What does the Bible say about Christian fathers? - GotQuestions.org Podcast Episode 16

Fatherhood as Biblical Headship and Discipleship

Welcome to the Got Questions podcast. My name is Jeff. I'm an associate editor with Got Questions. I primarily work with our Bible Ref Commentary website. And on today's episode, I have with me Nelson.

You'll recognize him as sort of the face of Got Questions video series on YouTube. One of the gentlemen who works with us on that. He's also an associate pastor. And we have Kevin Stone. Kevin is the managing editor of Got Questions, and he is a pastor as well.

The exciting thing about having the three of us here today is we get the opportunity to talk about fatherhood. And with the three of us here, we all have different angles that we're seeing fatherhood.

From.

We have broad agreement on the biblical idea and our heart and our intention for it, but we all have a different perspective because of our life experiences and where we're coming at that from. So today we wanted to talk about some of those things, fatherhood, what the Bible says about it, what the importance is.

And the best place to start from that I really think is the idea of what the Bible has to say, what scripture tells us about being a father. So Kevin, if you would, what does the Bible actually say a father is supposed to be?

What's God's instructions for fatherhood?

Well, a father is the head of the home and he should be the one that is most responsible, takes that responsibility upon himself to be teaching his children, training them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

We read in Ephesians chapters 5 and 6 where God gives instructions to the whole family basically. He says, husbands, you should do this, wives, you should do this, children, you should do this. And he gets to the fathers, he says, here's something that you should not do.

And there's a difference there. And fathers do not provoke your children to wrath. Don't frustrate them. And I think inherent in that command is the idea that fathers have the responsibility to understand their children and know what buttons not to push and to not frustrate them but to raise them in a way that will be most conducive to their being receptive to the teaching of the Lord.

And I have Deuteronomy chapter 6 in front of me here as God speaks to Israel under the old covenant. He says that you shall teach these laws diligently to your children. You shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, when you rise up.

The passage goes on to talk about how we need to write the laws on the doorposts of our home and everything else. The idea is that every aspect of our lives is being informed by the Word of God. The principles of God's Word are interwoven into everything that we do as a family.

And again, fathers have the responsibility, the main responsibility to be making sure this happens in a home.

I think it's good that we see that God does in Scripture provide instructions for fathers and that those things are not presented as options. God doesn't say, I would suggest you do this, or it would be better if you did that.

He just says, this is what you should and this is what you should not do. They're commands. They come there in Scripture. And that brings us to the idea that there are also commands in there for children.

There's commands in there for mothers. And one of the things I think sometimes we lose track of is the idea that when fathers are either not present or they're not fulfilling the duties that they're supposed to do biblically, that that doesn't just put a burden on children, but that puts a burden on wives, on mothers, because they're not trying to hold up something that they were never supposed to have to carry by themselves.

Fatherhood, Proverbs, and a Child’s View of God

Now, Nelson, in your circumstance as an associate pastor, you also have communication with family and you get to see some of the good, some of the bad in circumstances that people experience. What's your perspective on the importance of fatherhood?

What kind of influence or impact does positive or negative fatherhood have in a family?

So one of the passages that always comes to mind when I think about fatherhood, when I think about my own role as a father, is Proverbs chapter 22, verse 6, train up a child in the way he should go. And when he grows old, he will not depart from it.

That's a proverb. It's just general teaching of what we ought to do, right? And it's our responsibility as fathers to train children. I mean, that's our goal. That's our role to do. We need to train them with right and wrong and that there's a God who exists.

I mean, that's our primary focus, that there is a God who is there, who loves them, who cares for them, who desires to be with them. And that's really our role, to teach them this path. And so you err when we miss one of those steps, right, wrong, and God, right?

We need to make sure that they understand those three things and that the scriptures are what guides us through. It's God's instruction to us to know how to carry out our roles and what we're supposed to be doing and what we're not supposed to be doing.

And Kevin, as you, as also a pastor, you're able to see that the way somebody perceives God is very much influenced by the way they perceive their father or fatherhood. Can you speak to some of your perspective on what you've seen in that way?

