PCA Segregation, Samford U's DEI, SBC Abuse Nothing Burger, MacArthur's Last Lap

I want to say grace to you, all of you who are at the Shepherds Conference. For me, it's the highlight of the year, so you have to know my disappointment in coming to you through video. It really came down to being the only option because I haven't had such a speedy recovery as I hoped to have.

I feel great. I just lost a lot of strength by being seven weeks in the hospital. I mean, it's the hospital that can kill you. You can survive the illness if you can survive the hospital, then you've won on every level.

It took a toll on me physically, so I'm seeing physical therapists and trainers and trying to get back as soon as possible. I had the message on my heart, and I didn't want to lose the opportunity to give it to you.

So we printed it up in a booklet. The good news is you don't have to listen to me, and you don't have to take notes because you're going to get the sermon in a booklet form. I just know how much I miss being at Shepherds Conference.

I love the fellowship. I love the preaching. I especially love the singing, every aspect of it, and the camaraderie and fellowship of meeting people is always a highlight. So thank you for your prayers.

Thank you for your faithfulness and being a part of Shepherds Conference. I'll be praying for you and asking the Lord to bless in an unusual way and sharpen all of us for whatever the Lord has for us in the future.

I realize I'm on the last lap. That takes on a new meaning when you know you're on the short end of the candle. But I am all thanks and praise to God for everything He's allowed me to be a part of and everything He's accomplished by His Word in these years of ministry.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

MacArthur at the Shepherds Conference and the End of an Era

And with that, we start the Conversations That Matter podcast tonight. That is a message from Dr. John MacArthur, Pastor John MacArthur, at the Shepherds Conference from last week. My dad was actually there.

I grew up going to the Shepherds Conference quite a bit because my dad is a Master's Seminary graduate. I don't think when he started going to Master's Seminary, I know MacArthur had a name, but I don't think he thought of it, maybe expected it to blossom quite the way that it has where he is.

MacArthur has such an international ministry. But John MacArthur, from when I was a little kid, was always just the pastor of the church where my parents met and where my dad went to seminary and was a deacon.

My uncle's a member there. He was kind of like the pastor of the church back in California, back home. And so this probably has an impact on me in ways it doesn't with everyone having a little bit of a closer attachment than someone who's just listened to him.

But look, if you're someone who's listened to a lot of John MacArthur, which I know many of you have, this hits you. This makes you reflect and pause and consider to see this stalwart of the faith, this Bible teacher who has been so influential over the course of over five decades, look very frail.

And I know he was in the hospital for about seven weeks. He had a heart condition, a heart surgery last summer. And it's, I mean, he says he's on his last lap. He's not long for this world, no matter what.

I mean, the best case scenario, he doesn't have a lot of time left. And, you know, there's so many thoughts that were coming to my head. I'll probably have more and share more at whatever point he passes, if the Lord hasn't taken me first.

But there's a few things I did want to say. I do think that there's a leadership vacuum that's already emerging. And when John MacArthur does finally pass away, I think that's going to be felt much more.

We're going to get to the Steve Lawson apology in a minute, but Steve Lawson likely would have been the interim pastor if it had not been discovered that he was involved in that extramarital affair that he was involved in.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to say that, you know, he's like everything was riding on him for that institution or evangelical Christianity, reformed evangelical Christianity as a whole. He's a little younger.

He's still a little bit. He's an older guy. But with that moral failure and now John MacArthur's kind of aging, there are guys, obviously, but guys who can fill those shoes, guys of that stature, guys who are going to be the Bible teachers that hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people turn to and listen to.

I'm not seeing others come up behind them. Now, God's going to build his church. I think God's going to do things. And I know many solid good Bible teachers on local levels. But I guess all I'm trying to say is that there's a fading of an era, an era where I think technology of radio played a very prominent role in disseminating the Bible.

I think that's still going to play a role, but it did boost these certain churches. MacArthur was one of those churches. And then the conference circuit, of course, being another big booster. And I think the conference circuit is starting to take a hit as well.

There's still conferences, but they're not the same. And people who attend know they can sense it. It's like it just doesn't seem the same. A lot of them. And of course, R .C. Sproul died in I think it was twenty seventeen.

John Piper, of course, has been somewhat marginalized by the woke stuff because he's he he went somewhat at least on the woke train. And he's said other things that I think have made him fall out of favor.

T .G. T4G doesn't have their conferences anymore. You have the nine marks guys, but they've also fallen out of favor because of the compromise on wokeness and the covid. And I mean, twenty twenty really did expose a lot of guys.

