June 30, 2017 Show with Dan Phillips on “The World-Tilting Gospel” AND “God’s Wisdom in Proverbs”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross

in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian

scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world

today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron.

So one man sharpens another.

Matthew henry said that in this passage quote.

We are.

Cautioned to take heed whom we converse with.

And directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now, here's our host chris arnton.

Good afternoon, cumberland county, pennsylvania lake city florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet earth.

Who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is chris. Arnson your host of iron sharpens iron.

Wishing you all a happy friday on this first day of fourth of july weekend.

That's friday june 30th 2017.

And i'm delighted to have on the program today.

Uh, somebody that I have never interviewed before.

His name is dan phillips.

He's actually a guest today.

Due to popular demand by some of my listeners who have been telling me about dan and his books.

Dan has his master of divinity degree from talbot theological seminary.

And he has taught seminary and college classes in new testament studies hebrew and old testament theology.

He's preached and presented seminars on proverbs and the sovereignty of god.

Has written biblical newspaper columns and tracks.

Has hosted a radio talk show.

And has an ongoing conference and pulpit ministry.

He is most broadly known for his writing on the pyromaniacs blog with phil johnson and frank turk.

And at his own blog biblical christianity.

And he pastors the copperfield bible church in houston, texas.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever on iron sharpens iron.

Dan phillips.

Hello, brother.

Thanks so much for having me.

I really appreciate it.

Hey, it's my pleasure brother and we are going to be discussing today.

Uh on iron sharpens iron dan two of dan's books the first hour we'll be dealing with.

The world tilting gospel.

That's the world tilting t -i -l -t -i -n -g gospel.

And the second hour we intend to cover his book god's wisdom in proverbs.

But before we even get into all that dan, uh, you usually when I have a guest on for the first time.

I like that guest to give an abbreviation.

Or a summary of how the sovereign lord.

Drew you to himself and saved you.

And what kind of religious atmosphere if any you

were

raised in.

California.

Pagan.

And by the time I was in my mid -teens, I got into a we called it a new thought cult.

It's a mind science.

Uh an early precursor of what we now call new age

cult.

Um, yeah.

I've heard of that.

Was that what aw pink was dabbling in or was that something else?

I had never heard it.

So I don't know if he was into that, uh, you know, robert young father knows.

Yes.

Yes Peggy lee the singer was in

it.

Um, I don't know anybody else famous.

Let it begin with me.

Wow.

But

at any rate,

uh spiritualizes

the no god is

by finding

god within ourselves.

I found though I

wouldn't put

that

word on it because we didn't believe in sin but the more I got into myself the more miserable I was because the

Holy spirit was of course

that I

believed in was a god of my own construction.

It was not from outside of me.

It was what I thought was best to me to know

him.

On his own terms, whatever that would be not.

Showing me love and not pressing me in any way that would not have worked with me an aggressive approach.

Could have just told me if I ever wanted to talk

religion I could but as the holy spirit convicted me of sin

I got best tell me about

his faith.

I read the gospel of john.

I had read the gospel of john.

It bothered me.

Very well, especially john 14 6.

Where jesus says I through me.

Well, I was taught that we all were our own way to god.

So here's jesus who used to say

no what he said

absolutely sounded like he

was saying He was the only way now.

Here's jesus and here's me I'm the authority for my religion.

Here's jesus who on the other hand Was not a fragmented person.

He was a he was a whole person.

He his life was a a a fabric of the of the miraculous.

Um, he did not sin.

He manifested the works and the presence of god.

Died and rose from the dead.

So I began praying my friend told even jesus.

And uh, because if he if he doesn't what are you out?

Well, i've been considering the person that cries seriously and I began praying that way.

I also had read some mere christianity C .s lewis i'd read my heart christ's home.

And so I began praying that way god.

I want to know you on your own terms.

If I need to know you through jesus then then i'm willing and uh.

So I went is reading my diary,

but the holy spirit was.

I've had those moments definitely where you know what I thought, you know exactly what i'm talking about I I was I felt like he was

a prosecuting attorney and I was just being I knew the truth

of going to find out.

How to know christ just I mean no I got all the time you need so I did that was february 11

1970 out to god to save me cried out to christ.

Praise god, by the way, I have to make a clarification when I was talking about aw pink.

I mean, I meant to ask was that the cult that he left not that aw pink.

Oh, yeah I knew I knew I didn't mean to make that clarification with you.

But in case somebody was listening and they start thinking I better get rid of my aw pink books.

Um.

He aw pink was one of the greatest minds of the 20th century when it came to the sovereignty of

god and unfortunately, he The last few years of his life became a recluse

and uh was separated from the church by his own Volition, but uh, other than that, he was a

really brilliant man in his works.

Uh, I highly commend to everyone.

When did you realize that?

Uh, you had a call upon your life from god to be a pastor.

Well at the time I was preparing to be a minister in in the religious science

I was 17 years old and I wasn't sure.

But I know that

the day that and

to make it known to other people that just was the strongest desire in my life.

And that that compelled me.

I just devoured scripture.

I got as deeply into it as I could.

But but immediately I had the issue of what do I do with my life?

I was very involved in this cult.

So I had to call everybody and tell them that I i'd be resigning from this.

I wouldn't be doing that anymore.

I wouldn't be coming back because God had saved me in christ.

I was living to believe in christ and so.

So I didn't have a plan b.

Obviously a teacher at at my high school who I knew was also a pastor.

And I just because I didn't know who else to talk to I didn't have connections in christian churches.

And I knew that he was a man of a lot of a lot of training a lot of experience.

So I told him that the lord had saved me.

He was delighted.

I told him what I desired that I wanted to serve god with my life and um.

That I I didn't know what to do.

