March 2, 2016 Show with David Engelsma on his book “The Reformed Faith of John Calvin: The Institutes in Summary”

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Now here's our host Chris Arnton Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming

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This is Chris arms and your host of iron sharpens iron Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on the second day of March 2016

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I'm very excited about today's program Because a number of iron sharpens iron listeners had strongly urged me to interview our guest today and I'm delighted to have

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Finally the opportunity to do so his name is dr. David J angles ma and He is a professor emeritus of theology at the

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Theological School of the Protestant Reformed Churches in Granville Michigan he is the author of a number of books and today

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We are discussing a very thorough 455 page work that he has written titled the reformed faith of John Calvin the

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Institutes in summary, and if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for dr

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Angles ma the email address is Chris Arntz and at gmail .com That's CH RIS AR n

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Z n at gmail .com And it is indeed my honor and privilege to welcome you to iron sharpens iron for the very first time.

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Dr David angles ma Appreciate the opportunity to discuss an important aspect of the truth of God's Word with you

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And I am looking forward to it as well and just to let our listeners know dr Angles ma will be on for the first hour of the program

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Until 5 p .m. Eastern Time, then we will be followed by Bill Blank -shan or blank scan.

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He will probably have to correct my pronunciation of his name But he is going to be discussing

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At the top of the second hour his book you will be made to care the war on faith family and your freedom to believe

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Which he co -authored with Eric Erickson and then finally to close out the second hour of the program

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We will have my friend and first pastor Mike Gay Dosh the founder and director of solid ground

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Christian books in Birmingham, Alabama And he is going to be discussing new things that are coming hot off the press at solid ground

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Christian books to edify The people of God and the solid ground Christian books is one of our sponsors of iron sharpens iron radio

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Let me now on the air anyway, although you've met off -air over the phone

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Before the broadcast let me on the air introduce you to my co -host Who has again returned to annoy me in the studio?

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Yes, the Reverend buzz Taylor Buzz this is radio so you can't just shake your head you have to say hello

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I thought they would hear things rattling then and yes, you are stuck with me for the full two hours. Yes, and Dr.

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Engel Smith if you'd like to greet buzz our co -host today Okay, let me make that correction for the rest of the program, but I'm sure judging by your work you do deserve one and It's my pleasure to discuss something that is very important to me in my faith

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That's the one of my greatest heroes of the faith John Calvin the 16th century reformer well,

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I also want to let our listeners know about a radio program that airs globally called the reformed witness hour and I know that You brother angles might have been affiliated

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With that program that is one at least one of the oldest radio broadcasts still airing

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I Believe it's the 75th anniversary of the reformed witness hour Well, if you could tell our listeners about that broadcast brother angles, ma that is a

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Program that has been on the air for many years. I don't recall Now exactly what year it began but first speaker on that Program was the theologian who was instrumental in the formation of the protestant reformed churches in Which I am a pastor in 1924

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Herman Hoeksema for many years. He was the sole speaker on that radio broadcast and It has continued for as you suggest about 75 years without Interruption and has obtained by this time

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Good audience, I think and I have spoken on that broadcast myself more than once Yes that you have rotating pastors from the

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Protestant reformed churches serving as the host of that program, correct? That's correct. The main speaker is a man who is serving as Missionary of the

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Protestant Reformed Churches The Reverend William Brinesma, I believe is the main speaker but there are other pastors who take their turns to help out with a broadcast and for anybody listening who would like to find out how they can listen to the reformed witness hour on the either local radio stations where they live or On the internet you can listen to the program go to reformed witness hour dot o -r -g

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That's reformed witness hour dot o -r -g and I am honored to have them also as a client of mine in my

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Radio agency cruciform media and I'm very delighted to serve as their agent

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But it is an honor as I said to have you on this program John Calvin as you are fully aware brother angles ma is a very controversial figure in the church many people will

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Claim that they loathe this this figure from history that he is a horrible tyrannical figure bloodthirsty and so on who

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Denied all kinds of Things that are braced but embraced by Bible -believing

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Christians And so on and these caricatures are really just slanderous lies

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About this great man of faith aren't they? Yes, they are John Calvin like his predecessor

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Martin Luther To whom Calvin more than once expressed his indebtedness proclaimed the gospel of justification by faith alone apart from the works of man himself and the gospel of salvation by grace alone apart from the will of the sinner which implies that salvation has its origin in God's eternal decree of election which decree is

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Accompanied by a decree of reprobation and it's especially that that has made

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Calvin the hated figure that you rightly describe him as being by many today

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I'm struck by what you just said in connection with what the

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Secular historian will Durant had to say first about the work of Calvin for which

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Calvin is best known his institutes of the Christian religion will Durant that worldly historian wrote it is the most eloquent fervent lucid logical influential and Terrible work in all the literature of the religious revolution which is praise mixed with condemnation

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Mm -hmm, and then he went on to say that he would Forever find it

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Difficult if not impossible to have any liking for Calvin himself.

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And the reason was Calvin's doctrine as Durant thought

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Calvin's doctrine of predestination Which of course is the Apostle Paul's doctrine of predestination in Romans 8 and 9

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So he is a controversial and hated figure

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And he was a man who really? desired to just spend His life until he went home to glory just studying the scriptures and writing about them and so on he had no personal

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Desire or motivation to be a leader of any kind in the church, but was really coerced by a colleague in ministry feral correct to To come to Geneva to serve in the post where he was

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Observation about Calvin you're exactly right Calvin described himself as enemies would have laughed at that But Calvin was if anything honest

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He described himself as a timid soul in the context of what you have just said and his intention was to be a quiet scholar

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Busying himself with Humanist studies, but he underwent a dramatic conversion in his mid -twenties to Protestantism faith in God according to the

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Protestant religion became an object of persecution by the

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Roman Catholic authorities in France and Was fleeing from that persecution came to Geneva Switzerland and there a red -headed dynamo of a preacher by the name of William fell spotted

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Calvin and recognized in the providence of God the abilities that Calvin had for the

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Christian faith and threatened him With the curse of God if he would go his own way and pursue his quiet humanist

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Helping proclaim the gospel in Geneva with friends like that who needs enemies, right?

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As Calvin put it frankly one time contrary to Calvin's wishes

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God thrust me into the game and What was actually his role and duty in Geneva Switzerland when he arrived there and remained there when

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Calvin first took up his duties there he was what we might call an associate pastor of Pharaoh for a couple of years in the late 1530s and then he and Pharaoh Pharaoh also was

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Solid fearless proponent of the gospel of grace Protestantism we would say and they came under Attack by the authorities in Geneva church and state were closely allied in those days for their insistence that the church had the right to exercise discipline upon Those who lived impenitently in sin the rulers of Geneva did not want that power to be

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Exercised by the authorities of the church, so they banished pharaoh and Calvin from Geneva for a few years

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About three years as I recall Calvin worked with another reformer by the name of Martin Busser in Strasbourg and Then Geneva was falling apart in every possible way and the leaders of the city

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Discovered that in fact, they very much needed Calvin's influence So they invited him back.

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He was hesitant to go because he knew what difficulties he would face in Geneva, but Yielded to the call as from the call of God and then became

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So I shouldn't say soul, but the leading pastor of the churches in Geneva Pharaoh did not return

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Calvin came back by himself and Became the leading pastor for the next almost 30 years in Geneva And let's get to the

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The primary topic of the discussion, which is his institutes

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More fully known as the institutes of Christian religion As our theme today is your book the reformed faith of John Calvin the institutes in summary and Perhaps even before addressing the institutes in Summary for those of our listeners who are not reformed

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I think I would guess that most of my listeners are theologically reformed or Calvinistic, but I know that I do have listeners of all varying varieties of Religion I even have

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Muslim listeners on occasion who email questions for my guests we have

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Roman Catholic listeners are many in listeners and So on I even remember years ago.

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I remember a member of the unification church or known as the moonies Calling during the program when it was a live call -in show, but In a nutshell

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I have described in summary the reformed faith the

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Theology that teaches more clearly than any other that God alone sinners God alone saves sinners

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Because sinners cannot even help save themselves. Do you have any other? Definition that you'd like to add to that.

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I Think that expresses the heart of the reformed faith as John Calvin summarized that faith in the institutes.

