Trusting Elites, Disparaging Christians on Shots

The Problem of Evangelical Elites and the Covid Narrative

Welcome to conversations that matter podcast. My name is John Harris. We're gonna dive right into it real quick today. Last week I was away I was visiting family and people were sending me some of the stuff we're gonna look at but I hadn't seen it.

So now I want to talk about it because I I started skimming through some of the stuff that's on my list and I was like Oh, man, this is kind of it's sad, but it's kind of funny and it shows something.

I think the lesson we're gonna see with some of the things we're looking at is that there's there's a certain variety of. At least they think of themselves of an intellectual but these intellectual Evangelical elites who are primarily social justice minded a lot of them, but there's a certain kind of like There's a strong assumption that they have like really strong and like emotional attachments identity is involved in this.

You can't really argue with it because it's an article of faith and that's really the takeaway trusting in the Prevailing kovat narrative and the treatments that we're supposed to to trust. That is an article of faith now to such an extent.

You can't even Get someone to look at it in any kind of semi objective manner doesn't say hey, like can we look at numbers? Can we can you look at some of the things that may be of concern here? Can we compare it to maybe other treatments that aren't are safe and have been proven safe for years and maybe they're working better.

Is there is there any reason we can have not really and I think it's because of what I'm about to show you to be in the good graces of those who are secular elites and those who hold the power is. It's like an article of faith.

It is like it is what some of these evangelical elites live for. It really is and I've seen this over the course of years. I wouldn't be saying this unless I have just noticed this over the course of years and Sometimes they can even say some of the right things.

But then they they do the bidding somehow they move whenever they're practically moving. People or inspiring people to act in a certain way they always move the arrow towards the left and it towards those who are in power elites in power and They don't represent their constituents.

And this is a good example of that. You have Russell Moore and you have Daniel Darling both formerly with the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention and so often. They did things that were counter religious liberty and counter ethics against ethics.

Or they move the arrow in those directions and and they've kept doing it. Russell Moore's with Christianity today. I'm Daniel Darling's probably looking for a job right now. We'll talk about why. But here's the first thing I want to share with you Russell Moore a batch of breakthrough kovat has hit our house.

Maria felt okay. The older vaccinated boys were fine all along. I get you know, it's because they were vaccinated. That's the insinuation. I Feel like I've been run over by a bulldozer. Now this is the same Russell Moore who posted himself double masked with a Lord of the Rings hobbit mask and on the top and he said this hobbits been vaccinated and He's saying now he feels like he's been run over by a bulldozer, okay, not exactly your poster child for vaccines.

But but but we go on here and he says still that's nothing compared to what others are experiencing around the world. He's grateful and then he follows it up. The numbers are showing us the rates of vaccinated people hospitalized is tiny deaths even more.

So I'm glad to be vaccinated but plead with you all to do so, too. Just think to yourself for a moment if you Were the poster child are trying to promote a certain treatment and it didn't work. Or it's not working.

Well, would you be posting about it? I mean, I'm just saying What's the point of this like if you're really? If you really think it works, why are you want to promote that it works? Why are you telling people?

I feel like I got run over by a bulldozer and it gets funnier. So you start scrolling down this and you start reading the comments and you start coming up with these. Thank you for having the wisdom to get vaccinated.

I hope more evangelicals will follow your example. You want them to be feeling like they got run over by a bulldozer? Here's the thing the assumption is a lot of been so much worse if I didn't get the treatment.

If I didn't get that shot man, I would have been dead and How do you reason with that? It's an article of faith at that point. There's no disproving it because no matter what happens no matter what bad thing happens.

It could be the result of the shot they're still going to say well, I would have been much worse if we didn't get it and. And I showed some numbers. I I showed some studies at least that are indicating that look if you already had it.

Then you have immunity more so than getting this. These shots will give you You. Your body's kind of it's cool. Your body's cool like that. I got designed it that way and There's other things the things that like were recommended during SARS kovat one like 2004 2005 that you can do.

