe so There you go.

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I guess they didn't have you know, the copyright office or anything like that and war is war and and truly in in Western history the invention of the printing press movable type

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I Don't know how you know, if you were to make a list as people have done of All the great massive cultural

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Developments that's got to be in the top five. It just it just has to be It's it's interesting that we're entering into a period where You know, you could argue that the advent of the computer and the digital book

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Rivals that but I'll be honest with you. I don't think as many people read did read digitally as They've read paper in the past I Think we're we're actually less literate today because of the electronic form

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Of books than we were we only had paper books. I think we're less literate Certainly as I look at the next generation in general

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I do not see a high rate of literacy when I say literacy. I don't mean just the ability to read

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I mean actually reading works of antiquity or Books that have helped to shape and form our thought

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I don't see the next generation is particularly literate at all And that began generations generations back so Printing absolutely necessary Had to be there wasn't there

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For Wycliffe wasn't there for Huss So it wasn't time It was it was necessary.

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So the three today We covered the Babylonian captivity the church the great schism in the papacy the fall of Constantinople and printing we will

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I'll try to remember next time Next issue, maybe someone can write it down out there.

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Maybe I can just remember it But since I may be at the same spot someplace else, that's what's causing the problem the

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Renaissance Renaissance was The Renaissance was vitally important for the survival and the form of the

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Reformation Some would argue the Renaissance was in itself what we would call a

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Slow acting poison in the bloodstream of the Reformation We'll let you figure out which one of those you think might be the case or maybe just think about why that would be it is interesting to to consider those particular particular things so Uh, there's the first two of our of our subjects now

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I mentioned that While I was driving up I drove up to Salt Lake via Las Vegas which

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I Guess it's because we didn't have Google back then. We never thought about going through Vegas.

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Did we did we? Yeah by it is longer but speed wise 21 minutes, yeah

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We just determined that it was shorter and we went the other route Yeah, there was one time.

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I went through Vegas going up. I remember I was with somebody I can't remember maybe my first or second time, huh?

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But it's a much easier drive. Yeah, that was what we did in four lanes.

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You don't have that Stuff to the mountains and Paige nearly it's fun though, you know,

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I'm sorry. It's not nearly as fun Just going on a straight line. Sorry depends on whether you

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Like getting there in one piece or not. Oh Well, how many like to live dangerously?

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I mean all the close calls and stuff were with deer and stuff down there in southern, Utah They weren't they weren't you know, and maybe obviously things have changed in 30 some odd years so maybe the roads are better now, but anyway,

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I went up through through Vegas saw Two of my granddaughters real quickly brought him lunch and stuff like that.

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That was sort of fun Went up to Salt Lake City while I was driving up there I was

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I received a Facebook message and It was

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From a friend that said hey I got mentioned that he got mentioned on the polemics report

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And but he hadn't hadn't heard it yet. So I was like, oh, hmm. Okay and It was from a couple days earlier and interestingly enough.

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No one had said anything to me about this program I'm not sure what that means

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So I started listening to it only because And I think this was the

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February 6 edition I Started listening to it only because this friend of mine was mentioned well, he didn't get mentioned till the very end and I Didn't realize that this was one of the most lengthy

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Extended attacks upon me personally that had ever been posted and I described it

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Briefly either on Facebook or Twitter or both. I think it was one both After I got done listening to it.

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I described it as unhinged because it is it is

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I Mean unhinged means without control You know the hinge of a door is supposed to keep it within a certain, you know certain area

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And once you become unhinged you just you just go every place and this is this was This was

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Jordan Hall. It is worst. It was it was childish invective insulting

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Arrogant, it was just everything all at all at once. I mean it was just Embarrassingly bad and so I called it what was it was it was unhinged and accusations of sin and just just all sorts of stuff and As I as I listened to it at one point

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I just started chuckling You can see it see the chuckle or cry and So I made a comment

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Very very quick. I get was on Twitter brief the whole thing on Facebook was far too busy with speaking and doing the thing with Sean McCraney and then then

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Traveling over to Nevada and everything we had over the weekend So this is really the first time I've you know, obviously just got back a couple hours ago and First time

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I've really had an opportunity to expand upon anything which of course didn't keep mr. Hall from responding to it.

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But I mentioned that I would respond to it and that I would point out some serious problems with his argumentation, especially regarding the

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London Baptist Confession of Faith Mr. Hall is a Reformed Baptist.