I hadn't prepared knew I wanted it to be for christ

and that he was about to

start a training school.

That would emphasize the biblical languages and the biblical

happy to have him be exactly what I

needed.

Um, he had some doctrinal things that I needed to steer around and and get away from

eventually.

But.

I was not ready to go to anything more formal or more advanced than that.

And that actually started me learning greek within the first year of my conversion

starting to learn about about the word.

About about Uh doing exegesis and interpreting and

started that within a year of my conversion.

That was a four -year Training school and and um, I got opportunities to teach and

eventually to preach and uh, When I did people said they were blessed that the word was open to them.

God was graciously, uh bringing his word to their hearts and minds through What I brought and the

more I did it the more I loved it the more I knew that that's what I wanted to do With the rest of my life.

So I just I just kept down that path.

Praise god.

And uh, just out of curiosity, uh, one of my closest friends who's a Big supporter of iron

sharpens iron radio both with encouragement and financially is uh, ronald

glass ron glass pastor of wading river baptist church In wading river long island.

And he was on the faculty at one time at talbot.

Does this curious if you knew who he was.

Or if you ever met him.

Oh boy that name.

Okay, and the copperfield bible church in houston,

texas.

Tell us about this congregation.

It is an independent church has been meeting since 1934 uh

in this

church,

but one

sunday, he said

that he

resigned his

pastorate here and move

elsewhere and

This fellow who was my reader Immediately said I need to get on the pastoral server and

reach out to dan phillips.

So he contacted me and said what would you think about pastoring a church in houston?

And I said, isn't it awfully hot in houston?

Okay.

Thank you.

Have an air conditioning job.

Well, praise god and for our listeners who would like to pay a visit to copperfield bible church in houston texas if they

happen to already live there or if they're visiting there or if they have Family friends loved ones or acquaintances that

live there.

The website is copperfieldbiblechurch .org.

That's copperfieldbiblechurch .org.

And now i'm going to uh.

Announce our email address if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for dan phillips.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

That's c h r i s A r n z e n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state.

And your country of residence if you live outside of the usa.

The first hour as I mentioned earlier, we're going to be talking about the world tilting gospel.

Embracing a biblical worldview and hanging on tight.

And I want to read just a few uh commendations for this book that have been written by

Folks that I have interviewed here on iron sharpens iron radio.

We'll start off with john mccarthur.

I'm sure is no stranger to our listeners.

Uh, he says pithy pointed perceptively biblical dan phillips unpacks the

gospel's practical implications in this wonderfully readable and supremely helpful

handbook.

My good friend phil johnson who I spent some time with in new york city recently at the

foundations conference, uh, the conference of sermon audio who has been a guest on this program many times of

phil who is the executive director of grace to you ministries the the publishing

and radio and television ministry of john mccarthur.

Phil says I've been reading and learning from dan phillips ever since I discovered his blog in 2005.

His insights never fail to amaze and instruct me.

This book reveals why he is such a careful critical thinker.

Because his worldview is shaped by scripture and centered on the timeless truth of the gospel.

This book is a great tonic for the post -modern tendencies that poison so many young minds

today.

And i'll end with james hamilton who was a guest on this program during our eschatology week.

I believe that we had last year on iron sharpens iron.

Uh, james hamilton says who would have ever thought that tilting the world would set it, right?

With humor creativity and insightful surprises dan phillips captures all the beauty and freshness of the

gospel.

The gospel turns us right side up and this book uses sound teaching to cure

Worldly vertigo.

That's a great line there.

And uh, so, um.

What was the catalyst behind you writing this book.

There are quite a number of books that address the concept of Adopting a

biblical worldview.

What was the need that you find the vacuum that needed to be filled that that basically?

Uh was the catalyst for you saying, you know I I gotta write this book that There's things that i'm I want to say that people

other people haven't said yet in writing in a in a concise volume on biblical worldview.

Well, thank you,

it's a great

question the

low state so many people are.

Slip sliding away from the truth of the word of god compromising.

Bailing out going off the road an awful lot

and try to trace to what it's uh.

And I was at a conference the conference actually where I first met phil

and frank david wells was speaking.

And he said talking about

why the gospel in our day.

And of course he traces it to the dominant culture the dominant Worldview of folks the fact that every

god to us really.

And uh the way he expressed it was he said that people don't think in terms of sin and guilt anymore.

They think in terms of value and of shame and of self -image and um.

It's all subjective.

It's all inward and he said the the gospel is part

depends on and is part of.

An entire worldview an entire way of looking at the world.

And then he said that's why the bible starts my

mind.

I said That's it.

That is exactly it.

The bible start is for the gospel to make any sense to us.

We

need

to see

it

like

oh

man

I believe that he

died for

your

sins.

So what they do is they isolate that bit of the gospel they're hearing that they like.

And they just patch it onto their worldview.

They just add it to what they already believe.

So basically they're relativists

who live jesus has

their back fundamental church

Economy their fundamental way of looking at the world starting with themselves.

Has never been challenged.

And one thing one thing that's obvious about that approach that you mentioned, uh

rick warren was Advocating try jesus for a certain amount of time.

That's clearly a gospel devoid of repentance because nobody Repents of

things that they love.

Nobody leaves The world the flesh and the devil behind and their most cherished

Activities that are an abomination in god's sight.

Nobody leaves those abandoning those on a bended knee with a broken heart If they're trying something

as an experiment.

And not casually, that's right.

That's not something you try.

That's right.

Yeah, that's something I know because I was there trying jesus On

his terms because I knew i'd never find him if he didn't

reach out to me.

And uh, and that's what the holy spirit does.

I believe in the hearts of everyone that he saves so.

So I looked at the bible and I saw the bible starts with god.

