Matt Slick Live: July 22, 2024

CARM

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

00:07

Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM .org.

00:14

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

00:24

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. I hope you're all having a good day and that you have or you had a good weekend.

00:35

I did. And today's date for the listeners, podcasters, is July 22nd, 2022.

00:42

And if you want to give me a call, all you need to do is dial 877 -207 -2276 and we can hear from you.

00:54

And I'm going to fix that later, that date thing on the thumbnail

01:01

I messed up. On Rumble, which reminds me, if you want to watch on Rumble, you can.

01:06

All you have to do is go to Rumble .com forward slash Matt Slick Live. The same thing on, oh, you have to see

01:13

Matt Slick Live, wait, it's YouTube forward slash Matt Slick Live also. All right, all right.

01:19

So as you guys know, as I tell you, that I frequently go into chat rooms and I'm always targeted by a lot of people for a lot of different things, sometimes just for questions, but a lot of times for really nefarious kind of comments and accusations, okay, whatever.

01:39

And I was in a room with some atheists and we're discussing various things and it occurred to me to write an article on which political party the

01:51

Antichrist would belong to. And so I did and I wrote the article and I released it and I wanted to go over it a little bit and talk about it to see what some of you might be thinking about it because I think it's an interesting, well,

02:07

I think it's an interesting idea, I do. I think it's an interesting idea to talk about which political party might the

02:14

Antichrist belong to. So not a big deal, but I'm going to share my screen here so that others can, let's see if I can do it this way.

02:23

Yeah, there we go. I think that works or is that one better or let's see, this one, I'll do that one right there.

02:32

Now, anyway, so I did this, I released a video that I did this already, but I released a video on YouTube and Rumble about this with the article.

02:42

I think it's important to us to consider this. So I'm going to be using this more and more talking with people because Jesus, I mean,

02:52

First John says a spirit of Antichrist is already in the world. And it occurred to me that the people

02:59

I speak to so often are Antichrists, particularly the atheists and the mockers and the liars and things like that.

03:07

So what political aspects or aspirations does the Antichrist have according to the

03:14

Bible? Well, I'm going to go through my article a little bit and get to those points, but there's some aspects about the

03:23

Antichrist a lot of people don't know. He's going to have a withered right arm and blind in the right eye.

03:30

He's going to receive a head injury and some think that he might be resurrected or a false kind of resurrection to mimic the resurrection of Christ.

03:40

And he will have great power. All right. So I'm going to go over some of this stuff. I'm going to read the verses that deal with this.

03:48

This is out of Daniel 1137. He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other

04:00

God, for he will magnify himself above all. Now he will have no regard for the desire of women.

04:06

So this tells me that he's probably going to be homosexual. If he's homosexual, that means he would approve of the

04:15

LGBTQ movement, wouldn't he? Because he'd be right inside of that movement. So I would say that politically speaking, the

04:21

Antichrist would be pro LGBTQ. Also, since the Antichrist activity would be in accord with Satan, 2

04:28

Thessalonians 2 .9, and Jesus says Satan was a murderer, John 8 .24, then the killing of the unborn would be something he'd support.

04:37

So he'd be, so to speak, pro -choice. I hate that phrase, pro -choice.

04:43

We're for choice, yeah. To kill the life in the womb. Yeah.

04:49

Anyway, so as it says in 2 Thessalonians 2 .9, he's the one who's coming in arrival in accord with the activity of Satan in John 8 .44.

05:01

He was a murderer from the beginning, so he undoubtedly will be pro -abortion.

05:08

And how about this? One of the prophecies about the Antichrist deals with his ambitions for worldwide economic control.

05:19

So he'd probably advocate for globalism, open borders, a reduction of national sovereignty and a worldwide system of identification.

05:30

Now we can say that because he had to have his mark. So in Revelation 13 .7, it says, it was also given to him to make war with the saints, we'll get to that later, and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

05:47

So he's going to be in economic control. And he provides, in Revelation 13 .17, he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

06:01

We know the number of his name is 666. So he would support a one world government. He would definitely do that.

06:08

Now he could draw some more things out of it, but basics, so far what we have is he'd be pro -LGBTQ, he'd be pro -abortion, he would be in support of one world government.

06:20

Does this remind you of a political party yet? It does with me, and I'm not going to say which one.

06:26

I want you to decide what you think, because this could go into Europe as well. People could ask the same question.

06:33

Check this out. Now this is the idea that he will force compliance with his policies, as mentioned above. He will be in political control of many nations.

