Joel Webbon: A Baptist that upsets Baptists Right Response Ministries at Fight Laugh Feast

Dead Men Walking

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Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and all of the Fascinating Subjects in Between, Broadcasting from an

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Undisclosed Location, Dead Men Walking starts now. It's not undisclosed today,

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Joel. We are at Fight Laugh Feast in Knoxville, Tennessee, doing some events here.

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We are with our good friend, and he's been on the show before, Pastor Joel Webbin. How are you, sir?

00:31

I'm doing well, Greg. Thanks for having me. Oh, man. It was so nice seeing you here. I didn't know you were going to be here, and when I saw you,

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I said, yeah, we've got to have him on. We've got to talk. And if you're listening to this podcast right now, pause the podcast, go like and subscribe to Right Response Ministries, both on YouTube and anywhere you get your pods.

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We'll wait. Okay. Now that you're back and you're subscribed to that and you're listening to Pastor Joel, you may now continue with Dead Men Walking podcast.

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He is our favorite Baptist. Yeah. Well, I'm one of the only Baptists that will come to Fight Laugh Feast.

01:06

Come to Fight Laugh Feast. Now, there's a few of us. He's the Baptist among Presbyterians. Now, yeah, there are here. We joke around about that because you've kind of been,

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I don't want to say a lightning rod, but you've kind of been in the midst of this whole talk with Credo and Pato Baptism and Fight Laugh Feast or Cross Politics guys made some comments about, oh, you know, the trans community and linked it to baptism.

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And you were kind of outspoken on exactly what it is that you believe in. You know, you have friends in both camps and you're a

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Baptist pastor and you hold to scripture and we're brothers in the

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Lord. And I wanted to have you on just to kind of talk about that a little bit. Talk about, you know, the last few months have been crazy.

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I know your videos blow up online, obviously it's always because you're giving sound biblical content and I think people appreciate that.

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We talked about that yesterday a little bit. Those who actually stand up for truth are now becoming a lightning rod.

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But I think people, I think believers are yearning for that. They're yearning for men of God who speak biblically, who exegete properly and who aren't afraid to do it in the face of any type of backlash from whether it's secular culture or woke

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Christianity. So yeah, that's a big intro, guys. So what's going on, man?

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Tell us a little bit about the last couple months. Yeah, well, I think I keep getting in trouble with Baptists, you know, and part of it is, you know, so like I want to, if some of the guys who don't like me, if they were sitting right here and they got to, you know, they'd say, well, that's good, we don't, you're not getting along with Baptists because you're a federal vision, which is just dumb.

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That's like, it's not just that that's wrong or it's slander or it's just, you know, it's just misinformed, but it's intellectually dumb.

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Like it just doesn't, it covenantally doesn't work. You can't be Baptist in federal vision. You can't.

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And I am thoroughly Baptist. I do not believe that my children by virtue of their physical birth to my wife and I are in the new covenant.

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You know, all my, everybody here wants me to believe that. That's about as Baptist as you can be. Yeah, so I'm, I'm going to administer.

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So I believe, you know, baptism is the way that the one joins the many. And then, and then we have the, you know, it's the initiating

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O sign and then we have this renewal O sign, this renewing covenant ceremony in the Lord's supper, which

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I do believe should be weekly and our church does it weekly. But it's a renewing O sign. So the Lord's supper is where the many are joined as one.

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So first Corinthians chapter 10, you know, just as we have one loaf of bread, we who are many are one. So baptism is the initiating

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O sign. The Lord's supper is the renewing O sign and all of this needs to follow regeneration.

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And Baptists don't, we don't have election goggles and neither do Presbyterians, but we're doing our best or due diligence that it would follow a credible profession of faith.

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So my oldest right now, I have four kids and my oldest is four years old. So we've got four, four and under and, and none of them are baptized.

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But I'm not in the Mark Dever camp, you know, so I'm, I'm going to baptize Lord willing.

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I'm going to baptize my kids younger. I'm not going to Mark Dever, Capitol Hill Baptist. They want to baptize pretty much any kid in the church until they're at least a legal adult, 18 or older.

04:18

Oh wow. Whereas I would be much more in like the apologia frame with like James White and, and Jeff Durbin like where they, you know, it may not be the common practice, but they would baptize a four year old.

