Matt and Andrew exhort Christians to make a difference in the world

This is Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the Christian Podcast Community.

All right, this is Apologetics Live. We are live here with me. I'm Andrew Rappaport from Striving for Eternity, and we have Matt Slick, our resident apologist here and he is with CARM .org, C-A-R-M.

That stands for Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. Go to CARM .org, get basically almost anything dealing with apologetics is out there. Before we get started, too far in, I have a personal note that I just want to give here.

We had in our church a family who woke up at one in the morning to their house completely engulfed in flames. They basically lost everything. I know that many who are associated with Striving for Eternity, in the past when we had our dear brother, Joe Conkle, he had lost everything.

And basically, here's another family that had the same thing. Just before Christmas, losing everything that they had. I'm going to put a link in YouTube for those watching live, I'm going to put a link in the show notes for those that listen on podcast.

If you can help this couple out, Annie, who is the wife, is just very discouraged over this, a lot of, been dealing with a lot of tragedy in their lives. And this has just been kind of devastating, losing everything this way.

So if there's any way that you guys could give an outpouring of help and encouragement to them, it would be appreciated. And as brothers and sisters in Christ, I mean, this is what we do. We take care of our own.

We look to help one another out. And I know that folks did that in a big way for Joe Conkle. Also, I would say this has motivated me in my podcast, The Wrap Report, to deal with preparing for tragedy.

So the daily, I've been dealing with it in the two minute dailies all week. And this Sunday, I will actually have Joe Conkle, who went through this four years ago, he'll be on so that we could discuss with him what has gone on, how he dealt with it.

Joe had a great attitude about it. He was sharing the gospel with every onlooker. Here's his house on fire, Matt. And then Joe was sharing the gospel. Reporters are coming. And the reporter actually posted that they couldn't believe this guy.

Here he is, his house is on fire. They're putting it out. And he's in his pajamas like the Sunday before Christmas four years ago. And he's just looking to share the gospel with people. He was happy because he was sharing the gospel.

It was just a great attitude. I wish that I could have such an attitude if something like that was happening to me.

Well, you know, I can come out to your place and arrange a few things if you want.

You had your chance. I even gave you a chance to buy me dinner two weeks ago. I mean, granted, I wanted you to buy it not just for me, but for the 120 people that came to my daughter's wedding. But yeah, it was a good wedding, I'm sure.

Yeah, it was. It was good. We really enjoyed it. Have I? I've been back since the wedding. Right. Yeah, I think so. I can't even remember. Yeah. I don't know. Mentally. I've never been here. No, that's for sure.

So this is going to be an open hangout for folks who want to join. You can go to apologeticslive .com. We put the link there. If you're watching on that page, refresh in the link. We always have to put the link live just before we go live, just the way that the Google Hangouts work.

But hopefully, Matt, in a few weeks, we'll be on a completely different platform. It'll be a set link, same link every week. We won't have to do that. I finally got a new computer. And I know, Matt, it is your favorite.

It is a Mac. I know you love them. Macs are okay. There's a reason you and I, I know why you don't like Macs. It's the same reason I kind of like PCs. You're a computer tech in your past. Yeah. What do you like about your computer that you can't do with a Mac?

I can fix it. You can rip it apart, put new hard disks in.

Yeah. Yeah. What happened here, you know, I had this system here for a few years and a week or so ago, the hard, the data drive, I have a C drive for the main when you put your program on and a D drive for the data, and the D drive crashed.

And it happens, you know, my machines are on all the time. I don't turn them off. And it crashed. So hey, okay, I just put a new drive in and I said, hey, you know what I'm gonna do? I'll take another drive I've got.

I might as well rebuild the system. So I rebuilt the entire system, put a new video card in, put a, someone sent me and put in a different drive back up and running on a Mac. Oh no, you got to go take it down to the shop and then you got to wait and then they got to fix it.

And they charge you $8 million, you know, just the basics.

Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what I did. And yeah. Hey, you know what, Matt, we have back in Apologetics Live Facebook group, we have another woman Bishop. This actually looks like the same woman who is prophetess that was upset.

You know, she was, people were sharing her videos where she was claiming to be a prophetess and she's again, trying to encourage people with as she being a Bishop, you have any issues you think with that?

Women in Church Leadership Roles

Yeah. Bishop must be the husband of one wife, a man of one woman. That's what the requirement is for Episcopal Bishop. So, oops, she can't do it. She's wrong. Next.

Yeah. Well, Second, or First. Timothy 2, 12 and following speaks about whether women can be in a teaching role over men in the church and whether or not they can be pastors.

What does that say? Bishop Sandra Russ, huh? Wow. Look at that. Restoration, ministry, souls, after careful consideration, pondering on what day would be best. I will be live tomorrow, which is Thursday, from the beginning of Sandra Russ Ministries.

See, I don't even like Matt Slick live for radio show. I don't like my name as, hey, Matt Slick. You know, I always had a problem with that, but I understand you got to market your name, but you know.

Geesh. All right. So let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do this. The overseer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Let's get to the pastoral epistles. Here we go. So it's a trustworthy, this is First Timothy 3.

The man aspires to the office of overseer. That's the word episkopos, which is what we get the word bishop from. It's a fine work he desires to do. An overseer must then be above reproach the husband of one wife.

And literally it's aner mias gunaikas. And so what that means is a man of one woman. Okay. So if she were on the show, I'd say here right now, I'd say, so how are you a man of one woman? And to me, you know, maybe my Asperger's comes in to come to the rescue at things like times like this.

I just say, we're done. That's what it says. You're wrong. And people think, you know, you're at, you're arrogant. No, you can't be that because the Bible says, no, it says you must be a man. Well, you know, that's what it says.

I don't understand why people have to argue with it. It's what it says. So let's move along, you know, next. She should not be calling herself a bishop, which demonstrates that she does not understand what she is doing.

Yep. And I really think that this is where we see the first kind of downfall in the church. You know, we started with women preaching and people were, well, come on, a woman can teach too. They have, they have things that they know, and we've seen this slow and sometimes not so slow, uh, downfall to where now we're now saying, can, can homosexuals be pastors?

And can, I don't know if Matt, I don't know if you even saw this. Can dispensationalists be pastors? It's really going bad. Well, that's where you'll be a dispensationalist in heaven. It's okay. That's never going to happen.

I believe the Bible. Have you seen the video of this guy that's trying to argue that Jesus is polyamorous? I heard about that. What a moron. I did a rap report podcast on that. And I mean the hermeneutics horrible, um, really, really bad.

His whole argumentation, he uses one verse out of context, of course, but what's the.

Verse where John laid his head on his shoulder? No, no. His verse, his argument is this.

The Fallacy of Equivocation in Theological Argumentation

Many people claim they have a personal relationship with Jesus. Ephesians five is the only verse he went to. And he said, here, you see that the church, that Jesus is married to the church. Therefore, Jesus was polyamorous.

He has many personal relationships and he's married to the church.

Then I would go to him and say, define polyamorous.

Many loves is how he defined it.

Well, then I'm polyamorous too, because I have three cats I love.

Yeah. I mean, so let's deal with this. You're immediately going to sign that people who watch you do see you do all time. So let's help people understand why you do what you do.

You immediately went to a definition. Why definitions are necessary? Because without definitions, you're going to talk past each other. A lot of people will say things that are really dumb. But, you know, what we're going to do is say, well, what's your definition of something?

And then you can get into the issue of whether it's smart or not or what. So, you know, if a guy like that's going to come on here to the show, let's say, and he were to say, well, you know, I'm going to teach that Jesus is polyamorous.

Well, what do you mean by polyamorous? Well, define it in such a loose way, a loving relationship with many people. Well, then that means moms, anybody is, unless you just happen to be isolated on an island.

So the definition is so loose that it really doesn't qualify for anything. It doesn't do anything any good. So what he's trying to do is there's a word, you know, I don't do not know the logic fallacy is of it, but it's the word here.

He's being technical in one area and transferring it to this meaning.

It's the fallacy of equivocation.

Yeah, yeah, but there's more to it. But yeah, equivocation is certainly that he's not being clear. But yeah, I think it's probably the closest one.

But he uses the word relationship two different ways. I mean, polyamorous sexual relations. And that's not what anyone is claiming. They have a sexual relation, right?

So he's just been lame.

Yeah. I mean, and how many how many. When we see that passage in Ephesians where Christ is married to the church, how many churches is he married to? One. So it's not polyamorous, is it?

Well, it is one church, one bride. But, you know, there's many, many people, you know, I could say what this guy is saying, but it's just another way to just assist the devil in spreading deception. So it is.

I thought you could be quiet, hon. Oh, we should bring her on. Much better than you. I do this because she goes, hey, I'll be quiet. She's over there with papers. So now I just made a run for the camera on her.

Well, you know, you and I like to get ourselves in trouble. I should get myself in trouble. She's my bride is in the other room and it is her birthday. I'm pretty bad. Oh, good. How old is she? Thirty two.

She is twenty five. Oh, OK. I was thinking of that. OK, I'm not saying how many anniversaries of twenty five. I mean, we do have a. Twenty, you know, three year old son, so and my daughter just got married.

All right, so I'm going to I'm going to bring a cat in. She was in here. And folks, again, if you want to if you want to join, you can. I put the link in YouTube, but in the comments you want to join.

Just go to Apologetics Live and just go to. Yeah, see, she she came in. She said, I enjoy hanging out here. Ladies need representation. I guess she feels that there's too many guys on the show.

Oh, I was going to say, well, then there you are, Andrew. But it was it was not even good enough. If I have to explain it and resay it, it kind of works. But it was it was pretty bad. Yeah, it was bad, but at least we can insult each other.

Yeah, that's right.

So so, Kat, I don't know if you do have any questions, but you can you can unmute if you do. And, you know, and folks, if there's anyone who wants to come in, go to Apologetics Live dot com. The link to join is there.

And I don't know, Matt, I think you've scared everybody off. I'm a scary person, aren't I?

Aren't I, hon? She's nodding her head. Maybe we should turn the camera on her and she can wave.

Bad idea right now. I think I think if you did that, I would like to see it because, you know, we've been we've been praying for your wife's health.

And it's always good to see when she's repeating what Andrew's saying. You say people have been praying for your health, hon.

OK, go ahead. And that it would be good to see her smack you to know that.

Well, it'd be good to see for people to see you smack me to know how good you're doing. You can come over and hit me upside the head if you want. Yeah, we'll just see her arm. That'd be enough. Yeah. All you can do is see the arm.

OK, Nick. She's going to want to do that. Wow. She knows you'll turn the camera. She would jump at the opportunity to whack me upside the head.

Yeah. Yeah. Cat should come to your wife's defense here and and as as the female representation.

Yeah, I'm trying to get her on the radio. But you do tough on child rearing. She's actually really good in the radio, too. She has a great radio voice also.

Yeah, but she also has a better face for TV.

Oh, yeah. She's very photogenic. And this is what I have. I'm stuck with this. I mean, why did she marry me? Well, I know why she married me, because I ruined her. That's what she said.

Ruin. She she married you for rewards in heaven.

And I ruined her. No, no, no. She's actually said it was ruining. She got ruined because we went out and I was so obnoxious and irritating and slightly humorous, all mixed in that confused the bejeebers out of her.

And whenever she would go out to anybody else, they were polite and normal. They were boring. And she said that one day she's out with a really good looking guy, lots of money and everything. And and she's like, oh, no, he's boring.

And I'm thinking of Matt, you know, and what would Matt be doing instead of taking her to a nice restaurant with flowers in a Porsche or something like that? I'd be like, can I pick up in my Rambler car's got no air conditioning and we can go down to the beach and walk on it there.

Then we can scrape chains together and get a chocolate shake and throw things at seagulls. That's what she would like to do instead of the other stuff. So that's how you win women.

Well, Kat Kat is an agreement. She thinks that your wife should come over and smack you.

But she people are wanting you to come over and smack me upside the head, honey. So, you know, look, you can see the camera, you can see how close just your arm. You can see it's right here. The camera's only right here.

I'm not going to do any sweat. Look, this is this is how the border right here. This is the border right here. She's coming. I'm not going to I'm not going to. She won't trust me if I turn the camera.

So I'm not going to trust the camera. I'm not going to turn anything. OK, she's got her pink robe on here. Do you see my hand is right here at the border?

Oh, that wasn't a hard smack. It wasn't hard enough.

It's not very hard, but she's smiling and totally smiling. You would do it again from the backside that says, yes, go wifey. Yeah. So the back, you know, backside of the head. Oh, not with that thing.

She's got a big weapon in her hand now. Where are you going with something I said?

So so you actually you actually wrote a book about dating.

How to woo and win women by being obnoxious jerk. And I'm an expert at it. The obnoxious jerk part. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Women have to see. I know how it works. Women do not know what to do when a man has the secret down.

And I have the secret formula. It's easy. The secret is that you can be just a little bit obnoxious and irritating and a little bit of a jerk all mixed in. While you activate the mother instinct gene and you work with the bewilder filter that women have, then it's over.

Just a matter of time before they say yes, when you propose. I know I'm sure they have no they have no it doesn't work. They can say they don't like it. They can say they resist it, but it's just not true.

I'm I'm liking cat. She's she really should unmute and say what she's been saying in chat. She said that that Nick should go grab a frying pan. I don't think she should just grab me for I mean, it should be a cast iron.

Friday, she's not strong enough because of her hand issue. She's not strong enough to to hit me inside the head with a frying pan. Mm hmm. Look, you know, so the book book has titles like regarding the women.

What cat was saying, son?

What were you saying? Oh, no, it was not important. Go for it. It's a love tap. Whack right upside the back of your head.

She oh yeah, she likes she's hit me all the time on the arm and the shoulder. Once I go, that's it. That's all you got. She hits me again harder and she hurt herself.

So, yeah, she's awesome. I like her.

She's a good woman, but she is going through a lot of pain and suffering right now. And so that's what it is.

Definitely in our prayers, though, for sure. She needs it.

All right. So I got something to talk about, something that's been on my mind a lot lately. And what I have done already today is since the past half hour has gone to. Is Roman Catholicism true on Facebook?

And let me refresh it. I put up a post saying, hey, we're going to be here right now. If anybody wants to come in and talk.

Challenges to Roman Catholic Apologists

And so let me just say, because you and I talked about this beforehand, you had several people, Roman Catholics challenging you accusing you of dodging debates, of running away from Roman Catholics. We have made it very clear.

This platform is set up for questions where tonight's an open question, any topic. But this is also set up for debates. We've made it clear to them every Thursday night they could come in. We'll set up a formal debate and we can have it.

I haven't been contacted by any of them. Have you?

No, I don't think they're going to ever because, you know, the only ones who are going to halfway consider such a challenge would be those who know some scripture and know how to twist scripture. And, you know, some people have been emailing me saying, hey, you need to arrange debates with the top Catholic apologists.

I'm like, brother, you're not arranging anything except trying to move to another state here pretty soon. But, you know, if some Catholic wants to debate me, it's fine. We can do a formal arrangement and things like that.

We can get to a church and have a narrowed topic and actually do it. You know, I don't have any problem with that. But it would have to be based on God's word, not on their so-called sacred tradition or their vacuous eisegetical methodologies for making the Bible say what they wanted to say.

But I've learned a lot in the past few years. I've been discussed with a lot of them and I'd be more than willing to have a serious, filmed, moderated debate. Soteriology would be good. Mary, oh, I'd love to do Mariolatry.

Oh man, would I like to talk about Mary? But no one, what Catholic would want to debate Mary? Because out of the Bible, they can't do that. Unless they want to, what I would do if they did, let's just say hypothetically that a Catholic, Roman Catholic priest or apologist just wanted to actually debate me formally, you know, in a setting, in a church, whatever it is.

And we could film it the whole bit. I would show up with a directional microphone and recording device and I would aim it at my opponent. And then we'd be having debates, you know, maybe sometime you might say, well, what's that for?

Well, you know, I want to pick up the ripping sounds when you quote scriptures and ripping out of context. I want to see if anybody else can hear that. So, you know, because they're not going to, they're not going to really take the word of God for what it actually says.

They're going to drive truckloads of heresy through their, their false doctrines. That's what they're going to do. Hey, look at this. Maybe, oh, people are responding. Oh, check this out. So I did a little something since we've been talking on is Roman Catholicism true?

I typed in 25 minutes ago, hey, doing a live talk on Google Hangouts, if you want to talk about the Catholic faith and I put the link right there. And then I wrote eight minutes ago, Catholics, anyone want to come in and talk?

Then another one. And then two minutes ago, Catholics, anyone? So nobody. And then what I did was I wrote just a test that I wrote. Roman Catholicism is false. And then the responses are coming in. Yeah.

So you look, oh, well, someone said, amen. And then one said, sure is. Okay. So that's an agreement. So anyway. Okay. Maybe the Roman Catholics aren't going to want to debate here anymore. I think they're getting their, their, their theological rears handed back to them.

You were about to start with something that you've been thinking about. So let's, let's go through that. Now we have Andrew came in. I don't know if he's going to talk about it, but he's going to talk about it.

I know he was here before, but I can't remember. I think he was the, I think he's from Australia, if I remember correctly, but I can't remember his background. So I'll just have him say something and yeah, then we'll know.

Well, why don't you, why don't you start with what you were going to say about Roman Catholicism and then we'll break. Oh, it's bad.

Looking for my water. I had water. I forgot my water. Darn it. Let's see what Hayes got to say. Cause what I want to say is something else. Not really.

Well, I can try that. Let's see. I just added him into broadcast. Let's see if I can unmute his mic here. There we go. There you go. You needed to be added into the broadcast. Yeah, that's okay.

I just thought I'd turn up and see what happened. I was delaying, actually enjoying a watermelon, a rock melon, I should say, and getting a coffee. So sorting out life before I sit down.

Good. Good. So you guys need something?

I'm here to learn in as much. Don't have any questions off the top of my head.

Are you a Christian or what? I forgot. Yes, I am. Yes.

I came in two weeks ago. Okay. I would have come in last week, but it was Thanksgiving for you guys. We don't have Thanksgiving. So kind of simply clears that one up.

You guys aren't thankful for anything, huh? Say that again? You guys aren't thankful for anything, huh? Oh, we're thankful.

We just don't have it as a holiday. Do you have a 4th of July?

Nope. Yeah, sure you do. It goes right through to the 3rd.

We have a 4th of July. We do, but we have, what is your 4th of July? It's 26th of January. I'll just tell you that. All right. We'll get that off. That being the day that Australia was settled.

Oh, really? I didn't know that. Okay. How old is Australia?

200 years. Somewhere around there. Federation was 1901.

Okay. So your ancestors were all criminals. Is that it? You're from Batsheed?

You betcha. Scottish and English?

Yeah, mine were lawyers, my ancestors from Germany, apparently. So they were criminals too? Probably. Yeah. Any relation to Martin Luther? Not that I'm aware of. That was my last name, Slick, which came from the German Schlichtin.

So I don't know, but I go back to Germany sometimes.

I wanted to ask you about this. You're talking about your last name. Who was the first Slick? I know Schlichtin was the last name, but when did it change to Slick?

It was your dad. Yeah, because he had a brother, older brother, and my uncle, and his name was Schlichtin. But Schlichtin is too hard to say for a lot of people. They say, hey, Slick. It just became a nickname.

So literally, my dad's older brother was Schlichtin. And then when my dad was born, the doctor said, what's the last name? She goes, Slick. And that's how we got it.

That's kind of convenient. So basically, you and your brothers are the only Slicks.

Well, there are other Slicks in the country. In fact, get this. I was coming out of a gym in Southern California one day, and I went by this exit, and there were these offices. And I saw a name tag on the office, and it was a girl's last name, Slick.

Wow. So I knock on her door, and she opened it. And she happened to be absolutely gorgeous. And I think that played a bit of how our dialogue went. She was just a bombshell. And so I thought she thought that I might have been coming on to her, but I wasn't.

I said, look, I can see she's distant. She'd always had guys coming on to her all the time. And I said, look, what's your last name? It's Slick. And I said, my name is Slick. And I said, that's very unusual.

And she said, really? And I said, yeah, mine came from Schlichtin. And she said, so did mine. And I said, really? She goes, but we can't be related because my uncle or my grandfather, blah, blah, blah, was in Indiana.

I thought, was it Iowa or Indiana? And that's where he came from. I said, oh, OK, well, mine is Southern California. I said, OK, I'll see you. Bye. That's the way I ever talked to her. I went home and told my mom and dad about it like a week or two later.

And they said, oh, no, no, no, no. We were in Indiana first and then came to Southern California.

Oh, wow. So you may have been related to them. May have been related to her. Yeah. What's that? Well, that was someone on a phone. Let me, I can add him in.

Yeah, but she had blonde hair. And my brother, I have two brothers and one of them, blonde hair, blue eyed. So it makes sense that probably we're related, you know, like third cousins removed or something like that.

But whatever. So I brought Edison in. I'm going to get some water while I'm talking to you, but keep talking. I can hear you. You have some questions. Sure.

We've got some noise. Yes, sir. Hi. He's got a little child in the. Yeah, my, my baby is very nice.

See, I remember if America, you're from Philippines, correct? Uh, yes, sir. I'm from the Philippines.

You have a question for Matt tonight. And yeah, I'm by the way, I'm from Cebu Philippines and, um, it's always nice to, um, I'm always happy for you guys, your ministry, especially math. I always watch his, um, live Facebook.

Oh, good. We don't have a, uh, we don't have a one 800 number here, so I can't call in. Uh, but I just watch and it's very nice to see you all busy every day. You always engage with public people discussing about theological issues.

I do have a question though. Um, I have two questions with regards to a verse in first Peter, second Peter chapter two, verse one.

Okay. I can't, um, I can tell you that I won't be able to concentrate with, um, lots of high pitch sounds behind me because I have a hearing problem and I don't process that very well. I'm sorry, but I won't be able to for very long.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sorry. But yeah, I have a question with regards. I'm serious. I got cake. Okay. Hold on.

I'm going to have to do. All right. So one of the things folks may not realize that they take him off here. Um, oh, I, uh, the, the thing with Matt's hearing is, uh, high pitch noises do well. So, uh, Edison, if, if, if you can keep the kids like out, um, or if not, we could type the question in.

I know you were reading off the phone, so I'll bring you back up volume. Yeah. He's already on the other room. Okay. All right. So, uh, can you hear me clearly now? Yeah. So, so ask, ask your question, then, then mute your phone in that way, uh, that then might help with it.

You can still hear him.

Yeah. All right. Uh, my question is on second Peter chapter two, verse one. Second Peter chapter. Yeah, I know about it. Yeah. Um, it's with regards to actually two issues that are brought up in this issue question, uh, that would be the perseverance of the saints and the limited atonement, you know, because it says here, um, there are false teachers that denies the Lord who bought them.

Addressing Second Peter 2:1 and Perseverance of the Saints

So my question is that, um, what the Lord bought, including false teachers and what about if you are genuinely being bought or included with a particular redemption, um, is it possible to become a false teacher?

Because as I've understood correctly in the light of the perseverance of the saints, those who are genuinely being bought or the elect that are already saved, um, they will persevere if they are genuine.

So I'd like to hear your comment about that verse in the second Peter chapter two. Thank you.

Um, mute you so that I can focus. Sorry. I do have a hearing problem and, uh, I can't process, I have autism and I can't process too many sounds at once, particularly when you're high, uh, but false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be also false prophets among you who will secretly introduce destructive heresies.

Uh, so false prophets arose among the people. What people is he talking about? So if you read the context, uh, we had the prophetic word made sure. And, uh, but no, uh, this, uh, no prophecies of scriptures of one's own private interpretation, et cetera.

Move people moved by the Holy spirit, but false prophets rose among them. So what he's probably talking about is the issue of the old Testament. And because it talks about the issue of the Holy mountain in verse 18 and, uh, Holy mountain has allusions to the old Testament, some other stuff, but nevertheless, if you were to look at a first Peter and second Peter, what you'll see is that Peter was addressing the 12 tribes of Israel, that's first Peter one, one, and, uh, also in a second Peter, uh, one, one, also in both epistles, Peter for the old Testament, many times, uh, I don't even know how many times, but over and over and over and over, I mean, first Peter, I have a list here, uh, versus, uh, chapter one versus 22, 23, 24, 25, chapter two versus six, seven, eight, nine, uh, two 24, three chapter verses eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, and it goes on.

And so there's lots of verses of the old Testament references. So it looks in my opinion, what I think is going on here is that what he's doing is referencing the same kind of being bought as was spoken of in the old Testament and Deuteronomy 32, six.

Do you thus repay the Lord? Oh, foolish and unwise people. Is not he our father who has bought you? He has made you and establish you. So Moses was talking there and he's addressing the rebellious Israelites who are turning away from God.

Is he not the father who's bought you? And, and they were purchased out of Egypt and yet there are people who are still buying, still rejecting him. So I think what's going on is that because of so many old Testament illusions, the phraseology, rejecting the Lord who bought you.

I think it would have been understood that what he's referring to was this idea of the Israelites coming out of Egypt, being freed, being purchased, and yet they're rejecting God. It doesn't mean that everybody was saved because they were bought in a different sense of being saved than being redeemed and in that sense.