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There is something possibly misleading about The title that I have given to my book with reference to Calvin's institutes

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The reformed faith of John Calvin in a way it's accurate But in a way it could be misleading and since your audience and I'm happy to hear it is as varied as it is

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Let me comment on that Calvin intended the institutes of the

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Christian religion to be The Instruction and that's what institutes

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Literally means in the Latin instruction in the Christian faith in the

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Christian religion and still today That's what the institutes is and does it is

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Clear expression of The Christian faith at its heart the

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Christian faith has revealed in the Bible But of course Calvin understood and explained the

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Christian faith of the Bible according to what we today would regard as the reformed faith and distinction from various other purported forms of the faith so that my title is

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Accurate and descriptive of what one will find when he reads this summary the reformed faith of John Calvin but actually it's the

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Christian faith as Protestantism purely confesses the Christian faith

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And How would obviously we have to abbreviate these things summarize them, but how would

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Calvin? Stand in contrast to the other two of the great reformers

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Martin Luther and York Zing Lee I Think basically he would he would be an agreement with Zwing Lee except for Zwing Lee's doctrine of the sacraments

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Zwing Lee's doctrine of the sacraments was that the sacraments are

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Memorials of the Death and saving work of Jesus Christ Calvin Attributed to the sacraments that like the preaching of the word they are means by which the

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Holy Spirit gives and works Salvation in the sense of strengthening the faith of the believing child of God and Bestowing the riches of the salvation of God upon one who partakes of the sacraments in faith

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But as far as Luther is concerned Calvin would have Calvin would have been in basic agreement with Luther In many of the main points of doctrine of the

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Christian faith Justification by faith alone and sanctification and Predestination bondage of the will

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Bondage of the will especially that's a theme that Calvin emphasizes in his

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Institutes but he would have disagreed again with Luther's doctrine of the sacraments and as much as Luther viewed the sacraments the sacrament of the

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Lord's Supper in particular as bestowing upon everyone who partakes the body and the blood of Jesus Christ Calvin had his own distinctive doctrine of the sacraments with regard to and in opposition to Luther's doctrine as well and Going now to the

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Institutes of Christian religion that Calvin is most famous for obviously the book title itself

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May be an intimidating one for your average Christian to pick up especially in today's day and age when your average modern evangelical is more quickly drawn to fluffy and sweet sounding titles, but what was the actual purpose that Calvin Wrote the

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Institutes and the circumstances involving him writing them. It's a pity

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That what you say is true that so many professing Christians, and I'm afraid even professing

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Calvinistic Christians I Afraid to tackle the

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Institutes of the Christian religion, but I recognize that and that underlay the purpose of my writing this summary of the

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Institutes not only Is the content of Calvin's Institutes intimidating to many today?

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But the size of the book as it ended up The summary that you wrote is four hundred and fifty -five pages than these the

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Institutes must be pretty Very long with three volumes. They typically come in correct Calvin had what an

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English translation today amounted to over 1 ,500 pages and Yeah, it's translated and published in English in two thick volumes.

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I'm afraid that when many Reformed layman and even report busy reformed pastors look at those two volumes on the shelves of their bookstore

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Much as they might be attracted to reading it they're scared off by the size of Volume so I intended to remedy that situation by this 1 ,500 -page summary which

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I am confident gives the Essence of the entirety of Calvin's Institutes in a manageable

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Form for readers who otherwise would be put off by the size of the Institutes But your question was what is the nature of the

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Institutes when Calvin originally wrote? his Institutes he had several purposes with it and The first was simply to give instruction to Protestant believers as to the right

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Orthodox Christian faith of Scripture Keep in mind that the first edition of the

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Institutes was written in 1536 as I recall and that would have been some 20 years only some 20 years after the

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Protestant Reformation began in Germany in 1517, so there was a crying need for believers to know and understand the main points of doctrine of the

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Christian faith as the Protestant Church Understood and explained the Christian faith.

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That was one basic Purpose of Calvin as the title itself of the book indicates instruction in the

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Christian religion But another definite purpose of Calvin with the

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Institutes was to defend Protestant Protestant faith against Roman Catholicism on the one hand and anabaptism on the other hand both of which

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Calvin regarded as erring concerning Truth of the

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Christian faith and Then he also wanted the book to be help to those who were studying for the ministry in the

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Protestant churches that was also a purpose of Calvin with the Institutes and What value would you say

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Would the average Christian obviously the more? studious Person who is in seminary or perhaps already is a pastor or a seminary?

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professor would have great Value in studying these even if they don't

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Before reading them agree with the contents because of the historical magnitude of the

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Institutes, but when we have things like The three forms of unity in the

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Westminster Catechism in the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith in the Savoy Declaration and smaller documents that summarize

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Christian faith what is in your opinion the value today for the average

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Christian of studying the Institutes I appreciate the fact that you mentioned those creeds because I believe it can be demonstrated that many of the

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Reformed in Presbyterian and Calvinistic Baptist creeds are Indebted to Calvin's Institutes They owe much to the

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Institutes. They are an expression Systematic expression of what you find in the Institutes, but the value of the

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Institutes for Layman or theological student today would be first of all to Learn what a godly man like Calvin understood the teaching of the

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Bible to be and in close connection with that whether friend or foe the reader would

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Come to know what? Reformed Christianity is or Presbyterian Christianity and he would learn that from a clear biblical powerful advocate of Reformed Christianity rather than having his knowledge of Reformed Christianity Darkened by foes who presented in a bad light and in a wrong way and I might add at this point that the

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Institutes especially in its final form Much larger in the 1559 final edition is

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Thoroughly biblical that is Explicitly with regard to every point of what

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Calvin considered to be Christian doctrine He both refers to and offers brief explanation of the pertinent biblical passages

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Out of which the biblical doctrine that he's setting forth flows and then defends that doctrine against Enemies of that doctrine by appeal to the scriptures

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One who reads the Institutes is going to be thoroughly instructed at the same time in Holy Scripture.

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I Just want to remind our listeners so that our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

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if you have any questions, we already do have a number of Listeners who are waiting patiently for their questions to be asked and answered by our guest

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But it's again Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n ze n at gmail .com

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Please include your First name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old

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USA and I would love for you to Now let us also know

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Ways that you think that the church at large? even churches

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In our modern day that are totally unfamiliar Or who have never read the

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Institutes but still maybe even unconsciously Today being blessed by them in ways that they don't even realize.

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How is the church at large? across the theological spectrum

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Perhaps especially in America been blessed by the Institutes What impact has it had on the church that last has lasted through the present day?

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One of the Secular I'm not sure if it's a secular analyst or a theological analyst, but a man of high repute

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Widely in the world has said about the Institutes that one of its accomplishments is that it has framed

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Western culture So when you talk about the influence of Calvin's Institutes, you're talking not only about an ecclesiastical influence, but you're also talking about a political and Civil and national influence.

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It's one of the One of the literary works that has had such a wide and deep impact

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So that those who take the time to read and study the

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Institutes are going to Familiarize themselves with at least in Western society familiarize themselves with the origins of important aspects of Western society itself

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It was a world shaping It turned into a world Influencing if not world shaping work and in connection with what

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I was talking about a few moments ago You asked about the nature of the Institutes.

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I meant to add That the subtitle that Calvin gave to the

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Institutes Emphasized that the benefit of The work would be in piety or godliness

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Anyone who has the notion that the Institutes is a purely intellectual and academic

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Work is mistaken Calvin being a

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Christian man that he was wanted to emphasize in his exposition of all of the doctrine that he explained the

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Implications and applications of that doctrine for the Piety of his reader which to Calvin was synonymous with godliness

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So there's a great deal of that benefit from the Institutes as well

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He applies the truth to the Christian life In fact,

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I'm gonna let you pick up where you left off there We have to go to a station break And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and thank you all of you who have been waiting patiently to have your questions asked and answered

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We'll get to your questions when we come back from the break and we will be right back right after these messages with David J Engelsma and a discussion of his book the reform faith of John Calvin the

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Institutes in summary don't go away. We will be right back Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said

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Lindbergh Baptist org, that's Lindbergh Baptist org. Welcome back. This is Chris Sorensen. If you've just tuned us in our guest today for the first hour and for the remaining half hour is

34:05

David J angles ma, and I'm assuming I'm pronouncing your name correctly. You haven't corrected me yet No, you're doing well with my name and you're obviously of Dutch descent everyone whose last name ends with Zma is always

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I was noticing at the beginning of the program how many names he mentioned that did and We are discussing

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Brother angles ma's book the reform faith of John Calvin the Institutes in summary and don't let that title fool you in summary

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This is a 455 page book. So is it the safe assumption that you're?

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Through your book trying to get people to actually go to the Institutes themselves or are you my purpose?

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Yeah, I'm aiming at two targets First of all, there are those who are never going to read Calvin's Institutes in its entirety but if they read my summary

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I can say before God and man they will have the

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Essence of Calvin's Institutes in their mind and I could pray in their soul.

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I do not What what

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Calvin had to teach I Summarize it. I analyze it if there are areas in which

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I disagree and There are precious few of those. I mentioned clearly that I'm Correcting Calvin in this area or that area so but my ultimate purpose is that many people professing to be

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Christians and especially Reformed and Calvinist Christians will take the Institutes in hand and read the entire two volumes.