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Sure. You know, if that, if they saw true, that's right. Profession of faith understood. God regenerates four year olds, you know, so, so we're not, he also talks to seven year olds in the

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Old Testament. That's right. You know, Samuel. And so, so all that, like my, my position is simply that I believe that what

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I've been trying to tell people is unconditional election is not synonymous with arbitrary election. God works through means we can't sever the same

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God who predestines the ends, namely the salvation or lack thereof of our children.

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The God who determines the ends, whether or not to save is the same God who, who also determines predestines the means by which we get there.

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And the means being predominantly the preaching of the gospel, Romans chapter 10, verse 14.

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How will they believe unless they hear? How will they hear? Less than one preaches. How will they preach unless they're sent blessed to the feet of those who, who bring good news?

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And in terms of preaching, the predominant preaching apart from preaching biblical faithful local churches is, is

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Christian families. Parents preach day in, day out. Don't send your kids to state public schools that preach public atheism, right?

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So Christian school or homeschool, Christian homeschool and going to a

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Christian church and the ordinary means of grace. And if these means of grace are, our kids are being saturated in these means of grace.

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Sure. And we have these promises of, yeah, yeah. That's not a 100 % guarantee.

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There's no way for us to work the God of the universe into our debt where our good parenting means that God owes us the salvation of our kids.

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I'm not saying any of that. All I'm saying though, is I think we should lean on, on a, in not presumption, but eager and hopeful, joyful expectation that more often than not, ordinarily

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God's going to save our kids. Not half of them, not one of them, but all of them. Right.

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I say something like that on Twitter and Baptists lose their minds. This is what's being like, this is what's being called federal vision.

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It's not even Presbyterian, much less federal vision. Yeah. I refuse to believe that what it means to be

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Baptist is to believe that it is God's common practice, AKA more often than not, that he will not save at least some or all of our kids.

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That is not Baptist. That's all I'm saying. I'm just saying, that's not Baptist. I can be a Baptist and believe that God's going to save my kids.

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And the Baptists keep coming out and saying, no, you can't. Wow. Yeah. So I keep getting in trouble. But I mean, historically, that is what

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Baptist is though, what you just explained. Don't you have a historical foundation for that?

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Yeah. Historically, just Christian Orthodox doesn't sever means of grace from ends of grace.

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Right. Right. So if Paul's sent to a town to preach, he's expecting that God's sending them there because there are elect souls.

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Now, again, to play the devil's advocate, someone's going to say, yeah, and so you can preach and some of your kids will be elect souls.

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But here's part of the problem. So for me, like my framework, they'd be like, well, you're getting into this covenant succession and all this kind of...

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All right. So pause for a second. Covenant succession, literally, technically defined, is it, again, not presumption, not guaranteed, not 100%, but it's defined as the eager expectation that the children of believers will succeed their parents in the faith due to covenant nurture.

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Not nature, but covenant nurture, meaning we don't believe in regeneration semen.

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Right. Right? But we do believe that God works through means, and it's not means earning, it's not means of grace earning salvation.

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No, but it's just saying, but the same God who unconditionally determines the end also unconditionally determines the means.

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And if God has determined for an individual to spend their whole life under the means of grace, the fountain of grace, it's probably, not guaranteed, but we can assume that it's probably because they're elect.

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So I don't view my children as regenerate, not yet, maybe my four -year -old, but not yet.

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And I don't view my children before regeneration as being in the new covenant as a Presbyterian Westminster.

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But I do view my children as elect. They're not in the new covenant because the door to the new covenant is faith.

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I'm Baptist. Yeah. Right? But I do view them as being elect, meaning I don't think the salvation of my kids is a matter of if,

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I just think it's when. And I mean, biblically those promises do say that, but I'm wondering, do you think that is why we've gotten to this kind of watered down evangelical church of a sinner's prayer for a child so we can just see and we can say, okay, that's the point.

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Now my child's going to heaven. Now my child's part of the family. And it's this weird thing. And then two, the

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Presbyterian and the Baptist don't believe that baptism is salvific. So I have listeners on here that are non -denominational and they'll say, well, what's the big deal then?

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Why are we even having this conversation? What's the practical reason to have this conversation with our Baptist and Presbyterian brothers over pedo versus credo?

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Why even have it if it's not salvific? How does it affect our lives or your children's lives? Yeah. Well, I think the reason...