Yes. I mean, it's very often the case that somebody who has had an absent father or an abusive father has a really hard time understanding the concept of God as a heavenly father. And because God is God is the only perfect father and everyone else falls short.

And so, yes, we all have we all have things in our own lives that are not a good picture of God. But what somebody who has grown up without a father or with an abusive family relationship, they really do have to do a lot of work in the scriptures and a lot of times with counseling and really get to know God for who he is, how he has revealed himself in scripture and not base their idea of God on their own circumstances or maybe what they're seeing their father.

And there's it can cause some trouble sometimes.

Yeah, that's that is a difficult thing. It's a good word for us to remember that a lot of times when we speak to people who seem to be especially bitter or resistant or angry about faith or about scripture, sometimes it's really easy for us just to brush that off as somebody who's just being obstinate.

And there are a lot of circumstances where even if they don't have it in some theological sense, they are perceiving the idea of a father God through the lens of their experience with their father or lack of experience with their father.

And that's something we need to be careful about.

It's so important because how our experience with our fathers help dictate what we think about God and the father a lot of times. And so you're right. So if we had a hard experience with our own fathers, if he would scold us and yell at us at the drop of a dime for no good reason, or if he was never interested in what we were doing, sometimes as we think about God, we can also kind of project those things on him and think, well, God is disinterested in me.

He's not that concerned with the small things in my life where I can't ask him, you know, for this thing. I don't want to make him upset. And so they kind of picture this guy like I just need to make him happy and not angry.

And that's the wrong picture of God, the father.

Right. And that's that's also very challenging and convicting. When I think about that kind of thing, one of the things I'm convicted of is the reminder that biblically fathers are this puppet caricature metaphor for God.

You know, obviously we are not God, but part of what we are doing, what we are supposed to be doing is modeling the relationship that God is supposed to have. And when I fall and when I fail and when I make a mistake, I need to be ready to deal with that.

And especially in the lives of my children and my spouse, because I am influencing their perception, even if it's subconsciously their perception of a heavenly father.

Sure. If they trust you and they know you love them and they know that you have their best interests at heart, then they begin to understand, wow, my dad loves me this much. And he says that God's even more loving and more caring and even desires more for my good well-being.

Then God must be truly amazing. Right. You know, so it's just it's a way that we train them and show them the path.

And there's useful thought process behind that, not just for our own children, whether they're biological or foster children or adopted children, but also in the context of the church. Kevin, I've heard you say before that it's important in circumstances where there isn't a father present for the church to step in, in a sense.

The men of the church, I think, need to really step up and provide good, solid male role models for families that may be lacking a father for whatever reason. The church should be a resource for single mothers.

I like that you brought up that specific phrase, because there's a lot of times where it's easy culturally to look at the single mother, for example, and forget that that was never God's intention for the family.

And that's not just an issue of what the children are experiencing. That's a very hard road for the woman to go through. And I like the thought of men in a church taking responsibility to say it's not just about us helping a child who's in a circumstance, but this is a way of us helping to lift up a woman who's also a child of God and created in His image that we can support by helping to bring into the relationship something that might not otherwise be there.

Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Right.

Fatherhood in the Early Years: Wonder, Gratitude, and Foundation

Now, another thing that's interesting about fatherhood is the way it changes. And the more experience one has with fatherhood, the more you know how that alters. Another thing that's interesting about having us three in this conversation is that all three of us are in subtly different stages of fatherhood.

So to start off, I think it's interesting just to look at some of the things that we look at, that we focus on, that are different. So the circumstance that we're in right now, without getting overly specific, Nelson's children are in the...

5 and 7 years old.

5, 7.

My kids are 10 to 14.

And I have three children who have flown the nest. And I have one child still at home in high school.

Yeah.

So there's differences in the way that we do this. So kind of going through those in a way that makes sense. Nelson, what are some of the things that you, in the phase of life that you're at right now, that you see that are especially important, or that you're worried about, or that you feel stress and pressure about?

What's on your mind as a dad of kids in this, let's call it early elementary, kind of an age range?

I really feel like it's my responsibility to help them to be aware of the world. And what I mean by that is the beauty in it, the creation, the order, and how amazing things.

Are.

And I try to point them at these things. I mean, we might be taking a walk and we look at, you know, animals and trees and water. And I just, isn't this amazing? Isn't it cool how God made it this way?

It's awesome.

And I want to instill within them this foundation where God has taken credit for the beauty around them. And I want them to have that firm foundation within them. So when they're looking around, when they're doing different things, they're reminded, even when I'm playing with my toys or playing with this, and that God did this.

And I also try to remind them when they're very young as well, that God gave us what.

We have.

So that's why we pray together. That's why we pray before meals. I remind them, hey, not everyone gets a meal, guys. I don't know if you know this. Not everyone can sit down and have dinner and God let daddy have a job.

And so we can pay for dinner tonight. And so we thank God. And so we can be reminded that God gave us this meal. And so just this attitude of thankfulness, of watchfulness, and for them to just be aware that God is in the mix and that he's there.

Because I just want that foundation that God is truly present and is truly active in doing something right around them all the time.

Is there something in your particular experience with children at this age that you find that you are worried about? And I'm not talking about some sort of panic or over anxiety. But what, if anything, is something that you think, okay, with my kids at this specific age, this is a particular thing about the world or their lives or this culture that you find yourself thinking about more than you might in a different phase of fatherhood?

Well, for me, I think I have to look inward at myself first. And one of my worries is, am I doing this right? And I know I'm not. I know I'm not a perfect father. And I know I have areas in my life where I fail and I'm not getting it right.

And those are things that concern me a lot. And so what do I do? I go to Scripture and I go to friends, trusted advisors, those who have older children than myself and ask for advice. And so that's one of the big things in my own life that I'm really worried about.

Am I being the father that God intended for them? You know, because even if I'm the best father I can be, I still want to be better than that. I still want to grow. I still want to learn. And, you know, continue to be where God has intended.

And again, I always look at it as the father that God has intended for them and that they deserve. So that's one of the things, as I look at myself, as we look at the world, my kids are entering school now.

Kindergarten, my son's in kindergarten, my daughter's in first grade, and they're in a public school. And so I'm constantly concerned about what teachers are teaching them about the ways of the world and about creation.

And in our day, the teachers are already influencing them in sexuality and things like that. And that concerns me because I want to make sure, again, that they have a firm foundation in biblical truth and a correct worldview.

And so I need to be knowing what they're learning in school. And I need to also be able to talk on those subjects. So there's a lot of responsibility, I think, in these first foundational years. That's a big concern on my part.

Yeah.

And I appreciate some of the words that you were using in there that I think are good to focus on. One of them is foundation. A lot of what our children are going to grow into is established when they're in those younger years.

Their patterns of thought, their approaches to these things have that. I also appreciate that you brought up advice. That's something that's difficult for us as guys. We know it, you know it, that there's times where we know we're struggling with something or we should know we're struggling with something, and we're just going to put our head down and bull through it and figure it out.

And that's not always the best way to do it. In fact, it's usually not the best way to do it. And if there was ever going to be a subject where we don't want to just wing it, and you can't duct tape the kids back together.

We get one chance at this.

Yeah.

Right. I mean, in the sense where, sure, our past failures, we can still correct them as we move on, but we want to do the best we can in the moment.

Yeah.

Get all of our attention to it in the moment.

Yeah.

And asking advice, I think, is a good thing. Now, in my perspective, my children, my youngest is 10, my oldest is 14. So I'm in that circumstance where I'm sort of starting to bridge this gap between having younger children who are very dependent on me for almost everything, but they're not quite at that phase where they're independent and I can just leave them be and do their own thing.

So for me, some of the things that I find myself focusing on is wanting to be prepared to answer these more sophisticated challenges and questions that these children have. Because as they get older, they get more sophisticated.

They're able to ask questions that, from an adult's perspective, just come out of left.

Field.

I hadn't really thought of that before. That's not something I would have considered. So I find myself wanting to be prepared, ready to answer circumstances like that. So that's on my mind often, wanting to continue to reinforce the things that they got from a foundational standpoint about the importance of family, being grateful, thankful for the perspectives that we have, and not being overly down on ourselves or pessimistic about the things that we may not have that other folks might be with.

For me, when it comes to worry, one of the things that I see in my particular circumstances, I'm very often concerned about the culture's ability to influence my children's thinking in subtle ways. And that especially applies to things like sexuality.

My daughter is 10 years old, and this is just one of those worlds where I see so many conflicting voices out there. And it's important to me that my daughter has an understanding and appreciation of her value and who she is and how she gets her value.

So understanding what God the Father is like, it's important for me to model what real masculine love is supposed to be and supposed to look like, so that she's not seeking that from somebody who is going to provide that in a...

And she knows what it looks like.

In a bed. What's the hope?

It's really important for her to understand this is what nurture and care, for me, looks like. It's really important for a child to know that. And especially our daughters, for them to understand this is what that looks like.

And for my son, also, he's in a circumstance... It's easier for me to understand his perspective, being male. But there again, a lot of the things that the world presents, I know exactly what he's up against.

I know what's happening. And I'm not so far removed from an era when technology was not quite as pervasive. It's worse now than it is. In my phase, that's sort of where I am, is trying to strike this balance between protecting my kids from dangers, but not crippling them spiritually.

Because you can shelter your children, and then sooner or later, they're going to have to live without you. And if they're not ready, then you've just sort of set them up for failure. And then that starts the transition into the next phase, which is the perspective of being a father of grown children, adults who are now doing things their way.

Fatherhood with Adult Children: Letting Go, Staying Available, and Praying

So what's that like for you, Kevin?

Well, it's amazing. And it's been quite a journey. One thing that I'm always struck with every day is how things change. I appreciate every single stage. And hearing you guys talk about the younger kids and all of that just brings back so many memories, and it's wonderful.

But then things change. I wish that I could keep them young and keep them at home and all of that. And one of the hardest things that I've struggled with is really letting go and realizing these married kids of mine, the three that are out of the house are all three married, they're adults, and they don't answer to me anymore.

And so I might see them doing something that I think, oh, that's not good. They should be doing something different. And it is like everything within me says, you got to correct them, you got to talk to.

Them.

And I have been learning, and I've been making a conscious effort in this to not give them advice unless they ask for it. I want to be available to them. I want to maintain that relationship, lines of communication, praise the Lord, are open with all three.

But it's not my role anymore to make sure that they are doing things the way I think they should be done, that kind of thing.

Now, just to insert something in there, I wanted to bring up a point that, Nelson, you were talking about the idea of establishing a foundation. I'm worried or thinking about the idea of how my kids interact with culture.

I like what you were talking about, about lines of communication being open.

Yes.

I think it's really important that we as fathers create an environment where there's this ability to be the dad in the prodigal son story. So that if my children do take a path, if they do get into trouble, if they do get into somewhere, you want your children to think, I'm in trouble, I screwed up, I need to go.

Home.

Instead of thinking, the last thing I want to do is tell dad about this, because it's going to be a nightmare. I think that's a really important perspective.

One of the things I hammer in to my kids, again, a foundational phrase, and I say, do you know daddy loves you? And I asked him that, do you know daddy loves you when you're good?

Yes.

Do you know daddy loves you when you're bad?

Yes.

Do you know daddy loves you even when you're really, really bad and you do something horrible, the worst thing ever?

Yes.

I need them to know that, because first of all, that's how God loves us, right? And I don't want anyone ever telling them, don't tell your parents, don't tell your dad this or that, he'll be really mad at you.

I want them to know that no matter what, no matter what they've done, they can fail and they can still realize that path to their father, to me, and to God is always available and open and loving and caring.

Truth and love. Now, as a father of adult children, is there anything that you find yourself, Kevin, thinking, this is something that I'm concerned about. This is what I worry about for the sake of my children.

That goes beyond something just like common day-to-day advice.

It's always in the back of my mind. There's the idea that possibly they'll stray. They're out on their own. They're living their own lives. And so I've got this worry that I need to keep taking to the Lord, this burden that I need to take to the Lord and say, Lord, they're in your hands.

And my wife and I have raised them in the way that we think was a biblical way. And they have a strong foundation, but everybody makes choices. And so sometimes I feel like Job in the Old Testament, where at the beginning of Job, he's out there offering sacrifices every day on behalf of his children in case they had sinned.

Right.

And I feel like that sometimes. It's like, oh, I wish there was something I could do to make sure their relationship with God stays strong. So it's a worry and it's just something I need to take to the Lord.

I need to keep praying. For my children, but then treat them as adults, respect them as adults, and keep the lines of communication open.

That's good. That's good.

I appreciate that. Well, with just a couple of minutes that we have left, I think something that would be interesting for us to be able to do, as we've said, fatherhood is a learning process. We're never perfect.

But one of the things that we do find ourselves doing is looking back sometimes and saying, you know, now that I know what I know, I might have thought this or thought that. Now, with the different stages of fatherhood that the three of us are in, some of that is fresh in our minds.

So with these last few minutes, in just a few words, if Nelson, the condition that you're in with the age of your children, what would be advice that you would give to the brand new, the literally we just became dad kind of dads?

What sort of things would you suggest that they focus on or not worry about?

I know it's scary. I know, but you can do it. God has equipped you in a way to do this, and he's given you instruction in his word. And so we need to look to that. And so you have God's scripture, and you have God's people, and you have God's presence, all of it in your life, instructing you how to go about it.

And so there's that. And then the other thing I always think about, I always, I tended to, in the beginning, to look forward to the next stage. I can't wait to get out of diapers. I can't wait to start walking.

I can't wait to start doing this. And then I had to kind of train myself, no, no, no, I need to enjoy every moment. And be present in every single moment. And so that's one of the pieces of advice I would also give.

Just be there. Don't be waiting and hoping for the next stage. Just be present and be joyful and thankful in the present stage.

I definitely echo that. I can resonate with that because my children are now in a later phase. And I can see there's times where I look back and go, oh, there was so much fun and joy in that. In my perspective, I'm looking back and saying my kids are in the middle, you know, late middle school kind of era.

I'm looking back at children in that age. And one of the things that I would say is, you know, a piece of advice would be to focus on keeping those questioning lines open. Make sure that your kids understand that if they have a question or a concern or a complaint even, that it's okay to express that.

Because what I fortunately was able to find is that when you do that, they will do that. When they have concerns, when they have problems, when they have issues, they will come and do that. And I think with my kids, that worked out well.

But I can even see more issues where there's times I look back and say, yeah, I wish I had pushed maybe a little more. Give them that encouragement to really dig into exploring and seeing where those truths are.

And that leads us to Kevin, your perspective would be on, what do you do when you've got kids who are in that high school, just about to leave the nest kind of a phase? What's your advice to that dad?

I would say continue to spend time with your kids and get to know them as individuals. They are individual, one of a kind creations of God. And what works for one child will not always work for another child.

And you have to know your child. And it takes time and there's no shortcuts. Dads have to spend time with their kids and talk to them.

I appreciate that. I know as kids get older, sometimes it's a lot easier to not spend time because interests start to diverge and they become more independent. But that's a good word.

And have good dad jokes. I always have one ready for me.

I'm pretty sure good dad jokes is a contradiction in terms.

I never thought of it that way.

Yes.

But at any rate, that's about all the time that we have for right now. I appreciate Kevin, Nelson, you guys being here. Again, this is the Got Questions podcast. We hope that this has been something encouraging and uplifting to you, especially to fathers.

So we hope to catch you again very soon. So as always, remember, this is Got Questions. The Bible has answers.

We will help you find them.