That will help you Combat this and it is real and it'll help you. And I've mentioned some of those those treatments but It's like you put that on the shelf don't even talk about it that's crazy talk only focus on the approved big pharma.

You know salute supposed solution to this other comments grateful you all are vaccinated. Yeah, there you go. There's one there Grateful you are vaccinated get rest. I Hope you'll inspire others to get vaccinated.

Just picture this Russell Moore on his deathbed feeling like he got run over by a truck now I can say this because he he's recovered as far as I know, which is good for him. But he's feeling like he got run over by a truck and he's now.

Inspiring others to get vaccinated that yeah that image just doesn't inspire us. But this is in my mind. This is just twisted thinking. It's just they're not it doesn't cause them to think like maybe it didn't work.

Hey, maybe it just Didn't do what it was supposed to do or it's not as effective as it should be. Maybe. Maybe there were some other solutions that were being talked about that might be better. No. It's it's this.

There's a class of people that they'll believe whatever The the elites tell them and they want to be in their good graces in their favor. And that's I can say that because I've been watching these people for so many years now.

But but it just it gets it gets them into these twisted weird spots like this. So I thought it was kind of funny, but I'd share it with you. All right, let's watch this this a little bit of it. I don't know if I want to go through this whole thing.

This is kind of becoming controversial this guy Daniel darling who used to be with the ERLC. Was the senior vice president of communications for the National Religious Broadcasters and now? Well, okay.

He wrote this article for USA Today called why as a Christian and American I got the kovat vaccine as an American and Basically, I'll read for you. He says yeah, we can't trust anyone basically, but in spite of this he trusts the vaccine and it's one of them discovering the technology is one of the most amazing feats and in modern history and many Christians worked on it and He doesn't want to see anyone else die from kovat.

I guess the implication is if you don't get it that that's what's gonna happen. Our family has lost too many close friends even their piano teacher and. And as a Christian and American he's proud to get it and so this is all like this is playing on identity and emotion.

It's emotion. It's all emotion. It's just it's look at these people who designed it some of them are Christians. Okay, you feel kinship with them because of that there's an attachment there. Relatability and then in addition to that well, hey look.

The it's a great breakthrough amazing Innovation that that we've come up with and it should just inspire you as an American. I mean, there's no there's no real talking about Testing numbers potential side effects other treatments.

None of that and and that's what we're missing in this whole thing. So anyway, he goes on morning Joe. This is a you know, very liberal show on MSNBC. And you think you know, I always say you think this is the time that you know, give them the gospel, right?

This is the time. But let's see how this shakes out.

Why Daniel Darling’s Morning Joe Interview Misses the Gospel Opportunity

Talk about your faith and the role it played in you making that decision.

Well, I think there's two things to think about. I think one one of them is This idea that we are to love our neighbors and one of the things we do when we get a vaccine is we not only protect ourselves, but we also do our part in keeping our neighbor our part from spreading the vaccine or spreading the The the virus and hurting our neighbors.

Secondly, I also think um You know the the way to persuade people, uh to get a vaccine is not going to come top down. It's not going to come from uh sort of Elites, but it's going to come from people closest to people.

Uh, they're doctors. They're pharmacists. They're pastors. Uh, as I said, there's a great deficit of trust here in this country. Much of it is earned because our institutions have failed us in many ways.

And yet this is one area where I do think we can be confident that the vaccine works, uh, it has had rigorous protocols. It's a uniquely american success story with our companies coming together and we've had a bipartisan push on it president trump Helped shepherd this vaccine through and then president biden is helping Us to get the vaccine out and so I really encourage folks.

I don't shame anyone into getting it. I know it's a very big decision to put a foreign substance into your body. It's all new but I do encourage folks to talk to their doctor and really consider it just because Uh, we we just don't want to see anyone else unnecessarily die of this lethal virus.

Okay, a few things there, um that I just wanted to comment on he doesn't shame anyone into it, but yet He's doing this because he loves his neighbor. Um. He doesn't want to see anyone die uh, he's convinced, uh that this is positive and it works and um and and so I don't know what you're supposed to feel about that if you didn't take it.

