February 16, 2021 Show with Jeremy Stalnecker on “March or Die: Basic Biblical Principles in How to Find Hope in Adversity”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth, who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 16th day of February, 2021, and I'm thrilled today to have both a first -time guest and a first -time co -host.

First, let me introduce our primary guest today. His name is Jeremy Stolnecker, and he is a

United States Marine who was assigned to 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st

Marine Division as an infantry platoon commander, and who in 2003 deployed to Kuwait in support of what would become

Operation Iraqi Freedom. He is also a former pastor, an author, and co -founder of Mighty Oaks, and today we're going to be addressing his book,

March or Die, Basic Biblical Principles and How to Find Hope in Adversity, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jeremy Stolnecker.

Thanks, Chris. I'm really looking forward to it and appreciate the opportunity. I forgot to ask you this before we went on the air, but I'm hoping

I pronounced your name correctly. You did. A lot of people get it wrong.

All those letters, it throws everyone off, but you did it exactly right. Let me also introduce my first -time co -host,

Gabriel Wrench, who is a host at Cross Politics Studios, and it's great to have you for the very first time co -hosting with me,

Gabriel. Yeah. Thank you, Chris. Glad to co -host with you and tag -team against Jeremy.

Great, and let me immediately give our listeners our email address if you'd like to join us during the conversation with questions of your own.

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and you might even want to send an email or a text or give a phone call to, or however you communicate these days in social media or otherwise, get in contact with those you know who are in the military, who are veterans, who are the parents or spouses of veterans, and have them tune in.

I think the program will be of special interest to you, but Jeremy, first of all, why don't you tell our listeners something about Mighty Oaks?

What exactly is that organization? Sure. The Mighty Oaks Foundation, we have been around since the end of 2011, and we primarily minister to a few different groups, veterans, active duty service members, first responders, and then spouses.

So those are kind of the target audience for us, those who have served, those who are serving, those who are serving in the first responder community, either police, fire, that first responder community, or those who are married to someone who is.

And a lot I could say here, but we primarily have week -long programs.

We do 30 of these this year in one of four locations across the country where we will bring a student to our location.

We pay for the program. We pay for the travel. We try to remove every obstacle to get them there.

And then over the course of about five days, we talk about trauma, whether it's related to combat or military service or service as a first responder, or just trauma related piece of life.

So many of the folks who come to us, they're dealing with combat -related trauma, but if you really kind of start to peel back the onion and get underneath that, there was trauma as children, relationship issues, a lot of other things going on in their lives that military service just kind of brought to the surface.

So we talk about trauma. We acknowledge it. We deal with it in terms of what it is and what it was. We then try to move beyond that and say, you know, things happen in our lives.

We won't get over those. We won't forget them. They have an impact on us for sure. But they don't need to control our lives.

And the way we move forward is by aligning our life to the life we were created to live.

We approach trauma and the treatment of trauma from a faith -based perspective, which to us means we understand there is a creator that he created with purpose and with a plan, and that if we'll align ourselves, our lives to that plan, we can move forward in a meaningful way.

And we have the opportunity to do that. We've had about 4 ,000 students come through that week -long program. And it's really interesting.

As I mentioned, we are a faith -based program, which faith -based is very general. I know that. But we are a

Christian program run by Christians. We don't hide that. But many of the folks who attend our program are not.

In fact, a lot of the folks would say they either don't believe in God or they believe in him but they hate him or something like that.

And over the course of that week, about 70 % of the folks who attend the program would have some kind of an encounter with Christ, whether that is they give their lives to Christ, accept him as their

Savior, or have a rededication of faith, and we could talk about what all that means.

But God has greatly blessed and given opportunity, and we've seen some tremendous things happen. Additionally, we work with the active duty community.

We have the privilege to speak on bases and to active duty units on the topic of spiritual resiliency, which is a little broader.

But again, God has really opened some tremendous doors for us. So in a nutshell, that's what we do. And again,

God's been very gracious and we've seen some, in spite of the craziness in the world, and it's crazy, we've seen some great things happen.

Amen. Well, you know, years ago, I very sadly backslid into the sin of habitual scandalous drunkenness, and that was after 18 years of sobriety after becoming a

Christian. And I enrolled in an addiction recovery program that was thoroughly

Christian. Heber on Colony Ministries in Boone, North Carolina. I can never stop singing the praises about that organization.

But the number of people, the percentage of people who were residents there, or as they call them, students, the majority were not truly regenerate people, although, especially since this is a

Southern ministry, even though I was a Yankee, or am a Yankee, I was one of only two or three

Yankees there. Everybody else was a Southern boy. Because of that, you have a lot of the students that were raised in Christian homes, but they could have been from nominal backgrounds, but I could sense that certainly the majority were not regenerate people who happened to have fallen back into sin.

These were people who were very foreign to Christianity, but they knew that they had a serious problem that needed to be overcome, and that is either because of a realization that their lives were just falling apart, or because of legal requirements to prevent them from going into prison or going back to prison.

What is it that keeps people who hate God or are indifferent to Him wanting to stick it out in your ministry?

As you said before, because you said that not all of the folks there who are enrolled in the

Mighty Oaks program are regenerate brothers and sisters in Christ, but a number that are not.

What makes them say, I'm going to stick this out? The majority of the folks that we work with have access to just about every clinical program that exists.

I'll start off by saying this, and I want to acknowledge this, because this is always the pushback I get from folks.

There are very real psychological, physiological impacts to trauma.

There's no question about that. A lot of the things that we would even diagnose as coming from trauma in my world, in the military world, come from traumatic brain injuries and those kinds of things, and they manifest these symptoms that look like PTSD or other things.

I say that just to say I acknowledge and can that there are real impacts in real ways for people that deal with trauma or some of these more severe combat brain injuries or traumatic brain injuries and those things.

But the front end of the journey for most of these folks, whether it is what would be diagnosed as post -traumatic stress or it is something related to traumatic brain injury or it's just bad behavior on the other side of military service that has caused severe problems in their relationships or even in their job, where they begin treatment for those things is with the clinical programs.

They begin with the inpatient programs. They begin with the counselors and all of the other things the

Veterans Administration and other government organizations offer. So they have all of that.

Most of the time, those who are not Christians that end up in our program, they're there because they've tried everything else and they haven't found success.

They've done all of the clinical stuff. They've taken the medications. They've done the other things, but there's still something missing.

They can't get their feet underneath them. They have no solid foundation on which to build these relationships that have been broken and deal with these issues that they're struggling through.