It doesn't start with man.

It starts with the world as god created it and god intended it and puts man in god's world.

God's instruction the first

thing what he's there for under

god, obviously adam and eve retented in the

garden.

To turn everything on its head.

They know everything they need to know about that forbidden fruit.

God has told them everything they need to know about that.

Don't eat it.

That's all they needed to know right?

But satan persuades them that no, no, no.

No, he hasn't told you what he has told you isn't sufficient.

What he's told you isn't reliable.

He doesn't really care about you like I do and so he He preaches autonomy to them.

He preaches to them.

Look, you look at the fruit and you make up your own mind about it.

You don't need to don't think under god.

Think from yourself and everything changes there.

They eat the fruit and they die.

They die instantly.

They die in their spirits.

They die in their minds their worldview is shattered.

And it just takes their body a few hundred years to catch up but um.

But what happens there in the garden is an absolute shattering of humanity.

So I start the book there.

I start the book in the garden in the garden.

I go to jeremiah 17 9.

And our heart in

the bible is not our

feelings our

heart is this

evaluate

thing jeremiah says many

again christians approach with

fabric, it's

a g a

second

ago when i'm

ready to

present

to people.

Put it on.

And turn him into a child of god that that's what repentance is that the

greek word.

Methanoeo.

Some have correctly said that what it means is a change of mind but then they've Explained it in a way that

sounds like what i'm saying is it's a change of opinion.

You know, like i'm changing my opinion about whether jesus is god or not I'm changing my opinion about whether he rose from

the dead or not.

And if I adopt those two opinions, well, i'm a christian but no.

It's it's a change

of mind in the

sense of a

transformation of not

deny yourself.

Did you just say deny nylons?

Is that a world war ii reference?

That's what they were.

A reference.

Yeah, that's uh, it's also a uh world war ii reference.

I remember the women had to Cut back on using nylons for the war effort because of the material that

I don't know something like that.

I'm thinking of the way that the fundamentalists have made.

Anyway, this is worldliness.

Using lipstick is worldliness.

Yes.

The

essence

of my

sign.

Deny

yourself.

Jesus says not a novelist

not a dumbbell

said how can I follow him if i'm dead?

I guess he has to.

That's what he does.

Gives me the ability to come.

Amen well, we've got a number of listeners already who have emailed questions to you.

In fact, I am I am going to email you One and have you answer it

when we come back this way.

You'll have Time to look it over during the station break.

Uh, jenny from ben salem, pennsylvania has actually four questions.

And i'll email you her or forward you her email.

And if any and if anybody else would like to join those already waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

Our email address is chris arnzen At gmail .com.

That's chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state.

And your country of residence if you live outside of the good old usa.

And please only remain anonymous If it makes you feel more comfortable.

That's chris arnzen at gmail .com.

C h r i s a r n z e n at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

God willing after these messages with more of dan phillips.

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Welcome back.

This is chris arns.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go.

Is dan phillips pastor of copperfield bible church in houston, texas.

We are addressing his book the world tilting gospel during the first hour.

And then coming up in the second hour.

We're going to be discussing his second book God's wisdom and proverbs if you'd like to join us on the air with a

question.

For dan phillips.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And please always give us your at least your first name.

Your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside of the usa if you are asking about a personal and private matter.

You may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable.

But only be anonymous if it's about a private matter and before the The break.

Dan as you know, I forwarded you an email with uh from jenny from ben salem, pennsylvania.

And she has four questions.

I think they're very good questions that are involved in somebody forming a

Biblically accurate worldview.

And her first question.

It's interesting how she Asks three of these questions.

In the form of the negative what isn't Sanctification.

I assume that she is coming from the perspective that many people have a false presupposition of what these

terms or words mean.

But.

But what isn't sanctification?

Yeah, these are really good questions.

They're very solid questions and let me say too that Each of them is something that I deal

with at some point question about it.

The first thing I want to say about what sanctification isn't is it isn't and that's very

different.

That's the difference between The biblical

saving gospel and

combines infused righteousness

and our works into god's declaration of righteousness.

So put concisely in christ

with christ's Imputed righteousness say

once for all which god is the

application.

Sorry sanctification on the other hand Is well one another thing that sanctification isn't

is it isn't just one thing there are three aspects of sanctification in the

bible.

There's one sense of sanctification in which I am Sanctified positionally the

moment i'm saved once for

all so i'm set apart for god's ownership and service By virtue of my salvation.

I'm I am god.

I've bought with the price and i'm his and so in that way I'm positionally sanctified but that begins a

lifetime process of sanctification in which I grow in my holiness in my.

Um.

My conformity to the image of christ to the character of god.

That's something not true of justification.

There's there's no degrees of justification, but there are degrees of growth in the process of

sanctification.

And there also is perfect sanctification.

When I see him as he is and i'm conformed to his likeness.

Um, I could say one more thing.

Oh, that's very important.

Very topical today.

Sanctification is not by faith alone.

There is some teaching on that and there always has been and i'm sure you're familiar with the keswick teaching

of older days.

Yes uh of crisis upgrades by Abandoning ourself or yielding

ourself and in which um, we're told to become passive and let christ.

When I do talk about that at great length in the bible, um sanctification.

Yes, and in

fact

this

uh.

This uh aberrant view of sanctification where it is, uh, really focusing only

on faith Uh seems to have risen its ugly head even amongst some professing

Reformed christians, especially it seems amongst some of our presbyterian brethren.

It's it's you know what?

I'm glad you said that because I wanted to say that my book actually came

and I

wish that because it anticipates it.

If the folks who are confused and caught up in that had read world hope and gospel They would have had

some biblical imagery sounding the very god

honoring and even reformed sounding what

actually says about.