He also says That it's elites um, the elites pushing this isn't going to work, but then you're you know writing from the pages of usa today and is it's it's just um, and you're on msnbc talking about it like I don't.

What's the point if that's not going to work to convince people elites talking on elite networks and elite magazines i'm, not sure. It just I don't know. I don't know. What what's the point of all this?

Um, I will say this. Could it be that daniel darling? I mean, I don't want to start a conspiracy here, but Is it possible that maybe he spread the covid? Uh to russell moore who then got it despite the fact that they both got the um the shot, um, I I don't know but I and I don't have anything to back it up.

But neither does neither do they on a lot of things they say so I feel justified. All right. Let's just let's go a little farther with this. I don't want to go too long. Um, Because I got to keep this short, but uh, let's just see what what else uh, he might have to say here.

Conspiracy Theories, Trust, and Catechesis Among Evangelicals

So dan I've asked this question before of other evangelicals that have come on this show and what I don't understand about many of my friends and family members are the The conspiracy theories that they seem to be more prone to on facebook.

Um, Uh, you know as I say we we as evangelicals believe we have the greatest story ever told. As the foundation of our lives we really don't need some christian chinese some some uh, chinese religious cult.

Uh sending conspiracy theories across the world to influence us. We don't need Conspiracy theories on facebook, uh to wrap our arms around. Why is it that Many of our fellow brothers and sisters Are not listening to their pastors.

Not listening to their doctors. Not following the words of jesus do unto others as you would have them do unto you uh, and instead I mean and not listening to their family members. Uh, and instead clinging to lies that are spread on facebook.

What what explains this? It's deeply disturbing to me. What explains that people of the evangelical faith, especially?

Well, I do think actually there's some good news, uh, Vaccine hesitancy among evangelicals has dropped significantly and actually if you follow the work of someone like ryan verge of eastern Illinois university a sociologist actually evangelicals are not the most hesitant, uh cohort.

There's hesitancy among young people who have no faith. There's some hesitancy among african-american populations. Um, but secondly, I do think the reason why there's vaccine hesitancy and there's a tendency to believe conspiracy theories is twofold.

I think first of all, as I said, there's a definite deficit of trust in our institutions and when when trust goes down Belief and conspiracies goes up. Number two. I think many of us are more. Um, discipled and catechized by our uh, political pundits and people we prefer on the left and the right than we are by scripture and I think we Need to return to uh, really being discipling by our being discipled by our faith.

And so I I'm I there is good news though. Anecdotally in my world a lot of folks who have been very hesitant are getting the vaccine. Uh, and i'm hearing from pastors around the country that that's the case as well.

But he wouldn't want to shame anyone into getting it, right? Uh, it's just that if you follow the words of jesus, you'll get it and. If you don't then you're listening to your political pundits. I mean, that's the ed stetzer talking point, right?

Uh, this is the whole like well the reason christians are um, basically Conservative basically, that's usually how it comes down. The reason that they're the way they are. Is it's really just because they're watching fox news and tucker carlson and they're listening too much to tucker carlson.

And um, and that's why they're they're concerned about critical race theory. Remember that from ed stetzer and and he's doing the same kind of play here. Uh, it's it's actually really offensive. It's like you're you're choosing tucker carlson over jesus is kind of the insinuation and um.

And so, you know, he's on he's saying this on msmbc again writing from the usa today, I mean he's Certainly involved with these more progressive publications and I mean he's followed up and we're going to go to that in a minute and Writing for I think it was usa today or somewhere else a liberal publication.

And what I I don't understand why why is it that? You know, they're he doesn't defend his fellow evangelicals other than to say well, no, no, they're coming around to your side. Uh, they're they're they're starting to to believe what what joe believes on msmbc.

He doesn't contradict morning joe and say hey, look, uh, joe, mr. Joe scarborough. You know, I understand your concern, but I just want you to know that you know christians they might see things differently the ones that are hesitant about this and They uh, or and not just assume that it's all a big conspiracy theory and not just let joe accuse them of Um, not following jesus.

