September 5, 2017 Show with Dan Phillips on “God Meets ‘Harvey’: One Houston Pastor’s Reflections on the Sovereignty of God Amid what FEMA Calls the Greatest Disaster in Texas History (& Hope From Psalm 29)”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister

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George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this fifth day of September 2017.

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Many of you know that last week we had scheduled originally to have

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Dan Phillips, pastor of Copperfield Bible Church in Houston, Texas, as our guest that day, and unbeknownst to us, a hurricane known as Hurricane Harvey swept through Texas and is known by FEMA as the greatest disaster in Texas history.

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Well, obviously, our guest that day, last Monday, had to postpone his interview because of all the things that were going on.

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He did not even know what kind of dangers or hazards awaited him in the aftermath of the storm.

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There was even a tornado that touched down not far from his home.

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He didn't know what kind of damage he would receive from flooding and so on, so he postponed his interview, and providentially, we are able to interview

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Dan Phillips today. Dan Phillips received his Master of Divinity from Talbot Theological Seminary, and he has taught seminary and college classes in New Testament Studies, Hebrew, and Old Testament Theology.

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He has preached and presented seminars on Proverbs and the

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Sovereignty of God, has written biblical newspaper columns and tracks, has hosted a radio talk show, and has an ongoing conference in pulpit ministry.

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He is most broadly known for his writing on the Pyromaniacs blog with Phil Johnson and Frank Turk, and at his own blog,

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Biblical Christianity, which is b -i -b -c -h -r .blogspot

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.com. He is also, as I said earlier, the pastor of Copperfield Bible Church in Houston, Texas, and today we are going to be discussing

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God Meets Harvey, One Houston Pastor's Reflections on the Sovereignty of God Amid What FEMA Calls the

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Greatest Disaster in Texas History, and we're going to be gleaning hope from Psalm 29 as well.

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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Dan Phillips. Thanks, very glad to be here again,

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Chris. Sorry it's a week late. The circumstances are way beyond my control. Well, that's obvious, and that's what we're going to be talking about.

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It has nothing to do with our control. Exactly. And it was quite understandable that you postponed last week.

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Our folks, I believe you gave on your last interview, our listeners, your testimony of conversion, so we don't need to do that again, but I would like for our listeners who missed your first interview,

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I would like them to be given a description of Copperfield Bible Church in Houston, Texas.

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Copperfield Bible Church is an independent Bible teaching church that actually has been in ministry since 1934.

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So it's been holding out the word in the gospel here in Houston for a good long while.

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In fact, the building, one of the two buildings on the property has stood since the 1930s.

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I thought if everything else was threatened, that'd be a good place to go. So it's not a denominationally affiliated church.

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The last pastor before me was a graduate of Master's Seminary. I'm a graduate of Talbot Theological Seminary, and a holder of the

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Inerrancy of the Word and the Preaching of the Word of God, Gospel of Christ Above All Else. And it's a dear church.

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We lived in Sacramento. Both my wife and I had good jobs, and I had ministry through blogging and preaching and conferences, but this church reached out, and we visited, fell in love with the people, still love it, love the people.

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They're the dearest people, and they've really shown themselves to be heroes, just really wonderful saints in this crisis.

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And I'm not sure what else to tell you briefly. That's okay, but I just thank

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God that you are here to actually have this interview, and that, from what I understand, as far as your own home or your own family physically and the congregation where you pastor, from what

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I understand, there was no serious damage to you personally, but it was quite a tragedy nonetheless.

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Well, that's certainly true. We were very mercifully spared. Living my life in California did not in any way prepare me for Houston weather.

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There are just a number of things that are unique about Houston weather, and one of the things is its ability to do what seemed like sniper weather.

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I mean, literally one of the people in our church said that during a storm it was raining in his backyard and dry in his front yard.

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That's not unusual. Days can just change dramatically. Never in California would

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I start a day off warm and ended up cold or vice versa. Usually it's the reverse, but here you can just have drastic changes.

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So all of that makes it, I'm sure, very difficult to be a meteorologist for this area.

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Just a few weeks before this hurricane, there was some weather disturbance that was heading our way, and we were told to prepare ourselves.

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It was really going to be a big something, and it was nothing. It was just some rains, and there was really no disaster to it.

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So then they start talking about this Harvey forming in the Gulf, and it's a tropical depression.

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Then it's downgraded. Then it's upgraded a little bit. Then they start talking about it gaining strength and gaining strength and gaining strength, and we start to think, okay, maybe this one could really be something, and boy, was it.

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Yeah, it sure was. FEMA wouldn't call it the greatest disaster in Texas history for nothing.

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No, they were saying it might be a one in 500 year flood, and it ended up being, I read somewhere, a one in thousand year flood.

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Wow. By the way, in studio with me is my co -host, the Reverend Buzz Taylor. Hello. Hello. It's good to be with you.

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And it is quite astonishing the details that you gave in a recent sermon where you were discussing this very issue, this very incident.

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God in our hurricanes is, I believe, what you titled the sermon. That's right.

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But you said that this hurricane dumped 27 trillion gallons of water upon Texas and Louisiana, and that that amount of water would fill the

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Houston atrodome 85 ,000 times, would supply New York City with water for more than 50 years, and would put the entire state of Utah knee -deep in water, would cover

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Washington, D .C. with 21 ,079 inches of water, and would cover the entire state of Rhode Island in 931 inches of water.

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That's pretty remarkable. That's right. That's right. Another way

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I saw it was that often disasters are localized. There'll be a flood that'll cover an area, but in this case, it covers something like 70 to 100 miles of flooding, and the pictures just begin to tell the story.

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We helped one of our dear saints, all the folks in our church, just worked to help their house, and the floodwaters came up about hip -high, and in other places, people were forced out of their homes, water even higher, and the water's still there.

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You could see fish in the street in their front yard. Wow. Yeah. That's something.

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Now, that's just a few miles from the church, but a few miles in the other direction in our area, we were spared, although more water than we'd ever seen, but it was engineered to drain very well, but the water started up our driveway one night, and that was new.

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To somebody from Sacramento, California, this is all very new, and yet we were aware that as we were watching that, there were others who were flooded, already were being forced out of their homes or unable to leave their homes, and so many people rose up and showed the image of God by reaching out in kindness and just sacrificial heroism.

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Yes, and not to undermine the seriousness of the number of lives that were lost, there were 66 confirmed deaths, one in Guyana and 65 in the

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United States, but that seems like a relatively small number demonstrating

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God's actual mercy in the midst of this storm, because when we hear about things that are called natural disasters in other parts of the world, you sometimes hear of tens of thousands or more people losing their lives.

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Well, that's right, and there was a potential for much worse. I gather a hurricane in 2001,

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I think. Now, I've been here for just nearly six years, so before my time, they attempted an evacuation, and it just was a disaster.

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People were stuck on the road, and I've heard that 100 people died just in that. Now, in this case, one of the things that happened is just that immediately before even the agencies could fully deploy, just Houstonians were pouring out.

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They were just putting their boats on the water, they were taking their high -water vehicles, and they were just rescuing people.

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They were just pulling people out of their houses and loading them to safety. There are just countless stirring stories of people showing such heroism.

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And then, of course, a lot of our neighbors in Louisiana came out in what they call the Cajun Navy, and other people from other states just coming here to help.

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Yeah, obviously, I'm a native New Yorker, and I vividly remember after 9 -11, all of the people from all over the

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United States and other parts of the world who came to Ground Zero to do all kinds of volunteer work, not only digging through rubble, but also just ministering to people.

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And even on Long Island, New York, not long ago after a hurricane, the Southern Baptist Convention had sent out workers to help people with their storm damage in their homes and remove mold and things, all kinds of charitable and wonderful deeds of mercy.

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Well, as far as this storm is concerned, did you or anyone in your congregation evacuate, or did you need to evacuate?

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What was the circumstance with that? Yes, a number of families in our church were forced out of their homes.

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The people in our church were just ministering just sacrificially all day yesterday with one of our dear folks, and there were some others as well.

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In regard to what you were just saying, before we even hardly had a chance to formulate how we were going to approach this,

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I had people asking me through Twitter and through Facebook how could they help. They were looking for ways to give before we'd even had such an idea put in place.

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We do now, by the way. Would you mind if I mentioned that on our church page, there's a way of donating?

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Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely give us all the information. The church page is CopperfieldBibleChurch .org.

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You just write that out, CopperfieldBibleChurch .org, and you'd see a button on the home page that says

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Storm Relief, and by means of that button you could give, and Storm Donation, pardon me.

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We're going to use that for the folks in our congregation, and then we're going to look to see what other ways we can use to help.

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We've got a crisis pregnancy center that we support that was devastated by it.

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That's another example. They're just in a straight line probably a mile or two from my home. They were devastated.

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We were spared. It's just the most remarkable thing the way it works in Houston, but then our focus is people and their housing, their homes, their lives, several people.

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I think their houses are just going to be total. They're just going to be declared a disaster, and others are going to attempt to rebuild.

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Immediately they start having black mold. I say immediately, but shortly.

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That's quite a health threat. The walls have to come out. The floors have to come up. There's just so much.

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Part of Houston, the water is not going to be gone, they say, for another week or more.

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The water is just standing. People who don't know the area, the way I've seen it explained is it helps if you understand that our elevation is something like 35 feet above sea level, just 35 feet above sea level, and we're flat as a pool table.

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The way that drainage is handled is through levees and bayous, and planned flooding in certain areas, parks, and whatnot.

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If there's a certain amount of water that can handle that, but then beyond that we start having disasters.

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I don't know whether it could have handled a disaster like this. This is an amazing flood of water.

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Yeah. Well, one of the primary reasons, obviously, we wanted you on today is to have the reflections upon this disaster by a pastor such as yourself, who is a firm believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace, someone who knows that God never takes a nap,

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God never goes on vacation, he never loses his attention or focus in such a manner where he forgets what's going on in another area of the universe.

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He's omnipresent and he's omnipotent. Unfortunately, we have both heard over the years, over the decades, when things like this happen.

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And sometimes even the secular media will ask ministers, especially if they are famous ones like Billy Graham or people like that.

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But even more especially, you'll have Christian media asking men in the ministry and prominent

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Christian figures, why did this happen? Where was God when this happened? And sometimes, very often, perhaps even more often than you will receive or hear biblical answers to this.

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You have people, I believe, who are well -meaning, but definitely misinformed biblically, no matter how famous they are or no matter how well -read they are in the

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Bible. I mean, some of these men, you would think, have memorized great portions of the Bible, but they seem to want desperately to defend the character of God.

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So they will say, well, God had nothing to do with this. And you're thinking, especially if you believe in the doctrines of grace, he had nothing to do with this.

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So what was he doing then? What was he doing then when it was happening? They seem to think that that makes God a more kind and loving and compassionate

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God, but how can sitting there with your arms folded, watching these things and doing nothing or turning the other way, how on earth is that a more loving approach than God being actively involved in these things?

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Oh, I think you caught it exactly, and I'm sure that in many of these cases I have no doubt that they have the best of intention.

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And what they do achieve is they do achieve a short -term comfort, because we like to think that somebody's done his best, that even if somebody fails, if he's done everything he can, well, we feel a whole lot better than him.

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I remember hearing a story about a nanny whose child she was caring for was kidnapped.

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Well, she fought like a wildcat, but she wasn't successful because she was just a slip of a girl. But everyone thinks well of her, and rightly so, for doing everything she could, she just failed.

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But she meant to. She did everything she could. And I'm sure that a lot of these people think that they're doing God a favor and giving people emotional comfort by saying, well, you know,

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God's doing all he can, but there's forces of nature that he's set into motion that he's not going to interfere with, or this or that or the other thing.

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And the effect is, yeah, there is a short -term comfort when you think, oh good, well at least he, you know, this wasn't his fault.

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He tried his best. He just can't do everything. But then when you, A, look at Scripture and you,

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B, think that through, well, how do you know he's going to succeed at anything that he's going to do? He says what's going to happen in Christ's return and the kingdom and the judgment and eternity.

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How do you know he's going to be able to pull that off if doing his best through history, still a bunch of disasters slip through his fingers?

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And why are you even going to pray the next time it happens? Well, yes, that's right.

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You're going to pray and ask him to do even, you know, try harder this time. Something like that. And it's interesting that even the secular media and all kinds of secular corporations, when contracts are signed, say it is a corporation who is setting up some major event where thousands of people are expected to attend and people have invested money in this and they will put in the contract that this event will take place barring an act of God or something like that.

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They will call these natural disasters so -called acts of God. Even the secularists do.

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That's right, that's right. But of course it falls far short of the biblical picture of God who is, like Psalm 115 .3

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says, he's in the heavens, everything he wishes he does. Or Romans 11 .36

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says, from him and through him and to him are all things, to him be glory forever.

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He is that glorious being because he is Lord, Creator, and Sovereign over all.

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And there's nothing that happens apart from his will, his design, his decrees.

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I forget who said it, but I love what somebody said once, that the history of the Bible could be characterized as a series of successes cleverly disguised as failures.

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And the greatest of those, of course, is the cross, which is the greatest and most pivotal act of God ever, and yet is the most, from the outside, apart from faith and what we know by God's Word, the most disastrous failure, the most disastrous series of failures in all history.

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In fact, I know that some people are going to be upset with me for saying this, but I don't know how you could reject definite atonement, otherwise known as particular redemption or limited atonement, without coming to the conclusion that the cross was the biggest failure in the history of humanity because of the fact that, according to the non -Calvinist,

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Christ's intention was to save every living soul that ever has lived and ever will live. And even according to them, most of these people will die in their sins and be damned.

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You know, I just glory in the fact that Paul did not say that Christ Jesus came into the world to try to save sinners.

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That's right. That's right. Well, I want to read Psalm 29 right now.

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It's a brief psalm, and it is a psalm that gave you great inspiration in the midst of this and in the aftermath of this, and it's the bedrock of a sermon that you preached recently, uh,

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God and Our Hurricanes, which by the way, people can hear at sermonaudio .com in its entirety.

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You'll probably hear a lot more, uh, biblical content in that sermon, even though it's shorter than a two -hour interview.

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There's so much more going on in an interview that, uh, uh, you will probably hear more about, uh, the word of God's, uh, what the word of God has to say in this matter in, in, in Pastor Dan's sermon, which

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I urge you to listen to after the program. But here's, uh, Psalm of David, uh, 29.

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Ascribe to the Lord, O sons of the mighty. Ascribe to the Lord glory and strength.

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Ascribe to the Lord the glory. Do His name. Worship the Lord in holy array.

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The voice of the Lord is upon the waters. The glory of the God of glory thunders, and I'm hearing thundering outside my window right now in the studio here.

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The Lord is over many waters. The voice of the Lord is powerful. The voice of the

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Lord is majestic. The voice of the Lord breaks the cedars. Yes, the

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Lord breaks in pieces the cedars of Lebanon. He makes Lebanon skip like a calf and Syrian like a young wild ox.

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The voice of the Lord hues out flames of fire. The voice of the Lord shakes the wilderness.

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The Lord shakes the wilderness of Kadesh. The voice of the Lord makes the deer to calve and strips the forest bare.

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And in His temple, everything says glory. The Lord sat as King at the flood.

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Yes, the Lord sits as King forever. The Lord will give strength to His people.

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The Lord will bless His people with peace. Amen and amen.

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And just to emphasize the last two lines of this

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Psalm, the Lord will give strength to His people. The Lord will bless

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His people with peace. Don't you think that one thing sometimes Christians, well -meaning

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Christians often do, and perhaps I do it more than I care to admit or more than I realize, we give these promises to non -believers in attempts to comfort them.

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And I believe that there's an appropriate way to do that. If they repent and come to Christ, they can receive these promises.

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But sometimes we will just attempt to comfort even the non -believer with these things, and even things such as Romans 8 .28,

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that all things work together for the good. And we'll leave out the second part, for those who love

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God are and are the called according to His purpose. These are not just promises that are blanket statements to all of humanity that all men and women and children can grasp onto as promises for themselves, is it?

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No, that's right. The truth is that for somebody who does not love God, all things are going to work together for His eternal condemnation.

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Yes. Well, we have a summary of basically the things that you addressed in your sermon that we can,

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I think, attribute to this psalm. And I think we should go over some of these things during the course of the next 90 minutes of the program.

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There are things that in regard to facing a crisis or tragedy like this, you have said there are things we need to know.

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There are things that we need to have. And there are things we need to do.

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And perhaps we're going to go to our break right now, or perhaps we will go to our break right now,

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I should say. And when we come back, we will begin with some of your things that you believe the

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Bible teaches that we need to know to begin with. And hopefully we'll be able to get through as much of this content in a summary form before the end of the program.

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If anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. You may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable if this is in regard to a personal and private matter.

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Otherwise, please at least give us your first name, city and state and country of residence. Don't go away,

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God willing, we'll be right back with Pastor Dan Phillips and more of our discussion on God Meets Harvey, the sovereignty of God in the midst of the greatest disaster in Texas history.

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that's cvbbs .com let todd and patty know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio welcome back this is chris arnzen if you just tuned in to iron sharpens iron radio our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is dan phillips pastor of copperfield bible church in houston texas he's also a published author and today we are discussing in the wake of hurricane harvey that just recently happened several days ago we're discussing god meets harvey one houston pastor's reflections on the sovereignty of god amid what fema calls the greatest disaster in texas history and hope from psalm 29 if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

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chris arnzen at gmail .com but before we do that we just heard my co -host the reverend buzz taylor uh he was the one that voice in the ad that we heard from cumberland valley bible book service cvbbs .com

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cv for crumblin valley bbs for biblebookservice .com i understand reverend buzz taylor that cvbbs .com

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and i understand that's where you got to go for the details on the sale as well yes okay go to cvbbs .com

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cv for crumblin valley bbs for biblebookservice .com to find out more about the sale but uh pastor dan phillips we do have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered but before we go to them i at least want to uh get as much as we can accomplish uh done uh during the next segment here on what we need to know when we're in the tragedy a crisis whether it is a hurricane an earthquake a tornado a fire a bout with cancer a divorce uh the loss of a loved one whatever the case is that is putting you through a trial a trial that perhaps before it began you never thought in a million years you'd be able to manage living through a trial that many in our audience may be going through trials that are their own hurricanes in their lives and the first thing that you have listed from what you have gleaned from psalm 29 is that there are things we need to know and the first of those things is that god alone is lord if you could explain i'd be happy to yeah psalm 29 was my my best friend personally going through this it was my go -to scripture um i've found just if i can say a personal word that there are many things that you don't really know how sound or what condition they're in until they're tested like you don't really know if your roof has leaks until you get a good rainstorm and then suddenly you find out yep i've got a couple of weeks um you can have an absolutely orthodox profession and you don't know how sound your grasp of it is your personal grasp and your confect in your affections in your heart until you're tested and the advent of this storm the threat to my family um just really put me back to the scripture put me back to looking to this psalm again and again for personal comfort but i also i whipped it into an email that i sent to the congregation and then i also made a sermon out of it and the email and the sermon are really both quite different you can go to scripture from many different angles the first two verses david calls on us ascribe to the lord oh heavenly beings speaking presumably to the angelic court ascribe to the lord glory and strength ascribe to the his name worship the lord in the splendor of holiness now in the psalm he's going to talk about the progress of a magnificent thunderstorm that he himself saw like our own hurricane forming out at sea hitting the land at the north coming down through the south leaving a flood in its wake but he starts off he starts off with the lordship of god and the fact that even beings who greater in power and glory than we must ascribe to him must credit him with glory and strength and of course glory meaning uh just the brilliance of his manifest perfections and excellencies and strength specifically being of course god's ability to do anything that he wishes to do anything that's in accord with his will and his nature so he starts with the lordship of god and is the main thing i think for the whole um the whole psalm in fact we just we have something that reveals our own mindset if there's thunder we say oh it thundered but david doesn't say it thundered in this psalm in this psalm he says the voice of the lord is full of majesty he says the god of glory thunders so he doesn't see thunder as something that's just operating on its own it is something that's a manifestation of god's lordship of over creation so i think probably one of the most central thing now the most central thing that that i have to say about how to approach calamity or really any act of god is everything depends on how we approach it on how we see it we're not computers that just take in data and don't process it don't evaluate it don't make decisions on it we do so the question is how are we going to do it and and i insist that there's really only two fundamental ways of approaching everything and one way starts with me this is the most natural way this is what we all do by default it's our default setting ever since genesis 3 but we want to be as gods we want to decide good and evil for ourselves we want to decide whether the whether the fruit should be eaten or not by by how it looks to us and what we think it's going to do with us we just set god's word aside maybe he's right maybe he's wrong we'll decide whether he's right or whether he's wrong but we evaluated at the starting point of assuming that we're capable of it that we're we're um competent but in fact it's our right to do that so that's one way but a distinctly different way is to start with the lordship of god to start from the perspective that he and not i is completely competent he and not i has the right to evaluate reality and and tell me what's right and what's wrong so i don't put him in the dock to defend himself and give an accounting to me i'm in the dock i'm the defendant i'm the student i'm the learner i'm the servant so everything depends on whether you approach it one way or the other the exact same thing looks totally different from the two perspectives so the psalm starts out there the psalm starts out with a with a um an absolutely emphatic and beautiful memorable insistence on the lordship of god and and calling on us that we need to ascribe these qualities to him because david knows that we won't naturally so we need to be called to do it we need that we need god's word calling us to do it we need god's spirit enabling us to do it yeah and you uh addressed in your sermon the uh unfathomable power of god and this hurricane as record -breaking as it was and as deadly as it was and as horrific as it was this was not an exertion of energy on the part of god that made him break a sweat obviously i'm using anthropomorphism morphisms there but if you want to use another anthropomorphism there would have been more wind just from him batting his eyelashes uh this was this was really nothing in compared to the power of god so if you could explain a little bit more about god and his uh omnipotency oh sure i'd be delighted to um yeah this what does it say in job these are just the fringes of his ways um god's power is unimaginable i i think in terms of what we think in terms of expending power i remember my my dad who was not walking with the lord he's not a believer and he asked me why did i think that there was life on other planets and i said well i really don't know but i don't think so and he said well why would god make all those planets and all those stars if there wasn't life someplace else and i said well you're thinking as if god has limited resources he has to invest them in a certain way or there's not enough payback he might simply do because it delights him why did he make flowers have so many colors why do you have so many shades and fragrances of roses because he loves beauty he is beautiful and he's got limitless resources so i just i imagine as if we were to think of god's expenditure of power measured in in in dials and think of miles and miles of dials all steady all all prepared there and standing there ready to show us how much power god is expending and this hurricane comes and not one needle quivers feeling okay are they defective or something and so you run back to the moment of creation when god spoke everything that exists into existence by his word by a mere exertion of his will and power and you look and still not even a needle quivers because he doesn't extend power he brings it to there he uses it he doesn't extend it i just use the in the sermon the example of the the kind of math that i can do which is uh if i have a hundred dollars and i spend one dollar what do i have left i got 99 but if i have infinite dollars and i spend one dollar what do i have left infinite dollars and so for god to extend his power in a hurricane he's got infinite power and and i just made the point that uh if we think that this this hurricane with all of its raging wild force is totally uncontrollable by us not a thing we could do we could get out and yell at it we could yell at the wind to turn back and the storms to turn back and it wouldn't have the slightest effect on it and yet to god this isn't one of his great mastiffs not one of his great attack gods these were little tame poodles in his in his kennel um compared to looking in the book of revelation and the prophets of the old testament what's going to happen when god comes in a fuller display of his power and of his uh wrath against sin when strong men are going to be trying to hide under rocks and calling for the kittles to fall on them to hide them from his because that that when god comes and really flexes some of his strength is going to make hurricane harvey look like that like a breezy rock in the park and that is all the more reason to pray with confidence when you're going through some kind of a crisis or tragedy is because there is nothing that is too great for god to accomplish if it is according to his will he uh there is no hurricane or flood or tornado or earthquake or fire or whatever catastrophe you can imagine or boiling it down again to the personal there's no bout with cancer there's no divorce there's no death of a loved one there's no any uh personal trial or disaster loss of a job that god cannot rescue you from uh the event may still occur doesn't mean that if we pray as fervently as we can that the lord is promised that that earthquake is going to stop within an instant within an instant of us praying or anything like that or whatever that trial is he will deliver us from being overwhelmed and crippled by these events isn't that true no i'm so glad you brought that up and that's a very important point that we ascribe to the lord glory and strength and realize that such power is his and yet it is it is a person who power these are not just wild forces um operating along some naturalistic lines ultimately the universe is personal because ultimately god the person created the universe and the wonderful thing is that for any person any man woman or child who's repented and trust in the lord jesus christ he can come to this great and glorious person we're speaking of and he can call him father and he has every right to call him father because he's been given that right john 1 12 all he received into them he gave power or authority is the word to become children of god when i was lost in a in a new age type cult i i referred to god as my father but one day it just dawned on me well who said he was my father i just thought he was his father he was my father because that's the way i like to think of god but i had no authority for it was something i made up well there in scripture we see that the person who believes in the lord jesus christ christ adopts him we're adopted onto god through jesus christ we receive the adoption through faith in jesus christ we're adopted into the family of god and made his children so we can come up to that almighty father who who has the power of the hurricane who thunders and we can call him father we can unburden our hearts and we can trust him we can love him know that he loves us and i just used a phrase that i immediately after it came out of my mouth i thought that i'd better further explain i said that god rescues us from being crippled now there are many people who may be physically crippled after a hurricane or a catastrophe like this they may even die but what i meant of course in the context of what i was saying is that we will be rescued for being spiritually crippled and the word of faith movement would immediately rush and jump on something like what i said and and take it to heart to mean that if your faith is strong enough you will not even be physically crippled during something like this that is not at all a promise of god is it no we're not we're not using faith in the sense of a power we use to manipulate god to conform to our will it is by faith we embrace god's will and conform ourselves to his will god is lord this is the whole thing we're talking about saying god is lord is not a clever way of working me back to being lord again and having a way that i can work god to do my will faith is not a power i use to twist god's arm faith is hearing god's word embracing god's word and responding however it calls me to by obedience by rejoicing by fear by repentance but responding to it as the word of god so that's why in in preaching this the next thing i go went on to open about god is that not only is he lord and that is the central truth that he alone is wise he's not an unreasoning force like a blowing wind or a rushing river but he's wise in all he does he's creator and designer of all and what he does he has a reason whether it is his will that we have some sort of disability uh paul you know had a thorn in the flesh and he never specified what that thorn was and i'm that was obviously by design if he wanted to we could have so obviously it's god's intent for us to look to paul's thorn be able to find personal encouragement in it because paul sought god and he sought him again and he sought him again specifically take this from me and he came to see it as a mercy that god did not right he came to see it as as the very grace of christ to keep him from being exalted so that he might find that christ's power is protected as weakness and the reverend buzz taylor my co -host has something to say well yeah i find myself uh talking about this um uh all too often i'm in the situation that job was in where i have to admit that yeah i spoke too soon and i put my hands over my mouth oh yes absolutely absolutely and of course you've never really experienced what job has no no thank god for that uh but um i i thought some of the things were just as bad when it was happening you know yeah i i i cry when the pizza delivery comes late so i mean but uh living in an area like this right now humbles you it really it makes i imagine what you're going through through a whole different looking makes me look at the about my whole different life when i'm looking around me and people just living miles away who are out of their homes who've lost everything we're just throwing or next to everything material they're throwing it all in a pile on the on the street basically a sodden wet smelly pile on the street not even the street in the water on the street because the water's not even gone yet their pictures their their documents they don't even can't even hardly go through them all because they're just wanting to get it out of the house before everything turns into um disease bearing mold and whatnot so i look at that and then i look at my complaints and they're not much they're not much yeah and uh another way uh that we have to remember is it not true that god alone is wise is it has a lot to do with what we were saying before uh in regard to those who rush to attempt to defend god in a very unbiblical way by claiming that he has nothing to do with a certain uh tragedy uh or act was some occurrence that is bringing about calamity and um god in his wisdom he knows what is best and even if we on this side of heaven will never understand that or know what his purpose was i mean very often he does reveal his purposes to us later on when we go through a trial but he doesn't always this side of heaven reveal these things we have to keep that in mind no matter how horrified or dismayed or distressed we are in the midst of something we have to always remember that he alone is wise as as much as we may look upon our fellow man and there are geniuses that are among us there are brilliant people among us inventors and scientists and all kinds of folks that uh make us uh just really uh be taken aback in awe uh at their their brilliance but but only one is omniscient only one is wise as god is wise and he knows what he is doing when things like this occur oh you're absolutely right i sometimes encourage people to think of everything that they know in terms of like a dot think of a dot of information so you have your little collection of dots of information but how many angles do you even see those dots from do you do you know them through every angle at any one of them just take one out are you sure you're seeing that absolutely correctly are you sure that there isn't a fact say on the far side of the moon that would contradict the way you're thinking about that well no there's no way that you can know that so really we don't and then we think of all of the information that's available the vast array of dots of information and we don't have the smallest tiniest fraction in our hands and we don't even fully understand what we have but on the other hand god possesses all the dots of information he can see them from every conceivable angle and not only that he's the creator of them he designed them he knows them inside and out because they were his idea in the first place in fact we got to go to a break right now if you could pick up right where you're left off there i would appreciate it connecting those dots and uh if anybody would like to join us on the air we do have several people waiting to have their questions asked and answers and we will get to as many of you as possible before the end of the program but if you'd like to get online and have a question waiting for our guest send us email to chris arnzen at gmail .com

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chris arnzen at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com

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don't go away we will be right back with dan phillips and god meets harvey one houston pastors reflections on the sovereignty of god amid what fema calls the greatest disaster in texas history right after these messages from our sponsors so don't go away tired of bop store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship and how about the preaching perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from long island well there's good news wedding river baptist church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of god's word and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us

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that's chef exclusive .com welcome back this is chris arnson if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with less than an hour to go is dan phillips pastor of copperfield bible church in houston texas and we are discussing god meets harvey one houston pastor's reflections on the sovereignty of god amid what fema calls the greatest disaster in texas history and we're also gleaning hope from psalm 29 if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

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or call area code 631 -806 -0614 that's 631 -806 -0614 and then the very next day on sunday october 1st dr tomi costa from toronto baptist seminary will also be speaking at hope reform baptist church of medford long island he will be speaking at their sunday morning worship service at 11 a .m

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cvbbs .com but please try to support all of our advertisers whenever you can and however you can because that also will give them even more reasons to continue sponsoring iron sharpens iron radio well now we are back to our discussion uh with our guest pastor dan phillips of copperfield bible church in houston texas and we are discussing as i said god meets harvey one houston pastor's reflections on the sovereignty of god amid what fema calls the greatest disaster in texas history and hope from psalm 29 and before the break uh pastor dan we were connecting some dots in regard to the wisdom of god that only god is wise yeah and thank you i was just making the point of comparing wisdom with wisdom and as god doesn't joke um job wants to argue with god as if they were equal and god says fine we'll do that just as soon as you present your resume and tell me how you created everything and how you sustain everything and how you understand everything about all of creation the truth is that we don't understand everything about anything including ourselves whereas god understands everything about everything because he created everything he designed everything so the thought of challenging god the thought of saying to god that he did the he did the wrong thing and something wrong even as a hurricane like this that this was the wrong call or we just do not even have god's facts on the table let alone know how to sit them correctly let alone know the right thing to do in every situation so even as children we learn to trust our parents when our parents are doing something we don't quite understand we know that they understand and if we can do that with our parents we do make mistakes and don't know everything how much more can we do with god who never makes mistakes and does not only know everything but understand everything and the next uh thing that we need to know is that god alone is good and it reminded me of a sermon that my my very first pastor as a born -again believer mike gadosh who i just mentioned before of solid grand christian books he preached a sermon that was under the title god is good always good and only good to his people amen and if you could explain if you could explain that because your average person uh who has a very diminished understanding of either good or evil they will say well yeah i know that god is really really good but come on he's not the only one who's good my mother is is really wonderful and i know a lot of people who are good in fact i'm pretty good myself i've never uh murdered anybody or stolen any from anybody i've never committed adultery and i pay my taxes and i work hard nine to five and i'm i think i'm a pretty good guy well explain what you mean by that god alone is good well it's all in the in the standard comparison isn't it i mean you you might think that a snowball is pretty white until you hold it next to a white sheet of paper or some new phone showing snow and you realize well there's really a lot of imperfections in that and uh and in terms of our goodness well it's compared to what compared to adolf hitler i guess maybe you know i guess maybe but the comparison isn't one of our fellow sinners the comparison is god and god is i mean isaiah 6 is of course the most vivid presentation of that where you've got seraphim who are themselves sinless they have not sinned they are themselves without moral imperfection and yet in the presence of god's glory they cover their faces and they cover their feet and they can't stop saying holy holy holy is the lord of hosts they are overwhelmed with the holiness of god so that the sign of distance from god is thinking he'd be pretty good the sign of being close to god is you don't think much of your own goodness you think a whole lot of his and the connection that i see that in the psalm is just in in the in his goodness towards his people is that even though the psalm itself is only 11 verses long it uses the name yahweh 18 times yahweh is god's personal president name it's the name he used in committing himself to abraham isaac and jacob and committing himself to the nation of israel saying that you will be my people and i will be your god and promising to be their god was not a mere promise that he would he'd stay in the heavens you know it was a promise that he would provide for them as they walked he would protect them he would bless them he'd work his his will of goodness for them so every time david uses the name yahweh it's a flashback to god's name on that covenant god's signature promising himself to the believers in israel and we likewise today have a relationship with god by covenant as jesus said at the last supper that uh that the the wine represented his blood which is the blood of the new covenant and that new covenant establishes a relationship in which god is our god we're his people he writes his laws on our hearts he remembers our sins no more and he commits himself to be like your pastor said good always good and only good to us in fact it's it's not possible for god to be other than good to his people because it would be unjust for him to be other than good to us because on what basis would he be other than good either jesus has made full atonement for all of our sins or we're still lost and if he has made full atonement for all of our sins then god's not angry with us god god's wrath is not on us there's no condemnation for those who are in christ there's only a father's love that he does discipline us and he does conform us to the image of christ i know there are times limited so just i'll peek ahead in the point i make in the sermon to the fact that god's greatest vision of what's good for us is not necessarily that we're always clean and well fed and healthy and uh materially um well his vision of what is for our greatest good is likeness to christ and everything god does in the lives of his children is towards that end it's towards the end of conforming us to christ's image and you think well what but what made christ and that that brings me to that verse that that of all the verses in the bible that make me uh drop my jaw this is probably the key one hebrews 5 8 son though he was he learned obedience through what he suffered jesus christ learned obedience through what he suffered how am i going to learn it any other way how am i going to learn it any other way and so spurgeon said god had one son without sin but not a single child without the rod and these these rough providences these hard things that come into our lives have a kind purpose and we see that purpose as we look at them through the word of god like we said at the outset starting with the lordship of god taking the word of god and saying okay i'm going to look at what's happening to me through the light of scripture and not through the light of my unneeded reason uh the the the biggest example of that of course is is the cross imagine looking at the crucifixion as a natural man or imagine looking at the crucifixion just through human reason and you try to make sense of it and and all you see there is just the worst catastrophe ever you see three guys naked bloody dying horribly shamefully and if you're told that one in the middle is different from the other two because he was a truly good man he was a truly god loving man he spent his life doing good for people and and in purity of devotion to god and you just say then all the more all the more this is the worst thing that's ever happened this this makes no sense this is a this is a a series of failures all in one place and if you want to tell me that god loves this person in the middle i can't believe it i'd have to say if god hates anyone it's that guy in the middle right the guy with the crown of thorns the guy who just cried out my god my god why have you forsaken me there's no love there there's no good purpose there it's an absolute catastrophe and yet if we look at it that way even though it makes all the sense in the world to our natural unaided reason we would miss absolutely everything about what was going on because what was actually going on was the writing of all that's wrong with the world that that indeed the one most beloved by god uh god's only son who he loved was giving himself as a ransom for many he was he was bearing god's wrath for our sin and making full atonement for our sin and in so doing winning the crown of the universe by which he will put all things to right but it was done through the weakness of god as paul says it was done through him who knew no sin being made in an ardent hour to the naked eye of unbelief a catastrophe to thy eye of faith still heartbreaking and crushing and yet the most glorious thing we've got ever done now you may have even heard this already in the midst uh or in the aftermath of this storm uh but the thing that christians often hear that sometimes even stops us in our tracks and get us tongue -tied is when someone says well it's easy for you to say i mean you are not one of the families you are not among the families that lost loved ones uh in the aftermath of hurricane hank or harvey i'm sorry you you were not uh you didn't lose your home or your church you didn't lose loved ones you did not become blind or deaf or disabled or you weren't physically scarred by this uh you know who are you to talk uh it's easy for you to say how do you respond to the it's easy for you to say remark especially when it comes from someone that may have lost precious loved ones or have may have experienced overwhelming uh disfigurement physically or some kind of uh loss traumatic dramatic loss that that that you and i were spared from well that that's a that's a tremendous question i'm glad that you asked it um i've actually had a pretty rough summer in terms of some personal issues that have come my way health issues and whatnot and yet still i would never compare with anybody else i would never i don't ever approach a situation trying to say yeah look at what you're suffering well look let me tell you my story about how i suffered you see the whole thing about christian faith is that what i have to say and to give somebody is not something that is bubbling up from inside of me what i have to say and give somebody is the word of god i have a much better hope than if i were to say okay now here's what i figured out that gives me comfort instead what i have to say is here's the truth of god that he's given you and me alike that would be just as true if i was never born or if i were an unbeliever it's so much more precious and so much better than that and it doesn't depend on my experience now i can also say that i have also tested that and i've also tasted the goodness of it i've tasted the the comfort of it and i and i've known the need to do it but i when i'm trying to to to give help and encouragement to somebody who's suffering something i i just i express unconditional um sympathy and compassion for what they're suffering and i don't make any pretenses of um trying to compare hurts or scars but i just try to go to the same place that i i have to go to to myself that every christian has to go to but we've always had to go through through the whole history of the christian church which is the word of god um so he comforts us in in our affliction that we might comfort others what does it say with the comfort we receive from god and that comfort centers around the person of christ the cross of christ the word of god does that make sense you see what i'm saying there yes so i don't have something to say or do i i can talk to you because i've suffered that same thing well i haven't suffered many of the same things that other people have i've suffered my things which they may not have suffered but that's not the issue the issue isn't what comfort have i come up with the issue is what comfort has god given us on the authority of his word and and we're meant to embrace that ourselves and know the truth of it and the sweetness of it ourselves and we're meant to share it with others with humility and compassion earnestness and absolute conviction of its truth we have a question from joe in slovenia who says dear brother chris thanks for having pastor phillips address the obvious questions that many will ask about harvey is this hurricane an act of god's judgment if so how so and in what sense if not why not and in what sense are natural disasters quote quote simply the result of the fall and the fact that we live in a fallen world generally affected by sin and what types of purposes and intents might god have in allowing or intentionally bringing such devastation in the lives of those who are living through it many thousands in southeast texas will be wrestling with these and similar questions please address them for their sake thank you so much for the comfort counsel and pastoral care of your ministry in these trying times well let me start with the first of the series of questions that joe and slovenia asked is this we're going to answer every one of them right well we'll get to as many as we can is the hurricane an act of god's judgment well um so let me say that i speak to that at more length than i'm going to be able to now in the context of that sermon and those are great questions uh joe so let me give you the best answer i can in the time we've got but if you're able to you could go to copperfieldbiblechurch .org

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and that will take you to sermon audio where the sermon is uh god in our hurricanes but so let me let me answer that uh by saying first of all of course everything everything that happens is by the sovereign decree of god things don't get passed and they aren't just mad he's not a deist god he doesn't just start creation going and then go off and watch tv or something so it's time to come set up a kingdom um he is lord and sovereign over all and these are all acts of god they're all results of his decrees now what what i would say is that i can't tell individuals why individual things happen to them why was our house spared but other wonderful people in our church were not other other wonderful christians in our church were were put out of their homes or or shut in their homes for several days surrounded by water and having to think about whether they'd have to go up into their attic that was just uh that was terrifying to read and to pray and to care for these folks and think about how to get help to them um so but why why is one selected and one isn't one of the most important points that i would make is is this i cannot tell anybody exactly why each individual thing happens to them that's way over my pay grade i'm not a prophet i don't read god's mind he doesn't whisper sweet somethings in my ear apart from scripture ever and he doesn't in anybody else's ear either but what i do know from scripture with absolute certainty is i know why god does everything he does for believers and i know why he does everything he does for unbelievers and i can say it to this extent that for those who are believers who are affected by this everything god brings into our life is toward that goal of conforming us to christ's image whether it is by leading us to appreciate afresh his sweetness whether it is by leading us to to be challenged to come to the end of ourselves and simply trust him by his naked word and by his character whether it comes from humbling ourselves and saying i can't make any sense out of this but i do know that god is lord i know that he's wise i know that he's good and i know that he works all things together for good he can't do otherwise because he's satisfied his justice and cause so everything god does in the life of a christian he does it to inform us to christ's image whether it's sparing our house in a hurricane or whether it's letting our house be struck in a hurricane uh so that others might show us their care and their love and concern as as wonderful folks in our church are rising to do my fellow elder jacob jones just is amazing he's just the greatest guy he was just immediately out with his truck trying to help people but now to come to the flip side of that to talk to something you brought up earlier chris uh those who don't know the lord that what these these things that happen like this everything good that happens to somebody who's outside of christ is a demonstration of god's long -suffering and his kindness and romans 2 4 tells us that these acts of long -suffering and kindness are meant to lead them to repentance meant to lead them to repent of their sin trust in christ have their sins forgiven and know eternal life and redemption in christ but at the same time the hard things that happen when they find and they're reminded that they don't really finally control anything when they're reminded that that things can slip out of their grasp just like that that they can suddenly as in the case of this hurricane find themselves exposed to forces before which they are absolutely completely helpless these are just tiny snapshots of what the last judgment is and they are meant to remind them that they are coming to a day when all of their excuses and all of their dodges and all of their distractions are going to be blown away as before a hurricane force wind they will find themselves naked in defenses before god and if they have not trusted in jesus christ they will know his wrath and his judgments so i asked the congregation in the sermon would you rather be shot or would you rather get a warning shot and to a man they all preferred the warning shot yeah and that's what these things are when an unbeliever has these things happen in their lives these things are the book of joel is kind of like this first he talks about a locust attack that is like an army and then he talks about an army that was like a locust attack and in other words the attack of the locust was meant to make them think of the coming of the day of god coming of the judgment of god and so i'd say that that a hurricane like this that it should it does remind the unbeliever that the day is going to come when all of us all of his dodges all of his excuses all of his distractions are just going to be blown away in fact we have to nothing but him thank god the judge we have to go to our final break right now and we'll pick up where you left off because i want you reminded me immediately of uh luke 13 versus one through five and then we can perhaps pick up on that when we return uh if anybody wants to join us to if you want to get online with a question do it now because we're rapidly running out of time our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

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chrisarnson at gmail .com and give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the good old usa don't go away god willing we will be right back after these messages from linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call in brook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

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that's linbrookbaptist .org every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus we are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959 we have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call long island youth for christ at 631 -385 -8333 that's 631 -385 -8333 or visit liyfc .org

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that's liyfc .org hi i'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's study every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

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is having and go to cvbbs .com for more details on that sale and we are now back with our guest dan phillips for the last 25 minutes of our program about god amidst the most horrific or the greatest disaster in texas history according to fema and we are talking about the sovereign god in the midst of these things it has also been called the theodicy defense of the goodness of god in the midst of pain suffering and evil in the world and when usually a disaster of this kind comes about even if it's a so -called natural disaster evil often rises up when people loot and rob and murder and all kinds of things people become very often the worst they can be and others rise up to the occasion by god's mercy and come to the aid and rescue of other fellow humans in all kinds of heroic ways but before the break i wanted to bring up luke 13 1 through 5 where we read now there were now there were some present at the time who told jesus about the galileans whose blood pilot had mixed with their sacrifices jesus answered do you think that these galileans were worse sinners than all the other galileans because they suffered this way i tell you no but unless you repent you too will all perish or those 18 who died when the tower of in siloam fell on them do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in jerusalem i tell you no but unless you repent you too will all perish this sounds a lot like what you were saying earlier a warning shot rather than being shot well yeah that's that's a perfect uh a perfect turn thank you chris so here in luke 13 there's that tragedy and jesus response to it is not so much to say well there's don't attach any significance to this at all but you're attaching the wrong significance to this but you should see in that a warning that judgment is going to fall and it's going to fall on you and you're not right with god you repent or one day your own judgment's going to come on you rather than sitting around speculating about you know in the abstract about about why this happened to this person think about what is going to happen to you and whether or not you're right with god but there's another similar one in luke nine i'm sorry john nine where the um disciples see this man born blind and and they they see a theological conundrum and they they want to have a theological talk about it and jesus won't have any part of it they say rabbi who sinned this man or his parents he was born blind and jesus responds by dismissing the question he said it wasn't that this man sinned or his parents but that the works of god might be displayed in him we must work the works of him who sent me while it is day night is coming when no one can work and then he heals this man so there's the two sides of it so unbelievers looking at a disaster like this the message is so take from this that one day a disaster is going to fall to fall on you if we're still talking about it then obviously hurricane harvey did not take your life so you got a warning shot but one day it won't be a warning shot one day god is going to come for you and you don't know when that day is any more than the people who were struck by that is a that is a disorienting feeling we went to bed night after night under extreme tornado warnings i'm a california boy i don't know anything about that but here we get the phones going off the tv is constantly reminding us and in fact we see a funnel cloud out our window and it struck down not even a mile down the street from us and lifted the pops off the buildings fences all around i mean that that's a that is an alarming uh and you you realize it could hit our house we don't know we don't control it we can't predict it and one day that moment is going to come for everybody who's outside of christ and he will find that he is not prepared and he will regret every wasted opportunity and this is another one on the other hand to believers like john 9 he says to the disciples this is an opportunity for god's glory to be shown so i i just i'm so humbled and grateful for the dear folks in in our church my wife the deacons so many people in our church they just rose up and they've given up their time they've opened their houses they they've gone and spent hours open their their their wallets their cupboards and they're reaching out and many people have reached out to us who follow me on twitter and facebook and have emailed me and said how can we help what can we do with them it see that that's that's the right way not to sit and just speculate as if it were simply a theological conundrum but to get the message that well here is an opportunity for me to work the works of god glorify god and if i'm not a saved person myself thank god for one more opportunity repent and and call on christ to be my savior and lord cry out to him or if i'm a believer to to if i if i need help then let my church know so that they can be blessed by serving me and if i can give help then get out there and find a way to do it find a way to organize give deliver serve whatever it is you see you see jesus to use a word that also has a bad use but jesus approached a lot more existentially he wasn't interested in just having a a lounge faculty lounge tea room debate about things happen to people you know his his response was yeah you need to repent or yeah you need to get to work serving god and joe says our natural disaster is simply the result of the fall and the fact that we live in a fallen world generally affected by sin uh well uh i i would think that you would believe that that is a part of it but the question almost implies a nearly a deist understanding of things that god is just like watching a world that he wound up like a clock and now it's just taking course according to the curse uh the four according to the fall of adam and he's just kind of sitting there watching the natural intrinsic uh things that would naturally occur because of the curse and he's not really personally involved them yeah i i'm sure joe doesn't mean to be doing that but it's it's a very difficult thing to wrestle with and this three six the prophet says is a trumpet blown in a city and the people are not afraid the disaster come to a city unless the lord has done it um god is sovereign over all things but that's not to say that everything is an individual one judgment of god some of it well all of it is of course ultimately the result of sin and and yet like i say through the same situations god works in mercy in some and in judgment in others and uh it just really i don't think it's obviously i can't come up with a one -for -one explanation about why each individual event comes i can just say that if you're a believer it's it comes to draw you closer to christ and give you opportunities to serve and if you're not and that is a reminder of your need to be reconciled to god right and uh the last question joe has what is what types of purposes and intents might god have in allowing or intentionally bringing such devastation in the lives of those who are living through it well you've already mentioned one way is that to warn people of the wrath to come but what else might you add to that well it the two that for unbelievers it's a warning of the wrath to come and for believers it is to us personally a reminder to an opportunity to draw closer to christ to cling to the word of god more consciously you know paul says i for christ's sake i've suffered the loss of all things and he says i know i know both how to be abased and how to abound uh and he's capable for all things because christ gives him the ability to be capable but christ makes him capable so it it leads us to draw closer to christ and cling to him but also to stir ourselves and help those who need help in these situations like first john 3 uh if you have the goods that your brother lacks don't just say god bless you i'll pray for you but give him should show him the love of god by meeting that need and so it's an opportunity to swing into action as god's people and as we're seeing so many doing across the land in our church and in many many churches as well thank you joe and slovenia keep listening to iron sharp and zion radio and keep spreading the word about the program in slovenia and beyond we have rj in white plains new york who wants to know isn't it true that many of we who are christians sometimes take an approach that is unbiblical where we claim to have even if unconsciously the mind of god and knowing why he has brought disaster to a particular place we might say that is because there is such a large population of homosexuals there or this sin or that sin isn't that dangerous and after all aren't christians often severely injured and affected by these events that are allegedly because of the homosexuals in the area i mean that is a true true statement sometimes people will make these these predictions or actually out outright declarations that that's why god did something in a certain place and yet you might have a pastor say excuse me um my church was wiped out and we're honoring god right exactly um another really good question um my answer would be to quote that bible verse that says stick to what you know well of course that's not about but stick to what you know don't go beyond what is written um so i i don't need to try to guess god's mind i to know what he thinks about homosexuality to know what he thinks or what he what he thinks about um human righteousness and self -righteousness and uh moral sinners i mean hell is going to be full of straights who are lost straights not just homosexuals or you're going to it's going to be full of eagle scouts and marines it's going to be full of all sorts of moral and upright people who were god haters and not reconciled to god through christ even though being a marine is a wonderful thing eagle scout is a wonderful thing but but see if i stick with scripture i don't try to read god's mind here let me let me just come back and say something else that's a great question and i'm remembering something you said earlier i wanted to comment and on and and didn't and that is that one of our greatest besetting sins as believers is that we just are always wanting to improve on god's word isn't that right we're always wanting to improve on god's word we're always wanting to do something just a little better than what's in scripture and i don't need to interpret providence to preach the gospel i don't need to tell somebody why he's got toe fungus or doesn't or why why he got into a reptile nail fungus why he got into a wreck or didn't or why the storm struck his house i don't need to to be able to do that in order to say to him that he and i have the same problem that we were born sinners that we're sinners by nature and choice that we have no hope in ourselves that god's standard is perfect righteousness and if we can't present him with that we're lost forever and we deserve it and that the only way we can know perfect righteousness is through repentance and faith in the lord jesus christ that jesus christ is our righteousness to know the imputed righteousness of christ through faith alone by grace alone see i i and that's the word of god that's the gospel i don't need to have something better than that amen can i get me can i get an amen yeah you just got one uh well you also in your your uh the gleanings that you took from not only this experience but from psalm 29 uh you have come to uh things that we need to have and that is god's word and god's son if you could explain and we will have to take an abbreviated form of your explanation because we only have about 10 minutes left amen i'd be happy to do my best so we need to have god's word and we need to have his son so in in psalm 29 you see this expression the voice of the lord seven times and he is hearing the voice of the lord in in thunder and he's saying that that makes him think of god's voice that's god's thundering and what is thunder it's it's huge it's it's loud it's unmistakable it's powerful and overwhelming well of course that expression the voice of the lord is used over and over again in scripture of god's word you go to deuteronomy 4 and elsewhere and you find that the people were hearing the voice of the lord at mount sinai in scripture we have the voice of the lord and david i think is making the point uh poetically that scripture is powerful and overwhelming because it is god's voice just like thunder and and that gives us the wisdom and the heart and the mind of god that we should never we we can't interpret the heart of god by our interpretation of providence because for one thing nature is broken by sin and for another and even more fundamental thing we're broken by sin we wouldn't interpret it correctly i mean did did having a good meal mean that god loves me did having a bad meal mean that he doesn't like me well no then we're back in paganism trying to read chicken livers and and the shapes of clouds and whatnot and that is not christian faith to know god's heart and mind we've got to go to scripture that's the only way to know god's heart and mind and my chief example would be the cross once again if you try to understand the cross by natural reason unaided you will never understand one thing about it but if we look at in the light of the word of god we will begin to see the wonder of what god did there so to make sense of our lives to make sense of why we're here and why we're still alive only scripture can tell us that to know god's love and his will for our lives only scripture can tell us that we need the word of god and then as far as needing god's son verse 10 says the lord sits enthroned over the flood the lord sits enthroned as king forever i think taking it from the flood that followed this storm that david was reflecting on but he uses a word for flood that is only used elsewhere of noah's flood and so seeing the flood after this storm reminds him of that great judgment and so like i said these things that happen are meant to make us remember god's judgment past and his judgment future and who sits enthroned well who sits enthroned now i think of psalm 110 that the lord said yahweh said to my lord sit at my right hand till i make your enemies eat who's sitting at right god's right hand right now jesus christ he sits at god's right hand waiting for the day when the father tells him to come and to reign and so um he's king of kings he's lord of lords if we want to know god know him personally if we want our sins forgiven if we want to be reconciled to god on god's terms then we need to have jesus christ as our lord and and you have said uh in your your excellent sermon that uh what we what we need to do is number one don't ask why me and also don't ask why not me right right and then that kind of goes back to those same things we're talking about luke 13 and john 9 it's it's futile to ask why specifically i was spared or specifically i was stricken um if i'm a believer then god does everything he does to conform me to christ's image if i'm not a believer he does everything he does to give me an opportunity and a reason to repent and as as far as why him then again it's futile to ask why god treats other people remember he says to simon peter when when peter didn't like what he said about how he's going to die he looks at john and he says okay what about him and jesus says oh if i want him to stay till i return what's that to you you follow me and that's what he says to us as well it's futile to ask why god does what he does to other people we need to follow him and ask him to know that he calls us to in his word so as to what now then that's the final question what now that's what we should be asking and i say if we don't know god in christ then take the message be thankful for the warning shot repent and believe in jesus christ the savior and if we do know him then rejoice in god's goodness his eternal goodness paul looked at all of the sorrows in his life which is worth anything that most of us would ever know right beating stoning shipwreck treachery uh being thrown or chased out of towns and imprisoned and he looked at all that and he said that all of these things work for me an eternal way to glory beyond all comparison but the only way i know that is i don't look at what's seen i look at what's unseen clinging to the promises of god and the hope that we have in scripture and the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of jesus christ that's the way to have hope amidst all of the hardships that providence brings our way to me i think we have time for one more question bb in cumberland county pennsylvania says you said that it's futile to ask why me but couldn't that be a valuable question to ask so that someone could weed out the sin that is in their lives for instance if a person is stricken from some kind of a venereal disease that would draw them to the conclusion i need to be sexually pure or if they are in financial calamity it might be because they're doing something dishonest in their business life etc do you follow what the listener is asking yeah i do we were talking about in the context of things like a hurricane in the flood and why one house falls and why one house doesn't but yes of course god has god works in romans 13 he works through the civil authorities and there are certain things that come into our lives as a direct result of our sin i'm not i wasn't really talking about something like that that's a fair enough that's a fair enough point now there are some people who fall into some of those same things without having committed this particular sin but the central thing i would say is that i'm always going to come to my conclusion by scripture i see what i'm trying to to avoid is i'm trying to avoid the kind of superstitious mindset that some christians get into that whenever anything goes wrong they start saying what's god trying to tell me well dear brother dear sister everything god is trying to tell you is in scripture everything is in scripture so if i'm driving too fast and i get a ticket there's no point asking what's god trying to tell me it's only in romans 13 he told me in romans 13 to respect the authorities and the obedience of them and then if i if i am sexually immoral and i get a disease there's no point asking what is god trying to tell me it's in scripture plea fornication does that make sense you see what i'm saying yes and because we are all in some level i mean it's manifested in greater ways in some people's lives than others but i think that we all by are by nature before our rebirth especially uh we are gossips and slanderers and um don't you think we have to be very careful to avoid guesswork when it comes to why someone else is going through a calamity like well that happened because i'm certain there must be some kind of unconfessed sin in that family's life look what's going on over there oh absolutely oh yes amen a hundred times read the book of joe the the best thing that they did was sit down to joe sit down next to joe and weep with him they made their biggest mistake when they opened their mouths and then their reasoning clearly was if you were doing what was right this wouldn't have happened to you so let's find out what you did wrong to deserve this and when god came he said no you're all wrong so yeah we don't want to be joe's comforters to people and come helpfully tell them why they deserve hurt like they're hurt we our our role is to come and love and serve and if if there's something that scripture says something about okay let's talk about scripture but let's not try to play prophet that's a horrible mistake well before we run out of time i want to make sure that i give our listeners the contact information for you and copperfield bible church uh the website for copperfield bible church is copperfieldbiblechurch .org

01:57:45

copperfieldbiblechurch .org that's easy enough to remember that's copperfield bible church in houston texas that is and the blog that you write for biblical christianity that uh website is bibchr .blogspot

01:58:03

.com that's b -i -b -c -h -r .blogspot .com do you have any other contact information that you care to give well i'd like to say that i've got a couple of books out one is called the world's hoping gospel yes and it is basically the setting the gospel in the context of all of scripture and the other is called god's wisdom and proverbs it's an introduction to how to read understand preach and teach proverbs uh you can get those both at amazon or at westminster theological seminary bookstore or christian books and you can also go to cvbbs .com

01:58:38

that's cv for carmel and valley bbs for biblebookservice .com and if they don't have them in stock they will order them for you oh well yes please go to them and ask for them that would be great that'd be great yes and if anybody wants to hear the interviews on both of those books that we already conducted with dan you can go to ironsharpensironradio .com