And the second question jenny has is what isn't total depravity.

It's uh interesting concept that that even some of our fire -breathing

hellfire and brimstone fundamentalist brethren Disagree with total depravity, which to me makes

no sense.

But but uh, if you could and of course, it's likely that they have a total Uh

misunderstanding or a different definition of total depravity than the one that has historically been used by

reformed christians.

Well, i'll i'll be briefer unless you want me to expand anything.

One thing that told everybody is as.

It

is the

teaching

that

we are our

makeup

coming

into heaven and not hold me

accountable for my sins because I'm.

And we have uh, what is this time?

What is man's responsibility to god?

Man's responsibility is to respond to the word of god by trusting and obeying

I.

Every time I get a word from god i'm obligated.

That is the.

Meaning that's the impact Of the sufficiency and the authority of scripture.

God is speaking to me.

And so there is no such thing as god just sharing, you know God just venting just dropping a thought or two for me to take

relief.

If god speaks it binds me.

I have to respond to the

word by Believing it and by responding obediently whatever it causes to do.

And the last question from jenny is what isn't Free will.

I had an interesting conversation on free will a couple of weeks ago with pastor greg

nichols Of grace emmanuel reform baptist church in grand rapids, michigan.

And we were talking about sometimes We who are calvinists make the mistake of

denying free will without giving in any explanation.

Where.

Even our confessions Even our confessions say that we have free will.

But there is a caveat behind that.

It's really that we are free To do as we please but we only please evil or

selfishness before we are regenerate.

That's the issue.

That's right.

Yeah, somebody quoted john mccarthur to me is saying you're free to choose your next sim.

That's a

good way to put it.

I believe

that we have the

power to

choose in

that all him.

It's the mind.

It's not a free floating thing like a balloon just floating out there independent of any influence.

It is my mind makes choices now.

So then when you are the mind to make choices,

so is the mind free?

Amen.

Well, jenny, guess what?

Uh, you have received a free copy of the world tilting gospel.

Embracing a biblical worldview and hanging on tight.

Quite a humorous photograph on the cover of a man.

Sitting in a chair that is attached to a ceiling.

Yeah, be stupid.

And we we thank uh, kregel publications for providing us with these copies That

we are giving away.

Thank you so much jenny, and please make sure we have your full mailing address.

We have a first time questioner.

And I hope that this listener In california writes in often just because I

love saying the city where he lives.

This is the first time we've heard from brennan in rancho cucamonga california

and brennan says.

This is my first question to your program though I have listened for quite a while and I love it.

I commend you for your diligent work for the gospel and I thank you For giving me something to listen to every day that

is edifying to myself and my family.

If you could ask dan phillips What he thinks is the most important thing for a christian to

learn.

For the effective sharing of the gospel.

Smart alec.

The utter

of

the

gospel

when

we

preach

christ.

We preach the gospel.

We preach the gospel of our

gospel.

We're not asking people Simply to believe a few forgiveness

and love but we're preaching

christ to them

through him.

They need to repent and believe in the lord jesus through their

life.

There's a concise.

It's a great question.

Well, you know in some ways i'm sure you would agree that the very first

uh chapter in part one of your book Is at the core of why not only

cults and false churches like the roman catholic church, but even some professedly evangelical churches.

Where they might have their bare bone elements of the true gospel when i'm speaking of evangelicals, but they have a

distorted gospel Is when they get wrong?

Knowing god and man which comes first.

What difference does it make?

The doctrine of god and the doctrine of man are typically Blurred or distorted in

some way.

And anybody that has either an out and out false gospel like rome or like the cults or

a distorted gospel Like many evangelicals have.

Wouldn't you say that.

That's uh part of the reason that you included that in your in your book?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

You're turning me right back to

what is bailing out and buckling on issues related to homosexuality

related to marriage related to The role of women evolution so many different things

when I see how people explain Their decisions and their choices and their changes

says about him.

He's never been shattered by the

Homosexuality decimated us and that we don't know

anything properly.

Until we know what god thinks about an issue whether we need to put everything that we think naturally ourselves to one

side And test it all by

what script life

and death central issues like hell like the exclusivity of christ

like the centrality of christ you realize that here's somebody who's Heard a very shallow gospel and

and has had a very shallow faith and it's just it should not be.

Oh brennan in rancho cucamonga, california, I thank you so much for Joining us on the air

with a question after having listened to our program for quite a while.

And we hope to keep hearing from you and guess what because you are a first -time questioner.

Not only are you winning or have you won?

The world tilting gospel.

Embracing a biblical worldview and hanging on tight by our guest dan phillips.

You're also getting A new new american standard bible.

That's one of those sentences where new is twice in the same sentence.

Twice back to back a new new american standard bible compliments of the publishers of the nasb

Who have been sponsoring iron trip and zion radio ever since we first launched our program back in 2005 and

early 2006.

And we thank you brennan and we hope to keep hearing from you often.

Uh.

Tyler and mastic beach long island new york says is it true that in the public sphere that the truth of total

depravity is seen In the unbeliever's worldview because they think that scripture's

wisdom is foolishness.

Is that why men commonly before regeneration think that the scriptures are foolish?

Is it because of total depravity, uh dan?

Yeah.

Well tyler you have won the final actually as i'm.

Sorry, it's the second to final copy of the world tilting gospel by dan phillips.

Please make sure you give us your full mailing address and we'll have cumberland valley bible book service Ship that

out to you.

Let me thank our friends at cv bbs Dot com that's cumberland valley

bbs bible book service dot com Uh for shipping out all of our winners the free bibles

and books And dvds and cds that they win when they submit questions to our guests.

Uh, todd and patty jennings have been faithful supporters Of iron sharpens iron radio ever since we relaunched

the program here in pennsylvania in 2015 and we.

Are.

Truly indebted to them for their Support and uh now we have the

final winner of the world tilting gospel dan uh by dan phillips.

We have joe in slovenia.

And joe says thank you for consistently having topics and guests who are truly turning the world upside

down.

My guest is related to my question is related to ecumenism and turning the world upside down.

I love the quote by martin lloyd jones when he said in response to those who were gloating over the growing ecumenical

movement of his day.

You seem to be arguing that if you succeed in bringing together a sufficient number of dead bodies, they will come alive.

Ha ha ha.

What does brother phillips have to say about this quote.

In light of the apostle paul's teachings and first corinthians that true believers and true? churches must be separate

and avoid partnerships with false forms of christianity and paganism.

Are we going to repeat turning the world upside down through ecumenical unions with heretical and herodox

expressions of christianity.

Or is there a more biblical way if so?

What is it.

And that is.

And he says thank you so much for standing In and for the truth i'm going to forward you

this uh question so you could have time to look it over.

While we are going to a break right now.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with dan phillips.

One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

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Welcome back.

This is Chris orange.

And if you just tuned in to our show today our guest for the full two hours as Dan Phillips Pastor of

Copperfield Bible Church in Houston, Texas.

We just concluded the first hour Addressing his book the world tilting gospel.

But we do have one more question from a listener that will we we will pick up on.

Before moving on to our second topic for the second hour God's wisdom and Proverbs.

So if you have a question on God's wisdom and Proverbs.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris a RN Z en a gmail .com before I reread Joe and

Slovenia's question I do.

Want to make sure that you are aware of some very important events that are coming up.

Fellowship Conference, New England is being held in Portland, Maine August 3rd through the 5th

featuring such speakers as pastor Don Curran of The

Heart Cry Missionary Society, which is the organization founded by Paul Washer my dear friend pastor Mac

Tomlinson Who is an author and pastor at Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.

And Pastor Jesse Barrington who's been on this program a pastor of Grace Life

Church in Dallas, Texas.

The sister church of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida who owns Grace Life

Radio?

Which airs the pre -recorded version of iron sharpens iron radio every day.

And the last but not least Pastor Nate pickle wits who we just had on very recently.

In fact, it was on Tuesday of this week.

We had him on the program discussing reviving New England.

And he is also pastor of Harvest Bible Church and Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire.

If you would like to join me at the Fellowship Conference, New England in Portland, Maine go to

fellowship conference New England calm.

Fellowship conference New England calm and register then after that November 17th through the 18th in

Quakertown, Pennsylvania the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their Quakertown

Conference on Reform Theology at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania

featuring Kent Hughes Peter Jones Tom Nettles Dennis Cahill and

Scott Oliphant.

If you'd like to join me at The Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology which has its as its

theme this year for still our ancient foe a line from a Mighty Fortress

by Martin Luther.

If you'd like to join me there go to Alliance net org Alliance net org

click on events and then click on Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology.

Then we have the g3 conference returning to Atlanta, Georgia January 18th

through the 20th with a Spanish edition of the conference on the

before the English conference on January 17th.

The speakers at the English conference include Paul Walsh or Stephen Lawson Votie Balcom HB Charles jr

Tim Challis Josh Bias James White Tom Askell Anthony Mathenia Michael Kruger David Miller Paul

trip Todd Friel Derek Thomas and Martha.

The theme is knowing God a biblical understanding of discipleship.

If you would like to join me January 18th through the 20th at the g3 conference in Atlanta.

Go to g3 conference calm g3 conference calm now.

I'd like to do something.

Well, I actually I have to do something.

I don't like doing it, but I've been urged by my advertisers to do this

Regularly and that is make a public appeal for donations and new advertisers.

It makes me very uncomfortable to ask you for money but if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to

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sharpens iron radio, but if you are blessed with the ability to do both of those things

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Click on support and then you will have an address where you can mail a check for any

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Just send me an email with advertising in the subject line and I would love to talk to you about that as soon as possible.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And that's also the email address for you to ask questions for our guest Dan Phillips on

The topic we are going to be discussing any minute now God's wisdom and Proverbs.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and As you know brother

before we went to the break We had a listener in

Slovenia Joe Who asks my question is related to

ecumenism and turning the world upside down?

I love the quote from Martin Lloyd -Jones when he said in response to those who are gloating over the growing

Ecumenical movement of his day you seem to be arguing that if you succeed in bringing together a sufficient number of dead

bodies They will come alive.

What does brother Phillips have to say about this quote in light of the Apostle Paul's teaching in first Corinthians that true

believers and true?

Churches must be separate from and avoid partnerships with full false forms of Christianity

and paganism.

Yeah.

Radio ministries so many don't make that clear.

Thank you very much.

Do you mind my saying um that I should be in Pennsylvania and

very?

Township.

Wow.

Well, I'm gonna try to make it a point to be there.

Oh, wow, I've had him on the program as well.

He's such a good guy.

We we were at a conference together earlier in Ohio and First time I met him what a great guy.

To answer the brothers make the

gospel at

and

declaration see their their idea was is

to do that.

But the troubles.

Yes, I'd actually did

it.

I did a program on that years ago some of the people who signed that declaration

to me, but that's something where I'm pretty much of a Fire

-breather that a church

didn't stop using that word.

But it's a biblical word and I'm not willing to give it up.

Treat him like a brother somebody who's

in the Orthodox Church.

Somebody who's in Roman Catholic Church.

Somebody who's in an apostate denomination.

I don't mean just apostate because they they don't thought this I or cross this T just like I do.

I'm talking about central issues of the gospel and

Rome in clear right in

the gospel.

That's my brief answer.

I've been getting too long answers.