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No, that's a great question. I think the reason we're having the conversation is because it's not just when to apply the signs and seals of baptism in the

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Lord's Supper. It's not just how do we think through the sacraments or the ordinances. It's our view of children.

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It's our view of families. And this gets into our view of communities. It gets into our view of nations.

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It gets into Christian nationalism. All these kinds of things, which I don't think... You don't have to be a Presbyterian. You don't have to have a

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Westminster covenantalism, federalism in order to get behind some of the stuff that fight, laugh, feast kind of guys, you know, rowdy

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Christians are saying that most of them tend to be Presbyterian. You can get behind that exegetically as a

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Baptist. But the reason why it's a fight is if... So you're like, why are we having the conversation?

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I'm not having the conversation. Notice, I'm not having the conversation with Presbyterians. Because they don't care.

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They're like, yeah, so Joel's going to baptize his kids too late. And I'm saying, you're going to baptize your kids too early.

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So we're not having the conversation. We're not having debates. We're getting along just fine. Who am

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I having problems with? It's not the Presbyterians. It's the Baptist. Why? Because the

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Baptists insist, they insist that there is a great likelihood that some or all of my kids are going to grow up and go to hell.

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And I have a... Yeah, I'm going to argue with them. Yeah, you're going to argue. Yeah. I'm going to argue with them. My three daughters and son are not going to hell.

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No. No. Could they? Yes. Theoretically? Yes. Theologically? Yes. But practically?

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No. No. No. That is not going to be my mindset in viewing my children.

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I am viewing my children not as regenerate and not as New Covenant members. They are totally depraved.

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Yeah. Okay? As we all are. They are vipers and diapers. I'm not going to call them that. And I'm going to raise them as pre -Christians.

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Right. Meaning, I'm going to teach them the Lord's Prayer. And when I teach them the Lord's Prayer, I'm not going to revise it. I'm going to say, hey, sweetheart, you need to pray, our great enemy who art in heaven, who hates me with the righteous hatred of...

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No. Our Father. Right. Is God her adopted father yet? My three -year -old daughter, my one and a half...

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I don't think so. Okay. I don't think they're saved yet. So they are technically enemies of God. They need to be born again.

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But I'm not evangelizing them as pagans. Right. I'm evangelizing... It is still evangelism.

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But I'm evangelizing them as pre -Christians. I am training them, saying, we're a

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Christian family. As for me and my house, we serve the Lord. We love Jesus. You love Jesus, don't you, sweetheart? Yeah.

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Yeah, I love Jesus. Yeah. Like, that's what we're doing. And there will be a real point where it shifts from heart of stone to heart of flesh.

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That has to happen. Yes. And I don't believe it's happened yet, at least for my three -year -old and my one and a half -year -old.

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Maybe for my four -about -to -be -five -year -old. She might be regenerate. And we're probably a year or two away from baptizing her.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, we have the discussion every day. But that's my point, is

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I believe God's going to save my kids. And so all that being said, I don't think we need the argument over when to baptize.

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No. But we do need the argument over does God keep steadfast covenant with households or just individuals?

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And from there, is America a Christian nation? Did we make a covenant with the

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Lord? Yeah. Like, people say, no, no, no. Like, everybody wants to rewrite history. Sure. Because that's how you dictate the future.

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Right? You've got to get the dictionary. You've got to change definitions. You've also got to get the history books. And so I would say, no, no,

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America is a Christian nation. They weren't all a bunch of deists. They weren't all a bunch of Unitarians. That's bullcrap.

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Yeah. Thomas Jefferson was a Unitarian. There's a few deists in the works. Ben Franklin for the middle of his life.

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Yeah. From beginning and end, he was. Yeah. Absolutely. And George Washington, evangelical. Yeah. I'm not going to give up George Washington.

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And so, like, we were founded as a Christian nation with a covenant. Not like Israel. That's unique.

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But still, God still makes covenants with communities, with households, with nations.

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I believe that. And I believe America made a covenant with the Lord, and we've been blessed because of it.

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And so right now, is America a Christian nation? I would say no, but not because we never were, but because we're currently in the process of apostatizing.

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Yeah. And we need to repent. Like, Doug Wilson would say, it's not make America great again, it's make

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America Christian again. Again. Again. So that's my view. That's where I'm at.

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That trickles down to my view of families, to my view of households, all these kinds of things that does not cause me to be

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Presbyterian in terms of the timing of the signs and seals and sacraments. I believe that the new covenant, there's only one door, and it's faith and regeneration.

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I believe that the seals should follow faith. I don't believe that. But here

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I am, hopeful for every single kid that I'm going to have, hopeful for all the other kids in my church with Christian parents, hopeful for the nation of America, and I think

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Baptists don't like some of the rhetoric that I'm using because they still want some kind of ability to assuage their guilty consciences for the kids growing up and apostatizing.

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Well, I'm wondering if maybe those, I almost said particular Baptists, but I meant those specific, particular is a theological term, but I'm wondering if it's because practically it doesn't look like there's too much difference between what you're saying, and hey,

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I'm not giving that up and saying, oh, some of my kids or all of my kids are going to hell. It looks like practically there's not a lot of difference between that Presbyterian and Baptist position.

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Now, there's an actual baptism difference of when in the timeline, but it looks like both the

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Presbyterian and the Baptist, as you're saying in those instances, are practically doing the same thing, because I know a lot of Presbyterians that will say, yeah, we just had a discussion with Jared a few minutes ago, and he's talking about the ice cream shop and getting the ice cream, and it's the difference between the partaking and just being in the shop, and I go, okay, well, what's good for the kid to be in the shop and then leaves the shop then?

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What's the difference there in that covenant, you're saying? And what he's explaining to me sounds very practically what you're saying.

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Oh, me too. No, there's a promise. We've had the conversation several times. It's in the future, right. And for all those listening, go check out that conversation you guys had on Right Response Ministries.

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It was an amazing conversation, long -format conversation, but it sounds like maybe they're getting upset because there's not enough difference practically,

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I'm saying. Both you and the Presbyterian are both saying, no, I'm not giving up my child to hell.

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They're absolutely practically going to heaven because of the covenantal promises

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I preach to them every day. You know? Yeah, so exactly. So it matters. It's the timing of baptism, the sacraments, but that stems from your view of the covenant.

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Me and Jared, we have a different form of covenant theology. I would still be in the 1689, what he has left now, and he would be

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Westminster Federalism or Westminster Covenantalism. So we actually do have a different view of the covenant.

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He's got a little bit more continuity, whereas I would say, no, that's the euphemism for what

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I would say is like, no, it's steamrolled a little bit too much. And he would say, no, Joel, you're just still a little bit too choppy, and I would say, no, this is just right.

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MacArthur's choppy. I'm just right. You know? So anyway, so we disagree over that, like, you know, so it's not just the timing of, you know, the sacraments stems from our view of the covenants, but you're right in terms of its practical implications on how we do ministry and how we view the family, we're real close.

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So that's why we get the Baptist that, like, it's the typical Baptist that's actually further from me in terms of practical implication.

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Theoretically, I'm closer to Tom Hicks, but practically, I've got nothing in common with Tom Hicks, because he wants to say, like, you want to apply the law of God, and you want to win nations and disciple them, and you believe your kids, like, basically like Tom Hicks, his guiding force is losing.

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All those things, if we believe that and did that, things would go well. We can't have that.

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We got to lose. We got to lose. That's John MacArthur's guiding principle. We got to lose. And so I think the

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Baptists are, this is going to be, I think the Baptists are so used to losing that they can't embrace any theology that would leave a possibility of winning, because then how do they make sense of all the kids that they've lost, of all the kids who grew up and, you know, abandoned the faith and went apostate and all this.

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And I just want to say, but maybe that's just because you sent them to public school, and you didn't do family worship in the home, and you didn't do family integrated worship in your churches.

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Your kids went to children's church, which is not church. It's Christian childcare, for all the way through elementary school, some of them all the way through middle school, some of them all the way to 18 years old, but your kid never went to church.

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Yeah. Your kid never went to church. They never even saw the ordinances of the

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Lord's Supper and Baptism. You had no family worship in the home. You sent them to a school that teaches public atheism, and then they didn't go to church.

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You say, why didn't the pizza party at youth groups say that, you know, once a week? And so you're trying to make sense of that, and saying, you want to hang your hat on unconditional election.

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What I want to say, you know, God hardens whom He hardens, He has mercy on whom He has mercy. What I want to say is unconditional election is not synonymous with arbitrary election.

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God does choose unconditionally. We can never work the God of the universe into our debt where He owes us the salvation of our kids, but God works through means, and where the means of grace are plentiful and present, we can expect, hey,

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I think I know what God's up to here, because He never works apart from means. He doesn't save in midair.

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He saves through the gospel, and so we can say, hey, God doesn't owe me.

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I don't have a guarantee, but I think I know what God's up to here. The means of grace are so present in these young little children's lives,

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I bet you it's because they're elect. I bet you it's because He's going to save them. I bet you it's a matter of when and not if.

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We can say that, but Baptists are looking at just the stats of the last 20 years, how many kids grew up and denied the faith, and they're like, and so what they want to do is like unconditional election, man, and what

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I want to do is say faithless parenting, man. How dare you, Joel.

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That's federal vision. That's Doug Wilson. They're like, no. That's the connection. Too much introspecting.

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Yeah. That's just owning our sin as Baptists. We parented poorly, and we need to own that.

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Means and ends of grace are connected. Yeah. No, that's good. I feel like, too, the majority of non -denominational churches are

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Baptist -lite, and Baptist gets looped in with that.

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You have a Hillsong or a Bethel, well, they're basically American Baptists, when in fact

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Baptist as a denomination is something so much more rich and specific and biblical than just kind of this...

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Well, particularly Baptists are, yeah. Yeah. 1689 Reformed Baptists or Particular Baptists have a rich history for sure, but you're right.

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Baptist is just encompassing. I mean, Stephen Furtick is Baptist. That's what I mean. If we're saying Baptist in the broad.

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That's what I mean. So that kind of gets thrown around, and then I wonder if, and you can comment on this because you're in the throes of it, but I wonder if it gets exasperated by you just kind of have these guys who just follow certain people, and they go, you know,

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I really like the flavor of Jeff Durbin and Joel Webben right now, and those are my guys. Ooh, no, now I like the flavor of Doug Wilson, and the cross -politic guys are, ooh,

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I really like the flavor of this or that, and they just kind of go on teams because of whoever they like at that moment instead of actually exegeting the word and really trying to study and have the word speak to them, because then that's where we get all this online...

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I mean, it's crazy some of the stuff I've seen people say about you, about Jared, about Doug, even

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Jeff a few years ago got into it for coming to a Fight Laugh Feast, and they said, well, isn't he this and that, and you go, well, these are secondary issues.

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We're all brothers in the Lord, and who's really saying all these things? These people who just pick a team,

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I guess, pick a, you know, a Team Joel or a Team Jeff or a Team Doug, and I feel like that just makes the problem worse when we should have, and what sounds like what you're saying, too, is a little more unity on secondary issues, like I can see.

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And you've stated very clearly, I do not agree on these things with a Jared or with a Doug or you know what

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I mean, and I'll state them clearly why I don't, but in the same time, you're sitting here at a

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Fight Laugh Feast conference and probably in the minority denominator, right? Yeah. Well, yeah.

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I think there's probably a lot of particular Baptists here, like Reformed Baptist guys here. They keep coming up to me. You're the rock star here, man.

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We might be the minority. They're like, good to see you, Joel. Exactly. One for our team. I'm like, I met 20 of them, but that might be all of them, you know, and they just came up to me because they know

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I agree with them, but all that, yeah, for sure. I think part of it is, it's not so much

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Baptism, Covenant Theology is important, it's vital, but it's not so much, it's more of our methodology, our philosophy of ministry instead of just the raw theology, it's like, do we believe there's actually a culture war or not?

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And if there is, do we believe it's time to fight or are we still saving our cultural capital for the real fight once it's already too late and we've been shipped off to the gulags?

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That's a Jonathan Lehman, that's a Jonathan Lehman knockdown. But like, you know, like what are we,

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I think everybody who's like, we're in a culture war, we need to fight all of Christ for all of life, the sufficiency of Scripture, not just exegetic, but Scripture applied, applied to the political realm, cultural.

23:58

These guys, that's the guys who are at Fight Left, Feast. And there's some doctrinal stuff that we've got to iron out, particularly

24:05

Baptists, we've got some things to work through and figure out. Like what is a particular Baptist view of civil legislation?

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Like we've got to do some serious theological work in the civil realm as particular Baptists. Presbyterians have done way more work on that than we have.

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And Presbyterians, they've got some work that they've got to, you know, so we all have theological work. But what we agree on is we're at war.

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That's what it is. It's Sons of Issachar. We know that like, that's all it is. Like if you're wondering like, what team am

24:35

I on? The common denominator that sets, that decides what team you're on is, can you tell time?

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Do you have a watch? That's literally like what everyone at Fight Left, Feast has a watch. That's what makes us on the same team.

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We know what time it is. We know what time it is. There's a bunch of guys in the

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SBC that don't know what time it is. There's a bunch of guys in the PCA have no clue what time it is.

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They don't know what time it is. So we're not, so I've got way more in common with Chalk Knox and Toby and Gabe who we talk regularly and they're friends and they make fun of me and I'll make fun of them.

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Actually I'm way nicer. Presbyterians are way, somebody asked me, they're like, who makes fun of, do Baptists tease

25:15

Presbyterians about baptism more or Presbyterians? And I was like, oh dude, it's not even close. It's a 10 to 1 ratio. Presbyterians make fun of Baptists 10 times more than we make fun of them.

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But anyway, so they make fun of me, but I can handle it because I'm not effeminate and I'm not a girl, I'm a man, right? So we're boys and so we can laugh and we can have a good time.

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But the thing is, we all know what time it is. We know we're at war and we're ready to fight and we believe in sufficiency of scripture and applying the law of God.

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We agree with the third use of the law. We're hopeful in our eschatology.

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We're not pessimistic. We don't think we lose like all the crisis came to save your meek and mild. So that's like, that's kind of like when you think of drawing the circle and where's my team, where's my tribe and all that, that's where we're at.

25:59

Presbyterian Baptist, that's just like so far down on the list for us. You know what I mean? Yeah.

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But other guys, they're like. That's their thing. That's way high in the list. It's, I don't, but I don't think it is.

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They think it is. I think they're saying, Joel, you're, you're switching teams, you're going federal vision and they're making an issue of like, of, of theology and covenant theology and all like, but it's not.

26:21

Um, it's, uh, they're still on the radical to kingdom. We don't fight and we don't fight because we're, we're cowards.

26:29

No, no, no, no. That's not it. That couldn't possibly be it. It couldn't be a lack of spine. We don't fight on principle because of our just fervent commitment to doctrine.

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We are sojourners passing through. We're meant to be the minority, a remnant little flock.

26:47

Look at the language of scripture. Um, crisis determined things will get worse and worse and worse.

26:52

He's coming back in 15 minutes. There's really not much purpose in the, and, and, and this is our position and no, it's not because of, uh, a lack of character, a lack of courage.

27:02

It's depressing. It's super depressing, but they would, they would defend what I see as cowardice, um, by saying, no, it's theological conviction and that's our problem with you.

27:13

Um, right. So my point is like the Baptist who don't like me, it's not, it's not over baptism. Yeah. That's what you'll see on Twitter.

27:19

It's not over baptism and it's not over a covenant theology. It's a, there's a crew that's fighting the culture war.

27:25

I'm joining that crew. I'm keeping my Baptist theology, but I'm joining that crew in my methodology saying, yeah,

27:33

I'm going to start swinging a sword. Allied forces. Right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then these guys are saying he's, he's, uh, in federal vision on the covenant theology.

27:43

That's not their issue. Their issue is one more guy is joining the ranks and fighting and the more guys that do that, we start being seen for the cowards that we are and we don't like that.

27:54

So that's my assessment. So as we finish this up here, uh, are you going to be talking about that at the, uh, right response conference?

28:01

Talk about this for a little bit because I'm, you got a heck of a lineup. Yeah. I think, uh, dr.

28:06

White's going to be there. You're going to be there. Tell the people a little bit about where they could find that if they want to buy tickets and hear you speak as well.

28:13

Cool. Yeah. So that we're going to have a dr. Gary DeMar, uh, dr. Joseph boot. And then, oh yeah.

28:18

And DeMar and white and webbing. Oh my gosh. Awesome. I'm appreciate it.

28:24

It's like one of these things is not like the other, but yeah. So we got, we got, um, James White, Joe, Joe boot and Gary DeMar and it'll be

28:32

May 5th through the 7th of next year in Georgetown, Texas, which is like 40 minutes

28:39

North of Austin. Um, so you would fly into Austin and then just drive up a little bit. And um, it's a, it's a

28:46

Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and you can register at right response ministries. We'll link everything up to for everyone.

28:52

Okay. Thanks. This goes out. I'm sorry. It's not right response ministries. It's right. Response conference .com. Right. Response.

28:57

But we made it as cheap as possible. So it's like, so for the conference that we're at right now, it was like, like, um,

29:04

I had to do a payment plan. It's like 12 payments. Right. It's not that bad. But like, they're right.

29:10

It's just like right. Check out the cash. Right. Give it to Gabe. Yeah. Okay. But it's like 250 bucks for white lab fees.

29:16

And I'm not saying it's a rip off or anything. I think it's worth it. But like we try to make ours as cheap as possible. So right now for an adult, it's a hundred flat.

29:23

Wow. So, but we are going to raise it November 1st. Yeah. So, so I say that to say, right.

29:29

Response. We'll get this out before then. So they can do an early bird. Yeah. Uh huh. Right. Response. Conference. Dot com.

29:34

If you want to register for a hundred bucks for, you know, for Joe boot and Gary DeMar and James White. I'll tell you what.

29:39

Come out. When, when Reverend Joe boot was on the podcast and he starts talking about, uh, the money on, on, uh, on the

29:47

Denari and give on to Caesar and governments and Peter's speech. You're like, oh my gosh, this guy's just, he's just, he's just so passionate about that.

29:56

So, I mean, in DeMar, obviously great lineup and James White, the one who, uh, who, who got me, uh, to start looking at the

30:04

Bible in a reformed light, uh, reformed view. Yeah. Me and James White were the, somebody said on, uh, social media said, uh, you've got two, uh,

30:15

Jedi masters and two Padawans, uh, but they were kind, you know, like they were like two worthy

30:21

Padawans. So me and White, Dr. White are the Padawans cause the conference, I guess I should have said this, but the whole conference is on Postman.

30:28

It's a post millennialism. So every session, everyone's going to do two sessions.

30:33

Okay. So like Dr. White's going to do to Joe boot, Gary DeMar, and I'm, I'm going to do one, but all three of them are going to do two sessions and we're also going to have two 90 minute panels each night,

30:43

Friday night and Saturday night, um, where everybody's going to be up and we're going to do multiple Q and a from, from the audience and things like that.

30:50

But the whole theme is, um, post millennialism and theonomy. Two things people are asking a lot of questions about right now too.

30:57

Getting into the weeds. Like what does this look like for a Baptist? What's it look like for, so anyway, so we got Gary DeMar and Joe boot who have like, they're like, they're like, we've been doing this way before it was cool.

31:08

I know. Right. Right. So I invited them cause it's like, it can't just be everybody like me and everybody else who 15 minutes ago, it's like, if I'm going to do, if I became a

31:17

Jaspeterian and I did a conference on Westminster covenantalism and I invited me and Jared to be the only speakers, you know, not a lot of, you gotta go back a little farther.

31:28

Yeah. So me and Dr. White will be there, but we're going to be kind of the, we'll have our hands securely held.

31:35

Are you doing any, uh, you do any booths or anything or just conference this time? Well, we're not going to do any workshops or anything like that.

31:42

So it's just going to be a main sessions and then it's going to be panels. Um, and we might do some booths, but maybe some vendors or something.

31:50

Okay. If part of it, I want to see how many guys we can get to register. So right now we're at like a hundred close to 120 registered and our goal is to have 500.

31:58

Okay. Um, but we have 120 and um, and once we have like, get into like two 50 or something halfway, then

32:06

I'll probably start reaching out to some booths cause they get boost there. It like, I need to be able to tell them we're actually going to have like people will be there.

32:12

Sure. You know, so yeah, it's a lot of work doing one of these. It is. Is this your first or second one? Well, we did like a, like last minute with John Harrison, 80

32:20

Robles earlier this year in March and we had 250 people and it was great, but this is our first time doing it like, like full blown promoting it and doing a lot of work.

32:32

Cool. I look forward to, we'll have to talk offline. I might have to show up to that one because man, those talks are going to be stellar with that lineup.

32:39

Yeah. I hope. Cool. Well, Joel, thanks so much for stopping by at the podcast here and right response ministries .org

32:47

or .com. Remind me. So yeah, it's right response ministries .com, but, but for the conference, it's right response conference conference .com.

32:54

Guys go check that out. We'll make sure we link everything up. Our good friend Joel Pastor Joel Webb in here as always guys, thanks for listening and God bless.

33:01

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