Matt and Andrew exhort Christians to make a difference in the world

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This is Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the

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Christian Podcast Community. All right, this is

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Apologetics Live. We are live here with me. I'm Andrew Rappaport from Striving for Eternity, and we have

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Matt Slick, our resident apologist here, and he is with CARM .org,

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C -A -R -M, that stands for Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. Go to CARM .org,

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get basically almost anything dealing with apologetics is out there. Before we get started, too far in,

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I have a personal note that I just want to give here. We had in our church a family who woke up at one in the morning to their house completely engulfed in flames.

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They basically lost everything. I know that many who are associated with Striving for Eternity, in the past, when we had our dear brother,

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Joe Conkle, he had lost everything, and basically, here's another family that had the same thing just before Christmas, losing everything that they had.

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I'm going to put a link in YouTube for those watching live, and I'm going to put a link in the show notes for those that listen on podcast.

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If you can help this couple out, Annie, who is the wife, has been just very discouraged over this, been dealing with a lot of tragedy in their lives, and this has just been kind of devastating, losing everything this way.

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If there's any way that you guys could give an outpouring of help and encouragement to them, it would be appreciated.

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As brothers and sisters in Christ, I mean, this is what we do. We take care of our own. We look to help one another out, and I know that folks did that in a big way for Joe Conkle.

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Also, I would say this has motivated me in my podcast, The Rap Report, to deal with preparing for tragedy.

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I've been dealing with it in the two -minute dailies all week, and this Sunday, I will actually have

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Joe Conkle, who went through this four years ago. He'll be on so that we could discuss with him what has gone on, how he dealt with it.

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Joe had a great attitude about it. He was sharing the gospel with every onlooker. Here's his house on fire, Matt, and then

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Joe was sharing the gospel. Reporters are coming, and the reporter actually posted that they couldn't believe this guy.

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Here he is. His house is on fire. They're putting it out, and he's in his pajamas the

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Sunday before Christmas four years ago, and he's just looking to share the gospel with people. He was happy because he was sharing the gospel.

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Just a great attitude. I wish that I could have such an attitude if something like that was happening to me.

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Well, you know, I can come out to your place and arrange a few things if you want. Hey, you had your chance.

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I even gave you a chance to buy me dinner two weeks ago. I mean, granted,

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I wanted you to buy it not just for me, but for the 120 people that came to my daughter's wedding.

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Yeah, it was a good wedding, I'm sure. Yeah, it was. It was good. We really enjoyed it. I've been back since the wedding, right?

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Yeah, I think so. I can't even remember. Mentally, or? Yeah. I don't know.

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Mentally, I've never been here. No, that's for sure. So this is going to be an open hangout for folks who want to join.

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You can go to apologeticslive .com. We put the link there. If you're watching on that page, refresh in the link.

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We always have to put the link live just before we go live, just the way that the Google Hangouts work.

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But hopefully, Matt, in a few weeks, we'll be on a completely different platform. It'll be a set link, same link every week.

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We won't have to do that. I finally got a new computer. And I know, Matt, it is your favorite.

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It is a Mac. I know you love them. Macs are okay. There's a reason you and I...

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I know why you don't like Macs. It's the same reason I kind of like PCs. You're a computer tech in your past.

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Yeah. What do you like about your computer that you can't do with a Mac? I can fix it. You can rip it apart, put new hard disks in.

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Yeah. Yeah. What happened here, I had this system here for a few years, a week or so ago.

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The hard... The data drive, I have a C drive for the main when you put your program on and a D drive for the data. And the

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D drive crashed. And it happens. My machines are on all the time.

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I don't turn them off. And it crashed. So, hey, okay.

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I just put a new drive in and I said, hey, you know what I'm gonna do? I'll take another drive I've got. I might as well rebuild the system.

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So I rebuilt the entire system, put a new video card in, put a... Someone sent me and put in a different drive, back up and running on a

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Mac. Oh no, you gotta go take it down to the shop and then you gotta wait and then they gotta fix it.

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They charge you $8 million. You know, just the basics. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what

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I did. Yeah. I just did it myself. You know what, Matt? We have back in Apologetics Live Facebook group, we have another woman bishop.

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This actually looks like the same woman who is prophetess that was upset.

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You know, she was, people were sharing her videos where she was claiming to be a prophetess and she's again trying to encourage people with as she being a bishop.

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Do you have any issues you think with that? Yeah. Bishop must be the husband of one wife, a man of one woman.

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That's what the requirement is for a bishop. So, oops, she can't do it.

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She's wrong. Next. Yeah. Well, 1

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Timothy 2, 12 and following speaks about whether women can be in a teaching role over men in the church and whether or not they can be pastors.

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What does that say? Bishop Sandra Russ, huh? Wow. Look at that.

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Restoration, ministry, souls, after careful consideration, pondering on what day would be best.

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I will be live tomorrow, which is Thursday, the beginning of Sandra Russ Ministries. See, I don't even like Matt Slick live for a radio show.

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I don't like my name as, hey, Matt Slick. You know, I always had a problem with that, but I understand you got to market your name, but you know.

07:04

Geesh. All right. So let's, let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do this. Let's discuss the overseer. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's get to the pastoral epistles. Here we go. So it's a trustworthy, this is 1

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Timothy 3. The man aspires to the office of overseer, that's the word episkopos, which is what we get the word bishop from.

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It's a fine work he desires to do. An overseer must, and be above reproach, the husband of one wife.

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And literally, it's aner mias gunaikas. And so what that means is a man of one woman.

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Okay, so if she were on the show, I'd say here right now, I'd say, so how are you a man of one woman?

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And to me, you know, maybe my Asperger's comes in, comes to the rescue at times like this. I just say, we're done, that's what it says, you're wrong.

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And people think, you know, you're arrogant. No, you can't be that because the Bible says no.

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It says you must be a man. Well, you know, but that's what it says. I don't understand why people have to argue with it.

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It's what it says. Let's move along, you know, next. She should not be calling herself a bishop, which demonstrates that she does not understand what she is doing.

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Yep, and I really think that this is where we see the first kind of downfall in the church.

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You know, we started with women preaching and people were, well, come on, a woman can teach too.

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They have things that they know. And we've seen this slow and sometimes not so slow downfall to where now, you know, we're now saying, can homosexuals be pastors?

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And can, I don't know if you, Matt, I don't know if you even saw this video. Can dispensationalists be pastors?

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It's really going bad. Well, that's where you'll be a dispensationalist in heaven, it's okay. That's never gonna happen. I believe the

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Bible. Have you seen the video of this guy that's trying to argue that Jesus is polyamorous?

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I heard about that. What a moron. I did a rap report podcast on that.

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And I mean, the hermeneutics, horrible, really, really bad.

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His whole argumentation, he uses one verse, out of context, of course. But -

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What's the verse where John laid his head on his - No, no, his argument is this. Many people claim they have a personal relationship with Jesus.

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Ephesians 5 is the only verse he went to. And he said, here, you see that the church, that Jesus is married to the church.

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Therefore, Jesus was polyamorous. He has many personal relationships and he's married to the church.

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Then I would go to him and say, define polyamorous. Many loves is how he defined it.

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Well, then I'm polyamorous too, because I have three cats I love. Yeah, I mean, now -

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And a computer. So let's deal with this. You're immediately going to assign that people who watch you do, see you do all time.

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So let's, it helps people understand why you do what you do. You immediately went to a definition, why?

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Definitions are necessary because without definitions, you're gonna talk past each other. A lot of people will say things that are really dumb, but you know, what we're gonna do is say, well, what's your definition of something?

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And then you can get into the issue of whether it's smart or not or what. So, you know, if a guy like that's gonna come on here to the show, let's say, and he were to say, well, you know,

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I'm gonna teach that Jesus is polyamorous. Well, what do you mean by polyamorous? Well, define it in such a loose way, a loving relationship with many people.

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Well, then that means moms, anybody is, unless you just happen to be isolated on an island.

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So the definition is so loose that it really doesn't qualify for anything. It doesn't do anything any good. So what he's trying to do is, there's a word, you know,

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I do not know what the logic fallacy is of it, but the word here, he's being technical in one area and transferring it to this meaning and then saying.

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It's the fallacy of equivocation. Yeah, yeah, but there's more to it.

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But yeah, equivocation is certainly that. He's not being clear, but yeah, I think it's probably the closest one.

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Well, he uses the word relationship two different ways. I mean, polyamorous sexual relations, and that's not what anyone is claiming.

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They have a sexual relation. Right, so he's just being lame. Yeah, I mean, and how many, when we see that passage in Ephesians where Christ is married to the church, how many churches is he married to?

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One. So it's not polyamorous, is it? Well, it's one church, one bride, but oh no, it's many, many people.

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You know, I could have said what this guy is saying, but it's just another way to just assist the devil in spurting deception.

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That's all it is. I thought you were gonna be quiet, hon. Oh, we should bring her on.

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I'm much better looking than you anyway. When I do this, you know, Niko, she goes, hey, I'll be quiet, and she's over there with papers. So now

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I just made her run, turn the camera on her. Well, you know, you and I like to get ourselves in trouble.

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I should get myself in trouble. She's, my bride is in the other room and it is her birthday. I'm gonna be bad.

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Oh, good. How old is she? 32? She is 25. Oh, okay. I was thinking about that, okay.

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I'm not saying how many anniversaries of 25. I mean, we do have a 20, you know, three -year -old son, so.

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And my daughter just got married. All right, so I'm gonna bring

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Kat in. She was in here. And folks, again, if you want to join,

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I put the link in YouTube, but in the comments, you want to join, just go to Apologetics Live.

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Just go to Apologetics Live. Yeah, see, she came in, she said, I enjoy hanging out here.

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Ladies need representation. I guess she feels that there's too many guys on this show. Oh, I was gonna say, well, then there you are,

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Andrew. But it was not even good enough. If I have to explain it and re -say it, then it kind of works, but it was pretty bad.

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Yeah, it was bad. But at least we can insult each other. Yeah, so Kat, I don't know if you do have any questions, but you can unmute if you do.

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And folks, if there's anyone who wants to come in, go to ApologeticsLive .com. The link to join is there.

13:43

I don't know, Matt, I think you've scared everybody off. I'm a scary person, aren't I, hon?

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She's nodding her head. Maybe we should turn the camera on her and she can wave. Bad idea right now.

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I think if you did that, I would like to see it because we've been praying for your wife's health, and it's always good to see when she's -

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I'm repeating what Andrew's saying. You're saying people have been praying for your health, hon. Okay, go ahead. And that it would be good to see her smack you to know that you're doing well.

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It'd be good for people to see you smack me to know how good you're doing.

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You can come over and hit me upside the head if you want. Yeah, we'll just see her arm. That'd be enough.

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Yeah, all you gotta do is see the arm, okay, Nick? She didn't even want to do that. Wow. She knows you'll turn the camera.

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She would jump at the opportunity to whack me upside the head. Yeah. Now Kat should come to your wife's defense here and as the female representation.

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I'm trying to get her on the radio, but I'm gonna do it off on child rearing. She's actually really good on the radio, too.

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She has a great radio voice, also. Yeah, but she also has a better face for TV.

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Oh, yeah, she's very photogenic, and this is what I have. I'm stuck with this. I mean, why did she marry me?

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Well, I know why she married me, because I ruined her. That's what she said. Ruined, she married you for rewards in heaven, and she -

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No, I ruined her. No, no, no. She actually said it was ruining. She got ruined because we went out, and it was so obnoxious and irritating and slightly humorous, all mixed in that it confused the bejeebers out of her.

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And whenever she would go out with anybody else, they were polite and normal. They were boring. And she said that one day, she's out with a really good -looking guy, lots of money and everything, and she's like, oh, no, he's boring, and I'm thinking of Matt, you know?

