August 1, 2024 Show with Marc Grimaldi on “A Christian Response to the Satanic LGBTQ Mockery of Da Vinci’s Last Supper at the Summer Olympics”

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August 2, 2024

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:11: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:58: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:15: Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this very first day of August 2024.
01:30: Before I introduce my very special guest today and our topic, I want to remind all men in ministry leadership, you are invited to the next free biannual
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02:00: Dr. Joseph Boot, author, conference speaker, and founder and president of the
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03:03: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and put
03:10: Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. Also, please give us the name and location of the church or parachurch ministry that you represent, and I hope to see you there.
03:22: Well, I'm absolutely thrilled to have a returning guest on today who is an old friend of mine and actually at one time was one of my pastors at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.
03:34: His name is Mark Grimaldi, and he is an author and currently pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and today we're going to be addressing a
03:46: Christian response to the satanic LGBTQ plus mockery of Leonardo da
03:52: Vinci's painting of The Last Supper at the 2024 Summer Olympics in France.
03:59: We're also going to be announcing the upcoming Bible conference featuring Pastor Mark and several other speakers at Grace Church at Franklin in Franklin, Tennessee, and you'll be hearing more details about that, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Mark Grimaldi.
04:21: Thank you, Chris. As always, it is a privilege and encouragement for me to be on here with you. Well, tell our listeners, for the sake of those especially who have not yet heard you on this program, about Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, also known as Sovereign Grace Church of Whitehouse, Tennessee.
04:38: Yes, Sovereign Grace Church. We are a confessional church. We hold to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, and we are, as Chris said, located in Greenbrier, Tennessee.
04:48: We're right on the border of Whitehouse, Tennessee. That's why Whitehouse is also stated there as our location, and we have a nice small but growing congregation, and we would love to see anybody who is in the area who would like to visit or come to our church to please come.
05:06: We'd love to have you, and our website is www .sovereigngracechurch .net,
05:12: www .sovereigngracechurch .net. Great, and this upcoming conference,
05:19: I'm very excited about it. My very dear friend, longtime friend, in fact, he may have—I may have known
05:29: Pastor Bill, believe it or not, longer than I've known you, Pastor Mark. I met
05:35: Pastor Bill Sasser in the late 80s and perhaps the early 1990s when
05:40: I used to attend the John Bunyan Conference, which began in Lewisburg, Tennessee and then switched to a new location years ago in New Ringgold—I'm sorry,
05:53: Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. I got mixed up there because one of the speakers at the conference is in Lewisburg, Tennessee.
06:02: The John Bunyan Conference started in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania and then switched to New Ringgold, Pennsylvania, and now are being held in Franklin, Tennessee, but I first met
06:12: Pastor Bill Sasser way back then when I used to attend those fairly often, annually for a while, and I was excited to hear from him not long ago that he had invited you to be featured as a speaker at his conference coming up there in Franklin, Tennessee at Grace Church at Franklin, and it's one of these unusual
06:43: Bible conferences that is not based on one theme as most are.
06:51: Pastor Bill wants each man speaking to just unburden his heart with what he believes the
07:00: Lord has most pressed upon his heart and mind to declare to those gathered there, and can you remind me, what are the dates of that conference coming up?
07:13: Yeah, so the dates for the conference will be September 12th, 13th, and 14th, so that is a
07:21: Thursday, a Friday, and a Saturday, and it will be in the evening at 7 o 'clock p .m., of course,
07:27: Central Standard Time, on the 12th, 13th, and 14th, possibly the 11th as well if he has this additional speaker that he's thinking of that may possibly come to speak as well, but please mark those in the calendar, and I hope to see—anybody who's able to attend,
07:42: I hope to see you there. And I don't know if the information is up yet, but for more details at least on how to get to the church where the conference is being held, go to gracechurchatfranklin .org,
07:54: and that's Grace Church at, and that's the word at, A -T, not the symbol, franklin .org,
08:01: and you will get information on how to get there, and hopefully they will very soon have all the details on the conference provided as well.
08:11: I don't know, if you have selected your own personal theme yet, but if you have, can you let us know what it is?
08:19: I was thinking, Chris, that I might go with the importance of bringing back head coverings into the church for women.
08:25: I'm just kidding. Well, Rich Jensen would be there, our mutual friend. No, I haven't yet.
08:33: I know that in a general sense, I think most of the men are obviously looking to do something that's focused centrally on the gospel and on Christ, something to do with the glory of the gospel, and along those lines, but I don't know offhand what my text is at this point just yet.
08:51: Okay, well, we will keep our listeners updated on that as we get those details. And today we are talking about, as I mentioned earlier, a
09:01: Christian response to the satanic LGBTQ plus mockery of Leonardo da
09:07: Vinci's painting of The Last Supper at the 2024
09:12: Summer Olympics in France. Now, people on social media, some have at least, not the majority, some have wrongly concluded that the theme that we are addressing today stems from our view that Leonardo da
09:39: Vinci's painting has some kind of sacred place in our hearts. In fact, there is even a debate amongst
09:48: Reformed Christians as to whether an image of Christ should ever appear in a painting or a drawing or a sculpture, even if it's not used for worship purposes as it is in the
10:02: Roman Catholic Church. Of course, they would call that veneration of images, but it's blatantly worship, as you and I know.
10:12: And I'm not sure I am in the camp of prohibition of all images.
10:20: I have perhaps a different opinion than a lot of Reformed folks about whether it's a violation of the
10:27: Second Commandment, because if I personally believe, and you may totally disagree with me, but if one were to take the commandment according to exactly what it says, we shouldn't even have a painting of a bird in our house.
10:45: I think the commandment is connected to bowing before and worshiping the image.
10:52: But I don't know if I'm a minority or not in the Reformed camp, but I know that I have some allies, the late
11:01: R .C. Sproul being one, but that has nothing to do with our topic today. We are addressing it because it is obviously not an attack on a painting.
11:11: It is not an attack on Leonardo da Vinci, who homosexuals actually claim as one of their own.
11:19: Whether that is true or not is debatable, but it's an attack on Jesus Christ.
11:26: And don't we have to recognize that when things like that in current events become the highlight of media attention, when things that in and of themselves aren't directly perhaps an attack on Christ, they are in reality the intention to be an attack on Christ and to be a mockery of Christ?
12:02: Yeah. Yeah, Chris, I think that's the important thing to see there. It's not, as you said, it's not
12:07: Leonardo da Vinci who was under attack or even his artwork or art style or his paintings. But the reason why that is an issue of concern is because what's represented in that painting, we can go on and say, well, more than likely the table wasn't straight like that and different things about the seating of the apostles and they would have been on the floor, whatever it is, all kinds of things that people can say.
12:31: But the reality is what's represented by that painting, everybody knows what's represented there.
12:36: And the intention of those who have done this at the
12:42: Olympics is not to mock da Vinci, but to mock the supper itself and what's represented there with Christ and his apostles.
12:52: So it's what's that symbolic of whether or not we respect da Vinci for that painting, that people can debate that till the cows come home and wrestle through that.
13:01: But the issue is the event itself, which is biblical and is clearly portrayed in Scripture, is what really is being mocked there.
13:09: Just for a moment, Chris, let me just say this, probably I would assume unless anybody is basically their head is buried in the sand at this point that they know what we're talking about at the opening ceremony of the
13:22: Olympics in Paris, France. We're talking about the picture, the scene that was there of an array of gay and lesbian folks all seated at a table across the table, similar to the painting of the
13:36: Last Supper by da Vinci representing the Last Supper. Now, that was more than a picture, wasn't it?
13:42: Wasn't it actually like a live acted out? Yeah, it was a live portrayal.
13:47: There were actions, they were dancing drag queens in the background. So yeah, there was a child even they had in there.
13:53: So, yeah, it was actually a live portrayal of that of that scene there.
13:59: And it was intentionally meant to to mock what was taking place at the
14:04: Last Supper, as we know, in the in the general picture that people see Jesus at the center.
14:10: He's there at the table with six apostles on each side. And you can see their expressions as they're listening to his teaching.
14:17: And then in the in the actual portrayal at the ceremony, they have just, again, all these these gay folks, drag queens.
14:25: And at the center is a heavyset lesbian woman who has a halo effect around her head, clearly trying to indicate the that she's supposed to be representing
14:37: Christ in some sense. And so when seeing that, that that that live event as part of the other things that went that transfer that that that went went on as well, there there was an outcry of many
14:51: Christians right on the on the Internet and just seeing it as as an insult, as as we believe it was meant to mock the
14:58: Last Supper. But but yeah, it's to answer your question, though, it it is it's it's more than just the painting or Da Vinci that that's irrelevant.
15:06: It really is that they're trying to mock what what took place there at the Supper and Christ and Christianity.
15:12: And even the the woman who was at the center there of the table had posted on her Instagram, I believe it was a picture.
15:20: And this is what I meant by the picture, actually, a picture of that scene that was that was there at the
15:26: Olympics above the picture of the Last Supper of Da Vinci's Last Supper. And she put in a comment basically something along the lines with it being that this is the new gay, the gay
15:38: New Testament or something like that. She said something along those lines as well. Yeah, and I just saw recently on social media someone
15:48: I don't know if the person himself was or is a
15:53: Christian, but he was mocking Christians who are getting all uptight and outraged over the the mockery of the homosexual, transgendered folks recreating
16:15: Da Vinci's Last Supper scene. And he posted a photograph of a mural in a
16:26: Mexican restaurant. And the the mural was a recreation or a replica of Da Vinci's painting.
16:36: But all of those in the painting featured at the
16:41: Last Supper, including Christ, were holding items of Mexican food, tacos, burritos and things like that.
16:48: And he said, well, I hope you wouldn't be offended by this, would you? Now, again, this is not in regard to the mockery of a painting.
17:01: I could care, could not care less about the mockery of a painting. But isn't this just a part of belittling the seriousness of what occurred at the
17:13: Last Supper? Yeah, Chris, I agree 100 percent. And let me just preface the answer that I question with one other thing, too, as well.
17:22: The immediate reaction after there was an uproar from from many Christians and different level of of of reaction, some people were more angry than others.
17:31: And as you said, some Christians were going against other Christians and whether or not they should be offended and whether, you know, just a back and forth, which we'll get to as well.
17:40: But but there was also then an immediate response by many non -Christians trying to say that it wasn't a portrayal of the
17:48: Lord's Supper or the Last Supper at all. It was actually supposed to be a painting, a portrayal of the painting of the
17:54: Feast of Dionysus, who was a Greek god, the god of fertility who was leading a feast, a festive time of revelry and drinking wine.
18:05: And it's a pagan festival. And they would show pictures of that. And so you had that immediate response where people were like coming against Christians.
18:11: And look, you guys are showing how unintelligent you are. So just to say real quick to that, because I think that needs to be answered and it has been answered that the the people who organized the event itself and organized the scene admitted that it was inspired by the
18:25: Last Supper. And even in the name, the title of the scene in French, it even mentions that it's that supper specifically.
18:33: Now, they did add Greek mythology into it. They've they've mixed it in there.
18:38: So you did have this blue looking guy up there who's supposed to be this this feast, you know, this
18:44: Dionysus God, you know, Greek God and so on. So they did mix in some Greek mythological elements.
18:50: But it was very clear that it was meant to reflect the Last Supper. That was the point. They apologized for doing that after the uproar.
18:58: And even as I said, the woman who was at the center of that, the heavyset lesbian woman herself was even saying that this is the new gay testament.
19:07: So I just just to clear that up, that it very much was meant to mock the Lord's Supper.
19:13: But it is something that should be offensive to Christians. We'll get into that more more so even going forward as well.
19:20: It is something that is offensive because it's mocking not just our Lord and Savior, which in itself is horrific and offensive, but it's also mocking our
19:30: Lord and Savior at a sacred assembly, a sacred event with his apostles as he's preparing to officially establish the new covenant in his blood, literally right before he was going to go to the cross to be crucified.
19:44: And now he was laying himself down as the sacrificial lamb on behalf of sinners and his the cup representing his shed blood and the bread representing his broken body.
19:54: And so there's a solemnity to the event that it's just nothing to to play light with or to kid around with or joke about at all.
20:03: If somebody was kidding around about something that Peter did or he was goofing off or, you know, there's a place for that perhaps.
20:10: But when you're dealing with something like this and the solemnity of the event and what went on there and also the intentions of the
20:17: French folks who put this together, who were really trying to mock religion as a whole, it's it's it's deeply offensive.
20:24: How we respond is another question. But but it is deeply offensive. And yet seeing that in a
20:29: Mexican restaurant would bother me. It would trouble it should trouble us. Now, when you said you had witnessed in the media
20:38: Christians attacking other Christians for being offended, I have not seen that.
20:44: But I have seen Christians saying that we are angry at the wrong thing, that the
20:53: Da Vinci painting itself is blasphemous because they're against any kind of images. But are you speaking of something else?
21:00: Oh, yeah. There was a there's there are there are comments and things being passed around by different Christians who have made comments on it.
21:09: And really, some some of the arguments that Christians were saying that we shouldn't be offended about this and they're criticizing other
21:16: Christians are basically saying, look, there's a couple of the arguments we should expect is from the world.
21:21: Why are we offended about this? This is what the world is going to do. It shouldn't bother us.
21:27: We shouldn't be offended by it. We should anticipate that. And, you know, and so on. The other argument is that, you know,
21:32: God doesn't need us worms to defend him. You know, we're like worms that we feel like we have to defend
21:38: God in some way by being upset about this. And it's like a worm trying to defend, you know, an 800 pound bear or something like that.
21:45: And then others would even say that, you know, we're jeopardizing our Christian witness by getting upset. And we really should be more loving to the folks who even are doing this and that these are the kinds of people, right, that are in this scene, that Christ would have had eating with him at the table or he would have been eaten with tax collectors and sinners.
22:03: So they're trying to see it more as showing compassion on these folks. And we're not saying that there's no room for compassion, but they're throwing out the sense of the offense that this is to Christ and that he called sinners to repentance.
22:20: And it wasn't just an all grace and no call to deal with sin as Christ has done in the scriptures and that these kinds of things offended him.
22:28: And, you know, Jesus got offended when his father's house was contaminated by those who had money changes in there and so on.
22:36: And even by the world in general, you know, these kinds of things should be offensive. And it's not wrong for that to trouble us when we see these things, because this is the
22:47: Savior who we love, who we care about, who was I one, Chris, one thing I looked at as an example,
22:52: I thought about it even as a much in a much lower, lesser sense, even how would how would these folks feel if if somebody mocked, you know, their child or their mother or their wife, you know, who had cancer?
23:05: And on the on the day before that, she had some folks maybe gathered around with her and was ministering to them in some way and was being, you know, was about to die.
23:13: And if somebody mocked that scene, you know, about what happened to your own to somebody who we love like that. Now, all the more we're talking about Christ, the
23:20: Son of God who laid down his life for us. And so it should be it should be offensive to us. We should be offended.
23:27: Yeah. And this reaction that you mentioned from Christians who said we should not be wasting our time opposing this blasphemy because we should be expecting this from the world.
23:47: Well, if only John the Baptist had known that before he had his head cut off, he never would have he never would have brought to the attention of Herod that he was living in a a anti -God, anti -scriptural marriage.
24:08: And so, you know, that that kind of stuff sometimes strikes me as a false piety.
24:16: Yeah. Now, there is a part of that I agree with. We are not to be shocked by it.
24:24: Uh, they are right. We shouldn't we should be shocked when when the world says wonderful things about Christ and his church and so on.
24:35: But and also we should not let it consume us where we are losing control of our tempers and and reacting in kind and wishing violence against people or anything like to that measure.
24:53: But at the same time, we cannot remain silent about things like this as Christians.
25:00: No, in fact, Chris, I think with what you said about John the Baptist is significant in that text where it talks about John calling out
25:10: Herod, it says that he reproved him for his adultery. And Herod was not a was not a, you know, a
25:17: Jew. He was he was an Edomite. He was not somebody who was necessarily committed, even though he did sometimes lip service to the
25:25: Jewish faith. So here's a king, an ungodly king set over the Jews by the Romans, whom the
25:31: Jews really don't respect. And John's calling him out. And it could be very easy to say, well, John, what are you doing?
25:36: You know, he's part of the world. But even also in Ephesians chapter five, it specifically says there and it uses that same word reproved, by the way, in the
25:45: Greek that's used about with speaking about John the Baptist there, it says here in Ephesians five, just read these verses real quick here.
25:53: Therefore, be imitators of God as beloved children and walk in love as Christ loved us and gave himself for us a fragment offering a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
26:03: But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you as is proper among saints.
26:10: Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk, no crude joking, which are out of place.
26:16: But instead, let there be thanksgiving for you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure or who is covetous, that is an idolater, has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
26:28: Let no one deceive you with empty words. Because of these things, the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
26:34: So now we're talking about those who are unsafe. Therefore, do not become partners with them for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the
26:41: Lord. Walk as children of light for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true and try to discern what is pleasing to the
26:49: Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
26:56: That's the same word reproved that's used about John the Baptist, what he had done. Expose them for it is shameful to even speak of the things that they do in secret.
27:03: But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible for anything that becomes visible as light.
27:10: Therefore, it says, Awake, go sleeper and arise from the dead and Christ will shine on you. So we have a responsibility in our actions and how we live and even in our communication and what we do, how we speak to expose the darkness.
27:22: I mean, that's what we do with the law. We tell people this is God, this is this is God's law and this is what he says.
27:28: And it's that conviction of sin that will that can and will be used by God to bring people to Christ and the gospel.
27:34: So we're called to expose and to reprove those who are in it, not just people in the church, but even those who are committing these kinds of acts, especially in the public arena.
27:45: Well, we have to go to our first commercial break. And if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.
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29:00: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
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38:54: Royaldiadem .com, go there today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Pastor Mark Rimaldi of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, and we are not only promoting the conference that is coming up in September, but we are discussing this satanic portrayal of the
39:20: Last Supper featuring so -called transgendered individuals, and we are discussing how a
39:29: Christian should respond to this. And once again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
39:35: I don't want to beat a dead horse on this, but going back to the criticism that some of our brethren in Christ have towards us who say that we shouldn't even be concerned about the element of this being a mockery of Christ, their main concern is that anybody would care about a painting since it's a violation of the second commandment.
40:01: But can't both be true? I mean, why would you be upset at the public mockery that is clearly intended to be toward Christ, even though it's a mockery of the painting?
40:19: Yeah. Yeah, I agree, Chris. I think both can be true, and they're two different issues. We can debate about, like as you said earlier, whether or not the second commandment applies to that, and if not, or is there anything else in Scripture that would inform our decision on whether it's appropriate or not to have pictures of Christ?
40:40: So that can be debated, and the painting can be debated, but the fact of the matter is that what was going on at the
40:47: Olympics, it's directed at what's represented in that painting.
40:53: And so it's because of the scene there, because of what was happening there with Christ, everybody knows that scene.
41:01: They see that painting, they recognize what it represents, and so they're going after what the painting itself represents, and it's not so much the images or the pictures of what's in there.
41:11: And that's why it's important. It's like thinking about things in the sense of the spiritual aspect of things.
41:19: What are they really attacking in this? Is it paint colors and crayons and things like that, or is it the actual person that's represented in that painting?
41:30: And that's what the issue is. They're going after Christ and his apostles and what took place in that event, and so they're using the painting because they know it represents it, but they're really going after the actual event itself.
41:43: So I agree with you. Both of them are two different issues, and we have to separate them and say, okay, we can talk about the pictures and the painting and so on and wrestle through that, but we don't need to address that to see that this is a direct attack on what went on in the event itself.
41:59: Now, I have been pleased that there seems to be a nearly universal disgust over this, even by many liberals in the media, because they recognize it for what it was.
42:15: It was meant to be an attack on the Christian faith in some shape or form, and even liberals have said, no, that was unfair.
42:25: You're unnecessarily offending Christians, and that shouldn't be done at something like the
42:33: Olympics that millions of people globally look forward to and participate in, even Christians participating, even some in this current
42:41: Olympics. Yeah, it's supposed to be a uniting, the Olympics are supposed to be allegedly a uniting event where the world comes together to compete in these various ways, and so you're right.
42:54: Allegedly, I don't know, again, you don't know whether what you're reading is true or not anymore in some of the media, but allegedly some big financial supporters of the
43:04: Olympics who have donated, some of them have pulled their support. Again, I don't know if that's just hearsay or if that's true, but there are some in there that have done that, that would be known to be of a liberal kind as well.
43:17: If that's true, that would be interesting. Now, one thing in our enthusiasm overseeing nearly universal condemnation, don't we as Christians have to be careful, just like when it comes to our outrage over infanticide and same -sex marriage and many of the social and moral ills that plague humanity, we have to be very careful that even though there is a place,
43:51: I believe, in the life of a Christian for co -belligerence, for joining arms with people that don't believe in Christ and the gospel on a common cause, we have to be very careful that we are not giving the public idea that we affirm false religions.
44:12: We'll give you an example. There are evangelicals that are rejoicing that Roman Catholics are vocally opposed to what occurred, but it was interesting, somebody emailed me a video and on the video it says
44:37: French Christians worship Jesus in response to the mockery of the
44:45: Last Supper, and in the video you can hear the song that thousands of French people are singing.
44:53: It's they're not worshipping Christ in response to this, they're worshipping
44:58: Mary. So we have to be careful on how we publicly reveal our outrage over these kinds of things, don't we?
45:10: Yeah, yeah, Chris, I think you're 100 percent right, and you hit the nail on the head with using examples like Planned Parenthood and infanticide.
45:18: There are a lot of committed Catholics, in fact, who put us to shame to some extent, and they're just coming up against the murder mills and they're there.
45:30: Granted, what's motivating and what they do when they're there and chanting the rosary and things like that and bringing statues over of Mary and so on is not something certainly we would approve of, but they are very anti -abortion and so on, and so there is a place, you know, in a sense a moral stance where you can agree on that, but we do have to be careful that we don't let down the guard or trim any of our differences that are related particularly to the gospel and right into important spiritual matters that the
46:03: Roman Catholics would differ with us on. So we do have to be careful not to join hands in such a way with anyone that would compromise and go the other extreme.
46:13: It'd be better to deal with the offense or let the offense pass than to go to the other extreme and compromise the gospel because we want to get people who will agree with us.
46:22: I think I read something, again, don't quote me on this, but I think I read something about someone who was trying to see if there were maybe
46:28: Muslims that would want to get together with Catholics and try to in some way stand up against this kind of thing, and you could see that there could be an ecumenical response, but where that leads could be problematic if it's anything more than just, you know, anything more than what's on the surface of it being offensive, you know, to what
46:51: Christ had done them. Yes, and Muslims, even a part of their religion, have a high place in their religion for their
47:02: Jesus and even their Mary, which are fictitious.
47:08: They're not the Jesus of the scriptures or the Mary of the scriptures. They don't venerate or worship either and believe that is utter blasphemy to do so, but they are often offended by this kind of thing as well because they have such a high regard for Jesus, and in their opinion, being a prophet of God and even possessing many of the attributes of God that Christians believe except for his deity and except for his crucifixion and so on, and they view
47:49: Mary in high esteem, but we have to be careful that we are not giving people the the idea that we are viewing the
48:00: Muslim Jesus as the same as the biblical Jesus. Yeah, and even the
48:06: Lord's Supper itself, which is obviously being portrayed in all this, the
48:13: Muslims would have a hard time agreeing with what's represented in that.
48:18: Right, because they don't believe in the crucifixion that ever occurred. Right, exactly, yeah, and then the atonement and the crucifixion, so they would see it more, what would be offensive to them is more of the fact that they're offending a great prophet of God, one of the best prophets of God, less
48:34: Muhammad maybe, you know, that would be where the offense would come in, but certainly not anything related to the actual event or what the meaning of the
48:42: Lord's Supper is. Now, just like with anything else in life, when something is getting global attention, shouldn't
48:52: Christians in wisdom take advantage of these kinds of situations as a platform to declare the truths of Scripture and the
49:05: Gospel especially? Yeah, in fact, Chris, as I was thinking about our response to this, you know, there's so much debate and back and forth about the response and whether or not you should be offended, and I think there's a difference between being offended and how you respond to that offense.
49:22: So, you can be offended and rightly so, and yet respond in a way, as you said before, that's not violent or, you know, in some way that's not appropriate.
49:32: So, I think there's a place to say, yeah, this is offensive, but then the response to that is the key.
49:37: How do we respond? And I think there's a place where we can express our disapproval to this and speak about, you know, why this is something that is offensive to us, not in a hateful or vengeful way, right?
49:49: We're not going to speak against people in a way that's not going to produce a means of giving the
49:56: Gospel. I think it's important that we do things in a way that's conducive to proclaiming the
50:01: Gospel. So, we're not coming out throwing spears, you know, at people or ready to burn down Paris and, you know, and cursing people and things like that, but maybe even just coming and saying, look, you know, this is offensive, but please hear me out.
50:15: Let me explain why this offends me. You mean I bought all that gasoline for nothing?
50:22: Yeah, and you have it shipped over there, too. Yeah, but maybe just saying something like, hey, can we just talk about this?
50:33: This is why this offends me. Let me tell you about who this Jesus is in this picture, what
50:40: He means to me, what He's done according to Scripture, who He is, what He's accomplished, how
50:46: God relates to me, because, in other words, using it as a bridge in some way into the Gospel.
50:51: So, rather than one extreme just responding in violence and, you know, you're offending
50:57: Christians and, you know, and becoming very angry and losing the opportunity, or the other extreme and just saying, just acting like it's not happening and not responding at all and saying, well,
51:06: I'm not offended. Who cares? There's a ground, you know, there's a place to say, let's respond to this and express that we're offended, but let's use that as a means of showing others who this
51:20: Christ is and what the Gospel is. I mean, what better opportunity do you have to give the Gospel than to discuss what happened at the
51:27: Lord's Supper? I mean, it's all there. The Gospel is in the elements. It's in what Jesus said.
51:32: It's the initiating of the New Covenant. So, I think we just need to be more on top of how do we respond to this in a way that gets the
51:40: Gospel out. So, we're offended. We can express that, and we should, and I think we have a right to, but also seeing it as a means of, you know, a goal in mind as well of getting the
51:50: Gospel out. Yeah, and we also have to be careful about our allies when it comes to the shared criticism on what has occurred here.
52:10: What I'm speaking of specifically right now is there is a phenomenon that is becoming more dominant lately where there is a growing number of TV hosts and podcasters and authors who are conservative homosexuals.
52:34: Fox News has a number of them, and recently,
52:40: I was watching a Fox News program that featured Tammy Bruce, who very often, she's right on the money about a lot of things.
52:48: She's very articulate, and she's very intelligent, but she is a public advocate of something that God considers an abomination, and she was not defending what happened at the
53:04: Olympics. She was very critical of it, but she was defending drag queens in general, saying it's an art form and that it was just poorly used at this event because it was unnecessarily offensive to Christians.
53:19: No, Tammy Bruce, it's not an art form. It's a grotesque abomination to God, and I don't even know why someone would think that's an art form.
53:30: It's even a mockery of women. It really is the equivalent of a minstrel show act mocking women when you have drag queens up there.
53:45: They're not typically looking like real average women. I'd love your comments on that when we come back.
53:53: We will be right back after these messages. Don't go away. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.
54:11: Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
54:20: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland.
54:28: Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is
54:33: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
54:46: Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
54:52: Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
54:58: Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
55:03: Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
55:13: Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,
55:24: Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the triune God that continues in eternity.
55:30: For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
55:37: That's heritage presbyterianchurch .com or call 678 -954 -7831.
55:44: That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them
55:49: Joe Roydigan, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, from Attoy in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.
56:05: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
56:11: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
56:19: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
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57:30: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?
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57:55: Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com
58:04: website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the
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58:28: Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly
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58:43: Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com
58:49: podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a
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59:02: Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
59:12: And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, New York.
59:22: Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Uvino, and thanks for listening. Dan is the president and founder of the
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01:03:05: This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:03:12: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
01:03:21: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:03:34: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.
01:03:40: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:03:53: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:04:03: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:04:11: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:04:17: Sovereign Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.
01:04:33: James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know
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01:05:53: That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading.
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01:06:57: Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And let me highlight a couple of books that you should definitely get a hold of that are available through solid -ground -books .com
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01:07:35: Marxist and leftist and feminist tenured professor at Syracuse University before coming to Christ.
01:07:42: And she is happily married to my friend Pastor Kent Butterfield there in North Carolina at a
01:07:51: Reformed Presbyterian congregation. Everyone should have this book,
01:07:56: Five Lies of Our Anti -Christian Age. And also a book by a longtime very dear friend of mine going back to 1996,
01:08:07: Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. He and Jeffrey Neal co -authored the book,
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01:08:49: So visit solid -ground -books .com frequently, purchase generously, always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnsen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:08:57: Before I return to Pastor Mark Romaldi and our response to the blasphemous mockery of the
01:09:10: Last Supper scene as depicted in Leonardo da Vinci's painting of the
01:09:15: Last Supper, we are going to be returning to that conversation momentarily.
01:09:22: But before we do that, I have to remind you folks, if you really love this show and you don't want it to go off the air, please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,
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01:11:19: Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now. Last but not least, if you're not a member of a
01:11:26: Christ honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches.
01:11:39: So no matter where you live on the planet Earth, if you are without a church home that's biblically faithful,
01:11:44: I can help you find a church. Sometimes I've helped people in all parts of the planet
01:11:49: Earth find churches just a couple of minutes from where they live, and that may be you too. If you are in that predicament, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:11:58: and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Mark Romaldi of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, as we continue our discussion of the blasphemous mockery of the
01:12:13: Lord's Supper that took place recently at the Summer Olympics in France.
01:12:18: Now, right before the break, I was mentioning that you even have a growing number of professedly conservative homosexuals, like Tammy Bruce and others, outraged by what took place at the
01:12:36: Olympics, not because of what was going on necessarily, but that the timing and the agenda may have been off, that it was unnecessarily insulting to Christians.
01:12:51: They might equate it to, there's nothing wrong with eating a pork sandwich, but you shouldn't do it in front of your
01:12:59: Orthodox Jewish friends or something like that, because as I was saying, Tammy Bruce even described drag queens as being artists.
01:13:09: This is an art form, which is ridiculous. And she said it is not connected to sex, which is another ridiculous, absurd lie.
01:13:18: Of course it is. But Jason Chaffetz was sitting right in the same panel with her.
01:13:24: He professes to be a Christian. I don't know anything about his so -called
01:13:29: Christian background. I know he's a graduate of Brigham Young University, so it's possibly he is a
01:13:36: Mormon. I don't know. I agree with him a lot. But he, in protesting the event at the
01:13:44: Olympics, said nothing in protest to what Tammy Bruce said, defending the art of drag queenery, as it were.
01:13:54: And we have to be careful when we are publicly aligning ourselves with people that may agree with us on one thing, but we may be just as equally opposed to something else they're promoting, don't we?
01:14:08: Yeah, yeah, I think we do need to be careful, especially today, Chris. I think in politics in general, by and large, the
01:14:16: Republican Party, even the conservative branch of the Republican Party, is actually quite liberal in its take, particularly on issues that relate to morality.
01:14:29: You just see the shift on issues of abortion and just some of the pullback with that, and of course issues related to transgenderism, homosexuality.
01:14:40: Most of the conservatives today are fiscally conservative, and I'm not saying we don't agree with those issues, and I'm not saying that they're not in a better place that would be healthier for our country than the
01:14:52: Democratic Party is. But the shift of the Republican Party is so far to the left in that sense that we really need to be careful when trying to, in any way, identify ourselves with these folks.
01:15:06: Even people like Sean Hannity, who is allegedly a good Catholic, who's divorced now, and I don't know if he's remarried or whatever, but even him,
01:15:13: I've just seen him really drift in those kinds of ways, whereas in the past he had more of a moral backbone as well.
01:15:22: I think you're right. We can agree in certain respects, but we need to be careful that we don't align ourselves with them in such a way that people just distort the lines that actually separate us.
01:15:39: We need to be clear that we don't stand where the party is today and where they're going, and those kinds of areas, as you said, where they see that as an artwork and things like that.
01:15:49: There's a real light, just such a light view of those kinds of things, transgenderism and homosexuality and things like that from the conservative base overall.
01:16:00: I'm not saying all of them, but in a general sense, yeah. Well, let's move on to another area of the
01:16:08: Olympics, which may be even more horrifying. The transgendered so -called boxer, biologically male boxer who pummeled a female, a biologically female.
01:16:28: It's just amazing that we have to use these clarifying terms like biologically male, biologically female, but this biologically male a grotesque man who portrays himself now as a female.
01:16:51: There's nothing at all female in appearance about this person. This so -called transgendered boxer doesn't even have fake breasts.
01:17:03: I mean, it's ridiculous. You see this muscular man in the boxing ring who maybe have eyeliner on and an effeminate haircut beating the snot out of a woman within 46 seconds,
01:17:19: I believe. The female victim of this gave up and out of the fear of further injury, which is completely sane and rational to do so, she shouldn't have even gotten into the ring to begin with.
01:17:40: Yeah, but this is another reason why we have to even question whether we should in any way support at least this
01:17:56: Olympic event. I'm not talking about the boxing match. I'm talking about the Olympics in general, and there's going to be disagreement about this, and I don't think that you could necessarily take a hard line and say all
01:18:09: Christians must follow step with what you believe and do, because like, for instance, you may have
01:18:15: Christian parents who have a child who is a Christian participating in legitimate events at the
01:18:21: Olympics. There are Christians who are athletes in this Summer Olympics. So how do we as Christians respond to such things as this, in your opinion, especially when you're talking about publicly?
01:18:38: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a really good question, and I know that's all over the internet, as you said, all over social media, what happened with that woman from Italy, Karina, I think her name is, and the
01:18:49: Algerian man who was Imane Khalifa, I think, and you see her crying in the ring, the
01:18:57: Italian woman, and I mean, I think it's definitely something that we need to address, maybe even try to get down to the roots of some of this, because really, right, this is the product of, you know, this is something that's building on something else.
01:19:13: It didn't just start with men going into women's, you know, sports. It started with, you know, even the idea of a man, a male being able to identify as a female, and the culture and surrounding society having to accept that, that as true, and everybody has to call that person what they think they should be called and identify them, you know, as binary or whatever, whatever choice they have, what they want to be.
01:19:39: And it really comes down to, at the root of it all, right, a rejection of God, a rejection of Him as the creator and the designer, because we have, we are what we are, we have the bodies that we have, we have the gender that we have, the parts that we have, the hormones that we have, because that's the way
01:19:58: God designed us. And so it's a product of the fall, right, that leads us to distort
01:20:05: God's good design in every area of life. So it leads to all kinds of problems. And one of those things, as it's carried out further and further down the road, is to be able to get up and actually say, well,
01:20:16: I don't think I'm a male today, right? You've already rejected the designer, so everything's up for grabs. Well, I think
01:20:21: I'm a cat, or I think I'm something else. And with that kind of logic, when you carry that out, and you have no
01:20:27: God, which means you have no law or universal law, and you have no design, you can put children in the ring, you know, at some point with adult males and have them, you know, boxing or worse, even than that, children, you know, being able to be touched and, you know, and violated by adults, because as long as they agree with it, or they don't, they're okay with it.
01:20:50: And so it's just, it's a product of that kind of, of that kind of compromise with who
01:20:55: God is in Scripture. But yeah, I mean, it's a clear, it's something that should really disturb us.
01:21:03: I mean, even we talked about being offended, it should disturb us to sit there and to watch a male actually pummeling a female.
01:21:12: It's so disturbing, you know, to see that. And we talked about some of those things, Chris, earlier, just women being welcomed into situations that at other points in history, where there was a respect for God, where there would be a clear delineation between what manhood is and womanhood is, and even the types of things that women should partake in or shouldn't partake in, just that respect for what a woman is, you know, is the way that she's designed, the emotional aspect, the weaker vessel aspect of that.
01:21:46: And so, yeah, I think that we should stand up. And it is showing up, as we've seen as well, in that there are women who have been strong proponents of transgenderism and, you know, women becoming, you know, very independent in a sense, and let's get rid of the male leadership, male headship.
01:22:07: And it's kind of backfiring on them, because a lot of them are saying that, okay, well, you've opened the door a crack there, and now it's here.
01:22:14: And there's some of those women even are saying, well, this isn't fair, and this isn't right. And I agree with them.
01:22:20: But when you open the crack even a little bit, here we are. But I think we should take a stand.
01:22:26: But again, we need to do it in a way where we get down to the root of it and not just at the surface.
01:22:31: So we deal with it at the level of the gospel, the fall of man, and show how it's getting here.
01:22:37: And at the same time, trying to protect our women right and pull them, I don't want to say just let them get pummeled and not address that.
01:22:43: But I think that we need to get down to the root issues here, and hopefully pray that God will use it to see just the disorderliness of man as a result of this in nature.
01:22:53: And this is where we are apart from God. And I'm assuming you agree with me, but I don't know.
01:22:59: I'll find out in a second, that it's completely appropriate for a Christian to publicly say,
01:23:07: I am not going to watch the Olympics for one second because of this grotesque dishonoring of God and his word.
01:23:17: It's one thing to say that, and another thing to say that a Christian is a sinner because he's watching the
01:23:24: Olympics, especially if he happens to know Christians that are involved in the games.
01:23:31: Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree with that, Chris. I don't think it's wrong at all for someone to come out and say, because of this,
01:23:38: I'm not going to in any way show support to the
01:23:43: Olympics at all because they're allowing this kind of thing. And I think you're right.
01:23:49: It's a difference between saying that and someone coming out and saying that you're not a Christian or how could you be a man or woman of God if you watch anything at all in the
01:24:00: Olympics? I think that it's something that has to come back to the conscience. But I can see that as being an area that we have to respect the sensitivities of people on both sides of the fence, so to speak, with this.
01:24:14: I can see a healthy place for coming out and saying that I'm taking a step out in this area and I'm not going to support it at all.
01:24:21: So yeah, there's nothing wrong with voicing that at all. Yeah, it just popped into my head.
01:24:28: Pastor Doug McMasters, who advertises New Hyde Park Baptist Church on the show, was quoting the
01:24:35: Chariots of Fire movie where Eric Liddell, I think he may be mispronouncing
01:24:43: Eric's last name, he calls him Liddell, but he was the Scottish athlete during the
01:24:52: Olympics in Germany when Hitler was Führer.
01:24:58: And it's interesting that he viewed being involved in any kind of athletic activity on the
01:25:10: Sabbath to be a violation of God's commands, but he still participated in the games, just refusing to compete on the
01:25:20: Sabbath. So there you have an example of someone who is an honorable Christian, in some ways a
01:25:28: Christian hero from our past, who used his gift at an event like that, but not putting his seal of approval on everything that happened.
01:25:41: Now, of course, what we are seeing today makes that pale in comparison and pale into insignificance in comparison, but the point is there that you have a man at the same time making a bold stance for Christ and in publicly doing so by being involved in the
01:26:07: Olympics and declaring Christ as the reason that he runs, but at the same time not running on the
01:26:15: Sabbath because it violated his conviction. Am I making sense there? Yeah, yeah, no, you're making 100 % sense of it.
01:26:21: I think that was a real noble thing that Eric had done, and that's only one of probably a lot more than the things that he had done to show his faith and to step out in that way, and it did stand out.
01:26:35: I mean, it was all over the papers. I mean, it was all advertised. It got a lot of publicity, and he took that stand at a time when most people wouldn't have because you're like, well, this is the
01:26:44: Olympics. What are you doing? It's only one Sunday or two Sundays right out of the whole year, and if nothing else, his unwillingness to compromise really stood out, and like you said, today, everything is like intentionally, not just the
01:27:02: Olympics. I mean, everything is intentionally just set up for it to be on Sundays. That's just everything—sports, entertainment, whatever it is.
01:27:12: There's no honoring of the day, so it's even harder in some ways, but yeah,
01:27:17: I think I agree with you on that. I think it was a good thing in what he did, and I think it impacted people for great good, especially at a time when you see the collapsing of any sense of honor for the
01:27:29: Lord's day, even amongst many Christians. We have Daisy in either
01:27:36: Ataka or Atoka, Tennessee. Is that anywhere near you, Mark? I, man,
01:27:43: I don't know enough about Tennessee, but I would say I don't think it's near me just off the cuff because I don't know of any area.
01:27:52: ATOK. ATOK. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know enough, but I'm guessing maybe not.
01:27:59: Okay, and for those of our listeners who are puzzled why Mark wouldn't know, since his church is in Tennessee, he's a fairly recent transplant there.
01:28:07: He's a New Yorker, as you may be able to detect from his accent, which is so thickly
01:28:13: New York it makes me sound like I'm from Oxford, England. But anyway, Daisy says, do you think what is going on with this transgendered stuff reveals that there is something going on that is supernatural in nature, demonic forces that have brought many people who aren't even in participation in these vile acts to approve of them?
01:28:45: Yeah, I mean, I would say that that's just a biblical fact. I mean, it's not even an opinion that these things are all.
01:28:53: We know that right behind the scenes in the invisible realms, we know that there is an overlapping reality with ours where there are all kinds of higher powers and things at work.
01:29:05: And so when you look at and you follow scripture and you also follow just the trajectory of our nation and how we got here, you know, there are things that are being done today.
01:29:15: You know, when I was a kid, you know, when I went to school, you would never, ever, ever have had a single person in the entire school who would have come up and said, you know, oh,
01:29:26: I think I'm a girl or I think I'm a boy when they really were the opposite. It would have been unheard of. You know, you had some homosexuality, but even that was more discreet to some extent.
01:29:35: So these things have opened so wide. And a lot of that does have to do with the ongoing rejection of the gospel and God giving us over to our sins, as he talks about in Romans when he hardens the people and they suppress the truth on unrighteousness.
01:29:50: And so he gives them over. And before you know it, there's attraction between same sexes and they continue on and God just hardens more and more.
01:29:58: And so I think what we're seeing is the evidence of it, of our nation, really in a state of deep hardness from God under judgment, really under judgment, not awaiting judgment.
01:30:09: That's true. But under judgment, that's evidence of his judgment upon us. And now it's just the acceptable thing.
01:30:17: It's become like the avenue of trying to get attention. Right. If you say you're a pro transgender, it's almost like it's a wonderful thing to just say that so that you can kind of get accolades and everybody kind of falls around you and hugs you and you're welcomed.
01:30:32: You know, and it's a means of being welcomed if you accept this and even approve of it. And that's why you have even people in these wealthy companies,
01:30:42: Target or whatever, when they highlighted or advertised for these things, they know they're going to lose a lot of money because of it, but they still do it and cater to it to try to appease those who are given over to this.
01:30:56: So yeah, to answer the question just simply and basically, it's definitely an evidence of demonic action and what's going on.
01:31:04: But it's also an evidence of God removing his common grace in that area and just delivering us over to our sins.
01:31:12: You want to reject me. You want to continue to not give thanks to me and acknowledge me as God and reject my son.
01:31:19: Okay, well, let's see where that leads now. Let me remove my restraining grace. And before you know it, we're just doing insane things, even like denying our own gender and dressing up as opposite sex and everything else.
01:31:33: So yeah. Yeah, when you look at photographs of that man in the boxing ring beating the snot out of a woman, it has reached a point of utter and sheer insanity in addition to being vile and grotesque satanic activity.
01:31:57: It's just crazy that anybody would say that's a woman.
01:32:03: You can't deny it. You can't question what that person believes she is.
01:32:09: Of course, I would never use the word she in describing that. But isn't this just mind boggling insanity and lunacy?
01:32:18: And in fact, I don't think a single person on the planet Earth believes that's a woman no matter what they say.
01:32:27: They don't know. They don't believe that's a woman. No. And 25 years ago, if something like this happened, you would have seen that boxer torn limb from limb from everybody who was, you know, live there watching or, you know, people even even just your average people who are rejecters of the gospel would have would have been sensitive to that and said, how could you do that?
01:32:50: You know, that kind of thing. So, yeah, it's you want to say it's insane in one sense.
01:32:56: But the reality is insanity almost almost gives it too much credit. It's really a hardness.
01:33:02: It's an actual hardness of heart because they know, like you said, Chris, deep down inside, everybody knows that this that that's a male, you know, that's 100 percent.
01:33:12: They know that. And yet they're approving it in there. It's almost like sticking up the middle finger at God like this, an intentional rebellion against Christianity, Christian principles and against God because of because people want their sin.
01:33:24: They want to continue in their sin. And so they're angry at God. And so they're going to approve things that they themselves, even though are completely logically just nonsense.
01:33:35: Right. The thing Satan does influence people in acting crazy, because even in the account of the demoniac and Luke, after he was exercised and expelled of the demons, he was clothed in his right mind afterwards.
01:33:58: Yeah, that's right. We have. Let's see,
01:34:06: I was just looking at this question from. A Flanders, Long Island, and it is.
01:34:18: Michelle from Flanders, Long Island, wants to know, do you believe it is appropriate at all to begin with to have women involved in the sport of boxing?
01:34:30: Oh, that's interesting, because Pastor Mark and I were discussing that briefly before the show. And I and I was saying that although I fully support women learning how to defend themselves,
01:34:45: I don't have any problem with women learning martial arts. And especially when you when you're involved in martial arts.
01:34:55: The intention in the sport is not to physically harm your opponent.
01:35:03: And it is more of a restrained participation in using those arts.
01:35:14: And in fact, I know a friend of mine has a daughter who has achieved a black belt in several martial arts, and she has retained her femininity.
01:35:26: She's not a butch woman, masculine, and she's also a
01:35:32: Marx person and an expert with firearms and in the military.
01:35:38: I don't believe that women should be in combat, but she happens to be in the military. Now, that there is a different phenomenon with the sport of boxing, though, because your intention is to knock someone unconscious.
01:35:52: So I can see some validity in being opposed to women being involved in boxing.
01:35:59: What is your thought on that? Yeah, I don't think it's it's a healthy thing at all as well.
01:36:06: And it's not to degrade women. It's not to say that they're not strong women and that women can't learn, you know, all the different techniques of boxing.
01:36:13: And there are probably many women boxers who would knock me out. But I just I don't think it's appropriate.
01:36:19: I don't think it's God honoring when you look at what a woman is supposed to be like in scripture, just the you know, the gentle, quiet disposition.
01:36:27: But as you said, Chris, I don't think self -defense is wrong. But I but to them to be, you know, pummel each other in the face and, you know, trying to knock each other out.
01:36:37: I just I don't think that's befitting of of what the scriptures describe as as a godly women.
01:36:43: And I would agree with you as well with the military. I think that I don't think it would be a good thing for a woman.
01:36:49: And you see this even in scripture as well with those who went out to war for a woman to be out actually in the infantry, like, you know, actually fighting the battle and the scenes, because there are certainly things that can happen to a woman that can't happen to a man as you know, as serious and as far as what can take place with a woman if she gets captured and things like that.
01:37:09: So I don't I don't I don't see that as as a healthy thing in and of itself. But but it being the case that we have women boxing,
01:37:18: I certainly think it's even worse to be at a level where now you have a man boxing.
01:37:23: A woman is taking at least at least a woman boxing a woman. You know, there's there's an equality of, you know, of, you know, their abilities and strength and where they're at, you know, their their hormones and so on.
01:37:37: It's not a man. So, yeah, and there has been an overall effort to in the media and in movies and in television to give women masculine roles and feature them as experts in masculine activity where they shouldn't be involved in that.
01:38:00: They're destroying their femininity. And once again, I have to repeat that my friend's daughter, for instance, is involved in the martial arts and an expert at them.
01:38:11: And I don't have a problem with that. I think with the growing number of male creeps out there,
01:38:17: I think I think it's good for women to learn how to defend themselves. But that's a different thing than the sport of boxing, though.
01:38:26: And if you look to Chris, like, I mean, I probably wouldn't be underestimating to say, like, 90 percent of the the movies and the media that's out there really has the emphasis on a woman being the, you know, the superhero who's out there knocking people out and around and all that.
01:38:46: And the men are kind of really weak. They're just portrayed as weak buffoons. And, you know, they don't even know their left arm from their right arm.
01:38:53: And even in the household, the men are just idiots, you know, just beer drinking idiots, you know, out in the you know, in the yard and the women, the ones who are who are, you know, running the ship.
01:39:03: And it's there really is a push to minimize the importance of masculinity.
01:39:09: Right. They call it toxic masculinity and a toxic masculinity today is what is is what healthy masculinity used to be.
01:39:16: It's not this, you know, this extreme sense of abuse that you might think of when you think of toxic masculinity.
01:39:21: So it's so it's even it's we're so inundated in our culture by the emphasis on feminism and on it's bad to be, you know, to to emphasize anything about a man, even with all the the intersectionality and all those things, you can you find that just men are just really being pushed back.
01:39:39: And and it's it's really it's it's affecting the way people think about families and about male leadership and male headship.
01:39:48: And and it's it's it's a it's a tragedy because you can see what it's doing to our country. I mean, look at our military.
01:39:53: Right. Even for that matter, what we have going on in there and they're feminizing things in the military. And so we're seeing the concept.
01:40:01: All this comes back down to, again, rejecting God and his design and, you know, for for for us.
01:40:07: And we are going to a break right now. And I want to tell our next questioner,
01:40:15: Linda, to be patient. We'll get to your question right after we return. And apparently she knows who you are because she has been attending
01:40:22: Sovereign Grace Church after recently moving to Tennessee.
01:40:28: But we'll be with you, Linda, momentarily. And don't go away, folks.
01:40:34: We are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors.
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01:43:49: Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.
01:43:54: Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider
01:44:00: Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the
01:44:09: Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.
01:44:18: I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised
01:44:25: Chris up for just such a time, and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
01:44:35: I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting
01:44:40: Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
01:44:48: I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com
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01:45:24: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our
01:45:37: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.
01:45:43: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:45:56: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:46:06: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:46:14: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign
01:46:20: Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
01:46:36: I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.
01:46:42: I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
01:46:48: Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
01:46:55: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim
01:47:13: Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
01:47:20: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.
01:47:29: For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
01:47:36: That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.
01:47:45: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:48:05: I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
01:48:15: Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the
01:48:24: Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr. Joseph Moorcraft.
01:48:31: It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.
01:48:43: Dr. Moorcraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
01:48:54: For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.
01:49:02: For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,
01:49:09: heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr.
01:49:18: Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. Puritan Reformed is a
01:49:25: Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.
01:49:35: Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.
01:49:42: We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.
01:49:55: We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt
01:50:01: Christ. This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.
01:50:07: Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.
01:50:15: Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com.
01:50:37: Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Shopping Zion radio program.
01:50:48: SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties, and much more.
01:50:59: We can be reached at securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com.
01:51:08: But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
01:51:21: Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.
01:51:29: In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt
01:51:34: God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.
01:51:40: He sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.
01:51:48: That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
01:52:00: I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the
01:52:07: Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
01:52:16: That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.
01:52:26: That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word, and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
01:52:45: God bless you. And folks, please also never forget that Iron Shop and Zion Radio is sponsored in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco &
01:52:56: Associates. If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the
01:53:03: United States, call Dan Buttafuoco, attorney at law, at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com,
01:53:14: 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Please mention to Dan Buttafuoco that you heard about his law firm,
01:53:19: Buttafuoco & Associates, and Chris Arnzen on Iron Shop and Zion Radio. And I also want to make sure that our listeners know about a conference coming up, a marriage conference that's being held at the church where I was formerly a member on Long Island and where Pastor Mark, my guest today, was formerly one of the pastors,
01:53:42: Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick. They are having a marriage conference from Friday, August 23rd through Saturday, August 24th, and they are featuring the guest speaker,
01:53:55: Dr. Joe Rigney. And if you would like to register for this marriage conference, go to gracereformedbaptistchurch .org,
01:54:06: gracereformedbaptistchurch .org. Okay, now we go back to our listener question from Linda, and she says,
01:54:16: My name is Linda, and I recently moved to Tennessee and started attending Sovereign Grace Church. Upon my arrival, in response to Pastor Mark's comment of using this incident as a means to get the gospel out,
01:54:28: I was reminded of the Genesis account when Joseph faced his brothers and said, As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.
01:54:39: My prayer is that the Lord will be quick in his providence to use this sad and profane incident to grow the
01:54:46: Christian in their sanctification and bring our Lord Jesus the glory to him.
01:54:52: Thank you for all you do. Very, very wise and insightful comment from Linda.
01:54:58: Any response to that? Amen. I just, I think it speaks for itself.
01:55:03: Thank you so much, Linda. I think that that's right on and well written, and I agree with you. That's a great prayer, and let's pray to that end.
01:55:10: Very good. Well, before I take any more listener questions, I really want to make sure that you have anything to say that you wanted to make sure was included in our conversation today, and then if we have time,
01:55:24: I'll take another listener question or two. Yeah, I would just say, Chris, that I think that these kinds of things that are happening around us and our culture and even the continued regression of our country into deeper and deeper sin and hardness that I would pray and hope that our churches would be ready to all the more stand out as lights, to walk in a way that's pleasing to our
01:55:51: Lord and Savior, and to use these opportunities as means of outreach, not to ignore them, not to let them pass by, but these are hot topics that may open up avenues to speak to others, and if we do it with a sense of grace so that there's nothing wrong with being able to express a concern or even to say that, yeah, this does offend, but just to respond in a way where we're not going overboard and swinging the sword, but even explaining why and using that as an opportunity for the gospel.
01:56:23: So I would just want to encourage everyone, please, to use this opportunity as much as you can to get the gospel out and to take a firm stance and to let your light shine before men.
01:56:36: Amen, and we have a listener named
01:56:44: Bob in White Plains, New York, and Bob asks the question, so unless I missed this already, and I apologize if you're repeating yourself, what specifically are ideas that you have how
01:57:02: Christians can productively respond to this protest, what has happened without perhaps even drawing, without even drawing unnecessary added attention to these events which sometimes happen during public protests of things that Christians participate in?
01:57:22: Yeah, that's interesting. I remember when there were long lines of picketers during the showing of the
01:57:30: Last Temptation of Christ movie, and that was actually bringing more attention to that horrible film.
01:57:38: It was giving it free advertising. Yeah, so that was an interesting added factor that Bob in White Plains brought up, but any comments on that?
01:57:51: Yeah, just quickly, Bob, I would say that, you know, to use this opportunity, as I was just saying, as a means of getting the gospel out there, most of the people who have witnessed this scene on their television sets in the general culture at large in our country and probably all over the world has not the slightest clue of what the
01:58:12: Lord's Supper, what that Last Supper even means, what it represents, what happened there, what the cup represents, the bread.
01:58:20: They probably don't even really understand anything other than a surface level of what they've experienced maybe in a Roman Catholic setting.
01:58:25: So it really is a good opportunity to say, hey, let me sit down with you, or even if you write something on social media, let me just explain to you what's at stake here, how important this particular event is, what it means, and use that as an opportunity to give the gospel.
01:58:43: So be offended, rightly so. It should trouble us, but just garner your, you know, your emotions in a direction, prayerfully, where you use this as an opportunity to be able to convey to people what exactly is that Supper, that Last Supper all about?
01:59:01: What does it mean? And press it to people's consciences, hoping that they will respond to the gospel.
01:59:06: Well, folks, don't forget about the website for Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee.
01:59:16: It's sovereigngracechurch .net, sovereigngracechurch .net. And also, don't forget about the conference where Pastor Mark Romaldi is one of the speakers at Grace Church at Franklin in Franklin, Tennessee.
01:59:31: That's September 12th, 13th, and 14th, and that's being held, as I said, at Grace Church at Franklin.
01:59:38: The website for that congregation is gracechurchatfranklin .org, gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:59:44: Thank you, Pastor Mark, for doing such an exquisite job, as you always do, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater