August 28, 2025 Show with Samuel Farag on “The Monks of Orthodoxy”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27, verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 28th day of August 2025.

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And today we have an ex -Roman Catholic, which happens to be me, interviewing an ex -Coptic

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Orthodox individual, and that would be Samuel Farag, my guest, who is returning to the program.

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And although I have had Samuel on the program before, and although I have discussed on this program previously the heresies of Eastern and Coptic Orthodoxy, I have never had a two -hour program specifically on one aspect of those religions.

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Today we are going to discuss the mysterious monks of Orthodoxy, the preservers, protectors, and purveyors of idolatry and heresy.

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And to do so is the aforementioned Samuel Farag, pastor of Bethel Baptist Church of Gorham, New York, and convert out of Oriental Coptic Orthodoxy, who by the grace, mercy, and love of our sovereign

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God was saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and drawn to embrace Reformed Baptist theology.

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And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Samuel Farag.

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Thank you so much. It's such a blessing to be back and to be able just to discuss God's Word together.

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Amen. And tell us something about Bethel Baptist Church of Gorham, New York.

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So we're located in Western New York in the Finger Lakes area, so it's a nice rural area there.

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And we're just a small church, but sharing the gospel truth, expository preaching.

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So you're going to come and hear the Word. We're going right now currently through the

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Gospel of Luke, which we've been in there now for the past few years. But we have a YouTube channel, so if anyone wants to keep up on if anyone's in the area, we would love to have you come and visit the church.

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And if there's a church that you like, we'd love to have you be part of the congregation. Now, how do they find that YouTube channel?

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So if you search Bethel Baptist Church of Gorham, New York. G -O -R -H -A -M.

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Correct. Yep. And then if you also search for Expositing the Word Ministries, that's my own ministries.

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I also post the same videos there, and I link the two different YouTube channels to each other. So either way, they can find it.

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And the website for Expositing the Word is ExpositingtheWord .org.

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Correct. And before we go into the heart of our conversation about the mysterious monks of Orthodoxy, please tell us about this project you are working on, a new project involving

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Orthodoxy. Yes. So I'm partnering up with American Gospel TV, working with Brandon Kimberg, who is the director of the

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American Gospel Documentaries. So releasing a 10 -episode teaching series, Eastern Orthodoxy Through the

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Lens of Scripture. The first episode is out there. It's for free. And there's also a little introduction to this.

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There's a little bit about myself. Then there's going to be nine episodes that are still to be released. We're aiming for about every two weeks or so.

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But of course, it's just when the editing will finish on those. They're all recorded already, and it'll just go in -depth about what does

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Eastern Orthodoxy teach and how does that compare to Scripture. And what we find is there's a lot of conflict with what they're teaching versus what

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Scripture says. Each episode is about 40 to 45 minutes, so we go pretty in -depth to show what does

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Eastern Orthodoxy teach, and also presenting the actual documents and teachings that the

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Eastern Orthodox Church themselves teach. So we're showing what they teach in their own words and then comparing it to the

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Word of God. And another project that will be coming about, Lord willing, in the future is compiling those manuscripts and turning it into a book.

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So I'm already in talks with a publisher who may potentially be putting that book out there.

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So there's been talks to take that and put it into a book form, too. Do you have a website for American Gospel?

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Yeah, it is. I believe it's watchagtv .com, I think.

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Let me double -check. And I have another one, americangospelfilm .com. Yeah. But the other one that you mentioned sounds—

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Oh, it's watchagtv .com. Yes.

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Great. Well, if anybody has family, friends, or loved ones who are

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Eastern Orthodox or Coptic Orthodox, please contact them right now by phone, text, email, however you get ahold of your friends and loved ones, and tell them to listen to this program.

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It's very important, especially for them. The website, of course, is ironsharpensironradio .com,

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and they can click on live stream it, and they'll be able to join us here on the air.

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But tell us something about the monasteries and monks of Orthodoxy.

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As I said, I've never spent two hours specifically on this one area of Orthodoxy.

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But tell us about the history of the monasteries. Were there ever any theologically sound monasteries?

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And perhaps tell us how they developed into a more heretical group of false

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Christians. And the specific history of the

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Orthodox monasteries and monks that we're talking about. Absolutely. So it's an important part to start with a little bit of history on monasticism in general.

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So monasticism really originated in the third and fourth centuries in the regions like Egypt and Syria.

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So you see a lot of the desert fathers, they'll call them, who played a crucial role in this movement.

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Now, why did monasticism come about during that time? This was a response to what's called nominal

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Christianity. Those are people who call themselves Christian by name, but they're not actually true, born again, genuine believers.

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So this took place around the time when Constantine first legalized

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Christianity. And by legalizing Christianity, he didn't just legalize Christianity, he also made it a very popular religion.

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If you wanted to advance in your offices in the empire, it was very profitable to be a

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Christian. We saw Constantine building a lot of the large churches, the large basilicas. We saw an influx of people who became

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Christian, but for the wrong reasons. And then Emperor Theodosius, who's an emperor after Constantine, took it to another level.

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He actually made Christianity mandatory, where if you wanted to be part of the empire, you had to be a

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Christian, or you weren't going to be protected from the empire and so forth. So you had a lot of people now who really didn't want to become

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Christian at all, but because it was now mandatory, they became Christian. So now you have this influx of a lot of people who identify as Christian, but they aren't truly

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Christian. And you can even pinpoint here where a lot of false practices like icon veneration, the way that Mary was venerated and elevated to treating her basically like a goddess, all those things came about from nominal

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Christianity. So while this was happening, there were many people who were just completely turned off from what was happening in the popular

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Christian world. So you saw people say, OK, we're just going to go into the desert. We're going to go away from the world and try to get closer to God, to develop any spiritual purity by going into the deserts.

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So you had St. Anthony of Egypt, who is commonly referred to as one of the founding members of monasticism, and he inspired a lot of people to take that approach of going into the desert and living the solitary life.

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So what you see from the very beginning of monasticism, it started off with some very good intentions.

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It seemed very noble. It seemed like they were trying to get away from what they saw as people acting in an unbiblical way.

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But we have to understand that if you look at the history of the Pharisees themselves, they also started in very noble intentions.

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That was the rise of Hellenism coming about and many Jews adopting unbiblical ideas.

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So the Pharisees started off by saying, no, we need to stick to what Scripture says. Again, it started off with a noble idea.

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But what happened with the Pharisees is they started adding their own man -made traditions, and that evolved into something completely different from what was intended.

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And what you see with monasticism is the same thing. Good intentions, but what it developed over time was something completely shocking and very different from what

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Christianity is as it says in the Bible. Yeah, this happens every time people with so -called good intentions follow those intentions outside of what

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God clearly teaches and commands. One classic example is

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Uzzah in the Old Testament. When the Ark of the

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Covenant was being carried on an oxen cart, and the ox stumbled and the

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Ark of the Covenant was about to fall off of the cart, you would think it would be a completely logical and noble and acceptable thing to put your hand out to stop the

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Ark from falling off the cart. And Uzzah did that, and the Lord struck him dead for it because you weren't supposed to touch the

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Ark, which is why they had those poles that they were to attach to the Ark to carry the

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Ark with the poles. Yeah, absolutely. Every time that we try to use our own human logic and reason and break

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God's commands with what we think is going to be something good, we get ourselves into a lot of trouble. So that formula we've seen throughout

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Scripture is not a good formula to take on. And this is what we see with what the monks do here.