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Yes And the The the copy that I have

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In two volumes, I accidentally said three volumes earlier the two volume set that I have

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I know that there are some publishers or at least one that puts it out in a single volume

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I don't know if they've edited anything out of that single volume, but what

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What additions of it if you care to mention them? Do you most recommend the English? additions of the

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Institutes strikingly the very first Translation of the

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Institutes into English was in 1561 That is one year after the final

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Latin edition Written by Calvin himself was translated into French During Calvin's lifetime.

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So that that was by Norton and Norton is supposed to have been the most accurate and Best translator of Calvin still to this day a popular

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English translation Was published by one John Allen in 1813

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Henry beverage translated it for the Calvin Translation Society in 1845 and that's

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Reputed to be more accurate in a better translation than Allen's And the most recent is by Ford Lewis battles in 1960 and that's the translation that I used although that translation is judged to be the least accurate

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And it's obvious in certain footnotes that appear that translator and the editor

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Do not find themselves in agreement with Calvin in regard to certain important doctrines, and I'm afraid that that may also influence the translation, but it will give you the the

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Institutes in Good form, but you know, the battles is the most readable though, isn't it?

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Yes, that's one of the benefits of battle. Yeah, I Have both battles and beverage and I find the beverages.

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Well, I think it's half stolen Latin and do you know anything about the the one volume

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Version of the Institute's have they edited out anything or is it just a larger book? I am

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NOT aware of the one volume edition of the Institute's I have only ever

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Seen the Institute's in English in two volumes all of the translations that I've mentioned

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With the exception of Norton, I'm not sure I've laid hands on Norton that early edition But a later three

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Alan beverage and battles, I believe are all in two volumes. I know my beverages in one volume

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Oh it is. Yes. Oh No, I'm not couldn't comment on that and whether that that would probably depend on who's publishing it at that particular time and Course, it's also if you forgive me for even saying this in the same sentence as Calvin.

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It's a paperback Let's go on to some of our listener questions

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We have I usually don't announce the full names of our listeners who write in questions

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But I think I thought I'd make an exception with this a prestigious listener dr.

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Tony Costa of The Toronto Baptist Seminary He asked a question and I'm looking for it right now and somehow it

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Escaped me, but as I'm looking for it, let me announce or Repeat our email address.

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It's Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com Here it is Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary asked did

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John Calvin believe in the separation of church and state? well, was he a theonomist and He also follows up with did he believe that biblical law?

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Was the normative rule of legislation for any and all secular governments?

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let me take the first one first Calvin did not believe or practice the separation of church and state as That is practiced in the

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United States of America today And as I in fact believe on the basis of the

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Bible it ought to be practiced There was an undue Close relationship between the state and the church in Geneva and that accounts for The blemish on Calvin's record that after the consistory condemned the heretic

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Servetus For his heresy of denying the godhead of Jesus Calvin and the consistory of the church handed

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Servetus over to the civil authorities of Geneva to be burned at the stake for his theological

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Heresy so there was that connection, but at the same time

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Calvin chafed under that close relationship between the church and the state in Geneva because For a long time the civil government of Geneva would not allow the church authorities to practice spiritual discipline excommunication

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Finally at the end of his ministry Calvin fought successfully for that that the church could exercise discipline by The authority that Christ gives to the church without involving the civil state but the full outworking of the separation between church and state

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Remained yet in the future Calvin Supposed that the civil government was responsible for the

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Orthodoxy and the godliness of the church and if that's what your questioner means by theonomy although that term carries connotations today that Calvin would find objectionable

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Then Calvin could be lumped in that category And thank you very much.

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Dr. Tony Costa who is the professor of apologetics as I said at Toronto Baptist Seminary and By the way, we have a surprise for dr

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Costa and a number of you who follow him with questions for our guests due to the kindness and graciousness of reformed free publishing

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Association you are getting a free copy of this book this beautiful hardback 455 page book the reformed faith of John Calvin the institutes in summary and God willing and the reformed free publishing association will have that shipped out to you in the very near future.

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Thank you very much Dr. Costa, I will need your full mailing address Email to me as soon as you can.

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I only have your name and where you're from We do have a

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John in Carlisle, Pennsylvania John wants to know

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I have heard from some anti Calvinist individuals That John Calvin even in the very institutes you are discussing

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Did not believe in the doctrine of limited atonement or definite atonement or particular redemption

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That is often attributed to him. Is that true? That is not true.

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The reason why that Allegation can be made is that Calvin does not in the

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Institute's Directly address the specific question for whom did

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Jesus Christ die and in discussing that question come down bluntly on the side of Jesus death for the elect

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Church and deny universal atonement But there are other ways in which

44:25

Calvin plainly indicates in the Institute's that he believed that Jesus death was for the elect

44:35

Church alone and that is by his teaching that Jesus entire ministry is

44:46

Explained by God's decree of election that in the first place

44:51

That would include of course the atonement of the cross The source of all of salvation in Jesus Christ according to Calvin was

45:01

God's decree of election And that's what makes him odious to Many professing

45:07

Protestants today as it made him odious also to the Roman Catholic Church in his own day

45:12

But a second way in which Calvin plainly indicates that He held particular efficacious atonement is by his

45:27

Repeated insistence and defense of that insistence That the death of Jesus Christ was effectual

45:36

It accomplished exactly what Jesus and God his father intended that death to accomplish and That of course universal atonement denies, so it isn't true to contend that Calvin Did not hold

45:54

Particular efficacious redemption Even though as I said, he does not

46:00

Devote a paragraph or a chapter to the specific topic of the death of Christ for the elect alone, but I may add that That being said

46:11

There is such a thing as the development of dogma Calvin developed dogma in the

46:17

Institute's even though he professed to be giving The Protestant faith for example his development of the three offices of Christ and His view of the saving work of Christ in terms of the three offices of Christ as prophet priest and King That was development of dogma that had not been set forth so clearly by any theologian or church prior to his time and That development of doctrine has been incorporated in the

46:48

Westminster Confession of Faith and in the three forms of unity of the Reformed Churches, so there was reason for the

46:57

Holy Spirit to develop the truth of particular efficacious atonement at the

47:04

Senate of Doris 1618 and 1619 Where that topic was directly addressed in response to the

47:11

Armenian doctrine and universal efficacious atonement and an entire chapter was devoted to Declaring and defending that Christ died for the elect alone

47:25

Calvin Calvin's doctrine implicit in the Institute's was developed explicitly in the canons of the

47:32

Senate of Gort And thank you very much for that question and we have another listener in Riverhead, Long Island, New York pastor

47:47

Josh and his question is In your opinion is the man

47:54

Calvin too closely tied to the doctrine that bears his name in other words

47:59

Do you find people focused more on? Calvin when arguing against Calvinism In other words they they like to pick out either real or imagined flaws in Calvin rather than focusing on the texts of Scripture That teach the doctrines of sovereign grace or reformed theology the answer to that question is

48:27

First of all Yes There is too much of that people have a conception of the man

48:35

John Calvin And often the only thing they know about him is that he burned

48:40

Cervetus Forgetting that It may be said in mitigation of Calvin's role in that event that Calvin pleaded with the authorities of the civil state not to have

48:52

Cervetus burned but to execute him in a less painful way if that is a mitigation of Calvin's complicity in that event and then they dismiss the reform faith as A product of this bad man's brain

49:09

Calvinism and Don't take the time to read and study What Calvin's doctrine actually was and I'm hoping that my own book will

49:21

Serve as a cure for that malady. Yes, and that people will actually read what

49:27

Calvin taught and It out of hand as Calvinism my second answer to that the second aspect of my answer to that question is that it's exactly for the reason that's suggested by the question that I prefer never to refer to Calvinism when

49:50

I'm talking about the faith that Calvin taught and defended I prefer and Try always to refer to it as the reformed faith

50:01

And that's why the title of my book is not Calvinism the Institute's in summary, but the reformed faith of John Calvin I want to avoid that kind of association of the truth that Calvin taught with What people think of when they hear his name?

50:21

Yes, it's it's interesting that there are even Some Fundamentalist and landmark

50:29

Baptists who would be in full agreement with the soteriology of reform theology

50:35

But they would even choose to just simply call themselves sovereign grace believing

50:41

Christians because they don't want any association with the persecution of the magisterial reformers

50:48

Against the Anabaptists and so on. Yes, I can appreciate that and we have

50:55

Another by the way, I just want to remind our listeners You're all getting at least until we've run out of the number that free reformed

51:03

Publishing Association has Permitted or allotted to us to give away you're all getting a free copy of this beautiful book by our guest

51:12

David J. Engelsman of the reformed faith of John Calvin the Institute's in summary and we have

51:18

Bill in New York Bill who says what specific role did

51:25

Calvin actually play in the execution of? Miguel Cervito or Michael Servetus and was he

51:34

Connected closely with the execution of other heretics that you know of Calvin's role in the execution of Servetus Was that as part of the consistory?

