Pastors' Panel Podcast- Sufficiency of Scripture

Good evening. Welcome to truth. And there I go again. I'm introducing the other program that we do We're we do truth and love network and truth and love network kind of sponsors and and has brought in pastors panel podcast and We were grateful for all the guys that join us and give input and do all the things that they do pray Give wisdom and be part there being part of the program.

We really appreciate those guys. We're gonna miss them tonight we're gonna miss Claude and Jonathan. The other guys that could be with us tonight. So we want to pray for them and keep them in our thoughts in the things that they're having to do.

We know that it's not just pastors, but we know the pastors have a lot on their plate and Can't always do everything and and we understand that we appreciate we appreciate what they do but on the pastors panel podcast tonight you have Myself and you have Dan and we are going to try to tackle this.

The Sovereignty of God and the Doctrines of Grace

We'll try to tackle this issue sufficiency of scripture we've we've gone through a Very good topic I believe which included a few additions. We we started with the sovereignty of God. We've looked at the doctrines of grace which follow the acronym to look total depravity Unconditional election limited atonement irresistible grace perseverance of the Saints and tonight we're going to look at the sufficiency of scripture, which It has been an important topic and will continue to be an important topic.

Ever.

Since ever since the fall can we trust the Word of God is it is basically what it boils down to and. Hey, there's Matt brother Matt who who is a.

Co-host.

With brother Claude on his podcast the here. I stand theology podcast. Go check them out. Go check Matt. Go check Claude out the here. I stand theology podcast. Thank you for being with us Matt. We really appreciate it.

So yeah from the beginning. Can we trust the Word of God. Adam and Eve struggle with that?

Yeah.

Jump right in anytime. Yes. Yeah. And it's been a struggle ever since and it's it's a struggle in our lives for me personally and I feel like.

About that.

X-files, no, it was from a different movie. Uh, I Don't. I wanted a whistle for notification and that was that was kind of the best one I could get. I'm not promoting If you heard it and recognize what movie it's from.

I'm not promoting it I just I wanted a whistle for notification for some reason and that was the one I chose because it was the coolest one that I could find. Um but I think I think I can represent a good portion of humanity when I say I Want to trust in my word and I want my word to be to take first priority over and above somebody else, especially somebody telling me what to do how to live and Feel like because of the fall because of sin most of us live like that.

And so we struggle with putting God's Word first Trusting leaning on God's Word His verbal Inspiration, you know when he spoke to Adam and Eve or when he spoke to the prophets or his written word that he has given to mankind.

It's it's it's always gonna be a struggle. Um. Here's a I'm glad I remember this. I thought about this question this week Dan and.

I.

Was gonna ask everybody but I'll get your thoughts on it tonight since no pressure. No pressure. This is this is one of my off the off the notes questions. So those of us who believe and this this has to do with God's Word.

Because we get our theology we get our doctrine from God's Word. So those of us who are post meal, we're we're optimistic. We believe that all nations You know the the pre-millennial dispensationalist they're looking for the nation of Israel to come to Christ.

But we all we as post-millennialists see the other verses in Scripture that say all nations are going to come to Christ are going to flow to Zion and and love his law and so we're optimistic we believe that God is moving us in a Good direction.

We're on that upward slope. It's it's a chart that goes up and down. But we're continually going up. Excuse me, I'm sorry. So what about theology? That was my question. What about theology? Because I've talked to you guys about conversations that I've had where I've had differences and and the conversations have been hard because.

And I see where they're coming from they believe this is this is what God is saying and they believe this is. This is true. And if this is truly what God is saying and this is how we should live. This is how we believe then.

Yes, we should not budge. We should stand firm on that. However, I think we miss Our humanity in the conversation where we are fallible. God's Word might not be fallible, but we are fallible. So we approach the conversation With I think or I do anyway with that in mind.

And I'm taking a long way around so I apologize. So with an optimistic perspective from the post mill perspective What about our theology is is our theology going to Become closer in line with one another.

Do you think as we go along through history?

You mean like over the course of history from a post-mortem perspective will theology sort of Meld together into a unified What they call that I don't know. Oh, what is that word cohesive whole maybe?

Okay. Yeah. Potentially. Also, maybe not. One of the things that we we know about God is that God does things his own ways his way. They're higher than our ways. So I really don't know. One of the things I've been in awe of is looking out at the different types of personalities that folks have.

And just what kind of appealed to them. And there's certain type of I mean go into the Presbyterian churches or about the churches or Bible-believing Methodist churches or Bible-believing Anglican churches or Lutherans or whichever the case and it seems like there's even a difference of personality and style of personality even between the denominations it kind of leads me to think that that there is a There's certain things in each one of the systems that kind of appeal to different folks in different ways.

And so it may be that God would use that throughout the course of history to draw a people to himself. Now I do think that on certain things as the enemy is put down as you know, the Holy Spirit draws a people to himself and does so more and more and We're able to have a You know more more minds hands to the task.

We will on certain doctrines. Especially just bad doctrines those things will fall away. Now, I don't know about before have a unified one size fits all theology at the end, but God will I think weed out some of the the worst doctrines the ones that make the least sense that are at least consistent with Scripture.

Even though he's still he can still use those things to draw people to himself. You know this piques my interest and then you hear the gospel but not that any old theology can bring someone in but something may pique your interest and then You hear the gospel and repent and believe and come to Christ.

So.

Anything you need speculation, I guess. Yeah, that's true.

Well, I was gonna say something similar to what you were saying there at the end on the The extracting of bad theology, yeah. But that's gonna come with the the ability or to understand Scripture better.

So.

It seems from an optimistic perspective that We we as God's people will be able to understand God's.

Word better.

And.

So to me it seems like an Inevitable thing that we will if we learn and understand to be able to interpret God's Word better then we will be able to Hold up the true and and weed out the bad.

Right and those things that there's absolutely no foundation for in Scripture, I think we'll follow it. I mean you look back through church history and you see that kind of stuff happening near the area in controversy where Arius which is complete heretic said that Jesus was was not divine and then no Santa Claus punches him in the face and I'll meet st. Nicholas punched him in the face and you know, we're on with it.

You know that that I mean we took over large portions of Christendom at that time and what came of it was nothing. I mean you have a few small groups here or there. But that has gone away. I mean, there's there's other things.

They've been believed through through time that have no proven themselves be false and fallen away. So I believe those. There's lots of new ones popping up. It's usually just rebaked rehashed something that's already come by but There's always some sort of air popping up but those things will continue to be put down and anything that's within the the pale of orthodoxy will I think remain and God will continue to do his thing and bring up people to himself and glorify himself through the.

Preaching of his word. That's right. And in that we can have joy and we can be excited we can we can look forward to those things and and these are the kind of questions that come up when when I'm thinking about The sufficiency of scripture when I'm thinking about scripture in general.

And other questions that come up. How do we hear from God? How does he speak to us? Those are the kinds of things I think about when I'm thinking about the sufficiency of scripture. Um. Can can we trust can we trust God's word can we trust scripture?

Um. So that's kind of leading us into to begin our discussion on the sufficiency of scripture. And if you are We'd love for you to chime in tell us hello and let us know that you're watching. If you have any comments additions to what we're saying questions, we would love to have you participate.

Give us a follow a like a share. We'd really appreciate that too. Our main objective is to glorify God and We want to be truthful if we're if we're off our rockers, let us know We're okay with critique.

We will examine it according to scripture just as I hope you would but we want to glorify God and we want to reach our community and we want to do it with you and so We'd love to have you join us with with comments and questions.

The Sufficiency of Scripture as a Foundational Doctrine

All right, looking at the sufficiency of scripture. And this is this is kind of one of the foundational doctrines the foundational teachings because We get the doctrines of grace.

From scripture.

We we get their meaning and interpretation. From scripture we get who God is who Jesus is his character. We get we get that from scripture you know when we talked about the sovereignty of God, so the the conversation of the sufficiency of scripture.

How do we live? It is Scripture sufficient for that. Does it tell us how to live in some areas of life of all areas of life? So important to talk about the sufficiency of scripture, so here's the first question.

That I have for us tonight Dan. How can we trust the Bible to be true?

Have you ever?

What would be your answer for that?

Well, this is going to it's gonna be fun because it's kind of like being on a merry-go-round and. Most of the time that is a bad thing, but I hope we can explain why it is not in this instance. We can trust the Bible to be true because God said it's true.

And that's pretty much The gist of it. Now we can talk about why that makes sense. But you're gonna want to ask your next question before we do that.

Right and what Dan is talking about is I have three to four questions that are Very similar very related and We're they're kind of going to be in the same Area of conversation, so it may seem like we're double talking or Contradicting ourselves maybe or talking in circles, which is What people call it circular reasoning they use that language and we get accused of using Circular reason and we won't talk about that and why it's is Circular reason reasoning, but okay to use it in this sense.

One instance in this one instance. Yeah, like one ever instance right and we'll try to make that clear and Talk about that help that Help us understand why that there's only one instance. That's true.

So, how can we trust the Bible is true and as Dan said Because God said so now we can we can examine the whole. And there's you know, there's videos there's teaching all these topics that are really really good.

That the history of how we got the Bible The the plethora of Manuscripts that we have and and how that makes God's Word trustworthy. You know we Here's kind of explanation that I've heard on that issue you have was you have a particular religion and you have a particular author of the the holy text of that religion and It was written However many thousands of years ago.

You.

Have to have a whole lot of faith that 2 ,000 years ago 1 ,000 years ago when when the guy wrote it that it's the same thing that he wrote way back then and Then you have to trust that. The one guy that wrote the thing Really heard from God and there's a whole lot of.

I thought I'd turn my volume down, but I didn't. There's a lot of other questions That make you skeptical skeptical of a one author a human one author holy text. But in our instance, we you know, we believe that God inspired men.

He used men to to write scripture and It was copied over and over and over again and There ended up being You know thousands upon thousands of copies of the text of Scripture. So we have tons of old early manuscripts of God's Word and the reason that that is a good thing is because there's no way that Anybody could have went and changed every document that was out there.

Because what if you what if you? Discovered another document that hadn't been found yet that didn't get the change. So because we have so many early manuscripts and they're so consistent it shows it points us to divine authorship a supernatural authorship.

Not just consistency but divine authorship. And so that points that points to to God as its author and not just me and I hope that makes sense. Can you add anything to that? Oh.

Yeah, there's plenty of.

Evidence.

That the manuscripts that we possess are. That we know what the originals said that is evidence of a preservation a preservation by God so that way we could have exactly what He inspired to be written down in the first place.

Yeah, so the manuscript tradition is is. Wonderful because there's there's such a large number of manuscripts. I mean, it's the most well-attested document in all of history. So to say that we don't know what the original said is.

To say that we don't know anything that was ever written down ever because this is like this is it like other things different Greek texts know that the Iliad Odyssey have a fraction of what the Bible does.

So yeah, it's a.

And the good thing about that situation is Yes, men pinned it on paper however. How God preserved it the consistency of all the books.

Um.

Just the character and nature of scripture itself points to something outside of itself. That there's a there's a higher power in control here. Just there's a supernatural aspect of God's Word. So it's it's not just you know, a normal ordinary book.

And so that's the good thing about it. How can we trust the Bible because God said so. Well, what makes it true? God's proving himself. It was preservation. It was consistency and and other things like that.

Let me let me read what brother Matt said. I've always enjoyed this quote from Bodie Baucham. I choose to believe the Bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of the other eyewitnesses.

They report supernatural events that took place in Fulfillment of specific prophecies and claim that their writings are divine rather than human fortune. Yep. I mean Our book records which.

You.

Pretty sure there's other religious texts that that record supernatural events but but the Bible records these supernatural events and.

We're.

2 ,000 4 ,000 5 ,000 years into this book and. They have yet to be dismissed or proven wrong. Archaeology is another thing continues to prove the legitimacy of Scripture.

So.

All these all these human aspects or our logic and reason archaeology, you know, there's a good thing scientific. Those are good things. But it it points to God. Because we don't want to rely on these Earthly arguments to to have our foundation.

We want to see that these. See how they point to God. Like the consistency of the preservation. The archaeology all those things. So the next question is how can we trust God to be true?

Does the Bible says so. Right. And there's the conundrum because they're walking in a circle and I am.

But.

But that's okay and here's why. And I'm gonna start with Scripture. In the book of Hebrews Chapter 6 verse 13 is talking about God and the certainty of God's promise. And this is what he said when God reveals himself and reveals himself to Abraham in a covenant away.

What is how is God doing it? Since for when God made a promise to Abraham since he had no one greater By whom to swear he swore by himself Saying surely I will bless you and multiply you. So why is it that we're saying?

The Bible says that God is true. God says the Bible is true, and it's not circular reasoning because Normally what you have happened when you appeal to something Else to bolster a truth claim. So basically you would say I am the greatest Basketball player in the world, you know I'm not but say I was.

I would have to then appeal to evidence outside of myself to prove that claim. There is no way for There's no evidence outside of God that he can appeal to. There's nothing higher than God that can be appealed to in order to Prove what he's saying now there's tons of evidence that that points to that fact all of the things that we've seen so far the Consistency of the manuscripts the preservation of the text through time all of that Logically flows.

It's it's it's like you've seen the trail go through. There's something there all of it points To the reality that Christ that God has spoken and and preserved it for us, but none of it Proves it it's consistent with the reality that God has done a thing.

So what you have in Scripture is you have God Speaking to man to reveal himself To us. He doesn't appeal to anyone else now he does. He does follow his own law and that it says if you're going to prove something You're gonna settle a matter make sure it's done on the basis of two or three witnesses.

So what are his two or three witnesses and one is that God is speaking? Another is that the Scriptures also speak now the Scriptures and God are on the same level because God is the one who spoke on them.

He can't appeal to anyone higher so Scripture and God Are able to corroborate each other because they are they're really the same story. One is God and one is God's Word. It's the same. He can't appeal to anyone higher to prove his case.

So he doesn't he appeals to himself because he's appealing to the highest greatest Most wonderful good out there, which is himself.

So.

It does kind of sound like we're chasing our tail when we say well. How do I know that the Bible is true because God said so. How do I know that God is true? Well because the Bible said so. But if you don't.

The reason why this this instance of circular reasoning is not invalid is because it's grounded in the fact That there is nothing bigger higher greater more valuable than God to appeal to. You can't appeal to anything else in order to prove the eternal infinite all-good all-knowing holy Beautiful God who he is like what can do him justice and speaking about him?

It's nothing except for him and his word speaking about himself. Which is it's difficult. Because some people will say well, what about this other thing over here? Can't I just say that that's the highest?

You know, it seems like you're kind of dodging the question and.

And.

That is when we look to All the different evidence that you brought up earlier because if the claim is true, which it is. But if the claim is true, everything else in reality is going to be consistent with that truth claim.

That is something that can't happen with if like say someone says that Muhammad Muhammad was the prophet of God who wrote down the Koran. So you could trust the Koran because it was handed directly to him from all above.

When we go through and you check. When you check through the Koran itself, there's inconsistencies because Things there are not factual. It says that the the Christian should not say three no father son and Mary.

But the Christians had never said that Christians have said father son and Holy Spirit. So why is there an inaccuracy in the Koran. Because the claim that they were making that this came down from God was false.

So you have You have the claim. You have it. Bolstered by an appeal to an equal authority, which is God and his word and then everything else in reality backs up that claim. They don't prove it. But there are evidence that what we're claiming about God and the scriptures are true.

Does that make sense? Maybe you can say it in a different way. Yeah, and if I'm checking with you.

Rightly. I mean, let me know.

This.

Summary kind of fits what you're trying to say. So, um, how can we trust God? Because. Because the Bible says so. But another way to another way to look at it or another way to say it is. How can we trust God?

It's because God says. And I think I think we're saying the same thing when we say. Because the Bible says so because God says he is he is the author and he is the giver of scripture. So he is saying.

And I think this is what you were saying earlier. God is saying of himself because there's no one greater or higher than him that that he is. He is trustworthy he is who he says he is and He does that through the scriptures.

So so the scriptures is God speaking to us. So when we said the Bible says we're saying thus says the Lord or God says so God says this of himself and he does it through scripture. So is that kind of the direction that you were going?

Yeah. Yeah even here in.

Perhaps that'll say it better than me in the later verses in Hebrews.

For.

Thus Abraham having patiently waited obtained the promise note being that God swore to himself because there's no one greater and Abraham trusted him was patient received promise and God's work proved to be true.

He says this he says. For people swear by something greater than themselves and in all the disputes and oath is final for confirmation. In other words you you appeal to something higher than yourself to.

Say that what you're saying is true and then you give your word and then your word proves to be true. And that's how you prove. The veracity of your claim or that you're what you're saying is true and right.

So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose He guaranteed it with the note. So that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie.

We who have fled for refuge might have a strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope that is set before us. So we have two things here that set before us two unchangeable things one that God has spoken to that God cannot lie He has made an oath and claimed this truth for himself.

And then his truth is is proving true just like it was with Abraham. That we who have fled for refuge might have a strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor for the soul I hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek and what that is saying is the truth claim that's been talked about here the promise that was given to Abraham and the covenant was that Christ would enter into that most holy place and make atonement for sin once and for all that he would be a He would be the full and final Completion of the promise and oath made by God to us when he when he spoke to us.

Through you know Abraham first and then to us through the scriptures and even the Holy Spirit to us through the scriptures today. Yeah, so this.

Well this adventure that that you go on to to be able to trust in God's Word put your faith in the sufficiency of scripture and God saying who he says he is and believe me that and trusting that this adventure that you go on Doesn't matter who you are There's got to be some credit given.

If you're creationist You know, we say that we've been around Six maybe ten thousand years if you're evolutionist millions of years, whatever it is go with whatever you believe for this point we've been around a long time and Whatever skeptics path that you take You will always come to a to a cliff to a wall to a roadblock roadblock a stumbling block a Sign that says turn around you're going in the wrong direction.

It doesn't matter what skeptical Avenue path Theory that you have you're gonna find it to be inconsistent. You're gonna find it to fail and Everyone has found it to fail.

And.

What you keep going back to is finding that scripture is Correct and consistent and sufficient to answer that skeptical question. Thus the supernatural. Thus the supernatural character of scripture showing that you can trust in it and trust in the God who is speaking through it.

Why the Sufficiency of Scripture Matters for Theology and Christian Living

Yeah, yeah. Speaks to why I brought it up in this way. We have to ask ourselves. Why or how can we trust the sufficiency of scripture? We trust in the sufficiency of scripture because it is a claim made by God.

And the reason why there is because there's nothing that can be appealed to higher than God. If we start first with with different evidences with manuscript traditions, and which is all great stuff.

Wonderful.

We see the transmission of the text was through the consistency of it. We see The church using the text throughout time all those things little pieces of evidence one by one. Can lead to no, okay. Sure, but what about?

This okay. Sure, but what about? That okay. Sure, but what about? This and. All of those, you know, you keep chasing yourself when you have a. Thus says the Lord because your creator is spoken. It is it's a stopping point that that is a truth claim that is not spoken first by us.

But by God and one that has to be dealt with. There's no skating around. That I mean you can rationalize. Rationalize Manuscript evidence and well, it should have been more consistent. But when when you have to come face-to-face with what God has spoken.

What will you do with this information when you trust in God and believe and repent of your sins and turn to him and find? Salvation or will you reject what he's saying go on in your sin and find eternal torment.

Um, that's really what it boils down to. That's why I think it's a stronger. It's it's definitely a stronger argument because there is nothing higher to appeal to than God himself. That that is the truth claim.

I mean, it's not a piece of evidence pointing to a truth claim. It's the truth claim itself that God has spoken and we are responsible to him for what he's revealed to us.

These next two questions to me. Anyway are very similar to what we've already talked about, but I wanted this to. Want us to define it. Define what the sufficiency of scripture is. What do we mean when we say?

Scripture is sufficient. I.

Have a textbook definition.

That'd be great.

Written by much smarter people than myself. The Westminster Confession of Faith. Because I'm a Presbyterian, okay.

I.

Back this one says this. I'm pretty sure it's like verbatim at this point. It says the same thing Chapter 1 verse 6 says the whole counsel of God Concerning all things necessary for his own glory man salvation.

Faith in life is either expressly set down in Scripture This next phrase is not there in the Baptist Confession Or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture Unto it's nothing at any time is to be added Whether by new revelations of the Spirit or traditions of men.

Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the word and That there are some Circumstances concerning the worship of God the government of the church and the common to human actions in societies Which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence According to the general rules of the word which are always to be observed.

So.

What is in the scriptures? Yes to be sufficient. What that said. Is that? What is sufficient for us to know in Scripture is who God is. And how we're responsible to him. It speaks of God's glory and who God is.

There are also some other things that we should be able to Understand. By the way, the God has revealed himself to us in nature. Those are for general practice things. But what God. The scripture. Is saying that the scripture is sufficient to tell us who God is and how we can know him.

I mean. That's that's the basis. Simplest terms the scripture is sufficient. Some people would say that it is it is sufficient for every rule or truth of faith and Practice. So what truth is and how we live that out.

So God has told us what we should believe and how we should live. That is what it's sufficient for. What it doesn't mean is you're not going to be able to go into the Bible and find.

No.

The Pythagorean Theorem. You're not gonna be able to find all sorts of stuff because it's just. Not the purpose of scripture. But the purpose of scripture what it is sufficient for is telling us who God is and.

How we relate to him. Well in relationship to what you were talking about and you know mathematical equations Chemistry biology. All the other arts. Sciences Entertainment that's out there. Scripture scripture does speak to.

How we behave.

In relationship to those things sure it puts parameters around everything. Yeah. Yeah, so.

So yeah.

Yeah.

Doesn't tell you know what the best recipe for chocolate chip cookies is right? But it does tell you don't use those chocolate chip cookies to poison your neighbor.

It tells us what kind of relationship we should have with chocolate chip cookies. Right, don't be gluttonous. And I have and I have failed. I'm guilty in that area many times and.

Somebody who makes good cookies that makes it difficult.

You know, I chuckle about that but you know Sin is sin and like you said The sufficiency of scripture is is a serious doctrine and it reveals it reveals who we are it reveals our sinfulness and and that particular sin is.

You know just because we don't see the effects of eating too many chocolate chip cookies, you know that night. You know Doesn't mean it's it's not serious in the eyes of God that that we we over indulge in certain things.

And so, you know Chuckle about it, but Also apologize for chuckle about it because you know that that's a serious thing. It's Not as There's there's different consequences for different sins. But all sin is against God.

Sure, we should we should take it serious and we learn we had learned those things from scripture in our relationship with those things. So the next question is is wise why is scripture sufficient? Why is it sufficient?

It is.

To to me it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Yeah. Well, I mean.

Why is it sufficient is a it's a loaded question in one sentence because you kind of having to Answer, you know, what was God thinking when he gave us the Bible? We know a little bit. We know that. One of the reasons why we're giving scriptures the scriptures so that way we would know God we would find salvation in Jesus Christ.

He could have chosen to do it different ways, I don't know why he chose to do it this way. But we know that it's good and wonderful and right just so we take him at his word and Go on with it, I guess.

Sufficiency, Continuationism, and Extra-Biblical Revelation

So here's the next question what why does sufficiency need to be added to the descriptive words if If you've been in the circles that I've been in. Or grew up in church. I grew up with a Baptist background.

I'm not sure about your background Dan. If you heard the same thing, but it was it was really hammered these especially these three Descriptions of God's Word. It's it's inerrancy. It's infallibility and it's inspiration.

It was it was pushed really hard that those are things that we needed to believe about God's Word. Which you know, I have no fault. I don't fault that I think those are things that we need to believe about God's Word.