So they come to us almost, in many, many cases, as a last resort.

We've tried everything else and it just hasn't worked. Maybe it's helped, but there's been no sustaining value to those things.

We've gotten some tools. We've learned some things. We've gotten some medication, but we're still struggling to really figure this thing out.

So they end up with us. Again, as I mentioned, we pay for everything. We work with the command if they're active duty and they need to get the time off.

We've had great success getting them that time off. We cover the cost of travel. We have four locations across the country and we'll pay to get them there.

So their investment is really five days of time. And in that five days, what we ask them to do, and this is the first conversation we have on day one, what we're going to ask you to do this week is simply contrast the life that you are living right now with the life that we're going to model for you.

And then we start to talk about what that looks like. We talk about the fact that we believe, and you don't have to, but we believe that God is, that He is the

Creator, that as a Creator, as the Creator, He has created with purpose and with a plan, that He has a plan for your life.

And we're going to begin breaking that down. What does that look like? And so our encouragement on day one is you don't have to like this, you don't have to buy into it, but clearly what you're doing hasn't worked up to this point.

So just take some time over the next several days to compare your life with the life that we're going to model for you.

And when people begin to do that, again, the investment is short. It's not a long, you know, multi -week thing.

On the other end of it, they can go home, they haven't paid anything, they've gotten away from work or a relationship that they're struggling in, and they've had the opportunity to spend time with us.

One of the keys that helps is that all of our instructors, all of the folks that they'll deal with over that week are also either veterans, active duty service members, or first responders.

They're coming from the same background. It's a segregated program, so you have a men's program and then we have a women's program.

So, you know, they don't have the distraction of, you know, the opposite gender.

They are around people who can say to them, I know where you've been because I've been there, and all

I'm asking you to do is listen to me for a few days. And with that, folks will stick it out, even if they're kind of against it at first, they're there for whatever the reason is, but as they begin to realize this is an answer and this is a plan, and this is the foundation they've been looking for, many of them will say, where do

I start? Well, we're going to be repeating this,

God willing, later on in the program, but the website, if you want more information for Mighty Oaks Foundation, is mightyoaksprograms .org.

And Gabriel Wrench, tell our listeners about CrossPolitik Studios.

I have seen your exhibitor booth at the G3 conference, at least one, for CrossPolitik, but tell us about this organization.

Yeah, so we started CrossPolitik with my associate pastor. I serve as a deacon at my church and my friend, who's a filmmaker, back in 2016 because I think largely, at least in my generation,

I'm about 40 years old, I believe, or it seems to me that the church has not done a very good job in discipling their sheep, discipling the congregation on how to think about politics in relationship to scriptures, how to think about how the

Bible applies to politics and culture. And so, that's kind of our specific anthem that we drum the beat on, is we want to bring the

Lordship of Jesus into politics, particularly. I think we've seen kind of a generation of men and women growing up who don't know how to apply the

Bible to scripture or to politics, or who even maybe go so far as to think that the Bible doesn't apply to politics.

And so, what has happened is you get a good gospel message on Sunday at church, and then you go out and maybe listen to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, or substitute your favorite political pastor during the week to get your information on what you should be thinking about politics.

And so, we have a very disconnected view of how the scriptures apply to politics, and I think that's caused a lot of problems in the church.

And I think we're kind of reaping what we've sown a little bit in all this. And so, Cross Politics, we're kind of a

TV show slash podcast, and we exist to basically proclaim the

Lordship of Christ over politics. And we've had a lot of fun along the way since 2016. We've had Ted Cruz on,

Ben Carson, Ben Shapiro, Alveda King, Jeremy Stalnecker.

We've had Jeremy on. And that was actually the best show you've had. Exactly. And so, that medium or that platform has been,

I think, really helpful. And I'll just say, probably our largest audience in all this is evangelicals, someone who's...

I don't know what happened, Gabriel, but you... Excuse me. Sorry. Okay. I'm back. Yeah. Our largest audience in all this is some sort of evangelical who's about 35, 40 years old who's kind of having kids, starting to figure out, how am

I going to educate my kids? I don't want to give my kids over to this new

America that we're seeing form in front of us. So, I think a lot of people are really, right now, especially given our current political climate, trying to figure out how to think about politics in relationship to what

God's Word has to say for it. So, that's what Cross Politics does. I'm a host. I serve as a deacon at my church, and I'm married to my wife,

Annie, and I have three children that are under 10 years old, and it's a riot.

And would that be Christ Church of Moscow, Idaho? Yeah. So, my pastor is

Pastor Doug Wilson. Associate Pastor is Pastor Toby Sumter, who's a host on the show with me. Great.

Yeah. I have interviewed your pastor, Doug Wilson, and look forward to his return.

In fact, for those of you listening who happen to enjoy the reading and preaching of Doug Wilson, he is going to be returning,

God willing, on Friday, March 26th to Iron Trip and Zion Radio. So, you might want to mark your calendars.

Quickly, just because I think his name or his nickname is hilarious, who is Chocolate Knox?

Yeah. So, one of my co -hosts is Chocolate Knox.

He's a Black filmmaker, and he kind of became Reformed, I think, in the early 2000s, and kind of in his journey into the

Reformed faith, he obviously came across John Knox, who said, give me Scotland or I die.

And so, David, Chocolate Knox, Chalk Knox on our show, his little mantra under his

Twitter is, give me the Black church or I die. And so, we have a lot of fun with that. Well, I wanted to, although you guys were so busy at the

Cross Politics Studios exhibitors booth when I was there at the last

G3 conference, but I wanted to introduce myself to David Shannon as the

Vanilla David Shannon. But I never had the opportunity.

And if anybody wants to find out more about CrossPolitik, you can go to their website, which is

CrossPolitik .com, not politics with an S at the end, but CrossPolitik .com.

And hopefully, we'll remember to announce that later on in the program. Well, Jeremy, we have a tradition here at Iron Trip and Zion Radio, whenever we have a first -time guest.

We have a brief portion of the earlier part of our interview dedicated to that guest, giving a summary of his or her salvation testimony, which would include the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign

Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. We do hope to have

Gabriel Wrench back as a guest on his own at some point in the future.

Today, he is a co -host, but we will have Gabriel give his testimony the next time he returns for the sake of time restraints.

But if you could, Jeremy, give us a summarized version of your salvation testimony. Sure, I'd love to.

I have a very simple salvation testimony. I was raised in a pastor's home.

My dad, at the time I accepted Christ, was an associate pastor at a church in Indiana.