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We see that they start obsessing with different views of this high view of virginity and chastity, and then living these lives that they think must be these physical lives where they're basically punishing and self -harming their bodies in this view that by doing this to their bodies, there's somehow a very holy practice.

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So it started evolving from what, again, was sort of as a good intention, but then really became something radically different from what

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Scripture ever commanded us to do. Yes, and you never see Jesus Christ other than for a period of time isolating himself and fasting and praying and so on.

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But he didn't live out the entirety of his life as a hermit isolated from the rest of mankind to keep himself away from the influence of sinners, and neither did his disciples behave that way, which is why most of the apostles were martyred.

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And even after that, in the first century, many Christians were tragically and gruesomely tortured and martyred because they knew that they were supposed to be salt and light in the world.

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They were supposed to be in the world, but not of the world. Exactly.

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And that's it right there. They were in the world, but not of the world. And that's what you miss out with Manestus, and they're actually trying to take themselves out of the world.

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And what that ends up doing is they have to then manufacture certain persecutions.

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Because now that they've taken themselves out of the world, now they have to manufacture these persecutions.

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And what you'll see, and we'll talk about later on, is they'll actually start abusing themselves in order to replicate certain things if they were in the world.

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And again, it's all worldly wisdom. And again, like you said, Christ and the apostles, they never conducted any of these acts.

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And why this is so vital to the discussion with Eastern Orthodoxy is the monks truly represent the actual leaders of the church.

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So as this practice grew, the people themselves started to look to the monks as being more influential.

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And there was a power struggle between those who were officially in the church and this new order of monks that came about.

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And then you actually saw the power shift to the monks. And now if you look at the structure of the

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Eastern Orthodox Church, the highest authority in the Eastern Orthodox Church when it comes to leadership is what's called the synod.

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And the synod is made up of the patriarch and a group of bishops. And the patriarch is considered a bishop, too, and is considered the first among equals when it comes to bishops.

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So it's not exactly like how Catholicism has the pope or the pope is actually an office that's higher.

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The patriarchy is just viewed on as the leader of the bishops, but considered a first amongst equals.

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But within Orthodoxy, that synod is made up of those bishops, are basically mostly monks.

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Some of them are priests who became celibate or take a vow of celibacy.

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But mostly the synod and bishop, most of the bishops are made up of monks.

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So you have them as basically the leaders of the church. So you look at the different churches within the

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Eastern Orthodox Church. The OCA, which is the Orthodox Church in America, has 14 bishops.

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The Church of Greece has 101 bishops. The Russian Orthodox Church, which is the largest one, has about 382 bishops, give or take one or two.

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They are the actual leaders of the church. They're the ones who can put together official documents.

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And those documents then are treated as if they're infallible, because within Eastern Orthodoxy is the doctrine that when the church speaks in an official capacity, so not just when a single bishop speaks or a single priest speaks, they may just be sharing their opinion or whatever, but when they actually speak as an actual church, like they put together a document and they sign as the actual church, that's considered infallible because their doctrine is that the church cannot make a mistake at all.

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So this is why studying monasticism in Eastern Orthodoxy is so important, because they're the ones who are the head of the church.

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And this would be where Eastern Orthodoxy, well, one of the many areas where they are separate from Rome is because from what

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I understand, Rome makes no such claim about monasteries and monks and priests and bishops.

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They believe only the papal office is infallible when it declares something as dogma, declares something ex cathedra, and apparently not even a pope is always infallible according to them.

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Of course, we believe that the pope is very fallible all the time. But not every word that comes from the lips of a pope or everything he writes is considered infallible, which is the way that the

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Roman Catholic apologists of a more conservative bent have been able to excuse away

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Pope Francis, the late Pope Francis, for his leftism and Marxism and absolute heresy, even from a

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Roman Catholic standard. So they actually believe that these monks are declaring infallible teaching.

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The Eastern Orthodox, I mean. Yeah, when they gather together and they make a decision all together, then it would be considered infallible.

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And certain documents, like the Confession of Docetius, that document that came out in,

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I believe, 1672, that document was treated as absolutely binding.

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What was said in that confession is treated just like Scripture is treated. And the reason is that they believe that as the church speaks, it's the same way as if the

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Holy Spirit inspired the text of Scripture. So, yeah, for Catholics, you have the pope as the highest authority, the magisterium.

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For Eastern Orthodoxy, it would be the synod and when they speak in official capacity. So ecumenical councils, when there is a decision and there's an ecumenical council, those are considered infallible.

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When there's a confession that is released by the church officially, those are considered infallible.

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So they add so much to the Scripture. Now, I don't know if there's anything else from the historical point of view that you want to add as far as the monasteries and monks throughout the centuries.

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But if you have completed that area, I'm curious when there was a notable difference, not only between the monasteries of Rome and the

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Eastern Orthodox, but also the different monasteries within Orthodoxy. You have already been on the program saying that there are very significant differences between Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy and the

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Coptic sect. So what would be, unless you have not finished yet with your history lesson here,

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I'm wondering what any significant differences would be in monasteries of Rome and those within Orthodoxy.

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And then, of course, tell us about any differences within Orthodoxy itself.

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Yeah, absolutely. There is a document, a book that's significant that we'll get to it.

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And in there, there's a lot of examples of the problematic teaching. But what I would say is, yeah, within Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy, they each view each other separately.

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So they don't even acknowledge each other as the true church. So within Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy, if you actually walked into, say, a

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Coptic Orthodox liturgy and you also walked into a Greek Orthodox liturgy, it's going to be very, very similar.

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For most people, they're not going to be able to even be able to tell the difference. The biggest difference for them is that the amount of councils that they accept, the

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Oriental Orthodox Church, they accept three councils, whereas the

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Eastern Orthodox only have seven ecumenical councils. So basically, it's like the difference of someone saying, well,

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I believe in 66 books of the Bible and another person says, I believe in 70 books of the Bible. And because there's that difference there and they have that built in that each of the churches believe that they can't make a mistake, they really can't go back and correct that or go back on that.

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So they really don't acknowledge each other. Although if you see the practices of monasticism within, say, the

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Coptic Orthodox Church or the Oriental Orthodox Church, the Coptic being within the Oriental Orthodox Church and the

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Eastern Orthodox Church, it's very much the same where it's this abuse of the body in order to reach some level of holiness.

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So the book that I think is important for us to look at, it's called

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The Ladder of Divine Ascent, and it's written by a person named St. John of the

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Ladder. The reason that this book is so important, especially within Eastern Orthodoxy, is that the book is, first of all, it's considered a timeless classic within Eastern Orthodoxy.

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And it is considered essential reading for all those in the monasteries and for lay people within Eastern Orthodoxy.

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So it is by far the most widely used handbook on the ascetic life in the

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Orthodox Church. What this book does is it contains 30 steps to guide one on this path of a spiritual life, or what they'll say, to spiritual perfection, in fact.

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And they describe this as a grace -filled writing. And what you see there is that this book is viewed on so highly that monasteries every year will actually read this book out loud during the lentil season.

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And then Eastern Orthodox lay people are encouraged to also read this book so that they can develop great wisdom and great depth from this book.

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So this book is really the best source to go to to see what is being taught, what's being taught within Eastern Orthodoxy in regards to monasticism.

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And I will say, when you read the book, it has some of the most shocking statements there.

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And I break down some of those key highlights of some of those shocking statements. Great. Why don't you begin doing that when we come back from our first commercial break?

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And I want to remind our listeners that after this live program is over,

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I'm sure your appetites will be wet to discover more about Samuel Farag and both

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Coptic and Eastern Orthodoxy. And if you go to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio website, ironsharpensironradio .com,

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and you type in Farag in the search engine,

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F as in Frank, A -R -A -G as in George, you will see the interview that Samuel conducted with me where he actually provides his testimony of salvation and coming to discover the doctrines of sovereign grace and becoming a

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Reformed Baptist. And I'm sure you will find that both fascinating and edifying.

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But if you have questions that you'd like to ask Samuel during today's live broadcast, submit them to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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And welcome back. If you just tuned us in, we have Samuel Farag on the program again today.

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And he is the pastor of Bethel Baptist Church in Gorham, New York, in upstate western

34:48

New York. He is a convert out from Coptic Orthodoxy, and he is a staunch believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace and a

35:04

Reformed Baptist. And we are specifically talking today about the mysterious monks of Orthodoxy.

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If you have a question, send it to ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

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ChrisArnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence. And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

35:27

Let's say you yourself are from Oriental or Eastern Orthodox background.

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You haven't left those religions yet. And you don't want to publicly identify yourself.

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That's completely acceptable to remain anonymous in such cases that you may have a loved one who's in one of these religions.

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And you have been praying for them to see the light and repent of their idolatry and heresy and come to Christ and find a true biblical church.

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We would understand that would be a reason to remain anonymous. But it's a general question. Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

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That's ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Well, Samuel, you are about to begin to tell us about some of these shocking statements that have come from the monasteries of Orthodoxy.

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The Ladder of Divine Ascent. And again, that is by St. John of the Ladder, or also known as John by Matthews.

36:31

And I would recommend that if somebody wants to follow along, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give the step that's mentioned.

36:37

There's 30 steps in total in this book, the step and the paragraph. And if basically we have time, the subjects that I'd like to cover is abuse that's happening within the monasteries, the inappropriate views of the leaders of the monasteries, self -harm, the low view and bad interpretation of Scripture and sinful actions that are just glorified.

36:59

And if you could repeat the name of the book again, because I actually accidentally had you on mute when you began talking.

37:06

No worries, no worries. So the book is called The Ladder of Divine Ascent, and it's by John of the

37:12

Ladder or John by Matthews. But The Ladder of Divine Ascent. So you can also find a book in PDF form online or you can get the book from Amazon.

37:22

But it's good to see here is these are the words that the Eastern Orthodox are saying in their own mouth.

37:30

And this is a book that's written, that's read every single year in the monasteries. It's encouraged for people to lay people to read this book.

37:38

This book is considered the definition of true holiness because this is representing the leaders of the church.

37:46

So that's why this book is an important work to view and really see what are they saying in their practice, in their own words.

37:54

So as I go through it, there's, again, 30 steps in the book. So I'm going to give the step and the paragraph so this way it's easy for people to follow if they want to see where these quotes are coming from.

38:04

So first, I want to look at the abuse that monks endure in the monastery. I want to look at step four and look at paragraph 110.

38:13

And this is what it says. And he endured so much from his elder that to many people it will perhaps seem incredible.

38:22

For the elder tormented him daily, not only with insults and indignations, but even with blows.

38:30

But his patience was not mere senseless endurance. And so seeing him daily in wretched plight, like the lowest slave,

38:38

I would ask him when I met him, What is the matter, brother? How are you today?

38:45

And he would at once show me a black eye or a scarred neck or head. But knowing that he was a worker,

38:52

I would say to him, Well done, endure, and it will be for your good.

38:57

Having done nine years with this pitiless elder, he departed to the Lord. So what you're seeing here being described is this monk who's writing this book is seeing this other monk being abused.

39:10

And once he's aware of the abuse, instead of stopping the abuse, it's just telling him just keep on enduring.

39:16

And this monk, this elder monk, is actually beating this other monk. He's insulting him, but he's also physically beating him, leaving him with black eyes, scarred neck, scars on his head.

39:27

And if you say, OK, well, maybe this is just a single instance of this. Well, all you have to do is continue reading in this book and you'll see that this is actually not only is this a single instance, this is a common practice that you see within the monasteries.

39:41

And when advice is given to those who are deciding to seek monasticism, they're actually told to seek monasteries that will abuse you the most so you can reach a higher level of holiness.

39:54

Now, this book, just to make it clear, this book is celebrating this. Exactly. This is celebrating it.

40:02

And the author who is writing this is actually saying this is great because they're basically saying by the monks enduring this abuse, it's like they're enduring persecution.

40:11

And like we were saying before, when you take yourself out of the world and Christ talks about how much we have to endure persecution and now they've removed themselves from the world with their own human logic.

40:21

Well, now they're trying to manufacture persecution. So now you have certain monks abusing other monks and they're tolerating it and they're encouraging it and glorifying it in order to say, look, we're enduring persecution.

40:35

So, yeah, you see a lot of human wisdom here. And yes, the book is actually glorifying this. This is why it's absolutely shocking.

40:43

And now in paragraph 8, verse 25, this is what it says. Advice on selecting a monastery.

40:49

It says he should especially choose the most assertive. Then he will be spiritually stretched and beaten by the insults, flights and surging rebuffs of the brethren, and perhaps even sometimes physically thrashed and trampled on and kicked.

41:08

And so he may wash out the filth, which is still in the perspective part of his soul.

41:14

So they're basically encouraging people to select the monastery of the harshest reputation so that they can be insulted and trampled on and kicked on.

41:25

This is absolute abuse. And this mentality resembles nothing of what

41:33

Christ has shown us as how we're supposed to act. And again, be mindful that we're talking about the leaders of this church.

41:40

This is the mentality that they have. These are the leaders who are making decisions and speaking in an official capacity in this church.

41:48

Truly, these actions come straight from the pit of hell. It certainly sounds like it.

41:57

Well, move on with some of these others. Yes. Now another one is the inappropriate views of their leaders and how they in general view leadership in the

42:06

Eastern Orthodox Church. So I would recommend people to go look at step four and look at paragraph 121.

42:13

And this is what it says. And again, this is shocking. It is better to sin against God than against our

42:20

Father. Our Father here meaning like the head monk in the monastery. For when we anger God, our director can reconcile us.

42:26

But when he is incest against us, there is no one to propitiate him for us.

42:33

But it seems to me that both cases amount to the same thing. So this person is basically saying that it's better to just sin against God than versus to sin against your leader.

42:44

Again, where did this mentality come from? But it gets even worse. If we look down and step 26, paragraph 11.

42:53

I'm just going to look at the highlighted text in there, but you can feel free to read the whole step. It says that this is the advice that they're given.

42:59

Accept their advice. This is their leaders from just as if it's the mouth of God, even if their advice be contrary to your own view.

43:08

And even if those consulted are not very spiritual. So they're basically told when you are given advice from somebody who is superior in a monastery, don't question it.

43:21

Accept it. Even if the person is not spiritual, just obey it and treat it as if it comes from the word of God.

43:28

Again, this has nothing to do with what Christ has taught us to do.

43:33

This is a very inappropriate view of leadership. And if this is your leaders, now you're going to be sharing that same type of ideology onto the congregation.

43:43

And that's why you have so many Eastern Orthodox apologists and Eastern Orthodox lay people who appeal to their leaders and basically just follow whatever they're saying, even if they're clearly contradicting what

43:55

Scripture says. Yeah, this is chilling. It actually really opens the door for the sexual deviancy of sadomasochism into so -called

44:15

Christianity. Oh, yeah. And here you can abuse people and nobody's going to lift up a finger and help somebody being abused.

44:25

So if somebody wants to abuse people, basically being an Eastern Orthodox monk gives you access to do these things and claim that you're doing it in the name of God.

44:34

This is completely evil. Yes. Now, before you go on to the next disturbing thing from this book from which you were quoting, where can we trace this evil practice of self -torture?

45:01

And, of course, it's not only self -torture. There are torturers involved here. There are both the sadists and the masochists, the people who are actually torturing others and those that are receiving the torture.

45:18

How can we trace this historically as something that was perceived as bringing someone closer to God?

45:26

The only thing that I can even think of is the practice of fasting showing that depriving the body of nourishment for a period of time and that the suffering that goes with that can be of benefit.

45:58

Perhaps you could agree or disagree with what I'm about to say, but I have heard from very sound, wise, biblical sources and people that although there are examples of fasting in the

46:17

Scripture, there is no command for us to fast. I would agree with you.

46:23

When I've preached and we've come across passages, there is no command that we're supposed to say, for example, fast at certain times.

46:30

Fasting can be helpful and it can definitely be something that can be beneficial for us, but to make it mandatory and to treat it in the way that Catholics and Orthodox treat it, both in the

46:44

Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox, is completely off -base of what Scripture says. If we're talking about the origins, where did these practices come from?

46:55

We see that it was a practice through paganism. We have to understand that these are actual pagan practices, which again fits in line with what's happening with Constantine and Emperor Theodosius.

47:05

When you have nominal Christians entering the church, and yes, there was the monastic movement to try to respond to that, but again, they responded in a worldly way.

47:13

Eventually, the visible church, in a lot of ways, there was a lot of corruption in there, and there was a lot of people there for all the wrong reasons, but they were taking their pagan practices and applying it then.

47:26

They were basically Christianizing those pagan practices. Paul, even in his letters, addresses pagan practices just like this—those who would practice asceticism to try to show forth holiness.

47:40

I'd like us to look in the Word of God, Colossians 2, verses 16 -23, and take a look at what it says here.

47:49

Paul is speaking to the people of his time, but it's very relevant for our discussion right now with the practices that the

47:55

Eastern Orthodox Church are doing with their monasticism. Here, Paul says this.

48:15

Pay attention to this. Let no one disqualify you insisting on asceticism and the worship of angels.

48:22

So, the insistence of asceticism—if you want to even be a leader within the Eastern Orthodox Church, you have to practice these ascetic practices that we started talking about, and we'll see some other really horrific practices.

48:34

But no, he says, let no one disqualify you insisting on these ascetic practices and the worship of angels and going on in detail about visions puffed up without reason by the sensuous mind and not holding fast to the head from whom the whole body nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments grows with a growth that is from God.

48:54

If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if we were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations, do not handle, do not taste, do not touch, referring to the things that all perish as they are used according to human precepts and teachings?

49:13

And again, look what Paul's saying, these are according to human precepts and teachings, not according to God.

49:19

And then look what he says here, these having indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self -made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

49:38

What Paul is saying here is powerful. And this is a rebuke to all of Eastern Orthodoxy.

49:46

They may have this appearance of holiness. So many people in the Eastern Orthodox Church, look at the monks, look at all their holy actions are doing.

49:53

Look how humble they are. No, they have an appearance of holiness. This is self -made religion.

50:00

This is promoting asceticism, promoting severity to the body. But look what Paul says, it has no value, not even a little.

50:08

It has no value in stopping the indulgences of the flesh. So the word of God speaks very powerfully to this.

50:17

And it was speaking to those who were practicing those things in paganism. But then that paganism, those pagan practices started coming into what was considered the visible

50:26

Christian church. And that's what we see with monasticism. And we see it's just as problematic as it was in Paul's day.

50:33

We do have a question. And if you can answer it in less than four minutes, we may have to break the answer up into two parts because we're about to go into a midway break.

50:49

But we have a question from the Gold Coast of Queensland, Australia, from Jack.

50:59

And his email is rather lengthy, but let's see what we can get out of his question.

51:11

Hi, Brother Chris and Brother Samuel. I have a new friend who is Greek Orthodox, in which he says that Christianity is the same as mine.

51:24

Hold on a second. I think I've got to enlarge this. All righty.

51:31

I'm sorry about this, Jack. Hold on. I'm trying to enlarge your question here, the font.

51:39

I have a new friend who is Greek Orthodox, in which he says that his Christianity is the same as mine.

51:47

Is this correct? Do you believe Greek Orthodox people are saved? And or what are the differences between them and us as Bible -believing grace alone through faith alone and Jesus Christ alone born again

52:01

Christians? Let me first say to Jack that we have a more detailed answer in the first interview

52:11

I conducted with Samuel Farag. So once again, after this live show is over, go to ironsharpensironradio .com

52:18

and type in Farag, F -A -R -A -G, in the search engine, and that will come up.

52:25

Then he says, this friend may only be new to the faith and may have only been going to a

52:35

Greek Orthodox church for 6 to 12 months, in which I know literally nothing about the

52:41

Greek Orthodox Church. But my other friend and I have very recently embraced this

52:47

Greek Orthodox guy as a brother in Christ, although we are Baptists and we are clueless what

52:55

Greek Orthodox churches actually teach. So can you help me with letting me know your thoughts, please?

53:02

Thank you for your amazing radio program, Brother Chris. Okay, well, why don't you give a very abbreviated view?

53:11

In fact, I'm not even going to do that. I'm going to have you do that after we come back from the break because I don't want to cut you off in mid -sentence.

53:21

Okay, and so we're going to our midway break. If anybody else wants to join Jack from Australia with a question of your own, our email address once again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

53:35

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

53:44

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

53:50

Don't go away. We'll be right back right after these messages. I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a

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That's L -Y -N -Brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

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Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Lord, if you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now. And last but not least, if you're not a member of a

01:12:14

Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, doctrinally sound, theologically solid church like Bethel Baptist Church in Gorham, New York, no matter where you live on the planet

01:12:25

Earth, I have helped many people in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience spanning the entire globe find churches that are biblically faithful and sometimes have been able to help listeners in my audience find biblically faithful churches that are just minutes from where they live.

01:12:43

And that may be you too, so please, no matter where you live on the planet Earth, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful church home and you don't know where to find one, send me an email to chrisorenson at gmail dot com and put

01:12:55

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to former

01:13:03

Coptic Orthodox Convert to Biblical Christianity and Reformed Baptist Theology, Samuel Farag, pastor of Bethel Baptist Church in Gorham, New York.

01:13:18

And that email address is chrisorenson at gmail dot com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

01:13:25

Samuel, if you could give a summary, since you've already done an entire program on why

01:13:35

Coptic and Eastern Orthodoxy are false religions, have a false gospel, and are not to be viewed as biblically

01:13:43

Christian denominations, tell us at least a summary of why our listener in Australia, Jack, should not be viewing them that way, and they should not, he and his

01:13:59

Christian friends should not be unnecessarily giving comfort to an

01:14:08

Eastern Orthodox friend who is making erroneous statements that that religion is the same as Biblical Christianity.

01:14:20

Yeah, and that's a great question that's asked, because the reality is in Eastern Orthodoxy, they teach a completely, completely different gospel than what we teach based on what the

01:14:33

Scripture says. And it's not only people who believe in the Scriptures and understand what

01:14:38

Scriptures say and see what Eastern Orthodoxy teaches, but we're not the only ones who say that. Even those on the Eastern Orthodox side.

01:14:44

So with that first video that was released through American Gospel, we talk about what's the true

01:14:50

Biblical gospel and what does Eastern Orthodoxy teach, and they actually admit, yes, we teach something different than what you teach.

01:14:56

So even the leaders in the Eastern Orthodox Church who responded to that video have said, we teach something different.

01:15:03

So they're admitting that there's a difference. So here's the problem. When we look at what Scripture says, we can't add to the gospel message.

01:15:11

And that's what we see with Eastern Orthodoxy. So all we have to do is look at Paul's writing in Galatians 1, verse 8 -9.

01:15:17

He says, But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one preached to you, let him be accursed.

01:15:24

As we have said before, so now again, I say, if anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to one you receive, let him be accursed.

01:15:33

Now, just one example, there's many examples, but just one example of this is their doctrine of icons.

01:15:39

Icon veneration is not a doctrine or a practice that's optional.

01:15:46

It is a mandatory practice. In fact, in 2 Nicaea, in their 7th Ecumenical Council, which they see as infallible, which they see as just as authoritative of Scripture, they say, and this is just a sampling,

01:15:58

Anathema to those who apply the words of Scripture which were spoken against idols to the venerable images.

01:16:05

Anathema to those who do not salute the holy and venerable images. Anathema to those who say that Christians have recourse to the images and to God, and so forth and so forth.

01:16:14

So basically, if we're not participating in the practice of icon veneration within the eyes of Eastern Orthodoxy, we are cursed by God to hell unless we repent and join the

01:16:26

Eastern Orthodox Church. So they are absolutely promoting a different gospel. And the person who, their friend who's only been in a church for some time, a lot of times those in the

01:16:36

Eastern Orthodox Church, they're either not up front or they're ignorant themselves. But this is official teaching by the

01:16:43

Church, and it is a gospel completely different from what we show as what

01:16:48

Scripture says. Yes, the Apostle Paul was so abhorred by the heresies of the

01:17:00

Judaizers who, from everything we know, agreed with the

01:17:07

Apostle Paul on many, many things, but they insisted that Gentile believers get circumcised for salvation.

01:17:18

That's the only thing that we know of that the Judaizers were teaching, and that one thing led the

01:17:28

Apostle Paul to say that they are accursed and that they have a gospel that is no gospel at all.

01:17:40

And the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Rome have many more than just one thing that they insist upon and do and believe for salvation.

01:17:54

Am I right? Exactly. And it couldn't be any more clear from what we see upon you.

01:18:00

The Judaizers agreed with everything Paul said, but they added to it, and by addition, they made the gospel message void.

01:18:08

And now, I would assume that you believe, as I do, that there are truly born -again people among Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox who, by God's grace, believe the true gospel, and they are wrongly remaining in these false churches for a number of reasons.

01:18:36

They could wrongly believe that these religions are teaching the true biblical gospel.

01:18:43

They could be remaining in those religions because they don't want their spouse to leave them, their parents to disown them, whatever the case may be.

01:18:55

So this individual may be truly born -again, but it is not an option to remain in a false church like that, is it?

01:19:05

Exactly. Yes, so there may be those who are in the Catholic, Oriental, or Eastern Orthodox who are truly born -again, but it usually stems from the fact that they are ignorant of what their church actually teaches.

01:19:16

They just don't know that that's what the church teaches, but they themselves believe the gospel. Or somehow, I've heard people say, we know the church teaches this, but we just think they're wrong in this area, but we believe in what the gospel says.

01:19:28

But what I see is that when the Holy Spirit is working in you, you are usually being led out of that false teaching once you believe that.

01:19:35

So yes, there are some people who are in there now who just don't know the truth, or they ignore the church.

01:19:40

But what you're going to see as they grow in their walk of sanctification, they're going to be led away from that church and eventually be led out of it.

01:19:47

I've even seen some people purposely stay so they can try to reform the church. But they immediately see that reforming the church is not going to be an option there, so they leave and go to a biblical

01:20:00

Bible -believing church. It's very important to be a part of a solid Bible -believing church because you're not going to really be fed there.

01:20:07

Yes, and what might be a good idea for Jack's friend to do, or for Jack to tell his friend, if you think that your religion is the same as what

01:20:25

I believe, why don't you ask your priest if Greek Orthodoxy is the same as the

01:20:33

Baptist faith? And unless he's some kind of modernist liberal

01:20:39

Greek Orthodox priest, he's definitely not going to say, oh yes, they're the same. Am I right?

01:20:46

Well, I'll say this because what's happened, this is a more modern thing. They have given this kind of answer where they'll say, well, we know where the church is, but we don't know where the church isn't.

01:20:57

Now, that is not the historical Eastern Orthodox answer. It was very clear you're anathema, you're not believing what we're saying, you're not part of the

01:21:04

Ark of the Covenant. I mean, the Ark of Salvation. They see them as the Ark of Salvation. But many priests now give this kind of politically correct answer and say, well, we know we're for sure the church, but we can't really say who else isn't the church.

01:21:17

But if you look at their doctrine of the Ark of Salvation, it actually says those who are not part of the

01:21:23

Ark of Salvation, which is the Eastern Orthodox Church itself, they're in the floodwaters experiencing God's wrath.

01:21:29

And if we know Scripture and we know who is experiencing God's wrath, nobody is saying who is actually experiencing

01:21:34

God's wrath. Just out of curiosity, since we're talking about monasteries and monks, has leftism and modernism entered even into the

01:21:51

Eastern Orthodox monasteries? I'm not exactly sure about the monasteries.

01:21:57

I know that within their seminaries it has, and some priests, they hold on to some very liberal views.

01:22:04

I've heard of some LGBT things. And here's the problem, too. There are actually canonized saints within the

01:22:12

Eastern Orthodox Church who are universalists. So you can appeal to an

01:22:18

Eastern Orthodox saint who was a universalist. So it is problematic, but the sales pitch that Eastern Orthodoxy will not succumb to liberal things that we're already seeing within Eastern Orthodoxy— liberalism coming in into different areas—I'm not exactly sure about the monasteries themselves, but I do know within the seminaries and within the churches we've seen that.

01:22:45

Well, I am going to be praying for you, Jack, and I'm asking my listeners now to please pray for Jack as you seek to demonstrate genuine

01:22:56

Christian love to your friend who thinks that he has the same gospel as you do.

01:23:04

And I hope that you remember that it is not loving to candy -coat the truth, just as you would not want a friend to eat or drink poison and refrain from warning him just because you don't want to hurt his feelings.

01:23:24

You should warn this person that they must repent and depart from Eastern Orthodoxy.

01:23:35

And maybe you could give us an update on that after you have your next conversation with this individual.

01:23:42

Thanks a lot, Jack. Continue to spread the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio on the

01:23:48

Gold Coast of Queensland, Australia, and beyond. And by the way, Jack, thank you for starting your day by listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, because I knew there was a huge time difference, and I looked it up, and I know that this program in Queensland, Australia, began at 6 a .m.

01:24:10

So, thanks a lot for starting your day listening to this very important conversation.

01:24:18

Oh, yeah, and by the way, I think that Samuel would agree with me that this is a valuable source of information.

01:24:28

My friend Jason Wallace of Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna, Utah is also a documentarian, and he's done a lot of thorough research into Eastern Orthodoxy and has created some very valuable videos on this subject.

01:24:48

And if you go to orthodox .video orthodox .video orthodox .video you can watch these fascinating exposés of this very false and theologically dangerous religion.

01:25:05

We have Casey in Kannapolis, North Carolina, and Casey just gives a statement rather than a question, and I want to ask you if you agree with Casey.

01:25:23

Casey says you must get this book for your research, and the title of the book is

01:25:31

Original Sin for the Orthodox Church by Michael Witkoff. Have you ever heard of it, and do you also recommend that?

01:25:39

I have not heard of that one. I'd have to look into that one. Okay, I will forward you the link that Casey in Kannapolis, North Carolina, has sent to me.

01:25:51

Well, if you want to pick up where you left off about these startling things in the book that you have been citing.

01:26:05

Absolutely. So I think the next area we should look at is the self -harm that is practiced.

01:26:11

So if you look at step five in paragraph five, it's talking about in order to pray, they want to be staying up for all types of hours.

01:26:22

So what are the practices that they do in order to keep their bodies awake so they can continue praying? It says they drove away sleep with dishonors and insults.

01:26:30

So they were basically like screaming insults at themselves. In paragraph seven, it says they stood in prayer with their hands tied behind their backs like criminals.

01:26:40

So they actually tied their hands behind their backs. And then the most shocking part in paragraph five, striking the earth with their foreheads.

01:26:48

So in order to stay up and so they can pray longer, they would keep striking their foreheads to the ground.

01:26:55

Now, this is very disturbing behavior, and what I just want to compare that to is to what does

01:27:00

Christ say when it comes to prayer? You look at Matthew 6 verse 5 through 6. This is what he says. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners that they may see and may be seen by others.

01:27:15

Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go inside your room and shut the door and pray to your

01:27:22

Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. There's no way that we can pull from this text any advice that we're supposed to be tying ourselves up and insulting ourselves and banging our heads on the ground in order to keep ourselves up for prayer.

01:27:39

This is not the practice that Christ himself did. This is not the practice that the apostles did. This is not a practice that we're ever encouraged to do.

01:27:47

This is very contrary to what the Word of God says. Now, is this another thing that would separate

01:27:54

Eastern Orthodoxy from Rome? I know that Rome in their history has done these kinds of things, because Martin Luther himself, when he was an

01:28:07

Augustinian monk, was torturing himself physically before his born -again experience.

01:28:14

But I don't know if that is still going on amongst Roman Catholic monks, at least typically.

01:28:22

I know that anything could be going on. I mean, you have rampant homosexuality going on within the rectories of Roman Catholic congregations, so who knows what else is going on.

01:28:38

In fact, I had a Roman Catholic apologist who debated

01:28:45

James White years ago who told me he was staying at the rectory of a local

01:28:53

Long Island Catholic church, and he was staying in the room of a priest who had recently died, and he started snooping around in the room, opened up a drawer, and found a video in there, put the video in the

01:29:14

TV set, in the VCR, and it was gay porn. And he told the bishop that—not the bishop, but the monsignor of that church about it, and he just quickly took the video and apologized in a fashion that revealed he kind of knew what was going on.

01:29:41

Anyway, that's besides the point. What do you have to say? Yeah, from what

01:29:48

I've heard, and again, I'm not the biggest expert in this area for Catholicism, but I have seen different people harm themselves.

01:29:56

I believe they were trying to replicate the passions in the crucifixion, and again, I don't know exactly if it's the main

01:30:03

Catholic branch. I know there's some offshoots, too, but I saw them mutilating their bodies. Monks and priests, you mean?

01:30:12

It was— I believe they were Catholic, but I can't say for sure if they were monks or priests. So I know in their history they have.

01:30:19

I don't know if they continue to do so. But this is commonplace in Eastern Orthodox monasteries today, though.

01:30:26

And this text, every year this text is being read, and this is being viewed on as something holy, to the point where when

01:30:34

I bring up this objection to people, those in the Eastern Orthodox Church, they'll say, I wish

01:30:41

I could get to the spiritual level where I would be okay with that. So they're just viewing it as this is just a higher plane that they have to reach in order to understand the wisdom in this abuse.

01:30:52

But no, they definitely glorify this, and within the Coptic Orthodox Church that I grew up in, when we would hear the stories of the monks, you would hear about these stories all the time.

01:31:04

Monks that would tie their hair on ropes so as they're falling asleep, it would pull their hair back so they would wake up.

01:31:13

And many monks would continue to do these practices to this day. So no, this is part of monastic life.

01:31:18

We do have a question from Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia. Why are those converting to Eastern Orthodoxy enamored with Jay Dyer if you know who he is?

01:31:31

Thanks. Yeah, Jay Dyer is an Orthodox apologist who his style is very much like shock and awe.

01:31:41

He is very intelligent. He's very gifted, but he's very insulting. He puts on a show, and honestly, when you look at what

01:31:51

Eastern Orthodoxy teaches and even look at the abuse that you see here, if this is something that attracts you, then someone like Jay Dyer is going to sound amazing to you.

01:32:00

In fact, if you look at the Orthodox comments in many of the posts that I've shared or other people who have done videos or any types of posts against the

01:32:10

Eastern Orthodox Church, the comments are absolutely ... It's heartbreaking how cruel people can actually be.

01:32:19

In fact, on multiple occasions I've been threatened with violence. So, unfortunately people are attracted to Jay Dyer's style, and they try to replicate that and copycat that.

01:32:31

But I've talked to people who, praise the Lord, the Lord has saved them out of that. But one of the things he said is that while he was listening to Jay Dyer, he just was not a good person.

01:32:40

He said he was mean to his wife, he was mean to other people, and he just realized this is not what

01:32:45

Christ was teaching us. And praise the Lord, he saved them out of that. But yeah, Jay Dyer, I believe, has been a very negative effect on people with how you see them conducting themselves online.

01:32:57

Even someone like Gavin Ortlin, who is very humble in his approach, he deals with a lot of different people of different faiths,

01:33:06

Catholics, Muslims, agnostics, atheists, and Orthodox. He's said before, the

01:33:11

Orthodox community, by far, is the most aggressive online and the biggest online bullies that you see.

01:33:18

So it's unfortunate. I remember years ago, before he became an atheist,

01:33:25

Frankie Schaefer had a reputation for that. Francis Schaefer's son, who apostatized and became

01:33:34

Eastern Orthodox, and I had a friend who was researching

01:33:40

Eastern Orthodox. He was an evangelical pastor who would go to meetings of the

01:33:47

Eastern Orthodox, and he was, I believe, the only evangelical permitted to attend because they knew his research and they were impressed by his research, even though they disagreed with his conclusions.

01:34:02

But he said that Frankie Schaefer was extremely belligerent and nasty to him.

01:34:10

But he had further apostatized and become an atheist. So to go to the next shocking element of this

01:34:22

Orthodox monastery life. Yeah, so I'll continue with the self -harm section where they do things where they'll put their bodies out in the sun so they can be burnt from the sun.

01:34:33

They'll put their bodies out to be exposed to the cold. Obviously with the fasting, they'll try to malnourish their bodies.

01:34:41

And a shocking statement is found in step 5 in paragraph 19, and this is what it says. It says,

01:35:01

Their faces were pale and wasted. They were quite indistinguishable from corpses.

01:35:06

So that's how their bodies are looking. And then it says, And from their frequent beatings of the chest, they spat out blood.

01:35:18

So they beat their chest so much that they start spitting out blood. And then you see this again in step 7 in paragraph 65.

01:35:25

It says, And you saw them literally pouring out of their mouth the blood of a suffering and wounded heart.

01:35:35

So yes, they're beating their chest so much that they're spitting out blood. And this person who's writing this is so enamored by it.

01:35:45

And the part where it takes it goes like, this is quite evil as it is, but to take it to a step even further is what it says in step 5 in paragraph 25.

01:35:58

And this is what it says. And some prayed to be possessed by devils.

01:36:04

I want to repeat that again. You're hearing it right. And some prayed to become possessed by devils.

01:36:09

Others begged the Lord. Yes, they're actually praying to be possessed by demons.

01:36:14

This is completely anti -Christ. Again, mind you, this is being read in every monastery during the lentil season, the holiest season of the year.

01:36:26

And the congregants are encouraged to read this book. And this is to be just another part of self -torture.

01:36:35

Yes. To be possessed by the demons. It goes on there and they're asking for other things. But yes, in order to torture their bodies even further, they're asking, they're praying to be possessed by demons.

01:36:47

Wow. That is a first for me hearing something like that. And that's why it's so important that we talk about this now.

01:36:57

And I appreciate you for talking about this in the program here. Many people who are getting into Eastern Orthodoxy, they don't talk about this up front.

01:37:05

Because if you mention this to a person who's interested in the Church, they're going to run away. The person that they were talking about who's only been in the

01:37:12

Church for months now, most likely they've not come across this teaching. But it's absolutely shocking and absolutely anti -Christ.

01:37:22

Yeah. That just reminded me, when you say that's not a commonly known thing amongst

01:37:29

Eastern Orthodox people, it reminds me of when

01:37:35

I was a new Christian and invited a young Mormon missionary into my living room, and he brought with him another

01:37:44

Mormon. I was responding to a commercial on TV, if you would like a book of Mormon hand -delivered to your home by a

01:37:54

Mormon elder, call this toll -free number. And I did, because I wanted to ambush the guy.

01:38:01

I mean, I was a caged -age Calvinist and all that. I'm not saying that my behavior was completely pure, but I think

01:38:09

I handled myself reasonably well. But one of the things, even though the young missionary agreed with everything

01:38:20

I said about Mormonism, when it came to Brigham Young's teaching, and remember, this is a prophet of Mormonism, not just some teacher that could be written off as having a wrong belief.

01:38:40

He was a prophet of Mormonism. He believed that Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb by a sexual union between God and Mary.

01:38:52

The baby Jesus was not conceived through the

01:38:58

Virgin by the Holy Spirit. It was actually a sexual act.

01:39:04

And this young Mormon adamantly denied that. And he packed up his stuff and he stormed out of my house, and I told him, please look it up.

01:39:16

Please look up Brigham Young's teaching on that. I called him up a couple of weeks later and he said he hadn't had time to look it up and abruptly cut me off and hung up.

01:39:30

But there are things that your average person in some of these religions they don't even realize that these are official teachings of their cult or their false religion.

01:39:45

Oh yeah, and you're mentioning about how people just don't want to deal with the reality of the truth, so praise the

01:39:52

Lord. My mom and dad are saved out of the Orthodox Church too.

01:39:58

Yeah, they now attend an Arabic -speaking evangelical church, so praise the Lord. But my dad has shared, there was a previous patriarch in the

01:40:06

Coptic Church, Pope Shenouda, who wrote this book against Protestants. Well, you can tell in the

01:40:12

Arabic, he actually changes the Bible translation to suit his own meaning. He completely changes the words.

01:40:19

And it's so obvious the way he changes the translation and what the Arabic Bible says, so he wanted to show it to a local priest.

01:40:28

The priest actually told him, no, I can't look at that, I'll lose my faith. What was his response?

01:40:34

And by the way, Jack in Queensland, Australia, I just was reminded to say, when you are developing friendships with people of other religions who claim they are

01:40:50

Christians just like you, that is the new approach of Mormonism.

01:40:56

They are doing something that they never in their history did until fairly recently, maybe a decade ago, it started.

01:41:06

James White would know more about that. Maybe even you, Samuel, I don't know how much you know about Mormonism.

01:41:13

Their headquarters are 45 minutes from us in Palmyra, and I've actually been up there to try to minister to some of the elders there, but you're right with their approach.

01:41:21

Their whole time they were trying to convince me, we believe in the same thing, we believe in the same thing. In fact, they'll even appeal to Eastern Orthodoxy's teaching on theosis, on how to show how their belief in the multiple gods is okay and everything.

01:41:35

Yeah, their whole big thing was, oh, we believe in the same thing, but that's when you get down to, okay, now define those terms.

01:41:41

And that's where we see, okay, there's clearly a difference here. Forty years ago, when I had my encounter with the

01:41:47

Mormons in my living room when I was a new Christian, they did not have that attitude. They were friendly and even asked me to pray in the beginning, which was odd since they believed

01:41:59

I was in a false church. But they made it clear that they were the only true religion, the only true

01:42:06

Christians. But today, when I have encountered—there's a lot of Mormons in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and I've encountered some of them in the street corners and in the library and so forth, and, oh, we're just Christians like you.

01:42:23

We're just a different denomination. So there is a thing called having the same vocabulary in a different dictionary.

01:42:34

Yes, exactly. So that's what your friend is likely the victim of.

01:42:41

He's either intentionally deceiving you, or he's just naive and ignorant about the fact that he has a different dictionary.

01:42:51

But if you want to move on to the next—actually, we have to go to our final break, and then you can continue when we come back from the final station break.

01:43:02

Again, if anybody has a question for Samuel Farag, our email address is chrisorensen at gmail .com.

01:43:10

Don't go away. We're going to be right back. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

01:43:28

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

01:43:36

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

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One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the

01:46:29

Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

01:46:35

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew

01:46:42

Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB.

01:46:48

And tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Go to nasbible .com.

01:46:56

That's nasbible .com to place your order. I'm Simon O'Mahony, Pastor of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

01:47:10

Originally from Cork, Ireland, the Lord in his sovereign providence has called me to shepherd this new and growing congregation here in Cumberland County.

01:47:19

At TRBC we joyfully uphold the Second London Baptist Confession, we embrace congregational church government, and we are committed to preaching the full counsel of God's Word for the edification of believers, the salvation of the lost, and the glory of our

01:47:34

Triune God. We are also devoted to living out the one another commands of Scripture, loving, encouraging, and serving each other as the body of Christ.

01:47:42

In our worship we sing psalms and the great hymns of the faith, and we gather around the Lord's table every

01:47:48

Sunday. We would love for you to visit and worship with us. You can find our details at trbccarlisle .org.

01:47:56

That's trbccarlisle .org. God willing, we'll see you soon.

01:48:44

Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired Word of God, inerrant in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation, and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

01:48:59

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.

01:49:16

Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear

01:49:24

God's image. If you live near Linbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the

01:49:29

Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit linbrookbaptist .org.

01:49:36

That's linbrookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.

01:49:48

It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast.

01:49:54

The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself. Welcome back, and I want to remind our listeners that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco &

01:50:10

Associates. If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the

01:50:17

United States, call my very dear longtime friend, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website 1 -800 -NOW -HURT -DOT -COM, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT -DOT -COM, and tell

01:50:34

Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, that you heard about his law firm, Buttafuoco & Associates, from Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:50:41

And a quick reminder, if you have not yet registered yet, if you're a man in ministry leadership, please register if you can make it to the next

01:50:51

Iron Trip and Zion Radio free biannual Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastor's Luncheon, and that features

01:50:58

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries on Thursday, September 18th, 11 a .m.

01:51:03

to 2 p .m., at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. I just got word from a couple of Christian publishers who always donate books to give away to the pastors at my luncheons, and Ligonier Ministries, the ministry of the late

01:51:23

R .C. Sproul, has outdone themselves with their generosity.

01:51:30

They are giving all of the pastors attending the luncheon a free copy of the 560 -page hardback by Sinclair Ferguson, Things Unseen, One Year of Reflections on the

01:51:46

Christian Life. Utterly amazing. And P &R Publishing, another faithful supporter of my luncheons, they are providing all the pastors with a copy of The Reformed Pastor and Modern Thought by Cornelius Van Till, and many other books will be given away to the pastors in attendance.

01:52:08

Send me an email if you want to register to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:52:14

Everything is always absolutely free at the Iron Trump and Zion Radio Free Pastors Luncheons. Well, we're now back,

01:52:20

Samuel, and if you could, move on to your next shocking discovery from this

01:52:28

Eastern Orthodox book from the Monasteries of Orthodoxy.

01:52:35

Yeah, I think a great point to highlight is just how badly they interpret

01:52:40

Scripture and handle Scripture, and we see this located in the foreword of Step 15.

01:52:46

So we see that the Eastern Orthodox Church, the monasteries, they really focus on chastity and virginity, and they hold it to such a high degree that they'll twist

01:52:59

Scripture to try to show it to be even greater, for example, than marriage or something. So here's what it says in the foreword of Step 15.

01:53:29

What? This is how they interpret

01:53:37

Scripture, and again, this is the leadership of the Church. That's why whenever we provide biblical interpretations of Scripture by following proper hermeneutics, they'll say, oh, but that's just you.

01:53:47

But the Church interprets it for us. That's their interpretation. They believe, first of all, that Adam sinned due to gluttony, which is not true.

01:53:54

He wanted to follow his wife in wanting to be like God. That's why he fell. And to say that if Adam that it was because of the fall that that's why they had a relationship as husband and wife, that they would have lived as just brother and sister if it wasn't for the fall, is absolutely evidence of biblical illiteracy.

01:54:17

We just have to look at the passages before the fall to see what God commands. Genesis 1 says,

01:54:23

Be fruitful and multiply. In Genesis 2, it says that Adam and Eve will become one flesh.

01:54:29

This is just an example, one example of what we see, even within this book, of how they interpret

01:54:37

Scripture is completely shocking and is not faithful at all. Now, speaking of be fruitful and multiply,

01:54:45

I know that there are clerics in Eastern Orthodoxy who are permitted to be married, but not all of them who are not permitted to be married.

01:54:55

So the priests in Eastern Orthodoxy are actually typically that they marry within Eastern Orthodoxy.

01:55:00

And even with Oriental Orthodoxy, priests typically marry. Although there are some priests who will choose to not be married or if they become a widow, they can't remarry once they lose their wife and they become a widower.

01:55:15

And that's why if they want to become a bishop in the future, there are some priests who can become bishops, but they can't be married.

01:55:24

But typically, a regular Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox priest would be married.

01:55:31

In fact, even if you look at Catholicism in the beginning, their priests were also marrying. The only reason that they stopped marrying is because their priests were getting into a lot of trouble with mistresses and they figured the best way to the course of action for that is to say that priests can no longer be married, which again, using human wisdom to try to solve a problem.

01:55:51

It's just we have to use Scripture if we're going to solve problems, not use our human punning to try to solve problems.

01:55:58

Yeah, they even admit that some of their earliest popes were married and they have to come to that conclusion because they know that Peter had a wife since his mother -in -law was mentioned.

01:56:09

Yeah, exactly. Well, why don't you conclude with what is most burdening in your heart that you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before our program is over?

01:56:22

What I want people to understand is how valuable and powerful the gospel is.

01:56:28

That this temptation to try to add to the gospel message or to fluff it up by adding all these things, that's not the way to go.

01:56:38

In Scripture, we have the power. That's where the actual power is. So I want the listeners who are hearing this to really love the gospel message and love the

01:56:48

Word of God. Be in your word. Read the Word of God so when you're hearing other people promoting false teachings, you're able to identify this as, wait a second, what you're saying is not right.

01:56:59

Be a Berean. That's what I constantly tell our congregation. I say, I'm your pastor. You don't just go ahead and listen to whatever

01:57:05

I say from the pulpit. You take what I say and you hold it to the canon of Scripture. You hold it to Scripture and you see, does this stack up to Scripture?

01:57:14

We have to go by what Scripture says and not feel this temptation to go out into all these things.

01:57:19

That's what's happening here. People are seeking an experience here. They want to have an ancient feeling.

01:57:27

They want to listen to these old hymns. They want to experience these things that they think are ancient but they are just appealing to the senses.

01:57:34

They're going away from what the Word of God says. So please, for those who are listening, stick to what the

01:57:39

Word of God says. Pastor Samuel, this has been utterly fascinating and educational and even shocking.

01:57:50

I look forward to your frequent visits, God willing, back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:57:58

If you could please, once again, share with our listeners how they find out more about you and your ministry and your videos and everything else that you have to offer.

01:58:09

If you go to exposingtheword .org, there you'll see all the different links, all the different social media pages that we have.

01:58:16

If you like the work that we're doing, if you go to exposingtheword .org slash give, where you click on the give button, we're actually missionaries with Village Mission, so if you want to support us in that way, that would be great.

01:58:27

If anyone has any questions, just reach out through the contact box and I'll do my best to get back to you as soon as possible any way that I can help in any way.

01:58:36

Well, we can't go off the air until we read a question from your wife, Mercy.

01:58:42

And she says, Thank you for your faithful ministry to share the truth of the gospel. My question for Sam is, how long did it take you to grow your epic beard?

01:58:52

It is very impressive. Oh, that's too funny.

01:58:58

Yeah, not a lot of time. It actually just grows overnight this way. Well, thank you again so much for being such a valuable guest.

01:59:07

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

01:59:13

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

01:59:20

Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions the next time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.