May 20. 2019 Show with Steve Martin on “Mentoring in Ministry”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 20th day of May, 2019.

I'm delighted to have back on the program Steve Martin, not the stand-up comic, but the dean of students at IRBS Theological Seminary. In fact, it just occurred to me that my guest has the name of two very famous comedians, Steve Martin and Dean Martin.

But he's the dean of students, as I said, of IRBS Theological Seminary, one of the primary supporters and sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And today we are going to be addressing the theme, Mentoring in Ministry.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Steve Martin. Chris, thank you very much. Praise God. And before we go into the subject at hand, Mentoring in Ministry, why don't you let our listeners know something about IRBS Theological Seminary.

IRBS, my only residential.

Well, that certainly isn't me that has that much money lying around. In fact, I'm on the brink of poverty myself. But I want to give our listeners the website. It's irbsseminary .org. Irbsseminary .org.

Don't forget to put the two S's there. Sometimes when there's two letters together, people lose one of them somehow. But it's irbsseminary .org. And I'm sure if my memory serves me correctly, I will be repeating that later on in the day.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. And please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And that may be something like you disagree with the theology of your own church, where you are a member. Perhaps you disagree with your pastor.

We obviously would not and would not identify the name of your church or pastor in such cases. It could be that you're a pastor and you disagree with your own denomination. It could be that you are going through a transformation in your theological thinking and you don't want to identify yourself at this point along your journey and you'd like to ask a question.

We will broaden the questions to any subject regarding theology and doctrine. But today's theme is mentoring and ministry, and we especially want questions on that subject, even though we will not restrict other questions regarding theology and doctrine.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Tell us about exactly what you mean by mentoring when we speak of mentoring in the Christian sense and the pastoral sense. What exactly do you mean, especially in this title that you came up with today, mentoring and ministry?

The Need for Mentoring and the Dangers of Isolation

Well, why is this concept such an important one? I know that it is very dangerous for Christians to believe that they are islands unto themselves, standing alone. Sometimes that's out of pride and arrogance, where people just don't think that they need the assistance of others.

You have many professedly Bible-believing Christians who, perhaps in a distorted and unbiblical and heretical reaction to the heresies of Rome, which elevates the place of the Church and its hierarchy to a heretical extreme, sharing glory with Christ and so on, perhaps in a heretical reaction to that, people think that they are smart enough and holy enough and have enough insight and enough love for the Word of God that they can go off in the woods alone and just read the Bible and they will glean whatever they need to know, and they will even come up with insights that nobody else has seen, and they do not need the guidance and the tutelage and the mentoring of pastors or even other fellow brethren in Christ.

So those two are very dangerous extremes, aren't they? Well, they really are. In fact, most of the heresies that we see are really just old heresies in new costumes. Exactly. We have a listener in Bangor, Maine, John, who has a question for you.

He said, in addition to those heretical extremes of those that have responded against Rome in an unbiblical fashion, I believe that there are other extremes that take place in the Church where you have pastors who do not believe in the plurality and parity of the eldership.

Does your guest agree with the plurality and parity of the eldership in the Church? Because I think although it is not 100 foolproof in protecting the flock from heresy and error, it is at least a better barrier than a man on his own.

I agree with that. In fact, I automatically now want to have you back on the program to discuss that book that Day One Publishing has brought into print.

Well, it's been out for a while.

Well, I think it's a very valuable and important subject because we would be very dishonest if we were to say that those kinds of things, those abuses of authority within not only sole pastorate ministries, but even in the plurality of elders that can take place.

And we would be also dishonest if we didn't say that the Reformed Baptists have shared their guilt in that. Even though we are Reformed Baptists. So let's keep that in mind, and I'll contact Day One Publishing and see if they can send us some giveaway copies for our listeners.

Mentoring in ministry. Now, let's start. There's two sides of that theme. There are those that mentor, and there are those that are on the receiving end of mentoring. And of course, I'm assuming you would think that everyone, no matter who they are, should also be in some sense on the receiving end of mentoring.

It doesn't mean that they have to view themselves as a pupil or a student of the one mentoring them. They could be peers. But I think that as this radio program in its own title attests to the fact that iron sharpens iron, the biblical truth that we cannot question as believers in biblical inerrancy.

So if you could, start with the one who is mentoring, the one who is mentoring others. Good point. We have a listener in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, Ronald, who asks, Do not even the most brilliant among us, who might tend to think that they don't need a mentor for themselves, actually need to be more sensitive to their own flaws and failures because there is very rarely a person who is totally well-rounded in all aspects of Christian life.

They may be a brilliant exegete and know the original languages of the scriptures, but they may be lacking in social skills. They may be battling with the sins of aloofness and pride and perhaps need mentoring in how to be a true brother and friend to those around them.

Exactly right.

Well, it could have been a bad book. Amen.

We have to go to our first break right now. And if you'd like to join us, please send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. If you have a question, as always, as I said before, please give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, if you disagree with your own church on theology or something like that.

We will broaden the scope of questions to anything regarding Christian theology, but primarily we are talking about mentoring. And our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Steve Martin and our theme, Mentoring and Ministry, right after these words from our sponsors.

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We are now back with Steve Martin. We are discussing mentoring and ministry. Steve Martin, as I mentioned earlier when I introduced him, he is the Dean of Students at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own regarding mentoring and ministry or any other theological issue our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York who asks the question How does one go about beginning a mentoring relationship with others? It may seem arrogant if you were to walk around or call people or write people saying Would you like me to be your mentor?

Or does the one mentoring have to just wait upon others to ask him to mentor them? That's a good question.

Thank you, Bobby.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who asks Do you think that it is acceptable to get a mentor from outside of your own church perhaps even on occasion from outside your specific theological circles?

The reason I say this is that sometimes I think that we who are Reformed fail to recognize some of the gifts that many of our brethren have from other theological persuasions. I'm not talking about heretical ones I'm just speaking about those that we would consider to be different but yet biblically orthodox.

Perhaps they are Arminian or from some other persuasion but they have valuable skills such as spousal areas and also parenting areas. And there are many other areas in the Christian faith where even a Reformed person can learn from a non-Reformed person.

I think that I would say Yes.

And we need to learn. Amen. Something just popped into my head when you were speaking about James Dobson. I don't know if you know this. This is probably something that not a lot of people know but I remember years ago when I worked for WMCA Radio in New Jersey I was tuning in to the station when Dr. Dobson was scheduled to be on every day and I was thinking for a moment that he was replaced by another preacher and I'm listening to this preacher and I said this has got to be Joel Beeky.

He has got an unmistakable voice and cadence and homiletic style. And sure enough at the end of the sermon all of a sudden James Dobson comes on and says that was my wife's favorite preacher Joel Beeky.

I was very surprised coming from a Nazarene himself to hear that. Wow that's great. Right. In fact I will not mention his name but there is a very well known Reformed Baptist who I heard speak at a pastor's conference and he surprised everybody when he was asked homiletically who is your favorite speaker.

And this Reformed Baptist pastor said well believe it or not it's someone that you would never guess. And I hope that you don't quickly judge me for saying this but Norman Vincent Peale he said believe me it has nothing to do with the content of what he is saying.

I am speaking strictly about his delivery. There you go. And of course I think that many of our fellow Reformed Baptists are too quick to be overly harsh against our dispensational brethren when we have one of the greatest minds today and the greatest preachers today in John MacArthur who although he agrees with us soteriologically on the Reformed doctrines of faith he still is a dispensationalist.

Through and through I get John MacArthur. Yes I think that we have to be very careful. I mean it's amazing how often we who are Reformed of all people our theology is intended to humble us to the dust and to give a hundred percent of the credit to God for every blessing.

And yet we very often allow our insights that we have gained into the scriptures in regards to the Reformed faith. We allow those things to elevate us and puff us up. And it's a tragedy because it's the very opposite reaction that those doctrines are intended to do.

Well that's exactly right. We have an anonymous listener who says one thing that has been troubling to me for many years in the Reformed faith is when I see pastors mimic their mentors and rather than just imitating the things that all Christians should imitate from the lives and teaching of others they were actually taking upon themselves new voices like they were Rich Little performing in Las Vegas.

For those of our millennial listeners who have no idea who Rich Little is he was a very famous TV personality he used to do brilliant imitations of famous people, celebrities, politicians and so on. But is this not a very poor direction for someone being mentored to take?

I agree 137

In fact it's part of what I would say up our jacket at the right time in this room.

And by the way folks it's interesting how many people think that A .W. Tozer was Reformed because he's very frequently quoted by Reformed people. He was not Reformed and yet that just proves our point that we were saying before that we can learn and benefit and glean from people outside of our specific theological circles.

Amen, I know a lot of... And by the way there are, believe it or not some theologically Reformed churches within the Christian Missionary Alliances one in Colorado I know of for certain and I have met at least a few others, other pastors who are Reformed.

Good for them, well that's great. We have to go to our midway break right now. This is the longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they use this time to air their own public service announcements and commercials for the Lake City, Florida area in order to localize Iron Sharp and Zion Radio to Lake City so while they air their commercials and public service announcements we air ours that are heard globally, so please use this time wisely, write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because the more you do that, as I keep repeating, the more we are going the more likely we are going to remain on the air because we depend upon the advertising dollars of our sponsors.

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Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, God willing we're going to be back right after these messages with more of Steve Martin and mentoring in ministry. Chris Arnson host of Iron Sharp and Zion Radio here I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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Again, their information can be found at www .ncc NYC. Have a great day. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

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