It's a pretty big accusation. The christians are supposed to follow jesus, right? So if if they're not following jesus in the sense that they're hesitant about a uh, this treatment because They think actually it's not loving and I made a whole post about this I i'm trying to love my neighbors by not doing this by um.

Warning them of the the things that are coming out about it by telling them about the other treatments that exist that could help. Uh, maybe maybe that's how we're supposed to do this, but they're the the door is shut to all of that.

That you're not even allowed to entertain those ideas at all, uh seeking wisdom diligently not going to happen. It's only there's only the person who has the wisdom is the person who um is in charge with the force to implement mandates and It's the elite institutions as well.

Uh, and that they have a force called peer pressure and um, and so it's I don't know. It's just it's just sad to me. It's just just like What's the point of even having an evangelical go and talk if that's what they're going to say if they're just going to?

Repeat the same kinds of things. Um and and back up whatever the elites are saying. Why not have someone who's going on there and is going to defend christianity? Uh and and christians and um and their interests and also, uh is going to actually seek the truth and do it do so diligently and um.

And and and be unique a little this is just so. Uh, I mean I I could just I don't need to get this from daniel darling I could just get this from joe. He could talk to himself and do a monologue and we get the same thing pretty much, um.

Why why be that way? Why not give them the gospel when you you have the opportunity? Why not? Uh represent something eternal. Um, I don't know. It's just such a big platform and there's so many people watching that aren't Saved and I I just can't imagine.

Uh being in that platform and I mean, I I guess there's there's certain times maybe you're you're you know out of time and you don't don't get to share the truth of christianity, but Oh, man, I just I can't imagine I would I would be like chomping at the bit.

It's time to share the gospel. We're on msnbc. Wow. Look what god did. Um, let's move on from this though. Um, let's go to um. Let's go to this. Oh, this was a reaction. So so what happened apparently?

Is that daniel darling got fired from national religious broadcasters because apparently they have a policy. You're not supposed to take a side on the covid stuff so then this this. This guy, this is only a two minute video.

Uh his name. What is his name? Uh, i'm forgetting his name. He's on the resolutions committee for the sbc or he was. Um, he anyway, wait, he'll probably say what his name is. Hold on. Hey guys, uh bart barber bart barber, that's right pastor bart barber.

Bart Barber’s Defense of Daniel Darling and the SBC Double Standard

Uh recognized his face. I couldn't recognize I couldn't remember his name off the top of my head. Okay, so bart barber. This is the guy who invited dwight mckissick to preach at his church On the resolutions committee for the sbc pushing all the stuff that was pushed last time around um I I know i've seen him several times on twitter.

He he tends to defend the social justice side of things. He's kind of I I guess I would consider him more of a company man in the sbc and um. And so this is this is his reaction to this whole deal, uh.

That happened on msnbc.

Into the workday i'm out here at the farm. I want to respond and react to the news. Uh dan darling. Uh, who's this national spokesman for the national religious broadcasters association? He wrote an article and went on the news to encourage people to Respect one another's choices about vaccination.

Uh, he said that he understood why some people had reservations about the covid vaccine. But also say that he himself had been vaccinated to give his rationale for being vaccinated and uh to encourage people to respect one another's freedom of conscience.

For that today the national religious broadcasters association fired him. Fired him without severance left his family without income. For suggesting that we respect one another's conscience. And for saying why he himself got vaccinated and encourages other people to be vaccinated you know.

I'm gonna stop it right there and say really that's that's the message that he was saying. That's that really was his thrust to respect one another's conscience. No, I don't I don't think so um I want you to remember another name though.

Bobby lopez. I want you to remember that name. Some of you might uh who've been following this channel for a while. You know that name because bobby lopez was fired from southwestern baptist theological seminary.

And part of the reason was because and we have the recordings he Um was sharing his testimony and his testimony included being saved out of a homosexual Lifestyle and having a family being redeemed and he believed that you didn't have to stay in that orientation and Where were the barbers of the world at that time?