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And what would Matt be doing instead of taking her to a nice restaurant with flowers in a Porsche or something like that?

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I'd be like, can I pick you up in my Rambler car? It's got no air conditioning, and we can go down to the beach and walk on it there.

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Then we can scrape chains together and get a chocolate shake and throw things at seagulls. That's what she would like to do instead of the other stuff.

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So that's how you win women. Throwing things at seagulls. Cat is in agreement. She thinks that your wife should come over and smack you.

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Okay, people are wanting you to come over and smack me upside the head, honey. Look, you can see the camera.

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You can see how close, just your arm. You can see, it's right here. The camera's only right here.

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I'm not gonna do any switch. Look, this is the border right here. This is the border right here. She's coming.

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I'm not gonna, she won't trust me if I turn the camera. So I'm not gonna trust the camera. I'm not gonna turn anything. Okay, she's got her pink robe on.

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See, my hand is right here at the border. Ow! That wasn't a hard smack.

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It wasn't hard enough. It's not very hard, but she's smiling. She is totally smiling.

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You wanna do it again, hon, from the backside? Cat says, yes, go wifey. Yeah, upside the back, you know, backside of the head.

16:51

Oh, not with that thing. She's got a big weapon in her hand now. Where are you going? Was it something

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I said? So you actually wrote a book about dating.

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How to woo and win women by being an obnoxious jerk. And I'm an expert at it.

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The obnoxious jerk part. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Women have, see, I know how it works. Women do not know what to do when a man has the secret down.

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And I have the secret. The formula, it's easy. The secret is that if you can be just a little bit obnoxious and irritating and a little bit of a jerk all mixed in, while you activate the mother instinct gene and you work with the bewilder filter that women have, then it's over.

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Just a matter of time before they say yes when you propose. No, I'm serious.

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They have no, it doesn't work. They can say they don't like it. They can say they resist it, but it's just not true.

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I'm liking Kat. She really should unmute and say what she's been saying in chat. She said that Nick should go grab a frying pan.

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I don't think she should just grab a frying pan. I mean, it should be a cast iron frying pan. She's not strong enough because of her hand issue.

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She's not strong enough to hit me inside the head with a frying pan. So the book has titles like regarding the rule of women.

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Kat was saying something. What were you saying, Kat? Oh no, it was not important. I said it's a gentle love tap, whack, right upside the back of your head.

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Oh yeah, she should hit me all the time on the arm and the shoulder. Once I go, that's it, that's all you got.

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She hits me again harder and she hurt herself. So yeah. She's awesome,

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I like her. She's a good woman, but she is going through a lot of pain and suffering right now. So it's what it is.

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Definitely in our prayers though, for sure. She needs it. All right, so I got something we could talk about, something that's been on my mind a lot lately.

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And what I have done already today is since the past half hour has gone to is

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Roman Catholicism true on Facebook? And let me refresh it. I put up a post saying, hey, we're going to be here right now if anybody wants to come in and talk.

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And so before we get into that, let me just say, because you and I talked about this beforehand, you had several people,

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Roman Catholics challenging you, accusing you of dodging debates, of running away from Roman Catholics.

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We have made it very clear this platform is set up for questions.

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Tonight's an open question. Any topic, but this is also set up for debates.

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We've made it clear to them, every Thursday night they could come in, we'll set up a formal debate and we can have it.

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I haven't been contacted by any of them. Have you? No. I don't think they're going to ever because, the only ones who are going to halfway consider such a challenge would be those who know some scripture and know how to twist scripture.

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And some people have been emailing me saying, hey, you need to arrange debates with the top Catholic apologists.

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I'm like, brother, you're not arranging anything except trying to move to another state here pretty soon.

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But some Catholic wants to debate me, that's fine. We can do a formal arrangement and things like that. We can get to a church and have a narrowed topic and actually do it.

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I don't have any problem with that. But it would have to be based on God's word, not on their so -called sacred tradition or their vacuous, isogetical methodologies for making the

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Bible say what they want it to say. But I've learned a lot in the past few years, I've been discussed with a lot of them and I'd be more than willing to have a serious, filmed, moderated debate.

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Soteriology would be good. Oh, I'd love to do Mariolatry. Oh, man, would I like to talk about Mari?

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But no one, what Catholic would want to debate Mari? Because out of the Bible, they can't do that. Lest they want to, what

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I would do if they did, let's just say hypothetically, that a Roman Catholic priest or apologist wanted to actually debate me formally and on a setting in a church, whatever it is.

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And we could film it the whole bit. I would show up with a directional microphone and recording device.

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And I would aim it at my opponent. And then we'd be having debates.

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Maybe sometime you might say, well, what's that for? Well, I wanna pick up the ripping sounds when you quote scriptures and the ripping out of context.

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I wanna see if anybody else can hear that. So, because they're not gonna really take the word of God for what it actually says.

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They're gonna drive truckloads of heresy through their false doctrines. That's what they're gonna do.

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Hey, look at this. Maybe, oh, people are responding. Oh, check this out. So I did a little something since we've been talking on is

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Roman Catholicism true? I typed in 25 minutes ago, hey, doing a live talk on Google Hangouts if you want to talk about the

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Catholic faith. And I put the link right there. And then

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I wrote eight minutes ago, Catholics, anyone wanna come in and talk? Then another one.

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And then two minutes ago, Catholics, anyone? So, nobody. And then what I did was

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I wrote, just a test that I wrote, Roman Catholicism is false. And then the responses are coming in. Yeah, see, look.

22:46

Oh, well, someone said, amen. And then one said, sure is. Okay, so that's an agreement. So anyway, nice, okay.

22:54

Maybe the Roman Catholics aren't gonna wanna debate here anymore. I think they're getting their theological rears handed back to them by a lot of people.

23:05

You were about to start with something that you've been thinking about. So let's go through that. Now we have Andrew came in.

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I don't know, I know he was here before, but I can't remember. I think he was the, I think he's from Australia, if I remember correctly.

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But I can't remember his background. I'll just have him say something and. Yeah, then we'll know.

23:25

Well, why don't you start with what you were gonna say about Roman Catholicism, and then we'll bring him in.

23:30

Oh, it's bad. Looking for my water. I had water, I forgot my water, darn it. Let's see what

23:36

Hayes got to say, because what I wanna say is something else, not really on Catholicism. He can't unmute the mic. Well, I can try that, let's see.

23:44

I just added him into broadcast. Let's see if I can unmute his mic here. There we go.

23:50

There you go. All right, Andrew. You needed to be added into the broadcast. Yeah, that's okay. I just thought

23:55

I'd turn up and see what happened. I was delaying actually enjoying a watermelon, rock melon,

24:01

I should say, and getting a coffee. So sorting out life before I sit down. Good, good.

24:09

So are you gonna say something? I'm here to learn in as much. Don't have any questions off the top of my head.

24:17

Are you a Christian or what? I forgot, sorry. Yes, I am. Yes, I came in two weeks ago. Okay. I would have come in last week, but it was

24:25

Thanksgiving for you guys. We don't have Thanksgiving. So kind of simply clears that one up.

24:32

You guys aren't thankful for anything, huh? Say that again. You guys aren't thankful for anything, huh?

24:38

Oh, we're thankful. We just don't have it as a holiday. Do you have a 4th of July?

24:45

No. Yeah, sure you do. It goes right through to the 3rd. We have a 4th of July.

24:51

We do. Oh, that's so great. We have what is your 4th of July. It's 26th of January.

24:59

That's okay. I'll just tell you that. All right. We're good, man. And we get that off.

25:06

That being the day that Australia was settled. Oh, really? I didn't know that, okay.

25:12

How old is Australia? 200 years, somewhere around there.

25:18

Federation was 1901. Okay, so your ancestors were all criminals.

25:26

Is that it? You're from that seed? You betcha. Scottish and English?

25:34

Yeah, mine were lawyers, my ancestors. From Germany, apparently. So they were criminals too?

25:40

Probably, yeah. Any relation to Martin Luther? I'm aware of.

25:47

That was my last name, Slick, which came from the German Schlichtin. So I don't know, but I go back to Germany sometimes.

25:53

I wanted to ask you about this. You're talking about your last name. Who was the first Slick? I know Schlichtin was the last name, but when did it change to Slick?

26:02

It was your dad. Yeah, because he had a brother, older brother, and my uncle, and his name was

26:08

Schlichtin. But Schlichtin is too hard to say for a lot of people. They say, hey, Slick. It just became a nickname.

26:14

So literally, my dad's older brother was Schlichtin, and then when my dad was born, the doctor said, what's the last name?

26:23

She goes, Slick, and that's how we got it. That's kind of convenient.

26:31

So basically, you and your brothers are the only Slicks, well, in the wild. No, there are other Slicks in the country.

26:37

In fact, get this. I was coming out of a gym in Southern California one day, and I had to go out this exit, and there were these offices, and I saw a name tag on the office, and it was a girl's last name,

27:00

Slick, and wow. So I knock on her door, and she opened it, and she happened to be absolutely gorgeous, and I think that played a bit of how our dialogue went.

27:12

She was just a bombshell, and so I thought she thought that I might've been coming on to her, but I wasn't.

27:19

I said, look, I could see she was distant. She'd always had guys coming on to her all the time, and I said, look, what's your last name?

27:26

It's Slick, and I said, my name is Slick, and I said, well, that's very unusual, and she said, really?

27:32

And I said, yeah, mine came from Schlichtin, and she said, so did mine, and I said, really?

27:37

She goes, but we can't be related because my uncle or my grandfather, blah, blah, blah, was in Indiana, I thought, was it

27:46

Iowa or Indiana? And that's where he came from. I said, oh, okay, well, it's Southern California.

27:52

I said, okay, I'll see you, bye. That's the only way I ever talked to her. I went home and told my mom and dad about it like a week or two later, and they said, oh, no, no, no, no.

27:59

We were in Indiana first, and then came to Southern California. Oh, wow, so you may have been related to them.

28:07

You may have been related to her, yeah. What's that? Well, that was someone on a phone.

28:15

Let me, I can add him in, but. Yeah, but she had blonde hair, and my brother,

28:22

I have two brothers, and one of them, blonde hair, blue eyed, so it makes sense that probably we're related, you know, like third cousins removed or something like that, but whatever.

28:32

So I brought Edison in, although Edison. Keep talking, I'm gonna go get some water while I'm talking, I don't want to interrupt you, but keep talking,

28:37

I can hear you. Edison, do you have some questions? Sure. We've got some noise.

28:43

Yes, sir, hi. He's got a little child in the. Yeah, my baby is very noisy.

28:51

If I remember correctly, Edison, you're from the Philippines, correct? Yes, sir,

28:57

I'm from the Philippines. Hi, yeah, yo. Do you have a question for Matt tonight? By the way, yeah,

29:05

I'm from Cebu, Philippines, and it's always nice to, I'm always happy for you guys, your ministry, especially

29:13

Matt, I always watch his live Facebook. Oh, good, I'm glad you do. We don't have a, yeah, we don't have a 1 -800 number here, so I can't call in, but I just watch, and it's very nice to see you all busy every day.

29:29

You always engage with public people, discussing about theological issues.

29:36

I do have a question, though. I have two questions, with regards to a verse in 2

29:45

Peter 2, verse one. Okay, I can't, I can tell you that I won't be able to concentrate with lots of high -pitched sounds behind me, because I have a hearing problem, and I don't process that very well.

30:00

I'm sorry, but I won't be able to for very long. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry, but yeah,

30:05

I have a question with regards. No, I'm serious. I can't, I can't. Okay, hold on,

30:11

I'm gonna have to do. All right, so one of the things folks may not realize, let me take him off here, oh, the thing with Matt's hearing is high -pitched noises do well, so Edison, if you can keep the kids out, or if not, we could type the question in.

30:36

I know you were reading off the phone, so I'll bring it back up in volume. Yeah, it's already on the other room.

30:43

Okay. All right, so can you hear me clearly now? Yeah, so ask your question, then mute your phone, and that way, that might help with it.

30:54

You can still hear him. Yeah, all right. My question is on 2

30:59

Peter 2, verse one. 2 Peter 2. 2 Peter chapter. Yeah, I know about it, yeah.

31:08

It's with regards to actually two issues that are brought up in this issue, question.

31:15

That would be the perseverance of the saints and the limited atonement, because it says here there are false teachers that denies the

31:26

Lord who bought them. So my question is that, will the

31:32

Lord bought including false teachers? And what about if you are genuinely being bought or included with a particular redemption, is it possible to become a false teacher?

31:50

Because as I've understood correctly, in the light of the perseverance of the saints, those who are genuinely being bought or the elect that are already saved, they will persevere if they are genuine.

32:05

So I'd like to hear your comment about that verse. Sure, no problem. In 2 Peter chapter two. Thank you.

32:11

I'll mute you so that I can focus. Sorry, I do have a hearing problem, and I can't process,

32:18

I have autism, and I can't process too many sounds at once, particularly when they're high. But false prophets also arose among the people just as there will be also false prophets among you who will secretly introduce destructive heresies.

32:31

So false prophets arose among the people. What people is he talking about? So if you read the context, we had the prophetic word made sure, but no prophecies of scriptures of one's own private interpretation, et cetera.

32:47

People moved by the Holy Spirit, but false prophets arose among them. So what he's probably talking about is the issue of the

32:54

Old Testament. And because it talks about the issue of the Holy Mountain in verse 18, and the

33:01

Holy Mountain has allusions to the Old Testament, some other stuff, but nevertheless, if you were to look at 1

33:08

Peter and 2 Peter, what you'll see is that Peter was addressing the 12 tribes of Israel, that's 1

33:14

Peter 1 .1. And also in 2 Peter 1 .1

33:20

also. In both epistles, Peter refers to the Old Testament many times. I don't even know how many times, but over and over and over and over.

33:28

I mean, 1 Peter, I have a list here, verses chapter one, verses 22, 23, 24, 25, chapter two, verses six, seven, eight, nine, two, 24, three verses eight, nine, 10, 11, 12.

33:40

And it goes on. And so there's lots of verses of the Old Testament references. So it looks, in my opinion, what

33:47

I think is going on here is that what he's doing is referencing the same kind of being bought as was spoken of in the

33:55

Old Testament. Deuteronomy 32 .6. Do you thus repay the Lord, O foolish and unwise people?

34:00

Is not he our father who has bought you? He has made you and established you. So Moses was talking there and he's addressing the rebellious

34:07

Israelites who are turning away from God. Is he not the father who's bought you? And they were purchased out of Egypt.

34:16

And yet there are people who are still buying, still rejecting him. So what I think what's going on is that because of so many

34:22

Old Testament allusions, the phraseology, rejecting the Lord who bought you, I think it would have been understood that what he's referring to was this idea of the

34:30

Israelites coming out of Egypt, being freed, being purchased, and yet they're rejecting

34:37

God. It doesn't mean that everybody was saved because they were bought in a different sense of being saved than being redeemed in that sense.

34:49

So that's how I look at it. It makes sense to say that Peter's referring to the Jewish people being freed from Egypt.

34:55

And he's not talking about being born again specifically, but about being bought in that same sense they were.

35:01

And we have unbelievers there, the Jews called tribes of Israel who were rejecting the

35:06

Messiah, rejecting Christ. You're denying the one who bought you and the freedom of the Jews and everything else that had come.

35:13

That's what I think. Yeah, that's actually nice.

35:19

I'll take note of the verses because some of my friends are asking me regarding that question.

35:27

I do have one more question though, if it's okay. If you want, I can give you verses to prove eternal security.

35:35

It's up to you. All right. Please do it. Are you interested? Yes? Yes, yes.

35:43

Okay. Let me do this. I'm gonna do is share my screen.

35:50

So if you see my screen, you'll see my Bible program. Okay. And what

35:55

I'm gonna do is go here and go to Colossians 2 .13 for one thing. And it's right there.

36:03

You are dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He's made you alive together, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us.

36:18

He's taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. So let me ask you, you can type it in or you get on mute because your kids and stuff, but well, let me just tell you.

36:28

Cancel the certificate of debt. The word certificate of debt. Let me show you this in Greek. Okay.

36:38

The word certificate of debt here is a single Greek word. See this? Certificate of debt. Let me make this bigger.

36:45

I don't know if you guys can see it very well. I'll hire you to do this with the new version.

36:50

I'm on eight now and I used to have - The way to do it, let me keep you on screen so I can see.

36:56

But if you go to the, on the - Far right. Got it. Okay. They moved that on us.

37:02

All right. Now you got it. Thanks a lot. So certificate of debt. See how it says here, certificate of debt.

37:09

And what that is a single Greek word. Chirographon. See? Chirographon.

37:15

And so what it means, let me click on this, go down here. It's a handwritten record of debt.

37:22

A note written by the hand, which makes one obligated to fulfill what is written. And you can see, this is what the word chirographon means.

37:30

And it's the only place the entire Bible is used. Right there. So what is it that's canceled?

37:37

Okay. What is it that is canceled there? When we look at this, we know that the certificate of debt is canceled at the cross.

37:45

Having nailed it to the cross. That's when it's debt. Now it could be two things that are talked about here.

37:51

The law, or it can be our sin debt. Because, in Luke 11, four, and forgive us our sins.

38:01

Jesus, our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Forgive us our sins. That's a Greek word. Hermarteia. Hermarteia, like from Hermarteios, but it's from Hermarteia.

38:10

Okay. Which means sin. And Matthew six, what was it? Matthew six, six, four.

38:16

Oh, where was that? Matthew. I do this all the time. Here we go. Forgive us our debts.

38:22

612. That's right. See? And he says, we'll be done. Give us a standard bread and forgive us our debts.

38:28

And that is the word of philema. Right? From a philema. Which means legal debt.

38:33

Okay. So what I'm showing you here, is that when we, we look at this certificate of debt, a handwritten

38:41

IOU of legal indebtedness, a record of debt. Handwritten. Okay. And what we have here, this word, care.

38:50

This word right here. Ouch. K - It's a K - E -

38:55

I - R. That's what that is right there. It means hand. And graphe, writing. Care, graphe, handwriting.

39:02

And so it's a legal handwriting debt. Okay. I've just given you some background. So you ask them, when did he cancel the certificate of debt?

39:10

They're going to have to say at the cross. And here's the thing. It's not when you believe. The certificate of debt is not canceled when you believe.

39:18

It's canceled at the cross. Whoa. If it's a sin debt, then who's it canceled for?

39:26

Has to be canceled for the people. It can't be for everybody because you can't go to hell for a sin debt that's canceled.

39:34

If you don't have a sin debt, you can't go to, you can't go to hell. People then say to me, well,

39:40

Matt, you still have to accept it. I said, no, you don't. You have to accept it or not accept it. If the sin debt isn't there, whether you accept it or not, you can't go to hell.

39:49

No, you got to believe. No, you don't have to believe. The sin debt's not there. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. You just can't go to hell because there's no sin to be held against you.

39:57

See the problem. Well, what this means is the sin debt, having nailed it to the cross.

40:03

All right. If you nail it to the cross and it's canceled, then it cannot be that you can lose your salvation because he canceled the sin debt.

40:14

If by some chance he cancels your sin debt, did he cancel all of it or only part of it?

40:20

If it's all of it, eternal security is necessary. If they say he only canceled part of it, then how can you be saved without all your sins being canceled?

40:31

It doesn't make any sense. It's a long way around, but I explained more than what you needed to know for this, but that's a very powerful verse for eternal security.

40:40

Colossians 2 .14. Did you understand that? Yeah. Actually. Yeah. And here's another one.

40:49

John 6 .37 through 40. All that the father gives me will come to me.

40:54

Well, who's given to the father? Well, they're going to say the ones that choose. So God chooses to God gives one to Jesus whom he chooses.

41:05

And, you know, in the context of eternal security, I'm not going to argue that right now. And the one who comes to him,

41:10

I certainly will not cast out for I've come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me that of all that he's given me,

41:17

I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. This is the will of the father that everyone who beholds the son, that means becomes a believer and believes in him, live eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day.

41:30

So the will of the father is here. The will of the father, will of him who sent me, all that he's given me right here.

41:39

Okay. Everyone who holds a son and believes in him, right? Lose nothing, raise him up, right?

41:47

Raise him up on the last day, raise him up on the last day. So essentially what we have is eternal life is equivalent to not being lost.

41:55

But anyway, the point is Jesus can't lose any because if he loses some, then he's failed to do the will of the father.

42:03

So you ask your people, your friends, go to John 6, 39 and 40, mainly swear to God, can he lose them?

42:11

And they'll have to say, well, no, because if he lost them, he failed to do the will of the father. And that would mean

42:18

Jesus sinned. Now, what are they gonna do at that point? They're gonna have a problem.

42:24

What the only response is, I've heard is, well, they can lose themselves. Jesus wasn't losing them, they lost themselves.

42:32

And then, you know, you say, oh, so that's not what it says. It says that Jesus will lose none because they've been given by the father to Jesus.

42:42

That means whoever believes from your perspective, from whoever's been given, he can't lose.

42:48

Even if they were to unbelieve, then they would be lost, right? Yes, you're stuck, okay?

42:56

That help? Yeah, that really helps. It clarifies to me the benefits of the atonement of Christ, what he did on the cross, that he actually accomplished things.

43:12

He did not make salvation available, but he actually saved and secures the elect, the very elect.

43:21

That's right, exactly correct. He did that because God doesn't make any mistakes when he gave to the son.

43:27

The father gave to the son is because of the ones that he chose to give to the son. It says in Ephesians 1, 4, it says he chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him.

43:42

In love, he predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself. A lot of people, what they wanna do is get the scripture to say that God is predestining people and giving them to Christ only if he sees that they're going to believe in him.

43:56

And what they're absolutely doing is putting human philosophy into the biblical situation and then interpreting the

44:02

Bible in light of that. But nevertheless, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. And I can get into the stuff about in him, what that means, but yeah.

44:11

And then once people say that they can lose their salvation, I said, okay, what do you gotta do to keep it? Just give me a list.

44:17

And then this works righteousness. So do you like Balut?

44:32

And Edison, do you like Balut? He looks like he's frozen now.

44:38

Not sure if he's screaming. Hello? Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm out. Yeah, but can you hear me clearly?

44:46

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna ask you if you like Balut. Oh, yeah, yeah.

44:54

It depends though, it depends. Okay. There are actually bad Baluts and there are good ones, yeah.

45:02

Oh, I don't know of any good one, but okay. Yeah. Yeah.

45:12

So anyway, good. So anyway, I have one last question, if you don't mind, and I'll just leave,

45:18

I won't interrupt you with your comments and I'll just leave it with that. I have, yeah, that would be

45:24

Hebrews chapter two, verse nine. Hebrews two nine. They love to quote, yeah,

45:30

I believe that was two nine when it says here, he died for everyone or he tasted death for everyone.

45:38

I've already made some response to that, but I'd like to hear what your comment on that.

45:43

Hebrews chapter two, verse nine. I'm not sure what to do with that. He tasted death for everyone because I don't know what it means to taste death.

45:52

I don't know what that means. And if I were to debate with someone who says, look, this means he, you know, right here is proof that he died for everybody.

45:59

He tasted death for everybody. I'd say, well, what does it mean to taste death for everybody? You know, what does it mean?

46:05

And I, because of that, I can't tell you. And the Greek word there is gusete.

46:15

And, you know, it means to cause to taste, to taste something, to eat, partake.

46:23

So he tasted it for everyone. I don't understand what it means.

46:30

So I can't answer the question. I can't tell you what it means. That's my honest response. I just don't know what it means.

46:38

I have some insight on the tasting, Matt. Okay, sure. Yeah, that taste is also used in describing

46:45

Jesus on the cross when they offered him the sponge and he wouldn't drink it.

46:52

Okay, he wouldn't taste it. He wouldn't ingest it, but it says they put it up for him to taste and it doesn't necessarily carry the meaning.

47:01

In fact, it probably doesn't carry the meaning anywhere you look at it of ingesting something, taking it in, imbibing of it or partaking of it in that sense.

47:14

So the word taste needs to be defined within its use in context there.

47:20

Oh yeah, but also the word might in the sense of how it's being used is a

47:25

Aorist Middle subjunctive. And I do not know this stuff. I'd have to go to a

47:31

Greek manual and look at the actual analysis of that word in that verse because sometimes the way the subjunctive works is stronger or weaker depending on a few things.

47:47

It gets complicated. This is one of the things I started hating about Greek when I was in seminary. It's like, are you kidding me?

47:54

I mean, you gotta know every single detail, but every single sub -detail, but it's worth looking at at that point to see what do you do when you have an

48:03

Aorist Middle subjunctive that precedes the word taste? Does it occur anywhere else?

48:09

And then we would look and see how there's a pattern. That's for Greek scholars, but I don't know what it means because I don't know what it means to taste death.

48:17

Yeah, well, our Armenian friends would love to focus on the everyone part, not the taste part.

48:23

Sure, yeah, he did. He tasted death for everyone because that's what it says. And I say, now you tell me what it means. What are they gonna tell you?

48:31

You know, just what does it mean? And if you don't know what it means, if you don't know what it means, then how do you know it's against Calvinism?

48:41

Yeah, I mean, the meaning itself, yeah. I would, well, anyway, they would admit that the unbelievers will not partake the blessings of the atonement or the blessings of redemption.

48:55

So in that point, they're already admitting that the effect and the blessings and the privilege of the atonement is limited, limited to those who believe.

49:05

And no one can believe unless they're drawn by the Father. And the benefits are limited.

49:10

But what they're actually saying is that Jesus actually paid their sin on the cross.

49:17

And sin is a legal debt. And so what they're saying is Jesus paid that debt and they still go to hell for debt that's been paid by Jesus.

49:27

I'd say that's not right. It defines the meaning, it redefines the meaning of atonement.

49:37

Yeah, it does, yeah. Yeah, they have to do that a lot, yeah. Let me ask you, which city are you in in the

49:45

Philippines? Which city? I'm gonna look it up on maps. I'm just curious. Oh, Cebu. Oh, Cebu. Cebu city.

49:51

Oh, Cebu, Philippines, okay. I'm looking at it now. Yeah. I was in -

49:58

It's a small island. I was told that Cebu is one of the more beautiful parts of the

50:05

Philippines. So I was told that I could look forward to going there. I'm only gonna be there for, I think, three days. But -

50:12

You gotta get there going. Yeah, I'll be a week in Manila, and then three days in Cebu. Yeah, there are good places here in Cebu, a lot of -

50:26

There are nice people in Cebu, but it's not a premier tourist destination, though.

50:34

Most of the tourists would go to Boracay, but if you wanna meet lots of people, yeah,

50:39

Cebu's one of the best ones. Good. Yeah, I'm trying to see where we went, but we went to Tacloban, I think.

50:48

But I can't remember some of the names. It doesn't matter. We've gotten a plane, went from island to island. But hey, it's okay.

50:56

Well, good, man. Yeah. I'm looking at Cebu right now on it. All right.

51:03

So I guess questions for today. You're breaking up there now,

51:11

Edison, sorry. All right, so we had someone from Australia, someone from the

51:20

Philippines. We'll see, we're gonna bring Philip up next. He'll, I don't know where he's gonna be from, but before we do,

51:26

Matt, we should talk about our sponsor, MyPillow. Yeah, great, great pillow.

51:34

We have actually had a number of our listeners who went out and went and purchased it, and were very happy.

51:39

They weren't sure whether you and I were just doing hype because they're sponsors of ours. And so you weren't lying.

51:48

They really are good pillows. They are, they're good pillows. They're great pillows, I love them.

51:53

And for folks who don't know, Mike Liddell has come under some fire recently, the founder of MyPillow, because he donated a million dollars to a pro -life movie.

52:07

And so, of course, now all the people are, because businesses aren't supposed to do things for religious, conservative religious causes.

52:16

And so he's come under some heat for that, but it makes me like the pillow even more. I'm sorry,

52:22

I was talking about something. He came under heat for what? He donated a million dollars to a pro -life movie.

52:29

These liberal wacko morons, they're the hypocrite lying sacks of crap. You know what?

52:34

You're only allowed to donate to what they want you to donate. They want freedom only for them.

52:41

And the lying sacks of crap, they're L socks. Gosh, they have, you know, they just,

52:46

L socks left. The liberal leftist hypocrisy is just, it just makes me mad.

52:54

They're so, they're just pieces of crap. But the pillow's good. The pillow's good.

53:01

Pillow's good. And I have a lot more respect for their founder, Mike Liddell. But if you want to check out the pillows, you can call 1 -800 -944 -5396.

53:15

That's 1 -800 -944 -5396.

53:21

Let them know you heard about them on Apologetics Live. Someone in the chat is talking about their

53:30

MyPillow. They're saying the MyPillow guy is awesome. So I encourage you to check them out, not just because they are sponsors here, but well, they're sponsors here because, well, we love

53:42

MyPillow. Yeah, I do. All right, so I just brought,

53:47

I brought Philip Graham, brought you in if you want to unmute yourself, or I may have to, let me just double check.

53:54

Yeah, I got to bring you up. Hold up. There we go. You can be able to unmute yourself now.

54:03

But he said in the chat, he says tolerance is only for, tolerance only for what they believe should be tolerated.

54:10

Yeah, hypocrites. Okay, he said he doesn't have a mic, he's just listening. All right, well, then we're not gonna hear his question, but you can, if you want,

54:19

Philip, if you want to type your question in, you can do that, we can answer that.

54:26

And what I will do is go to our Apologetics Live Facebook group and see what questions we have in there for you.

54:38

You know, there was a question that sort of came up on a recent article that you wrote, actually,

54:45

Matt, and I want to get into the article itself and the, you know, the personal nature, but there is an argument that some, we're just talking

54:53

Calvinism, there's an argument that some non -Calvinists make against Calvinists when it comes to family members, children specifically, that don't believe the faith, having been raised in a godly home, having been raised in the church, been raised in, you know, even being taught

55:12

Calvinism, and yet they know the truth and walk away from it.

55:17

Some try to make an argument that that is proof that Calvinism is not true, because the children aren't believing.

55:26

I have my views on that, but I do want to bring that up and ask you, is that, do you think, well,

55:32

I know you're not gonna say I think it's a legitimate argument against Calvinism, but when they try to do that, what do you think they're trying to say is wrong with Calvinism that the children of a

55:43

Calvinist wouldn't believe? Well, actually, what they're saying is Calvinism is true when they raise that argument. They just don't understand what they're saying.

55:50

Say, you know, in Calvinism, God is the one who sovereignly saves people. Doesn't matter how they're raised.

55:57

He can save someone who's raised in a good home or a bad home. It's his sovereign choice.

56:02

So for them to say that if you're raised as a Calvinist, see, it didn't work, means they don't understand what they're criticizing.

56:11

They're actually saying, oh, so God has not sovereignly chosen that person. Right, that's Calvinism. Okay. But for them to say, well, see, it didn't work, means that they're arguing

56:20

Arminianism and calling it Calvinism. They are clueless. Yeah, and actually,

56:27

I was curious how you were gonna answer, because that's pretty much how I usually answer is it's the fact that in Arminianism, I had a guy who came to my house years ago, and he was like, he didn't believe in Calvinism.

56:42

But his point was, what would you do if your children grow up and they don't believe?

56:49

I mean, wouldn't that rock your belief in Calvinism? I said, no, actually, that would support it.

56:54

Yeah, exactly. In Calvinism, it's God who chooses whether my children believe or not, not me. In Arminianism, it's all up to me.

57:02

Then I would feel the pressure. If my children don't believe, then the pressure's on me to convince them.

57:11

And once he had a child, he actually came back to me and says, I think I understand the point you were making.

57:17

And yeah, Calvinism is a much better way to understand the children's salvation.

57:24

There's different reasons to believe it, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right.

57:30

Yeah, I'm gonna modify. I released an article about my daughter, Rachel, because this is coming up, or it's Elisa today.

57:35

And I really wrestled with how to write it and what to write, but I may put that in there too. Because I have figured that that article's gonna grow and modify as different people argue differently.

57:50

But, you know, I don't recall that you've ever lost a child.

57:59

Physically. Yeah, I lost one a little bit earlier in the development than you did.

58:04

Our child didn't come out of the womb. Right. And, you know, that's a hard thing.

58:12

And it's a pain that never goes away. And there's a physical reality to that kind of a loss.

58:20

There's also a spiritual reality to another loss. And I have to be careful how

58:25

I say what I say, because I don't want anybody to get the impression that my daughter is an evil person. She's not, she's very compliant, a very good girl.

58:33

And if anything, I would say my Asperger's was a deleterious effect. But there are a lot of factors that people are just not aware of.

58:43

In fact, I did sit in the car today with a friend of mine and tell him, and I think I told you, Andrew, and, you know, some other factors and stuff.

58:51

But I don't remember if I have or haven't. But I talked to my friend today, and I said, here's some of the other factors and blah, blah, blah.

58:57

He goes, oh, wow. And there's always more to it. And it's unfortunate that when people try and use a man's daughter against him,

59:06

I mean, come on. And these are Christians who are doing this. You'd think that they'd be smarter than that.

59:12

Well, well, well, well, let's hold up there. They're professing Christians. They're professing

59:17

Christians, that's true. Yeah, once we had, I don't know if you were there, present, when a particular incident happened, when

59:28

I lost my cool. Yeah. Remember that one? Yeah, that's why I said, I don't know if we want to get into personal nature.

59:34

That's okay, it doesn't bother me. I'm all ready for it now. But there's one thing that happened, and it was very, it was a very low blow.

59:44

It was a very cruel thing in an atheist room. And even the atheists jumped on this atheist about it.

59:54

Yeah. So, you know, there are people who have decency. But whenever those who claim to be Christ who are against Calvinism will use a man's daughter against him,

01:00:02

I mean, it's like, guys, grow up, you know? You're just siding with the unbelievers when you use that kind of a tactic.

01:00:09

So, whatever. Yeah, and I think that what you end up seeing is that you see folks who really would, they have such a dislike for a, and this could be for any position.

01:00:25

You know, it could be on Calvinism or anything else where you see people that are so blinded by a view they hold, they can't reasonably think through the way other people would view things.

01:00:37

My wife and I were talking about this last night, actually, because we had a guy that's been coming to our

01:00:45

Bible study and I've been teaching. And I know the church he goes to, it's a word of faith church.

01:00:51

So, I'm getting a good idea of his background. You know,

01:00:56

I wanna be, this is someone, this isn't someone I'm gonna deal with like in here where it's one time

01:01:01

I may speak to them. This is someone who's coming to the Bible study week after week, he's been coming for months.

01:01:07

And so, slowly talking to him. But he ends up, he can't even see that what he's doing is reading his word of faith background into the text of scripture.

01:01:19

Oh yeah. And my wife and I, driving home, we're talking about that, that this is, it's common.

01:01:26

You've seen this plenty of times on a radio show, on the streets, different places, where people have a position and you've dealt with it even here in these shows.

01:01:38

People come in and make an argument and they're not arguing against what you're saying, they're arguing against what you think, what they think you mean, because that's what they expect the argument to be.

01:01:51

And they're not even listening. And I think that's what a lot of those arguments are. I think when people try to use the children, they haven't even thought it through that, well, to say that my child doesn't believe means

01:02:03

Calvinism's wrong, you just explained Calvinism that God chooses, not me.

01:02:10

Right, yep, I'm with you. And a variation of this kind of a thing is that a lot of times

01:02:15

I'll say, I'll ask them if they're praying like a Calvinist. You're praying to ask

01:02:21

God to change their hearts, because that's what a Calvinist would pray. But the

01:02:27

Armenians would pray that their sovereign free will would be as supreme. They can't pray that God would change our hearts. They can't do that.

01:02:33

They have to pray that the people would, in their own wisdom, be able to believe in God.

01:02:42

But then why would you pray for that since you're not praying to the person? You gotta pray to God. So how would an

01:02:47

Armenian pray? God, could you please, let's see, can't change their heart because that would violate their free will, they would think.

01:02:54

Let's see, can't influence, maybe he can influence them. Yeah, God, influence them so that they would believe.

01:03:00

But then doesn't God know how much influence to give to somebody to make them believe? You know, open the clouds up, no belief, okay?

01:03:10

It'd be like that. I mean, so the Armenians, they don't think these things through. They don't think them through and it's unfortunate.

01:03:19

And, you know, but I wanna say something here. You see, the only time I've talked derogatorily about Armenian theology is in context like this.

01:03:29

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I had a call on the radio show today where they brought up Leighton Flowers.

01:03:35

And Leighton and I had a discussion and I don't think he did as well as he could have because I don't think his theology allows him to.

01:03:42

He's basically an Armenian. He says he's not, but basically he was anti -Calvinist. And we brought up the issue of what

01:03:50

Leighton is doing. And what he's doing is he is making himself known as an anti -Calvinist, trying to refute

01:03:56

Calvinism. And he's causing division in the body of Christ. He shouldn't be doing that.

01:04:01

And I said, I don't go around attacking Arminianism. I don't go around saying, here's the videos against Arminianism.

01:04:09

I don't do that. The only time I will speak against Arminianism is in a context like this, where we're doing a comparative whatever.

01:04:15

But it's not my ministry, it's not my job, it's not my purpose. I still believe Armenians are saved and I don't have any desire to separate from them.

01:04:22

But I just don't think Armenians think these things through seriously enough. And that's what I mean.

01:04:28

But it doesn't mean they're not saved. So, you know, I want people to understand, yes, I did talk smack about Arminianism in that context, but I'm not going out of my way, challenging people to debate to attack

01:04:38

Arminianism. What I do is I challenge people to debate to defend Calvinism. That's what I do.

01:04:44

Not to attack Arminianism, but to defend what I believe is biblical theology. Well, and I think the thing is,

01:04:50

I mean, you're bringing up Leighton only because of the fact that a caller brought him up, but one of the things you and I try to do, and we're not gonna be perfect at, but one of the things you and I have tried to do throughout our ministry is to address issues, address doctrines, teaching, not individual people.

01:05:09

Now, there are times where individual people, I mean, that have to be addressed. When you have a Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, and guys like that.

01:05:17

They're heretics. Yeah, they're not in the faith. We wouldn't call them brothers in Christ. No. But when you have people that, you know,

01:05:27

I was teaching last night at a Philippians 3 .17. One of the things that struck me is when you look at that passage where Paul is saying, he's just about to call out, he had previously called out some

01:05:42

Judaizers or what seemed to be Judaizers. He's gonna use some pretty harsh words in Philippians 3 .18

01:05:51

.19. And he's saying to the Philippians, I warned you with tears.

01:05:59

And I think this is the thing when I see these people who make a ministry about addressing other ministries or other people, and they almost prideful in their exposing of false teachers.

01:06:18

You know, I think people should be more like Justin Peters, the way he does it. I mean, yeah, he exposes these guys, but he does it the way

01:06:25

Paul says with tears. I mean, he is broken over the fact that these guys are teaching what they're teaching.

01:06:30

I know you, because I've been with you enough, right, I know you have that, where you don't like having to expose false teachers.

01:06:40

It's something we have to do. It's something we have to do though, right?

01:06:46

Right. Yeah. I mean,

01:06:54

I just, yeah, go ahead. I've told people that and I'm glad you brought that up because I don't like tackling

01:07:02

Beth Moore and saying stuff I'd say about Joel Osteen and Kenneth Copeland. I don't wanna,

01:07:08

I mean, who in the heck am I, you know, or you, you know, you'll do it too. But who are we to stand and say, hey, these guys are false teachers when so many thousands upon thousands believe in them?

01:07:21

Well, we just say it. Yeah, it's just tough.

01:07:27

It is, and it's something that has to get done because they're deceiving many people. I mean,

01:07:32

I think if, when we looked, I believe Joel Osteen has the largest

01:07:39

Twitter following within the realm of religion and spirituality.

01:07:47

And what he's teaching is false, but people are following him. And yes, there is a need to warn against false teaching.

01:07:56

Now, Matt, I'm gonna, I want you to define, or, you know, you would agree that there's differences in the levels of teaching, right?

01:08:04

So there's things that are damnable heresy. There's things that are heresy. There's things that are false. I know you have your theological grid on karm .org.

01:08:13

And so let's go through, you know, like, at what levels do you do what?

01:08:19

So at what level do you call someone out by name? At what level is it, hey, look, we disagree.

01:08:25

Like, you're late in flowers. You can sit down with him. We can sit down. You and I have sat down and had a meal with him.

01:08:31

Not a problem. We can discuss our differences. We can even discuss things that we agree on. Sometimes he usually likes to focus on our differences, but no,

01:08:39

I mean, we can do that. But there's others we wouldn't be able to do that. I mean, you and I can't sit down with Kenneth Copeland and have a meal, at least

01:08:48

I can't, not without like seriously calling him to repent. So what would you think are the proper levels for people, especially people online, like where do we draw the lines with people on how far we go in calling them out?

01:09:04

When is too far? Well, I think it's a very good question. See, these guys would affirm the

01:09:12

Trinity, the deity of Christ, the physical resurrection, justification by grace through faith, the virgin birth.

01:09:18

These guys would all do that. However, they touch on the issue of the nature and extent of the atonement.

01:09:27

For example, they will say that the atonement was not finished on the cross, but finished in hell. Now that's when you got to get the sword out and get into the position for fighting.

01:09:39

They will talk about the nature of man. And even though I haven't found anything, well, there's a yes and a no to this in the doctrine grid

01:09:46

I've developed, essential doctrines, monotheism is an essential doctrine, have no other

01:09:52

God before him, et cetera, et cetera. The deification of man, or as Eastern Orthodox, I should call it theosis.

01:10:00

And then in paragraph 460 of the Catholic Catechism, there's that too. So what

01:10:05

I'm thinking is that also the elevation of man needs to be absolutely rejected and attacked thoroughly because it's the elevation of man in the garden of Adam and Eve, which causes all kinds of other problems.

01:10:24

And the elevation of man is deification. You shall be like God, knowing good and evil. And I think that these are the kinds of things that are also worth dying on the hill for.

01:10:33

And so we need to be very, very aggressive against the slime bags who are standing up in the name of Christ and teaching doctrines that are contrary to the word of God, like Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer.

01:10:50

They teach many, many, many great things, they do, but they also teach profound heresies in the issues of the essentials, the nature extent of God's deity, that are trying to say that we're being deified, and then the nature and extent of the atonement because they're saying he finished the atonement in hell.

01:11:04

The rest of it is just flaming heresy that isn't damnable. They can say things like, God wants you to be healthy and wealthy.

01:11:12

Well, let's just talk about it, let's have a debate on it. But if they believe that, it doesn't mean they're not Christians. But when you start saying we can become divine like God, now you're getting into the issue of an essential.

01:11:23

And when you start saying that the atonement wasn't finished until Jesus died on the cross, then you're, let me tell you, it went to hell, then you're also messing with an essential.

01:11:32

And so that's when you gotta get the gloves out and start doing some either Krav Maga, which is really good, spiritual

01:11:39

Krav Maga, or some Jeet Kune Do. And I wanna start taking Jeet Kune Do if I can, I'm gonna see about that, but some

01:11:45

Bruce Lee, do some Bruce Lee on him. Well, Bruce did Wing Chung. Wing Chung, but he developed his own

01:11:51

Jeet Kune Do. And apparently there's a guy here in Boise, Idaho, who studied under this, a pupil of Bruce Lee directly.

01:12:04

So it's pretty close. I don't know, whatever, I'm about to kick my rear. Hey, how are you? Pretty much like done.

01:12:11

All right, so Luke Wayne, one of the guys who writes for Karm had done an article and Charlie had posted it on how to identify a false teacher.

01:12:21

I recently did a podcast on the rap report on my dailies as I've been studying, I'm preaching through the book of Job.

01:12:29

And Job provides for you, the first half of Job, how to identify a false teacher. Matt, how can people spot a false teacher?

01:12:37

What are some warning signs? Oh, just go to karm .org and believe whatever karm .org says. Except where you're wrong, like on -

01:12:45

Except for where I'm wrong, but it's not happened yet. Your covenant theology and -

01:12:52

Covenant theology, we know is biblical because God works theologically and covenantally.

01:12:59

That's dispensationalism, very good. Yeah, that's right. That's what they call it, covenant theology. So -

01:13:04

That's a fallacy of clarification. The word covenant in covenant theology is not used the same way as a covenant.

01:13:11

By dispensationalism, that's right. Because we own the Bible, you guys don't. He tries so hard.

01:13:20

So - What were we talking about before we started? Yeah, I wanted to identify, like what are some warning signs for folks to look for?

01:13:29

How to spot a false teacher? What are some things - Oh, you have to know the truth first.

01:13:36

You have to know the truth. If you don't know the truth, you can't spot a false teacher.

01:13:42

So the first thing is learn your doctrine. Learn your doctrine. Learn, I mean, not just a little bit.

01:13:49

Oh, there's one God, I got it. No, you gotta really learn. And this is what I wanna talk about earlier, which is, this relates to this.

01:13:57

I've been talking about it more and more because it's on my heart more and more. And this is Ephesians 4, 11.

01:14:03

And he gave some as a part, I'm gonna do a little bit of Greek here on you. He gave some as the apostles in Greek, and some as the prophets in Greek, and some as the evangelists in Greek, and some as the pastors and teachers.

01:14:15

That's how it reads in the Greek. So the word the is for pastors and teachers. So it looks like pastors and teachers are the same office.

01:14:23

But nevertheless, some as the pastors and teachers. At any rate, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the body of the service of the building of the body of Christ until we all attain the unity of the faith.

01:14:32

That has been echoing in my mind over and over and over again. And it's this, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the service to the building of the body of Christ.

01:14:45

That verse, Ephesians 4, 12. And I was talking to my wife about it last night. And what she'll let me do sometimes is just kind of vent, just say things that not necessarily got it all worked out, not necessarily thinking through everything, don't have all the answers.

01:15:00

And she made a good point about something, but my good response to what I was saying, I said, I'm concerned because I know the power of the word of God.

01:15:11

I know that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. And because America, because Australia, because England, because whatever country where the

01:15:21

Christian pastors are there, where there's a good enough presence. I mean, if you've got three pastors in a country of 10 million, what are you gonna do?

01:15:29

But I mean, for the overall, particularly here in America, which came out of a heavily Christian influenced history and culture, and it still is.

01:15:38

For the equipping of the saints for the work of the service, the building of the body of Christ. If, is it true that if the pastors were doing that, does it make sense then that we would be gaining disciples and we'd be gaining ground, not losing ground?

01:15:55

Now, certainly I understand that, like, for example, North Korea, if you walk around with a

01:16:00

Bible, they execute you basically. I mean, I understand there's differences of situations and things like that.

01:16:06

So I'm not knocking or complaining about situations where it's just impossible. I understand that there are things like that, because even in the

01:16:13

New Testament times, people fled from persecution. But for the equipping of the saints, in America, where we have the freedom to be able to put a bumper sticker on our car about Jesus, to carry a

01:16:25

Bible into a grocery store and not be arrested for it, we still have that freedom. Why is it that the pastors aren't apparently doing the equipping of the saints for the work of the service of the building up of the body of Christ?

01:16:39

Because if they were, doesn't it make sense to say that, well, then we'd be making progress in America.

01:16:49

But we're not, we're losing ground. Well, I'm not saying it's simply the pastor's fault for not doing their job.

01:16:56

There's certainly a very powerful onslaught of secularism on the rise. But even against that,

01:17:03

I have the confidence to believe that Christians can beat that. I have the confidence to know, to believe that what

01:17:10

Jesus can do through the church is immense. I mean, look at one guy did, 501 years ago, one guy with a hammer and a nail and a list of some stuff.

01:17:24

One guy, boom, Reformation. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so I just can't,

01:17:34

I'm really frustrated. My wife, I was talking to her about this. She said, well, you know, there are a lot of people, the

01:17:40

Christians, she said, maybe the Christians don't wanna be equipped for the work of service. I went, oh, you're right,

01:17:46

I didn't really think about that. Maybe they don't want to be equipped for the work of service. Maybe that's not what they want.

01:17:53

Maybe what they want is, you know, me, me, feed me. Maybe that's what they want.

01:18:00

And, you know, I wanna start a church. Half of me wants to start a church when I get to Arizona. I don't know if God wants it.

01:18:07

It's just on my heart of frustration speaking. But I wanna, you know, I'd love to build a sort of church, right, get a radio show down there.

01:18:13

Hey, on this day, we're gonna start a church and people are there, say a hundred people show up, whatever, and say, okay,

01:18:19

I got some good news. I got some bad news. The good news is Jesus Christ is

01:18:25

Lord. This is the word of God. I hope I'd hold up a Bible. This is what it is. Oh, praise God. Give it good news.

01:18:31

Here's the bad news. My job as a pastor is to equip you for this, you as a saint for the work of service to the building up of the body of Christ.

01:18:41

Now, what I want you to do before I explain what that means is I want you to look behind you. Look at the exit signs.

01:18:47

Everybody see the exit signs? Everybody looking? Okay, good. Now, now look back at me and I'm gonna say, look, feel free to leave out those exits anytime during my next message here.

01:18:59

I don't have any problem with that because what I want to do is speak to the elect of God, not to the unbelievers.

01:19:06

I want to address the saints of God who want to be trained for the work of service.

01:19:12

And if you don't want to be trained for the work of service, this is not the place for you. And I want to tell them, get your

01:19:19

Bibles and you open them up. When you come into church, you bring your Bible. You either bring it in your hand or you bring it in your phone.

01:19:25

I don't care, but you bring your Bibles. We're gonna go through the scriptures and I'm gonna have you look at the word of God. And my job is to equip you for the work of service, not to babysit you, not to give you diapers, not to say,

01:19:37

Jesus has a wonderful plan for your life and you're supposed to be healthy and wealthy. Give me $100 and you'll get 10 ,000.

01:19:43

I'm not gonna lie to them like that. I would tell them things like, God wants you to pick up that cross and follow after him and it may cost you your life.

01:19:51

It may cost you your job. This is the history of Christianity. People are being murdered for their faith all over the world.

01:19:58

And I want you to be equipped to die for him if need be by his grace, if he so deems it.

01:20:03

In his sovereign grace as he ordains that, because in Philippians 1 .29, it's been granted to you not only to suffer, but also to believe.

01:20:11

The suffering for him is even granted. This is how I would speak to the congregation.

01:20:17

And I'd say, I don't know how many are gonna show up next week for more of the same, but that's what's gonna happen next week.

01:20:24

Well, Kat says she'll drive to Arizona just for the church. Just so you've got your first member.

01:20:30

Oh yeah, absolutely. How far do you live from Arizona? We're just across the border in New Mexico.

01:20:38

So it's about a three hour drive to get into Tucson area. Okay. Well, I'm in Idaho, so I know what's gonna happen.

01:20:45

We're supposed to sell the house in March, but I've been looking at how houses are selling. It takes two to four months.

01:20:51

And so that's the average. So we might not get down into Fountain Hills area for two or three months after that, and then stay there for two, three, four months while we're looking for another house.

01:21:01

So we're gonna be situated until then the next year. Well, it's all God's timing, right?

01:21:07

God's timing, yeah. But you know, I wanna talk to you guys about this. See, this is, you know,

01:21:12

I'm so frustrated. I know what we can do as Christians.

01:21:18

I know what we can do as Christians. I have such confidence in the proclamation of the gospel.

01:21:25

I have such confidence in the futility of atheism, the futility of abortion, the futility of homosexuality, the futility of the far left and their moronic ways of thinking.

01:21:35

I have such confidence that Christ is so much more powerful than that, that all we've gotta do is start living for him and driving our hearts for him and praying and seeking his will.

01:21:46

And he will raise up people far more capable than I am, far more capable than Andrew is.

01:21:53

People who are anointed of God to do things that God has ordained for them to do. I don't understand why the

01:21:59

Christian church isn't begging God for this. Instead of going there, you know, getting comfortable and hearing the really nice message and putting in their check, which is fine and stuff.

01:22:09

They're going out to lunch and that's their Christian life. And I'm not saying all Christians are like that, but I just,

01:22:16

I don't understand how you can't be just living for him. And I've had this issue for years and years and years.

01:22:23

You know, one time my wife and I, we were in bed talking about calm. And this is back in, this is like 20 years ago.

01:22:30

And calm is 23 years old. And we were in bed and this was shortly after I'd realized that I could maybe,

01:22:40

I'm thinking through things here, that we could, I could actually go full -time in calm as a potential of doing this, because I started the website, not to do anything with it, but just to prevent me from having to do more work by answering the same thing over and over from emails.

01:22:52

And I put it up on a website. And then after a couple of three years, I was like, wait a minute, this is becoming something. Maybe I could do this full time.

01:22:59

And so I was wondering about this and I was putting the word out, hey, we need donations. Maybe we could do this. I'm giving you information for free.

01:23:06

I've got a master's degree in theology, divinity. I've been studying this stuff. I've been, I've done the footwork.

01:23:12

I just read, study, and test all this stuff out, chat rooms, all this stuff, and then break it down.

01:23:18

And here it is. Would anybody want to support the furthering of this kind of thing? And we're getting so little support.

01:23:25

And I would try real hard, real hard. I'd go talk at churches and see if I could get support there.

01:23:31

I would ask people to help out. And it was roadblock after roadblock.

01:23:38

And we're sitting there in bed one night and I'm bitching about this to my wife. I still remember this.

01:23:44

And I was so frustrated. And I said, you know what? I'm done with this. I'm done trying to, it wasn't trying to serve

01:23:51

God. I'm done trying to deal with this people, which is stupid for me to say, you know, it's just idiocy.

01:23:59

And I think I said something like that. Maybe I didn't. But I'm so frustrated with people and the church. You know, it's

01:24:04

Christianity's hard. I was whining. I said, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm gonna get a secular job and just get a secular or something.

01:24:10

Maybe become a lawyer, maybe become a doctor, maybe become something. And my wife just said, you can't.

01:24:16

I said, why not? She goes, because you got it bad. I never forgot that.

01:24:23

I remember getting angry at her. No, you don't listen to me. I'm serious.

01:24:29

She was right. She was right. And she just kept saying, well, honey, I hear you, but you can never stop.

01:24:36

This is after a half hour of me venting. She goes, you can never stop. I go, no, you're right.

01:24:41

I can never stop. I'll never be able to stop. And how come

01:24:47

Christians aren't more like that? And when I say that, I'm really cautious because I don't want them to be like me.

01:24:54

I'm not the measure of anything. You know, I'm not. But I don't understand how

01:24:59

Christians can't be more than what I sense or see out there.

01:25:05

I'm really cautious to say all this because I don't know how people are. I don't know what their lives are and their frustrations and failures and risks.

01:25:13

But as a whole, I just think we can do more. I really do.

01:25:18

I think we can. I think that what you see is, look, read through the Old Testament and you see Israel constantly wanting to be like the nations around them.

01:25:28

They are a special nation chosen by God. They have his presence marching them through 40 years in the wilderness.

01:25:38

They have all this that they can look to. And yet they want to be like the nations around them.

01:25:44

The Christians do the same thing. We're seeing the same thing where Christians want to have the acceptance of the world.

01:25:50

They want to fit in with the world. Even though they have the truth, they'd rather kind of fit in with the falsehood and compromise.

01:26:00

And it's a constant thing. So I think that's part of it. I think another part of it,

01:26:05

Matt, that we have more in recent days, is we've developed this mindset of like a celebrity

01:26:13

Christianity. I know you hate this, but there are people who look up to you and you're always like, hey, look,

01:26:20

I'm just a guy. But there has become this idea that there's like, that some people are like, oh,

01:26:27

Matt Slick can do this, but I couldn't. You know, going back to what I was teaching yesterday in Philippians 3 .17

01:26:34

here, Paul says to imitate others or imitate me as I follow after Christ.

01:26:43

And Paul's not saying he's some great person that he's doing something that you should be following after him that no one else can do.

01:26:50

No, he's saying, look, if he could do this, someone who used to murder Christians can now be following after Christ the way he is, then you can do this too.

01:26:58

It wasn't because of his education. And the thing I tried to communicate to my class was the fact that I don't care who you are, where you are in your walk.

01:27:10

Every one of us has somebody who we can disciple. If you're a believer, there's someone you can, there's someone who knows less than you about scripture.

01:27:22

I'm a believer. They don't know anything. They don't know God. Share the gospel.

01:27:28

Then great commission, Matthew 28, 19, 20, you go, you make disciples, you baptize.

01:27:35

And then the next thing people forget about is teaching them all things I've taught you. So if you're as a believer, you have somebody you can disciple because as a believer, you can disciple the unbeliever with the gospel.

01:27:49

And then when they believe you teach them everything you've learned, we should always be looking to have a relationship with people who know more than us in their walk and people who we can be an example to.

01:28:02

So we should always have those two relationships. And I think that's really been lacking. We've moved to a model where the pastor does everything and everyone looks to the pastor and he's the one that can do everything.

01:28:14

I'm just a church member. No, you're not. You're a child of God who has been given specific gifts by the

01:28:23

Holy Spirit when you got saved so that you can serve in a way that no one else in your church can do.

01:28:31

And we think like, oh, I'm not able to do this. Yes, you are. If you're a believer in Christ, yes, you are.

01:28:40

And I don't know, Matt, if I've ever shared this with you, but this is kind of, you'll understand this part of it.

01:28:47

When you go to seminary and you kind of walk in thinking you know a lot, you walk out of seminary having a lot of questions realizing how little you really do.

01:28:56

I started off in seminary and I was a typical seminarian thinking I had all the answers.

01:29:02

And we had a woman in the church. I was at work and I said to this one woman, she had a child with cerebral palsy.

01:29:09

Her daughter was only a year or two younger than me, but will never be past the mind of a six -year -old.

01:29:15

She can never walk, she can never write, she can never read. Her mother had great difficulty.

01:29:21

Her mother was a full -time caregiver to her. And even going grocery shopping was hard.

01:29:28

She had to push her daughter's wheelchair while pushing the cart, it wasn't easy.

01:29:35

And she was 23 at the time, I think I was 25, 26. And I just said to the mother,

01:29:41

I said, listen, how about I'm just gonna come over, read scripture to your daughter so you can get a break, like take an hour, have an hour break.

01:29:49

And here I am, I'm thinking like, I'm gonna be the big guy, I'm gonna be teaching her, I'll read scripture,

01:29:55

I'll teach her some scripture. This girl taught me more about what it means to live by faith than anybody that I ever met.

01:30:04

Here's a girl with cerebral palsy who lived every moment completely dependent on Christ.

01:30:11

I mean, I'd walk in thinking I'm gonna teach her something and walk out every week going, man, did I learn a lesson?

01:30:16

I mean, here I'm at a work, I didn't know how I was paying bills. There's a point where some know that I was homeless and she's sitting there and just being like, well, this is what you do, this is what you do.

01:30:27

It was no question with her. She knew how to live by faith. And I learned way more than I ever taught her.

01:30:35

I remember she had a cousin who was a famous football player.

01:30:41

He came into a reunion and I just watched her talk to him in a way that nobody probably ever talked to him before.

01:30:53

And he ended up just, I just remember him, he had two girls on either side, fur coat, you could clearly tell he thought he was somebody.

01:31:05

And she just looks at him and just, and I'm drawing a blank on his name now, but Dion is his first name, but she goes, cousin

01:31:17

Dion, when are you gonna repent of your sinful lifestyle and believe on the

01:31:23

Lord Jesus Christ? And I watch this guy take his arms from the girls, get down on his knees, almost apologetic and be like, cousin

01:31:31

Felicia, I'm really living wrong. I know that I should change. Now I've heard that he became a believer.

01:31:37

I think it's because of the faith of a girl that will never have a mind past a six -year -old, but she had so much she could teach people.

01:31:46

If you think, oh, I have this handicap, I have this thing. Matt has autism, he has

01:31:53

Asperger's, it causes a lot of difficulties in him being able to communicate to people, to socially work with people.

01:32:01

Yet God has used him in other ways, ways that many of us would not be able to do things because he didn't let his handicap get in the way of what

01:32:14

God wanted to do with him. Someone in chat is saying Dion Sanders. I think that was his name. And so that's my encouragement to folks is do not let yourself be talked out of serving

01:32:27

God because you don't think you're a Matt Sleck. You're not someone -

01:32:34

Yeah, well, I agree with that. I mean, really, God has gifted you in a way that Matt and I would never be gifted.

01:32:41

And he gifted you to serve the way he wants you to serve him and reach people that only you can reach.

01:32:47

Matt and I won't be able to reach the people that you can reach because God gifted you to reach them. We should be using those gifts in the body of Christ.

01:32:55

Now I'll get off my soapbox. So what kind of people has he gifted you to reach? Because I would think knowing you and your gifts, it would be people who obviously aren't that bright.

01:33:08

You know, this is coming. So in other words, you, okay, go on. That's right.

01:33:14

Well, actually, we like to rip each other, but you do have some good stuff.

01:33:20

I should take this opportunity to lift you up a little bit because you have a generous heart and you're a giving guy and you want to serve

01:33:25

God. But you're right. God can use anybody. He can use anybody.

01:33:32

Just be used. Did Matt almost like say that he's willing to accept that I buy him meals and he's -

01:33:42

Yeah, you buy me meals. Yeah, it smarts me, jerk. Is somebody recording this so we can document that?

01:33:48

Actually, not only that, but you know what is recorded. Let's listen to, I think this was Brian from the council said this.

01:33:54

Was Andrew the one that helped you get the podcast back up? Yeah, he did get the podcast.

01:34:00

He didn't help me, he did it. Yeah. You think you owe him a dinner for that? Yeah. That was mean.

01:34:12

That's why you got to listen to the council. That's right. Well, you know,

01:34:18

Matt, I think there's also another reason, and this is just my opinion, things I've seen, is that what,

01:34:23

I know you go out into the world on the streets and you put into action your faith. I don't know what anybody else has done in their history.

01:34:31

I'm not going to assume. I've done street witnessing and going to abortion clinics and trying to share positive news and truth up there.

01:34:42

It's not easy. It can be downright scary to go out there and confront truth, even if you're calm and you're collective and when you're doing that,

01:34:52

Satan absolutely rises up, I believe, to cause that conflict to go, oh, no, no, no, this is a little too much.

01:35:01

I can't do this. And I think a lot of people have settled into,

01:35:07

I need to go to church on Sundays and maybe additional days to work on my relationship with God and that's great.

01:35:14

But churches have, a lot of people have sort of stayed in church and that's where we go and that's where we belong and gotten used to helping within the church.

01:35:24

But there are so many other people, it's harder to get into the grungy areas. It's harder to go and talk to prostitutes, drug addicts, whomever it might be, or the guy at work, especially in these days where everybody's gonna get mad at you.

01:35:39

You're gonna get fired. The tolerance, like we mentioned earlier, is no, no, no, this over here's okay and we need to tolerate that and you have to accept it, but Christianity, no, no.

01:35:51

So I think there's a overall social fear too, but like you guys are saying,

01:35:56

I definitely believe 110%. God has given us different strengths and different gifts to go out there and to speak about him and to share his word in the way he equipped you for.

01:36:10

And sometimes it's just going out, like when street witnessing, I wasn't gifted them, with talk like I am now, and I don't know that's a good thing, but praying.

01:36:22

Well, people are actually street ministering and just going to place it, if you're passing by an abortion clinic, pray while you're there, get out of the car even and make a visible showing, just pray and get back into your car.

01:36:36

Making that extra step, I think is huge. I have been past witchcraft shops, cult sort of shops, because I've had a background in that, none of that phases me and I'll walk right in and you better believe

01:36:50

I'm starting to pray. I'll think of something little to purchase, some little pretty thing that doesn't mean anything and tell the woman at the cashier, thank you and God bless you, have a good day and walk out and you're not causing a problem, but it's planting little seeds.

01:37:08

And I'm sorry, I'm just going long -winded there. But yeah, I think people should definitely be more active.

01:37:15

You know, when I go out on the streets and Matt knows I do a lot of street ministry, I love the guys that most people would be scared of.

01:37:23

A guy in a business suit, don't wanna talk to him. Best conversations come with guys, guys with long hair, tattoos, definitely go into them because you get the best conversations.

01:37:33

They're open to talk. The guy in a suit, yeah, forget it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

01:37:40

Ministry, prison ministry. I dress up like a punker. I pierced my left ear to go to the beach with -

01:37:46

I still wanna see a picture of you like that. I'm just saying. I don't know if there are any, I hope there aren't any.

01:37:51

There's all kinds of stuff. Carly, I'm sure you could dig some up. Grab the wifey again. We need to have a word with you.

01:37:57

Yeah, let's - I can tell you a little story. A few years ago, when my daughters were young, okay?

01:38:03

So my wife's going through some old pictures of us all and there's a picture of me back in the day, moving and grooving kind of guy.

01:38:12

And she, my youngest daughter, not my middle daughter, she looks at the picture. She must've been six, five, four, five, six.

01:38:17

I don't know. She goes, who's this? And my wife said, that's your dad. And no lie.

01:38:23

She looks and she looks and she goes, for real, she goes, and you married him? I always knew she had wisdom.

01:38:37

All right. So let's shoot over. I don't know if Cody came in, John came in and then

01:38:44

Seeking the Narrow Way came in. So I - I tried to get Satch Vina to come in.

01:38:49

He wants me to debate Catholics. I go, come on in right now. But he's always got excuses.

01:38:55

He's always got excuses. He's challenged me to go debate Catholic. Okay, come in. I can't. Yeah. Anyway. They're called keyboard warriors.

01:39:02

But, you know, do you know what? John, Cody, Seeking the Narrow Way. If you guys have anything, you can unmute yourself.

01:39:10

Yeah. I was gonna mention what you were talking about earlier, Matt, in regards to why

01:39:17

Christians aren't going out and doing stuff. And just like you just said, Andrew, the guys in the business suit, we are more distracted than ever in any time in history,

01:39:26

I think. And comfort is the enemy of dependence upon God. Absolutely. And so a faith that costs you nothing is worth nothing.

01:39:36

And so you've got people that are comfortable and that they don't go out and do these things.

01:39:43

But I just heard an interview with a guy today. You can look him up. I can give you his name if you want, but he's a

01:39:49

Muslim, or he was a Muslim. He came here from Iran as refugees.

01:39:55

He became a Christian and he left. Actually, he went through Turkey. And anyways, long story short, he came here.

01:40:03

He was in Minnesota recently with a pastor friend speaking at a church.

01:40:09

Well, the pastor's like, hey, let's go to the mall. I wanna show you the great mall. And he's like, okay.

01:40:14

So they go to the mall and they saw probably, I think it was a few

01:40:20

Somali Muslims. And they got to talking with him and stuff.

01:40:26

He's like, hey, you guys are from Somalia and stuff. And they got to talking just a minute. And he's like, yeah, they're like, are you?

01:40:33

Because they saw his ethnicity, he's Iranian. And they said, are you a Muslim? He's like, no, I'm a Christian.

01:40:38

I used to be a Muslim. And they're like, really? They're like, why are you a Christian? So he started telling their testimony.

01:40:44

Well, this lady that was in a hijab overheard them, reported to mall security.

01:40:50

The mall security came, interrupted their conversation, took this guy down to the mall jail and held him for trespassing, soliciting or whatever, held him for three hours, let him go to the bathroom once, wouldn't give him any water or anything until the end.

01:41:10

Like wouldn't let him do anything until the police got there. They treated him terribly. A guy who was sharing his faith with the

01:41:18

Muslims. Yes, they asked why he became a Christian. And he was telling them.

01:41:24

And a Muslim lady overheard it while it's still in litigation. A Muslim lady overheard this.

01:41:30

And because of this, this has become news. And overseas, the

01:41:36

Iranian, I guess, media or whatever over there got a hold of this story and it started persecuting his family because of it.

01:41:45

All sorts of stuff. But anyways, this guy, it's in litigation right now.

01:41:50

So he's, of course. And you see, they have the right. They have the right to be on private property.

01:41:57

A mall is private property. And depending on which district you're in, but in District 9 of Southern California and that whole area, you have the right to be on private property and do various things.

01:42:06

But when a representative of that property asks you to leave, you're obligated to leave. So that's fine.

01:42:12

So if I've done this before, one of the things that I did, I get a little story, but I researched this whole bit.

01:42:19

And what we did, it was a mall in Southern California. I researched this and when they ask you to leave, you gotta leave.

01:42:25

So here's a mall looking down from up high, okay? Looking up high like this, there's a mall and they had parking around it, right?

01:42:33

There's a mall. And so what we did was we got somebody here, here, here, all the way around the mall with tracks, told them not to bring their phones, but only have watches.

01:42:43

And at an exact certain time, start passing out tracks on the car windows of the parking, of the people, cars all around the mall.

01:42:50

And if you, you can get out 600 an hour at that rate. And I timed it and did some research.

01:42:57

And so we had like 10 people. We got, I think 5 ,000 tracks out before everybody was asked to leave.

01:43:05

Because that's all they could do. They could say, you get to leave. Great, you left. But to withhold you, to stop you because you're on private property, their obligation is just to ask you to leave and stop.

01:43:15

To risk, to, it's false imprisonment. They don't have the authority to do that.

01:43:22

So I think, you know, this litigation, so I'd sue that mall for everything I can get out of them.

01:43:28

Yeah, they're in the process there right now, of course. Yeah. But all he was doing was sharing his testimony.

01:43:35

He wasn't open air preaching. He wasn't handing out tracks, anything. We kind of came across some guys, a

01:43:41

Muslim lady overheard it and was offended and reported there. So this guy was whatever.

01:43:47

And so this is when Christians need to support this guy, pay his lawyer bills.

01:43:55

And they hire another lawyer and they sue the crap out of the mall best they can. Then what they do is we take the family and relocate them to another place, keeps everything guarded.

01:44:06

So that, this is what the Christian church should be doing. And we're the

01:44:12

Christian church too. Well, that's your problem. Man, I'd be saying, really? Your family, you don't have a place to stay?

01:44:18

Come into my home. We'll figure something out. Come into my home, we'll figure it out. You know?

01:44:24

It's coming. It's coming for us. Oh, it's coming. Because the Christians aren't doing anything. Yeah. But you know, this is no different than what happened in Nazi Germany.

01:44:33

The Jews didn't think they could get along. And by the time they realized you're not gonna get along with people that wanna kill you, it was too late.

01:44:42

Because they were already too divided and too, you know, those that were willing to stand for the faith were already put away.

01:44:52

And they, I mean, a lot of people are afraid. They, a lot of Christians can see the persecutions coming and know the ones that they're gonna come for first are those that are outspoken.

01:45:03

Yep. And so, yeah, they don't wanna be the outspoken one. You get to see

01:45:09

Jesus faster. Yeah. Was? You know, in the Korean War, there had prisoners and it was the only war where American prisoners never escaped.

01:45:20

The only prison situation. And somebody did some research to find out why. And the

01:45:25

North Koreans did something that was brilliant. All they did was watch the POWs get together to supervise.

01:45:32

They just watched them. And then they would notice who became leaders. And they would just take the leaders and move them to another area and sequester them.

01:45:40

And pretty soon the leaders rose up and that was it. And they didn't have to do anything because there was no organization to resist.

01:45:47

So the left knows, don't give leaders in Christianity any airtime because it validates them.

01:45:53

So what the left is guilty of is misrepresentation by silence. And it's equivalent to lying because what they're gonna do is not present all the facts by omitting certain things.

01:46:05

And so they do this. The Christians have got to be very, very boisterous. They gotta stand up.

01:46:12

I've said this before and I'm gonna say it again. I think what Christians should do, one of the things they should do, get somebody who knows stuff, somebody who's rich, somebody who's got a national recognition, somebody like that, not me.

01:46:22

I don't have any, I don't, you know, but and get a movement going where the result is that on, like, say

01:46:30

September 1st, whatever, of whatever particular year, have it all be set up that everybody with the letter

01:46:37

A, last name starts with the letter A on the first day of that month goes out to their state

01:46:43

Capitol with signs and all day for eight hours, they're out there doing this and holding signs.

01:46:50

We want our country back, we want our constitution back or Christians have rights to, or whatever it is. And then the next day, whoever has last name starts with a

01:46:58

B goes out there and does the same thing. And they don't abstract traffic or do anything, but they just do this all the time.

01:47:05

And I think if everybody did this all over the country, all at the same time for roughly three weeks, cause you know, you got

01:47:12

X, Y, Z names are not too many and things like that, but you could work it out so that it could be stretched over basically, you know, a four week period to cover a whole month.

01:47:23

What's the left gonna do, ignore? Well, maybe they would just do it again and again and become a little bit more aggressive at times.

01:47:29

And we need a national organization to do this because what we would need is people sign up to get signs and they sign up and they pay $5 a month or whatever it is or $20 for membership.

01:47:39

And that money is used for lawsuits to either defend or to sue people. Because you know that the

01:47:45

Christians are gonna be attacked because they have the right to sue people. I would say, sue them, take them to court. And if they do something wrong, then they're gonna pay the price, but we've got lawyers who can help defend them.

01:47:56

And so this kind of a thing, I think it'd be worth doing. One idea that I think is worth a start.

01:48:04

The Christians should be doing things like this. I don't believe in this. Let's sit idle, crap. Let's just pray and do nothing.

01:48:11

I don't believe in that. Until people's livelihoods are in jeopardy, they're not gonna take the time away from their life to do that. You got that right.

01:48:17

And what I think you end up seeing is what many Christians are doing is to keep their livelihood going, they're compromising the gospel.

01:48:26

And thinking that they're gonna be able to keep their livelihood, no. What it just means is they'll get rid of the outspoken ones first, and then they'll come after you, just like Nazis did with the

01:48:35

Jews. They get the outspoken ones, and then they'll go for the rest. So we ended on a positive fight.

01:48:45

Sorry, go ahead. So this is a great way to end on a positive note, Matt. No, but it is a sobering thought for us to realize.

01:48:56

John says there will be an after show for folks who, basically what we do afterwards is the guys over at The Council, and you can go find them on YouTube.

01:49:06

John, is it The Council? Is that the name of the YouTube channel? I forget now. I do have a channel called

01:49:13

The Council, but I also use Atomic Apologetics also.

01:49:20

But I'll just send you the link, and then you guys can - I'll put the link in here, but for folks who want, we should get a regular, which one it's on regularly, so we know where to send folks.

01:49:31

Yeah, exactly. But if folks wanna go over to an after show, what we do in the after show is a little different. The guys over at The Council just open up the mics, and it's a free -flowing conversation.

01:49:41

It's not just one person at a time. I will be talking first, though, as far as a topic, and the topic's gonna be about a particular site that I found that is promoting pedophilia.

01:49:55

So, yeah. You know, I got in trouble when I mentioned that that is what they're trying to desensitize pedophilia, calling it minor attraction.

01:50:08

Was it minor attraction people, MAPS? Yep, mm -hmm. And some group tried to argue that by me grouping them with people that practice homosexuality or transgenders or anyone, the argument is by me putting, you know, the

01:50:23

L -G -T -B -Q -M.

01:50:29

I -A -A -P -M. Yeah, by including the M, they're saying that I'm claiming, this is their argument, and Matt will quickly figure a logical fallacy here, but what they're doing is they quickly say that me including

01:50:42

M for MAPS, minor attractive people, pedophiles, that I'm saying that all homosexuals are pedophiles.

01:50:51

Now, think about that. The GAY stands for men that practice homosexuality.

01:50:59

The L stands for lesbians, for women that practice homosexuality.

01:51:04

So if you follow that logic, if I'm saying that including another letter means you're saying that's true of all of them, then

01:51:11

I guess I'm saying that all of the women are actually practicing male homosexuality, because that's what the

01:51:18

GAY part is, and all the men are actually practicing women sexuality, because that's what the L is, and they're all practicing transgenderism and transsexual, you know, and changing their clothes, and they're all questioning, right?

01:51:34

I mean, it's so illogical, but this gets back to something we said earlier with Matt earlier, right?

01:51:40

They don't think through this stuff. They're so blinded in what they want to attack that they don't think.

01:51:47

So I'm sure that's going to be an interesting discussion. I'll drop that link, as soon as you get that link, drop it here.

01:51:54

So folks, we're glad that you tuned in. Want to encourage folks to come in earlier so that we can get more

01:52:00

Q &A going. Let others know so that you share this out there.

01:52:06

We do turn this into a podcast every week, so you can go search for the podcast Apologetics Live and get the podcast.

01:52:13

It's part of the Christian Podcast Community. That is a community that is going to be opening up soon.

01:52:20

That's going to be opening up to other podcasters. So if you are a podcaster, you can join our

01:52:25

Facebook group on the Christian Apologetics, or sorry, the Christian Podcast Community Facebook group, and we're going to be announcing there when we're opening up.

01:52:36

We'll probably be doing it in January to start taking applications. So we've been doing it a little bit slow there, but this is one of the podcasts that are on there.

01:52:47

So encourage you guys to check those out. Go to karm .org, check out the articles that are coming out there.

01:52:53

You can listen to Matt five days a week on his five days for an hour.

01:52:59

Like Nick, that's probably too much, but. I don't think it's enough. You should all listen to everything

01:53:04

I have to say. Can we ask your wife if she agrees with that statement?

01:53:10

You know what? She actually, believe it or not, after 32 years of marriage and me being on the radio for over 13 years, she still listens to me on the radio every day.

01:53:22

How about that? That is because she has to answer emails. What was that,

01:53:29

Kat? I said, bless her heart. She's got to listen to you 24 seven.

01:53:35

We can tune you out. It's even worse because she actually sits right across from him all day, so it's.

01:53:42

Yeah, I'm like, hon. And she has to submit to him? Oh, no. I know, something's wrong with her. I think the reason she listens,

01:53:50

Matt, is because she has to answer the emails when they come in. But so few are from the radio show, just because of the website.

01:53:59

But I asked her, I said, why would you listen? I said, you hear me all the time.

01:54:04

Why do you do that? She goes, I don't know, I just like listening. I learn stuff. I'm like, okay. Aw. She actually likes my preaching, she said.

01:54:13

I'm like, oh, that's different. Okay, that's good. I thought she was intelligent. Yeah, because no one else likes it. I mean, that's so weird.

01:54:20

See, I'm liking Kat more and more. Well, see, that's another thing, is

01:54:25

I always used to, when I became a baby Christian, women are supposed to be meek, right? And I'm like, that's not me, that's not me.

01:54:33

But then I realized, no, no, no, meek in a different manner. And God made me exactly who

01:54:39

I am, and that's to be too outspoken and mouthy. Ooh, hey, Jason in chat,

01:54:46

Matt, has a great idea. I think I know what I gotta get meek for Christmas. I just wrote,

01:54:53

Jason, that's an awesome idea. I think you should do it. Jason said, Matt's wife needs to get a

01:54:58

Nerf gun so she could shoot at him. That is awesome. Great, okay.

01:55:04

I'm gonna get her one, for real. You don't need to get, okay, you have the ad, go to karm .org, you can get the address.

01:55:10

Donate to them. Donate it. Buy her a Nerf gun. I'm gonna get her a Nerf gun. I'm gonna get her a

01:55:15

Nerf gun. No, she needs a variety of them. She'll have like a semi -automatic or automatic

01:55:22

Nerf one, something, because. Matt, just promise us that if she gets a Nerf gun for Christmas, that when we're doing this show live, we can see her firing at you out there.

01:55:34

I think it's a good idea, because she's mobile, but she's kind of not, and I'll be obnoxious to her.

01:55:41

Say, you know, hey, honey, can you make me a sandwich? And I get that look, because she's just, you know, she's beat up, you know, everything she's gone through.

01:55:48

It'd be, she could take a Nerf gun and go, boom. You know, it'd be great for her. The cats would be walking, they'd be like, bink.

01:55:56

Oh man, that is awesome. Jason, that's a great idea. I just dropped, I just dropped the link in.

01:56:04

I don't know why it always does this Facebook link, but I'll try to clean that link up. But I just dropped the link here for Matt.

01:56:12

If you want to head out, go over to the, there we go. That's a better, I don't know, let me clean that.

01:56:17

I think it will. I'll go there for a little bit. Okay, I'm over there. Bye, see you later. See you guys later. The folks here are trying to get into the after show, and then

01:56:25

I'll drop it into the link for YouTube. So we appreciate you coming in. We do this as an educational thing for those who want to learn apologetics.

01:56:35

It's also an opportunity for people that have questions that you want answered. You got stumped with something.

01:56:41

Someone asked you something you didn't know an answer to. That is what we're doing this for. We're doing this so that you can grow in your apologetics, so you can defend the faith where you are with the people you come in contact with.

01:56:55

And so if you're encouraged, think about supporting us by sharing this. That means a lot to us.

01:57:01

Coming in and asking questions and letting others know about it. You can support us online as well.

01:57:07

In the show notes, we'll have links for the Patreon page that you can go. Just go to patreon .com

01:57:13

slash Striving for Eternity, and you can support this work. Different ways you can support us, both at CARM and at Striving for Eternity.

01:57:22

So until next Thursday, just remember to go out and strive to make today. an eternal day for the glory of God.