51:53

he did turn Servetus over over to the civil magistrates for execution after the consistory had condemned

52:02

Servetus as a heretic so it is impossible

52:08

Much as I might strive to do that to exonerate Calvin from Any active role in the execution of Servetus?

52:19

now it is Touching To my mind anyway that Calvin walked with Servetus all the way to the place of execution

52:32

Pleading with him to repent of his heresy and In the pleading with him to confess that Jesus is

52:44

The eternal Son of God that was the issue for Servetus and Servetus was

52:50

Resolute in his heresy to the end and at the stake His dying words were

52:57

Jesus Son of the eternal God have mercy on me But he would not use

53:04

Calvin's terms Jesus eternal Son of the Living God have mercy on me he remained a denier of the

53:12

Trinity to the end and I am not aware of Any other involvement that Calvin had with the

53:22

In fact, I don't believe that he was involved in the execution of any other heretic in Geneva During his ministry there

53:31

Servetus was the one stain or blemish on his escutcheon with regard to the close relation of church and state

53:41

I'm not Justifying Calvin I've made that plain I think Calvin erred in his conception of the relation of the church and the state the church exercises spiritual discipline as Calvin himself taught and the state is not called by God to back up the discipline of the church by physical measures but it is

54:08

Worthy of note to those who write Calvin off on the basis simply of his involvement in the execution of Servetus that the entire

54:18

Nominal Christian Church of that day took the position that the state had the calling to execute heretics

54:25

It's needless to remind your audience of the numerous executions of supposed heretics by the

54:33

Roman Catholic Church, but also Lutheranism Took that same position and probably the only

54:44

People in churches who descended from that were those from Calvin called the

54:50

Anabaptists And we do have another listener Susan in Newville, Pennsylvania who wants to know did

54:59

Calvin write anything subsequent to the Institutes that his

55:05

Detractors can point to and say see he changed his views and became more in the heart

55:11

Harmony with those who reject reform theology No, Calvin was consistent to the end with regard to What is known as reformed theology?

55:28

in fact in distinction from Luther and I'll Center on predestination because In a way that is at the heart of Calvin's gospel of sovereign grace and what people refer to when they refer to his distinctive confession of reformed theology

55:49

Calvin became stronger in his confession of predestination as he became older That's in distinction from Luther Luther was stronger and confessing predestination at the beginning of his ministry

56:03

Then he was at the end probably due to the influence of Melanchton who did not have much sympathy for the doctrine of predestination, but Calvin wrote works on predestination at the very end of his ministry that were clearer and sharper and stronger than What he had written about predestination 25 or 30 years previously he never wavered about that and he did not weaken in his confession of the truth of salvation by sovereign grace grounded in God's eternal predestination

56:41

We have an anonymous listener who says that my pastor of The church where I am a member

56:50

Tells me repeatedly that Calvinism and John Calvin himself Destroyed and destroys to this day the

57:03

The Great Commission and robs men of evangelistic zeal to evangelize the lost.

57:09

How do you respond to such? accusations Remember I invited you on for two initially

57:20

That was your choice We have been charged in the Protestant Reformed churches with that error as though our doctrine of predestination

57:30

Restricts us from preaching the gospel indiscriminately to all and sundry and in the preaching of that gospel to call all hearers to repentance and faith and to promise that everyone who does believe the gospel will be saved that charge is utterly without merit and Without ground and now particularly as regards

57:57

John Calvin Calvin Taught and if someone would take the time to read my summary of the

58:05

Institutes or the Institutes themselves He would discover that for himself Calvin taught the indiscriminate preaching of the gospel but Calvin's teaching was that The purpose of God with the preaching of the gospel of grace is not to save every human being without distinction but to save some only those whom he has

58:28

Elected and that God uses the gospel as a power That is

58:33

Jesus puts it in John 10 his sheep will hear his voice The sheep that Jesus knows and will believe on him and be saved the alternative to that For the pastor who has spoken erroneously about Calvin according to your

58:52

Questioner the alternative to that is That those who respond positively in faith do so by their own free will so that the glory of their salvation belongs to them and that Calvin and I reject and Last but not least we have a listener who wants to know if Calvin Died at a young age.

59:24

I have heard that but was not quite certain in that regard Yes It's unbelievable.

59:31

What work that man produced in a short lifetime. He died shortly before his 55th birthday in 1964 born in 1509 he had not quite attained 55 years of age

59:49

His writings alone on a bookshelf You will understand that the man hardly slept or ate but devoted Glory of God, which was the great goal of his ministry and of his life

01:00:05

By that hardened work. Well, we are out of time brother I definitely have to have you back and that was

01:00:10

CJ and Linda Hearst who asked that question You're getting a free book as well and I want to repeat the reform witness our radio broadcast

01:00:19

You can find out more details at reform witness our org Reformed witness our org and the reform free

01:00:27

Publishing Association's website is rfp a dot org RF for reformed free

01:00:33

PA for publishing association dot org. Thank you so much David Inglesby I look forward to your quick return to the program so we could discuss this topic and others

01:00:43

Thank you very much and right now we have coming up any second now our second guest today and Stay tuned because the show has still got an hour left

01:00:58

We are going to be joined any moment now by Bill a blank Shane or blank scan

01:01:03

And he will no doubt correct me on the mispronunciation of that name But we are going to be discussing his book

01:01:12

You will be made to care the war of faith family and your freedom to believe and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question our

01:01:22

Email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

01:01:29

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01:03:04

That's wrbc .us Welcome back

01:03:09

This is Chris arms And if you just tuned us in our guests at this moment at the top of the hour is

01:03:14

Bill blank Shane or blank scan I'll have him correct me on the pronunciation any second But we're going to be discussing his book you will be made to care the war on faith family and your freedom to believe

01:03:25

Welcome to the broadcast for the very first time Bill blank scan and if you could please correct my pronunciation

01:03:33

Happy to be here. Yes blank Shane blank Shane, but it's great to be here to talk about you will be made to care

01:03:40

Yes, blank Shane Is the pronunciation and I apologize for that and I want to just read quickly a couple of blurbs commendations for this book

01:03:51

Mark Levin who is no stranger to many in our audience. I'm sure He wrote the compassionate bullies of the left have decided they must force you to shut up my friend

01:04:05

Eric Erickson Exposes their unbelievable bullying so often ignored or excused by the media

01:04:11

Eric Erickson of course being the co -author of the book with a bill blank Shane and David Limbaugh the brother of rush

01:04:20

Limbaugh who is himself a New York Times best -selling author of Jesus on trial and the

01:04:27

Emmaus Code David Limbaugh says few more prophetic words have been spoken in our recent political discourse

01:04:34

Then you will be made to care Eric Erickson and bill blank Shane Under underscore in a convincing and justifiably alarming way that the left is not looking for mere tolerance

01:04:47

But to force social conservatives indeed everyone into submission to their ideology

01:04:54

Prosecuting and persecuting along the way you might not care about the agenda of social liberalism

01:05:00

But menacingly it cares about you. This is a must -read book and Why immediately what comes to mind obviously bill and I'm sure you would agree that the homosexual activists movement

01:05:16

Not only has insisted on equal rights. They've long ago gotten equal rights

01:05:22

They really have superior light rights. They not only want us to Let them

01:05:28

Alone and live out their lives the way they choose to they want us to actually join in the celebration

01:05:35

And be forced to do so legally, don't they? Well, you know, thanks for reading those kind words

01:05:41

Also, you know what they want is the veneer of normalcy and my co -author

01:05:46

Eric Erickson has talked about this for years as well You know, you know, they want the trappings of a normal marriage environment and many times

01:05:55

We think that it's really about tolerance But as a Charles Chip you said tolerance only farms are evil only talks about tolerance while it is weak

01:06:05

And in so many words, he said that you know, once it gains the upper hand It's a whole different story

01:06:10

And so many times we hear this label of tolerance being used to usher in Agendas if we will just put up with things and frankly because we are so nice You know, it's part of our our culture as a country.

01:06:24

It's part of our Christian Approach to the world because we want to be nice. We want to be kind we want to be loving

01:06:31

That gets taken advantage of many times because we don't understand that truth and love go together

01:06:38

And by the way, I want to quickly introduce you to my co -host Reverend Buzz Taylor who's in the studio with me?

01:06:44

This is Joe Blankson author of you will be made to care. Thank you very much.

01:06:50

Good to have you on the show good to be here and Tell us something about the audacity to believe

01:06:59

Yeah, well the very first chapter of the book is called the audacity to believe We're playing a little bit on that chapter, of course off of our current president, right?