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He has not been a Reformed Baptist all that long It is amazing that he can mock and the entire

42:50

Reformed Baptist Facebook group, which I'm not a part of by the way But he can mock all of these people many of whom have been

42:58

Reformed Baptist much longer than he has Who are much more studied than he is have much more experience teaching he has but he knows

43:07

What you have to believe and and he can talk about what are you smoking in there?

43:14

You know this kind of language He will say I ooze arrogance but doesn't realize just how wildly arrogant it is to be as Untaught as he is and unstable and yet to chide entire groups of people who have

43:32

Confessed his faith longer than he has For their not being as insightful evidently as he is and so I I made mention of something from the the first chapter of the

43:48

London Baptist Confession of Faith and So as I listened my I on the way up I listened to it again on the way down today

43:59

Making notes of time indexes, so I we don't have it. Certainly. I'm not gonna listen to all that one To be able to play a few portions for you, but there were there were two

44:14

Teachable moment issues One is in regards to the nature of the actual arguments of cessationism

44:23

Which evidently he just doesn't understand or was so out of control unhinged that He just doesn't care about making careful category distinctions being accurate any of these types of things and So I want to look at some of the some of that in regards to well

44:44

What is the issue with cessationism is cessationism simply the idea that the canons closed.

44:50

There's no more biblical revelation Or When you actually

44:57

Consider and actually take time to listen to what this other side is saying does cessationism require you to be much more careful in your argumentation and focus upon the nature of the gifts of the

45:12

Spirit even to the point of making distinctions between the gifts of the

45:18

Spirit that are intended for the edification and building of the church throughout the existence of the church and Those that are given a specific purpose related to the establishment of apostolic authority and the

45:36

Reality that the gospel is to go out into all the earth Ie apostolic sign gifts the whole issue of cessationism is

45:49

Considerably more complex than the vast majority of its advocates seem to think that it is and seem to understand that it is

45:57

It's very evident to me that a number of cessationists have never ever engaged a

46:06

Meaningful continuationist in actual debate on the basis of Scripture. They just assume it they make it the standard of orthodoxy

46:14

And that's it And if you disagree, well for many functionally you're just not a

46:19

Christian we'll see some of that in in this But to confuse the end of divine revelation in Scripture with the cessation of and then you have to all

46:40

Special gifts of the Spirit only some there are some cessationists who really do believe that basically was the closing of the canon even gifts of discernment and Pastoral abilities and helps all of it ended.

46:54

There are some people go that far I don't which means there are different perspectives and some people don't care that there are different perspectives

47:02

It's very clear that Jordan Halder could care less that there are different perspectives that category issues thinking clearly

47:08

No, no, no, that's that that's that's not gonna help his his audience But but if you really engage these folks in a meaningful fashion

47:17

You have to recognize there are issues to be discussed here and simply going see Chapter one says these things have ceased.

47:24

Well, what things have ceased? Chapter one doesn't make any distinction about Apostolic sign gifts or works of the

47:32

Spirit in that way. It's talking about divine revelation So, what do you do with a charismatic that says well, of course divine revelation in Scripture and of the

47:41

Apostles Nothing's to be added to that. We're not claiming anything does. Oh, yes you do because what no, no, no,

47:47

I don't you're a liar There's the end of that discussion So if that's as far as these people can go

47:53

I leave them to that But for those of us who actually want to seriously interact with people you can't stop there You have to recognize what the issues are.

48:00

And so even though I was being Insulted right left and center. I I recognized wow

48:08

He's he's conflating categories and just not even beginning to make meaningful argumentation that would have any impact

48:14

But he doesn't care if it has any impact Upon the those people because that's not what his polemics is about.

48:21

I'm about reaching other people. He's about Nuking other people there's a huge difference in how you're going to understand things and do things

48:29

When you when you have different totally different motivations in how you're doing stuff, so With that hope hope everything's still hooked up And then we'll find out soon enough

48:43

Okay, you know I I actually do Have the notes that I took here so D D D D I can actually use this

48:56

Okay, so let's uh, let's jump in just a few little clips here. Oop. I need to turn this down to the actual speed

49:04

No reason to play it at any high speed. All right, let's start With this.

49:11

Why do we think that's a primary issue and that dr White is out of his ever -loving mind for acting as though cessationism is some kind of secondary or tertiary matter so Here's here's what happens when you when you don't think clearly and you you don't use proper category

49:29

Thinking When I say Cessationism is a secondary matter.

49:35

What I mean by that is it does not define the gospel. He has what he's done is he has redefined cessationism as Having something to do with the ending of divine revelation.

49:46

That's not my definition. That's not definition Anybody I've ever ever talked to who is engaging

49:52

Charismatics in regards their beliefs Regarding the ministry of the

49:58

Spirit in the church today You see a serious charismatic scholar is

50:05

Going to believe that divine revelation in scripture is different than any other activity of the

50:13

Spirit of God today Now are there some who would who think there's a 28th book of the

50:19

New Testament 29th book Okay, then deal with them where they are I'm dealing with the serious people and they say no

50:28

That's why I asked Michael on the program. Is there anything other than scripture that's theanious to us?

50:34

And he says no only scripture is theanious to us and we've been going back and forth a little bit on this and I've been

50:39

Pushing on okay. What about this? What about that? What about this? They make distinctions Are these distinctions defensible in debate?

50:49

Well, that's one of the issues we have to deal with but you can't debate something when you deny that the other side actually holds to that position and so is the canon and the closure of the canon

51:04

Absolutely central to Christian theology, of course Have I read written entire chapters on the subject?

51:10

Of course. Have I defended that in debate before? Of course So what does Jordan Hall do? Ignore it all

51:17

That's how you do it Redefine Make false accusations that go against everything that the person has done for longer than Jordan Hall has been in ministry

51:29

That's that's that's Jordan Hall's way. That's just Just we see it over and over again so I'm out of my ever -loving mind, but the reality is it's just Redefining things and and that that way you can you can make accusations now

51:48

One of the things that came out very clearly in this Back last year one of the thing one of the difficulties that we struggled with in regards to the

52:00

Yasser Qadhi Dialogue was how many people were unwilling to even allow

52:06

Yasser Qadhi to define what Yasser Qadhi believes There are a bunch of people that said we don't care what

52:11

Yasser Qadhi, Takiyah, lying, da -da -da -da -da It's impossible

52:19

To even begin to have a meaningful conversation when you can just simply say You believe this and if you say anything other than what

52:26

I say you believe you're a liar. There's no Discussion there is no ability to have any type of communication at that point.

52:36

You've you've ended it all Well, that's exactly What Jordan Hall does with Michael Brown?

52:45

We're gonna hear a number of times in this in the few minutes of stuff that I have marked here

52:52

Where the arguments basically this yes, Michael Brown denies that he's endorsing these things teaching these things

53:00

No, Michael Brown Despite the fact he does a national radio program. We don't have any audio of him promoting sneaky squid spirits or Michael the

53:12

Archangel wearing wrestler tights or we'll get into that No, he doesn't do that type of stuff on his show

53:20

Actually his shows normally on you know messianic prophecies debating rabbis doing stuff on LGBT issues doing cultural interaction stuff

53:33

Yeah Yeah, it's it's it's you know, we can't even really criticize that stuff, you know, he does that but that doesn't really matter

53:39

It's this other stuff that matters because that's what matters to us see so the idea is he doesn't get to define what he believes because he is the tool of Satan and Since he's the tool of Satan then if he says he believes

53:57

X He's just lying and that way you can misrepresent him you can you can accuse him of everything in the

54:04

Sun and You're not worried about because he's just tool Satan. So that's that's the easy way to do it

54:11

This is called Cheap polemics, you know when when you can't actually interact with what the other side actually does believe

54:20

Just call them the servant of Satan and say they believe X Y Z and then your arguments work That's that's the easy way

54:26

Okay, that's why you don't have Over 150 videos of Jordan Hall engaging

54:35

Muslims and atheists and Roman Catholics and all the rest of them because he can't

54:41

You can't do it. Not with this kind of stuff. It's it's impossible Nobody, nobody will put up for with it very long in a debate.

54:49

It's like wait a minute I just said I don't believe that doesn't matter. You're lying. I know what you believe Get this eventually people got yeah,

54:57

I don't think so. So here's a here's illustration a

55:02

You don't work out Malice of Satan over a cup of coffee

55:08

Michael Brown isn't a Well -meaning brother who's just a little bit naive.

55:13

He is an agent of the devil in the clearest of possible terms and If you don't see that as a reformed

55:23

Baptist read chapter 1 paragraph 1 of your own confession So here's what happens when you confuse categories

55:32

Now again, you know Michael Brown says the only thing that's the honest us is scripture

55:37

There is that the canons not open there isn't any further scriptural revelation today he must be lying and If he says that just read

55:49

The chapter in the confession about what he says he's lying about See the circularity.

55:55

I mean, it's just spinning so fast that it's that it's nauseating but that's how you do it just a servant of Satan so He may say that but but you know, it's just not true.