And John MacArthur has been able to weather all these storms in a way. He's been astonishingly consistent and just has his priorities, it seems like, in the right place. He's not a perfect man. I'm not saying that there are guys who seem to think that he's not a perfect man and he would tell you he's not a perfect man.

No one is except Jesus Christ. He hasn't been consistent on every single issue. I understand he's a man you're talking about over five decades of ministry. I think the one thing one of the things at least I do like about him is when situations arose like the covid situation, the situations that maybe did not necessarily fit the way that he was doing things before he adjusted.

And he led the church through some very hard matters. And and I'm just very grateful for him. I just think that I would love to see other guys kind of rise up and not as pastors, not just be guys who weigh in on cultural things or or I mean, I don't I want people to weigh in on cultural things.

I've said that before, like the expository teaching alone where you don't actually make application that can be very blinding because you need to apply it into a context. But it's also easy to have an imbalance where you're so focused on things happening around you that you forget to actually teach the Bible and put in the study necessary to do so.

And that's one of the things about John MacArthur. He labored to understand what the Bible says and then to explain it for people in the pews. And I think he he also did application. My brother said not long ago that I thought it was funny.

He goes, you know, something like the best version of John MacArthur is like the kind of like ticked off, get off my lawn boomer, John MacArthur, when he's when he's unscripted and he just takes an aside in a sermon that he wasn't planning.

And I happen to agree. I think his instincts are so good. And sometimes even, you know, when he when he has a particular theology on, you know, for example, like I'm thinking of like Romans 13 or something and how it applies and then a situation arises, his instincts kick in and there it's gold.

It's sometimes I think better than even some of the things he's preached previous to actually reacting to a situation. So that's just some some praise, I suppose, for John MacArthur, but some sadness and some fondness for kind of the situation he's in.

Obviously, he's not dead yet, so he still has a little ways to go, at least. But he's looking frail and weak from that video that he didn't even preach. He, I guess, wrote a sermon out and then they published it.

I have not seen that. I don't think it's available beyond those who attended the Shepherds Conference. So, yeah, all that to say, we are entering, I think, a new era and it's a generational thing, too.

I mean, he's a boomer. And I think the boomer era is coming to a close, even even though we have a boomer president. But even with institutions like the church, the conference circuit in Christianity, the Christian industry publishing, there's a new generation that's going to be taking the taking the bull by the horns.

And it remains to be seen what that's going to look like. I find it interesting that Shepherds Conference, T4G, I would say even G3 have overall have not seemed to really raise up a lot of younger guys.

They've I'm not saying they haven't tried to do that, but it hasn't really taken off. It hasn't caught. And I don't know exactly why that is. I have some theories about why that might be. But we are going to need Bible teachers and something I've been thinking about for my own life, too, and my own goals and direction.

Do I is this something that I want that I foresee myself focusing on a lot more and maybe less on some of the the cultural matters out there? Because I think there is just this great need. I want to focus on cultural matters.

I'm not saying not that I wouldn't, but but obviously, like, you know, like my work has been this, you know, against the waves, Christian order in a liberal age. It just came out. I think it's super important that you get it.

But I'm just you know, it's hard when you see like multiple, multiple needs out there. The Lord is going to figure it out, though. That's the thing. The Lord is going to figure all of this out. We just got to be faithful to him, figure out how to invest the gifts and talents he's given us for the best way in the best way possible.

So. All right. Yeah. Cook, Cook, Cook, I guess that's your name. Cook Patrol. OK, well, the Master Seminary has raised up a lot of young men. I know that I totally realize that there's a lot of young men out there who are pastoring.

But my point is there you don't have the guys with the stature and the leadership and recognition and all of that of someone like a John MacArthur. And maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it's it's better to have a lot of local pastors who are able to do this kind of thing.

And that actually might be a healthier thing in a way. But it's situational where we're we're in a world right now where people very much look to the center still. And so there's still going to be there still seems to be celebrity pastor types who fill this gap.

But are they going to be of the caliber of John MacArthur? That's what I'm trying to say. That's my whole point. So that's OK. There's no good celebrity pastors, says Cook Patrol. Well, it's it's certainly sounds like a pejorative.

I don't think, you know, maybe I could use a better word than celebrity, famous pastors, pastors that have wide acclaim and wide reach. That's all I'm talking about. I'm not saying it in the negative sense necessarily.

All right. Well, there are some other comments. What about Voti? Yeah, Voti is great. I have nothing negative to say about Voti Bachum. I love Voti. He has been a great friend to an encourager to me. And so is John MacArthur, by the way.

I have somewhere on my shelf some of the things that that he's written to me. And I just I cherish those things. So let's see. How about Moller? No, no, we want people who are principled, not people who are weather veins.

And Moller is a bit of a weather vane. He has some good things he says on the briefing. But, you know, if you go watch any of my videos, I have a whole playlist, I think, on Moller on my YouTube channel.

And, you know, start going through that and you'll see Moller's in the midst right now of trying to, it seems like, contradict things that he pushed 10 years ago. Oh, yeah, we're going to talk about the PCA in a minute.

Meg's asking. Yeah, we're going to get there. But I wanted to just kind of think about this for a moment and and just realize that we're turning a page here. And I think that it's a significant moment in a way.

And maybe this will cause you, if you're looking at going into the ministry, maybe, you know, John MacArthur is the kind of guy that can really inspire you to, because I really think he was and is, I'm saying was, I shouldn't say that because he is still around.

He still is a good teacher of the Bible, a good expositor of scripture. I think his heart so often, I think, is in the right place. And I understand for those closer to the big institutions, which he does run big institutions or he's been been in charge of big institutions, you can get kind of blackbilled.

There's all these internal politics. It gets frustrating. There's people who are riding coattails and all of that. Yes, that exists in big institutions. But I think MacArthur was in it for the right reasons.

And if anything, he gave the benefit of the doubt to people to assume that they were in it for the right reasons, too, with the people around him. So. All right, yes, people are asking about Steve Lawson, we're going to get into some more topics, so thank you for letting me kind of relish that point.

Maybe we'll just do that next. Is that I wasn't going to do it next, but let's just do it next. So Steve Lawson just put out this afternoon a I don't know if you could even call it apology, but I'll read it to you.

It's a expression of repentance. And this is what it says. Says it is with a shattered heart that I write this letter, I have sinned grievously against the Lord, against my wife, my family and against countless numbers of you by having a sinful relationship with a woman, not my wife.

I am deeply broken that I betrayed and deceived my wife, devastated my children, brought shame to the name of Christ, reproach upon his church and harm to many ministries. You may wonder why I have been silent and largely invisible since the years of my news, sorry, of my sin became known.

I have needed the time to search my own soul to determine that my repentance is real. I alone am responsible for my sin. I have confessed my sin to the Lord, to my wife and to my family, and I've repented of it.

I have spent the past month searching my heart to discover the roots of my sin and mortifying them by the grace of God. I hate my sin, weep over my sin and have turned from it. My sin carries enormous consequences and I'll be living with those for the rest of my life.

Over the years, many have looked to me for spiritual guidance and I failed you. I beg for your forgiveness. I have been undergoing extensive counseling for the last five months to face. Sorry to face the hard questions I need to address, I have dealt with sin issues that have been painfully exposed to my heart.

I have submitted myself in weekly accountability to two pastors and two elders of a local congregation who have shepherded my soul. I have also under the oversight of an accountability team who monitor my progress and give me wise counsel in the decisions that I have to make.

I am growing and graced, reading and absorbing the word of God, putting it into practice, praying and meeting with other believers. I am involved in the life of the church, attending and participating in prayer meetings, Sunday school, the worship service and taking communion weekly.

I am being fed the word in the midweek Bible study. Please pray for my spiritual growth into Christ likeness as I follow him moment by moment during this recovery season. I am grateful for the unmerited grace of God in the gospel to extend his full forgiveness to me.

Again, I ask for your forgiveness as well. While I continue to do the hard work of soul searching repentance, I do not intend to make further public comments for the foreseeable future. Please pray for the Lord's mercy and grace as I seek to make right the deeply wrong sins I have committed against my wife and family and that in his time and way, he will bring about redemption and restoration in our marriage for his glory.

Steve Lawson. Of course, I liked it and retweeted it. I don't want to say much about this. I really more just want to give you the news. You can pick apart different things and say, why wasn't it this way or that way?

Or there's really only two things I want to say. The first is, I'm really glad that Steve Lawson made the statement. And I think that, you know, I take him at his word that this is genuine repentance.

He's glorifying God in it. He's not vying to come back. He's not making excuses. It seems very sincere and I have no reason not to take it that way. The other thing I wanted to say, and this is the only caution that I want to give, and I debated whether to say this at all, but one of the reasons I started the podcast a little late was I was actually reading quotes from Cotton Mather's journal and some other Puritans, and I wanted to just check myself and just remind myself, you know, I don't know if Steven Lawson's getting this from the Puritans writings because I know he was big on them, but there is, in my opinion, a very odd strain that developed in the Puritans of, I suppose, of introspection, navel gazing, you know, examining your repentance to really make sure that it's truly sincere this time.

And there's some room for this. I don't want to take that and cast it out completely and say you should examine your fruit, but that there should be an encouragement in that, right? As you look at your fruit, you're encouraged that I am in Christ.

I don't know why repentance for sin in the life of a Christian, when they sin, I don't know why that repentance has to look different than the repentance that exists at the point of conversion, right?

At the point of conversion, there's an immediate repentance. You don't wait, at least you shouldn't wait, for long periods of time to really make sure it's really genuine. You just do it. You just turn from your sin, turn to Christ.

And even an imperfect, if you want to call it that, repentance, a repentance that doesn't recognize every little sin but knows that there's a need for Christ and that you've done wrong is considered legitimate repentance.

And for some reason, there is a strain in conservative reform Christianity that sees repentance as a process that you have to, I guess, test and figure out whether it's genuine or not. And only time can really tell.

From an outside perspective, that may be true. Like, I don't know. Someone could say anything, right? And there may not be any sincerity behind it at all, or the spirit of God may not be working. I suppose that's true.

But I think a lot of people were wondering why Steve Lawson, who was such a public figure, had such a big platform, why he was able to go to the elders of the church—I guess he's not at that church, but the church that he was at—and admit his failure and resign from public life and then take the steps to repent and so forth.

But he couldn't make a public statement about any of this at that point. Like, he couldn't say something similar to this, or at least even if it's incomplete, just say, I've sinned grievously. You know, I know many look up to me for spiritual leadership, and you need to be warned that this is not something, in my example, to follow, right?

That probably would have saved a lot of the drama and a lot of the consternation and just speculations and everything else that took place over the last few months. But I think the key—the reason it probably didn't happen is embedded in this, that there is this big emphasis on ensuring that the repentance is legitimate.

And so anyways, I was looking in Cotton Mather's journal and just typed in repentance just to see what he said. And I saw a similar spirit in there. There's like this suspicion that it's not real and you just really have to test it and so forth.

And I don't know, should I read some of those?

I don't know.

I don't know if I want to spend more time. I feel like I've already spent too much time on this, to be honest. But that's the only thing I wanted to kind of warn people about is just be careful of that example.

There's nothing wrong with immediate repentance, even if it's imperfect and telling—or incomple—I don't know what you want to call it. Like you don't see every facet of your sin, but you know you've done wrong and you're going to warn people against what you've just done.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And saying you're sorry to those who've looked up to you and that kind of thing. So I want to encourage that kind of thing. I'm really glad, though, that Steve Lawson did.

It's better late than never, right? I'm really glad that he made this statement and we should be obviously praying for him. I hope, as I'm even saying this and you're listening, that you can pray for him right now, that there will be restoration in his marriage and that the Lord would do a work here, because frankly, this is a huge, it's a huge stain.

I hate to say it. It's, you know, it's going to be a true—in eternity, it's going to be a true stain. It's a trophy of grace that God forgave this, but the reputation of ministries, the church, Christianity in general was very much hurt by this.

And so, you know, the Lord in his perfect providence knew this would happen, and it will, I think, will use it and is using it. But all right. Well, I don't know why I keep focusing on KUK Patrol's comments, but they're just.

Catching my eye.

He says, KUK Patrol says, just repent, insert Nike logo. Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. I guess he could have just done that in two words. His was probably delayed due to his ride spread reach, says Justin Seeger.

Could be, could be. He wanted to be careful with what he said. I mean, you do want to be careful, but something like this, you want to be pretty quick on the draw, too. You want, I think, people to be warned.

I mean, that's what Scripture says, right? Like when someone of this caliber, when someone who's a pastor fails, the other, the people who are under that authority need to be warned so that they don't jeopardize themselves.

As well.

Is Johnny, I don't know, I haven't, is Johnny Hunt real when he's going after a 600K a year salary from the SBC in court? I've covered this before. My understanding is, yes, but I, yeah, that, I don't know if there's a recent development.

In this.

Someone else was saying something about Johnny Hunt, and I'm not sure, yeah, I guess it was Smog Wolf. Yeah, I understand that's accurate. Josh says, I think the frustration is that he taught on this particular sin for years while he was doing it.

Yeah, that's for me too. Not much reflection needed. Yeah, that is a huge, huge, it's a warning to us. We should take that very seriously, but it is a huge disappointment. The people around him were parsing whether or not he had a real moral failure.

I know that was going on for weeks. It took a while to get to the bottom of it. No, it, that's true though. People were parsing it, trying to say like, well, maybe he can return because no one was clear on what the sin was and it created a lot of problems.

If he had just come out immediately, probably said, admitted what he had admitted to the elders initially, but framed it for a larger audience, it would have been probably much.

Better.

So whether or not, you know, if he's sincere or not, like that would have been good for those under his authority to at least know that. But, but praise God that it does sound like he is sincere.

All right.

Well, we, well, let's get off of this. There's a few other items that I wanted to talk about. So someone asked me about this. This is a post from Juan Sanchez who he's, he's a TGC guy. I would not, I do not think of him as like an SPC conservative, but he was, he's for the law amendment.

He actually thinks like men should be pastors. So on that issue, you can say, I guess he's conservative on the other woke stuff. Not so much, but he had this long post. This is actually now, how old is this?

This is from, oh goodness. Oh, all right, here we go. May 4th. So this is a while ago, but I, I didn't cover it. I've been saving it. And really it comes down to, there was a dust up with the credentials committee for the.

SPC.

They determine whether a church stays or goes. I'm putting it, I guess I'm cutting to the chase here. I mean, that, that is kind of what they do. But to put it in their terms, they determine whether someone is in friendly cooperation, whether a church is in friendly cooperation with the Baptist faith message.

And so their job is to it should be to basically kick out churches that have women pastors and so forth. And it turns out they're not doing their job. That's the bottom line. They're just not doing their job.

They're still pastors in the SPC. They say they're pastors, at least who are females. This is an ongoing issue. And it doesn't seem like the credentials committee has a lot of interest in really going after.

This.

So someone asked me, like, are they going to try to do the law amendment again, the law amendment, meaning, you know, giving the credentials committee more, I guess, latitude to to, to get kind of like they have with the issues of sexual abuse and quote unquote racism.

They have a latitude to kick churches out for this. It's easier for them to do it now. I, Frank, I got to be honest with you. I don't really care that much. The reason I don't care that much, even though it would be a symbolic victory if you ever got something like that past is personnel is policy.

And as long as conservatives keep losing the elections for the president, the committees are going to be stacked with guys who will not faithfully apply these standards. So that's, that's the real issue to me.

Now, it would be great if you could get someone, let's say in the SPC was a conservative and make sure that on the ground, the reality is you already have a mechanism that will make it easier to root out churches that have women pastors.

So I'm for something like that. But the reality is you also have to win elections in tandem with something like that. But, um, there is a, uh, uh, Juan Sanchez is saying they, they want to try again. They want to try the law amendment kind of thing again.

So that's really the long and short of this. Um, and says, please join us in our effort. And of course, Nate Aitken is the first guy here. HB Charles. Uh, I don't know if I recognize any of these other guys, not really, but at least those two guys have, you know, that's, you have it.

What do you have is a, an alliance between what I would call more kind of moderate SBC guys and you're part of the Kentucky coalition. And then you got your, your diehard conservatives, like the William Wolf kind of guy coming together to try to support a measure like this.

And I support it, but, um, I don't know. I don't know, um, what would happen. It may, maybe they'll get it passed. Maybe they'll, they'll, they'll actually get it passed next time. But someone asked me about it and there's your answer.

I guess there are people interested in trying this again. Now, of course, the, the latest news, Liam Adams here, who's reports on the SBC quite it was either Tennessee and let's see, yeah, the Tennessee, I knew it reports on the SBC quite a bit.

And he posts this article, what he says is, um, in the little, uh, the, I guess, description of the article, he says a historic federal inquiry into abuse in the nation's largest Protestant denomination is officially over after yielding just one conviction, the DOJ notified the SBC.

It's not pursuing additional criminal charges against the convention or its entities. So what a big nothing burger. Here's the story from the Tennessee and what a big nothing burger. Uh, the SBC is basically going into jeopardizing his financial situation and going into potential bankruptcy over this issue.

And they had a federal investigation and, uh, Matt queen, Southern Baptist pastor and seminary professor pleaded guilty to lying to federal authorities. And that's, that's it. I guess that's the only, the only thing they found in the SBC.