01:07:08

One of his autobiographies, which is the audacity of hope You know And it's more than we actually begin the book with a quote from Michelle Obama and we end the book with a quote from Barack Obama playing their own word back to them to kind of make the point

01:07:23

But we begin the book with the story of Calvin Cochran the fire chief of Atlanta who was nominated by Barack Obama To be the nation's fire chief excelled in in that in that area one of the best of the best

01:07:36

The mayor of Atlanta begged him to return to Atlanta to serve there which he did

01:07:41

However, when he published a book that dared to quote scripture he was fired from that position, even though he was doing a phenomenal job and The circumstances around it was there was a lesbian

01:07:58

Employee who was on her way out There was a a known gay councilman who didn't like what the chief had published

01:08:06

And so these forces came together and they pushed for his firing and mayor Reed Unfortunately complied and kicked chief

01:08:13

Cochran to the curb You know, so that's the story we begin with to kind of set the frame if this could happen to him

01:08:20

Frankly, it can happen to anyone in any job in any position simply for Quoting scripture and living out a

01:08:27

Christian faith in life Now you David Limbaugh in his his blurb that he wrote for you he brings up something that you also have as a chapter heading and I'm referring to and let's see.

01:08:45

It just slipped away from me here. Oh the compassionate bullies. Tell us something about that Yeah Yeah, yeah,

01:08:53

Mark Levin I had talked about that that's right, right Yeah, the compassionate bullies, you know The thing about the left and progressives in general a secularist

01:09:02

They really excel at being bullies, but they excel at looking good while doing it

01:09:07

You know They they talk a good game of they're wanting to push you around and force you to do what they want to do

01:09:13

Because they care it's almost like that Disney Pixar film Monsters, Inc. Right we scare because we care

01:09:20

That's really the approach and so they go about this in a way that makes Christians and others feel guilty

01:09:25

For standing in the way of the progress of history or some such thing And so that's really where they're coming from They're trying to bully us and bully people into doing what they want done but when you pull the trappings back what it really comes down to is with the typical bully if you have the courage to Stand up and speak the truth in love in return

01:09:46

You find that their arguments collapse and that others stand up to stand with you

01:09:52

We do have an anonymous listener who has asked in light of the recent heavy fines

01:10:00

That a bakery received for refusing to provide a cake for a same -sex marriage or same -sex wedding

01:10:10

Is this a universal practice across the board in all 50 states where Businesses are in jeopardy of getting heavy fines for things similar to that Yeah They absolutely are in great jeopardy and they could be referring to one of two cases

01:10:30

They're either the case of Aaron and Melissa Klein of sweet cakes by Melissa I've had the privilege of interviewing them personally wonderful people.

01:10:37

We tell their story in the book This would be the people who had serviced couples

01:10:44

Same -sex couples had provided them with with services prior to that had a great relationship with them but when it came time to put their artistic endorsement on a marriage ceremony the clients declined on the basis of their faith and then

01:11:01

Actually the this occurred I believe in the state of Oregon the state of Oregon bureaucrats stepped in And we had cases lawsuits ensue and cases ensue that have just made their life miserable and now these fines passed down On them now.

01:11:18

There's another case Master of his masterpiece cake shop in which the person there had actually said he would bake the cake

01:11:27

He said he would sell them a cake that they could use in their ceremony But he would not and could not with a clean conscience decorate the cake

01:11:36

That was what the entire issue was about is about putting frosting on the cake but that case

01:11:44

Was taken to the courts and they now were ordered to pay Six -figure fine and undergo re -education training including his eighty -some -year -old grandmother who helps them

01:11:56

I mean, this is just crazy And the list goes on we talked about case after case in the book

01:12:01

Yes, if you are in business right now, and you do not have very specific protection

01:12:07

Like the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and others Absolutely, you are at risk and even with that you are still at risk of being sued for this now is this exclusively?

01:12:18

people who refuse to participate in a homosexual activity or for instance, let me give you an example a thing that I have retorted with when when somebody

01:12:31

May may claim that they disagree with a business owner is refusing to provide

01:12:39

Homosexuals with something like a wedding cake or whatever the case may be. I have said well should a

01:12:46

Baker be legally bound to make a swastika cake for the local chapter of the

01:12:53

American Nazi Party Now, what is the where's the line drawn here with these?

01:13:00

With these regulations and laws Right. Yeah, we have to be clear No one is being denied service because of their sexual orientation that is simply not happening in America We hear all kinds of stories about that and comparisons to civil rights struggles and so forth

01:13:16

But there simply are no heterosexual only drinking fountains anywhere So that this case is being made

01:13:25

But it simply is not happening The the allegations are being made, but it's not happening.

01:13:30

Same thing happens with in Indiana and other states where Religious freedom protection laws were passed.

01:13:38

Everyone came out and said the world's going to end there's going to be discrimination It just is not happening at all.

01:13:43

It's happening in the opposite direction Against those who refuse to violate their conscience.

01:13:49

So when we talk about this issue, it's important to clarify that But the other part of this is that Yes in many ways

01:14:00

Okay, what was the second part of your question I want to make sure I get it Oh, what is this as this being limited to those who are of a homosexual background who are demanding rights?

01:14:10

I mean, could it be anything that someone is being denied a service for when it when the service provided attached to it is a

01:14:21

Appearance of approval of what you're doing, right? One of the things we propose in the book is essentially live -and -let -live legislation a common -sense protections to keep people from being forced to violate their conscience by force of government and that's what's happening in these cases, so Yes, a baker should not be forced by the government to bake a cake for the

01:14:46

KKK It doesn't matter what presidential candidate happens to be endorsing them at the time

01:14:51

He should not be forced to do that. If they want their cakes. They should go to KK cakes A t -shirt manufacturer was being required to do things like this and the courts eventually

01:15:07

Overturned it but not before their life was turned upside down. So yeah, so these things these things are taking place and It is not just a a homosexual marriage issue, but there is no clear line here

01:15:23

You know But there must be general protections and when this takes place the government must side on the commie side of freedom

01:15:29

And that's all these religious freedom laws Insist that that be the case that the government if it is going to make mistake err on the side of Liberty But you know as we're seeing in many cases the pharmacists in Washington are being compelled by the government to carry

01:15:43

What they believe to be abortion inducing drugs now These drugs could be obtained at any other

01:15:49

Pharmacy all over the state of Washington and yet they are being forced to carry them or close their pharmacy

01:15:55

I could go more into that story if you wish Yeah The case here is really one that hasn't been heard a lot about as several cases in the book

01:16:05

We talked about that people just don't know about Kevin Stroman interviewed him the Stroman family has run a grocery store

01:16:12

Kind of a one -stop shop, you know before Walmart became popular This was the kind of place that every small city was oriented around and they have a pharmacy there

01:16:21

Well, they had decided actually they didn't even know it was available But a customer asked this is often how these things start a customer asked to provide them with her with abortion inducing drugs mortificant drugs and The pharmacy did not carry it so when she asked why and they looked into it

01:16:41

They said that they would not carry it because of their religious convictions and they thought that was the end of it But that was only the beginning of the uproar and here's why what they didn't realize was that Planned Parenthood had worked with the governor and the bureaucrats for several years to change the requirements

01:16:58

Now they were going outside the bounds of the law. These are bureaucratic requirements being put on them

01:17:04

To force Pharmacists to carry this now what they did was essentially say that you can refer customers to other pharmacies for any reason except Religious ground and so they are intentionally discriminating against religious people in these guidelines

01:17:24

So what happened was eventually the governor of Washington boycotted them Customers boycotted them and made their life a living hell as often often happens these cases

01:17:34

The compassionate bullies came out in full force. They went to trial the Stroman sued for their right to follow their conscience

01:17:42

They went to trial they won the case Handily mountains of evidence witnesses, etc.

01:17:48

They won the case handily The judge had harsh words for those accusing them and they thought that was the end of it

01:17:54

But the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals then overturned the decision Without any new evidence being presented overturned the decision and now the

01:18:03

Stroman stand lose either must shut their pharmacy or comply with these rulings and the only court that can they can appeal to now is the

01:18:12

US Supreme Court and with the passing of Justice Scalia that outcome would be very much in doubt

01:18:19

We do have a listener in Gardner's, Pennsylvania Brian who says what things put pastors in greatest jeopardy legally in this day and age in Regarding things that they preach and teach from the pulpit and in regard to church discipline

01:18:37

Well, I'm going to answer that in a little bit of a different way than maybe he was expecting I think what puts pastors most at risk is their silence

01:18:46

For too long. They have been silent on issues and they have allowed themselves to be put in the box and we address this chapter 8 of our book is all about pastors and how they have

01:18:59

Essentially allowed the pulpits to become powerless on these issues, but we also propose in our chapter called the resurgent church

01:19:06

We also propose a way forward so it we do challenge pastors But then we offer them some insight on how they can turn these things around because our goal is not simply to bring

01:19:15

Attention to the problem. Our goal is to offer at least a path forward as Russell Moore calls it In the book.