Eventually, he would start a church, and my mom would start a church here in Southern California, which is how I ended up here.

But I was raised in a home where, you know, faith was real and discipleship happened.

And even as a small child, I knew the importance of that, although I didn't understand how it applied to me necessarily.

Personally, I will never forget the Sunday school class, and it sounds, you know, quite trite.

It's very real to me. The Sunday school class where a teacher asked all the kids sitting there, do you know that Jesus is your

Savior? I didn't even know what that meant exactly, but I knew that I didn't know the answer to that, and I knew that I wasn't going to ask her for the answer.

So she asked the question, I buried it away, and later that day I said, Dad, the teacher asked this question,

I don't know what that means. And my dad sat me down and kind of walked me through scriptures and what it means to have a personal relationship with Christ and what it means to repent of our sin and, you know, turn toward that eternal relationship.

And so I was young at the time, and that was the beginning, certainly, of my spiritual journey.

That was the day I put my faith in Christ. Now, growing up in a pastor's home, a lot of what you do is almost by osmosis.

You do it because you're supposed to, and those expectations are there. It wasn't until, you know, into my 20s that I really,

I would say, made that faith my own and really leaned into growing in that and understanding what that meant.

But that was the environment. It was an environment created by my parents. It's funny now,

I look back on that, and this is kind of an aside, but for those that are listening, I look back on that, and I know a lot of young people who were raised in Christian homes or at least religious homes, that as soon as they could get away from that, they did.

And I think a lot of that is just because of the inauthenticity of the parents as those kids were being raised.

And my parents were certainly not perfect, but were extremely authentic, loved the

Lord, and did everything they could to communicate that to us and to me and my sisters. And so, you know,

I serve the Lord today, in large part because of the example of my mom and dad. I would just like to add in all this, it's good to see more pastor's kids grow up faithful.

So good work, Jeremy. Well, I'd like to take credit for it, but God be praised.

Jeremy, were you a truly regenerate Christian during your service as an active

United States Marine? I was. You know, what's interesting is

I would, you know, the process of sanctification, obviously, is a process.

But to be regenerate, yes, I was a Christian, and I knew that. I never doubted that. As I served in the

Marine Corps, that was not a question. Now, my commitment to serving God was certainly a question.

That was something that it wasn't until I was in the Marine Corps that I really understood I had a responsibility as a believer that we're saved unto good works to do the work that God had called me to.

And, you know, that having a relationship with Christ isn't about simply staying out of hell.

It's about serving God, the Creator, and living a life that glorifies Him. And it took me into my 20s to really get a hold of that and to understand that and to commit my life to doing that.

But I believe that the reason I was able to make that decision and, you know, God convicted my heart was because I was a regenerate person.

I was a Christian, and the Holy Spirit of God convicted my heart when I was walking away from what

God wanted me to do. And so I'm very thankful for that. But it took some time. I was married in college.

I went into the Marine Corps married with a very small child and spent most of my days focused on my career and focused on, you know, doing what

I wanted to do and what I had always wanted to do. I tell a story sometimes. My wife accepted Christ after we were married.

And when she went through that process, I was in such a place in my own spiritual life that I went, are you sure?

I think you are a Christian. I wouldn't worry too much about it. And man, what a terrible, terrible thing as a husband to do and to say.

Thankfully, she's a lot stronger than me. And she's like, you're an idiot. I know that God wants me to give my life to Him.

And so thankful for that. But that's where I was in my early 20s. And it was a process.

But God brought me into really understanding that and, again, repenting of that and acknowledging that He had something bigger in store for me and for us and for the work in front of me.

And I think that you would agree with me. I just wanted to do a little bit of damage control in regard to something that you said earlier that may indeed be true about people who leave the faith they were raised in because of the insincerity of their parents.

We obviously would have to acknowledge that there are many very godly Christian parents who really gave it their all in a human sense to raise their children in the faith.

And nonetheless, the children or child totally abandons the faith.

After all, we cannot breed Christians. As the old saying goes, there is no grandchildren in heaven.

In other words, God doesn't have grandchildren. He has children. And His elect are not always the children of Christian parents.

So we just have to make that clear. I concur with that. No, that's a great statement.

And that's why I would say often many of the young people that I know later in their lives that said,

I'm not going to do it. I can't do it. I won't do it. In a lot of ways, it's because they haven't seen an authentic Christian life lived out.

However, I have spoken to many, many, many moms and dads who, by all indications, have done everything right.

And you're exactly right. You can't just blanketly state that. But the faithful testimony of parents carries so many young people who have become adults through their lives.

Amen. Well, we have to go to our first break right now. And once again, if anybody has any questions for Jeremy Stolnecker, and we are going to be getting involved in a discussion on his book when we return,

March or Die, Moving Forward When Your World Seems Out of Control. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is United States Marine Jeremy Stolmecker, and co -hosting with me today is

Gabriel Ranch of Cross Politics Studios, and we are addressing today

Jeremy Stolmecker's book, March or Die, Moving Forward When Your World Seems Out of Control.

If you have a question for Jeremy, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Well, Jeremy, obviously, one thing that we need to do immediately is explain the ominous title of your book,

March or Die. It sounds like the perfect gift you should give every son who turns 18 years old, but if you could, tell us about that.

Yeah, sure. I tell a story in the book, and I won't tell the whole story, but we, as you mentioned in the introduction, were in Kuwait in January 2003.

As most people understand or know, on March 19th of that year, the 1st Marine Division, along with the 3rd

Infantry Division from the Army, pushed north across the border, across the berm, into southern

Iraq, and then we made our way to Baghdad later on that year. But along the way, so we crossed the border.

Ours was the Infantry Battalion that breached the berm. We were the first Marine Infantry Battalion into the country.

We secured the southern objective and then basically started a long road march up to Baghdad. Baghdad would be our final destination.

Along the way, we hit an objective, and man, it was one of the craziest things.

A lot of crazy things happened while we were there. This was one of the craziest. It was the middle of the day.

We were told to secure a bridge. It was a bridge over a canal called the

Saddam Canal, and that wasn't unusual. What was unusual is that an entire infantry battalion, about 1 ,200

Marines, were sent to secure a very small bridge in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the day, and all of that was because intel sources said that there's no enemy there, this bridge is strategic because it will serve as a point for the rest of the division to pass through on the way north, and so we need to secure it.

We need to make sure no one does anything to it, so they sent our battalion. Because of where I was positioned,

I was navigating for the battalion. Again, 1 ,200 Marines, vehicles stretched over several miles as we made this movement.

I was navigating, so I was the second vehicle back in our column. We got to the bridge. We could see it off in the distance, and the summary version of this story is it immediately became clear that there was enemy, in fact, on the bridge.

Mortar rounds started to fall around our vehicles. Machine gun position on the near side pointing toward us began to engage, and we had to deal with that, and we did.

We dealt with the first part of that, which was the machine gun position. Eventually, in what seemed like hours, it was just a matter of minutes, though, we ended up on top of the bridge.

So myself, my vehicle, all machine gun vehicles. You've seen the Humvees with mounted machine guns.

We had eight of those on top of the bridge, and as we were trying to figure out what to do, how to navigate the enemy that was there, an enemy anti -aircraft gun that was positioned there began to move our direction.

It was swinging around toward us. The mortar rounds fell. We were in a really, really bad spot, and the moral of this story, and I tell this in a longer version, and it's in the book as well, is when you find yourself in life in a situation just like that, you only have two choices.

You can stay where you are and die, which is a decision you make, by the way. You can stay where you are.

You can say, I can't handle it anymore. It's just too hard. It probably isn't the physical death, but in our relationships, in our spiritual life, emotionally, we can just give up and die.

We can say, the enemy has overwhelmed me. I can't move on. Or we can do the other thing, and the other thing is to just put one foot in front of the other and march to a place where we can better impact the enemy in front of us.

When I checked in as a second lieutenant to 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, I checked into Charlie Company, so this was a few years before this event took place, and Charlie Company, 1st

Battalion, 5th Marines has a motto, just like so many other units in the military, and the motto is march or die, and it looks really good on a

T -shirt. It means something when you're actually in that spot, though, and it's crazy what you think, but as all of that was happening, that motto popped into my head.

We've got to march, or we're going to stay here and die, and since then, that has become kind of a byline for so many of the things that I've done and say and speak and teach and preach, and, you know, that's the

Christian life. The Christian life is, your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path. It's pursuing God one step at a time.

It's trusting Him for what's ahead, but so many people decide, because I can't see the end from the beginning,

I'm going to quit. Because it's overwhelming, I'm going to give up, and that's a decision you can make, but the better decision is to march, so march or die.

That is the motto of my life. Keep going. Don't give up. Now, knowing that you have a very unique background, which is a rare background,

I mean, there are many United States Marines and veterans who may have similar stories, but it still makes up a small percentage of the entire population,

I'm assuming, especially judging from the subtitle, Moving Forward When Your World Seems Out of Control, that this has a much broader application to a much wider spectrum of people.

Who exactly is your intended audience for this book, or intended readership? The intended readership would be anyone who has had struggles in life, anyone who encounters an enemy, encounters obstacles, who, in moving through their lives, comes to the point where they say something like,

I'm just not sure I can do this anymore. I look at my entire time in Iraq, and so the book is laid out in a way that tells the story of my time in Iraq, which wasn't long.

The war was almost 20 years long there. I was there for a relatively short period of time, but I tell stories like that one, that engagement at the bridge, when we went into Baghdad, when we crossed the

Berm, the first time we lost someone. I tell these stories, which are just combat stories, and I do my best to make a spiritual application, because as I look at my own life, and I think all of us should do this, we should ask

God to reveal to us the lessons he wants us to learn as we move through these things. And since my experience is, as you mentioned, unique,

I'm not the only one that's had an experience like this, but unique to the broader world, it gives me an opportunity to tell an interesting story like that one, and then to make an application.

And I've really enjoyed doing that. I've had young people who are struggling with things.

I read your book, and it really helps me. I've had elderly folks who are, in the later years of their life, who have picked it up and read it and said, man, this is exactly what

I need. I need to keep marching. I need to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Obstacles, difficulties, trials, that's life.

That's why we are told to be prepared, to give an answer of the hope within us. That's life. But there is a path forward, and that's really what

I attempt to outline here. To make it an interesting read, it has a historical context to it, but more than anything, to give some principles for moving forward.

And tell us about the chapter in your book, or the section of your book.

Understand that the biggest fights in your life come when you least expect them.

That always makes, at least initially, any conflict or trial or trauma, at least initially, more difficult to grasp and respond in a godly way to when they're unexpected, when we're taken off guard, et cetera.

But explain that. When we were, and this story is where that point came from as well, when we were moving toward our objective, it was the middle of the day, as I mentioned.

The sun is high in the sky. This is not something we would typically do. But because there was not supposed to be an enemy presence on the bridge, we made this movement at really the worst possible time for a unit like ours, in the middle of the day.

The ground around us was flat. We could see for many miles into the distance. This was not a good tactical movement, if you were to plan a tactical movement.

And when the mortar rounds started falling on the road that we were driving on, I remember having the thought, and it was one of those weird, again, thoughts that pops into your mind when people are shooting at you.

This is not supposed to happen. This was a thought I added. It sounds ridiculous, but we had had a brief division -level intel that says there are no enemy combatants on the bridge.

You're going to move there. It's going to be an easy day. And it turned out to be anything other than that.

And so we had a large enemy to deal with in a place where there wasn't supposed to be an enemy.

And in life, it's the exact same thing. They say it's not the bus that you see coming that runs you over. It's the one you don't expect.

And so often in life, the biggest battles are the ones we didn't think could happen. It's the relationships that fall apart.

We never saw that coming. It's the financial reversal. It is some other overwhelming situation that in our minds was not even a possibility.

And the problem with that is we didn't anticipate it. And so for many people, and again,

I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush, but for many people, the unexpected becomes so overwhelming that they become, in a very real sense, the lifelong victims of a one -time event.

And we've all talked to these people. These are the people that, regardless of what we're talking about, what the conversation is about, what we're dealing with, it always comes back to who has hurt them, to what happened back here, to some reversal or some downturn.

The unexpected can absolutely destroy us if we allow it to. It's more, though, than just expecting the unexpected.

We certainly cannot anticipate everything. But it has to be acknowledging upfront before anything happens.

Something in my life is going to turn in a direction I didn't expect. So what am I going to do when that happens?

And not to spend too much time on this, but that's the response. So the biggest fights come when you least expect them.

You don't get to control everything that happens in your life. You don't get to control that. We like to, but we can't.

But what we do get to control is how we respond to them. And so in our minds, as we're living our lives, preparation says there will be events that will take place that you didn't see coming.

That's life. You're just going to have to deal with it. But when it happens, decide now how you're going to respond.

And if you decide before the event takes place, you will probably respond in the right way. Now, most of us...

Gabriel, did you want to say something? I'm sorry. Yeah, no, it's just Jeremy had me thinking during his answer that it seems like really digging into Psalms, the book of Psalms, kind of plays out this experience that you're talking about, where David constantly was wrestling with big events in his life happening to him, which was changing his life direction, right?

I really like what you said when you said people have one -time events that change their direction for the rest of their life.

I think that's a really helpful way of putting it. And it seems like just being kind of insaturated in the

Psalms is a good medicine for these kinds of experiences, where you see the struggle that David had in real life.

You see his struggle with, kind of almost complaining to God about,

God, why is this happening? And then you see at the end of the Psalm, kind of his faith and rest and his assurance that God is working in his life, even though these bad things are happening.

We've talked about this before, Jeremy, offline, where it seems like part of the answer of those dealing with traumatic events is because they didn't have an ultimate standard to place those experiences in.

And so they go on the battlefield and see death and see murder and see catastrophe, but they have no ultimate resolve to be able to answer the big questions in relationship to that moment in time.

And so finding your comfort in the Psalms is a good way to maybe process a lot of this.

Now, it seems that you emphasize story. Let me, one more thing here, and it'll turn into a question for you.

You emphasize story a lot in March or Die, which I find really helpful.

And because what that does is that helps people start to kind of place themselves in their own story and see some of Jeremy's godly principles and some of Jeremy's godly grounding in the

Scripture and all that. And then it kind of leads them to an answer in their own lives and all that.

I guess maybe connect that parable, connect that narrative in relationship to the

Psalms and how it might bring ultimate foundations to people and their lives that go into these experiences.

In fact, if you could, Jeremy, answer that question when we return from our midway break, because we've got to go into the break now, and I don't want to interrupt you mid -sentence.

And folks, just a reminder, this is the longer than normal break that we have in the show, the midway break, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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And they do so with their own public service announcements and other local announcements that they air during the midway break of our show.

And while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials to people who are actually paying for this program to remain in existence.

So use this time wisely, and please write down as much of the information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can be further insured of more frequently and successfully patronizing them, which will in turn,

God willing, mean that they, our advertisers, will more than likely want to remain our advertisers.

They'll be happy with the results they're getting. And that will help us to remain on the air for a longer future,

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And if you can't purchase their products, use their services, visit their churches, please at least reach out to the advertisers to thank them for sponsoring

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Also use this time, obviously, to write down questions for Jeremy Stallnecker regarding his book,

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Before we return to Jeremy Stolnecker and our discussion of his book, March or Die, Moving Forward When Your World Seems Out of Control, we just have a couple of announcements to make.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today,

Jeremy Stolnecker, as we continue to discuss March or Die, moving forward when your world seems out of control.

And Gabriel Wrench, if you could restate your question for Jeremy, those of you who just tuned us in.

My co -host today is Gabriel Wrench, a host of Cross Politics Studios. And before the break, he asked

Jeremy a question, and I'd like you to restate it now, so Jeremy can respond. So, you know,

Jeremy, we've been discussing your book, March or Die, and you've kind of been using a lot of your personal story in some of the trials that happened to you while you were on the battlefield, and tying that into, you know, trusting the

Lord and acting, marching, or staying back and dying. And it seemed like, as you were talking, one of the parallel books of the

Bible that popped into my mind was Psalms. You have David, who went through some serious trials in his life, family trials, kingdom trials, and everything.

And then you also see in the book of Psalms how David kind of wrestled with God with those trials. And then, of course, you see

God answering him and bringing resolve to those trials in his life.

And so I wanted you to kind of interact with the book of Psalms in relationship to what you've been talking about in your book,

March or Die. Yeah, that's a great question, great insight.

I think that, I believe that one of the key verses in understanding

David is Psalm 119, 11. He simply said, your word have

I hid in my heart that I might not sin against you. And that verse really, to me, is the essence of what it means to be what we would call in our language, spiritually resilient.

To know how to deal with events that are yet unseen, to know how to overcome obstacles that you haven't even considered a possibility, to move forward when it feels like your world is falling apart requires preparation.

To be resilient means that you've made decisions ahead of time about how you will deal with whatever happens to jump up in front of you.

Now, in a spiritual sense, and we know that whether, therefore, you eat or drink, whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God, our entire life, the story of our life should be focused on giving glory to God.

Well, if that's the case, then when we talk about spiritual resilience, we need to have made spiritual decisions before difficulties pop up in our lives.

Everything is spiritual if we understand, you know, a relationship with God and the spiritual world in which we live.

And we need to make those decisions ahead of time. How do we make the right decisions ahead of time? By hiding God's word in our heart, by interacting with God's word to us, by understanding what he tells us to do, by learning how to apply that in various situations.

So, when we take a step back from that, we ask the question, how do we do that? We memorize scripture, we learn scripture, we learn from people who can teach us scripture, but we have to have an example of how the application of that scripture plays out.

Where do we see that? We see that in the lives of the men and women of the Bible. Men like David and the various interactions, from a leadership standpoint, from a spiritual standpoint, from a relationship standpoint, from a sin and repentance standpoint.

We learn from the life of David how to apply scripture to what's happening in life.

So, I see that modeled in his life. I learn what he's learned. I understand how to apply those things.

And then, when these overwhelming situations happen in my own life, I've prepared, almost vicariously, through the testimonies of those who've gone before me.

I forget who said it, it's a great quote, and I don't have it exactly right, but it's something like this.

One of the reasons I believe the Bible is true is because no human would write a book that includes the downside of the lives of its heroes.

We have everyone from the beginning to the end, we've got their good, but we also have their bad.

We see how these heroes of the faith cataloged for us in Hebrews chapter 11, how their lives played out, how they sinned against God, how they went through a process of repentance, how

God used them in spite of themselves for his glory. We understand how to apply scripture because we have an example in the various characters of the scriptures.

I think that's why Jesus used stories. We connect to story, and when we learn a truth, that's one thing.

When we learn how to apply that truth, that's something else. And man, the power in the story, as long as that story connects to scripture, is,

I don't know, anything more powerful than that, and I'm thankful that we have those in the

Bible. One of the things that you address in the book, Jeremy, when we are involved in the biggest fights of our life, is taking the focus off of ourselves.

In chapter 4, you address the issue, it's not about you. If you could give us more detail about that.

We tend to, and again, I'm generalizing here, I know not everyone is this way, but when we find ourselves in those situations of life, and again,

I'm using very generic terms here, those situations of life, we all have them, for some it's relationships, for some it's finances, for some it's a downturn in status, it can be a lot of different things, and we have these obstacles that we have to deal with.

What we tend to do immediately is make whatever's going on about us.

We internalize what's happening, we take it personally, we make the whole situation about us.

And what we fail to realize is that there are a lot of other people involved in the exact same situation who are also struggling.

When we take our eyes off of ourselves, when we stop saying, this is about me, this is a personal attack, this is because of, you know, they hate me, or they dislike me, or whatever, when we make it about us, there is no path forward.

We're looking inside. When we make it about other people, then we have the opportunity to step in to the life that God created us to live, a life that brings hope to the hopeless, a life that serves those who need to be served, a life who points others to the

Creator. When we take our eyes off of ourselves, and this can be very difficult, again,

I don't want to diminish the struggles that so many people are going through, but we have to have the ability to step back, to get a macro look at what's happening, and understand,

God is sovereign. We say that, I don't know if we always believe it, but we say it, and if God is sovereign, then

His plan is bigger than anything that we can understand. We have a part in His plan, it's a part that He has given to us, that He has orchestrated, and therefore, it's not about us.

We hurt, and God wants to minister when we hurt. He loves us, He cares for us, and all of those things that we talk about, um, blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

We understand that, that's a great truth of Scripture. But then we go to, you know,

Paul's teachings to the Corinthians, that those who hurt have the ability, then the opportunity, the platform, to help others who are hurting.

There is probably nothing more powerful in the midst of tragedy, than to, by the grace of God, through the power of the

Holy Spirit, look beyond what we're experiencing, look to others who have also been impacted, and then engage with them to help them move forward in their own lives.

The power of that is incredible. We know this in a physical sense, when we're trying to help someone who's, who's, you know, struggling, we are stronger, we have more endurance, we have more strength, but certainly it's true spiritually as well, and we're never more like Christ than when we're serving others.

I want to apply what you just said, or actually have Gabriel Wrench apply what you just said, not only to his own experience, but to something that is going on in our nation right now.

Many of our listeners may recognize the name Gabriel Wrench, who is our co -host today, because he was arrested not long ago for simply being involved in a public worship service.

And Gabriel, perhaps if you want to just give us a little bit more detail about that, but also how do we apply what

Jeremy was just saying in our day and age when many conservative individuals, and specifically

Christians, we want our voices heard, we want to expose and oppose the rise of tyranny, the rise of leftism, we want to publicize and warn against the loss of our freedoms and liberties and rights, but at the same time, how do we avoid being too caught up in having ourselves be the greatest focus of attention, not only to the world that is witnessing this, but also in our own minds and lives, if you could.

Gabriel, I'm switching a question to a co -host here. Yeah, that's a good question.

I think the answer is probably more basic than we realize. I think one of the fundamental problems with the

Church, you know, that's kind of nationwide here in America, Church nationwide, is that we ultimately don't believe all of God's Word.

And it shows up in basic things like there's certain Bible verses that the

Church kind of picks and chooses what to emphasize, or the Church kind of has its standard go -to

Bible verses, but there's other Bible verses where we might be a little embarrassed of or almost slightly apologetic of, and you see this on a small level, but also all the way up to a grand level where we're, you know, where you've got churches openly embracing homosexuality and they're just denying certain

Bible verses of the Bible. And so I think that basic lack of belief that God's Word is good

His Word, every Bible verse applies to us in our time, and that we should not, we should believe and trust in His Word for our answers,

I think would really help us be more effective in how we get engaged with the world. As you mentioned,

I was arrested during the pandemic. I'll just give a little context, a little background on this, because I think it's important, but I was arrested for singing

Psalms in front of City Hall in my town in Moscow, Idaho, and what had happened was our mayor on March 20th, this goes back to when the pandemic or the governmental, the civil pandemic started, our mayor on March 20th and city council voted to shut down our town based off their perceived emergency orders and they believed they had the power to do so.

And what that meant was that, you know, businesses in downtown had to shut down and everyone kind of had to shelter in their houses and only go out for essential items.

And so I remember this happening and like my buddy who owned a restaurant in downtown, my wife's friend who owned the athletic gym in downtown, they had to shut down their businesses.

They couldn't make any money to provide for their family and for the health of their family while at the same time, our mayor continued to earn his taxpayer funded paycheck and all this and provide for his own family and the health of his own family.

And so he shut down downtown in the name of some sort of public emergency health order while actually really hurting the health in our community through businesses shutting down.

And this happened before there was even one coronavirus case in our county.

So you couldn't even define in a state of emergency in our county when this happened. So March is so fast forward to June 30th and they kind of open things back up through that process.

And June 30th, they voted in the council and mayor voted in a masking resolution that you had to wear a mask where you could not social distance.

And so one of the ways that my church protests in all this is we actually just go sing psalms, psalms and hymns and, you know, basically do a little 15 minute worship service in downtown, in our downtown or in front of city hall in the parking lot.

And so what happened was on we started kind of doing some things occasionally in July and August, August 3rd, the city council again voted to extend that masking resolution to wear a mask where you could not stand six feet apart.

And and then we kept doing a couple of psalm things here and there. And then on September 21st, our city council voted to extend the mask mandate again.

Well, on September 23rd, my church again, let's go do a psalm thing. So we went to city hall.

And when we got to the city hall parking lot, what was amazing, we

I just I walk into the parking lot and I see the city had spray painted circles on the pavement six feet apart.

So every six feet, the city had spray painted a circle so they could kind of objectively say that, hey, this protest is not following our masking resolution.

We can objectively see that no one's standing six feet apart. And so when we started singing psalms, the officers came up and approached me and my mom.

And they asked my mom, are you with this man? And my mom said, this is my son. So we were allowed to stand next to each other.

And so I put my arm around my buddy next to me, Tyler, and said, but this is my friend, Tyler. And so the arresting officer proceeded to ask my driver's license.

And I told him, you don't have to do this, officer. He asked my driver's license and I said, look,

I have a, you have a duty to uphold my First Amendment rights, not to enforce this unconstitutional mayoral order.

And he didn't answer that question, obviously. And so I, and so he asked my driver's license again. I said, you know, you don't want to do this.

And he said, you're right, I don't. And he asked for my license one more time.

And I said, you don't have to do this. And then he proceeded to arrest me. And while he's arresting me, it was pretty the contrast was pretty thick.

Like Psalm 20 was being sung in the background. Some trust in chariots, some trust in horses, but we trust in the Lord our God. And they had to take my hymnal out of my hands.

They had to take a hymn book out of my hands to arrest me and to cuff me. And so they took me over to the car and, you know, they put me in the back of the vehicle and they're taking me to the county jail.

And as I'm going, I knew I was going to have to pay bond money or I was going to get fined. I was just like, well,

I might as well get my money's worth. I just started preaching, you know, officer, you know, this is wrong.

You know, before God and all these witnesses, you should have been out here protecting my First Amendment rights. He's kind of, you know, laying into them.

And then I get to the jail. They booked me. They put me in the jail for a couple hours. And the arresting officer comes and explains my citation.

He said, I'm citing you for breaking the masking order, breaking the mask resolution.

I'm not going to cite you for obstruction. And the obstruction is, you know, I didn't hand my license over kind of thing.

So he didn't cite me for the obstruction, but he cited me for breaking the mask mandate. And I just said, oh, oh, thank you,

Master. So merciful, Master. Thank you. And he audibly kind of gasped because he really did think he would be merciful.

Wow. But what in reality, what had happened was he did not protect my

First Amendment rights. He swore an oath to defend and uphold my First Amendment rights. And he did not do that.

And the judge agreed with me on December on, excuse me, on January 9th, the judge dismissed my case. And the judge obviously agreed with me on that.

Praise God. So that. Yeah, so amen. But it just shows also how the church is kind of,

I think, not been discipled and taught very well to think through how the responsibility and their relationship to the government and the government's responsibility and relationship to the church.

And so that's why we're in this weird dynamic right now, where John MacArthur's fighting with the state of California, Rob McCoy is fighting in California.

You got the Canadian pastors up north having a big fight in what's going on. And it's really kind of tragic.

But what we need to do in all this is, I think, recommit ourselves to the word of God and every

Bible verse matters to us. And we need to recommit to what it means to worship

God centrally and then how our lives play out as image bearers created in the image of God and how that impacts us and how our theology comes at our fingertips when we walk out of church and into society and how we raise our kids, engage in politics, and so forth.

And I'm assuming one of the ways that we take the focus off of ourselves during this is that we realize that with these unconstitutional mandates and restrictions, especially when churches are being told they must shut their doors and this kind of thing, other people are being harmed.

Other people that either depend upon the body of Christ to reach out to them or even the lost who are being deprived of not only physical aid that the church often provides, but infinitely more important, the gospel.

They are being harmed outside of our walls, outside of our own particular enjoyment of worship.

So it's not just about us. Am I right? Yeah. Yeah. And there's a number of examples of this, of how the pandemic has caused far more collateral damage than the shutdowns have actually solved.

And it's clear in all this, you just look at the real -time data and shutdowns don't work. But the collateral damage has been significant.

I mean, the suicides have more than doubled in San Francisco in this last year alone.

And not only have they doubled just on their own compared to 2019, but they're also, the suicide rate is,

I think, twice as high as the coronavirus deaths in San Francisco.

So you have a suicide rate that's doubled, but you also have a suicide death count that is more than the coronavirus death count in San Francisco.

And so we, I mean, there's a number of antidotes that we can point out in all this. But I mean, those who are pastors, and Jeremy, you serve,

I believe, as the elder at your church. I serve as the deacon at my church. I've been in contact with churches across the nation, and I can't believe how many churches are shut down and the adverse effects that that is having on their own people and their own congregation.

Yeah, that's right. We do have a question for Jeremy from Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania.

Joseph says, how do we respond to those to whom we are trying to minister when they're going through trials and tribulations in their lives and they respond to us, you have not walked in my shoes.

You've never experienced what I am going through. You really have no say in this issue.

I hear this frequently. How do you respond to this? This is probably the number one question that we get from family, you know, as we deal with the military.

And it is the reason, not that question, but addressing questions like that is the reason we're structured the way we are as an organization.

The reason we have veterans and active duty service members and first responders as team leaders in our program, as instructors in our program, as those who facilitate it is because of that mentality.

Now, we understand that the Bible is sufficient, that I don't have to have experienced what you've experienced to apply scripture to your situation.

The silly example everyone uses is a doctor does not have to have had cancer to know how to treat your cancer.

But nonetheless, people do push back on that, particularly those in our community and the veteran community tend to push back on that.

And they'll say exactly that. You don't know what it's like to be me. You don't know what I've experienced. You don't know where I've been. And so that's why we approach everything from that testimonial standpoint.

I do know what it's like to be you. I have been where you've been. I've experienced many of the same things. And therefore, what

I'm going to share with you is not some theory. It is something that's been applied in my life.

And that breaks down the walls. So how does someone who doesn't have that experience minister to someone who's pushing back that way?

There are a lot of different ways. It depends on the relationship. Certainly, relationship is very important.

And how much leeway someone gives you to speak into their lives. My initial would be to say something like,

I haven't experienced it, but I want you to get help. And I know some people that have experienced it.

Will you at least look at what they are doing and what they've done? This is the reason our website is structured the way it is.

With HELPS, we're continuing to build that out. In fact, in the next couple of months, we're going to dedicate a significant portion of our website just to HELPS for folks like that.

It can also be taking the books that we've developed, the resources that we've developed. I've, of course, written my book, our founder,

Chad Robichaud, has written some books. But we've also written some smaller books dealing with resiliency. We have a small book called

The Truth About PTSD. And these are books, again, written from people, by people who have had these experiences.

And they're intended for people who are struggling with it now. So to whatever degree, someone will allow you to speak into their lives and to connect them with people who do know where they're coming from, do know what they've been through, and can point back to the scripture.

That's how I would address it. Sometimes it's just sending a link to a website. Sometimes it's handing a book.

I thought you might find this interesting. This is written by a guy who was in combat. Sometimes it's more than that.

It just depends on the situation. But acknowledge I haven't been there, but I know some people who have, and I'd love to connect you so you can get the help you need.

And Joseph, give me your full name and mailing address in South Central Pennsylvania, because you have won a free copy of March or Die Moving Forward When Your World Seems Out of Control.

And we want to thank Jeremy Stolnecker for providing these books today.

And also we want to thank our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com, for shipping out these books to our winners, and for always shipping out the winners in our audience the books and Bibles and other items they win by virtue of submitting questions.

We have a listener who I happen to know personally, who is a sergeant in the

United States Army. And he is also pastor of Wayside Gospel Chapel in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

And he has a shout out to you, or a word of tribute to you and the

United States Marines, even though he is United States Army. And I figured

I would read that tribute that he is offering while he is listening to this program.

He says, Respecting the Corps got personal when the 2nd

Marine Division and the 1st Marine Expedentiary Force forward both put through authorizations for the members of my unit that served under their command and control in Iraq from 2005 to 2006 to wear their shoulder sleeve insignia patches as combat patches, and then each awarded us the

Navy unit commendations, a ribbon with a high order of precedence.

Just an explanation why I care about Marines, even though I'm Army. I just figured I'd give you that little word of tribute to you and your fellow

Marines from a fellow soldier. And that's awesome.

Yeah, no, that's great. Thank you. And thank you for your service. Even if it was in the Army. Thank you for your service.

Thank you for that. It's awesome. I always say we get to make fun of each other, but no one outside of the military gets to make fun of any of us.

We have to go to our final break right now. It's going to be much more brief than the other breaks that you've been hearing. If you have a question,

I would strongly urge you to send it in immediately. And by the way, Sergeant Jack T.

Jeffrey, if you could give me your full mailing address also, because I'd like to have a book, a copy of this book,

March or Die, sent to you as well by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

So email me your mailing address and we'll have them ship that out to you as soon as possible. For anybody else who has a question, please send it in quickly because we'll be over before you know it.

chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com Don't go away.

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Welcome back. And Jeremy, we have a listener in Bangor, Maine, John in Bangor, Maine, who asks, how do you approach the subject whenever someone is going through a horrific trial in their life that this should not be about themselves as you have already stated without coming across as being insensitive or unsympathetic or empathetic or just being downright cruel?

We have learned a lesson by Job's so -called friends who may have been at times saying things that were very true, but sometimes the manner with which they said these things was unpleasing to God.

How do you tell our listeners to not be guilty of what Job's friends did? Yeah, that's a great question.

And you're absolutely right if you just walk up to someone who's struggling, particularly struggling deeply. I say struggling.

It could be the loss of a loved one. It could be, you know, so many of these things that folks are dealing with right now and say, hey, it's not about you.

You need to get over it. Well, that's not going to be received well. It begins again with relationship.

The reason I make that statement in the book and then spend, you know, 1 ,500 or 2 ,000 words explaining what

I mean is because I want to illustrate what that looks like and why that's important.

But you have to slow walk that. Again, when you're dealing with someone who's hurting, the first thing you need to do is weep with those who weep and spend time, you know, being with them.

I remember the very first time as a pastor, I was pastoring and a man in our church, his wife died tragically and suddenly it was horrific and there's so much involved there.

And I stood next to the casket with him before they closed it, before the ceremony or the service began.

I had no idea what to do, but he started crying and then he fell on the floor just uncontrollably weeping.

And all I could do was lay down next to him with my arm around him and let him weep. You need to comfort those who are broken.

But as you do that through relationship, you will have the opportunity to very kindly and very gently over time help elevate the view of the person who is hurting, who is struggling to a place beyond themselves.

This is not in the middle of the tragedy. This is as you're helping someone process through that. And relationship is the key.

If you don't have a relationship built on trust and being there when they need you to be there, you're going to have a very difficult time.

You address in your book a not to be defined by your situation.

One of the things that I do not like at all being a former drunk,

I do not like the model of AA and NA where people who have left those wicked and deadly behaviors behind them, they constantly in their meetings address themselves as an alcoholic, as a drug addict.

I disagree with that concept. Obviously, when the person is still involved in that sin unrepentantly, they should be honest enough with themselves and others and God that they are indeed still drunks.

But when you leave that stuff behind you, I don't think that you should be identifying or defining yourself that way.

How do you apply this to this specific theme of your book, moving forward when your world seems out of control?

This is something we could spend an entire another show on is this issue of identity. Identity really is the key to unlocking a lot of this for so many people.

The reason they're struggling is because they're identifying with their trauma. They are the survivor of an abuse.

They're identifying with a job that they no longer have. They're identifying with a relationship that no longer exists.

Their identity is wrapped up in something that they've done instead of who they are. And it's not until we realize that who

I am is a child of God. Who I am is in Christ. That is not tied to a job that I've done, to something that someone else has done to me.

It's as if we have a chain tied from us to the trauma, to the job, to the title, to the thing that prevents us from moving forward until we break that chain by understanding as a believer that our identity is in Christ, that it's about Him.

He is eternal. He has no beginning. He has no end. It's all about Him. He is sovereign and the other attributes that He has.

It's only then that we're able to move forward. Otherwise, why would we? We must move forward understanding that we are in Him, that He has a plan that's bigger than whatever it is we've been chained to.

And Gabriel, do you have a final question for Jeremy as brief as possible before we run out of time?

Are you asking me to one more question for Jeremy? Yes, yes. Yeah. Jeremy, I really like your answer on finding identity in Christ.

It seems like our culture really is having an identity crisis where we're identifying with what we do instead of who we are made in.

And everything from, I mean, the LGBT stuff all the way to Christians in the church.

How do you, how do we, you know, reach the world in this when they don't even identify as being created in the image of God?

Well, I mean, the simple answer would be evangelism. It's sharing the gospel, it's preaching the truth, and providing a contrast.

I think, again, we could spend a lot of time on this, but I think this is why so many Christians are struggling with what they see as the loss of America, because they're identifying first as Americans, which is something they've made up in their minds, probably, you know, from some era they didn't actually live in.

They identify first as Americans and second as Christians, and so now they're stuck, they don't know what to do.

We've got to flip that over, and as you mentioned earlier, our theology, what we believe about God should really seep from our fingers and from everything about us.

That's the only way we are going to lead others to truth. And we have a final listener question that we have time to read.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who wants to know, is your book appropriate for young teenagers?

Absolutely, yeah. It's, you know, it's very high -level telling of these stories, and I would, in fact, encourage it.

I have a lot of young people that I've given it to, and I think it's a good, because of the stories, it's interesting, and it drags them or leads them to the place where they can read the spiritual application.

Great. Well, Bobby, give me your full mailing address in Hartsdale, New York, and you have also won a free copy of March or Die, and we thank, once again,

Jeremy Stolnecker for providing us with these books, and also we thank CVBBS .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for shipping the books out. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have both of your websites again,

MightyOaksPrograms .org. MightyOaksPrograms .org is the website of Jeremy Stolnecker, and Jeremy Stolnecker also has a personal website,

JeremyStolnecker .com. JeremyStolnecker .com. That's Jeremy, S -T -A -L -N -E -C -K -E -R .com,

and also CrossPolitic .com. CrossPolitic .com is the website of our co -host today,

Gabriel Wrench, and we want to thank you both for being on this program today.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater