October 16, 2019 Show with Andrew Smith on “Today in Church His-Story: The Martyrdom of Latimer & Ridley (& Why We Must Never Forget Their Sacrifice)”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on

this 16th day of October 2019.

And I'm thrilled to have back on the program Dr. Andrew Smith, who is pastor of

Christ Reformed Community Church in St. John's, Florida, and he's also the host of a

podcast called Today in Church History, and history is spelled H -I -S -D -A -S -H

-T -O -R -Y.

And we are going to be discussing today the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley, and why we must

never forget their sacrifice.

And that martyrdom took place on this date in history, October 16th.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Andrew Smith.

For having me on again, brother, I really appreciate it.

And first of all, we are intending to have you back on monthly,

sometimes more than once a month, to address a date in church

history that should be remembered.

Tell us about this podcast.

Well, the podcast was birthed at the end of last year, just in my mind, in my heart, as

I was working on my doctorate of ministry degree at Master's Seminary and trying to

think through maybe some of the ways that I could put to use the many years of

education that I've been blessed to receive.

And preaching and history, and so I was looking for a way

to kind of tie those two things together,

rather than writing articles, although I do write some articles on my website.

I thought that a podcast in our day and age would be a better means to reach more people.

And so I started it at the beginning of this year, and really shot

for a five to ten minute, just a small little kind of lunch hour

listen occurs on that

particular day in which I do the broadcast, and then apply it

with various scripture passages for Christians today.

And I know that the podcast is archived at heartofflame

.org, that's H -E -A -R -T, the letter A, F -L -A -M -E dot org.

Is that where folks can hear it live also, or how do they hear this program?

Yeah, unfortunately it's not a live program, as yours is, you can go to our

website and get all the archived copies of the podcast, 33

at this point, or if you're familiar with Apple iTunes, which most of the listeners probably

are, you can search for today in church history.

Again, history is spelled H -I -S hyphen S -T -O -R -Y at Apple iTunes,

and you can listen that way as well.

Okay, now to let our listeners know, for the sake of our listeners who did not hear you during your

previous interviews on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, tell our listeners about Christ Reformed Community

Church in St. John's, Florida.

Well, Christ Reformed is a church that I'm very, very blessed to also be

establishing past.

We started back in September of 2015, me and my wife and another couple,

and since then the church has, spiritually and numerically,

we're able to minister to the community and minister to those who...

And we are basically an independent, non -denominational, Reformed church.

So we would be confessional, we have baptism,

we're a Reformed Baptist, we have quite a few Presbyterians that are

part of our congregation, and so our church is unique in the sense that

Christians and Baptists tend to get along pretty well.

And Christ Reformed Community Church, for those of our listeners that want to look up

that website, it's christreformedcc .com, christreformedcc

.com, and I've just been informed

that there is a loud hissing noise from a listener in Ireland who

said that she's listening to the program and there's a loud hissing noise.

I'm sorry, there's nothing else I can do right now, I don't understand why that is occurring, but if you could please be

patient and just deal with that as much as you can.

The date that we are addressing today, October 16th,

first of all, what year were Latimer and Ridley martyred?

So the year was 1555, so the middle of the 16th.

1555, and so tell us about these two

brave souls that would rather be executed than deny

their precious faith.

Having comments, beginning with the fact that they would fit in that category that historians

typically call the Marian martyrs, and there were three of them that were executed

around the same time.

Of course, Ridley and Latimer were executed together back -to -back on this burnt at the same

stake, and then a couple of weeks later, Thomas Cranmer, the Archbishop of Canterbury, was

also executed in the same exact spot, and as a matter of fact, he witnessed from the

rooftop of a nearby building the execution of Ridley and Latimer, and that was sort of

the motivation of the Roman Church to try to get him to recant his Protestantism, which he actually did

recant his Protestantism, but then he recanted his recantation later on, as we famously know,

and was executed and died being a Protestant.

And requested that his hand that signed his original

recantation of the Protestant faith, that that hand be burned first.

Yeah, yeah, all the accounts say that he actually put his hand in the fire, his

right hand in the fire, and said this was the hand that committed the offense of denying the precious faith, and so

it will be the part of my body that burns first.

And by all accounts, that indeed did take place.

But the Marian martyrs were, there were more than just Ridley, Latimer, and Cranmer.

There was about 300 that were burnt at the stake, and there was another, you know, I don't know how

many that died in prison as a result of being imprisoned by Queen Bloody Mary, who was the

daughter of King Henry VIII and his first wife, Catherine of Aragon.

She was intensely Roman Catholic, and really, after all the reforms that had taken

place in England over a period of about 20 years, when she became the queen, she tried to reverse all of those things.

And it was somewhat of a counter -reformation led to

all of these martyrs of the faith that we look up to today.

And the names, the full names of these two individuals to whom we are paying tribute today

are Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley.

Why don't you tell us about these men before we even get to the point of why they were executed?

Sure.

I'll start with Latimer.

He was the older of the two.

We don't know exactly what year he was born, but it was the latter half of the 15th century, so

somewhere between 1480 and 1491, most historians say

he was born.

Like Nicholas Ridley, they were both educated at Cambridge.

Hugh Latimer was educated at Christ College, and he received three degrees.

So they were both very learned men.

And for Latimer's part, he was intensely against Protestantism.

In fact, his oral defense for one of his degrees, one of the three degrees that he received,

was basically a polemic against Martin Luther, and specifically against Philip Melanchthon's

teachings on justification by faith alone.

But just in God's providence, it was through that oral defense that a man named Thomas

Bilney, who was listening to this defense, was sympathetic to Protestantism and took Latimer by his

side and convinced him that these Reformed principles were actually closer to the Bible than

what the current Roman Church was teaching.

And so Latimer changed from a fierce opponent of the Reformed faith, or

Protestantism, to become an ardent supporter of it.

And the thing that helped Latimer out more than anything is that he was a very good preacher.

He was a popular preacher, and I don't say that in the sense that he tickled people's ears, but

he had a certain wit about his sermonic delivery.

He spoke in plain language that the people could understand.

And so he was able to gain a hearing just based upon his ability to communicate

effectively in his day.

But he was licensed with 12 other preachers by Cambridge College to basically go in a

circuit around England and to preach.

And eventually he gained the hearing of King Henry VIII.

He became an advisor to King Henry VIII under the influence of Thomas

Cranmer, who encouraged that relationship.

And Latimer also became chaplain to Anne Boleyn, who was the second wife of King Henry VIII,

who was a Protestant.

And as I said, he was known primarily for his preaching, and even

had the ability to have humor in his sermons.

Historians say that he preached up to two hours long.

So he preached long sermons, but during that day it wasn't extremely uncommon for

Reformed people to do that.

And then Nicholas Ridley was about 20 years younger than Hugh Latimer.

And Ridley was born near Newcastle, England in Northumberland.

He was also educated at Cambridge much later than Latimer.

And Ridley is considered to be the scholar of the two, although

by no means do historians think that Latimer wasn't also a scholar.

It's just that Ridley not only was educated at Cambridge, but he also went off to Paris and studied there.

And he held many educational posts at Cambridge College.

He was the proctor, I think it was, of Penbroke College.

But Ridley was also a good preacher.

He was appointed as the king's chaplain.

So Latimer was the chaplain for Anne Boleyn and was an advisor to King Henry VIII.

But Nicholas Ridley was the king's personal chaplain.

He was also the Bishop of London, which was a very, obviously, prestigious position.

Latimer also held a bishopric as well.

And so both of these men, they were actually imprisoned in the same room along with Cranmer in the Tower

of London when they were arrested by the time that Queen Mary came to the throne.

And so they knew each other before that, but they really developed a bond there as

they were in the Tower of London.

And we can only imagine what sort of prayers they prayed and what sort of scriptures they quoted to each other,

as they inevitably knew they were all going to be executed for their faith in the one and only true gospel of Jesus Christ.

So tell us a bit about the religious turmoil that had

been taking place in England, in the Church of England prior to this.

The Church of England seemed to be, for quite a while,

swinging back and forth like a pendulum from Roman Catholicism to Protestantism

and even different forms of Protestantism, where you had even the Puritans who

eventually chose to depart from the Church of England because they

themselves were being oppressed for the

purity of the stances they took regarding biblically faithful belief and practice.

But tell us a little bit in more detail about the pendulum of

Romanism to Protestantism and back to Romanism that seemed to be plaguing the Church of England, which

actually led to the deaths of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley.

Yeah, well, I appreciate the question.

It's not an easy question to answer, only because of the complications of

not only history and theology, but just even genealogy.

I mean, you're talking about King Henry VIII, who had multiple wives.

Some of them were Protestant, some of them were Catholic.

And King Henry VIII, it's been said by one historian that he would go through theological moods

like he went through his wives.

In other words, he wasn't a man necessarily driven by the conviction of Scripture or

driven by Protestant principles.

He was a religious man.

He took Mass three times a day, and so it wasn't that he wasn't religious.

He was part of that religious climate of the day.

But he was all about power.

And so he was actually an ardent defender of

the Roman Catholic faith, and him and Martin Luther butted heads.

In fact, didn't he have that official title of defender of the faith while Roman Catholic?

He did.

Yeah, he received that title in 1521.

Of course, the Pope can only give that title to someone, and the Pope gave it to Henry VIII.

And the reason the Pope gave it to him is because Henry wrote a defense of the seven sacraments,

in which, you know, Luther was arguing there are only two sacraments, Lord Supper and Baptism, and Henry VIII,

with the help of some other scholars, a polemic against Martin

Luther that said, no, there are seven sacraments.

There's confirmation, there's penance, there's ordination, there's the last rites, there's marriage, and

the Pope was so proud of Henry VIII that he entitled him defender of the faith.

But Henry's problems were more about the fact that he couldn't have an heir to the throne.

That was really his issue.

So his first wife, Catherine of Aragon, couldn't give him a son.

He did have a daughter by her by the name of Queen Mary, who later became Queen Bloody Mary, and

as I'm sure we'll talk about later, this divorce or annulment from

Catherine of Aragon really, I think, settled in the heart of Queen Mary a resistance

toward Protestantism because King Henry VIII, her father, had divorced her mother.

But he sought to get annulment of this marriage by appealing to texts

like Leviticus 20, 21, which said you're not supposed to take your brother's wife, and Catherine of

Aragon was, in fact, his dead brother's former wife.

And so he tried to appeal to the Pope to annul the marriage based upon that so that he could marry

someone else so he could have a male heir.

So again, Henry was motivated more by political things in terms of how his legacy

was going to be carried on through the throne rather than theological convictions and priorities.

And so he did end up marrying Anne Boleyn.

His marriage was not annulled by the Pope, but he went ahead and divorced her anyway.

And with the Act of Supremacy in about the year 1534, he was declared the Supreme Head of the

Church of England.

And Chris, I don't know if you've heard kind of the legend that

was used by some of the scholars surrounding Henry VIII as to the legitimacy of naming King Henry VIII

the Supreme Head of the Church of England.

Are you aware of the legend that surrounds that?

Just by that description, no.

So there was a legend current in that day, and who knows, maybe even King Henry VIII

scholars made this story up.

But the legend said that the first church planted was actually not planted

in Rome by the Apostle Peter, but that it was planted in England by Joseph of

Arimathea.

And so the argument was that every other country in the world needs to submit to the Pope, but England

doesn't need to submit to the Pope.

England is different because England had the first church, and therefore the church in

England in some odd, convoluted way actually owed her allegiance to the

king first above the Pope, which is an interesting part of history.

And those were the type of arguments that were ultimately used by King Henry.

So he was not trying to start a Protestant Reformation by

the things and decisions he made.

It was more motivated by his marriages and trying to get an heir to the throne.

In fact, I have heard from people who seem to be very knowledgeable.

In fact, one of the individuals who told me this during an interview

is a Thomas Cranmer scholar.

He's considered to be one of the foremost experts on the life

and legacy of Thomas Cranmer, if not the most knowledgeable living

expert.

Ashley Null, Dr. Ashley Null, who is an Anglican teaching in Berlin, Germany.

But he has written on Cranmer, and he said that

Archbishop Cranmer, although he was friends with King Henry VIII, and although

King Henry VIII is the one that had appointed him, he never believed in the

genuineness of King Henry's conversion.

He viewed him as remaining a Roman Catholic, and on

Henry's deathbed, according to Dr. Null, Thomas

Cranmer was holding Henry's hand and said, if you believe in

justification by faith alone, please squeeze my hand.

And apparently Henry did.

Whether that was a sign of true conversion or not, I don't know.

But that is the story that I've heard.

I don't know if you have heard that as well.

No, I haven't heard that story.

But I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility, just because, like you

said earlier, the pendulum swing back and forth with Henry.

I mean, even after instituting these reforms that were

in support of Protestantism, after he broke away from the Pope in

1534 with the Act of Supremacy, a few years later, after he won all the

support of these reformers, the six articles came out, which were basically a

capitulation back to Romanism.

And people like Hugh Latimer actually resigned their posts as bishop and kind of fell out

with King Henry VIII because he was fearful that this Reformation was going too far.

And so he was a man, and I'm not a psychologist, and I'm not going to try to be one, but

he was certainly a man who had a lot of internal issues going on with his

temperament and with wanting power and all of those sorts of things.

So I wouldn't put it past him at all just to swing back and forth, and who knows what happened

at his deathbed.

Now, lead us up to the point where

Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley knew that they were in trouble with the authorities in the

Church of England.

And what were the specific reasons, doctrinally

specifically, or matters of practice, that were really getting

the authorities hot under the collar, if you will, and determined to either get them to repent of

these things or to execute them?

Well, initially, as I said, Latimer especially gained the

support of Henry VIII because he preached against the clergy

and the abuses of the clergy.

There was a sermon series that he preached at St. Paul's Cross entitled On the Plow

in about the year 1547, and this was later on.

But he had a refrain in it where he said, the devil is never out of his diocese.

And that was kind of Latimer's...

He was a lot like Luther in attacking the corruption of the clergy, and

King Henry VIII liked this.

So in that sense, King Henry VIII supported Latimer.

Latimer would say things like, the priests are always lording and loitering,

and because their lording and loitering have come up, it makes preaching go down.

They pamper their ponches, they munch in their mangers, they moil in their mansions,

which is all very colorful language to suggest that the clergy just fed themselves food and were

gluttonous and weren't worth anything.

That really appealed to King Henry VIII, but what put pressure on

people like Latimer and Ridley was ultimately their view of justification by faith alone,

ultimately their views against images, things

like that, their stance against transubstantiation,

which King Henry VIII really...

He gave them a long leash on these things, but these were issues that, when Queen Mary

ascended the throne, she had no toleration for, because she was staunchly

Catholic.

So with King Henry VIII, when he was reigning, there was a longer leash with

Latimer and Ridley.

Latimer was imprisoned briefly under King Henry VIII's rule, but after King

Henry VIII died, Edward VI came to the throne, who was the son of King Henry

VIII's third wife, Jane Seymour, and she was an ardent Protestant, and so

that's when you start to see things really pick up in terms of the

Reformation picking up in England.

But it wasn't until Queen Mary came to the throne, she didn't like the teaching against

transubstantiation, she didn't like the teaching against purgatory, she didn't like the teaching against images.

For example, Nicholas Ridley, when he was the Bishop of London, he removed the altars

in the churches of London, and he replaced them with communion tables.

And of course, the reason he did that is because he did not believe that Christ was re -sacrificed at

the Lord's Supper, that this was a table feast for all of God's family to partake in.

So those are just some of the examples, the normal doctrines that

Martin Luther himself upheld were the same evangelical doctrines that Ridley and Latimer

upheld, and more ultimately, they were ultimately killed for holding up to these, for these truths.

So when Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley were given the option

to either recant their beliefs or be executed, it was really

not one or two, it was basically a litany of beliefs that would fall under the umbrella of

reformational teaching, and of course,.

You and I would call it biblical teaching.

Yeah, I'd say that that is true, except for the fact that if you

read the records of the final hearing of Latimer and Ridley, because they were actually tried

at the same time, so they were not only executed at the same time, but they were tried at the same time, and

the main charge brought up against them is that they did not hold the transubstantiation.

That was the primary thing, and when Latimer was asked to recant,

or when he was asked at that same trial, which I think was in the

year 1554, because they were arrested in 1553 and then executed in 1555,

Latimer said, I don't owe you a response.

If you want to know what I believe, then just read the New Testament.

I mean, that's basically what he said, and he just refused to, he was not like

Cranmer when it came to the end of his life.

He was very strong.

And resolute, and...

You mean Cranmer in his first threat?

Temptation.

Yes, exactly.

Well, we're going to go to our first station break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson

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We'll be right back after these messages with more of Andrew Smith.

Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of.

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We are now back with our discussion with Dr. Andrew Smith, pastor of Christ

Performed Community Church in St. John's, Florida.

We are discussing today in church history, the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley and why we must

never forget their sacrifice.

If you have a question for our guest, Dr. Andrew Smith, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Can you tell us, Andrew, about any of the conversations that

took place between Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley during their imprisonment and

right up to their execution?

And also, perhaps, if you could tell us something about the reaction of the crowds observing this.

Well, I'll start with the latter.

Question because I think it's the more important question.

Something interesting occurred when these three Oxford martyrs, as they're called, Ridley,

Latimer, and Cranmer, were burnt at the stake

in 1555.

But the crowds were so in

witnessing this, and especially witnessing his

Protestantism, and then turn around right before he's executed and recant

his newfound Catholicism again.

All of this really created some momentum for the Protestants.

I believe that Queen Mary would have been well on her way of instituting

Roman Catholicism as the primary religion in England if Cranmer would have

kept the Protestant faith.

But when he changed that, when he went back to Protestantism right before he died and put his hand

famously in the fire and said, this is the fire that signed my denial of the Protestant faith.

I should have never done it, and so this hand is going to be the first to burn.

When he did that, something happened with those who had seen Ridley and Latimer burnt at the stake and those who had

witnessed Cranmer burnt at the stake.

And what happened was they became national heroes.

They became patriots, and they became spiritual patriots, if I could use that language.

So much so that in the year, I think it was 1558, or the latter part of the 1550s,

England made a new law that from that day forward, no more

heretics or alleged heretics would be burnt at the stake publicly.

They would be burnt at the stake behind the walls of the prison.

And then when you take into account the fact that Cranmer, witnessing his brothers that

he had been in the same cell with until the end,

witnessing that as they're being burned and the things that they were saying back and forth to one

another, most famously in Foxe's Book of Martyrs, Latimer said to Ridley, as the

flames were being lit, play the man, so

by God's grace in England, as I trust, shall never be put out.

Things like that that are being said when you're being put to death, the confidence in the gospel that they had, the

relaxed conversation that they were having between one another even as the faggots were being lit,

the wood around them was being lit, all of this was encouragement

to the people of England regarding the credibility of the Protestant faith.

Here are these men who have such a strong faith, they refuse to recant.

And I don't want to say every execution, but certainly at many of them, if not most

of them, and something that did occur at Ridley and Latimer's execution was the preaching of a sermon.

A sermon preached by a Dr. Smith

ported Roman Catholic teaching, and the sermon was to the crowd to discourage them from being Protestant,

and the sermon was also designed, this 15 -minute sermonette, was designed to

try to get the ones executed, in this case Latimer and Ridley, to recant their faith

at the very end.

So things in the sermon were said such as, you know, these people think that they have a genuine

faith, but it's not genuine because they're not part of the Roman Catholic Church, and they're getting ready to

enter an eternity of hell.

But Latimer and Ridley's faith held strong until the end, even under this

immense pressure, and with crowds watching this, it had a huge impact on

the momentum that the Protestant Reformation had, and by that point there was no turning back in terms of

the momentum that it.

Picked up.

Praise God.

Now, is there any record of specifically why Hugh

Latimer said to his friend Nicholas Ridley, play the man?

Could it be that Nicholas Ridley was weeping, and he was in a

loving way saying, man up?

Or what do you know about that?

Well, that's one assumption.

When they lit the fire, they lit Ridley

first.

Ridley's feet they lit.

Wood was not, and who knows, maybe this was even done on purpose to

cause more torture.

Pius' waist.

So that basically Ridley was being burnt in his lower

extremities, and he felt that the whole time.

And the fire was not getting up to his head, whereas Latimer, from my understanding, his

fire was lit later, but he was consumed because the flames went all the

way up to his head.

And so it could be that in the midst of that fire at Ridley's lower

extremities, before Latimer was being lit up, that he made that statement, play the man, to

encourage him.

But Mercy Ridley, in the midst of this, Ridley's

brother -in -law, who was there at Ridley's neck, in

hopes that he would die quicker.

Coming up to, someone moved an ember or a stick,

and the gun sack exploded, and Ridley finally

left this world and entered the present.

When you think about dying by being burnt,

burnt alive, that is a most torturous death, I think.

And so who knows why Latimer made the statement.

We know he made it, and we know that Ridley stood strong until the end.

Ridley was calling out, have mercy on me, God have mercy, receive my soul.

So until the very end, Ridley certainly did not recant.

He did not capitulate whatsoever to Roman Catholicism.

And what makes this remarkable, or just one of the many

things that makes it remarkable, in light of

the 21st century ecumenism

that has been going on even before the 21st century, where peace

at any price seems to be the motto of many churches, or at least professing churches,

these men were willing to die for things

that today you have thoroughgoing Protestants that

believe in the same things you and I do.

They perhaps even hold to the same confessions we do.

But they look at a view of transubstantiation, that the

Eucharist during the Lord's Supper, the bread and wine, the elements truly become

the body, soul, and divinity of Christ.

They are Christ, and therefore are to be worshipped.

They view this as, well, you know, it's just differences of opinion, but we're still brothers, and

why make a big fuss over this?

I just find it utterly remarkable that you have men who are willing to

die, and if this is indeed a trivial matter, or at least just a

secondary or tertiary matter, then they should have just kept their mouths shut.

They should have just said, I have these private theological explorations I'm going

through, and I'm just going to not make waves over this,

especially since it's going to lead to a torturous, painful, agonizing death,

so let's just keep this to ourselves, and we'll bring it up maybe at private Bible

studies.

They didn't do that, and I think that there's a reason they did it.

It's because these issues are far more grave and intensely important

than many in modern -day Christendom think they are.

I couldn't agree with you more, Chris, and I think that's such an apt word in terms of application.

I'll have to remember that if I do a Today in Church History podcast, to make that application that

you articulated so well.

Two things come to mind.

You know, the difference between Ridley and Latimer and evangelical Christians today

is a matter of courage, and courage is motivated by conviction.

Courage is not motivated by your personality, it's not motivated by your personal strength, character, or mind.

It's motivated by conviction.

These men truly believed what they preached, and in fact, Latimer said the best way

that you can know whether or not these priests are hypocrites is by the way they behave.

You want to know what they believe, well look at their behavior, and that

if you truly believe something, you ought to be willing to die for it.

And there's one story about Latimer that I need to share.

In fact, if you could bring that story up right when we come back, because we have to go to our midway break.

We have to go to our midway break right now.

It's the longer the normal break.

Please be patient with us.

This is a longer break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, who airs this program twice a

day, requires a longer break in the middle of the show so that they can obey FCC

regulations and localize Ryan Tripp and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, by airing

their own public service announcements during this break and other things that they air that localize the program

to that area.

So while they air their public service announcements and other local things,

we air our globally heard commercials during this break.

So please use this time wisely and write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them

because that will result in us remaining on the air.

You cannot exist without our advertisers, so please try to

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But write down as much of the information as you can from our advertisers, but also write down questions

for Dr. Andrew Smith about the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley on this

date in history, October 16, 1555.

Don't go away.

Oh, and by the way, that email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Before we return to Andrew Smith and our commemoration of the martyrdom

of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley on this date in history, October 16,

1555, I just have a few announcements to make in regard to upcoming events that I hope

that you will attend, the first of which is the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship

on the Doctrines of Grace, and that's being held Friday, November 1st, 7 to 9 p

.m., and Saturday, November 2nd, 10 a .m. to 4 p .m. at the Hope Reformed Baptist Church

of Quorum, Long Island, New York.

I will be there, God willing, and it's going to be a great time, no doubt, not only hearing

excellent messages from gifted pastors, but also to fellowship

with the brethren there, and this will feature pastors from different

local churches on Long Island that are a part of the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship, all

lovers of the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

So if you would like to join me there, you can go to the website reformedrookie .com,

that's reformedrookie .com.

You can also go to hopereformedli .net,

hopereformedli .net, or

you can call 631 -696 -5711, 631 -696 -5711.

Then, coming up in December, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, I am

going to be packing up my bags again, heading back to New York, this time to New York City, for the

Foundations Conference.

This is a conference of sermonaudio .com, and I love the fact that they're having it

this time around in the heart of the Christmas season, because Manhattan is my favorite place to be during the Christmas season.

This is a conference only open to men in ministry leadership.

A lot of that has to do with the size of the venue.

It's a very small venue that can seat less than 200 people, so they restricted attendance to men in ministry leadership.

If you fit that category, whether you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, I hope you

join me there.

The speakers include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Paul Washer, Rev. Jeff Thomas, Rev. Armin Tomasian,

who I think is going to be a household name amongst Reformed Christians over the next decade, Richard Colwell Jr.,

and Andrew Quigley.

If you want to join me there, go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com, and remember

that's Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in Manhattan.

Then in January, you've been hearing the ads for it already by Todd Friel and my friend

James White, but I can't wait to pack up my bags and head down south this time

for the G3 Conference.

This will be my fourth G3 Conference.

The G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and it will be held once again at the Georgia

International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta, and

the theme is Worship Matters.

I just love this conference, and I love maintaining my exhibitors booth there because there are thousands of people there

that are discovering my show, and also many people,

dozens of people every year come up to me to tell me how much they already love listening to my show.

I've also gotten new sponsors by virtue of maintaining my exhibitors booth there.

I've gotten new guests, and of course, as I've already said, new listeners.

It's well worth your time to register for an exhibitors booth if you

have a business, a parachurch organization, or anything else that you want to promote to the Body of Christ in large numbers.

The speakers at the G3 Conference are always extraordinary, and the list is always

long, really long.

Once again, we have Dr. Stephen J. Lawson speaking at the G3 Conference 2020.

We have Anthony Mathenia, who happens to be Paul Washer's pastor.

We have my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

My friend Phil Johnson, who's been interviewed on this program more than any other guest.

He is the Executive Director of John MacArthur's Ministry.

Grace to you.

My friend Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio.

My friend Dr. Tom Astle, Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the Calvinistic ministry

in the Southern Baptist Convention, who was just my guest yesterday.

We have Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, the President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the

late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries.

We have Derek Thomas, the world -renowned Presbyterian author and pastor and conference

speaker.

Kosti Hinn, who you've been hearing about.

He is the nephew of the notorious charlatan and heretic Benny Hinn.

And Kosti has renounced the word of faith heresies of his youth and renounced the ministry of his own

uncle.

And he spends much of his time warning both the body of Christ and the lost about

the dangers of the word of faith movement for its deadly and

deceptive and damning heresies.

There are many other speakers that are on the roster at this conference and, of course, the latest addition

is John MacArthur himself.

I just can't wait to be there because I have considered John MacArthur one of my greatest

heroes, greatest living heroes of the faith.

And although I've interviewed him on the show and although he's written a phenomenal endorsement, a

commendation for Iron Trump and Zion Radio, which is posted very proudly on my website, I have never

met him, nor have I been in the same room when he is preaching, or the same building.

So I'm looking forward so much to being there with the addition of John MacArthur.

Looking so much forward even more, I should say, to being there.

And so if you want to join me there, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

And as I said, if you have a business, a parachurch ministry, or something else that you want to promote to the body of

Christ, please consider registering for an exhibitor's booth just like I will be manning.

And they have typically over 5 ,000 people there every year at the G3 Conference.

With the addition of John MacArthur, I say they're going to have over 6 ,000 people.

That is a guess on my part, but it's an educated guess knowing of the prominence of Dr. MacArthur

in our day and age.

He is a man whose audience seems to be growing rapidly even though

he never candy coats anything that he teaches or preaches or writes about.

So go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and register to attend, and

register for an exhibitor's booth if it applies to you.

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If you are not a member of a local bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against

God, you have to rectify that situation.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world so I can help you find a church and I have

already helped many people all over the world find churches near them who have written to me

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So please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest Dr. Andrew Smith on the theme

the martyr excuse me the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley and why we must never forget their

sacrifice.

That's the martyrdom of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley on this date in history

October 16, 1555.

And again our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and before the break as you

probably remember Dr. Andrew you were going to tell us a story.

Yeah just a just a real quick story about Latimer because

I think both of these stories are an observation that during their

day it was almost second nature for Christians to be courageous and stand up for the faith

whereas today it's almost the opposite is true which is unfortunate.

But on one occasion the story goes of Latimer who was who was preaching I think it was in the early

1520s so well before he was extremely well known well before he was even a bishop of Worcester and

he started to preach and in walked their diocese that he was

in and in mid -sentence not only the text

he was going to preach from but he changed the entire sermon.

He went to a verse somewhere in Hebrews that speaks about the high priest I think it's Hebrews 9 and he

began to say you know all the corruptions that were going on with priests and bishops and

clergy and clearly it was directed against this bishop who had just walked in but the

bishop was actually won over by such courage and

asked Latimer if he would preach a sermon similar to that against the teachings of Martin Luther

and that's when Latimer said no you know I can't do that I hold to what Luther teaches.

The other story is about Ridley.

Ridley like Latimer did not back away from confrontation when it came to standing for the

truth but he pursued it.

In fact when Queen Mary ascended the throne he went to see her uninvited

which is not something you normally do to a queen but he used kind of his influence and connection to get into

the court because both Ridley and Latimer were preachers of the court at that time and he

demanded an interview with Queen Mary and in that interview Ridley asked her if

she would please not neglect the Word of God and she replied in a

smart way well I can't tell you what God's Word is but I know that God's Word in my

father's day is not God's Word today which is another way of saying that King Henry VIII you know

turned Protestant and I'm definitely not Protestant and then she said I've never read any of your books

Mr. Ridley and I'm glad that I haven't and I never will read any of them and he greatly offended

her in that meeting and ultimately it led to his arrest because

he sort of red flagged himself in that meeting in terms of his commitments and the fact that he wasn't going to change his

position on some key doctrines and but the point is both of these men pursued

confrontation and I mean that in a good way I don't mean unnecessary confrontation on tertiary matters

but primary matters concerning the gospel concerning the Lord's Supper the nature of the Lord's Supper concerning

justification by faith alone concerning the ability for the people to read the Bible in

their own language with which both Ridley and Latimer greatly endorsed these sorts of

things are things Christians should stand for and it it discourages me today

when I see well -known Christian leaders within large denominations endorsing

oh yeah when they know.

Better.

Oh yeah and I hate to say it but somebody whose writings have blessed me enormously

has been guilty of that time and time again.

And of course I'm talking about J .I. Packer if and I say that reluctantly.

But I think that we can't hide things about people in our own theological camp.

When we expose the erroneous actions and heretical beliefs and teachings of people

outside of our camp we've got to be clear about what's going on among us.

And as much as Dr. Packer has been a phenomenal blessing to the

body of Christ he's also endorsed some disturbing things and and had even got

raised the ire of the late R .C. Sproul and other folks

Dr. John MacArthur and Michael Horton and others who were upset

about his being very soft on the issues that

divide Roman Catholics and Protestants not not necessarily in his own books but in his ways that he

interacted with them.

And he signed the ECT document the evangelicals and Catholics together.

So very very troubling.

Yeah.

But uh we do have a question.

Uh let's see here we have Christian in western Suffolk county Long Island

New York and Christian asks were there any Roman Catholics of

significance that you know of who protested the executions.

Of Latimer Ridley and

Cramley

don't know the answer to it.

Say that uh you you have a guy by the name of Soto who was a Spanish

friar during this time who was.

He tried in vain to turn Ridley back to Roman Catholicism so you certainly

had influence and notoriety that the Roman church

would place in correspondence with what they called these you know reformed Protestant

heretics to try to get them to turn back.

But I'm not aware of.

I'm personally not aware.

I'm not saying there weren't any but I'm personally not aware of any Roman Catholics that the

deaths of the execution.

We have RJ in White Plains New York who has said.

I have often heard Roman Catholic apologists make the claims that Protestants in

history executed just as many Roman Catholics as Roman Catholics

executed Protestants from my knowledge of church history and I'm no historian or expert

but that seems very unlikely.

What are your opinions from your own knowledge of church.

History on that issue

there was enough blood spilled you know on both sides to I think bring

dishonor to the Lord.

And I don't want to form any any strong opinion either way because I

don't sense that there's really a need to do that.

What happened happened under God's sovereignty you know on both sides.

I can say this though with respect to Hugh Latimer one of the first sermons he preached

in the court of the king was in the year I think 1530 and he preached the

sinfulness of the state or the government using temple

and that sort of thing to advance God's kingdom.

Yes you had the Christian crusades.

Yes you had death and execution

and a Baptist were put to death.

And you had Catholics obviously putting Protestants to death.

But there were these.

That wasn't everyone not everyone endorsed that that sort of mindset.

There were people like Latimer who who thought it was wrong and thought it was sinful and thought it was against

the Word of God.

Jesus says my kingdom is not of this world.

Paul tells the Corinthians that our warfare is not against flesh and blood.

It's not with the temporary weapons of this world.

And so because so many Christians throughout history

affirmation of sola scriptura even before that term was coined in God's grace.

You had people who didn't endorse you know that sort of killing and those sorts of executions.

On the other hand we don't want to deny the fact that they did take place.

They were an instrumental part of history.

They were in many ways events that

the Lord used in his sovereignty to accomplish his purpose.

We don't want to excuse sin when it occurs.

On the other hand we don't want to deny the fact that God is sovereign over those

things.

And then he has his providential reasons as to why people are executed.

Why Latimer and Ridley were executed and why other Protestants were not executed.

So we leave those mysteries I think with God and with his ways and trust that his ways are always best and wise.

Now of course.

I'm assuming that you would agree with me that although God who is in sovereign

control of every single molecule anywhere in heaven on earth and in the

universe and every event that occurs occurs by his decree

that God at the same time is not pleased by

sinful and wicked and satanic and barbaric executions of his true

children you know just just like when we talk about

the fact that God is sovereign even over the holocaust that did not mean that he had some kind of

seal of approval or joy in what the Nazis did.

All of those Nazis who did not repent are in hell and will spend an eternity in

torment.

So I think we have to be clear that when we say God's in control of even the martyrdom of his

saints that it's not that he is.

He's not taking delight in this.

Yeah absolutely.

And I think that's very helpful Chris.

And to follow up just on what you said these questions are difficult.

Not because we don't know right from wrong not because we we don't have a conscience that we're able to

discern when something doesn't quite match God's word.

But we also have to remember that our context today is in many ways just

completely antithetical to their own day where you had the church and the

state so intricately tied together that sometimes it was hard to tell well is this the church

putting people to death or is this the state putting people to death.

Is this because so many of these walls were connected between church and state.

And so sometimes that complicates when we try to get to specific situations

whether or not you know one death is legitimate over another or one execution is legitimate over another.

As Americans you know we believe in freedom of speech.

As Americans we believe in the right to religious liberty.

That's how our country was formed.

But our day that we live in is just entirely different than the day that

the reformers lived in.

And I think we need to recognize that as we as we think through these issues.

Yes and from and.

I'm no expert either I'm no historian but from my reading of history

since the 80s after becoming a born -again believer it

seems a really I think absurd

position to take that the Protestants of history executed as much or more

Catholics.

First of all from my knowledge of history and if anybody can document that I'm wrong most of the

martyrdoms of Catholics at the hand of Protestants were in the Church of England.

I mean I don't know of any massacres or

executions in any significant number if at all under Calvin's

authority in Geneva.

I don't know that ever taking place in Luther's Germany where by from from my knowledge the

Catholics and the Protestants did cohabit Germany

and there was no.

I think the Anabaptists had a greater threat of being executed than Roman Catholics did.

So yeah yeah I think you're right.

And and after you know the you know Queen Bloody Mary came to the throne a lot of

the English Protestants led to places like Geneva Switzerland where Calvin

was because they knew they could could have religious freedom there.

And Michael Servetus who was executed in Geneva the original reason he wanted to go to Geneva was

because he thought he would find Geneva as a place of refuge.

And so I think you're right.

I think the the reformed the the Swiss Reformation the German Reformation.

As far as the Protestant side goes you saw far fewer executions from that side.

It was the Catholics in the Church in

England that then turned back Roman Catholic that was it was killing Protestants.

But I would think that it's unfounded to say that there were equal deaths

or equal executions on both both at the hands of Protestants and at the hands of Roman Catholics.

And of course you have Roman the Roman Catholic Church doing this while claiming

to have an infallible Pope so an infallible

magisterium.

So it is a different story altogether when Protestants make no

such claim about their own leadership.

Let's see we have Bobby in Hartsdale New York who says.

Of course we rejoice and thank God that people in the Christian faith

whether they are Roman Catholic or Protestant are not martyring each other anymore.

But I think that some lessons can be learned from the seriousness with which they took

the differences of doctrine.

And how can we in our modern day balance these things where we hold

steadfast to truth and do not compromise on things that are very important while

at the same time not holding on to animosity.

Bitterness hatred and bigotry towards those who disagree.

Back to William Tyndale and

before he was executed his prayer was lord open the eyes of the king of England.

And that prayer was answered because during these Protestant reform days

I mean even under King Henry VIII the Bible which Tyndale loved and wanted in the

English language the Bible was distributed you know in every church and biblical

preaching gained momentum.

And Latimer and Ridley were known for preaching the Bible.

They were not offensive men because of the way they treated people.

They were offensive because of the truth they pray.

We need a recovery of just preaching the word.

We need a revival in the pulpit.

In fact a reformation will not occur unless it occurs from the pulpit.

And it's not hard to offend people because we're sinners.

But we we ought not shrink away from offending people if we're standing up for truth.

And I think you know these men.

You read the description that Fox gives in the Fox's book of martyrs of the type of men that

Ridley and Latimer were.

He uses words like beautiful men men with excellent qualities godly men learned men.

These were not men that that were difficult to get along with because of their personalities.

They were men who preached the Bible.

They were known as preachers.

And if you do that some people will be won over by God's sovereign grace and others

will hate you.

But at least you know that you're being offensive based upon the truth of God's word.

And not because of of some petty uh thing.

That disagreement that you're having we have Arnie in

Perry County Pennsylvania.

Who asks is one of the reasons why the Church of England historically

after the reformation did not maintain a uniformly

calvinistic u -brick and platform.

Because of the fact that England was as we know from what you've already said

switching back and forth from Roman Catholicism to Protestantism to Roman Catholicism to Protestantism

and the last time that that occurred when Protestantism took hold permanently

there was an effort to have some kind of midway approach

that was not so offensive to the Roman Catholic citizens of England.

I think we could

even say

Anglicanism

um that goes back to the book of common prayer.

Um that shows they have reformed leanings and the 39 articles of religion that that.

Cranmer 39 articles of religion.

Yeah.

And so so Cranmer obviously was in charge of the book of common prayer and getting it printed the book of

homilies as well.

And uh Latimer and Ridley were instrumental.

Latimer and the book of homilies which was sermons put together for the Church of England that were that were

sermons that priests who weren't competent enough to preach in English because they were so used

to preaching in Latin they could read these sermons on justification by faith and other key doctrines.

Um Ridley was instrumental in the book of common prayer and putting that together.

And the second edition of that book of common prayer actually has a view of the Eucharist or

a view of the Lord's Supper that is thoroughly Calvinistic.

Um it speaks about taking the elements in remembrance.

So there's a remembrance of Christ.

And and taking the elements and eating them by faith uh which is a nod to the fact that

eating them physically does not save you as transubstantiation teaches right.

And a strong.

Prohibition to venerating or worshiping the elements.

Yes after you know which it seemed.

Like each edition there were three editions that that were published

fairly early on and each one got stronger and stronger on a more Calvinistic understanding of the

Lord's Supper.

I don't know um you know exactly what today uh the

official Anglican you know what most Anglicans would view regarding the Lord's Supper but I know the

book of common prayer would be would be fairly Calvinistic um on that position.

Well we have to go to our final break right now.

It'll be much more brief than the last one but if you want to send in a question please do so immediately because we're rapidly

running out of time.

Our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail

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residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Keep listening after this program goes off the air, because we have awaiting us

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the gospel and be a blessing to the body of Christ.

We are now back with our guest Andrew Smith, and Andrew, before I take any listener

question, if we have time for any, I want you to really summarize why we must never

forget the sacrifices of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley, who were burned

at the stake on this day, October 16th, 1555.

Well, if

I could, what he meant by that is that God

does sovereignly use martyrdom as a means by which the church

grows and blossoms, and reformation may come if we fervently pray for it,

and God wills it, but the likelihood of it coming apart from martyrdom or persecution

is probably unlikely, because this has been the story throughout church history.

So we pray for reformation and revival on the one hand, on the other hand, we gird

our loins and pray that God would give us grace to suffer under any martyrdom or persecution

he might allow our way, and that's why it's important to remember the sacrifice that these men made,

because the Lord might call us to this same sacrifice, and we need God's grace and mercy to follow in

their stead.

Amen.

And I've brought this up before, but in our day and age, we've got to

remember the men, women, and children who were executed for their

faith, and yet we, in our day and age, are

afraid of hurting people's feelings or having our

own livelihoods affected negatively by speaking the

truth when it comes to Christ, when it comes to biblical truths.

We have a most recent glowing example, sadly, with

the NFL great Drew Brees, who initially did a

public service announcement promoting bringing your Bible to school day for the

kids, and then when the LGBTQ folks

frightened him, or perhaps the NFL, enough to

make Drew Brees reconsider what he had said,

he came back on the air and basically gave such an ambiguous

apology that you didn't even know whether he truly thought homosexuality was a sin or not.

But, you know, a football career, as valuable as that

is to Drew Brees, especially when it brings in millions of dollars into your

household, is not equivalent to being burned at the stake, and

yet we have all of these heroes before us who were willing to do that.

And I'm sorry, folks, we are out of time right now, so perhaps the next time we have Andrew Smith on, you can

send in your questions on another date in church history that we are bringing to

your attention.

Once again, I want to make sure that we give you all the information that you need to contact

Pastor Andrew Smith.

The website for Christ Reformed Community Church in St. John's, Florida is christreformedcc .com,

and you can get all the archived podcasts for today in church

history, that's h -i -s -s -t -o -r -y, you can get those at

heartofflame .org, heartofflame .org.

Thank you so much, Dr. Smith, for being on our program today.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that

Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.