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What are some common mistakes new pastors make? How long should you preach as a new or visiting preacher? What are some tips on hiring a new pastor?
Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said,.
But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.
By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.
Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. Today is Tuesday, and that means Tuesday Guy is in our presence. Buenos dias, mis amigos. Steve, we have been accused of having too much fun on Tuesday. I've heard that.
Yes. And so today, we're going to give them some ammo.
I've suggested, you know, just between me, you, and the listeners, the hour of dower. You know, we'll just be dower for an entire hour.
Yeah, Schuller had the hour of power, and now we have the 24 minutes of dower. We like to have a little fun, but we still try to teach biblical truths. I'm not really feeling in the joking mood today.
So let's get straight to the program. And that is, let's talk about some pastoral faux pas, things that pastors shouldn't do, mistakes in ministry. And let's broaden it a little bit, Steve. Let's broaden it to things that people in ministry do by mistake, and we'll try to prevent them from doing it.
So not just pastors, but lay people as well. Here's a free one.
Change translations to the message.
So see, this is still the hour of dower power. That would be a major mistake. You know what, since we're doing that, let's have a little, what passage have you been in these days? We'll have a little message moment for a second.
Why don't we have a, yes, a message moment. I don't know. You know, have we read John 6, you know, 44 yet?
Have you read that? Well, you know, the problem with the message is they don't have the 44s in there. You know what I mean? They don't have the verses. Oh, right. It's just this, because it's more biblical, because in the original manuscripts they had no numbers.
They had no numbers. Okay. So let's see. This is John 6, the bread of life. Jesus does say here, after he says, I'm the bread of life, this in a nutshell is that will.
I didn't know Jesus ever used that.
Jesus said, don't bicker among yourselves. See, I never knew that. And then he said, Jesus sensed that his disciples were having a hard time with this. This is a tough teaching.
This is tough to swallow, he said. So that's not bad for a message moment.
Yeah. Sheer muscle and willpower don't make anything happen. Does that sound like Jesus to you? Every word I've spoken to you is a spirit word, hyphen. And so it is life-making, hyphen. But some of you are resisting, refusing to have any part in this.
Yeah. That's not that good. Yeah. No, it wasn't. It wasn't that funny. Okay. Okay. So pastoral faux pas. What do pastors do when they first get to a church? Would they make any kind of mistakes preaching for maybe like 68 minutes or something?
Would that be a faux pas?
Well, it could be a faux pas. I think the problem is, you know, if I were going to generically label it, I would say that they land with a thud. You know, they just kind of, they're determined to make their impact is what I'm trying to say.
So, you know, they make a bunch of changes and that could be a major faux pas.
Steve, when I first got saved and listened to sermons that were 55 minutes long by MacArthur or 60 minutes, I just could not believe that somebody could preach that long and hold my attention and I was just thrilled and thought that is Bible preaching.
And then what's the problem though, when we don't have the skillset and the experience of John MacArthur. Dare to be a MacArthur. And here's the thing that I found. People who say, well, I want to be like John MacArthur.
I want to be like my favorite pastor on the radio. They also don't have the congregation that's as mature, or at least they don't have it very often, that's as mature as John MacArthur's congregation is.
And they don't have the study skills he has. They don't have the communicative skills he has. You know, there are a lot of things that are missing from the equation. So, you know, dare to be a MacArthur is not the right move.
But you're right. I mean, you have to train a congregation. Look, if your congregation, when you show up at a church, is used to 15 to 20 minute bromides and then you're going to give them, you're going to give them a, you know, a feast as it were of 75 minute sermons, you're probably going to have a tough time.
They're going to look at you. They're going to start looking at their watch after 20 minutes going, is this ever going to end? Then they realize, oh, that was just the intro.
Steve, let's just talk about preaching sermons and the length of those for a little bit. Maybe this will dominate the whole show, who knows. If there's a congregation that says, we need pulpit supply and you're going to go fill that pulpit, do you ask them how long are the sermons typically, or you just, you don't even...
I just kind of, I just go off, you know, and I just preach till I'm done. No, I will ask the, I will ask the pastor, you know, how long are the typical sermons? And you know, cause I, I mean, if they're used to 30 or 35 minute sermons, I don't want to go in there and give them a 60 minute, you know, blast.
And on the other hand, if they say, well, you know, typically we go 75, 80 minutes and the congregation is like, can't you go longer? Then I don't want to show up with a 30 minute, they'll go, okay, thanks.
But when are you going to preach the sermon?
Steve, when I ask someone about how long are the typical sermons, because I pretty much wherever I go, if it's pulpit supply or a conference or this, that or the other, how long are the sermons? Usually I try to be nice and try to not make a bunch of changes, but if they say, well, it's about usually 20 or 25 minutes, I pretty much have a standard response.
And that is because I want to honor them and they have authority and it's their particular fellowship. But I say, if I could keep their attention, you think I'd go about 35? Or I say, if I keep their attention, I think I'd go a little bit longer.
And they usually say, okay, but then see, then I'm the determiner of who I think they're paying attention or not. Because I really don't want to preach a sermon less than 30 minutes.
Yeah. I mean, 20, 25 minutes, like I said, that's cutting it a little bit short. I mean, that's a fine devotional, you know.
Especially when the worship, that is to say the music, is about 45 minutes.
Well, you know, come on, it takes a while to build up to the guitar solo. And certainly the keyboardist has to have his moment in the sun. And then the drummer, you know.
If I was a new pastor, I would pick the Gospel of John to preach through. Gospel of James. I know, because I picked James wrongly when I first started. I was going to drive out all the pagans. I would pick the Gospel of John and I would probably, let's say I went to some seeker sensitive church.
That's what Bethlehem Bible Church essentially was back in 1997. And I would probably start preaching at about 37, 38 minutes. And then over a year or two, I would slip it up into the mid 40s. That's what I would do.
That would be my strategy. Because I'd want to preach about Jesus and I wouldn't want to have them go, that was too long. Actually, I preached here for a year when one man said to someone else here who tattled back to me.
By the way, congregation, lots of things you say about the pastor, they make it back to the pastor. Maybe you want that to happen. I don't know. But anyway, it was tattled back to me that this person asked this question to another congregant.
When's Mike going to preach his first sermon? Because they were looking for the practical how-to-felt-needs deal and they think that is a sermon.
Yeah. Well, that's what Steve does. So that's what Steve does.
Let me read you a real letter since we need to resurrect this show here pretty fast. We're eight minutes in, Steve. Raise it from the dead? Totally. Okay. January 30th, 2003 to the Good Hope Church family, written by the deacons.
The deacons have met with our pastor several times on issues that have concerned our people. One of the main concerns that hasn't been resolved is his sermon topics and method of delivery. It's a real letter.
Spoken word. This was an issue that the deacons were conscious of, even when Billy Bob Joe Briggs was considered for a trial sermon. Where they put him on trial? I know. After several discussions—this is in bold, by the way—with the deacons, our pastor still leans toward biblical exposition as a form of delivery.
In other words, we try to talk him out of it, but he still won't do it.
Oh, the shame of this pastor.
I know. Now, Steve, let's stop just for a minute in the middle of this message and talk about expository preaching. And some pastors think that it's basically a running, exegetical digest chalked with lexical, syntactical parsings.
A .K .A. the data dump. I know. And Steve, I have to admit—and maybe I still do that now, I don't know—I know I'm growing. I know there's progressive sanctification. But I'm sure I did that early on. You study a new word in the text and it comes alive and you're off on a rabbit trail and you're studying.
And then you have to tell the congregation all about it. And it is a data—you can just hear the truck back up, beep, beep, beep, beep. Why do we do that?
Because we're excited about learning and we think the congregation has to learn everything that we've learned. And that's just—that's not right. What I have learned over the years and what I try to do, I mean, to various degrees of success, is yes, it's great to learn the text, it's great to learn what it means.
But ultimately I ask myself this, how does it preach? And I think so many guys fail to—and I'm not saying that I have arrived by any means. But if you don't at least ask yourself that question and then try to get your sermon around to, okay, if this is what the text is about and this is how I can preach it, then why would I want to just back the truck up and just go, let me just tell you everything that I learned about this passage?
That doesn't help the congregation. Steve, I think what's helped me more than anything on a practical level is when I say to myself, what would I say to a high school group of young people? What would I say to a junior high group of young people if I had this text in front of them?
That makes me then consider the fact that they're younger, I have to use concepts that aren't so abstract, I have to better describe things, give more definitions, I have to bring down the hay so that somebody besides the giraffes can eat it.
Well, that sounds original. Did you just—you made that up on the spot, didn't you?
Well, I've seen some giraffes in Africa once, but I don't know what else they do. What do they eat? I don't think they eat hay.
No, I think they're carnivores, aren't they? I'm mixed. That would be bad if they were.
Can you imagine? You wouldn't be safe on a third-story house. That would be really rough.
Yeah, that'd be some kind of new show. I'm going to climb this tree and get away from this—no, you're not.
But honestly, if I say to myself, I'm not exegeting the congregation, I'm not parsing the audience, but I am saying I have a truth from God's Word that is transchronological, transcultural, and I want to deliver it to these young people, and I have kids that are that age.
What can I say to make them understand this passage so they can appreciate who God is?
Is the truth trans-dispensational, too?
Well, Tony Evans would think so, but I'm not sure. The letter goes on. In looking back at the past year with Billy Bob, it has been a year of many firsts for him. In other words, this guy's a rookie chump.
Yeah.
Boy, I would love to be the pastor of this church.
Again, this was something that we as a church body accepted when we called him to shepherd us directly out of seminary. Oh, that was a bad move. Unfortunately, it has become more apparent over time that there are some fundamental differences between our pastor, the deacons, and our church body.
Well, I'd say then that the deacons need to step down.
So here's something I'd like to say to the folks out there who are on a pastoral search committee. Vet your potential pastor, because once you get him short of a moral, financial problem, you're stuck with that guy.
Well, that should be the attitude, right? I mean, it's not like hiring a college football coach. You know, I mean, this is where you can just kind of ax him and, you know, and the buy out and there's no fallout.
Your attitude going into it ought to be, and I don't just say this as somebody in ministry who's like not wanting to get fired. Your attitude should be much more like, we're married to this guy. You know, like what you were saying, for better or worse, you know, look, is every sermon going to be the best?
No. But if it's biblical, that's what we want. But back to your point, you ought to vet him. Well, what's his philosophy of ministry? What does he think that not only preaching is all about, but his life is all about?
And you know, what's your philosophy of ministry? Do you think that the pastor should be this, that, or the other thing? And if so, then hire the guy that you want. I mean, if you want somebody who's going to act like a woman, then hire a woman, which just kind of goes to show where your church is, right?
Steve, lots of times in the days of pre-internet, you'd want to hire a pastor. So you'd ask the pastor, please send me one of your sermons so we could listen. Send me a cassette. Which is fine to do, and I'm glad you do that.
But you need to say, send me your last five to 10 messages. Because in those five to 10 messages, there's going to be probably a real doozy, you know, an excellent sermon. There's probably going to be one that homiletically fails, but you'll see the tone and the tenor of those 10 messages.
And you can say, you know, I could listen to that every week because it's biblical, it's Christ-centered, and that is excellent expository preaching. Because if you ask for only one, do you think I, the candidate, will send my worst sermon?
Whatever I think is the best, I'm sending. Here's the one where I really laid an egg. Listen to this one. Yeah, and then if you hire me, then it's all uphill from there.
Here's the one where I wish there was a trap door on the, you know, the dais so I could just escape.
While the deacons firmly believe that Billy Bob has the call of God on his life. Is that really his name, Billy Bob? Okay. We don't feel that he is a good fit for good hope. In the best interest of good hope and van.
Oh, I just said his name. Oh, well. Take it out of the tape. The deacons have requested that our pastor concur with this letter of resignation effective. Of Dan? Of the man? I think he's wearing Vans.
Stan? Well, you know, some days they're excellent. Just like with sermons. Out of 10 past NOCO episodes, some are bombs and some are good. His name is Jan? Jan. Jan. Yeah, because this is, I just got back from Poland.
So Jan would be Jan. Okay. We have given him a generous severance package. And two weeks. Listen, listen, this is how bad this is. And he may stay in the parsonage until the end of February. We hope that his time here has benefited him and his family, respectfully, the deacons.
Now this is written January 30th, 2003. He can stay in the parsonage with his family for four weeks.
Wow. Give, give, give, never take. Man, oh man, that is a great, generous, wonderful thing that they did there.
It only takes six months to get a new job if you're a pastor. And so you can stay in the warmth of the parsonage for 28 full days.
No cost or obligation to you. What more could you want with a generous severance package, which I'm sure was at least two weeks.
I know we've had to help churches around here. Well, it's been a privilege to help churches in this area in New England. And we, when they want to fire the pastor, ask the deacons or the elder board or the pro tem ex officio ad hoc leadership committees, what's the severance package?
And they say, oh, well, you know, six weeks. And then I'll say, do you know, there's a dispute between you guys and the pastor and you tell me six weeks and you tell me the pastor is a bad guy. He's not even here.
I take his side because you're not doing the right thing by giving him six weeks. He has a wife and several children and now you're giving him six weeks. They'll know we are Christians by our love.
Does he get a t-shirt to go with that too? I mean, wow, that's so nice of you guys.
And we hired him a cubicle down at the little office factory with some free wifi and fax so he can get on monster .com and get a job.
Awesome. The copy machine though is, you know, he still has to pay 10 cents a copy for all the copies.
So I think both pastors and congregations need to spend more time getting to know one another before they accept the call. So if you're a pastor that you want to be the pastor of a different church, I think you should listen to some old sermons, ask why the old pastor was fired.
That's a good one.
Asked to leave unexpectedly.
I wonder who took over this job. Don't you think it would have been good for that pastor to know about this letter?
Well, I mean, basically, should he know that he's walking into, you know, crossfire of machine guns?
I think that would be handy. How about we've set up a time where you can go to finishing school for your preaching and you can go up to Alistair Begg's deal or down to Mark Devers or John MacArthur's, Steve Lawson, to work on your preaching because we want to invest in you because you're part of our family.
Well, you know, you're only like a redheaded stepchild. And by the way, you're rented. So when we're done with you, you're gone. The problem is, and I mean, it's evident there, they weren't looking for a pastor.
They were looking for an employee. And when the employee didn't meet their expectations, they felt free to drop kick him. This is not, I mean, how is the love of Christ shown here? And the answer is it's not.
They didn't take this whole process seriously. They didn't understand that getting a pastor in there was anything more than hiring a janitor. I mean, they might as well just say, you know what, the way he cleaned the toilets wasn't good enough.
So we had to let him go.
Steve, if it said here, you minimize the deity of Christ, you teach that the resurrection is only spiritual. Yeah. OK, but it says here he still leans toward biblical exposition as his form of delivery.
Now, maybe the guy was hacking up the text and it was abrupt and there were no segues and it's a bunch of data. But still, is that the reason to fire the guy?
Well, shouldn't you have known that before you hired him? You know, I mean, if you'd paid any attention to anything, you would have gone, you know, this guy really can't preach a lick. OK, well, then probably not the best move.
Steve, while I rejoice that the Internet offers the best preaching in all the world with a click of a mouse, right, there's a lot of bad stuff on the Internet, but there's great stuff, too. People are now expecting their pastors to preach like R .C. Sproul and John MacArthur and James Boyce and Martin Lloyd Jones.
Instead, they're in the middle of nowhere. There's 2000 people in town. The church has got 40 folks there. They're going to offer the guy $19 ,000 plus a parsonage and they want him to preach like Martin Lloyd Jones and fire him when he doesn't.
They want to hear the brilliance, you know, of Lloyd Jones, you know, with the drama of John Piper and the exegesis of John MacArthur. And by the way, can you meet all of our felt needs?
And what's your visitation ministry look like? Well, expectations aside, if you have a pastor who teaches the Bible and you say, well, he doesn't live a perfect life and he doesn't always live a holy life, he's not there for every single function and he's got a few flaws, but he teaches you about the one who has no flaws and who is perfect and who sticks closer than a brother, I think that's a good thing.
I think you should rejoice that God gave you such a pastor.
Well, and instead of grumbling and trying to figure out how to get rid of him and what's the least amount you can pay him and still not feel bad about yourself, you know, Steve,.
Talking about these churches that have campuses with video screens and you don't get the pastor this week because it's multi-site. I said to someone the other day when a little kid runs up and grabs my leg and says, hey, Pastor Mike.
And I said, I'm glad they see me and they hug me and are glad. But I said to this man, I also am glad that they see me not when I'm at my best, but when I'm at my worst. So then they don't try to follow me.
I'm not Jesus. So it's nice to have your pastor around. You get to see him do wonderful things. You also get to see him when he fails. So then you say, I'm glad he preaches Jesus to me because he's not.
Little kid came running up to me and hugged me and and said, I'm so glad you're not a blue screen because that's where you were last week, you know, when the video went out.
No, that's not right. See, I cannot stand that kind of stuff. It's not all about us and our ego, but we've got six campuses with our face up there.
And next week, maybe you'll get lucky and I'll be at your campus.
Yeah, but it has to be top secret, because if you announce it ahead of time, everybody will go to that particular one.
Wow. We get to see the real guy this week.
My name is Mike Gabendroth. I'm here with Steve Cooley. You know, we've we've done better shows before, but no, never.
This is I would have to say on the scale and the listeners can certainly chime in here. This was the best show in the history of No Compromise Radio. I think that goes without saying.
Well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Well, the show you did on cardboard nativity scenes that that was a collector's item. Yeah, it was probably in the top two or three.
Yeah, I went to Aaron's Record Store and it was on the. Actually it was a cut out. Really? Yeah. Remember cutouts?
The No Compromise cardboard nativity scene.
I was watching a cop show the other day and there was a guy out in front of Aaron's Records on Melrose Street. I thought, what a small world this is. Is it on Melrose? I don't know.
I've never been there. OK. I gave that I give that all all that idolatry up when I got saved.
So I don't really know. How was that concert last week?
I haven't been to one in six. No, it's been years.
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No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.
Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.
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