Daniel in Exile Part 17

We're going to pray and then we will get started. Lord Jesus, again, as we open up your word, we ask through your Holy Spirit to help us to rightly understand what you have revealed there so that we may properly believe, confess, and do according to your Holy Scriptures.

We ask in Jesus' name, amen. All right, we have been working our way through the book of Daniel, and if I budget my time properly, we'll finish Daniel today. If I don't, then I haven't budgeted my time properly.

But you hated budgets.

But that's right, that's right. I hate budgets of all kinds. So, you know, you'll note that in the corporate world, there were two people in particular that I never got along with, CFOs and attorneys.

Okay, just, you know, any, chief financial officers, they are like kryptonite to people who work in marketing because they're constantly telling you what you can't do. And they always have money as the reason that you can't do it.

Okay, why can't we hire a circus again in order to market our church?

Because of money.

Oh, okay, all right, got it.

Now, I do have a question that came in that I think we can sneak this in up front before we get into Daniel. And the question is, how do we respond when unbelievers say, happy Easter, or happy Christmas, or tell us that they're celebrating Easter, but we know that they don't even believe in Jesus?

I just never know what to say. Okay, so you'll note that there are aspects of the two big holidays of Christianity, Christmas and Easter, that people, they don't have faith in Christ, but they celebrate a cultural adaptation of these holidays, right?

So, Easter is a great day off for them, a time to gather as a family and eat ham, or whatever, and hunt Easter eggs and things like this. And of course, everybody knows that the reason for the Christmas season is Santa Claus, because he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake, right?

So, how do you approach it when you have unbelieving relatives and friends who are very excited about these cultural holidays, but do not have an understanding of the biblical significance of these things?

This is where I rely on the, kind of the depiction that Christ gives us, that we as Christians are to be shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. And let me give you an example of what I'm talking about and how that would apply here.

When people that I know do not believe in Jesus are excited to celebrate the holidays, I always use the fact that they brought the conversation topic up as a way of talking about Jesus and what he's done in an aspect to those holidays.

And the older I get, the more ornery I get, and I think this has something to do with the fact that I had some pretty bad examples when I was younger, and by bad I mean good. Let me give you an example.

So, one of my mentors is a fellow by the name of Pastor Ken Corby. And if you've ever heard of Ken Corby, he was very well-known. He was, before the internet was even a thing, he was very well-known in the Missouri Synod as a pastor who spoke his mind, a pastor who very valiantly fought against liberalism and Marxism and the different ways in which Christianity was going off the rails to the left.

He was a man who just pulled no punches. And Ken Corby, when I first met him, the only way I can describe him is that he was a force of nature. And he's the only man that I ever received the Lord's Supper from where I legitimately thought that afterwards he had chipped a tooth of mine, because he doesn't give you the cup, he shoves it up in your face, okay?

It's like, whoa, I think I need to see a dentist. But what was really fascinating about Ken Corby is that he exemplified shrewd as a snake, innocent as a dove. And so, the first time I met him, I was at a catechetical conference put on by Pastor Peter Bender, and that particular conference was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

And so, prior to the conference each year, each day, they would gather at a local Denny's restaurant to have breakfast. And what Ken Corby did at Denny's was still, it still burned in my mind. And so, I'll give you an example.

So, we gathered there, and all the pastors who were at the conference, they had a single table that they were eating at. And then, of course, we mere lay people, you know, we were in booths kind of surrounding on the periphery of that particular table.

But, of course, all the regular patrons of Denny's were there as well. And what ended up happening, and this was by Ken Corby's design, is that the food would be brought out by the waitress says, because there was enough of them that it required more than one person to help.

And every pastor had their food sitting in front of them, and they didn't eat a bite until everybody had their food, and then Ken Corby said, gentlemen, I believe it is time for us to invoke our Savior that he bless this meal.

And to a man, they all stood at the table, you know, and then Ken Corby led them in a table hymn. And the hymn was, Feed your children God most holy Comfort sinners poor and lowly

Right?

And so you had all these pastors singing this table hymn at Denny's, and everybody in the restaurant stopped what they were doing and had to pay attention and listen, right? And then at the end of it,.

One of them goes,.

Amen

And these deep bass and baritone voices, right? And the people at Denny's didn't know what to do. Should we clap? This doesn't seem like the right thing to clap, okay? And it's like, and so he found a way so that everybody there got to hear these pastors invoking God and asking his blessing on the meal.

And it was spectacular. Now, of course, he was, and of course, everyone else would sit there and go, gosh, that's kind of really in your face and kind of bold and blunt and stuff like that. Well, that's how Ken Corby was.

And so I had, when I met him, I was still attending a university, the University of California, Irvine, and I was president of a campus ministry there. And we had asked Ken Corby to come out to be our special speaker for an event that we were putting on at Concordia University.

And when Ken Corby showed up, it was spectacular. But in the weeks leading up to his arrival, I had to talk with him to coordinate his air travel, where he was gonna be staying and things like this. And so I was working a job.

I was working at a company called Passy Muir Incorporated, and I was their marketing guy. And I was at work, and Ken Corby calls on the phone. And it was, I kid you not, he called on the Tuesday after Easter.

And so I pick up the phone, because I said, Chris, you got a phone call from a Pastor Ken Corby. He's on line three. I press a button for line three. And I said, hello, Pastor Corby. And Corby goes like this, he is risen.

And I go, he's risen indeed. He says, I can't hear you. He's risen indeed.

Louder, no, okay.

So this is an example, again, true to snake. So there I am in my office going, he's risen indeed. And everyone's looking at me like, what is going on? Who are you on the phone with, Roseboro?

I'll tell you later, okay.

But that's kind of the idea. So when you have somebody that is a relative and they celebrate Easter and Christmas, but they have no faith in Christ. You sit there, and when they say, oh man, our Christmas celebration was the best, or we're so excited about Easter.

They are the ones who brought the topic up, and here's what you do. You say, I know, isn't Easter the best thing ever? I mean, the fact that Jesus rose bodily from the grave. I mean, I can't think of a better reason to celebrate.

Jesus crucified for our sins, risen from the grave, because he's risen, we have assurance of the forgiveness of sins. I'm so glad to hear that you're celebrating Easter.

All right, are they going to condemn you?

They brought the topic up. They're excited about celebrating these things. Oh, I'm so excited about Christmas. Me too, oh man, I love celebrating the birth of our savior, Jesus Christ. Oh, the light has shined into the world.

Oh, it's the best thing ever that God has given us a savior. You just share it with exuberance,.

And they're going to look at you.

Like you have fallen off the turnip truck, but here's the thing, that's how you do it. You're not being combative. You're sharing their joy, and maybe even not only paralleling their excitement, but taking it up a couple of notches.

Who's going to condemn you for being excited about Jesus, right? That's a great way to be as shrewd as a snake and as innocent as a dove. That would be my suggestion along those lines. Let people see the joy that you have, and if they would say, wow, why are you so excited like that?

Then share the gospel with them, right? Okay, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Anyway, so that gives you something to think about as it relates to that. Never mind the construction going on here at Kong's Vineyard.

Yeah, I'm not slapping the gavel down just to let you guys know. All right, let's talk about the book of Daniels, shall we? We are rapidly approaching the end. This will be kind of the last time that we'll use our Concordia commentary as it relates to Daniel two, because this portion of Daniel is actually super simple.

It's not that hard to get, and what's veiled in here, there aren't too many things that are veiled in apocalyptic language. There are a few things. So here's what chapter 12 of Daniel reads. In fact, let's read this out in its entirety, and then we will backtrack and kind of figure out what this is all about.

So it says, at that time shall arise Michael, right, Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people, and there shall be a time of trouble such as never has been since there was a nation until that time, but at that time, your people shall be delivered.

Everyone whose name shall be found written in the book of life. I think I've made the point already that when we talk about your people, Daniel's people are not Jews. Daniel's people are those whose names are written in the book of life.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt, and those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.

But you, Daniel, shut up the words, seal the book until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase. Then I, Daniel, I looked, and behold, two others stood, one on this bank of the stream and the other on that bank of the stream.

And someone said to the man clothed in linen who was above the waters of the stream. A little bit of a note here. Remember, the man clothed in linen is Jesus, and two others appear. Could this be an appearance of the Trinity itself?

That's kind of what's being hinted at here. And then, okay, so the man clothed in linen who was above the waters of the stream. How long shall it be till the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen who was above the waters of the stream.

He raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time. And that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things would be finished.

I heard, but I did not understand. And then I said, oh my Lord, what shall be the outcome of these things? And he said, go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly and none of the wicked shall understand. But those who are wise shall understand. And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1290 days.

Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1335th days. But go your way till the end and you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days. All right, all right. Some of this seems pretty straightforward.

Other parts of it kind of remind me of like when Jeff Dunnan has peanut out.

And he goes, yum, right?

You know, it just kind of goes right over our heads. So let's see if we can work some of this stuff out. And in order to do that, we're going to get past the linguistic part here. So here's how the Concordia commentary deals with this.

The divine man, that's Jesus, continues his explanation of the end times begun in chapters 11, chapter 11 verses 36 through 45. And we noted that that's talking about the later times, the times of the very end.

And this eschatological perspective extends then to the end of the book. The end times or the latter days begin with the first advent of Christ. They last throughout the church age and conclude with Christ's return followed by the resurrection.

This is a statement that you would do well to ponder on. The later days, they begin with Christ's ascension. They end with his second advent. We are in those days now. The church has been in those days since Christ's ascension.

And then you'll note there's a last, last, last bit of the latter days that is kind of talked about here. So Michael is guardian archangel of God's people, see the commentary on that. He will arise at that time to defend them.

The time to which the divine man refers is the time of the eschatological king, the Antichrist. Michael stands over Daniel's people. This is generally taken to mean that Michael is in charge of heavenly warfare in defense of the saints based on Revelation 12, seven through eight.

Now hit a little bit of a note here. There is a feast day that periodically will fall on a Sunday. When it falls on a Sunday in confessional Lutheran churches, we observe it. And it is the Feast of Saint Michael.

All right, you sit there and go,.

That sounds really Roman Catholic, right?

Yes, I know that it does. And it's this text regarding Michael and his job of waging warfare on behalf of the saints that we focus our attention on. And here's the reality of the situation. That angels, the actual cherubim, seraphim category, right?

There are armies of them and there is legitimate warfare that takes place on behalf of the saints that you and I are completely oblivious to. Here we get the reality that this is the case without the details.

And so you'll note that when Paul says, we do not battle against flesh and blood, all right? That's not some symbolic allegory, that's a reality. And you're gonna note here, we're not commanded to wage warfare the way the NAR does.

Are you familiar with how the NAR wages spiritual warfare? It's absolutely cuckoo banana town, okay? And I mean that in the truest sense. They legitimately believe that they have to wage war against the satanic forces in the heavenlies by going into a territory.

So let's say here, Don, are you familiar with, who were the indigenous tribes that possessed this land prior to the Norwegian colonizers? What, was it with the Sioux? The Sioux were here?

Chippewa and Sioux went back and forth.

Chippewa and Sioux went back and forth, depending on if the Red River was flooding or not, right? Okay, so here in Minnesota, in Oslo, Minnesota, there would have been the Chippewa tribe and the Sioux tribes and Sioux nations who would have been fighting back and forth and their relatives would have been the ones out here planting sugar beans, right?

Probably not, but you get the point. All of that being, Buffalo, right. I do think the Buffalo probably made it out this far.

Yeah, okay.

But all of that being said, then the way the NAR wages warfare is that, so they've determined that the Sioux tribe was here and so they would study the religious aspects of how the Sioux understood who the spiritual forces worked.

They would then engage in deliverance and in their healing to try to get the names of the demons that are in charge of this region going all the way back to when the Sioux were here. And then once they got the name of that demon, they would cast that demon down by naming it and doing a spiritual ritual that looks a lot like what Ken Copeland did with COVID -19.

COVID -19, I blowed with the God on you, right?

And so that's what they do and they think that that's what this is all about. Instead, note here, the scriptures are clear. We're not in charge of that bit. That bit falls under the purview of Mikhael, right?

The guardian angel of God's people. Now, do Christians have guardian angels?

Uh, yeah, okay.

And there's a hierarchy to them. I really legitimately think that upon my death, when I can finally meet my angels, I wanna shake their hands and apologize for making their job so hard, okay? Because I get the feeling at times that the angels that are assigned to work with me, that I hope they get overtime.

That's all I can say. But the reality is we're completely oblivious to what is going on here, but we know it's real because we trust the word. So you'll note then. So some have argued, Steinman argues that some have argued that Michael's role is that of a judicial defender of God's people.

This would make him the defender of Israel in front of the heavenly court, which was convened. While this is an intriguing suggestion, the parallel with the previous vision, the interpretation runs counter to the portrayal of Michael in this fourth vision as a warrior.

So the rule then of the eschatological king will bring a time of distress. Listen, you ain't seen nothing yet, okay? As bad as bad has gotten here on planet Earth, and I can't think of days on planet Earth that are any more dark than the days of the Holocaust.

How many millions of people, just six million alone who were Jews who died in the Holocaust. There were more millions that weren't Jews that died in the Holocaust as well. But that's child's play compared to what's coming, a time of great distress that is unmatched, unrivaled, never before seen, never will be seen again, okay?

Right, and so God is always the source and deliverance then from this distress. Jesus refers to this worldwide eschatological distress as existing immediately before his parousia. So note that this great time of distress will happen immediately before the return of Christ.

Again, by way of reminder, let's take a look at Matthew chapter 24, and the verses in question. Let me get my accordion software back up, give me a moment here. All right, Matthew 24, and it's later in the chapter where that appears, 29 through 30.

So immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from heaven, the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the Earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So note, the tribulation is right, the great, great, great, great, great tribulation, if you will. We are in the great tribulation now, but there's a heightened period of it right before the end, and in that heightened period, that's just before his return, and then everything just flies apart, is the best way to describe it, okay?

So this distress will be unique because nothing can be compared to it since nations first came into existence. This is similar to Jesus's description of the distress in Jerusalem before its fall to the Romans.

In fact, I would note that the distress in Jerusalem before the fall of the Romans is a type and shadow of the distress that the whole Earth will experience right before the return of Christ. Therefore, the fall of Jerusalem in its greatest distress foreshadowed the distress of the end time.

So despite this distress, Daniel is assured that his people, those who believe in God, again, note, Daniel's people are not people who are genetically Jewish. Daniel's people are those who believe in God and whose names are written in the book, okay?

Those who believe in God are heirs of the kingdom through faith. They will be delivered. This promise extends then to everyone who is found written in the book. This is a reference to the Book of Life, which is mentioned several times in the Old Testament, and God has record of his people, and they can be certain that they will not be eternally lost, right?

Your name is written in this book. If you don't trust in Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, you are not named in that book, and again, I point this out over and again. The damned go into eternity nameless.

I don't know you, Jesus says. And remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus. What's the rich man's name again? Old, yeah, what's his face? He is not named. That is an intentional detail that Christ puts in there.

Lazarus has a name. The rich man doesn't have a name. Note the rich man goes into eternity unbelieving, and as a result of it, Christ doesn't name him because he doesn't have a name. Christ doesn't know him at all.

I never knew you. If I knew you, your name would be right here in this book, right? So it is the same as the Lamb's book of life, which plays an important role in revelation. Through holy baptism and faith in Christ as the Lamb who was slain for the forgiveness of sins, a person's name is written in this book.

Jesus promises that the name of everyone who conquers or is victorious will remain written in the book of life, and God gives us the resurrection victory in Christ Jesus, and our victory over the world is through the perseverance in faith.

Remember when we went through the book of Revelation, major theme of the book of Revelation, the one who endures to the end will be saved. It's all about patient endurance, all right? So the clearest teaching about the resurrection in the entire Old Testament then is found in Daniel 12, verse two, which we just read.

Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt. That everlasting contempt is talking about hell, and hell lasts how long? Forever.

How long does eternal life last?

Forever.

The two go together. You can't unbind them, okay? So however, some argue that this passage does not teach a universal resurrection of all humanity, but only a resurrection of some. They note that Daniel is not told all, which would be kol in Hebrew, whose sleep will be resurrected, and so he's told that many of those who sleep will awake based on the word many and the following preposition, min, of whose use here definitely is part of it.

Some hold that only Israel or some portion of humanity will be resurrected. However, this is clearly contradicted by Jesus, who teaches that believers will be resurrected to eternal life and that unbelievers will be resurrected to damnation.

So this is an example, by the way, okay? This is an example of how you have to rightly order biblical text when it comes to dealing with the doctrine, and in rightly ordering a biblical text, you look at all, or a doctrine, you look at all the passages that teach about that doctrine, and the clearest one becomes the governing passage.

That's called the sedes doctrinae, and then every other passage is interpreted by the clearest, okay? So because Jesus makes it clear when he speaks of the resurrection that everybody, how does it go?

Slim Pickens in the movie.

Everybody everywhere, right?

Everybody everywhere will say that Clint Eastwood.

Is the biggest yellow belly in the West, right?

So Jesus, when he talks about the resurrection, he makes it clear that everybody everywhere will be raised from the dead. So when Daniel says many of those who sleep in the dust, now many makes it appear like we're only talking that there's only a partial resurrection.

Au contraire, Jesus makes it clear that it's everybody everywhere. As a result of that, Daniel is interpreted in light of what Jesus said. Does that make sense? So what Christ said is the clearest passage.

That's the one that governs, and the many here, it's just basically him basically saying many is everybody, all right? And that's within the way of properly understanding this text, but we don't sit there and then take Daniel and then contradict Jesus with it, okay?

Always the game that the false teachers play is they pit Scripture against Scripture, and by doing so, they end up obliterating the clear passages, and then they go to the unclear passages. They make the unclear passages govern, or worse, passages that are off-topic govern now, and as a result of that, those off-topic passages are used to undo what the clear passages say.

I always like to use this as gamble because it's so relevant today. Those people out there who are saying that women should be pastors, they go to that text that says in Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek.

There is neither slave nor free. There is neither male nor female. Therefore, we can have women pastors. That text has nothing to do with the topic of who can be ordained, who should be ordained, and who shouldn't be ordained.

That's an off-topic text, and so then they, by that off-topic text, they then put that into the center of the discussion regarding women's ordination, and as a result of it, they are attacking the clear passages of Scripture with a text that has nothing to do with who should be a pastor or not, all right?

So we always stick to the topic, and another example would be kind of that classic one. We talk about baptism. The Lutheran says, well, it says in Scripture, repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit, the promises for you and for your children, and then we go to other passages that say, in baptism, we are buried with Christ, we are raised with Christ.

Baptism is a washing of regeneration. Our sins are washed away. Our hearts are circumcised by the hand of Christ, and of course, as Peter says in 1 Peter 3, baptism now saves you, and the evangelical goes, meh, and they go, baptism now saves?

Haven't you ever heard of the thief on the cross? And they bring the thief on the cross as if somehow that text can then undo what the clear passages say about baptism. Thief on the cross has nothing to do with baptism.

It's not a baptismal text, right? And I would note that the thief on the cross died, died 40 days before Christ instituted baptism for the church. The thief on the cross was one of the last Old Testament saints.

Whether you like it or not, that's the truth because the new covenant, the blood of the new covenant was being established by Christ on the cross himself, and baptism wasn't instituted by Jesus until the day of his ascension.

So the thief on the cross has nothing to do with the topic of what God does or doesn't do in baptism. It's an off-topic text. So same idea here then. The clear passages say that everybody, everywhere is gonna be raised from the dead.

You don't sit there and go to the Daniels.

And say, well, it only says many.

Well, Daniel gets to be interpreted by the clear passage of what Christ said. And since Jesus said all, we recognize that many here is just kind of a figurative way of talking about everybody. The multitude of humanity itself will be raised from the dead, okay?

All right, let's kind of move forward then. All right, here's another interesting thing. Sleep is a common metaphor for death in the scriptures. Let this sink in for a second. Seventh-day Adventists will say,.

Nobody goes to heaven, everybody experiences soul sleep.

No, that is not what the Bible says. It does describe death metaphorically as sleep, but that doesn't mean that when you die, you're not in the presence of Christ, okay? So this is a common metaphor for the death in scriptures.

The dead are, quote, sleeping. It implies that they are in a temporary state and that they shall be awakened when their bodies are raised. That's the point of the metaphor here. So I've had the privilege of doing several funerals here at Kungsvinger, right?

And when we've had those open caskets, all right, our departed ones look like they're sleeping. Do they not? Yeah, they are restfully sleeping there. They're so still, they don't, you know. But they look like they're sleeping.

In fact, we have a big bedroom outside here at Kungsvinger. Yeah, lots of folks sleeping out there, yeah. And I hope they like swimming. But the idea here is that our graveyard, everybody out there is sleeping.

And the whole point of that metaphor is to remind us death is temporary. For us Christians, death doesn't get the last say at all. In fact, in one of our hymns today, we noted that because Christ has conquered death, death now for Christians is the portal into eternal life.

That's right, you heard me say the word portal. And no, I'm not talking about vortexes of spiritual things happening. I'm talking about the actual gateway. Once you die here, you will be with Christ. And what's really fascinating here is this, is that in my time of being a pastor, it'll be nine years in just two months.

Can you believe that?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Thanks, Clevin, thanks, Clevin. I appreciate that.

Oh, yeah, okay.

But in my time here, I've had the opportunity of talking with people as they've gotten closer to death. And there's some just strange stories that I have in that regard, just bizarre stuff. But I recently had a conversation with a woman who, she has diabetes, and they changed her meds.

And in changing her meds, she went from suffering from diabetes to having really, really terminally bad cases of hypoglycemia. And so just a couple weeks ago, she was asleep, and her blood sugars dipped below 40.

And her husband tried to wake her up and couldn't. And she told me that he had to actually take great efforts to resuscitate her because she almost died in her sleep as a result of that. And she said it was the weirdest thing.

While all of that was going on, she says, I was having this weird vision. I was in this room with this beautiful staircase that was ascending, and I was sitting at the base of the stairs just waiting.

And she said it was the most peaceful, calm place that I've ever been. What do you make of it? And I said, I've heard stories like this since being a pastor, and none of us know what to do with it. It's just the strangest thing.

But the idea then is that I assured her that even if she had ascended the stairs on that particular morning, that she would have been with Christ. So, and although we would have had to find a way to bury her, that would have, she'd be sleeping.

Her body would be sleeping while she awaits the resurrection. So, note then that Dr. Steinman then here kind of picks up on these themes from the Old Testament as it relates to what's going on in Daniel 12 here.

Many of those sleeping in the dusty earth will awake, some to everlasting life, some to contempt. That's Daniel 12. Genesis 3 .19, by the sweat of your face, you will eat food until you return to the earth, because out of it you were taken since you are dust, and to dust you shall return.

Isaiah 26 says, your dead will come back to life, your corpses will rise. Awake, note the emphasis on the word awake. Awake and shout joyfully those who lie in the dust, for your dew is a light, is a dew of lights, like plants drenched with the morning dew, and the land will give birth to its dead spirits.

Then the resurrection is described like the earth giving birth to the new humans, right? And they will go out and see the corpses of those who rebelled against me, Isaiah 66, for their worm, the maggots that eat them will not die, their fire that torments them will not go out.

They will be an abhorrence to all flesh. That's the resurrection to damnation that's mentioned there. So after the dead are raised, each person will experience one of two outcomes. Believers, justified by God's grace alone, will be raised to everlasting life, while unbelievers, damned because of their sins, will be raised to contempt, to everlasting abhorrence.

These two eternal states, the first for the faithful and the second for the unfaithful, are emphasized by Jesus in the New Testament. In Matthew 25, we pointed this out last time, at the end of that, it's not really even a parable, it's a thinly-veiled parable of the final judgment.

Jesus says, the king will say to them, "'Truly I say to you, as you did to one of these of these, "'my brothers, you did it to me.'. He talks to those who are damned, says, "'You didn't do it.'. Then he will answer them, saying, "'Truly I say to you, as you did not do it "'to one of these of these, you did not do it to me.'.

And those will go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous into eternal life. Note, the two pairs go together, you can't break them apart. By the way, the belief in conditionalism is incompatible with biblical Christianity, and I would note that that particular view, called conditionalism, is condemned by the Lutheran confessions as a heresy, okay?

So you do not have the option of being a confessional Lutheran and holding to conditionalism, or this idea that God will allow people to just cease to exist after they've been punished for their sins.

The torment of the damned lasts forever, and it's terrifying in its details, okay? Continuing on, all right? So this is a fun little bit here. So when we get to verse 12, Daniel's instructed to close up the words and seal the scroll until the time of the end.

Did you guys notice that in the book of Revelation that there is a scroll that is sealed and that those seals are opened?