56:08

That's just not true. It's easy easy way to get around stuff very Very very easy

56:19

Yeah, and well this unfortunately starts a whole section so I'd like to skip the first part but We just gotta play the whole section so my apologies again

56:31

For what we're we have to play but it's necessary for the for the context. So when white

56:38

Laughably or sadly, I really can't decide which one to do I want to laugh and I want to cry at the same time when he claimed that Michael Brown Held to the sufficiency of scripture every single reformed

56:49

Baptist should want to vomit because that is the Dumbest thing that personally

56:55

I've ever Heard him say or have seen him, right? So Michael can say

57:02

Everything for life and godliness everything that's that's that we need to know In in Revelation is given to us in Scripture.

57:10

Nothing is to be added to it. Nothing's to be taken away from it But because he believes the

57:15

Spirit of God is still active not in giving revelation but in Guiding people and hey, he'll make the argument

57:23

New Testament self refers to Agabus as a prophet his daughters were prophetesses. Where are their prophecies in Scripture?

57:30

We don't have them So did they ever give any well, we would say yes, and they were only for that time

57:37

There he goes. You'll see You didn't you didn't you don't believe in the sufficiency of scripture at that time Well, you might argue.

57:44

Well, that's during the period of the Apostles But what would be the specific?

57:51

Apostolic, what would be the specific purpose of giving something like that to someone? unless it was solely pointing to the

57:58

Apostles and Their authority see these are issues that aren't gonna be brought up aren't gonna be discussed

58:06

They're just taken for there's taken for granted But that's the arguments gonna be made and that's why you have to make very careful category distinctions in your arguments for cessationism

58:17

Not just assume these things So if you read this you should have vomited at the stupidity of of yours truly by when

58:26

I accept Michael's argument because you know, I've actually read his books and as he addresses

58:32

Hyper -grace and the homosexuality issue. I've never seen him appeal To anything outside of scripture as being binding upon people.

58:41

Huh? That's interesting and he himself makes a statement But hey, he's just a liar. Anyways, right?

58:46

Well, that's sort of how that works It is laughable if there was a debate on the subject of whether or not charismatics holds the sufficiency of scripture

58:54

I would demolish him with a pinky finger and the other hand tied behind my back now remember,

59:00

I'm the one that oozes arrogance according to Jordan Hall But he would demolish me

59:09

With with with his pinky finger and the other hand tied behind his his back The problem is if he were actually to and I I would not encourage

59:21

Anyone to actually engage this man given his behavior, which is self -evident right here

59:26

Um, but the problem is you'd actually have to accurately represent them and notice he just used charismatics as a

59:36

Blanket They're all the same They all have the same beliefs and if there's if there's any really strong argument to be made

59:46

I would argue He can't argue this way because he's not being honest

59:54

But I would argue that the great variety of Viewpoints on so many issues including relationship to Roman Catholicism De -emphasis upon justification in many churches sound theology along those lines that to me is one of the arguments against an

01:00:18

Emphasis upon quote -unquote charismatic gifts That ends up pushing up against the concept of sufficiency of scripture

01:00:27

But I to make that argument you have to be able to distinguish Between what this person believes and that person believes and that person believes if you just all throw them into one big old pile

01:00:38

Like Jordan Hall does you can't even start to make that argument? But he doesn't need to worry about that because he's not concerned about making sound arguments

01:00:44

He's concerned about making arguments that get his base excited It's the red meat arguments that you get from pulpit and pen.

01:00:51

That's that's what gets people hitting the PayPal button and That's that's how that works.

01:00:57

It is patently ignorant and it is absurd to say so There is no hyperbole in the statement

01:01:05

I made this statement that Michael Brown believes in sneaky squid spirits ecstatic utterance

01:01:10

Relevatory dreams and visions and defends the most prominent false teachers in the world.

01:01:16

That's not hyperbole He literally defends those things now You if you listened to when

01:01:26

Michael was on if you listened to his statements then you know that once again what you've got functioning here is

01:01:34

It doesn't matter what he says Here is a person who has decided this man. Michael Brown is a deceiver and when he says

01:01:44

I Don't know what a sneaky squid spirit is and when Chris called my program

01:01:51

I had never heard this stuff. And so I wasn't look let's be honest What he was saying was

01:01:57

I'm not gonna take his word for it. He's misrepresented me. So he may be misrepresenting somebody else

01:02:05

Doesn't matter what he says he's a tool Satan and You're an ignoramus.

01:02:11

I think he used that term at some point there There's so many insults if after a while, I probably must have at some point

01:02:18

You're an ignoramus. If you if you don't see that it's just common sense You don't have to worry about making your arguments very pointed and you know

01:02:26

Providing much when you just use that kind of that kind of argumentation pretty pretty easy to do

01:02:31

We posted the now what James White keeps saying which I find to be unfortunate is now he hasn't promoted him

01:02:38

He hasn't endorsed them. He just won't attack on these friends with them He's not he's not Have you ever heard me talk like that?

01:02:46

Do I do I have a a lisp most of the time rich? Did I just maybe I don't

01:02:52

I don't catch, you know Okay, Roseboro provided screenshots from his book or from his response to Hank Hanegraaff back when

01:03:01

They notice they're going back to what when was that 19 the late 1990s somewhere around there

01:03:08

And connecting this to sneaky squid spirits in 2017 Hmm.

01:03:13

Why not? Why not? Do you think there might be something different between those two contexts? Maybe possibly? Because as I recall the response to Hanegraaff was in regards to the nature of revival

01:03:24

And it all had to do with an art, you know had to do Brownsville had to do with the Jonathan Edwards Remember all that stuff.

01:03:29

It was man It was a long time ago But it's being dragged back up and now attached to something in which he mentions

01:03:35

Rodney Howard Brown kith Copeland Benny and all of all of these

01:03:41

Prophets not Todd White. He's Johnny come lately, but he mentions them and he promotes them now

01:03:47

Michael Brown will go on his program and lie because he's of the devil and that's what you know Satanic people do and he'll say things like now

01:03:55

I haven't endorsed these people But they are friends of mine and they do love Jesus and I know their heart and they're solid

01:04:01

Christian brothers and sisters in The Lord, but I don't know everything they do so I haven't endorsed them The first thing that just came out of your mouth is they're solid

01:04:07

Christian brothers and sisters They love the Lord if that's not an endorsement you're playing fast and loose with language

01:04:14

You should be ashamed of yourself For that so here again the fundamentalist mindset

01:04:22

From his perspective if you say somebody's a Christian that means everything they say You endorse now, of course, he doesn't do that.

01:04:30

He has Chris Rose bond. He's in Lutheran Baptism regeneration stuff like that. So he doesn't he's not consistent about that But this is we're talking about the charismatic so we can all get to get together on that and you know

01:04:41

Same thing with Presbyterians and as long as it's the acceptable exceptions, then then we're then we're cool on that It is self -evidently plain

01:04:51

That from Michael's background That is not what he is doing

01:04:56

He believes that he is accountable before God for what he says and not what somebody else says in fundamentalist mindset the idea associationalism and separationism

01:05:08

Who you associate with who you separate from? this is the issue and Your orthodoxy is determined by your degree of separation and your discernment in association

01:05:25

That is not something that Michael ever would have been introduced to in a

01:05:31

Italian Pentecostal holiness context and so from his perspective

01:05:37

He says if I've not taught it if I have not stood before my church

01:05:43

If I have not been on my radio program and taught people to beware of sneaky squid spirits or whatever else it is if I haven't

01:05:54

Presented a case for that then I cannot be held accountable for it And if there are people that teach at my at a conference

01:06:02

I'm speaking at Just because I'm there does not mean I agree with everything everybody else says

01:06:08

Now I couldn't go to the conferences that he goes to by any like I'd be invited but I couldn't do that and So I have a much narrower comfort zone as to the associationalism aspect because of my background and I think

01:06:27

Michael has Too big a comfort zone along those lines but For some people there's no zone at all

01:06:36

That's what you're listening to now is someone who will take the position of judging the eternal salvation of a person who confesses

01:06:45

The Trinity the deity of Christ the person of the Holy Spirit justification by faith death by resurrection of Jesus Christ indwelling presence of the

01:06:53

Holy Spirit the second coming of Christ absolute necessity of God's grace and salvation will confess all those things, but he says doesn't matter

01:07:03

Argues against hyperpreterism defends a substitutionary atonement doesn't matter Doesn't matter you associate with too wide a group of people you're going to hell

01:07:16

That's what you're that's what you're hearing So I'm going to get into this post a little bit more

01:07:22

James White angrily attacks Chris Roseboro and discernment really attacks What I did

01:07:29

Um Let me pull this up real quickly since it was provided to me.

01:07:37

Thank you very much by to the person who provided to me Here it is,

01:07:45

I guess there is a date on this Oh lovely Get out the glasses here

01:07:56

Okay, this was February 7th So I couldn't have this must have been the February 8th, this must have been the day before There was a tweet

01:08:12

That was sent by Chris Roseboro Pirate Christian February this says February 7th

01:08:19

Here is the tweet Legit question for dr. Michael Brown. Is it a mortal or venial sin to deny that?

01:08:27

Michael the Archangel wears wrestling tights Okay, and then there is a evidently there was a link to Chris Volatone had never heard of him before in my life

01:08:43

And this special service to remember the Prophet Bob Jones Chris Valiton explains how he was visited by a gigantic Native American looking man who appeared and then it stops at that point

01:08:55

But evidently said something along the lines that Michael the Archangels always in a bad mood and he wears wrestling tights

01:09:05

Now I Chose to respond to this tweet because I had seen

01:09:14

Now just just keep in mind Michael has allowed Chris to call into his program multiple times.

01:09:21

And in fact once gave him an entire segment and I Have seen numerous tweets

01:09:30

Sent Michael's direction by Chris that I just sort of looked at him and went Obviously doesn't really want to have interaction here already has in the past, but hey, you know and I just Kept it to myself.

01:09:42

But when I saw this legit question it's a legit question and Jordan Hall is gonna spend

01:09:49

I Don't know 10 -15 minutes Arguing that it most certainly was no, it's not you know how it's obvious It isn't you know how any person with common sense knows that this was meant to be sarcastic

01:10:01

It was meant to be insulting and It was not a legit question question.

01:10:07

Is it a mortal or venial sin? Stop Who's the only person that that is relevant to?

01:10:16

Who are the only people who believe in? mortal and venial sins Roman Catholics Is Michael Brown a

01:10:23

Roman Catholic? No Has he ever confessed to believing in mortal venial sins?

01:10:29

No, does Chris Rosenthal know this yes, what does that mean to any person with a brain?

01:10:36

This is meant to be a tweak It is meant to be sarcastic.

01:10:41

It's meant to be a shot Anyone who says otherwise is just playing games as Jordan Hall is playing games

01:10:50

It wasn't a legit question. He doesn't believe in mortal venial sins.

01:10:56

It's right there Jordan's even gonna read it They skip over it.

01:11:02

He doesn't even mention it But it's right there. Is it a mortal or venial sin to deny that Michael the

01:11:08

Archangel wears wrestling tights now? obviously one of the major questions That anyone should have would be

01:11:16

Has Michael Brown ever said anything about this? Has he ever has he has he has he asked this man onto his program to promote this idea?

01:11:26

Has he taught this idea is there any evidence that at fire church while preaching that Michael has gone into the the dress of Michael the

01:11:37

Archangel or the Regular mood of Michael the Archangel. No, of course not and so What you have here is

01:11:50

The fundamental problem that I have been trying to point out and that is this idea that you will hold

01:11:57

One person accountable for what someone else teaches Inconsistently so this would be like my challenging

01:12:11

Jordan Hall Because he is promoting

01:12:17

Baptismal regeneration And Jordan Hall would say I don't promote baptism regeneration

01:12:24

But you call Chris Rosebaugh your friend and you speak at conferences with him and he does promote and defend

01:12:31

Baptismal regeneration. So since you are associated with him, you are promoting baptismal regeneration no matter what you say

01:12:39

And if you say otherwise, you're a liar. Well, that'll get us a long ways won't it?

01:12:48

Interesting enough. There are people who do that. I remember someone who Just honestly as a

01:12:55

Reformed Baptist told me that he could not speak at conferences with Presbyterians because Presbyterians Believe that our view of baptism is sinful and So I get it.

01:13:14

I Okay, I can speak at conferences with Presbyterians and I can actually sit down my

01:13:21

Presbyterian brethren and debate that very issue If you don't have that confidence or that freedom

01:13:32

Great but I am NOT going to hold you accountable For what you have not yourself taught

01:13:41

But Jordan Hall and Chris Rosebaugh will That's what the whole tweet was about That's what this was about It was a sarcastic snarky not legit question

01:13:54

Mortal venial sins proves that there's don't even argue it if you try to get around that you're just proving the point

01:14:01

Please recognize it just own up to it. He doesn't believe in mortal and venial sins.

01:14:06

So it wasn't serious and I responded by saying You know until you get this idea that he does not believe that he's accountable for what other people teach

01:14:18

You're never gonna get anywhere here. You're not accomplishing anything That's all

01:14:24

I did I wasn't attacking him I Was simply pointing out guys.

01:14:29

Come on. What what? There's so much going on today. There's so much that we need to be doing

01:14:36

Why are you doing this? What what what what good is it accomplishing just speak the truth and And let let the

01:14:46

Spirit of God go from there, you know That that's how I've always approached it. But obviously that's not the way to way to do it

01:14:54

So it wasn't that's the background there now I've read it for you So now you have have the background to this then

01:15:00

I want to demonstrate Why we're told in 2nd John not to commend someone like Michael Brown and why

01:15:06

James White is not only being foolish He's not only it's not only a mistake. It is sin s

01:15:11

I in it is sin on his part that he needs to repent Chris Roseboro tweeted out to Michael Brown Legit question for dr.

01:15:20

Michael Brown. Is it a mortal or venial sin to deny that Michael the Archangel wears wrestling tights? Okay, so there he read it

01:15:28

He has the same version of the tweet that I have Mortal venial sin never says a word about it

01:15:33

Never even it that's the last you'll hear it Never says a word about mortal venious and that never says now obviously

01:15:40

Michael doesn't bring him believe mortal venial sin Maybe he thinks he does. I don't know I mean he can he claims to have the gift of discernment and be able to you know

01:15:48

See what's in other people's hearts and stuff like that side, you know, maybe he maybe he thinks that But there you also have the accusation of sin on my part

01:16:00

He doesn't have any, you know, it doesn't bring any witnesses that buddy Accusation of sin basis. I got that's gonna come up later on and that's gonna be the second thing

01:16:07

I can get to And I've only got 14 minutes. So sorry about that. We'll just we'll press on There isn't really that much more

01:16:15

Call out James White. He didn't mention James White. He wasn't referring to James White Dogging James White but James White has to gallop in on his gallant steed of rich Pierce to his

01:16:25

Facebook page and he has to Defend Michael Brown because now he has skin in the game. Not even rich has any idea.

01:16:31

What do you do with it? It had nothing to do with rich I've no We have no idea what he's referring to there, but hey

01:16:39

We're not sure what color of the world is in Jordan's what color the sky is in Jordan's world is anyways So because James White has looked like an idiot because he's been an idiot for defending

01:16:49

Michael Brown and So he has to jump into the conversation and begin to attack attack a perfectly good

01:16:56

Person friend of mine a friend of Christianity notice you can read the tweets.

01:17:01

I never say anything about him It wasn't an attack. It was This kind of stuff doesn't accomplish anything you you you have to recognize what you're doing

01:17:11

It's all it was to call this an attack is absolutely absurd on on its face But most of what he's saying is absolutely absurd on space

01:17:19

Chris Roseboro and he says and you wonder why he struggles to take you seriously,

01:17:25

I Don't know if he said it like that Probably didn't say it at all. I typed it, but that's how it sounds in my head.

01:17:31

You wonder why he Struggles to take you seriously this is where the the program descended down to the playground in sixth grade and And then again, that's where the pulpit bunker is every day he oozes, okay

01:17:49

Yeah, that's why it was arrogance But I'm trying to get through all these things because rich has to know He has to be lying at this point.

01:17:56

He's not stupid. I would say he's either stupid or lying We know he's not stupid. This is me. He's talking about That leaves me not only concerned that he's you know,

01:18:04

I don't believe he's mentally disqualified from being an elder. I'm wondering if he is Spiritually disqualified from being an elder.

01:18:10

He's being dishonest So we're just we're just I'm trying to get down to the last one that I want to get to read this to you

01:18:17

Because he James is right in that Michael Brown Repeatedly denies that he endorses these people

01:18:26

And James White needs to read his Bible more maybe he needs to get out of the Quran he needs to break up with his

01:18:34

Quran scholar is a Muslim friend. They need to have one of those talks where it's like it's not me

01:18:41

It's you or it's not you. It's me They need to break up James needs to stop teaching and go back to his church and say

01:18:48

I need some instruction I need to be taught a little bit because I can't seem to remember

01:18:54

Pertinent portions of Scripture as they apply to my daily life. Yes, Michael Brown specifically and repeatedly denies

01:19:02

Endorsing these people here is what the scripture says Second Peter too, but false prophets also rose among the people just as there will be false teachers among you

01:19:12

So then he reads a number of scriptures about false prophets because of course Michael Brown's false prophet If I just you know

01:19:17

It's just common sense if I just read the Bible and wasn't reading the Quran all the time Which of course I'm not reading the Quran almost at all at the current point in time

01:19:25

But there it is again. There's there's your idea that and of course the stuff at Yaskati was just childish

01:19:32

Tripe from a very immature mind But they're there there you get that and so I should stop teaching and everything else

01:19:42

It couldn't be any more clear that he endorses these people in every meaning and definition of the word endorse

01:19:49

Read your Bible James White. Yeah, so if you don't if you don't agree with Jordan Hall, then you know

01:19:56

You're just just not reading the Bible enough So if you make if you make category distinctions actually engage with people's like that you're just not reading you're not

01:20:05

You're doing polemics man It's just that James White is doing it really poorly.

01:20:11

He's a really really bad polemicist He's being really ignorant He's hurting a lot of people and he needs to repent of hurting a lot of people

01:20:19

He needs to repent of disobeying God's Word. He needs to repent of having the exegesis of second

01:20:24

John of a three -year -old It was pathetic Now there's the there's the last section.

01:20:32

I wanted to get to I Don't know about you, but I can hear rage. I Hear rage.

01:20:38

I mean there his voice is trembling. He is so angry And that's we've we've tried to warn people that this man was gonna melt down and he's going to but That was the second point that the first point was

01:20:54

Don't confuse The issues of cessationism with a mere statement that the canon is closed

01:21:01

If you do that, you will destroy any meaningful defense of the topic, which is what he's done He doesn't realize that because he doesn't engage these people meaningfully

01:21:09

That's that's not his intention polemics for him is completely destructive. It's never constructive.

01:21:16

That's the difference between us That's why we're clashing and we need to I Believe that apologetics should be constructive.

01:21:23

It should be edifying to the Saints and It should be Evangelistic and should be constructive.

01:21:28

It should not be nuclear. It should not be destructive But there you have the assertion from Jordan Hall That the exegesis that I've provided of second

01:21:42

John specifically verses 7 through 11. Is that of a three -year -old? And I can guarantee you

01:21:50

None of the people that he associates with and likes to make drop names of regularly would ever have made the statement he just made

01:21:57

Because they know they could never back it up. They don't even believe it But Jordan Hall does believe it.

01:22:03

So here's the second Aspect I challenge

01:22:09

Jordan Hall right now Publish your exegesis of 2nd

01:22:15

John 7 through 11. I will do the same thing and We'll find out now this has to be exegesis

01:22:22

You need to deal with the original languages need to do with the text And we're gonna discover two things

01:22:28

First of all, no matter what he does he's gonna end up agreeing with the vast majority of what I have said which will either prove that he has the exegesis of a

01:22:35

Three -year -old or he was acting like a three -year -old when he said that one of the two and Secondly, what we're gonna discover is that he wasn't even talking about the exegesis of the text at all

01:22:46

He was once again confusing language. What he meant was the application of 2nd

01:22:53

John Not the exegesis of 2nd John He was probably just so angry at the time and giving vent to his rage that he didn't notice what he was saying

01:23:05

But no matter what he does No matter how in -depth an exegesis he provides

01:23:13

It's going to match because I know that what I will provide Will match very closely what you're gonna find in any meaningful reformed scholarly exegetical commentary and so no matter what he does, he's gonna have to agree with the vast majority what

01:23:29

I say, which will be the refutation of his own position and then

01:23:36

Hopefully in application, we will be able to see the leaps That are required for him to accomplish what he wants to do with this kind of attack.

01:23:48

So there's the challenge. I Will provide the written

01:23:54

Exegesis of that text. I'll provide a fresh translation of that text.

01:23:59

I would challenge Jordan Hall to do the same thing and Then we can compare them because if you're going to make that kind of accusation in the midst of accusing someone of sin then don't be surprised if you get challenged to back up your words and that would be something to be useful because All the comments

01:24:20

I've made on that about that have been on the program and not in written form. I Did that one short little thing?

01:24:27

It was only maybe what two or three paragraphs on Facebook and who can find anything on Facebook after what two months?

01:24:33

It's just I mean seriously, I mean, it's it's not like you can really search for stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so let's do it

01:24:41

Let's do it. Why don't you why don't you drop me a note? Let me know when you expect to be able to post that and we'll go from there

01:24:47

So there you go. That was the unpleasant stuff at the end, but hopefully the first 30 -35 minutes makes up for the the rest of stuff afterwards unhinged

01:24:58

Is what I called it and now having listened to it you can see and that's not even all of it Wouldn't even subject you to all of it.

01:25:06

There's there's much more that makes it even more unhinged once you listen to it You may not want to do that, but there you go.

01:25:13

So that's program for today Lord willing We'll see you probably on Thursday. I was thinking about trying to do something tomorrow, but probably on Thursday Hopefully we'll see you then.