Pastors' Panel Podcast- Sufficiency of Scripture

Good evening. Welcome to truth. And there I go again. I'm introducing The other program that we do

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We're going to miss them tonight We're going to miss Claude and Jonathan The other guys that could be with us tonight.

So we want to pray for them and keep them in our thoughts In the things that they're having to do.

We know that It's not just pastors, but we know the pastors have a lot on their plate and Can't always do everything and and we understand that we appreciate we appreciate

What they do but on the pastors panel podcast tonight you have Myself and you have

Dan and we are going to try to tackle this We'll try to tackle this issue sufficiency of scripture we've we've gone through a

Very good topic. I believe which included a few additions. We we started with the sovereignty of God we've looked at the doctrines of grace, which

Follow the acronym tulip Total depravity Unconditional election limited atonement.

Here's this will grace perseverance of the Saints and tonight we're going to look at the sufficiency of scripture, which

It has been an important topic and will continue to be an important topic Ever since ever since the fall.

Can we trust the Word of God is? basically what it boils down to and Hey, there's

Matt brother Matt who is co -host

With brother Claude on his podcast the here. I stand theology podcast Go check them out.

Go check Matt. Go check Claude out the here. I stand theology podcast Thank you for being with us

Matt We really appreciate it. So yeah from the beginning. Can we trust the Word of God Adam and Eve struggle with that?

Yeah Jump right in anytime. Yes. Yeah And it's been a struggle ever since then it's it's a struggle in our lives for me personally and I feel like Sorry about that The X -Files

No, it was from a different movie. Oh I don't

I wanted a whistle for a notification and that was that was kind of the best one I could get I'm not promoting

If you heard it and recognize what movie it's from I'm not promoting it I just I wanted a whistle for a notification for some reason and that was the one

I chose because It was the coolest one that I could find But I think

I think I can represent a good portion of humanity when

I say I Want to trust in my word and I want my word to be to take first priority

Over and above somebody else especially somebody telling me what to do how to live and I feel like because of the fall because I've seen most of us live like that And so we struggle with putting

God's Word first trusting leaning on God's Word His verbal Inspiration, you know when he spoke to Adam and Eve or when he spoke to the prophets or his written word that he has given to mankind

It's it's always gonna be a struggle. Um Here's a

I'm glad I remember this I thought about this question this week Dan and I Was gonna ask everybody but I'll get your thoughts on it tonight since no pressure

No pressure. This is this is one of my off the off the notes questions

So those of us who believe and this this has to do with God's Word Because we get our theology we get our doctrine from God's Word.

So those of us who are post meal, we're we're optimistic We believe that all nations

You know the the pre -millennial dispensationalists They're looking for the nation of Israel to come to Christ But we all we as post -millennialists see the other verses in Scripture that say all nations are going to come to Christ Are going to flow to Zion and and love his law and so we're optimistic we believe that God is moving us in a

Good direction. We're on that upward slope. It's it's a chart that goes up and down But we're continually going up Excuse me.

I'm sorry So what about theology that was my question what about theology because I've talked to you guys about conversations that I've had where I've had differences and and the conversations have been hard because And I see where they're coming from.

They believe this is this is what God is saying and they believe this is

This is true. And if and this is truly what God is saying and this is how we should live This is how we believe then.

Yes, we should not budge We should stand firm on that However, I think we miss

Our humanity in the conversation where we are fallible God's Word might not be fallible, but we are fallible

So we approach the conversation With I think or I do anyway with that in mind

And I'm taking a long way around so I apologize. So with an optimistic perspective from the post mill perspective

What about our theology is is our theology going to? Become closer in line with one another.

Do you think as we go along through history? You mean like over the course of history from a post -mortem perspective will theology sort of Meld together into a unified

What they call that Oh What is that word cohesive whole maybe okay.

Yeah Potentially Also, maybe not One of the things that we we know about God is that God does things his own ways his way.

They're higher than our ways So I really don't know One of the things

I've been in awe of is looking out at the different types of personalities that folks have and Just what kind of appeal to them and there's certain type of I mean go into the

Presbyterian churches or about the churches or Bible -believing Methodist churches or Bible -believing

Anglican churches or Lutherans or whichever the case and it seems like there's even a difference of personality and Style of personality even between the denominations it kind of leads me to think that that there is a

There's certain things in each one of the systems a kind of appeal to different folks in different ways

And so it may be that God would use that throughout the course of history to draw a people to himself

Now I do think that on certain things As the enemy is put down as you know, the

Holy Spirit draws a people to himself and does so more and more and We're able to have a

More more minds hands to the task We will on certain doctrines

Especially just bad doctrines those things will fall away Now, I don't know about before have a unified

One -size -fits -all theology at the end, but God will

I think weed out some of the the worst doctrines the ones that make the least sense that are at least consistent with Scripture Even though he can still use those things to draw people to himself

No, this piques my interest and then you hear the gospel But not that any old theology can bring someone in but something may pique your interest and then you hear the gospel and repent and Believe and come to Christ Anything you need speculation,

I guess yeah, that's true well, I was gonna say something similar to what you were saying there at the end on the

The extracting of bad theology, yeah Um, but that's going to come with the the ability or to understand

Scripture better So it seems from an optimistic perspective that We we as God's people will be able to understand

God's Word better and So to me it seems like an inevitable thing that we will if we learn and understand to be able to interpret

God's Word better Then we will be able to Hold up the true and and weed out the bad

Right, and those things that there's absolutely no foundation for in Scripture. I think will fall away

I mean you look back through church history and you see that kind of stuff happening near the area and controversy where Areas which is complete heretic said that Jesus was was not divine and then no

Santa Claus punches him in the face and I'll meet st. Nicholas punched him in the face and you know, we're on with it

You know that that I mean we took over large portions of Christendom at that time and what came of it was nothing.

I mean you have a few small groups here or there But that has gone away,

I mean there's there's other things that have been believed through through time They've no proven themselves be false and fallen away

So I believe those Usually just rebaked rehashed something that's already come by but There's always some sort of air popping up but those things will continue to be put down and anything that's within the the pale of orthodoxy will

I think remain and God will continue to do his thing and bring up people to himself and glorify himself through the preaching of his word

And in that we can have joy and we can be excited and we can we can look forward to those things And and these are the kind of questions that come up when when

I'm thinking about The sufficiency of Scripture when I'm thinking about Scripture in general And other questions that come up.

How do we hear from God? How does he speak to us? Those are the kinds of things

I think about when I'm thinking about the sufficiency of Scripture. Um Can can we trust can we trust

God's Word? Can we trust Scripture? Um So that's kind of leading us into to begin our discussion on the sufficiency of Scripture We'd love for you to chime in tell us hello and let us know that you're watching

If you have any comments additions to what we're saying questions We would love to have you participate

Give us a follow a like a share. We'd really appreciate that too. Our main objective is to glorify

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We're okay with critique. We will examine it according to Scripture just as I hope you would but we want to glorify

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All right, looking at the sufficiency of Scripture and this is this is kind of one of the foundational doctrines the foundational teachings because We get the doctrines of grace from Scripture We get their meaning and interpretation

From Scripture we get who God is who Jesus is his character we get we get that from Scripture you know when we talked about the sovereignty of God, so the the conversation of the sufficiency of Scripture How do we live?

Is Scripture sufficient for that? Does it tell us how to live in some areas of life of all areas of life?

So important to talk about the sufficiency of Scripture, so here's the first question

That I have for us tonight Dan. How can we trust the Bible to be true?

Have you ever? What would be your answer for that? well, this is going to it's gonna be fun because it's kind of like being on a merry -go -round and Most of the time that is a bad thing, but I hope we can explain why it is not in this instance

We can trust the Bible to be true because God said it's true And that's pretty much

The gist of it now we can talk about why that makes sense But you're gonna want to ask your next question before we do that Right and what

Dan is talking about is I have three to four questions that are Very similar very related and We're they're kind of going to be in the same

Area of conversation, so it may seem like we're double talking or Contradicting ourselves maybe or talking in circles, which is

What people call it? Circular reasoning they use that language and we get accused of using circular reason and we won't talk about that and why it's is

Circular reason reasoning, but okay to use it in this sense One instance in this one instance.

Yeah, like one ever Right and we'll try to make that clear and Talk about that help that Help us understand why that there's only one instance.

That's true. So how can we trust the Bible is true and as Dan said Because God said so now we can we can examine the whole

And there's you know, there's videos there's teaching all these topics that are really really good

That the history of how we got the Bible The the plethora of Manuscripts that we have and and how that makes

God's Word trustworthy You know, we Here's kind of explanation that I've heard on that issue you have you have a particular religion and you have a particular author of the the holy text of that religion and It was written

However, many thousands of years ago You have to have a whole lot of faith that 2 ,000 years ago 1 ,000 years ago when when the guy wrote it that it's the same thing that he wrote way back then and then you have to trust that The one guy that wrote the thing

Really heard from God and there's a whole lot of I thought I'd turn my volume down, but I didn't

There's a whole lot of other questions That make you skeptical skeptical of a one author a

Human one author holy text, but in our instance We you know, we believe that God inspired men he used men to to write scripture and It was copied over and over and over again and there ended up being

You know thousands upon thousands of copies of the text of Scripture so we have tons of old early manuscripts of God's Word and The reason that that is a good thing is because There's no way that Anybody could have went and changed every document that was out there because what if you what if you?

Discovered another document that hadn't been found yet That didn't get the change

So because we have so many early manuscripts and they're so consistent it shows it points us to divine authorship a supernatural authorship

Not just consistency but divine authorship And so that points that points to to God as its author and not just me and I hope that makes sense

Can you add anything to that? Oh Yeah, there's plenty of evidence

That the manuscripts that we possess are That we know what the originals said that is evidence of a preservation a preservation by God so that way we could have exactly what

What he inspired to be written down in the first place yeah, so the the manuscript tradition is is

Wonderful because there's there's such a large number of manuscripts. I mean, it's the most well -attested document in all of history

So to say that we don't know what the original said is To say that we don't know anything that was ever written down ever because this is like this is it like other things different Greek texts know that the

Iliad Odyssey have a fraction of what the

Bible does so Yeah, it's uh the good thing about that situation is

Yes, men pinned it on paper however How God preserved it the consistency of all the books?

Just the character and nature of Scripture itself points to something outside of itself

That there's a there's a higher power in control here There's a supernatural aspect of God's Word So it's it's not just you know, a normal ordinary book

And so that's the good thing about it. How can we trust the Bible because God said so Well, what makes it true?

God's proving himself through his person Preservation there was consistency and and other things like that.

Let me let me read what brother Matt said I've always enjoyed this quote from Bodie Baucham I choose to believe the

Bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of the other eyewitnesses

They report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claimed that their writings are divine

Rather than human fortune. Yep. Yeah, I mean our book records which you

I'm pretty sure there's other religious texts that that record supernatural events but but the

Bible records these supernatural events and We're 2 ,000 4 ,000 5 ,000 years into this

Book and They have yet to be dismissed or proven wrong

Archaeology is another thing continues to prove the legitimacy of Scripture so All these all these human aspects or our logic and reason archaeology, you know, there's a good thing scientific

There's a good things But it it points to God Because we don't want to rely on these

Earthly arguments to to have our foundation. We want to see that these See how they point to God Like the consistency and the preservation

The archaeology all those things. So the next question is how can we trust

God to be true? Is the Bible says sir, right? And There's the conundrum because they're not walking in a circle and I am

But but that's okay. And here's why And I'm gonna start with Scripture in the book of Hebrews Chapter 6 verse 13 is talking about God and the certainty of God's promise

And this is what he said when God reveals himself and reveals himself to Abraham in a covenant away

What is how is God doing it? Says for when God made a promise to Abraham since he had no one greater

By whom to swear he swore by himself Saying surely

I will bless you and multiply you. So why is it that we're saying?

the Bible says that God is true God says the Bible is true and it's not circular reasoning because Normally what you have happened

When you appeal to something Helps to bolster a truth claim.

So basically you would say I am the greatest

Basketball player in the world, you know, I'm not but say I was I would have to then appeal to evidence outside of myself prove that claim

There is no way for There's no evidence outside of God that he can appeal to there's nothing higher than God that can be appealed to in order to Prove what he's saying now there's tons of evidence that points to that fact all of the things that we've seen so far the

Consistency of the manuscripts the preservation of the text through time all of that Logically flows.

It's it's it's like you've seen the trail go through There's something there all of it points

To the reality that Christ that God has spoken and and preserved it for us, but none of it

Proves it it's consistent with the reality that God has done a thing So what you have in Scripture is you have

God Speaking to man to reveal himself

To us He doesn't appeal to anyone else now he does

He does follow his own law and that it says if you're going to know prove something

If you're gonna settle a matter make sure it's done on the basis of two or three witnesses So what are his two or three witnesses and one is that God is speaking?

Another is that the scriptures also speak now the scriptures and God are on the same level because God is spoken

He can't appeal to anyone higher so scripture and God Are able to corroborate each other because they are really the same source one is

God and one is God's Word. It's the same. He can't appeal to anyone higher to prove his case

So he doesn't he appeals to himself because he's appealing to the highest greatest

Most wonderful good out there, which is himself so It does kind of sound like we're chasing our tail when we say well how do

I know that the Bible is true because God said so how do I know that God is true well because the Bible said so but if you don't

The reason why this this instance of circular reasoning is not invalid is because it's grounded in the fact

That there is nothing bigger higher greater more valuable than God to appeal to You can't appeal to anything else in order to prove the eternal infinite all good all -knowing holy

Beautiful God who he is like what can do him justice and speaking about him?

It's nothing except for him and his word speaking about himself Which is it's difficult

Because some people will say well, what about this other thing over here? Can't I just say that that's the highest?

No, it seems like you're kind of dodging the question and That is when we look to All the different evidence that you brought up earlier because if the claim is true, which it is

But if the claim is true Everything else in reality is going to be consistent with that truth claim

That is something that can't happen with like say someone says that Muhammad was the prophet of God who wrote down the

Koran So you could trust the Koran because it was handed directly to him from all above When we go through and you check

Um when you check through the Koran itself, there's inconsistencies because Things there are not factual

It says that the the Christian should not say three, you know father son and Mary But the

Christians had never said that Christians have said father son and Holy Spirit So why is there an inaccuracy in the

Koran because the claim that they were making that this came down from God was false Oh, so you have

You have the claim You have it Bolstered by an appeal to an equal authority, which is

God and his word and then everything else in reality backs up that claim

They don't prove it But there are evidence that what we're claiming about God and the scriptures are true

Does that make sense? Maybe you can say it in a different way Yeah, and if I'm checking with you rightly, let me let me know

This summary kind of fits what you're trying to say so How can we trust

God because Because the Bible says so but another way to another way to look at it or another way to say it is how can we?

trust God It's because God says And I think

I think we're saying the same thing when we say Because the Bible says so because God says he is he is the author and he is the giver of scripture

So he is saying And I think this is what you were saying earlier God is saying of himself because there's no one greater or higher than him that that he is

He is trustworthy he is who he says he is and He does that through the scriptures through so the scriptures is

God's speaking to us So when we said the Bible says we're saying thus says the

Lord or God says so God says this of himself and he does it through scripture So is that kind of the direction that you were going?

Yeah. Yeah, even here in perhaps that'll say it better than me in the later verses in Hebrews For thus

Abraham having patiently waited obtained the promise note being that God swore to himself because there's no one greater and Abraham trusted him was patient received promise and God's work proved to be true.

He says this he says For people swear by something greater than themselves and in all the disputes and oath is final for confirmation.

In other words you You appeal to something higher than yourself to say that what you have is greater than yourself

What you're saying is true and then you give your word and then your word proves to be true And that's how you're you prove the veracity of your claim or that you're what you're saying is true and right

So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose

He guaranteed it with the note So that by two unchangeable things, which is impossible for God to lie

We who have fled for refuge might have a strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope that is set before us

So we have two things here that set before us two unchangeable things one that God has spoken to that God cannot lie

He has made an oath and claimed this truth for himself And then his truth is is proving true just like it was with Abraham That we who have fled for refuge might have a strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us

We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor for the soul I hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek and what that is saying is the truth claim that's been talked about here the promise that was given to Abraham and the covenant was that Christ would enter into that most holy place and make atonement for sin once and for all that he would be a

He would be the full and final Completion of the promise and oath made by God to us when he when he spoke to us

Through you know Abraham first and then to us through the scriptures and even the Holy Spirit to us through the scriptures today

Yeah, so this Well this adventure that that you go on to to be able to trust in God's Word put your faith in the sufficiency of scripture and God saying who he says he is and believing that and trusting that this adventure that you go on Doesn't matter who you are

There's got to be some credit given If you're creationist

You know, we say that we've been around Six maybe ten thousand years if you're evolutionist millions of years, whatever it is go with whatever you believe for this point we've been around a long time and Whatever skeptics path that you take

You will always come to a to a cliff to a wall to a roadblock roadblock a stumbling block a

Sign that says turn around you're going in the wrong direction. It doesn't matter what skeptical

Avenue path Theory that you have you're gonna find it to be inconsistent.

You're gonna find it to fail and Everyone has found it to fail What you keep going back to is finding that scripture is

Correct and consistent and sufficient to answer that skeptical question Thus the supernatural

Thus the supernatural character of scripture showing that you can trust in it and trust in the

God who is speaking through it Yeah, yeah Speaks to why

I brought it up in this way We have to Why or how can we trust the sufficiency of scripture we trust in the sufficiency of scripture because it is a claim made by God and The reason why there is because there's nothing that can be appealed to higher than God If we start first with with different evidences with manuscript traditions and which is all great stuff wonderful We've seen the transmission of the text was through the consistency of it we see

The church using the text throughout time all those things little pieces of evidence one by one

Can lead to know? Okay. Sure, but what about? This okay.

Sure, but what about? That okay. Sure, but what about? This and all of those, you know, you keep chasing yourself.

Um When you have a thus says the Lord because your creator is spoken

It is it's a stopping point that that is a truth claim that is not spoken first by us

But by God and one that has to be dealt with There's no skating around That I mean you can rationalize

Manuscript evidence and well, it should have been more consistent When you have to come face -to -face with what

God has spoken What will you do with this information when you trust in God and believe and repent of your sins and turn to him and find?

Salvation or will you reject what he's saying go on in your sin and find eternal torment.

Um, that's really what it boils down to That's why I think it's a stronger

It's it's definitely a stronger argument because there is nothing higher to appeal to than God himself

That that is the truth claim. I mean, it's not a piece of evidence pointing to a truth claim

It's the truth claim itself that God has spoken and we are responsible to him for what he's revealed to us

These next two questions to me. Anyway are very similar to what we've already talked about, but I wanted this to I want us to define it

Define what the sufficiency of scripture is. What do we mean when we say? Scripture is sufficient.

I Have a textbook definition That'd be great Written by much smarter people than myself

The Westminster Confession of Faith Because I'm a Presbyterian, okay

Baptist one says this I'm pretty sure it's like verbatim at this point. It says the same thing

Chapter 1 verse 6 says the whole counsel of God Concerning all things necessary for his own glory man salvation

Faith in life is either expressly set down in Scripture This next phrase is not there in the

Baptist Confession Or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture Unto it's nothing at any time is to be added

Whether by new revelations of the Spirit or traditions of men nevertheless We acknowledge the inward illumination of the

Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the word and That there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God the government of the church and the common to human actions in society

Which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence According to the general rules of the word which are always to be observed so what is in the

Scripture Yes to be sufficient what that said is that What is sufficient for us to know in Scripture is who

God is And how we're responsible to him It speaks of God's glory

And who God is? there are also some other things that we should be able to Understand by the way, the

God has revealed himself to us in nature Those are for general practice things.

But what God The scripture Is saying that the scripture is sufficient to tell us who

God is and how we can know him I mean That's that's the basis

Simplest terms the scripture is sufficient. Some people would say that it is it is sufficient for every rule or truth of faith and Practice so what truth is and how we live that out

So God has told us what we should believe and how we should live That was what it's sufficient for what it doesn't mean is you're not gonna be able to go into the

Bible and find No the Pythagorean Theorem You're not gonna be able to find all sorts of stuff because it's just Not the purpose of scripture, but the purpose of scripture what it is sufficient for is telling us who

God is And how we relate to him. Well in relationship to what you were talking about and you know mathematical equations

Chemistry biology All the other arts

Sciences entertainment that's out there Scripture scripture does speak to How we behave

In relationship to those things sure it puts parameters around everything. Yeah. Yeah, so So, yeah

Yeah Doesn't tell you know what the best recipe for chocolate chip cookies is, right?

But it does tell you don't use those chocolate chip cookies to poison your neighbor It tells us what kind of relationship we should have with chocolate chip cookies

Right, don't be gluttonous and I have and I have failed. I'm guilty in that area many times and Somebody who makes good cookies that makes it difficult it does but you know,

I chuckle about that, but you know Sin is sin and like you said

The sufficiency of scripture is is a serious doctrine and it reveals it reveals

Who we are it reveals our sinfulness and and that particular sin is

You know just because we don't see the effects of eating too many chocolate chip cookies, you know that night

You know Doesn't mean it's it's not serious in the eyes of God that that we we overindulge in certain things

And so, you know Chuckle about it, but Also apologize for chuckle about it because you know that that's a serious thing.

It's Not as There's there's different consequences for different sins

But all sin is against God Sure, we should we should take it serious and we learn we learn those things from scripture in our relationship with those things

So the next question is is wise why is scripture sufficient? Why is it sufficient?

It is To to me it kind of goes back to what we were

Talking about earlier. Yeah, well, I mean Why is this sufficient is a it's a loaded question in one sentence because you kind of having to Answer, you know, what was

God thinking when he gave us the Bible? We know a little bit

We know that One of the reasons why we're giving scriptures the scriptures so that way we would know

God we would find salvation in Jesus Christ He could have chosen to do it different ways,

I don't know why he chose to do it this way But we know that it's good and wonderful and right just so we take him at his word and Go on with it,

I guess So here's the next question what why does sufficiency need to be added to the descriptive words if If you've been in the circles that I've been in Or grew up in church.

I grew up with a Baptist background. I'm not sure about your background Dan If you heard the same thing, but it was it was really hammered these especially these three

Descriptions of God's Word. It's it's inerrancy It's inviolability and it's inspiration

It was it was pushed really hard that those are things that we needed to believe about God's Word Which you know,

I have no fault with that. I think those are things that we need to believe about God's Word So so why does sufficiency need to be added to that list of descriptive words?

Oh man sufficiency is It's huge And I've got about a hundred different examples in my head right now of When People will get it the

Bible and say well the Bible says this but but it doesn't say everything that we're supposed to do And so they they usually use that as an excuse to do something

Extra something that's not been commanded in Scripture No, well, we're going to have a

No Interpretive dance as part of our worship service

Well, the Bible doesn't say that we can't True say that verbatim, but It does say that we should do things in the way that God has commanded us and it has given us a list of things ways that God should be worshipped and That is not one of them.

So while dance isn't necessarily condemned the worship of God through dance is not permitted

So we shouldn't do that you see all sorts of church governments pop up that Pick on the

Baptist for just a half a second What is a board of trustees like looking

I Don't know like it's just it's not there now I understand some states require you to have a board of trustees and it's just the people who are going to take care of a building or No, whatever

But as far as like I don't know it's like there's there's so many things where people say

Yeah, but we don't really know You know as well as I do the church cannot function without at least 15 different committees and Then they've got to have a committee on committees.

Those are just standing committees. The other ones pop up, you know Ex -officio status and full voting members and half of Whatever.

That's right but Where it really gets dangerous is when we start talking about what we believe in relation to God Because people will take

The Neglect the idea that or the truth the reality not the it's not just an idea

The reality that the scriptures was sufficient and then it will supplement their Understanding of the way that the world works and even the way that the spiritual world works

With things that they pull in from all sorts of different sources There there's a plaque in a church

I'm not gonna say the state But as you walk into a certain building

You look at the plaque and it's talking about a young boy who had passed away very sad

But it says that he he gained his angel wings and The scriptures speak to this

It's sufficient to tell us that he does not turn into an angel in fact that boy knows

Christ being an angel would be a step down from where what he will one day be with a glorified body and a

Tight -knit relationship with with his Savior He's a saint of God he's would be above the angels

It's a Those sorts of things are

Rampant where people will add to what the Bible says

Because they don't believe that the Bible is sufficient to tell them what to do No, should

I do this or should I not? Well, the Bible doesn't say the Bible does say you just may look a little different cuz they didn't have the

Internet back then There's no lust after people so don't look at porn simple Yeah That's exactly right

It's it's sufficient because it speaks it speaks to those practical areas of life and When it when it's not specific

You know if God was specific, you know, the book would be too big The earth couldn't contain, you know as scripture speaks of you know

All the things that that Jesus did the earth couldn't contain all the other books that could be written about every detail of it so God gives us a

Sufficient Sufficient information to make decisions on every aspect of life

Every behavior of life in every direction of life Right Where do you start to look for answers?

Like if you think that the Bible may or may not have it you may or may not start there if you know that the

Bible has answers to life and And how we ought to live then you're going to go there first because it's sufficient for it

Like right, that's what God has put it there for. Yeah and that that's leading my mind to a question closer to the bottom who we're

We've got about two more minutes and we've got we've got a lot more questions. So Let me see.

Let me see which direction that we want to go. Um, I want to go south.

It's warmer down there Let me just follow the direction of the car conversation and hit on some of the some of the later questions

Does the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture speak to how we we hear from God And this takes us into the cessationist versus continuous discussion, so This is even a temptation for the

Christian What you were saying there is at the end Where do we go to first?

I need an answer or I would like an answer. I would like to know how to Move forward make a decision.

So Christian What is your first step? Where do you go first and professing

Christians and I'm sure so many genuine Christians are Taking a different first step than the sufficiency of Scripture.

Yep Any thoughts on that? Yeah, I thought you were going somewhere with it.

I was waiting. I Was I was going towards your response? Yes Yes it

But also possibly no Here's what I mean that I don't want to be unfair to I mean

I myself in the station is Now that's obviously that's gonna be defined anymore because I've heard the definition change even over the last like 10 years

Well, I believe it's being a cessationist means is that the apostolic sign gifts have ceased from being normal as a

Manifestation of the Spirit in the church, it doesn't mean that they don't happen ever doesn't mean that God can't do

Whatever he wants at any certain particular time. He has that right? He's God he can do what he wants but that it's not a this used to be normative as a practice of the church during When the scriptures were fulfilled

I believe so Those who believe that those those signs and works of the

Spirit Continue on in a normative sense Would do so because they believe

Scriptures says so at least From the Reformed. I don't know about everyone, right?

So I don't want to like come out swaying and be like hey That's No, these people are automatically looking somewhere else

Because they don't believe the scripture is sufficient because they believe that the scriptures tell them that they can have now it's dangerous because There aren't always checks and balances some people will think stuff and it's not

God speaking So we need to remember You know test the spirits

Look everything and what Jesus says if it comes true That's a sign of a true prophet.

We need to Be very very careful if we're going down that other road, but everything that is said in the scripture

Will be consistent with Anything else you may think?

Hear no Receive I don't I'm not gonna Venture a guess as to what how that happened

But you know that like God does leave impressions on people He he leads people in certain ways there are certain situations where it seems like no

Well God everything but audibly told me to do this I have no doubt in my mind and the scriptures back it up and you know, the

Holy Spirit leads folks But one thing that we do know is that the scripture is sufficient for our life practice it's sufficient for Showing us who

God is How we can know our sin and how we can be saved from it It shows us the morality of God the holiness of God and how we ought to act in this world so If we keep that in mind

I Don't think it affects the cessation is creationist distinction

Now where it gets hairy is when People say thus sayeth the

Lord and God never spoke and they act as if You should tack whatever they said into the back of your

Bible And then it's something new The real big problems with that happen with the false prophets.

We think of I was a Charles Tate Russell with his false predictions of the

Lord's return the the false prophet Joseph Smith who Claimed to receive tablets from God began the

Church the Latter -day Saints Also that that's why it can get super dangerous and so this is why the scriptures are sufficient

We don't need anything to go beyond what the scriptures say To teach us anything about our faith or our

God What he has spoken here in the scriptures that we have today is sufficient to teach us about that God's not going to reveal himself as a

Exalted human who once you know was around the planet around the star

Kolob somewhere It's it's it's not that he's not going to tell us that because what he said he's revealed here in the

Word of God in Scripture, he's not going to contradict that so I Don't know there's a lot there to Say well,

I'm really I'm really glad that you said what you said because it straightened me out in it and it helped us to be more clear in the direction that we wanted to go because Since you said that I could hear how

It could have unintentional consequences to our say our Church of God brothers and sisters who you know, you believe in continuationist doctrines

But it's because they believe in the sufficiency of scripture that scriptures is But what we don't think they're wrong but they're wrong because they're trying to go about it the right way right, right

And so we want to be sensitive to that because they're brothers and sisters and Christ right we can work in there and That's right.

But but then you pointed out the the two main areas that That should be pointed out, you know, somebody coming in that says thus says the

Lord They're they're hearing and getting information from God that it's outside of scripture and then

Speaking it to people as if it's you know, God's Word that he didn't get from the

Bible He got it from outside of scripture. Um and then I can't remember the other one you said it was just About revealing new information about God or who he is or how we relate to him such as you know

The Jehovah's Witness founder. Yeah, he broke off and I think two cults think they're the

Seventh -day Adventist followed him to LNG white Yeah, it eventually came down through there and then

Joseph Smith who also tried a revelation about God that was not consistent with scripture.

Yeah and and the example that I was trying to give also that I wanted to clarify too was when when we truly when we're truly not believing in the

Sufficiency of scripture, even though we may profess and claim to be Christian and and truly may be Christian We just may be mistaken at this point

Instead of our first step being to go to scripture I see where people fall into the ditch of their first step being

I'm I'm praying and looking for God to reveal What the answer should be or give me a sign of what it should be when?

Right scripture is the first step in that direction, right? In fact scripture actually

Commands us against looking for a sign. It says that we're not supposed to be a people who

Seek a reed omen Is how it goes? So that would be you know, we're looking for my sandwich had a smiley face in the mayonnaise today

Or a mayonnaise on the side face so it means I'm going to be happy for the next week and get a great inheritance or Yeah, and it's something like that I Saw a crying baby or there was two bird two two eggs on the way in so young lady.

You're going to have twins In the next you know nine months or whatever

But yeah, those those things we were commanded against so we should stick with the sufficiency of scripture because it really scripture and God did a wonderful thing in setting us up a standard which does not move which is sufficient for us because No matter what we can conjure up in our heads.

He's spoken about it Either it's permissible or not whether it's best practice or not whether it's downright sinful or not.

He's Spoken about it. He's given us What you should do

Broad strokes, of course, right and through that he expects us to exercise wisdom and rely on his word in the

Holy Spirit From time to time he does do things supernaturally he

Realizes that we don't get the hint and he will nudge us in the right direction And he does so consistently with his word being powerful and almighty and good looking out for us and showing his own glory and The goodness of the

Sun Absolutely So I want to do two things to wrap up or as we wrap up I want to look at the kind of some some eyes the last of the questions and And Get your thoughts

Comments and then I want us to look at our scripture and read it and get your thoughts and comments on that just briefly

So that people can know What are what's our text for believing the sufficiency of scripture at least one of them?

So looking at the last of the questions What are some of the consequences of not believing in the sufficiency and air and see infallibility inspiration of scripture?

There's There's a lot of consequences for not believing that and that belief leading it to we begin to Live as though we don't believe that our living becomes different We begin to look for signs trust in ourselves trust enough, you know other things question question

God I have insecurity. I mean it leads down a path of all kinds of terrible consequences

And I'll go through the rest of these real quick and then you can give your final thoughts if you'd like to Does the doctrine of the sufficiency of scripture speak to how we hear?

Okay, we just talked about that and and how does the doctrine affect our our family and our church?

Here's here's a really good one for me Because We want our churches

As shepherds as leaders as people who care about God's local church

We we want his church to and how I redefine success

Is it's gonna vary but we wanted to be successful. I Want to define set define success as scripture does

Which would be you know to glorify him according to how he says to do things Shepherd shepherd the flock of God of God among you according to the will of God.

I don't think that comes from Peter But when we begin to define success in different ways

We don't think that the scripture speaks To How we we should be doing church or like you were saying earlier

Dan because the Bible is maybe somewhat silent Therefore this is permissible.

We begin to Conjure up our own visions of success visions of programs

Of how we want our church to look and it becomes building our kingdom

There's just a lot of pitfalls a lot of dangers of running church or Shepherding being an under shepherd of a church and Not being guided by the sufficiency of scripture and the same thing is true for your family

There's there's ups and downs in the family there's the importance of the family is tremendous in God's economy

But God would have us to run our families according to his words And lean on the sufficiency of scripture in our families and in the church

So any last comments on all those questions? Yeah Kind of starts off saying

There was no king in Israel and everyone did what was right in their own eyes If we as as church folk and families don't believe that the

Bible speaks sufficiently to Who God is how we relate to him and how we ought to live our lives?

then We will end up doing whatever we want to whatever we've seen is right in our own eyes and the

Bible Plainly says that there's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is the way of destruction

So it's important for us to remember who God is and that God has spoken

Because the consequences behind rejecting that truth are

Incredibly large We either don't know the true gospel or the true gospel gets lost for us in the next generation

Or maybe it's been lost and maybe we're seeing the fruit of that in Today's world certain parts of the world other parts of the world.

There's no the sufficiency of scripture They crave the Bible that can't find them in their language. Can't get enough of them past their their government

And they they do their best to live by the Word of God That's a great wonderful thing but it's almost like we have a

It's almost like there's a there's a famine of the Word of God in In America today that is it's almost like it was that song

Ben through the desert on a horse with no name he gets to the he finally gets there He says the ocean is like a desert with its life underground

No water water everywhere and not a drop to drink There is so much good gospel content

Scriptures Bibles within arm's reach of people and yet we

Go about living our lives as if These aren't enough Even when we believe that they're enough.

Sometimes we go about living our lives like they're not enough Like we need to do something else

So yeah, this doctrine should affect we should The very first thing that comes out of our mouth when we have issues or problems

Either with somebody or that we need to encourage someone. It shouldn't be scripture because My ideas my thoughts my understanding of things for any problem that you may have is going to be absolute garbage if it's not

The Holy Word of God if it's not the wisdom of God who knows everything knows how we work how we take in our brains

Knows the consequences that maybe we don't even really know everything that goes into a thought or a situation

But he does and he's spoken in his word that's why Paul tells us in a couple different places.

We speak to one another in Psalms hymns and spiritual songs To encourage one another to point out and in Psalms hymns and spiritual songs are the three different types of Songs in the

Psalter. So whatever your beliefs on singing the Psalms You should at least know them enough to be able to speak truth and life into your into your brother and sisters lives because We don't need anything else the scripture is sufficient

I Can tell you all sorts of stuff doesn't matter the Word of God is what matters

So amen to that. That's why that's important. So let's let's look at our text and I think this text would be our our text for this topic and it would our view on this text would help explain the difference that we were trying to talk about earlier between us and Who are cessationist and those who are continuationist?

Especially, you know hearing extra -biblical revelation The differences between our dear brothers and sisters who are in you know denominations like the

Church of God How how Dan and I view this text? Kind of help

Help you understand where we're coming from in those differences. So we're in second Timothy chapter 3 And I think

I think this whole text speaks to the sufficiency of scripture and that's why

I wanted to start there so I'm just gonna read the text and then you can Make a short comment at the end and I won't

For the sake of time but starting in first one, but realize this that in the last days difficult times will come

For men will be lovers of self lovers of money boastful arrogant revilers Disobedient to parents ungrateful unholy unloving irreconcilable malicious

Gossips without self -control brutal haters of good treacherous reckless conceited

Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God holding to a form of godliness Although they have denied its power

Avoid such men as these just a quick comment. I Think you will see from somebody who's not believing in the sufficiency of scripture and Of course taking it to its, you know, fullest measure

I want to be careful because you Are our dear brothers who may not see it the way we see it.

I'm speaking of those who don't trust in God Don't trust in the Bible This is the extreme

End of that I'm having a hard time wording what

I'm trying to say. But this is this is what you see, you know, ultimately It's the grown -up version of The little bitty monster that might be roaming around.

Yeah. Yeah Yeah, you may only have the little bitty puppy, but there's a bigger version out there.

That's scary and will break you, right? This is the big scary version. Not the little one before it gets there pay attention

Right Exactly. All right verse 6 for among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women

Weighed down with sin led on by various impulses always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of truth

Just as Janice and Jambreeze opposed Moses So though so these men also opposed the truth men of depraved mind rejected in regard to the faith

But they will not make further progress for their folly will be obvious to all just as Genesis and Jambreeze Folly was also now you follow my teaching conduct purpose faith patience love perseverance persecutions and sufferings

Such as happened to me at Antioch and Iconium and at Lystra What persecutions

I endured and out of them all the Lord rescued me Indeed all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted

But evil men and imposters will proceed from bad to worse Deceiving and being deceived you however

Continue the things you have learned And become convinced of knowing from whom you have learned them.

So in my mind, I'm thinking when I hear the words Continue the things that you've learned No, knowing

I'm thinking I got that information from the Word of God Verse 15 and from and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings

Which are able to give you wisdom that leads to salvation. There's the sufficiency of Scripture Through faith which is in Christ Jesus verse 16 all

Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching or approved for correction for training and righteousness

So why is that why is it profitable? So that the man of God may be adequate equipped for every good work and Then chapter 4 verses 1 through 5

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is the judge of the living and the dead and by his appearing in his kingdom

Preach the word be ready in season and out of season reproof Rebuke exhort with great patience and instruction for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine

But wanting to have their ears tickled They will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires and will turn away their ears from the truth

And we'll turn aside to miss but you be sober in all things Endure hardships do the work of an evangelist fulfill your ministry last thoughts go to you brother

Interesting point the scriptures that existed at that point were the Old Testament They had not written the

New Testament at that point, I mean it was an in process like right there, so when he says

The sacred writings which are able to make you wise to for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus the

Old Testament itself is sufficient and then we also have the more simple plain and Explanatory revelation of The New Testament as well

So and this is free because it's not really related

When you read the Old Testament think Jesus I mean like he like you find him.

He's everywhere. He's all throughout the Old Testament You don't even need we shouldn't unhitch from the

Old Testament like really all we need is the Old Testament now We've been given more and since he's given us more we need that too but the scriptures are sufficient for Faith in Christ Jesus and that is amazing because as you saw that the two bookends

No, you could be like this No, ignoring the truth going away from the truth, you know lovers of pleasure treacherous out of control brutal

You know going after weird women Causing rebellion against leadership or Remember the scriptures

They'll make you wise unto salvation trust in what they say. They equip you for righteousness.

They that whole Teaching reproof correction for training and righteousness those four together basically mean what you should know

What you shouldn't know or what you should forget what you should be corrected on or what you do

What you shouldn't do. I mean so What you think what you don't think what you do what you don't do that's everything

So it is there to train you that you may be complete Some some person even

Mash that together stay completely equipped for every good work So you can do the good things that God has called you to do not in Timothy's case.

He was a preacher I believe he's an elder Or at least doing

Apostles work. He said go out there and preach In season out of season.

He said if you if you trust in Christ believe in his word read his scriptures

You will not only have salvation But you'll be equipped to go and do the work that God would have you to do.

So what is God's purpose for your life? Christian, how do

I know God will for my life? Number one do what Jesus did think what Jesus thought don't

Think what Jesus didn't think don't do what Jesus didn't do Trust in the

Holy Spirit and he will guide you through the scriptures to do everything that you are supposed to be doing

I Mean really once you trust in Christ He's going to through his word and his spirit guide you into everything that you're supposed to be doing

So don't fret don't worry about you know, I go to this school or should I go to that school? He says be wise which one's gonna gonna profit talk to new wise counselors go

Do whatever you do there to the glory of God read his word trust in him Preach the gospel while you're there

Trusting him for everything you do and all your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your paths

It's wonderful What I got yeah and What what you said from the very beginning is said here in 2nd

Timothy you said Scripture is sufficient for belief and Practice and that's exactly what you commented on is faith in Jesus Christ and and practice for every good work

And that's why we believe in the sufficiency of Scripture And we want we want you and we want our whole community to know about Jesus And so if you do not know him as your as your

Savior and Lord We would call you to repentance Turning from your sin and put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ You can search and you can search and you can search

But you will always end up at dead ends Unless you go to God's Word Unless you bow your knee and submit to Jesus as your

Savior and your Lord He is already Savior. He's already Lord and he's king over the whole universe we just We must submit

To him and the Bible says today is the day of salvation Do not let it do not let it pass

Because one day we all will regardless of our wants or desires.

We all will Bend the knee and bow to the sovereignty the sovereign

King of Jesus but the graciousness of God is calling

You to do that Today while there's still time To be his child

So we would call you to repent of your sin to put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Let me pray for it

So we'll close Father we thank you for allowing us to spend time together to leave your word and I know that we we ourselves are

Insufficient we are errant we are fallible and so We're thankful for our brothers and sisters

We're thankful for your word as as a guide that that can keep us in line

We're thankful for brothers and sisters that you give us to help us to understand God's Word and keep us in line

And so we we submit to your kingship Jesus and we submit to your interpretation and your wisdom

From your word and not on our own. We just want to see you And we want to see your kingdom and we want to see our community

Submit to your lordship your kingship your headship over all things and we want to see souls saved so father we ask that you would

Use this ministry And our fellowship with one another To reach our community for you and your glory in Jesus name.

Amen All right. Thank you for joining us. Remember that Jesus is King go live in the victory of Christ go speak with the authority of the