Or how about the russell moores russell moore also commented on this a bunch of people commented. I haven't gathered them all Uh to show you but uh, we're just appalled that dan darling would have been fired for breaking the policy.

And yet you have a man like robert oscar lopez who for a much more serious much more related to christianity reason Uh was let go of an institution in a much more disturbing manner and no one lifts a finger.

No one think that thinks that's crazy. It's amazing to me. It really is and it shows the utter hypocrisy. The spc can't be saved. As a denomination when it's people like this who are running it. The pressure only runs in one direction.

If you're on the left. Then you have immunity in the spc. You got to be pretty far left. To get any kind of criticism. It's almost impossible to be criticized if you're on the left in the spc and you at least say.

Even if you lie about it, you say that you agree with their statement of faith. But if you're on the right at all. And if you even if you just aren't a company man, if you just decide, you know what i'm sharing my testimony.

And my testimony includes being saved out of a homosexual lifestyle. My testimony includes That I I I believe in scripture teaches I my mind that you don't have to stay in that lifestyle. You don't have to have those desires and i'm not going to ask for permission to share my testimony.

That's unreasonable. I'm a professor at a university and you get fired for it. Now that no one says lifts a finger for that. Doesn't really seem to matter. Russell fuller doesn't seem to matter really what happened to him.

It doesn't seem to matter if someone disparages people at founders ministries. Um doesn't seem to matter if vodie bockham is raked over the coals. He's not even spc really john mccarthur could be part of that too.

They're not really spc but um Paige patterson, I mean we saw what happened there. I mean, there's all the grace in the world for Uh, the hannah cates, right? Um for Uh, the dan darlings for the russell moores for the walter strickland's for the jarvis williams for the danny akins.

For anyone that's pushing the left the the envelope towards the left all the grace in the world all the understanding but when it comes to uh. To to conservatives who want to actually take a stand and they actually are taking a stand and saying i'm standing on the word of God here not talking about covid vaccine not talking about something else.

I'm talking about something directly related to what the word of god says. There's no one there to support them this i'm telling you this is For a lot of people in the spc. This is kind of the environment that they live in.

And this is just another example of it. And um, so I just wanted to expose that and just say Where were you bart barber when bobby lopez was fired and russell fuller was fired. Where were you? All right.

Church Unity, Conscience, and the Charge of Division

Um. Do I want to finish this video? No, I don't think I want to finish this video. I don't think well. Should we go on? Yeah, let's go on just a little more just a little more.

It's really not even about dan. And fundamentally, it's not even about covid or about the vaccine. It's about the fact that I mean when I respond to this I can't help but think about The work that pastors like me are doing all across this country to try to keep our churches from being divided over the question of this vaccine and this disease.

We're working constantly to try to get members of our churches to do just what dan said. Feel free to have opinions feel free to articulate them but respect one another's freedom of conscience. And it's all the more difficult to do that because some of these religious broadcasters are filling our church members heads full of lies and conspiracy theory crap.

That causes them to come into our churches and fight with one another. I'm not even i'm not gonna finish this this this is.

What are the source of quarrels among you? Quoting from james, um. It's conspiracy theories from religious broadcasters on the right. That's what it is. I mean if you want to talk about this is the absurdity of this absolutely absurd absurd and he doesn't even see it.

And it's it's it should be angering for those in the sbc. I mean. That you have guys like this on your resolutions committee. Um. He's accusing. He's actually pointing the finger and he's not even naming names.

He's just Saying that there's these religious broadcasters out there promoting conspiracy theories. And they're the ones causing division yet. He can't even look himself in the mirror and realize he in this moment as he's doing this bart barber's causing division.

Bart barber is Saying a whole class of people who listens to whoever these religious broadcasters are. Uh are the they're the ones guilty of division. So he's making a division in his mind between those who are causing division he thinks and those who are opposed to division and supposedly.

Uh, dan darling is he's opposed to division even though he insinuates and goes along. With joe scarborough saying basically, you know, they're not following jesus because they don't have the vaccine. Apparently that's not causing division.

But what causes division are people who are skeptical about it and rightfully so. It's disgusting this. And what he's what he's talking about is absolutely true that him and other pastors. Oh, they work so hard to keep their churches together.

And that's and that's the problem. They're working so hard to try to keep their churches from splitting instead of pursuing the truth. I don't want churches to split but you know what they have to be united around the truth.

Yeah. And are there secondary issues out there are there things that you can disagree on. Yeah um. Is the co is this issue with the the mandates? Because because we know when we talk about this treatment, we're not talking about the treatment.

We're talking about mandates. We're talking about a whole host of other things that are coming in whether or not this is a plan to uh to to bring in socialism or single-payer health care or to Um create two classes of people to take away civil liberties, uh to restrict travel, uh to um uh to poison people potentially to make people possibly infertile some people think that and some people and they're and they're now our Scientists starting to say that they're and I can give you even names of some of them.

Um, I have a list but who are starting to say that yeah, this could cause some of these things. I mean, you're you're not talking about just a mandate and that's what you got to realize. That's what's in people's minds and um, and you have to navigate this you have to acknowledge those things.

If you want any kind of unity. You have to acknowledge that these are actual issues that people are facing and trying to grapple with. And as a pastor if you want to apply the word of god, you're going to have to seek wisdom.

You're going to have to understand a little bit about what this stuff is. And rather than just saying peace peace when there is no peace. There's a theological thing going on here guys. It's this isn't just a medical thing.

I just hope you realize that there's a theological thing and this isn't the way that russell moore treats this the way that that. Even dan darling treats this it is an article of faith that to trust the priesthood of medical lab coats and the government being the god who enforces.

What's good for everyone else? I mean, that's what's going on here. And if you don't see that if you don't see that there's another religion that's forming right in front of you a state religion. And it does compete with christianity.

Then you're not going to accurately be able to navigate this issue. And that's what so many pastors including and I don't mind saying it uh, dan darling russell moore, and I don't know their pastors, but bar barber is they are um, they are guilty of this and um, I just I don't see how.

They're not the church is not in good hands with people like this. All right um. Is there anything else? Oh, yes, dan darling wrote in the usa today a follow-up. And I I was going to read it, but I don't know if I had the stomach for it right now.

He's just calling for unity and it's just it's like. These guys, you know today we live in a polarized nations and they want to they want to um Transcend the divide they all act like they're above the divide.

Have you ever noticed that they always posture themselves as if. Everyone's just fighting and they're the adult in the room. They're not fighting. They can see everything from a bird's eye perspective.

Whereas you are the you're the basically you're the moron. You're the moron who doesn't see the full picture and that's why you're fighting and if you just knew the full picture. But meanwhile, they don't have a clue.

They're just following what they're they're marching orders. Most of the time and so and then they call for peace when the uh when they're on the ropes. And it's peace peace when there is no peace. All right, um I'll probably get myself worked up.

I should probably stop but That's that's all I have for you today. I wanted to just point that out. It's just an ongoing. Um. Issue, but I I wanted to bring attention to it Once again that there are there's a whole class of evangelical leaders out there who are punching right and soft pedaling left and Demeaning the people in their audience who might be coming from a perspective that's more on the right on particular issues.

Like this particular one with this treat these treatments and um, and they they seem to have this arrogance about them this elitism that they transcend these Uh conflicts when in reality, they're the ones that are creating the conflicts and they don't see it.

So Wanted to point that out. It's uh, it is similar to some of the things that the pharisees at some of the ways the pharisees acted in my mind. And um, and I and i've said before in the book that I have coming out I have a whole section comparing the social justice minded evangelicals to the pharisees.

There's a lot of Uh, and yeah, it's a serious charge and I stand by it because there's a lot of um parallels there. Um, hope that was helpful to someone out there and uh, there'll be more coming later this week.

God bless bye now.