I'm afraid no, that's quite all right.

I prefer you give longer answers.

It's much easier for me to interrupt you than to pull teeth and.

And believe me I've had some interviews not lately but years ago where I've had to really

arduously labor at pulling Answers out of my guests even some from some

pride some surprisingly brilliant people that whose names you would recognize.

But obviously I'm not.

You're thinking so, did you want to do this interview.

Did you?

Well, thank you Joe in Slovenia and you won the final copy of the book

that we have been addressing the world tilting gospel

embracing a biblical worldview and hanging on tight by our guest Dan Phillips.

And Thank you for providing an address here in the United States where your daughter lives in Georgia

where Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can much more affordably mail you this book and

thanks again for making our Discussions more interesting and lively through your thoughtful

questions.

Joe keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio in Slovenia and beyond.

And now we are moving To a new topic we're shifting courses here.

We're going to be discussing God's wisdom and Proverbs.

What a beautiful book.

I tell you crests biblical resources.

I did a great job with the binding and everything on this.

This is a gorgeous a gorgeous hardback book looks like a

Textbook in a very prestigious seminary or something.

But it's a really well laid out book.

I know that this may sound like a silly questions because Proverbial wisdom is

something that all people seem to be drawn to and unfortunately

Some folks are drawn to proverbial Statements and

philosophies that are non -biblical and anti biblical.

But even even the lost very often will be

Intrigued and comforted or Be drawn

to The wisdom in the book of Proverbs in the holy scriptures even even

sometimes the unregenerate as I said but if you could tell us what was the compelling factor that drew you

to consider writing this book to begin with.

It's also available in the great.

Well, I've loved

in your

life your

marriage your family

and it is possible to read that were a manual and I've

seen it done I mean will turn out

Godly guaranteed and

probably

missionaries,

you know, or good help for that.

But probably you're violating one of the principles in this book and you've got to find those principles.

And you've got

to work them

to be read

according to what the

genre of Proverbs is.

You don't read Poetry for instance like you read a narrative.

You don't read a narrative like you read a letter from your wife.

You don't read a letter for your wife like you read an instruction manual in a in a TV box.

These are different kinds of literature and you got to read them according to their rules not according to something you put on

it.

So that's the first thing.

Second thing is I Make a fair bit out of something that I discovered in

appreciating the genre of Proverbs that the whole book is presented as.

An.

Inclusio and inclusio is a literary device where you you sound.

A note at the beginning of a work

was

about Come to Proverbs and they pick up this proverb in that part of like it was so many

so many

after

nine which begins

the first.

I Turned to

the last chapter to see

that poem about the the powerful godly woman.

And what do you see in verse 30 Proverbs 31 30?

Quoted that a

hundred times.

Charm is the

section of the book fear of

Gatwick

formulas for success in life.

The whole book is about how to live in a God -fearing manner how to live my life in the

fear of God and.

And that really affects the way you read any part of and we

already have a listener.

With a question here.

Our friend Jenny from Ben Salem, Pennsylvania has joined us again with a question this time

on Proverbs and She says what a wise choice to have brother Phillips today.

My question about.

My question about God's wisdom and Proverbs regards the parallelism in chapter

26 Verse 4 and 5.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly or you will also be like him answer a fool as

He is as his folly deserves That he not be wise in his own eyes.

Please explain how to discern when to apply which half of this Parallelism not

always easy is it.

Maybe some actual or hypothetical examples will be helpful.

Thank you for sharpening us in God's wisdom our Lord Jesus Christ today.

Because obviously

you can't take either of those proverbs as if it were a freestanding apply this

in all situations law because they do formally contradict each other,

but

they

they teach us

the print

and the temptation

you on his own terms and

Then be surprised when you don't end up at a godly conclusion.

I think that's what evidential apologetics does.

I think that's what a lot of people do when they they deal wrongly with Issues of creation

and geo geo history that

they

excel

materialism

to do demo

work.

So they're a good illustration that you've got to take each proverb in its own On its own terms and not

try to make a an universal law out of every problem.

That some problems are universal law and we discern some of those things by comparing it against the whole of

Scripture.

Like the fear of Yahweh is the beginning wisdom that is universally true.

But these verses obviously are.

1320 is another example that No, I

don't mean even as enemies.

You know, that's the principle that we need to put our relationship with God first

as God Controls the spirit in any way

he wishes so he can make people be at peace with us.

But if you try to apply that as a law What

does that come

to apply?

Well, thank you a Jenny you have won a free copy of this gorgeous book

God's wisdom and Proverbs by our guest Dan Phillips, and that is a compliments of our friends

at crest Biblical resources and I'll be shipped out to you compliments of our friends at CV

bbs .com.

That's CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm who sponsor on a sharpens iron

radio and we thank Todd and Patty Jennings for supporting iron sharpens iron

radio and whenever you hear a book being Mentioned on iron sharpens

iron radio Please order it through CV a bbs .com CV bbs

.com.

We would love to see them supporting this program for years to come should God permit that we

continue on the airwaves and we have

a Listener in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

BB.

Who says.

I know that it is more rare today for conservative Christians to be

against women working outside the home but how would you

respond to such a person in light of Proverbs 31, which is

the famous proverb describing an ideal woman and

among those things that she does is She considers a field and buys it.

And other things that would give one the impression that she is not merely just a homebody.

Although the psalm is replete with things that she does in the home.

She seems to be very much like a very successful modern woman in many ways.

How would you?

Describe that to those who think that women should never be involved in employment outside

their own household.

Well, I'm in

Proverbs 30 in

this idealized

portrait

out of

initiative

an excellent wife who can find she is far more precious than June.

He'll have no lack of gain.

She does him good and not harm all the days of her life.

This woman.

As you read through the poem you realize that she engages in business and activities from which she gets a lot

of Satisfaction a lot of joy and her husband children affirm her at the end of the of the poem They

rise up verse 28 or children rise up in our blessing.

Her husband also and praises her.

Many women have done excellently.

She does she

doesn't do

to try to

establish

her own

independent

identity

working

across her

team.

Well, thanks, baby for the excellent question.

You've also won a free copy of God's wisdom in Proverbs by Dan Phillips Complements

of crests biblical resources and that will be shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book

Service CV BBS comm.

So thanks a lot for your question.

We have a question from Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York and Ronald

says you were mentioning that we should never view the Bible or the book

of Proverbs specifically as a Book featuring lists of things we

do that have guarantees attached for them Attached to them for a better life.

How do you respond though that to the fact that there are Proverbs that seem to read that

way and although?

Ephesians is in the New Testament.

It has a Has a proverbial sound to it.

When we read in chapter 6 verses 1 and 2 children obey your parents in the Lord for this

is right honor your father and mother which is the First commandment with a promise so that it may

be well with you and that you may have may live long on the earth.

I know of Children that were the apple of their parents eyes who were

obedient and Christlike Who were taken off this earth?

Even before the prime of their life, how does this?

Promise coincide with with what occurs in the lives of many people we know and love.

That's a really great question.

That's a very perceptive question.

So let me come at that from a few different angles.

First of all, I feel Bible churches a bunch

of really wonderful folks and anyone's ever in Houston.

We've got our sermon audio and I preached through the

bomb and in those sermons and I do talk about that question

so let me try to give a Brief, but so

Proverbs one of the things you have to do is you have to read it in its Canonical setting and it's

setting in terms of God's unfolding program.

It was not written under the new covenant.

It wasn't written under the even the way it covenant.

It was written under the mosaic of God said that there would be certain material blessings

as the people walked.

He said that they would in

their fields and in their barns and their families if they walked and if

they didn't and went off After other idols and so forth and they would they would know his opposition.

So Proverbs falls in that niche time.

Of course the fear of Yahweh is right

from chapter one on there is the fact that if you walk According to God God can make the world

Work in your in your interests or if you walk in opposition to him He can he can turn everything against

you.

And so those are general principles

and a

lot of

the way

walking up to

his

town him

out.

Oh, he doesn't have to worry about venereal diseases.

He doesn't need to worry about Bill collectors because of the gambling debt he's run up or the things that he's

done in a drunken Frenzy, you know and and so all of these things are things that we take for

granted.

If we've lived with the Lord for some time into the fact that the world doesn't work.

It's still God's world here if God

is spared but at the same time Proverbs does

wreck successful

thing so many verses tell the son to pay attention

and to listen and to remember these words and lay them Up to heart

worked automatically someone need to do anything.

It just worked like magic, you know, like some formula out of Harry Potter.

Also Proverbs warns that it's possible to be godly and poor and He says better

is the the poor godly man than somebody who's ungodly that has great.

Well, so Proverbs Acknowledges the fact that hard things can happen to godly

people and that's kind of where another wisdom literature book lives.

Proverbs lives in one corner of the wisdom literature.

Neighborhood Job the living example of what your what your

friend there has asked about because Job was a guy who did do everything right and Everything went wrong and it was

because of reasons that he had no idea about and the council of God.

He's come along like people who take Proverbs as a book of legal formulas.

Right his three friends say to him.

Okay X Y & Z has happened to you.

The only reason that would happen to you is because the sin is if you're working this godly thing, right?

You'd be having a happy life and happy family.

So she can go back to having a fundamental

misunderstanding on their part.

Well, thank you.

Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island for the great question.

You've also won a free copy of God's wisdom and Proverbs by Dan Phillips.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you.

By the way, I know that Jenny and Ben Salem Pennsylvania at least today is not

guilty of Violating the command of God thou shalt not steal because she says.

She emails me.

I didn't send in that question on Proverbs.

It must be another Jenny or someone else.

You're absolutely you're absolutely right Jenny.

It was Joe from Slovenia again and and his Email was right on top of

yours.

So I got the two names confused.

I Thank you for your honesty.

So Joe from Slovenia you are getting that second book today.

You are getting God's wisdom and Proverbs and we thank you again for the American address.

Where we are shipping this to your daughter in Georgia.

And by the way, let me remind you Joe in Slovenia, please Try to make a

vacation arrangement to visit the States visit your daughter in Georgia

during the g3 conference from the 18th through the 20th of January so I can meet you face

to face and have some fellowship with You and don't forget about that g3 conference.

In Atlanta, January 18th through the 20th go to g3 conference.

Calm g3 conference.

Calm we're going to our final break right now and If anybody would like to join us our email

address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

I advise you you email us quickly because we are rapidly running out of time.

And before I go to the break, I'm gonna read a question For Dan and you can

answer it when we return from the break.

Dan RJ in White Plains, New York says I have

heard different interpretations for the proverb.

For the proverb that is the source for the name of your show iron sharpens iron.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 Iron sharpens iron so one man

sharpens another.

Would your guest please exegete that passage since I have heard different Interpretations of what that

actually means.

That's a great question.

Thank you RJ and we'll have Dan Phillips answer that question when we return from the break and

Once again, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God willing.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnsett and this is the last 15 minutes or so of our program today with Dan Phillips.

We are discussing The book that he wrote titled God's wisdom and Proverbs.

And if you'd like to join us We would ask that you do so immediately because we're running out of time.

Our email address for a question is Chris Arnsett at gmail .com.

Chris Arnsett at gmail .com.

And as you know right before the break Dan our RJ in White Plains, New York

wanted you to exegete Proverbs 27 verse 17 Iron sharpens iron so one man

sharpens another because he has heard different interpretations of that text.

So you're sitting there and?

Suspense wondering if you're gonna have to change the name of your radio show.

I will not change my my title either way because.

Sometimes I get those who disagree to learn from each other as Matthew Henry

Exegeted that text and sometimes I get people really angry.

So that would be the other way.

I've heard this is this is supposed to be understood.

Fairly literally, it says.

Iron sharpens iron and

the man sharpens

the edge of a sword the edge of a sword

of his friend.

He's your

actual

reading

that reads the Hebrew.

Well, thank you RJ and you have also won a free copy of God's wisdom and Proverbs.

And so please make sure we have your mailing address.

So that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com can ship that out to you.

And once again, we thank Cress biblical resources for these books.

What have been some of the.

Proverbs that have had the greatest impact on your life and ministry personally

and you

understand it.

And in fact, I have a I have a whole chapter devoted to that in the book.

It just is a revolutionary actually

it dovetails

with the

message

of the Bible

isn't stuck.

Instead it starts with the reality of God and

Takes it from there so that's where wisdoms to be.

And that that is the whole message of the other book the world hope in

gospel that.

But what

what

you'll be

saved?

But Solomon's way of saying is that attitude that sees God

as sovereign and absolute derived and dependent.

We have.

Let's see, we have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

Who says don't you think that both the Proverbs and the Psalms? dispel the

myth that unfortunately many Christians continue to perpetrate that the

God of the Old Testament is a meaner more wrathful and

Fire -breathing God than the God of the New Testament who is more kind and merciful and patient.

Yet at the same time they would understand of course that there is only one God.

Don't the Proverbs and the Psalms Show completely how patient and

loving and merciful God has always been both in the Old and New Covenants.

Yes, the God of

the Old

Testament

your kinder gentler God of Jesus.

And so I have to admit that.

Well, that's what I knew about it.

And so I was a little worried.

What was I

gonna run

into.

And

there's

love for his

child and talks about

yeah.

Please love.

Same terms.

And says the reason why we feel this discipline is because he loves us.

Well, thank you.

CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

You are also getting a copy of God's wisdom and Proverbs by Dan Phillips.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address So Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you as

soon as possible.

Let's see here.

We have Arnie and Perry County, Pennsylvania.

Who asks what are some of the most difficult?

Proverbs for you to understand the full meaning of.

This is Arnie, so it's a man

Arnie.

Yeah,

I'm

sorry,

but I

really don't.

When I studied that was my experience.

When I preached in pop and I preached it I had the first of all, I had to Understand the

structure.

I had to understand the the central thoughts so that I could translate into a sermon and

commentary and When I got to chapter 10, that was that was

challenging going to the gym every week in the

sermon.

But it was a delight and I'd say I don't feel like I understand any of the

verses that I haven't studied.

Not think that I

have mastered this book.

In fact, one of the things on my bucket list I would like to do before I die if I'm spared is I would

like to write a commentary on Proverbs.

And that's of course our difficult

Have a

whole.

Appendix.

Dedicated to Proverbs 22.

Proverbs certainly train up a child in the way.

He should go even when he is old.

He will not

art made the Bible reading with him.

Even though now he's off drinking and whoring and wants nothing to do with Jesus.

They're sure he's going to come back one day because.

Yeah, I've heard some Exegete that to mean that if you train a child

according to its proclivities or his or her proclivities They're never going to depart from those

Proclivities whether they're good or bad, so it's not Necessarily something that is

a pleasant Offer of hope it's more of a rebuke.

I've heard that from some.

What are your feelings about that interpretation?

And that's

the

Brodman

Holden version,

yes, that's

right.

That's right.

He will not depart from it.

That's very like the version I give now his way that's what Solomon says start out a youth on

his way.

It doesn't say God's way.

It says his way and the nearest Noun is the youth the young man.

Well, what is the way of the child in Proverbs?

Foolishness foolishness is bound up in the heart of the child, right?

But the rod of discipline drives as far from him Solomon says and on and on so His way is going to be a

foolish way and what Solomon is saying is he's warning parents if you

Accustomed to getting his own way.

That's the opposite.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Who asks.

I know this is a bit off topic, but knowing that your guest is from the Bible Belt.

I was wondering if the difficulties that he faces reaching those who

they believe Themselves are Christian, but our fault that are but are sadly deluded

is a great Challenge for him and his church in Houston, Texas.

Well now you're from the Bible.

So, yeah, it came

in candidate and the kind of

questions I got.

I knew I was gonna have

people I've met and talked to It

under the gospel

and about what it

means to live as

a Christian.

Be a Christian.

If it's true that you believe in Jesus.

Yeah, I.

Remember I remember having a conversation years ago with an

elderly Presbyterian brother from Mississippi and When he heard I was from New

York, he said to me Brother you got it easy.

Because up and up in New York holes you gotta do is get people saved.

We gotta get them lost and then get them.

Well, I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the.

Air.

Because that's that is where God meets us

and standing having a

real we see everything and if we find that we don't see everything.

And if you could in 60 seconds since we began this program with the gospel

I'd like you to just present the gospel in 60 seconds for our listeners.

Amen.

And if anybody wants to investigate or research how to visit Copperfield Bible Church in Houston,

Texas Go to Copperfield Bible Church org.

Copperfield Bible Church org.

Thank you so much pastor Dan for being on the program.

I look forward to you coming back soon.

In fact, if you could hold on I would like to pick another date to interview you.

Monday we have the entire band of Adams Road who are all ex -mormons who

have come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ the musical ministry of Adams Road.

All members will be live here in studio Monday, July 3rd.

And I hope you all have a safe and God -honoring 4th of July weekend.

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.