Um, and I mean, this is under the Biden administration. So goodness gracious. Uh, we went through all of that for this. So what a big nothing burger. What a big waste of time. What a big waste of resources.

Uh, and the SBC liberals should feel very bad, very bad about themselves indeed for making the convention go through all of this. And of course, uh, people like is it CBN or sorry, um, uh, center for Baptist leadership, leadership, uh, CBL put out an article about this and I saw John Whitehead was weighing in on this.

And so there's some guys that are analyzing this, but that's my basic takeaway. It's like, what a big nothing burger never listened to these people again, ever. That's my, that's my takeaway. Do not like these people have shown complete imprudence.

They're willing to take their denomination and sink it on an iceberg over, uh, a, over scarecrows. And, uh, and so many, I mean, it was the top leadership was all for this. Uh, this was, you know, we have to do something now.

Okay.

Well, there you go.

The SBC Abuse Investigation and the Law Amendment

All right.

Sanford, um, Sanford university now Sanford university apparently, uh, is, I understand a Christian university. Someone sent me this. So, um, let's see here. Sanford university. It is a Christian. Uh, I don't think it's okay.

So it is private. It's not with a denomination, but it was founded by Baptists. So it's a, it's a Southern Christian university and they are doubling down on their DEI. So DEI statement added to club constitutions.

And this is a little old too. This is from about a month ago, but it says the week of February 17th, an email from the student involvement office was sent to all advisors and presidents of an on-campus organizations.

The email mandated all clubs and organizations to update their constitutions to include a strict stance and non-discrimination in clubs. And so this is how they're painting it by the way, that they're trying to frame it like, oh, it's a non-discrimination policy, not a DEI policy.

All right.

This is happening all over the place, by the way, all you gotta be careful of these companies, even that are like, oh, we're getting rid of our DEI. But are you really, are you just relabeling it? That's the question I have.

All right. The last sentence of the statement reads as a faith-based institution, the university is exempted from certain laws and regulations concerning discrimination. The news change comes after president Trump threatened schools and colleges across the United States to end diversity programs or risk having federal aid pulled by administration.

Although Sanford may potentially be held to uphold these changes, the constitutional modifications maintain support of inclusion. Well, that's the I in DEI. Jamal Mathis, a coordinator of multicultural students supporting gospel choir advisor, believes this change is paving the way for diversity and continuing to support faith-based mindset on campus.

I believe this change will serve as a reminder of the diverse nature of our campus. In my personal experience with campus organizations, even prior to the change, I have witnessed much diversity and inclusivity.

Well, there you have two of the, you have the D and the I in membership and programming of our student organizations. And I'm excited to see how much that may continue to grow. President Trump efforts to halt DEI initiatives have been temporarily blocked.

So basically the way this is framed is like it's Sanford University versus the Trump administration. And from what I understand, I think it was a student or someone connected to students, at least who sent it to me.

It was like, they don't quote any of the people who are actually at the university opposing this. And so they're forcing student clubs into this policy. And the trustees of, from what I understand from the email that I received about this, some of these trustees are some, I guess, Southern Baptist names that are somewhat well-known in that region.

Now I was looking at this list and I'm going to be honest with you. I don't know if I recognize anyone on this list of the trustee committee here, but if you live in that region, perhaps you would recognize some of these guys as SBC guys who have some clout in the local associations and so forth.

So I figured I get emails on things all the time, but this is one of the ones that I was like,.

You know what?

I'll do a solid for the guys in that area who are wanting to fight this kind of thing and at least give some attention to it. So there it is. And okay, the other thing I was going to let you know about is the mission to North America in the PCA.

They're doubling down. They're doubling down on apparently this. If you remember from just a few weeks ago, the president of the mission to North America, the director, I guess, of the mission to North America spoke at an event that was racially segregated and they tried to say it wasn't.

And I went through a whole thing. I'm like, yeah, it kind of was. And so mission to North America after having to apologize last month for promoting things that told illegal aliens how to gain pathways to citizenship, although they didn't use that phrase, right?

They use undocumented migrants or whatever. They framed it from the left. But now they're issuing this mission to North America has recently received media attention on several issues, including our national coordinator's participation at an affinity ministry event hosted at a PCA church in Oakland, California.

The organizers of this event did not prohibit or turn away anyone from attending. I have questions, but we, the permanent committee of MNA. So where's the inclusivity, guys? You didn't turn any away. Is that if that's the new standard, could I do if I, so I shouldn't probably use myself as the example.