06:41

So in light of this, it makes sense to say that he would seek to indoctrinate people into accepting his policies.

06:48

And how would he do that? Well, he would use schools, work, the media, for liberal indoctrination.

06:56

Hey, which party's doing that? In fact, his power and control would be so great that many people will even accept him as a divine figure.

07:03

A lot of people don't know that, but that is the case. Again, let's go to Revelation 13, 17.

07:09

He provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

07:16

And here's where it says, you'll get to this in Revelation 13, 12, he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and he makes the earth and all who dwell in it to worship the false beast whose fatal wound was healed.

07:31

So he's going to be looked at even as a divine figure. Now, the political parties that we're aware of don't do that yet.

07:39

So I don't know. You know, now, I won't get into that, it's really stretching there.

07:46

So he would want to force compliance. Well, obviously, you can't buy or sell without his mark.

07:51

I mean, he's going to force compliance, and that's going to be done in a lot of ways. And he'll have control of the schools, the media, and workplaces.

07:59

I see this in the workplaces, liberal places of the work. You have to have leftist values in order to continue to work.

08:06

And how many of the leftists do you know of where they have attacked conservative groups and tried to get banks to cancel their ability to even just do commerce?

08:17

The left is so fair, isn't it? They want fairness and compliance.

08:22

They want to be able to have free speech for them.

08:29

And if you don't agree with them, well, then, you're the trouble, and they'll silence you.

08:36

You know, the hypocrisy of the left. Which political party is that to you? How about this one?

08:41

He will use deception. The Antichrist would employ deception to gain and maintain power. That's 2 Thessalonians 2, 9 says that he is, the

08:50

Antichrist is the one who's coming, is in accord with the activity of Satan with all power and signs and false wonders.

08:57

And 2 John 7, for many deceivers have gone out into the world. Those who do not acknowledge

09:03

Jesus Christ is coming into flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist. Notice the

09:08

Antichrist is associated there with deception. Now, is there a political party or movement that you know of where deception is very commonly used?

09:20

Where deception is something that they do? You know, hey, Russian disinformation, et cetera, et cetera.

09:27

Which party is using that as a form of control? And here's another one.

09:34

We'll make war with the Christians. That was already mentioned, but I'll go into it a little bit more. Daniel 7 .25,

09:39

he'll speak out against the most high and wear down the saints of the highest one. And he will intend to make alterations in times and laws.

09:46

Now, that one I got to study. That one I got to study. He's going to want to have a lot of laws changed. Now, that'll be interesting to get into.

09:54

But also, again, in Revelation 13 .7, it was also given to him to make war with the saints and overcome them.

10:01

So he's going to be against the Christians, against the conservative Christians. He's going to be an evil individual.

10:08

Now, so let's review this really fast. So which political party would be the party of the Antichrist? Pro -LGBTQ, pro -abortion, supports one world government, will force compliance with his policies, will use deception, and will make war with the

10:23

Christians. All right, so which one does that bring to mind for you?

10:30

But hey, look, let me tell you something. The scriptures tell us in something in Revelation 19 .20

10:39

and 14 .11. In 19 .20, and the beast was seized and with him the false prophet who performed signs in his presence by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast.

10:49

And those who worshipped his image, these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burned with brimstone.

10:57

And then Revelation 14 .11, and the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.

11:02

They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image and whoever receives the mark of his name.

11:10

So something to think about, I think there's a lot of liberals out there who are in alignment politically, morally with the

11:17

Antichrist. And I have no problem saying that they will probably accept the mark of the beast when he arrives and they will be gung -ho with him.

11:27

They'll offend the Christians, persecute them, and this has already happened. That's another video to talk about.

11:33

So I just want to tell you, you need to trust in Jesus and what he did on the cross to escape the coming judgment because that's what the

11:39

Bible says. Those who join with the Antichrist and his movement and accept his mark and everything, they're going to be under eternal torment and judgment.

11:48

And the only way to do that is to receive Christ as your Savior, to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want to know more about what that means, go to carm .org

11:57

forward slash gospel, C -A -R -M dot O -R -G forward slash gospel.

12:02

It'll forward you to an article I've written on the issue of the gospel. It's in -depth, but it's not too in -depth.

12:09

It's just enough to give you to understand really what's going on. It's about a three, four -minute read, and it's worth eternity, isn't it?

12:18

So there you go. May the Lord bless you on that. Let's get on the air.

12:24

Oh, get the number out again. 877 -207 -2276.

12:31

I want you to give me a call. We have three open lines. Let's get to Ryan from Pennsylvania. Ryan, welcome. You're on the air.

12:38

Hey, Matt, I have a question for you about a Bible verse. And after that, I also need your permission to repeat a quote of yours.

12:46

I want to make sure that I'm doing it accurately. And, well, I don't want to misrepresent you.

12:53

So I think it's appropriate that I repeat a quote of yours and see whether or not it still represents your position.

13:02

Is that fair enough? Sure, sure. Okay. 1 John 2 .2.

13:08

And he has propitiation for our sins, but not only our sins, but for the sins of the whole world. How do you exegete that and cause it to apply only to the elect?

13:20

I don't cause it to. That's what it says. How? Well, propitiation.

13:27

In the Greek, it's halosmos. Propitiation is a sacrifice that removes wrath. It doesn't make it possible.

13:34

It's accomplished by the issue of what is done. It's not dependent upon someone else's action.

13:41

That's what propitiation means. So we'll have a break coming up. We'll get back from the break and I'll explain why it necessitates limited atonement.

13:50

Otherwise, I'll have universalism. We'll be right back, folks. After these messages, please stay tuned.

14:07

It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

14:13

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Ryan from Pennsylvania.

14:19

Ryan, are you still there? Yes, I am. Thanks for letting me wait. Sure. As I was saying, just to clarify, propitiation means that it's a sacrifice that actually removes the wrath.

14:33

It actually does. So, if it's done for every individual who ever lived, they have to go to heaven because the wrath is gone.

14:40

Okay. Alright, hang on. He has propitiation for our sins. Who is our sins there?

14:47

The Jews and anybody else who would be there, believing. Okay, and not only our sins.

14:55

Okay, hang on. And not only for ours, ours only. Who is that referring to? Well, the believers right there.

15:05

Okay, but also for the sins of the whole world. Who is that referring to? Not just the Jews. Because Jesus was sent in Matthew 15 -24.

15:14

He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And the Jews understood that the Messiah was only for Israel.

15:20

Only for the nation of Israel. Come on, Matt. You know that Matthew's purpose is different than John's. You know that they're different writers in different contexts.

15:27

The fact of the matter is, he has propitiation for our sins, which is believers. Not only our sins, which is believers, but for sins of the whole world, which is more than just believers.

15:38

And it's just that simple. So, it's actually, you have to understand the theological perspective that all of the scripture is together.

15:45

And did Jesus say he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, or did he not? Well, in Matthew, you know that the emphasis of Matthew is different than the emphasis of John.

15:56

You know this. And you know that if you take the... Hang on. You know very well.

16:02

If you take the perspective of Matthew, and impose it upon John, it's the eyes of Jesus.

16:08

You know this. No, it's not. You're making a mistake there. So, look. Did Jesus say in Matthew 15 -24,

16:16

I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Is that what he said? Sure.

16:22

Okay. The house of Israel is the nation of Israel. So, covenantally, he was only sent to Israel.

16:28

Israel broke the covenant. We, the Gentiles, are grafted in. Now, the word propitiation means the sacrifice that turns away wrath.

16:39

All right? It doesn't make it possible. It's accomplished. Okay? So, did he turn away the wrath of every individual who ever lived?

16:50

Yes. Okay. So, then, does anybody go to hell? Yes. So, how do you have the wrath of God turned away from you, while you also experience the wrath of God?

17:03

The writings of John tell us this also. They love darkness more than they love light. So, the wrath of God...

17:09

Because Christ died for them all. It doesn't make any difference. The wrath of God has been removed from them. So, wrath of God is due to their sin, their rebellion.

17:17

So, if you're going to say the wrath of God has been propitiated, that means it's removed from everybody, then you have to have the doctrine of universalism.

17:24

No, that's not the case at all. Because Christ died for all does not necessitate that all is saved.

17:30

That is the mistake that you are making, and it's a straw man argument. Okay, let's die for all. And you have abandoned...

17:36

What does it mean to die for all? What does that mean? Well, it depends upon the context.

17:42

In John 1 .29, it means all of creation. In John 3 .16 and 17, it means all of mankind.

17:48

And in 1 John 2 .2, it means all of mankind. So, he died for everybody's sin?

17:54

He bore everybody's sin? That's correct. What do you do with 1

17:59

Samuel 3 .14? Okay, have you read that one? Well, if you haven't noticed, 1

18:06

Samuel 3 .14 is in the Old Testament. It's a different context. It's a different writer, and it has a different meaning.

18:14

That is not the purpose of John and the gospel of John, nor in the letters of John. Well, wait a minute.

18:20

Is it not the case that when God speaks about something, that we should include it in our understanding of Scripture?

18:29

Because I can read what God says about atonement. And he makes an interesting statement.

18:36

Because God says, Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

18:46

Right. And atoning and sacrifice is different in the Old Testament than it is in the

18:51

New Testament. You know this. And the covenant is different in the New Testament. You know this.

18:57

It says forever. Is Jesus a sacrifice? Was his death on the cross a sacrifice?

19:04

Of course. We have that very clearly in John 1 .29. Okay, so when

19:09

God says the iniquities of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever, does the term forever include

19:17

Jesus' sacrifice? Well, if you, once again, 1 Samuel is a different context, and they have a different understanding of what atonement means.

19:27

And during that time, that was the slaying of the lambs and the whole covenantal process they had in the

19:34

Old Testament. That is not applicable in the New Testament. You know this. Good heavens. You don't take things out of context and impose it upon a foreign context.

19:43

You know this, Matt. God's talking. He says, I think God understands the context.

19:49

I think he understands atonement. He says, I've sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

19:59

Does that include Jesus' sacrifice? No, of course not, because atonement and sacrifice meant something different in the

20:06

Old Testament than it does today. And we have that abundantly clear in John 129.

20:12

You know this. You know that you are taking a foreign context and imposing it upon John when you go to Matthew.

20:19

You know this, that it's a different context, a different writer, and a different purpose. And you're imposing those things upon this verse and that is the definition of Jesus.

20:28

You know this. You sure are saying you know this a lot. So when God says that the iniquity of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever, it actually means they will be atoned for by sacrifice later on in Jesus.

20:43

Right? Once again, their understanding of atonement, their understanding of sacrifice, their understanding of offering is different than what it is in the

20:53

New Testament. You know this. It's God talking. It's God talking. And so God says this.

20:59

He says that their sins will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. Do you think God understood what was going on?

21:06

Well, it was also God talking in 1 John 2 -2 when it says not only our sins but for the sins of the entire world.

21:13

It was also God talking in John 1 -29 when it says He was the Lamb of God which comes to take away the sin of the world.

21:20

And so, you know, you're trying to take a foreign context from the

21:26

Old Testament and impose it upon something in the New Testament. Well, I don't know about that. I just know that God said that the sins of that house wouldn't be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

21:38

So what I believe is that the sins of the house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. That's just what

21:44

I believe. So I don't know. So you don't believe that apparently.

21:50

Well, when John says His propitiation for our sins and not only our sins but for the sins of the whole world, apparently you don't believe that.

21:58

Yes, I do. If you believe that, then you would believe that the sacrifice of Christ was more than just for believers.

22:04

So what does the word world mean there? The world means all of mankind.

22:13

How do you know that? Because it is very clear. It says not only ours, which is believers, but for the sins of the whole world, which is believers and then some, which is non -believers.

22:25

Just like John 1 .29 is completely consistent with it. Okay, so that means every individual to you.

22:31

Okay, so then propitiation means the sacrifice that removes wrath. So let me ask you, did

22:36

He remove the wrath of those who are judged to eternal damnation? Yes. We've got a break coming up.

22:44

We've got to follow up on this. This is great. And then we'll get to another verse. Hey, folks, if you want to hold, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

22:52

Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

23:10

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

23:16

All right, and welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Ryan. Are you still there? Yes, I am.

23:22

Thank you very much. I appreciate you letting me continue with this.

23:28

Before we go on, do you mind if I ask your permission to repeat a quote of yours and make sure that it is an accurate quote?

23:33

Sure, go ahead. A while back, you made the statement on your show, on this show, a quote, if there are any infants or any babies that die in infancy that are in hell, they're there because they deserve it.

23:49

Is that still an accurate understanding of your current position?

23:55

I would say that if there's any babies in hell, it's because it's the right thing for God to do to send them there.

24:03

Okay, so once again, this was your original quote. If there are babies that die in infancy that are in hell, they are there because they deserve it.

24:13

Is that an accurate quote? Yeah, I would say so, because they're made sinners in the fall of Adam.

24:18

We are all, by nature, children of wrath, so it would be something that belonged to them, as it belongs to all people who are born in Adam, which 1

24:27

Corinthians 15 -22 says, In Romans, excuse me, in Ephesians 2 -3, we are, by nature, children of wrath, and it's because of the righteous judgment of God that they would be there, if it occurs.

24:43

Okay. By the way, your buddy Charlie just entered something into the chat, and your buddy

24:49

Charlie is lying through his teeth right now. Okay, let's stop that. Let's stop that. I want to stick on topic.

24:54

Okay, let's not do that. Okay, all right. So, you're telling me that propitiation, which means a sacrifice that removes wrath, you mean then that he removed the wrath of those who are damned?

25:13

Well, okay, according to what you posted up there, there was three different ideas about what propitiation means.

25:19

You posted it up on your screen, and there are three different ways of describing it, okay? You're picking one of those and saying that's what it means here, when there are three options, and you're choosing the one that is going to be most adherent to your own theology that you have imposed.

25:37

No, that's not true. That's not true. I just looked at the definitions. It means turning away of anger by the offering of a gift.

25:45

That's in Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible, 1988. In the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, it says removal of wrath by the offering of a gift.

25:54

So, I said, oh, look at that. So, that's what propitiation means. That's how I learned it. Right. Okay? Yes. So, yes,

26:02

Christ turned back the wrath of all of mankind. Okay. How are people in hell if the wrath has been removed?

26:10

Well, because they love the darkness more than they love the light, just like it tells us in the first chapter of John's Gospel.

26:18

So, the wrath of God is removed from them, but it's also not removed from them.

26:23

Right? Well, that is why no man is without excuse, because if Christ did not sacrifice for all, then someone has an excuse and say, well, the reason

26:36

I'm here is not my fault. It's your fault because you didn't die for me. This removes any excuse from them being condemned.

26:42

And so, the simple biblical fact is that Christ created all things.

26:49

All things fell with Adam. Christ loved all things. Christ died for all things. Christ is present in all things, revealing

26:57

God to all things. Okay. So, sin is breaking the law of God, 1

27:02

John 3, 4. Sin is lawlessness. That's not all it is, Bill. It's not all it is, but it is that.

27:08

And Jesus says, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. In Matthew 6, 12, he said, forgive us our debts.

27:15

And in the parallel, Luke 11, 4, he said, forgive us our sin. Would you agree that Jesus equated sin with legal debt?

27:23

In that particular passage, yes. But in other passages, it's not just associated with debt. So, in Colossians 2, 13, the last part of it, it says, he made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions.

27:38

And in verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt, consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us, he's taking it out of the way, having nailed to the cross.

27:48

What is the certificate of debt that he canceled? Well, the certificate of debt is obviously in that particular passage of Colossians.

28:00

That's something that Paul uses that way. And you know this. And there are other passages that refer to the grace of God being more than just for the forgiveness of sins, such as Romans 5, 20, where sin has abounded, grace has abounded even more.

28:16

I just asked, what's the certificate of debt he canceled? What's the debt? Obviously of sin, obviously.

28:25

Okay. So, it says, having canceled it, having nailed it to the cross. So, when did he cancel the sin debt?

28:32

Obviously, when he was sacrificed, obviously. There you go. But that's not the only aspect of the sacrifice of Christ.

28:40

But that's not the only aspect of the sacrifice of Christ. Did he cancel it for everyone who ever lived? Yes. Oh, he did.

28:46

So, he canceled the sin debt for everyone who ever lived, and he removed the wrath of God from everyone who ever lived.

28:52

And yet, apparently, they still have sin and the wrath of God upon them because they go to judgment? How does that work?

28:58

Again, because they love the darkness more than the light, just exactly as John tells you.

29:05

And if you are consistent with what you're saying about the sacrifice of Christ, that it's only limited to the elect, okay, then you're going to have very serious problems like you've already shown.

29:22

You cannot exegete 1 John 2. You cannot exegete John 1, 29.

29:27

You cannot exegete John 3, 16. You cannot exegete 1 Peter 3, 9.

29:32

You cannot exegete a whole slew of passages that clearly show that the sacrifice of Christ is more than just for the elect.

29:40

Okay. So, you're wrong about that. So, did he take away the sin of every individual who ever lived, according to John 1, 29?

29:51

So, he took away their sin. How do they go to hell, then, if they took away their sin, if God did? Well, if you had studied the prologue of John, you'd know that take it away is different than propitiation.

30:03

You would know that it is different than atonement. And take it away is an idiom that comes from the

30:09

Aramaic, and it is not for the forgiveness of sins, but it is, again, it's actually expiation.

30:18

And expiation is something that the sacrifice of Christ is applied to all of creation.

30:24

So, when he says, Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world, notice that it is singular. It's referring to the fallenness of all things.

30:31

Hold on, you're just going on and on. I'm just asking simple questions. So, you're saying he took away the sin of every individual.

30:37

How does someone go to hell if their sin is taken away? I just told you, because they love the darkness more than they love the light.

30:44

But that's sin. That's sin. So, it's taken away. So, how do they go to hell for that if it's taken away? I just told you.

30:51

The sacrifice of Christ is there to make salvation available. What? Just a second.

30:58

So, it's available depending upon what we do. So, did Christ remove the sin dead at the cross or not? Yes. It is not dependent upon what we do, is it?

31:09

You're a humanist. Well, salvation is completely because of Christ. And you know this.

31:16

The light of Christ is in all of mankind. He was the true light, the light of every man that comes into the world.

31:22

We're talking about the issue of the sin dead. Okay, he canceled it at the cross. It's not canceled when you believe.

31:28

Did you know that? Well, if you haven't noticed, salvation begins when you believe.

31:35

What occurs when we believe biblically? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and he is risen from the dead, and thou shalt be saved.

31:43

You're saved when you believe. You're saved when God's righteous judgment. Good. What else occurs when we believe?

31:51

Okay, we're forgiven of sins. We're justified. Okay, we're justified.

31:57

Justified by part of it also. So, what happens is that the sin is canceled, the sin dead is canceled at Jesus' sacrifice.

32:05

It's not made effective by what you do. It's made effective by what God in flesh did.

32:11

It's not dependent on your ability, your wisdom. I didn't say it was dependent on my ability or my wisdom, because Christ's light is in all of mankind.

32:21

That's why we're able to do God's good. Your humanism is creeping in. You see, you've got to understand something.

32:27

Yes, it is, because humanism says that Christ's sacrifice becomes effective when you do something.

32:34

You have to believe, right? Well, here's the thing. That's what you're justified?

32:39

Well, I'm saying that the grace of Christ is more than sin, just as Romans 5 .20

32:46

tells us. And I'm saying that when you exegete Scripture, it says very clearly that Christ died for all of mankind, at least.

32:53

He does? Yes. Even though God said that Eli's house, the sins there would not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

33:04

Jesus' sacrifice was an atonement. It certainly was a sacrifice, and forever includes the time frame of Christ. So you just get out of that one.

33:12

What was the other verse you said in Peter that I can't exegete? What was it? 1

33:19

Peter, I think it's 2 .9, I think. Oh, 2 .9, let's see if I can exegete it.

33:25

Okay, let's see. Well, why don't you try exegeting? Rather than doing that, why don't you just do

33:31

John 1 .29, since we're in the writing of John? I just did. Why don't you just do it? I just did. How? Go for it.

33:37

John 1 .29 takes away the sins of the world. If you think the word world means every individual, then it means everybody's sins taken away.

33:46

They can't go to hell. You have the problem, not me. Very good. You did not exegete it. Well, you're the one who did not exegete it.

33:52

Look, we gotta go. You didn't exegete it. Call back tomorrow, okay? We gotta break. We got other people waiting, okay? Call back tomorrow.

33:58

All right, I'll call tomorrow. Let's continue. And shore up your argument. All right. Thanks for calling. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

34:05

Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

34:11

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

34:17

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. As much as I would have loved to have continued with that, but we do have callers waiting, so I want to get to them.

34:23

Let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air. Oh, hi,

34:29

Matt. Yeah, I'll be real quick. I was enjoying a fascinating exchange. My question has to do with doctrines such as,

34:40

I guess, eternal security. And I know I'll probably have to call back tomorrow to really get into it.

34:46

One thing that disturbed me is one of the gentleman's near -death experiences that he had.

34:52

He claimed that many doctrines were false. And he said, you know, the nonsense about once saved, always saved was from the pits of hell, which he claimed to have visited.

35:03

But the issue is when he's making those definitive statements, he offered no scripture or no discussion, you know, no opportunity for discussion to even go into it.

35:14

And I have to forward his name to you. This was a gentleman who claimed to have visited hell, had a near -death experience, and got out, and he was warning people.

35:24

But I just noticed that him and some certain other people— Was his name Corner? I want to say

35:31

Morrow. Well, Jesse Morrell. I know Jesse. No, no, it was

35:36

Dominick. It was a Dominick. I forward the exact name, so I'm not butchering it. But his account just didn't sit well with me because he didn't seem to offer any scripture.

35:48

And there was no discussion, and there was no attempt. I'm not trying to be overly critical, but to me that's just a red flag.

35:55

So I just kind of wanted to hear what you had to say on that. I'm pretty sorry to call back because it's a little late to show.

36:02

Yeah, it's not a problem. Here's what I do with people who say that. There are several things, but one of them

36:08

I say is go to, for example, John 10, 27, 28. My shepherd and my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

36:15

And I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish.

36:21

So Jesus equates eternal life with never perishing. Then go to John 3, 16, or you can reverse it.

36:28

The order doesn't matter. John 3, 16, God's love of the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

36:37

There's Jesus again equating eternal life with never perishing. So then you could do is go to John 6, 37, and there.

36:46

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I certainly will not cast out. I come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

36:54

For this is the will of him who sent me, that all he's given me I lose nothing, never perish.

37:00

But raise it up on the last day. This is the will of my Father that everyone who beholds the

37:05

Son and believes in him will have eternal life. And I'll raise him up on the last day. So there again,

37:11

Jesus says he will lose none, that means you can't perish, and you'll have eternal life. So Jesus himself equates eternal life with never perishing.

37:19

I'd say to them, so when someone has eternal life it's because they believe, John 6, 40. This is the will of my

37:25

Father that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him will have eternal life.

37:31

So if Jesus says by beholding and believing in Christ you have eternal life, and he says, and they will never perish, then are you saying they will perish?

37:40

Put them up against Christ. Okay, that's one thing you can do. Make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me.

37:47

Okay. And then the other thing you can do is, I love doing this when people tell me they can lose their salvation.

37:54

And I say, okay, thank you. I have on my computer right now, I say, I have a screen open,

38:00

I have a window open, I have my fingers on the keyboard right now. Could you please give me a list, one, two, three things, whatever it is, that you have to do in order to keep yourself right with God and make sure you don't lose your salvation.

38:14

What's the list? And they'll give me something. They say that they don't know.

38:20

Well, then you don't know if you have eternal life, because if you can lose it and you don't know what you have to do to keep it, then you could be lost, couldn't you?

38:27

Ooh, that's bad. But if there is a list, what is the list? Now, what they'll try and do is be as generic as possible, usually.

38:33

You've got to believe. Okay. Believe. Okay, gotcha. Believe. What else? Is that it?

38:39

Just believe? Because if you're just believing, I would say, hey, no problem. You have to believe. And if you don't believe, then you're going to go to hell.

38:47

I said, oh, let me ask you a question then. Do you take credit for your believing? That's what

38:53

I do. I ask them, do you take credit for your believing? And the reason I ask it is because of Philippians 129, which says this, for to you it has been granted for Christ's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer.

39:08

So God is the one who grants that you believe. So do you take credit for your own believing? Or do you give it the glory to God that he granted that you believe?

39:17

Which is it, Mr. Humanist? You see? If they say, you can't go to R -rated movies, you can't this, you have to read your

39:26

Bible four hours a day, whatever it is, whatever the list is, it doesn't make a difference. You say, are you doing that?

39:31

And you ask them, are you keeping yourself right with the infinitely holy God by your goodness?

39:37

And I've had people say yes. I say then, you need to pat yourself on the back.

39:44

Because you're awesome. That you are able to keep yourself right. You do it!

39:50

By your continued faithfulness, your continued abiding in grace, your continued works and stuff and goodness.

39:57

That is awesome. That is so awesome. Isn't that good? Praise God for you. Mm -hmm.

40:04

Okay? Okay. I'll definitely pick this back up. But yeah, that was great.

40:11

Thank you for what you do. I really appreciate it. Okay. All right, man. Call back.

40:16

Think about it and call back and stuff. Because I love talking about eternal security with people and stuff.

40:23

All right? Okay, brother. All right. Okay, Jermaine. All right.

40:30

Hey, let's get to Nelson from the People's Republic of California. Nelson, welcome.

40:36

You're on the air. Hey, Matt. God bless. Actually, this question actually lines up right along what you've been talking about the last two callers.

40:50

First and foremost, this question has arisen to me. And I kind of really don't know how to answer it.

40:56

But I just want to get your feedback. I know that there's election. We have been elected. Those who believe.

41:02

And it's all because of God. Now, when I go back to Judas Iscariot, because Christ chose him.

41:13

And he chose him to correct me if I'm wrong with this. And this is where I kind of get iffy of myself.

41:22

Did Jesus elect him to betray him? Election has different meanings in different contexts.

41:32

Yes. So election for salvation is a choosing for salvation, which is different than a choosing to be an apostle.

41:41

Because Judas was chosen to be an apostle. But yet, it says,

41:47

Jesus says in John 6, 64, there are some of you who do not believe. Now he's talking about Judas.

41:54

Because he says, for he knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe and who it was who betray him. So it was already known who he was.

42:06

And also, 1st John 2, 19 says, they went out from us because they were not really of us.

42:12

For if they had been of us, they would have remained with us. But they went out. So that should be shown. They're not really of us.

42:18

So if Judas had been of them for real, he would have stayed. But he didn't. Okay?

42:24

Mm -hmm. Okay. All right. Yeah, because I was just wondering because, like,

42:31

I guess my question with that follow -up question is, like, if God elects people to be saved, does

42:38

God choose people to be damned as well? That's called equal ultimacy.

42:44

And let's see. And there's a yes and a no to it.

42:50

And there's different thoughts about it. So I'm going to go through and discuss them.

42:56

So what I'm going to do is go to Romans. I'll do this first. I'm going to go to Proverbs 16, 4.

43:02

And it says in Proverbs 16, 4, it says, The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil.

43:11

So wait a minute. He made the wicked for the day of evil. Now, what does that mean? Well, we could talk about that. But that's something to consider.

43:18

Also, when we go to Romans chapter 9, we start at verse 22. What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

43:31

And he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared before him for glory.

43:39

So there's a lot of discussion about this. We don't have time to get into it all. But let me just run some stuff by you.

43:45

Is it the case that God specifically makes certain individuals for the purpose of destruction?

43:51

We could draw the conclusion from this text that what if God, willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

44:05

So it seems the implications would be, well, yes, he is enduring them. They're prepared for destruction. A common response, hold on.

44:15

Just trying to be fair about the text and what people say. A common response is that, well, he could, but he doesn't do it.

44:21

What if God was willing to do this, but it doesn't say he did? That's one of the common responses. Then you say, okay, and he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared before him for glory.

44:35

Well, did he make the people before him for glory? Well, if you said he could have, but he didn't, then what's happening is you're stripping away

44:44

God's sovereignty. And in the context of Romans 9, where God says that he hard and solemnly does things and I can go into that when

44:52

I have time. So that's one of the views that says, well, yes, he does do that. Another view is that, let's look at it this way.

45:02

There's a prison. Let's say there's 1 ,000 really bad people in it, these guys, 1 ,000.

45:09

Without doubt, each one of them is absolutely guilty of their crimes, very bad crimes.

45:14

Without a doubt. And a rich person, say you and me, we're suddenly really rich.

45:20

I hope you like that. We're now billionaires, you and me, so you're welcome. And so you and I are pretty cool guys, too.

45:26

In fact, there's another thing. We're doing really well, aren't we? And we decide to go to that prison and save some people and pay their debts and get them out.

45:37

And we could choose how many. We could choose. Do you want to do all of them or one? Or 500 or 100?

45:44

Well, whatever reasons we might have, let's say we do 100. And we take 100 of those who naturally belong judged and we let them, the 900, we let them go their natural way.

45:58

And we only choose 100. Well, why do we pick those 100? You and I went through and we met all of them.

46:05

We decide. You say, I'm going to do these 50. And I say, I'll do those 50. And well, what reason? I don't know.

46:10

It's because of this and that. So are we then choosing the others to not be saved?

46:18

In one sense, yes. But in another sense, no. We are choosing them not to be saved by not choosing them to be saved.

46:28

But on the other hand, because they were just letting them go their natural way. And yet we are actively choosing and preparing certain people to be set free.

46:39

There's where our action of redemption is upon them actively, but not upon the others actively.

46:47

So we would say the redemption is active, but the damnation in that sense is passive.

46:53

So you see how people discuss this? Okay? Okay.

46:59

I like that. Well, all right. I don't know if that helps or not, but that's just giving you views.

47:07

And I think there's truth in both of those views. I think there's truth in both. Okay. All right.

47:14

Well, yeah, that answers my question. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for the enlightenment. Praise God for that.

47:19

You're welcome, man. May God bless us. Amen, brother. By God's grace. All right.

47:25

So, folks, people who might object to these possibilities do so, in my opinion, because they follow the blonde -haired blue -eyed

47:31

Caucasian surfer dude dressed in a woman's nightgown asking permission for you in your wisdom and letting him in because he's a nice guy, wouldn't hurt a fly, and it's up to everybody's free will choice.

47:42

That's a theology that's prominent in most churches today, unfortunately. Hey, there you go.

47:47

We're out of time. May the Lord bless you by His grace. We're back on air tomorrow, and then I'll offend even more of you then.

47:54

Hope you have a great evening. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.