01:19:21

So first of all, they need to speak up. They need to be bold on these issues and understand that Their duty as public officials, which they are is to speak to moral issues of the day

01:19:35

You know too many pastors believe that their sermons should affect life But that life should not affect their sermon and that's simply not true

01:19:43

The people in the pews need biblical guidance at this time And so many times pastors are concerned about losing tax -exempt status and so forth something by the way

01:19:52

That has not happened and it's not likely to happen when you in the past when you stand up and do these things

01:19:59

But but to the second part of his question there those things are coming the

01:20:06

Obama administration attorneys before the Supreme Court said that it is likely that those things are going to become under scrutiny you know, so First of all pastors need to understand that they can speak the truth

01:20:17

It is their duty before God and they're calling to speak the truth to their congregation It's simply because an issue becomes political does not mean it is no longer moral

01:20:28

And so they should not stop addressing these issues simply because politicians are talking about them

01:20:34

By the way, I'm sorry. Go ahead But they are these are going to be challenging days ahead and I would encourage everyone to read some of the chapters here

01:20:43

We spoke to Kevin the young Robbie Zachariah David McNeely a number of other pastors to really get their perspective on it.

01:20:50

I served as pastor myself. I understand the challenges But you know, it's time for pastors to go bold or go home

01:20:58

And I just want to let our two listeners know that emailed Questions that you are getting a free copy of this book

01:21:07

Each of you are getting a free copy of you will be made to care Or should

01:21:12

I emphasize my pronunciation of that you will be made to care The war on faith family and your freedom to believe you're getting a free copy of that compliments of Regenery Press So thank you very much

01:21:28

Regenery Press for those gifts for our two of our listeners and you have a very captivating and Chilling title the coming wildfire or what exactly is coming our way?

01:21:45

Yeah, well the truth is it's already here, you know We look around us in our culture many of us have to be

01:21:50

Obergefell Supreme Court decision about marriage You know, I think many people thought it would never happen and said it would never happen and then it did

01:22:00

We are already in the wildfire and the thing about wildfires is this There's not really a whole lot you can do except let them burn out and so over the next

01:22:11

Maybe even generation, but definitely the next many years It's going to be very easy for Christians to look around at what we see as madness in our culture and not just Christians Anybody remotely conservative in their outlook and think that our culture is has lost its mind

01:22:27

You know if you think that to be several centuries ago that when the Dutch Ruled the world for the most part

01:22:34

They actually began to use tulip bulbs as money and we look back at that and think what were they thinking?

01:22:41

It didn't last long it had its moment and then it faded out because it simply didn't work And a lot of that is what we're going to see today as a society.

01:22:50

We have decided you know what we're going to Start this wildfire and see where it goes and the reality is it's going to be destructive

01:22:58

But it's not going to be sustainable the question is What will happen to the church in that process how painful will this process be and then what will happen to us as a nation?

01:23:10

Because of that so the wildfire is not only coming it already has begun to arrive You know when when justice

01:23:17

Scalia and one of his previous decisions Called it that the majority on the court in 2013.

01:23:23

He said the majority on the court has essentially Labeled those who oppose this wildfire as enemies of the human race

01:23:31

And so we are entering really some uncharted grounds here where we're going to have to make some tough choices as believers

01:23:39

But fortunately Jesus told us we would have to do that and prepared us for that and that's why we try to While we expose all this in the book we unpack it we explain it we reveal it

01:23:49

We also offer in our third section of the book a very I hope Encouraging message and practical insight on a way forward

01:23:58

Now one thing that baffles me is and I'm wondering if you are aware of Behind closed doors in fighting that goes on amongst the liberals

01:24:08

Because there's there seems to be some contradictory things going on here feminists as you know have long described men in general has you know basically repulsive predatory

01:24:22

Misogynist perverts and It seems totally Baffling to me that That's that the liberal agenda which includes feminism would be all in favor of unisex public restrooms and things like that to accommodate

01:24:40

Crossdressers that would seem to be inviting an open door for the very perverts that the feminists are always opposing

01:24:49

Do you have any comments about the infighting and the self -destructive conflicting ideologies that seem to be going on here

01:24:58

Yeah, I think it's important to remember that At a most foundational level even though various groups may share commitments to a core

01:25:05

Ideology they are not necessarily an agreement about how that ideology should play out

01:25:11

You know some are going to have different priorities and even though so though they share a common secular

01:25:18

Religion what we call the anti religion religion They you know you still have different factions within that and so it's kind of that old adage the enemy of my enemy is my friend

01:25:29

They work together when it works well for them But when it doesn't then you have a different arguments about well which victims group has priority here.

01:25:40

You know which which specific Complainant Complaint will

01:25:47

Which particular with which specific grievance will get the most airtime in this situation? Then you're going to have a lot of infighting over that, but they are agreed on one thing and that is

01:25:57

Those who believe in a transcendent truth those who believe that God has revealed himself in Scripture and nature and it frankly it doesn't matter if you're a

01:26:07

Christian Jew Muslim if you believe in some some level of Objective truth even if you all disagree about what that is

01:26:15

That goes in the face of the left and the secular progresses And so they are going to unite in order to stomp that out

01:26:23

And then they will happily fight amongst each other with what is left over well I know that you have to leave fairly soon, and I'd like you to basically leave our audience in two minutes

01:26:34

What you most want etched in their hearts and minds when it comes to your book? Yeah, I think

01:26:40

I think both Eric, and I want people to understand that the sidelines are shrinking You know it used to be if you just kept your head down and minded your own business

01:26:50

Then all the madness would just go away and many people are in that place right now. They're feeling frustrated

01:26:55

They feel like they've done all they can They feel like they've gotten involved politically in years past or they've tried to push the right buttons or give to the right

01:27:03

Organizations they just feel wore out By the constant pounding of poker against their faith

01:27:10

One of the reasons we wrote this book was to tell them the very important message that you are not alone

01:27:17

As believers in Christ you are not alone even though the left wants you to feel that way

01:27:22

It simply is not true, and so we wanted you to know that first of all you're not alone second

01:27:28

There is there are answers to these arguments that you hear you we were trying to give people ammunition for the war to push back in a

01:27:37

Loving but bold way you know and along with that I think the other part is we it this is not a time to be silent

01:27:45

Everyone is on the field at this point no one's sitting in the stands anymore If you can hear the sound of my voice you are fair game

01:27:52

And it could happen at any time and so the the most important piece of the book as I said before that final third is we call people to a

01:28:02

Resurgence of faith a resurgence of true faith community a resurgence of faith in their own life the resurgence of Faith and family resurgence in the church resurgence of citizens.

01:28:13

This is not the time for quit for quitting This is the time for re -engaging at a whole nother level because that's what our

01:28:20

Lord has called us to do And so it in our minds. It really is not negotiable because we will be made to care

01:28:27

We will be made to choose between conscience and compliance And I'd like you to quickly give our listeners the site where they can access your blog

01:28:37

Absolutely. Well, first of all to get the book go to you will be made to care calm You will be made to care

01:28:44

Calm and they can choose their favorite vendors see reviews and find stuff to share about the book

01:28:49

It came out last week It's really beginning to take off and we're very pleased at that but to us the important thing is getting the word out

01:28:57

You can also visit my blog at faith walkers calm faith walkers one word faith walkers calm for helping living an authentic life with abundant faith and you can follow my blog at patios and I write at the resurgence as well, but The important thing is frankly, it's not even about the book.

01:29:15

It's not about the blogs It's about defending our freedom of conscience So I would encourage everybody go to you will be made to care calm and check it out

01:29:22

As you will be made to care calm. Thank you so much Bill Blankshane, I eagerly look forward to having you return to iron trump and Zion and hopefully for a full hour or more

01:29:33

Well, I look forward to that. There's so much to talk about this Let's see if we can find a time to make that happen. Great.

01:29:38

I would be most honored if you would return and Thank you again for taking time out of your very busy schedule to be with us today

01:29:47

Thank you, Chris. All righty, and please listeners don't go away because we are going to be joined any second now by Michael Gaydosh the founder and director of Solid ground

01:29:58

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01:30:04

Going to be very soon hot off the press. In fact, some of them are right now available hot off the press

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01:30:22

So don't go away Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am

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I now seeking the approval of man or of God or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

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01:30:42

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01:30:50

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

01:30:55

Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the

01:31:01

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01:31:22

You can call us at 508 528 5750 that's 508 528 5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our

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That's the private story Welcome back.

01:35:27

This is Chris arms and if you just tuned us in our final guest today for the remaining half hour is

01:35:33

Michael Gaydosh who not only was my very first pastor after coming to saving faith in Christ back in the 1980s but he is currently the director of solid ground

01:35:45

Christian books ministry that he had founded himself a number of years ago and The website for that very valuable resource of Christian literature is solid dash ground

01:35:58

Dashbooks .com solid dash ground books .com and we are Joined by Mike today to give us a rundown on things that are not only

01:36:09

Available right now through solid ground Christian books But things that will very soon be hot off the press and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron my friend

01:36:19

My mentor my former pastor and my sponsor of iron sharpens iron

01:36:25

Mike a dash Chris thanks for having me back again. I really appreciate it. Is buzz still there if you run him?

01:36:31

Why he hasn't run me off yet. In fact, he just woke up Now you're partially responsible for the way

01:36:41

Chris turned out, right I'm going to have to start using the excuse that it's thundering outside when my listeners here buzz snoring but For those of our listeners

01:37:02

And there may be some who are very new who have not heard about solid ground Christian books

01:37:07

But give us a quick rundown a summary of what solid ground Christian books is and what you offer

01:37:14

I've been publishing at solid ground since 2001. We're just coming up now on our 15th anniversary and I began

01:37:25

Publishing solid ground when I first moved down to Birmingham after leaving Long Island, I had begun publishing as an arm the ministry arm of solid ground with Calvary press back in 1991 and And when

01:37:41

I moved back down here to Birmingham The Lord opened up a door for me to begin to publish books

01:37:48

Similar to what we had originally done When I was with Calvary press there in Long Island and We've done about 350 titles since I started probably about 75 to 80 percent of them are older works from the 19th century and before the largest project we've taken on is the

01:38:12

Manton set Thomas Manton We did a thousand sets of the 22 volumes hardcover

01:38:19

They've sold out now and sadly don't like aren't likely to be brought back into print for Perhaps many years certainly.

01:38:28

I'm not going to be able to do it in my lifetime that was a once -in -a -lifetime deal for me to be able to do it and the

01:38:35

Lord allowed it and God blessed and more recently I started doing new titles and Actually have a new title that just arrived today if I fall asleep

01:38:46

It's because I helped on low time to have tons of books today and put them in the warehouse

01:38:52

The book is entitled the gospel heritage of Georgia Baptist. Yes from 1772 to 1830

01:39:00

I know that you've had Brandon Smith. Yes on and plan to have I think Brandon and Kurt both on I'll be meeting them tomorrow and We'll be making an exchange somewhere in Trustville, Alabama Of about 400 copies of the book and I have the rest in my warehouse and Shipping out copies today to those who have purchased them.

01:39:23

It's a wonderful book. It's a beautiful hardcover it's my song book and What they've done is they've put together this volume to To demonstrate the historical background of Georgia Baptist and their goal is to give

01:39:39

They're going to be giving a free copy To every Southern Baptist Georgia Southern Baptist pastor and that's over 3 ,500 copies that are going to be given out of this hardcover volume and The book is explaining the historical background of Georgia Baptist Primarily through following the lives of three men two marshals and Daniel Marshall Is the first one that's covered and then

01:40:11

Abraham Marshall and then finally Jesse Mercer Jesse Mercer is his name is

01:40:20

Is preserved in Mercer University and Mercer University Press as well

01:40:25

And these men were instrumental in planting dozens and dozens and dozens Perhaps it might even not be an exaggeration to say hundreds of Baptist churches in Georgia and even beyond and their influence has been quite remarkable from the the forward was written by Earl Blackburn and the introduction was written by Tom Nettles and They just wanted to read a portion of the

01:40:51

Conclusion of the introduction that Tom wrote because it is so helpful in summarizing The purpose and the blend the benefits of this book

01:40:59

He says in light of the great faithfulness of these leaders among Georgia Baptists and the extension of their influence throughout

01:41:05

The South how should we respond at least one implication is that we should see corporate responsibility to maintain

01:41:12

Fidelity to a strong and biblically fulsome doctrinal foundation

01:41:17

It is one of the most strange phenomena of the early 21st century that the theology that our founders cherished and protected is positively opposed in some pockets of the

01:41:29

Southern Baptist Convention and Viewed as dangerous and historically un -baptistic

01:41:36

C .D. Mallory another wonderfully productive and influential name in the Georgia Baptist Association Warned preachers not to fritter down the doctrines of grace and give countenance by our own faith and teaching to self -righteous presumption

01:41:51

The doctrine he continued when appropriately unfolded has not only been profitable to believers

01:41:57

But has been blessed of God to the conversion of sinners. It has torn away their pride and fancied strength revealed them as naked and undone at the

01:42:06

Disposal of their insulted yet gracious sovereign and driven them weeping and penitent to the

01:42:12

Savior's feet There in their last extremity to cry out Lord save or we perish

01:42:18

It is just this earnestness about the glory of God and the souls of sinners. That should be the proper response to the doctrinal commitments

01:42:26

Unfolded in this book and of course, it is indeed sad that the Southern Baptist Convention Those who hold to a doctrinally strong Calvinism are considered un -baptistic and the put one of the purposes of this book is to demonstrate that that's a lie

01:42:41

The fact is the foundation of the of the Southern Baptist Convention Was men who held firmly to the doctrines of grace and the truth be told that it's those who do not embrace these things that are the ones that are more in danger of being called un -baptistic and even

01:43:01

Un -southern baptistic you might say And and Kurt and and and Brandon have really done their homework

01:43:08

They have Scoured the original sources. I was looking at one of the chapters alone

01:43:15

I think it's the one of the ones on I don't know who's Mercer's biography It's only 20 pages long and there are 122 footnotes and the entire book is filled with the documentation

01:43:29

To demonstrate from original sources that that these men were firmly

01:43:36

Calvinists and not not just in name only but these were men who understood and appreciated the fact that it's the doctrines of grace alone that will cause a church to stand and be faithful through the

01:43:48

Seconds in no matter what happens no matter what is coming in the future and And I think that that our prayer is that the

01:43:56

Lord would use this book and work That's the reason why we're giving it free to the pastors in Georgia is that?

01:44:03

we want them to be confronted with the truth about these things and I Remember Paige Patterson.

01:44:11

I was told that Paige Patterson At one point finally admitted that the founders movement have history on their side

01:44:20

Wow, he did I didn't hear that. He admitted why he admitted that That they have history on their side, but he still disagrees with the theology

01:44:31

Now whether that was in a weak moment, but whether that was a Trump ism that slipped out

01:44:36

I Don't know, but somehow he at one point admitted that That that these doctrines were the foundational doctrines of the founders.

01:44:48

They just He just believes they were wrong. And so the foundation was all wrong in his mind but at least as an admission of that most of them won't even admit that most of them just most of the people are ignorant of history and And in many cases have no interest in history

01:45:06

But I believe that the work that they've done is and it's not just for Georgia Baptists I mean, it's written.

01:45:15

They are both Georgia Baptist pastors and they are writing this book for their fellow brethren

01:45:21

They're in Georgia Primarily, but it's not exclusively. I just got an order just a couple minutes ago from Pastor bill downing out in California and Mountain Man Bill that Mountain Man Bill.

01:45:35

He just ordered a couple copies and And I I'm trying to get Earl Blackburn who wrote the

01:45:41

I'm gonna put this on the air now So that they'll be shamed into ordering I'll read on the air so that we have a record of this on his

01:45:54

The conclude the closing words of his preface or his I guess we call it a forward answer forward

01:46:01

He says this This book is stimulating and instructive the

01:46:07

Smith pastors have done Baptists worldwide a great service I highly commend the gospel heritage of Georgia Baptist 1772 to 1830 and suggest that you buy a copy and give it to your pastor on second thought

01:46:21

I suggest you buy six copies One for your pastor and five to get the Baptist pastors in your area

01:46:27

You will not regret reading and distributing this well -written book I just I just texted him and said

01:46:32

I'm sending you your copy and How many more do you want to order for your pastor friends in the neighborhood?

01:46:38

Well, this is refreshing for me to hear because just within the past week, I believe it was I heard on a very prominent

01:46:46

I think he's a Texan Baptist say something to the effect of You know, we these people that are followers of John Calvin and instead of Jesus Christ, you know

01:46:59

I thought well, that's one most ignorant statements. I've ever heard. So you're you're kind of Rejuvenating my my faith that there's some there's some

01:47:07

Baptist around that I agree with me Had to wait till now for that to happen

01:47:13

I 've been I know that's my point. I've known you for four years or five years

01:47:18

Again there's a lot of this has to do with ignorance that there's people just don't realize that that the

01:47:27

Baptists In fact, one of the actual proofs of the fact that Calvinism dominated the

01:47:35

Baptist Church is the very fact that you drive Through the South and you will find on occasion a free will

01:47:40

Baptist Church The assumption was that if you were a

01:47:57

Baptist Church, you were Calvinistic and they wanted it to be known that they weren't Well, that very fact is the proof that at one time

01:48:07

Baptists were Predominantly Calvinist and you had to actually declare yourself not to be in in the words of in the concept of free will

01:48:17

Baptist Church today, that's Would say it's an oxymoron, but it's almost unnecessary to say it because the assumption today would be that you are

01:48:27

A free will Baptist Church in that reason why that's the reason why the very title of reformed

01:48:34

Baptist Has now become more popular Because because the assumption today is the opposite if you're a

01:48:41

Baptist Church You're assumed to to not be Calvinist and it's also important to point out that the free will

01:48:47

Baptists formed as a denomination over a century and a half Maybe two centuries ago

01:48:53

So obviously if even early on in the game, they needed to use the word free will to describe themselves

01:48:59

That shows you how deeply rooted the doctrines of grace are Amongst Baptists as a people.

01:49:05

Well, I never I mean, of course, I went to an interdenominational college but my first church was a

01:49:11

Baptist Church and in fact, I'm I'm ordained Baptist just for the record, but I was amazed because as is a fundamentalist

01:49:22

Baptist pastor I was preaching against a Calvinism at one point and but I you know,

01:49:27

I had no idea of What our Baptist heritage was at that time and I was shocked and so shocked that Went out and bought the confession of 1689 and whenever I dealt with Baptists about reformed theology.

01:49:41

I would use their own confession yeah, that's a it's always tough when you start throwing the confession back in the in the face of the

01:49:49

Baptist right because they don't understand that the importance of the confession of faith.

01:49:55

In fact, most of them would claim that they Their only confession is the Bible which is a bunch of nonsense, right?

01:50:02

When you start to ask them, what do you believe about this? What do you believe about this but tell you and they don't just quote

01:50:08

Bible verses They actually will tell you in their own words. I said, well, then that's your confession Yeah confession is that you don't believe this.

01:50:15

You don't believe this. You don't believe this and you don't believe that So therefore you must believe this and you must believe this and you must believe that So anyway, that is that's the first thing that I wanted to highlight today with the gospel

01:50:28

And I know you're going to have those guys back. So I'm not going to Belabor that anymore. I just I did want to introduce another volume that I just got done

01:50:37

And it's the called the office and work of the Holy Spirit by James Buchanan This is a book that was originally published in 1843 and And it really is divided into three parts the first is the spirits work in the conversion of sinners and basically deals with the whole subject of regeneration and Then he has part two is a very interesting section where he has what's called illustrative cases

01:51:06

He looks at the Philippian jailer the dying malefactor Paul the

01:51:11

Ethiopian treasurer Cornelius Lydia Timothy Conversions at Pentecost and then revivals and those are the illustrative cases and then finally part three is looks at the edification of the spirit in the people of God after conversion and That's the spirits work at the spirit of holiness is

01:51:31

Work as the spirit of adoption the spirits work as the spirit of prayer and then concludes with the spirits work as the comforter and So it's a beautiful book

01:51:42

It really is it's a it's a just a precious precious book simple Ferguson Said of this is the

01:51:48

James Buchanan do long to the bright galaxy of theologians who graced the early days of the

01:51:53

Free Church of Scotland It's brilliant and uniquely conceived treatment of the Holy Spirit expounds his ministry first biblically and theologically

01:52:02

Then in a series of biographical studies and finally systematically in the life of the Christian Buchanan's superbly combines the reliable with the readable

01:52:11

The doctrinal with the practical the theological with the devotional the office and work of the

01:52:17

Holy Spirit is a classic Work on the Holy Spirit in a master class in theology and This was one of BB Warfield's favorite books on the

01:52:28

Holy Spirit In fact this book along with George Smeaton's book the doctrine of the

01:52:33

Holy Spirit Which I'm also going to be bringing back into print sometime in the month of March He says of the two he says these two treatises covering the whole ground the one in a more practical the other in a more didactic spirit and Both in a manner worthy of the best traditions of our

01:52:50

Puritan fathers. That was Warfield and I'd like to I'd like to have you actually on the the program to Spend a whole hour at least on that one book by beginning.

01:53:03

Yeah Yeah, I'd be happy to come back and do that and the the the other book that right now

01:53:09

I have in print Is actually by Warfield himself, and it's the book called the person and work of the

01:53:15

Holy Spirit Yeah, and that is a book that actually I Devised it myself.

01:53:21

I've always Appreciated and loved ever since the Lord saved me and and I was introduced to Warfield.

01:53:27

I've just loved his writing and I Have Appreciated his volume the person the work of Christ and I decided that as I started looking through his materials

01:53:38

I noticed he had a lot on the Holy Spirit and I decided to try to put together a a book

01:53:44

That had never been done before and it's entitled the person and work of the Holy Spirit Sinclair Ferguson was kind enough to write a pretty lengthy introduction for me and I really appreciate

01:53:58

The support that I've received from people really all over the world ever since I did this book and It's made up of three sections sermons the first first hundred and ten pages are

01:54:12

His sermons on the Holy Spirit and then there are articles is the article the

01:54:17

Spirit of God in the Old Testament Both the shorter and the longer edition of that and then on the doctrine of the

01:54:22

Holy Spirit another article as well as the 1903 revision of the Westminster Confession of Faith of the

01:54:29

Holy Spirit and Then also an article that he wrote with a a Hodge entitled the Holy Spirit And then he did about a half a dozen book reviews on Books that had to do with the

01:54:40

Holy Spirit like the Spirit of Christ by Andrew Murray The Spirit of Power by Reverend Thomas Adamson and the witness of the

01:54:49

Spirit in relation to authority and inspiration of Scripture by William McLaren and It's a it's a very very valuable book in that it does cover everything that Warfield wrote on The Holy Spirit in his ministry.

01:55:02

This is a curiosity going back to Buchanan Does he write about any of the abuses of the

01:55:09

Holy Spirit? Obviously, they didn't have a full -blown charismatic movement, but Edward Irving was a member at one time of that very denomination the

01:55:19

Church of Scotland And obviously may be considered in some ways the grandfather of the charismatic movement, but We can in fact when

01:55:35

I come back to discuss the entire book we can look more Specific more specifically to what he has to say about that all although the book was written in 1843

01:55:46

Yeah, I'm not sure everything died 1834 34 okay

01:55:53

Okay yeah, that and Irving was a

01:55:59

Was just a very fascinating man one of the best biographies I've ever read was

01:56:04

Dalai Lama's biography of Irving entitled the forerunner of the charismatic movement and It's a beautiful biography

01:56:13

Dalai Lama writes in that he he just allows Irving's life to speak for itself

01:56:18

And it isn't until the very very end after he tells the story just tells it factually

01:56:26

He then at the end kind of draws the reader in and sits down and says, okay, what can we learn?

01:56:32

from this man's life and the the direction that it went when he got off course and What are the dangers we need to avoid and he really

01:56:45

Dismantles the charismatic movement in the most gracious way and in just a few pages after having

01:56:53

Basically seen for yourself. Well, this is what happens when a man gets off course and starts to claim to speak

01:57:02

For God where it's to come directly to him I've always felt that was one of the best books that you could give to a charismatic to Appeal to them just to show them from an historical perspective

01:57:17

What happens when you go in this direction? I want to make sure I announce your website again this just in case time slips right underneath us and I don't have time

01:57:27

It's solid dash ground Dash books calm solid dash ground dash books calm if you could summarize in two minutes what you most want our

01:57:38

Listeners to know about solid ground Christian books and what you're offering right now Well, I think that the thing that I'm Most excited about is the opportunity that God has just continued to give to me to Be able to bring books old and new to the people of God the number of Solid publishers that are left are becoming fewer and fewer

01:58:04

People have turned away from the truth and are turning aside the lies and Many of my customers my best customers from the past have gone out of business

01:58:15

And it's it's a sad time. I know my own case. We just we just had less than 200 orders for the for only the second time in the last 10 years this past month and And so I'm you know,

01:58:29

I'm in need of help at this time people Being mindful of the fact that and I've had people that have been faithful customers who will come to me even though it might in Some cases not often, but occasionally might cost them a little bit more than going to CBD but CBD and Amazon are worldly companies that don't care what they sell and We are very cautious about what we sell here and we would hope that people would want to support and work

01:58:55

I don't ask for donations. I just all I do is ask for people to Buy our books and we offer great deals great great offers every day and And we just encourage people to be mindful of the needs of those few publishers that still remain out there that are trying to Hold fast to the truth and I just want to announce again that solid -ground -books .com

01:59:19

Solid -ground -books .com. Thank you so much Mike a dash for being our guest today.

01:59:24

Thank you Even more so for being a sponsor regularly of iron sharpens iron

01:59:29

I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater