Keep sharing good news without ads.
July 20, 2022
OTIS BUCKLEY, Pastor of Highpoint Bible Church NYC, who will address:
“ONE URBAN BLACK PASTOR’s JOURNEY INTO the DOCTRINES of SOVEREIGN GRACE & SHEPHERDING a FLOCK to WHOM THESE TEACHINGS ARE NEW”
Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.
Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 20th day of July, 2022.
I am thrilled to have a first-time guest on the program who I met at a recent Banner of Truth Pastors Conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, and after having some conversation with this brother, I knew that I wanted to interview him, and I believe the discussion that awaits us will be quite fascinating and edifying.
His name is Otis Buckley, and he is pastor of High Point Bible Church, NYC, and we are addressing one urban black pastor's journey into the doctrines of sovereign grace and shepherding a flock to whom these teachings are new.
And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Otis Buckley.
Thank you for having me to a most edifying talk.
Amen, and tell our listeners about High Point Bible Church, NYC.
Yes, and his step into the senior pastor role, and it's been where I was. We've got a great group of folks there, members there, and preaching that and understanding that I've been preaching expositionally, verse by verse, book by book, every once in a while, maybe stepping aside to address something that was a pressing matter, but for the most part it's been expositional, and that's been good for our congregation.
Praise God. And how long ago did your late father-in-law found the church?
Oh, goodness, that would have been in Yemen, and most recently we've been sent in there a while. It's likely that's where we find ourselves today. But nonetheless, great community.
Now, what would be a summary description of the church as your father-in-law founded it?
Well, it definitely was in Costa Rica.
Yes, definitely.
Yeah, and so my upbringing would have been more, what would be the term, classical Pentecostal.
Yes.
And, you know, have been, prior to my arrival, was definitely...
Yeah, and classic Pentecostalism would involve, most of the time, five-point Arminianism, where you can actually, according to their teaching, lose your salvation.
Yes, definitely. It puts that individual, that person with that mindset, with that thinking, it puts them in a burdensome situation where it's in their daily walk that they would get from the finished work of Christ, and the Holy Spirit really becomes more of a tag-along rather than the power within.
And so, yeah, there's that.
Yeah, in fact, I have told some of my Pentecostal and charismatic brothers and sisters, when we have discussions, sometimes they will wrongly accuse me and all non-Pentecostal, non-charismatic Christians, and especially Calvinists, of not believing in the Holy Spirit.
And I have told them that I rely upon the Holy Spirit far more than you do, because I don't even believe a person's own will can bring them to a point of a saving faith prior to the Holy Spirit bringing them new life and regenerating them, and prior to Christ giving us a new heart.
We who are Reformed have a stronger emphasis, I believe, on the Holy Spirit than even Pentecostals do, because I think that the tendency can be a very superficial reason to bring up the Holy Spirit in worship, which just typically involves how excited you are and how enthusiastic you are and how boldly you sing and how energetically you dance in the worship and all that.
But before we go into the actual main thrust of our interview today, which is the journey that God placed you on, which led to you discovering and embracing what have become known as the doctrines of sovereign grace, also nicknamed Reformed theology and nicknamed Calvinism and nicknamed free grace, and there are other nicknames that have been developed over the years, over the centuries.
But we have a tradition here, when we have a first-time guest on, such as yourself, that that first-time guest gives a summary of their salvation testimony, including the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and the kind of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to Himself and saved you.
So let's hear your story.
Sure. So I was told to attend a Bible study, and I had been on the nudge to go to the end, and I was hearing me come in public declaration that I wanted salvation, and everything about that experience would have definitely made Charles Finney happy.
But even in that, even in that, that was motivating.
Wow. So you're talking about the United Pentecostal Church International, or a different group within Oneness Pentecostalism?
Well, this was, in fact, it probably would have been the largest, or the second-largest Oneness Pentecostalist denomination, and then there would have been what's called the One Movement due to oneness, I think.
But that's kind of how, that's why I used it. The next day I went back to school and told all my friends about it. I had no idea I was setting myself up to be bullied and picked on. I knew, without even much Bible study, I knew that there were certain checkboxes, things that are right became the thing that I washed out that hatches every other thing.
And so a lot of that, but things like that. And so we had our outings, and I said that amongst my peers. It was almost like it was, you know, well, that's kind of what we do while the grown folks are, you know, washing, but we really sort of have our own thing of trying to, you know, sort of live this double life.
And so I found myself navigating those waters with God because I don't want to lose my salvation. Not because, you know, I just, you know, grieved and participate in my sin and really going against the Word and will of God, but it was more so, you know, I just need to get back into the arc of safety, if I can use that phrase.
Conviction on me and so forth. And then I get into young adulthood, get any better time in the yards, heavy into the yards and so forth. And nothing really panned out. I had a modicum of success, but nothing really sustainable that I could live off of.
And I remember sitting in my one-bedroom apartment, and I just said, Lord, what is this? My life wasn't necessarily improving economically. Editing sermon videos and all these kinds of things. And I'm doing all this stuff.
So that would be the New Apostolic Revival.
Yes, right, right.
Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. It wasn't anything like that. It wasn't like, you know, things like that that I know sometimes you can find in certain Hebrews. But this was more so getting into the Bible and understanding certain words in their sheep.
And I'll never forget, I had this moment. We didn't like what was going on in our lives. We could bind it. And if we thought Satan was behind it, we could bind him. And if we thought there was a thing in our life that we didn't lose, I'll make sure it happens up here and happens down there.
So, again, we've looked at that as a formula. Well, this class I was taking, I realized that wasn't about that at all. And I started getting into the Hebrew, excuse me, the Greek text. I realized, wait a minute, within the original languages.
And I'm like, wait a minute, this isn't what that means. But it's not what that means. What else do I have? And one thing, one of the things you've got to understand about, definitely, my curiosity to Steve Lawson, his cousin, Bode Boncombe.
And I'm like, wait a minute, work at night, 1 o 'clock in the morning. Every time they mentioned the book, I put it in my Amazon cart. Every time there was a reference to a podcast, I'm subscribing to the podcast.
So I'm going through a whole season of just ingesting this stuff and imbibing this stuff and looking at it, listening. And I'm like, and so growing up in these environments that go 20...
Amen. Oh, I just said amen.
And when I latched onto that, the sovereignty of God and salvation, not quite the people about. And I'll say this, and there was this, forget this, real today. I didn't have those modeled and they thought about how I categorize and speak about certain individuals.
I'm not saying that people, that everyone in those spaces aren't necessarily a fraud. I'm saying that what was happening was not real. It was not, but I didn't have the language to really articulate that.
I didn't have the theology to really get through with precision. But I just said, no, something's not right. One day I was thinking of John. See, in other words, I don't believe the way the apostle Paul was.
When I say the Bible teaches it, it's going to be my view.
Praise God.
Regardless if my best friend holds to a different one or my aunt holds to a different one. And I love my best friend and my aunt, but I'm going to go with the word on this.
Amen. In fact, we're going to pick up right where you left off there, because we have to go to our first station break. And if anybody would like to send in a question for Pastor Otis, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
And I could readily understand that a topic like this may evoke questions that are personal and private, because you may have people who are going through a similar journey that Pastor Otis Buckley has gone through and is continuing to go through.
You may even have not only a member of a congregation on that journey, but a pastor just like Pastor Otis was and is. Well, we can understand that you'd want to remain anonymous at this point. But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.
That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Otis Buckley right after these messages.
James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here. Excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C. for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible.
The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th, through Saturday, September 17th. And I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co-hosts of the Just Thinking podcast.
To register, visit g3min .org. That's g3min .org. And click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C. So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C. for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference.
Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org. That's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.
Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study? So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's word in those smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.
It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the word of God and is built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the Bible.
Hi there. My name is Jordan Too, and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House. Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources. Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor.
And for good reason, we are Baptist and we exegete the scriptures. If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the word of God, I invite you to go to our website, download a free study, BaptistPublishingHouse .com.
May God bless you.
It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world. Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed.
Dr. Joe Moorcraft.
I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland. Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area. Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards. And Dr. Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight-volume commentary on the larger catechism.
Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.
Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. Or call 678 -954 -7831. That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them Joe O 'Reilly, an Ironsharpens Iron Radio listener from Atai in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.
As a mother, I was looking for a magazine that would include devotionals that I could quickly do before school, and had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to understand, that they could read themselves, or I could walk them through.
There's tiered content, so that you can go to the older group and learn more, or go to a younger section, and it's even more simple. Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled Ignited by the Word, which engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God.
Order Ignited by the Word for your home today at ignitedbytheword .org. Learn more information and subscribe now at ignitedbytheword .org, and receive your first two issues free, and put good literature in your children's hands.
When Ironsharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Ironsharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co-host of the Just Thinking Podcast, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tom Buck, at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Andrew Rappaport, the Founder and Executive Director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Mark Romaldi, Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Christopher Cookston, Pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, Pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Ironsharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Ironsharpens Iron Radio.
Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.
If you love Ironsharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers. One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.
Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission? To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuco demonstrating the reliability of scripture.
To advance the cause of the gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible. This 17th century hand-engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.
This book is complete with gorgeous full-size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of Babel, and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.
Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before. You can have your own copy of this 44-page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.
Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org. Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.
Back, if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire two-hour program is Pastor Otis Buckley of High Point Bible Church, NYC, located in New York City, as the name would indicate. We are discussing one urban black pastor's journey into the doctrines of sovereign grace and shepherding a flock to whom these teachings are new.
Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and your country of residence, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
And before I take any of the listener questions that have come in, I wanted to have you clarify a couple of things. We were talking earlier about the fact that the church that you inherited, basically, was, in its founding, a oneness Pentecostal church, an anti-Trinitarian church, or Unitarian church.
And those churches do not comprise a monolith. There are differences among them. And I can remember years ago, I arranged a live, public, moderated debate between my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and Robert Sabin, who at the time was one of two of the leading apologists for oneness Pentecostalism.
Robert Sabin began in the United Pentecostal Church International, which was a much more strict organization, denomination, one might even call it a cult, because they believed that Trinitarians were damned.
They believed that we were actually tritheists, or as sometimes I've heard it phrased, that we worshipped a three-headed monster. And then, Robert Sabin eventually left that group and was, although remaining a oneness Pentecostal, was in a much more tolerant group that had ecumenical relationships with Trinitarians, much like T .D. Jakes and folks on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.
So, where were you in that spectrum, or where was the church in that spectrum?
Ah, okay. But the way it seemed to me, I'll say it that way, was that we had of who God is. And Trinitarians—not funny, but interesting—as I grew up, I really didn't know the difference, even just in that oneness view of my theology.
Now, there are a couple of other elements that are involved in some of the stricter oneness Pentecostal groups. One is the absolute necessity of immersion in water for salvation, and the absolute necessity of speaking in tongues as the evidence for salvation, not just as an evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but actually an evidence that is required for salvation.
Was your upbringing including those other elements of the more rigid?
Absolutely. Kind of a jigsaw, the way that it's carved out, the way the views are, and speaking in tongues. The second as important would define that. You had to have—.
Okay, well, we do have some listener questions. I will read at least one of them before we go to our midway break, which is rapidly approaching. We have Mike from Monroe, New York. I have a similar testimony to Pastor Otis, and I was delivered by our Lord out of the charismatic movement and eventually convinced that this was not biblical.
After finding the truth as it is in Jesus, I felt compelled to offer a witness to those within the movement that this was not what Scripture taught concerning signs, gifts, after the apostolic era, and the finalization of divine revelation and authority of Scripture, which is the doctrine of sola scriptura in a nutshell.
Does Pastor agree that we who know the truth of this era ought to, in love, address those who remain a part of it so that they may depart and embrace the truth as we did?
Great question. And there's going to be those where we want to snatch them like brands out of the fire. But at the same time, we want to—maybe grappling with those distinctives in a very—and one of the things that I've found—helping the audience or the internet, that that's going to be enough to change how a person is thinking.
But here's the part that, in helping them view the biblical analogy, that that's why they think they can do that in the first place. So we're not even starting off with the same framework of how to even read it in the first place.
Like I have done in my own experience, you'll never land on anything concrete.
Let's pick up where you left off, because we have to go into the midway break right now. Let's not forget where you left off, because I think you were right in the middle of making some extremely valid points.
Thank you, Michael, in Monroe, New York. And keep listening to the show, and keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio. We're going to the midway break, folks, so please use this time wisely.
Write down as much of the information as you possibly can, provided by our advertisers, so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers, even if that just means thanking them for sponsoring the program, if indeed you are grateful that our advertisers exist.
Because, folks, we absolutely rely upon our advertisers and the financial support that those advertisements provide to remain on the air. So if you really love this show and you're grateful that there are people keeping it on the air, thank our advertisers with the contact information that they provide.
And also send in your email to Pastor Otis Buckley at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back.
Attention all men in ministry leadership. You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring me, James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker.
Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also receive dozens of free brand new books. Donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom, personally selected by Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002. 631 -291 -7002 or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com.
Ironsharpensironradio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.
If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring, you probably have questions. How do you make your savings last? How much should you take out and when? You're ready for retirement, but are your finances?
Art Amundsen, an Edward Jones financial advisor, can help you build a strategy to help make sure your finances keep up with your long-term needs. Do what it takes to get there. Now it's time to make the most of retirement.
Visit edwardjones .com. That's edwardjones .com. Or call 717 -258 -4688. 717 -258 -4688. We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support of Art Amundsen, Edward Jones financial advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
Call 717 -258 -4688 today.
Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world. Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.
With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally, as well as locally. To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.
I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight-volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.
It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology. Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
For details on the eight-volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com. For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. Why can't we? How do we know we picked the right Bible?
Why do we go to church on Sunday? Parents, if your kids have questions about God's Word and His creation, they would love to read our new Reformed magazine called Ignited by the Word. This magazine is packed full of devotionals, Bible stories, church history, poems, activities, and more to encourage you and kids of all ages in their walk with God.
Created by a team of teachers, ministers, mothers, fathers, and more, we know how important it is to have Christian literature in our homes. Order Ignited by the Word for your home today at ignitedbytheword .org.
Learn more information and subscribe now at ignitedbytheword .org and receive your first two issues free.
And how He shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God-centered focus.
Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace .com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com. Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654. Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor. Chris Armisen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long-time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. They specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone.
CVBBS has been a family-owned book service since 1987, operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because, frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.
That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith-insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors.
Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. Order online at CVBBS .com. That's CVBBS .com. Or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231.
That's 1 -800 -656 -0231. Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org, that's gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.
Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.
He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big, penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the Internet where folk won't be led astray.
I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time. Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the Body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one-time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?
I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris, if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.
Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read.
Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God-centered, Christ-exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com. That's solid-ground-books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
And please never forget, folks, to make solid-ground-books .com your very first stop for all your gift-giving needs, and also to replenish your own library. That's solid-ground-books .com. Purchase frequently, purchase generously, and always mention that you heard about them from Chris Harnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Before I return to Pastor Otis Buckley and our conversation about his journey into the doctrines of sovereign grace, we have just a couple more important announcements to make. First of all, if you really love this show, folks, and you don't want it to disappear, I'm urging you please to go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.
You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion, and if you prefer mailing in a check the old-fashioned way, there will be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can mail checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
We are in urgent need of your financial help, folks, so please, if you have been blessed financially above and beyond your ability to support your church and your family, then please share some of the extra money that you have that's collecting interest in the bank or extra money that you have for recreational and trivial purposes.
Please share some of that with us to help us remain in existence, if indeed you love the show and don't want it to disappear. I never want anybody giving their own church where they are a member less money in order to bless us financially.
Please never do that, and I never want anybody who is really struggling to survive to have even more bills piling up on your kitchen table unpaid because you've given to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Wait until you are more financially stable to give us a financial gift.
Those two things are commands of God, providing for church and family, and providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God. But, as I said, if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, and you have extra funding, and you have money that you use for benevolent reasons, if you do love this show, then please help us with some of that money by going to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now.
Also, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful, Christ-honoring, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where on the planet Earth you live, I have extensive lists of faithful churches spanning the globe, and I may be able to help you find a church no matter where on the planet Earth you live, as I have done with many people in the audience of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio all over the planet Earth.
So, if you're in that category, or if somebody that you love is in that category of not having a solid church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line.
Also, if you'd like to advertise with us, whether it's your business, whether it's your professional practice, whether it is your church, or a parachurch organization, or a special event, as long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what I believe, I would love to hear from you, because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars, too.
Send in an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question for Pastor Otis Buckley on his journey into the doctrines of sovereign grace.
That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence, and only remain anonymous if your question is a personal and private one. Before we return to what we were last discussing, which was you were highlighting the fact that before you understood the doctrines of sovereign grace by the mercy of God, you and you believe most people in that category, before being enlightened to these things, didn't even have the tools necessary to rightly interpret the Word of God.
Before we continue with that, I want to also clarify something. I'm sure our listener, Mike in Monroe, New York, would agree with this. And I'm sure that Pastor Buckley agrees with this. But we have to make sure that we are not broad-brushing all of Pentecostals and Charismatics.
There is a wide spectrum of individuals and beliefs within that spectrum, some which would be damnable because it's actually denying salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, and it is a works righteousness theology, which Paul condemned in the book of Galatians as being no gospel at all.
But you have others who are believing in the same gospel that my guests and I believe in, whether they be evangelical Arminians who have a true gospel, or even those that believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace, who remain in the Charismatic movement, such as Wayne Grudem, for instance, and Sam Storms, for instance.
They are both thoroughgoing Calvinists. And I have a dear friend now in heaven, Al Stein, who was an Assemblies of God bishop. He was an overseer for all the churches in the Assembly of God on Long Island, New York, where I'm originally from.
He eventually, by God's grace, became a thoroughgoing five-point Calvinist, and it's really a miracle that he was able to remain in ministry in the Assemblies of God. And my friend Jim Capo, former pastor of the Massapequa Church of God on Long Island, New York, he is a thoroughgoing five-point Calvinist.
So we can't broad brush all those folks that come under the umbrella of Pentecostal or Charismatic, and certainly the majority do believe in the Trinity and reject strongly the heresies of Oneness Pentecostalism.
And would you like to comment on anything I just said there, Pastor Otis?
Yeah, well, is that misunderstanding and misrepresenting? Absolutely. I'll also say this, too. You know, it is, but it is that the doctrines of God, they, even in their preaching, friends the other day who are in another, quite a few, more than we are, and, you know, we can say in those, the understanding of the sovereignty of God, if God doesn't say, well, totally misunderstand.
I get calls all the time, messengers and inbox all the time, who are saying, hey, you know, last week I got some questions from the clutches of evangelism.
Amen. And so going back to where we left off, you were talking about, I don't know if you have anything to add to this, that you're talking about a problem of, basically, a lack of proper training in congregations on biblical hermeneutics, how to even understand, to begin with, what the scriptures are saying, if you want to pick up where you left off there.
Yeah, the Bible does, that there are proper hermeneutics to biblical, who don't quite, revealing itself, and that's when, if we don't have that understanding. So we have to be wise on the front end to understand, does this person work with the proper biblical hermeneutics?
If not, then that's our story.
And I happen to know from experience, and having friendships with Pentecostal and charismatic brothers and sisters over the decades I have been an evangelical Christian, that there is a gross misunderstanding about what the doctrines of sovereign grace really mean.
Going back to my friend, Pastor Al Stein, who is now in glory with Christ for eternity, one of the ways that he was able to remain in a pastoral leadership, and even becoming a bishop in the assembly of God, is that when they required an annual doctrinal statement to be signed, the issue over eternal security was, by an amazing term of events, you have Pastor Stein saying that he did not believe that those could be truly saved without producing good works as an evidence, and he called it evidential security.
And they accepted that, his authorities in the assemblies of God, because the term eternal security, unfortunately, is twisted by many within evangelicalism, which would convey the idea that you can live a completely repentant-less life, live like Satan himself for the entirety of your life, never repenting, and you will still go to heaven because of some past experience at an altar call or raising your hand at Bible camp when you were eight years old.
And many in the Pentecostal movement, especially when you're talking about old-school Pentecostalism, would see that rightly as heresy. And they don't understand, in the doctrines of sovereign grace, we adhere to something called the perseverance and preservation of the saints, that although works of men have absolutely nothing to do with us becoming a child of God, they have nothing to do with our predestination, election, or regeneration, they are a necessary evidence.
And so isn't that a big hurdle for many who are, sadly, adopting a work-righteousness understanding of the gospel because they really have perhaps never even been exposed to the right understanding of works being a required evidence rather than a meritorious cause of salvation?
Yeah, all right. And it's for some in the Pentecostal space. So let me say this. On the tail end, given just by my age, but, and you can hear, if he convicts us, that will then drive, he being God, that he goes one step further.
When we would have the benediction, the benediction, to God our Savior, our man, but here's the thing. We'll keep you from stumbling, or from stumbling. This is where biblical hermeneutics, we are a liar and his truth is not in us.
That is by my own ability, but I'm working cooperatively with the Holy Spirit. But even my cooperation in my sanctification is still powered by the understanding that now I've got to get back to justification.
How am I saved? See, it's God in justification. It's God in sanctification, and it's God in glorification. And if I unplug any gospel, any one of those places, it throws the whole thing off kilter, and now I'm trying to say, or I'm trying to earn rather, and I'm saying, hey, it's up to me.
Even though I end the service with, now unto him. So again, this biblical hermeneutics comes into right understanding. So I may fall this evening, therefore no condemnation to those that God, see, it's again, God again.
So I've got to see God in every single aspect of my glorification. Contradictions that make me rethink the doctrines of sovereign grace, or should I say embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace, because the stuff wasn't adding up.
Amen. And we have Marvin in Los Angeles, California, a first-time questioner, who says, I am a leader in a Latino church in Los Angeles. As a leader there, I myself am not as well-versed in Reformed theology as I should be.
And even less so in the case of most members of the church. The small group I'm leading now is going through Votie Baucom's expository apologetics. He has a chapter about the importance of creeds, confessions, and catechisms.
For most of the people in the group, it was the first time they've ever interacted with that topic at all. It's like we're discovering our roots for the first time, where with the American Baptist denomination, and for those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with that, the American Baptist denomination, although not every congregation is liberal in apostate, there are quite a number of them, perhaps even most of them in the 21st century, who would be leftist to the point of denying the gospel and embracing homosexuality as a valid activity and so on.
That's my interjection here into Marvin's email. I'm going through a book on Baptist history as well as getting familiar for the first time with the 1689 Baptist Confession. What baby steps would you take to try to get your church familiar with these foundations?
Any books you used? And I'm going to leave his second question, or perhaps that's even his third or fourth question, until after you respond to this. I'm not even certain whether you are officially confessional as the church where I'm a member is, but if you could respond to Marvin.
With regards to book recommendations, one of the things that's really helpful is if you can provide clarification in an effort...
Yeah, I'm a former Catholic, and my first hearing of those terms immediately transported me to my Roman Catholic upbringing.
Why? I'm not saying that this is the way to go. I'm not saying that this is the best way to go. I had to rewrite it. Number one, I'm just shooting for something biblical, all right? It's got to be biblical.
And that was a huge hurdle for me, and it took me probably two years to bring that about. Which, by the way, be patient. Be very patient. He knows what he's doing. He's working this out in and through you.
He has you there. So that being said, I had to rework it. This is in the Bible. How to do that gracefully and graciously, because I have a church that will probably... The Bible was very, very helpful for me.
Catechism, talking about certain subjects, and that's the thing. You've got to approach this semantically, right? So approach this with not just sort of, here it is, right? Eternal security, effectual calling, these sufficiencies, I believe.
And sometimes you may just have to really help there. I don't know if he's a pastor, as the lead pastor, or a teaching pastor or not. I'm not sure what... You don't want to do something that is irreverent or undermining to the leadership.
The Lord gives opportunity, and you find a theme in, say, the 1689 that is being used to substantiate that statement, hang out there and don't attribute it to the reference to Westminster divines, because that sounds like a person's divine.
And we'll have you answer Marvin's last question, or questions, plural, when we come back from our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks. If you have a question to get in line with the other people still waiting, send it in immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.
Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, we'll be right back.
James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C. for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible.
The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co-hosts of the Just Thinking podcast.
To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible, nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C. So join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C. for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference.
Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org, that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.
Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study? So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's Word in those smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.
It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the Word of God and is built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the Bible.
Hi there, my name is Jordan Too, and I am the Executive Director of the Baptist Publishing House. Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources. Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor.
And for good reason, we are Baptist and we exegete the scriptures. If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the Word of God, I invite you, go to our website, download a free study, baptistpublishinghouse .com.
Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron radio in the search bar.
You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work. Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.
Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly Reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show. Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.
Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers.
From Keech's Catechism and the Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York. Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening.
I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White.
At the First Trinity Lutheran Church.
In Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers. One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.
Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission? To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of Biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patafuco demonstrating the reliability of Scripture.
To advance the cause of the Gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible. This 17th century hand-engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.
This book is complete with gorgeous full-size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for His claims to the throne of the universe.
Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org. Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.
James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
And besides that they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post-Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding. No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post-Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.
All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching. Jeffrey uses the finest in buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my Nessie Olin 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a French tannery used to rebind a Reformation Study Bible I used as a gift.
The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome. Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one-of-a-kind work of art.
For more details on Post-Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding go to PTLBibleRebinding .com. That's PTLBibleRebinding .com.
Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.
Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant. It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.
It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing. We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.
Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.
Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402 That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org.
Attention all men in ministry leadership. You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastor's Luncheon Thursday, September 22nd, 11am to 2pm at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania featuring me, James White of Alpha Omega Ministries your keynote speaker.
Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal but you'll also receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom personally selected by Chris Arnzen host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon a parachurch leader or any other man in ministry leadership please register for the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastor's Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002 631 -291 -7002.
631 -291 -7002.
Or by visiting IronSharpensIronRadio .com IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you Thursday September 22nd, 11am to 2pm at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastor's Luncheon.
Welcome back.
Pastor Otis Buckley.
When we left the discussion to go to the last break we have a listener in Los Angeles, California, Marvin who was asking about confessions and creeds and let me just put my two cents in here briefly that I have found it useful over the years when people have a militant anti-creed or confession attitude I remind them that all these things are summaries when they are good creeds and confessions they're summaries of what the Bible teaches and everyone has a creed or confession it's just either good or bad in fact my friend John Thornberry who is retired from the pastoral ministry, a very prolific writer, especially on Baptist history he used to be in the American Baptist Association where our listener, Marvin, is still a member and he was reading in the official denominational magazine that the American Baptist Association does not believe in creeds or confessions and Pastor Thornberry wrote into the editor and said, do you realize that's a confessional statement?
You're using human words to express something that you believe that's outside of the canonical scriptures so anybody really has a creed and confession if they write something down about their beliefs it's just either biblically faithful or it's in fact if you really want to take a strict anti-creedal and anti-confessional position, your minister should ascend into the pulpit, just read the Bible and then sit down.
You shouldn't preach or exegete the scriptures which of course the Bible teaches you must do if you're a faithful minister and even when somebody prays, they're using their own words. They might be quoting scripture in the prayer, but they're using their own words.
So that's just my two cents about that. I don't know if you have any comment on that.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Amen.
Okay, Marvin says, was there resistance and I'm assuming he's talking about your introducing sovereign grace to the congregation where you are especially from those who might be more accustomed to a more emotional approach to church and are suspicious of too much doctrine.
Let me just throw in my two cents here. I think that we in the Reformed Church could use a little more emotion in our worship service. But anyway, if you want to pick up where Marvin's question ends there.
Yeah, oftentimes the thought is I would definitely agree with you on that. At the same time is to hate things unless they deny the inerrancy of scripture, then if they can see helping bring, if they you know, deny the inerrancy, the infallibility because that can be another inerrancy.
Usually most reasonable people in the congregation will go, oh, I see it. It's right there. And that helps with them receiving it and moving forward with it.
Now, does there continue to be or was there any resistance from your congregation I think is what he's specifically asking?
I'm sorry. Wow. Amen.
Okay, thank you Marvin. And since you're a first time questioner, send me your full mailing address in Los Angeles, California because you've won a free New American Standard Bible. Compliments of the publishers of the NASB and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.
We'll be shipping that Bible out to you if you provide us with your full mailing address. We have time for one last question. Alex in Winter Park, Florida. Can you ask Pastor Buckley how he navigates showing love and grace for members of his congregation that might still be trying to understand the doctrines of grace while not being domineering and pushing the position on the members of the church individually?
Yeah, I really need to go in a cage. But because I counsel I pray with individuals and deal with them and comfort them in various ways above all. But if I came and expect...
I believe that was Benjamin Franklin who said that, if I'm not mistaken. Was it? Yeah, I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said that about Whitefield, why he keeps going to hear him preach.
The Holy Spirit really helps both to hear and meet the preacher.
And we are out of time, brother. And I definitely want to have you come back. I want to make sure our listeners have your website. HPBibleChurch .org. HP for high point. BibleChurch .org. Thank you so much, Pastor Otis Buckley for being a superb guest.
Thank you everyone who took the time to write in questions and those of you who listened. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives, Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.