October 16, 2019 Show with Andrew Smith on “Today in Church His-Story: The Martyrdom of Latimer & Ridley (& Why We Must Never Forget Their Sacrifice)”

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on the 16th day of October 2019 and I'm thrilled to have back on the program

Dr. Andrew Smith who is pastor of Christ Reform Community Church in St.

Johns, Florida and he's also the host of a podcast called Today in Church History and history is spelled h -i -s dash s -t -o -r -y and we are going to be discussing today the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley and why we must never forget their sacrifice and that martyrdom took place on this date in history,

October 16th, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

Andrew Smith. Chris, thanks for having me on again brother, I really appreciate it.

And first of all, we are intending to have you back on monthly, sometimes more than once a month, to address a date in church history that should be remembered.

Tell us about this podcast. Well, the podcast was birthed at the end of last year just in my mind, in my heart, as I was working on my doctorate of ministry degree at Master Seminary and trying to think through maybe some of the ways that I could put to use the many years of education that I've been blessed to receive.

And preaching and history are two of my favorite topics in all the world and so I was looking for a way to kind of tie those two things together and I thought more of a podcast rather than writing articles, although I do write some articles on my website,

I thought that a podcast in our day and age would be a better means to reach more people.

And so I started it at the beginning of this year and really shot for a five to ten minute, just a small little kind of lunch hour listen where I take an event of church history that occurs on that particular day in which

I do the broadcast and just try to explain it in summary form and then apply it with various scripture passages for Christians today.

And I know that the podcast is archived at heartofflame .org,

that's H -E -A -R -T, the letter A, F -L -A -M -E dot org. Is that where folks can hear it live also or how do they hear this program?

Yeah, unfortunately it's not a live program as yours is, but they can visit that website and get all the archived copies of the podcast.

We're up to episode 33 at this point. If folks are familiar with Apple iTunes, which most of the listeners probably are, you can search for Today in Church History, again history spelled

H -I -S hyphen S -T -O -R -Y at Apple iTunes, and you can listen that way as well.

Okay, now to let our listeners know, for the sake of our listeners who did not hear you during your previous interviews on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, tell our listeners about Christ Reformed Community Church in St.

John's, Florida. Well, Christ Reformed is a church that I'm very, very blessed to pastor, also the establishing pastor of the church.

We started back in September of 2015, me and my wife and another couple, and since then the church has grown both spiritually and numerically to the point where we're able to minister to the community and minister to those who have joined and become part of the work, and we are basically an independent, non -denominational

Reformed church. So we would be confessional, we practice believer's baptism, but we wouldn't call ourselves necessarily

Reformed Baptists. We have quite a few Presbyterians that are part of our congregation, and so our church is unique in the sense that it's a place where Presbyterians and Baptists tend to get along pretty well.

And Christ Reformed Community Church, for those of our listeners that want to look up that website, it's christreformedcc .com,

christreformedcc .com, and I've just been informed that there is a loud hissing noise from a listener in Ireland who said that she's listening to the program, and there's a loud hissing noise.

I'm sorry, there's nothing else I could do right now. I don't understand why that is occurring, but if you could please be patient and just deal with that as much as you can.

The date that we are addressing today, October 16th, first of all, what year were

Latimer and Ridley martyred? So the year was 1555, so the middle of the 16th century.

1555. And so tell us about these two brave souls that would rather be executed than deny their precious faith.

Well, there were a lot of things that both of them had in common, beginning with the fact that they would fit in that category that historians typically call the

Marian martyrs. And there were three of them that were executed around the same time.

Of course, Ridley and Latimer were executed together, back -to -back, burnt at the same stake.

And then a couple of weeks later, Thomas Cranmer, the Archbishop of Canterbury, was also executed in the same exact spot.

And as a matter of fact, he witnessed from the rooftop of a nearby building the execution of Ridley and Latimer.

And that was sort of the motivation of the Roman Church to try to get him to recant his

Protestantism, which he actually did recant his Protestantism, but then he recanted his recantation later on, as we famously know, and was executed and died being a

Protestant. And requested that his hand that signed his original recantation of the

Protestant faith, that that hand be burned first. Yeah, yeah. All the accounts say that he actually put his hand in the fire, his right hand in the fire, and said this was the hand that committed the offense of denying the precious faith, and so it will be the part of my body that burns first.

And by all accounts, that indeed did take place. But the Marian martyrs were, there were more than just Ridley, Latimer, and Cranmer.

There was about 300 that were burnt at the stake, and there was another, you know,

I don't know how many that died in prison as a result of being imprisoned by Queen Bloody Mary, who was the daughter of King Henry VIII and his first wife,

Catherine of Aragon. She was intensely Roman Catholic, and really, after all the reforms that had taken place in England over a period of about 20 years, when she became the queen, she tried to reverse all of those things.

And it was somewhat of a counter -reformation that led to all of these martyrs of the faith that we look up to today.

And the names, the full names of these two individuals to whom we are paying tribute today are

Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley. Why don't you tell us about these men before we even get to the point of why they were executed?

Sure. I'll start with Latimer. He was the older of the two. We don't know exactly what year he was born, but it was the latter half of the 15th century.

So somewhere between 1480 and 1491, most historians say he was born.

Like Nicholas Ridley, they were both educated at Cambridge.

Hugh Latimer was educated at Christ College, and he received three degrees. So they were both very learned men, and for Latimer's part, he was intensely against Protestantism.

In fact, his oral defense for one of his degrees, one of the three degrees that he received, was basically a polemic against Martin Luther, and specifically against Philip Melancthon's teachings on justification by faith alone.

But just in God's providence, it was through that oral defense that a man named

Thomas Bilney, who was listening to this defense, was sympathetic to Protestantism and took

Latimer by his side and convinced him that these Reformed principles were actually closer to the

Bible than what the current Roman Church was teaching. And so Latimer changed from a fierce opponent of the

Reformed faith or Protestantism to become an ardent supporter of it.

And the thing that helped Latimer out more than anything is that he was a very good preacher.

He was a popular preacher, and I don't say that in the sense that he tickled people's ears, but he had a certain wit about his sermonic delivery.

He spoke in plain language that the people could understand, and so he was able to gain a hearing just based upon his ability to communicate effectively in his day.

But he was licensed with 12 other preachers by Cambridge College to basically go in a circuit around England and to preach.

And eventually he gained the hearing of King Henry VIII. He became an advisor to King Henry VIII under the influence of Thomas Cranmer, who encouraged that relationship.

And Latimer also became chaplain to Anne Boleyn, who was the second wife of King Henry VIII, who was a

Protestant. And as I said, he was known primarily for his preaching and even had the ability to have humor in his sermons.

Historians say that he preached up to two hours long, so he preached long sermons, but during that day it wasn't extremely uncommon for Reformed people to do that.

And then Nicholas Ridley was about 20 years younger than Hugh Latimer, and Ridley was born near Newcastle, England in Northumberland.

He was also educated at Cambridge much later than Latimer. And Ridley is considered to be the scholar of the two, although by no means do historians think that Latimer wasn't also a scholar.

It's just that Ridley not only was educated at Cambridge, but he also went off to Paris and studied there, and he helped many educational posts at Cambridge College.

He was the proctor, I think it was, of Penbroke College. But Ridley was also a good preacher.

He was appointed as the king's chaplain, so Latimer was the chaplain for Anne Boleyn and was an advisor to King Henry VIII, but Nicholas Ridley was the king's personal chaplain.

He was also the Bishop of London, which was a very, obviously, prestigious position.

Latimer also held a bishopric as well. And so both of these men were actually imprisoned in the same room, along with Cranmer in the

Tower of London, when they were arrested by the time that Queen Mary came to the throne. And so they knew each other before that, but they really developed a bond there as they were in the

Tower of London. And we can only imagine what sort of prayers they prayed and what sort of scriptures they quoted to each other, as they inevitably knew they were all going to be executed for their faith in the one and only true gospel of Jesus Christ.

So tell us a bit about the religious turmoil that had been taking place in England, in the

Church of England, prior to this. The Church of England seemed to be, for quite a while, swinging back and forth like a pendulum from Roman Catholicism to Protestantism and even different forms of Protestantism, where you had even the

Puritans, who eventually chose to depart from the

Church of England because they themselves were being oppressed for their purity of the stances they took regarding biblically faithful belief and practice.

But tell us a little bit in more detail about the pendulum of Romanism to Protestantism and back to Romanism that seemed to be plaguing the

Church of England, which actually led to the deaths of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley.

Yeah, well, I appreciate the question. It's not an easy question to answer only because of the complications of not only history and theology, but just even genealogy.

I mean, you're talking about King Henry VIII, who had multiple wives. Some of them were

Protestant, some of them were Catholic. And King Henry VIII, it's been said by one historian that he would go through theological moods like he went through his wives.

In other words, he wasn't a man necessarily driven by the conviction of Scripture or driven by Protestant principles.

He was a religious man. He took mass three times a day. And so it wasn't that he wasn't religious.

He was part of that religious climate of the day. But he was all about power. So he was actually an ardent defender of the

Roman Catholic faith, and him and Martin Luther butted heads. In fact, didn't he have that official title of defender of the faith while Roman Catholic?

Yeah, he received that title in 1521. Of course, the Pope can only give that title to someone, and the

Pope gave it to Henry VIII. And the reason the Pope gave it to him is because Henry wrote a defense of the seven sacraments, in which, you know,

Luther was arguing there are only two sacraments, Lord's Supper and Baptism, and Henry VIII, with the help of some other scholars, wrote a polemic against Martin Luther that said, no, there are seven sacraments.

There's confirmation, there's penance, there's ordination, there's the last rites, there's marriage, and the

Pope was so proud of Henry VIII that he entitled him defender of the faith. But Henry's problems were more about the fact that he couldn't have an heir to the throne.

That was really his issue. So his first wife, Catherine of Aragon, couldn't give him a son.

He did have a daughter by her by the name of Queen Mary, who later became Queen Bloody Mary, and as I'm sure we'll talk about later, this divorce or annulment from Catherine of Aragon really,

I think, settled in the heart of Queen Mary a resistance toward Protestantism, because King Henry VIII, her father, had divorced her mother.

But he sought to get annulment of this marriage by appealing to texts like Leviticus 20 -21, which said you're not supposed to take your brother's wife, and Catherine of Aragon was, in fact, his dead brother's former wife.

And so he tried to appeal to the Pope to annul the marriage based upon that so that he could marry someone else so he could have a male heir.

So again, Henry was motivated more by political things in terms of how his legacy was going to be carried on through the throne rather than theological convictions and priorities.

And so he did end up marrying Anne Boleyn. His marriage was not annulled by the

Pope, but he went ahead and divorced her anyway, and with the Act of Supremacy in about the year 1534, he was declared the

Supreme Head of the Church of England. And Chris, I don't know if you've heard kind of the legend that was used by some of the scholars surrounding

Henry VIII as to the legitimacy of naming King Henry VIII the Supreme Head of the Church of England.

Are you aware of the legend that surrounds that? Just by that description, no. So there was a legend current in that day, and who knows, maybe even

King Henry VIII's scholars made this story up. But the legend said that the first church planted was actually not planted in Rome by the

Apostle Peter, but that it was planted in England by Joseph of Arimathea.

And so the argument was that every other country in the world needs to submit to the Pope, but England doesn't need to submit to the

Pope. England is different because England had the first church, and therefore the church in England, in some odd, convoluted way, actually owed her allegiance to the king first above the

Pope, which is an interesting part of history. And those were the type of arguments that were ultimately used by King Henry.

So he was not trying to start a Protestant Reformation by the things and decisions he made.

It was more motivated by his marriages and trying to get an heir to the throne.

In fact, I have heard from people who seem to be very knowledgeable.

In fact, one of the individuals who told me this during an interview is a

Thomas Cranmer scholar. He's considered to be one of the foremost experts on the life and legacy of Thomas Cranmer, if not the most knowledgeable living expert.

Dr. Ashley Null, who is an Anglican teaching in Berlin, Germany.

But he has written on Cranmer, and he said that Archbishop Cranmer, although he was friends with King Henry VIII, and although King Henry VIII is the one that had appointed him, he never believed in the genuineness of King Henry's conversion.

He viewed him as remaining a Roman Catholic, and on Henry's deathbed, according to Dr.

Null, Thomas Cranmer was holding Henry's hand and said, if you believe in justification by faith alone, please squeeze my hand, and apparently

Henry did. Whether that was a sign of true conversion or not, I don't know.

But that is the story that I've heard. I don't know if you have heard that as well. No, I haven't heard that story.

But I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility, just because, like you said earlier, the pendulum swinged back and forth with Henry.

I mean, even after instituting these reforms that were in support of Protestantism, after he broke away from the

Pope in 1534 with the Act of Supremacy, a few years later, after he won all the support of these reformers, the

Six Articles came out, which were basically a capitulation back to Romanism, and people like Hugh Latimer actually resigned their posts as bishop and kind of fell out with King Henry VIII because he was fearful that this reformation was going too far.

And so he was a man, and I'm not a psychologist, and I'm not going to try to be one, but he was certainly a man who had a lot of internal issues going on with his temperament and with wanting power and all of those sorts of things.

So I wouldn't put it past him at all just to swing back and forth, and who knows what happened at his deathbed.

Now lead us up to the point where Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley knew that they were in trouble with the authorities in the

Church of England, and what were the specific reasons, doctrinally specifically, or matters of practice, that were really getting the authorities hot under the collar, if you will, and determined to either get them to repent of these things or to execute them?

Well initially, as I said, Latimer especially gained the support of Henry VIII because he preached against the clergy and the abuses of the clergy.

There was a sermon series that he preached at St. Paul's Cross entitled

On the Plow in about the year 1547, and this was later on, but he had a refrain in it where he said, the devil is never out of his diocese.

And that was kind of Latimer's...he was a lot like Luther in attacking the corruption of the clergy, and King Henry VIII liked this.

So in that sense, King Henry VIII supported Latimer. Latimer would say things like, the priests are always lording and loitering, and because lording and loitering have come up, it makes preaching go down.

They pamper their ponches, they munch in their mangers, they moil in their mansions, which is all very colorful language to suggest that the clergy just fed themselves food and were gluttonous and weren't worth anything.

That really appealed to King Henry VIII, but what put pressure on people like Latimer and Ridley was ultimately their view of justification by faith alone, ultimately their views against images, things like that, their stance against transubstantiation, which

King Henry VIII, really, he gave them a long leash on these things, but these were issues that, when

Queen Mary ascended the throne, she had no toleration for, because she was staunchly

Catholic. So with King Henry VIII, when he was reigning, there was a longer leash with Latimer and Ridley.

Latimer was imprisoned briefly under King Henry VIII's rule, but after King Henry VIII died,

Edward VI came to the throne, who was the son of King Henry VIII's third wife,

Jane Seymour, and she was an ardent Protestant, and so that's when you start to see things really pick up in terms of the

Reformation picking up in England, but it wasn't until Queen Mary came to the throne, she didn't like the teaching against transubstantiation, she didn't like the teaching against purgatory, she didn't like the teaching against images.

For example, Nicholas Ridley, when he was the Bishop of London, he removed the altars in the churches of London, and he replaced them with communion tables.

And of course, the reason he did that is because he did not believe that Christ was re -sacrificed at the

Lord's Supper, and that this was a table feast for all of God's family to partake in.

So those are just some of the examples. The normal doctrines that Martin Luther himself upheld were the same evangelical doctrines that Ridley and Latimer upheld, and more ultimately, they were ultimately killed for holding up to these truths.

So when Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley were given the option to either recant their beliefs or be executed, it was really not one or two, it was basically a litany of beliefs that would fall under the umbrella of Reformational teaching, and of course, you and I would call it

Biblical teaching. Yeah, I'd say that that is true, except for the fact that if you read the records of the final hearing of Latimer and Ridley, because they were actually tried at the same time.

So they were not only executed at the same time, but they were tried at the same time, and the main charge brought up against them is that they did not hold the transubstantiation.

That was the primary thing, and when Latimer was asked to recant, or when he was asked at that same trial, which

I think was in the year 1554, because they were arrested in 1553 and then executed in 1555,

Latimer said, I don't owe you a response. If you want to know what I believe, then just read the

New Testament. I mean, that's basically what he said, and he just refused to...

he was not like Cranmer when it came to the end of his life. He was very strong and resolute.

You mean Cranmer in his first threat? Yes, first incantation.

Right. Yes, exactly. Well, we're going to go to our first station break right now.

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We are now back with our discussion with Dr. Andrew Smith, pastor of Christ Performed Community Church in St.

John's, Florida. We are discussing today in church history the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley and why we must never forget their sacrifice.

If you have a question for our guest, Dr. Andrew Smith, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Can you tell us, Andrew, about any of the conversations that took place between Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley during their imprisonment and right up to their execution?

And also, perhaps, if you could tell us something about the reaction of the crowds observing this.

Well, I'll start with the latter question because I think it's the more important question.

Something interesting occurred when these three Oxford martyrs, as they're called,

Ridley, Latimer, and Cranmer, were burnt at the stake. They were burnt at the stake at 1555, but the crowds were so aghast at what occurred in witnessing this.

And especially witnessing Cranmer recant his Protestantism and then turn around right before he's executed and recant his newfound

Catholicism again. All of this really created some momentum for the

Protestants. I believe that Queen Mary would have been well on her way of instituting

Roman Catholicism as the primary religion in England if Cranmer would have kept his original recantation of the

Protestant faith. But when he changed that, when he went back to Protestantism right before he died and put his hand famously in the fire and said, this is the fire that signed my denial of the

Protestant faith. I should have never done it, and so this hand is going to be the first to burn. When he did that, something happened with those who had seen

Ridley and Latimer burnt at the stake and those who had witnessed Cranmer burnt at the stake. And what happened was they became national heroes.

They became patriots, and they became spiritual patriots, if I could use that language.

So much so that in the year, I think it was 1558 or the latter part of the 1550s,

England made a new law that from that day forward, no more heretics or alleged heretics would be at the stake publicly.

They would be burnt at the stake behind the walls of the prison. So, and then when you take into account the fact that Cranmer witnessing, you know, his brothers that he had been in the same cell with hold fast their faith until the end, witnessing that as they're being burned and the things that they were saying back and forth to one another, most famously in Fox's Book of Martyrs, Latimer said to Ridley, as the flames were being lit, be a good comfort,

Master Ridley, play the man. We shall this day light a candle by God's grace in England, as I trust shall never be put out.

And things like that that are being said when you're being put to death, the confidence in the gospel that they had, the relaxed conversation that they were having between one another, even as the faggots were being lit, the wood around them was being lit, all of this was a strong encouragement to the people of England regarding the credibility of the

Protestant faith. Here are these men who have such a strong faith, they refuse to recant.

One of the things that occurred at, and I don't want to say every execution, but certainly at many of them, if not most of them, and something that did occur at Ridley and Latimer's execution was the preaching of a sermon.

And the sermon was about a 15 -minute sermon, and it was a sermon preached by a Dr. Smith who supported

Roman Catholic teaching, and the sermon was to the crowd to discourage them from being Protestant, and the sermon was also designed, this 15 -minute sermonette, was designed to try to get the ones executed, in this case

Latimer and Ridley, to recant their faith at the very end. So things in the sermon were said such as, you know, these people think that they have a genuine faith, but it's not genuine because they're not part of the

Roman Catholic Church, and they're getting ready to enter an eternity of hell. But Latimer and Ridley's faith held strong until the end, even under this immense pressure.

And with crowds watching this, it had a huge impact on the momentum that the

Protestant Reformation had, and by that point there was no turning back in terms of the momentum that it picked up.

Praise God. Now, is there any record of specifically why

Hugh Latimer said to his friend Nicholas Ridley, play the man?

Could it be that Nicholas Ridley was weeping and he was in a loving way saying, man up?

Or what do you know about that? Well, that would be maybe one assumption.

We do know that, and this would be the position that I would take, when they lit the fire, they lit

Ridley first. So the wood around Ridley's feet, they lit first. But because the wood was not stacked properly, and who knows, maybe this was even done on purpose to cause more torture.

As the flames rose, they only rose so high as his waist, so that basically Ridley was being burnt at his lower extremities, and he felt that the whole time.

And the fire was not getting up to his head, whereas Latimer, from my understanding, his fire was lit later, but he was consumed almost instantly, because the flames went all the way up to his head.

So it could be that in the midst of that fire at Ridley's lower extremities, before Latimer was being lit up, that he made that statement, play the man, to encourage him.

We know that mercy was shown to Ridley in the midst of this.

Ridley's brother -in -law, who was there present, had actually put around Ridley's neck a sack of gunpowder in hopes that he would die quicker.

And when the fire wasn't coming up to his head like it was, finally someone moved an ember or a stick so that the fire rose up to the gun sack, and the gun sack exploded, and Ridley finally left this world and entered the presence of the

Lord. But when you think about dying by being burnt, burnt alive, that is a most torturous death,

I think. And so who knows why Latimer made the statement. We know he made it, and we know that Ridley stood strong until the end.

Ridley was calling out, have mercy on me, God, have mercy, receive my soul. So until the very end,

Ridley certainly did not recant. He did not capitulate whatsoever to Roman Catholicism.

And what makes this remarkable, or just one of the many things that makes it remarkable, in light of the 21st century ecumenism that has been going on even before the 21st century, where peace at any price seems to be the motto of many churches, or at least professing churches, these men were willing to die for things that today you have thoroughgoing

Protestants that believe in the same things you and I do. They perhaps even hold to the same confessions we do.

But they look at a view of transubstantiation, that the

Eucharist during the Lord's Supper, the bread and wine, the elements truly become the body, soul, and divinity of Christ.

They are Christ, and therefore are to be worshipped. They view this as, well, you know, it's just differences of opinion, but we're still brothers, and why make a big fuss over this?

I just find it utterly remarkable that you have men who are willing to die, and if this is indeed a trivial matter, or at least just a secondary or tertiary matter, then they should have just kept their mouths shut.

They should have just said, I have these private theological explorations

I'm going through, and I'm just going to not make waves over this, especially since it's going to lead to a torturous, painful, agonizing death, so let's just keep this to ourselves, and we'll bring it up maybe at private

Bible studies. They didn't do that, and I think that there's a reason they did it. It's because these issues are far more grave and intensely important than many in modern -day

Christendom think they are. I couldn't agree with you more, Chris, and I think that's such an apt word in terms of application.

I'll have to remember that if I do a Today in Church History podcast, to make that application that you articulated so well.

Two things come to mind. You know, the difference between Ridley and Latimer and evangelical

Christians today is a matter of courage, and courage is motivated by conviction.

Courage is not motivated by your personality, it's not motivated by your personal strength of character or mind, it's motivated by conviction.

These men truly believed what they preached, and in fact, Latimer said the best way that you can know whether or not these priests are hypocrites is by the way they behave.

You want to know what they believe? Well, look at their behavior, and I think that their issue was that if you truly believe something, you ought to be willing to die for it.

And there's one story about Latimer that I need to share. And in fact, if you could bring that story up right when we come back, because we have to go to our midway break.

We have to go to our midway break right now. It's the longer the normal break. Please be patient with us. This is a longer break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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You got to understand, folks, that we cannot exist without our advertisers, so please try to patronize them as often as you can.

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Andrew Smith about the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley on this date in history,

October 16, 1555. Don't go away. Oh, and by the way, that email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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from Chris Arms and An Iron Trip from Zion Radio. Before we return to Andrew Smith and our commemoration of the martyrdom of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley on this date in history,

October 16, 1555, I just have a few announcements to make in regard to upcoming events that I hope that you will attend, the first of which is the

Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship on the Doctrines of Grace, and that's being held

Friday, November 1st, 7 to 9 p .m. and Saturday, November 2nd, 10 a .m.

to 4 p .m. at the Hope Performed Baptist Church of Quorum, Long Island, New York. I will be there,

God willing, and it's going to be a great time, no doubt, not only hearing excellent messages from gifted pastors, but also to fellowship with the brethren there.

And this will feature pastors from different local churches on Long Island that are a part of the

Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship, all lovers of the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace. So if you would like to join me there, you can go to the website reformedrookie .com,

that's reformedrookie .com. You can also go to hopereformedli .net,

hopereformedli .net, or you can call 631 -696 -5711, 631 -696 -5711.

Then, coming up in December, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th,

I am going to be packing up my bags again, heading back to New York, this time to New York City, for the

Foundations Conference. This is a conference of sermonaudio .com, and I love the fact that they're having it this time around in the heart of the

Christmas season, because Manhattan is my favorite place to be during the Christmas season. This is a conference only open to men in ministry leadership.

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If you fit that category, whether you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, I hope you join me there.

The speakers include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Paul Washer, Rev. Jeff Thomas, Rev. Armin Tomasian, who

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and Andrew Quigley. If you want to join me there, go to thefoundationsconference .com,

thefoundationsconference .com, and remember that's Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in Manhattan.

Then in January, you've been hearing the ads for it already by Todd Friel and my friend

James White, but I can't wait to pack up my bags and head down south this time for the

G3 Conference. This will be my fourth G3 Conference. The G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and it will be held once again at the

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta, and the theme is

Worship Matters. I just love this conference, and I love maintaining my exhibitors booth there because there are thousands of people there that are discovering my show, and also many people, dozens of people every year come up to me to tell me how much they already love listening to my show.

I've also gotten new sponsors by virtue of maintaining my exhibitors booth there. I've gotten new guests, and of course, as I already said, new listeners.

It's well worth your time to register for an exhibitors booth if you have a business, a parachurch organization, or anything else that you want to promote to the body of Christ in large numbers.

The speakers at the G3 Conference are always extraordinary, and the list is always long, really long.

Once again, we have Dr. Stephen J. Lawson speaking at the G3 Conference 2020. We have

Anthony Mathenia, who happens to be Paul Washer's pastor. We have my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

My friend Phil Johnson, who's been interviewed on this program more than any other guest. He is the Executive Director of John MacArthur's ministry,

Grace to You. My friend Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio.

My friend Dr. Tom Astle, Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the

Calvinistic ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention, who was just my guest yesterday. We have

Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, the President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries. We have Derek Thomas, the world -renowned Presbyterian author and pastor and conference speaker.

Kosti Hinn, who you've been hearing about, he is the nephew of the notorious charlatan and heretic Benny Hinn, and Kosti has renounced the

Word of Faith heresies of his youth and renounced the ministry of his own uncle, and he spends much of his time warning both the body of Christ and the lost about the dangers of the

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There are many other speakers that are on the roster at this conference, and of course the latest addition is

John MacArthur himself. I just can't wait to be there because I have considered

John MacArthur one of my greatest living heroes of the faith, and although I've interviewed him on the show and although he's written a phenomenal endorsement, a commendation for Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, which is posted very proudly on my website,

I have never met him nor have I been in the same room when he is preaching, or the same building, so I'm looking forward so much to being there with the addition of John MacArthur, looking so much forward even more,

I should say, to being there. So if you want to join me there, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com, and as I said, if you have a business, a parachurch ministry, or something else that you want to promote to the body of Christ, please consider registering for an exhibitor's booth just like I will be manning, and they have over typically over 5 ,000 people there every year at the

G3 Conference. With the addition of John MacArthur, I say they're going to have over 6 ,000 people. That is a guess on my part, but it's an educated guess knowing of the prominence of Dr.

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So go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com and register to attend and register for an exhibitor's booth if it applies to you.

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If you are not a member of a local bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God, you have to rectify that situation.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world so I can help you find a church and I have already helped many people all over the world find churches near them who have written to me requesting that I help them either churches they have joined or churches that they have visited while they're on vacation or churches that they have recommended to family friends and loved ones who don't have a church so please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

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Dr. Andrew Smith on the theme the martyr excuse me the martyrdom of Latimer and Ridley and why we must never forget their sacrifice that's the martyrdom of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley on this date in history

October 16, 1555 and again our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and before the break as you probably remember Dr.

Andrew you were going to tell us a story. Yeah, just a real quick story about Latimer and then a quick one about Ridley because I think both of these stories support your observation that during their day it was almost second nature for Christians to be courageous and stand up for the faith whereas today it's almost the opposite is true which is unfortunate but on one occasion the story goes of Latimer who was who was preaching

I think it was in the early 1520s so well before he was extremely well known well before he was even a bishop of Worcester and he started to preach and in walked a bishop of that particular diocese that he was in and in mid -sentence

Latimer changed not only the text he was going to preach from but he changed the entire sermon he went to a verse and somewhere in Hebrews that speaks about the high priest

I think it's Hebrews 9 and that he began to say you know all the corruptions that were going on with priests and bishops and clergy and clearly it was directed against this bishop who had just walked in but the bishop was was actually won over by such courage and asked

Latimer if he would preach a sermon similar to that against the teachings of Martin Luther and that's when

Latimer said no you know I can't do that I hold to what Luther teaches. The other story is about Ridley.

Ridley like Latimer did not back away from confrontation when it came to standing for the truth but he pursued it.

In fact when Queen Mary ascended the throne he went to see her uninvited which is not something you normally do to a queen but he used kind of his influence and connection to get into the court because both

Ridley and Latimer were preachers of the court at that time and he demanded an interview with Queen Mary and in that interview

Ridley asked her if she would please not neglect the word of God and she replied in a smart way well

I can't tell you what God's word is but I know that God's word in my father's day is not

God's word today which is another way of saying that King Henry VIII you know turned Protestant and I'm definitely not

Protestant and then she said I've never read any of your books Mr. Ridley and I'm glad that I haven't and I never will read any of them and he greatly offended her in that meeting and ultimately it led to his arrest because he sort of red flagged himself in that meeting in terms of his commitments and the fact that he wasn't going to change his position on some key doctrines and but the point is both of these men pursued confrontation and I mean that in a good way

I don't mean unnecessary confrontation on tertiary matters but primary matters concerning the gospel concerning the

Lord's Supper the nature of the Lord's Supper concerning justification by faith alone concerning the ability for the people to read the

Bible in their own language which both Ridley and Latimer greatly endorsed these sorts of things are things

Christians should stand for and it discourages me today when I see well -known

Christian leaders within large denominations endorsing books that are written by heretics oh yeah when they know better oh yeah and I hate to say it but somebody whose writings have blessed me enormously has been guilty of that time and time again and of course

I'm talking about J .I. Packer and I say that reluctantly but I think that we can't hide things about people in our own theological camp when we expose the erroneous actions and heretical beliefs and teachings of people outside of our camp we've got to be clear about what's going on among us and as much as Dr.

Packer has been a phenomenal blessing to the body of Christ he's also endorsed some disturbing things and had even got raised the ire of the late

R .C. Sproul and other folks Dr. John MacArthur and Michael Horton and others who were upset about his being very soft on the issues that divide

Roman Catholics and Protestants not not necessarily in his own books but in his ways that he interacted with them and he signed the

ECT document the evangelicals and Catholics together so very very troubling yeah but we do have a question let's see here we have

Christian in western Suffolk county Long Island New York and Christian asks were there any

Roman Catholics of significance that you know of who protested the executions of Latimer Ridley and Kramner that's a that's a great question

I definitely don't know the answer to it I would say that you you have a guy by the name of Soto who was a

Spanish friar during this time who was he tried in vain to turn

Ridley back to Roman Catholicism so you certainly had particular people of influence and notoriety that the

Roman church would place in correspondence with what they called these you know reformed

Protestant heretics to try to get them to turn back but I'm not aware of I'm personally not aware

I'm not saying there weren't any but I'm personally not aware of any Roman Catholics that would have protested the deaths of the executions of those three men we have

RJ in White Plains New York who has said I have often heard

Roman Catholic apologists make the claims that Protestants in history executed just as many

Roman Catholics as Roman Catholics executed Protestants from my knowledge of church history and I'm no historian or expert but that seems very unlikely what are your opinions from your own knowledge of church history on that issue well there's no question about the fact that there was enough blood spilled you know on both sides to I think bring dishonor to the

Lord and I don't want to form any any strong opinion either way because I don't sense that there's really a need to do that what happened happened under God's sovereignty you know on both sides

I can say this though with respect to Hugh Latimer one of the first sermons he preached in the court of the king was in the year

I think 1530 and he preached the sinfulness of the state or the government using temporal weapons or swords and that sort of thing to advance

God's kingdom so yes you had the Christian crusades yes you had death and execution and a

Baptist were put to death and you had Catholics obviously putting Protestants to death but there were these that wasn't everyone not everyone endorsed that that sort of mindset there were people like Latimer who thought it was wrong and thought it was sinful and thought it was against the word of God Jesus says my kingdom is not of this world

Paul tells the Corinthians that our warfare is not against flesh and blood it's not with the temporary weapons of this world and so because so many

Christians throughout history had such a robust affirmation of sola scriptura even before that term was coined in God's grace you had people who didn't endorse you know that sort of killing and those sorts of execution on the other hand we don't want to deny the fact that they did take place they were an instrumental part of history they were the religious wars were in many ways events that the

Lord used in his sovereignty to accomplish his purposes so we don't want to excuse sin when it occurs on the other hand we don't want to deny the fact that God is sovereign over those things and then he has his providential reasons as to why people are executed why

Latimer and Ridley were executed and why other Protestants were not executed so we leave those mysteries

I think with God and with his ways and trust that his ways are always best and wise now of course

I'm assuming that you would agree with me that although God who is in sovereign control of every single molecule anywhere in heaven on earth and in the universe and every event that occurs occurs by his decree that God at the same time is not pleased by sinful and wicked and satanic and barbaric executions of his true children you know just just like when we talk about the fact that God is sovereign even over the holocaust that did not mean that he had some kind of seal of approval or joy in what the

Nazis did all of those Nazis who did not repent are in hell and will spend an eternity in torment so I think we have to be clear that when we say

God's in control of even the martyrdom of his saints that it's not that he is he is not taking delight in this of course yeah absolutely and I think that's very helpful

Chris and to follow up just on what you said these questions are difficult not because we don't know right from wrong not because we we don't have a conscience that we're able to discern when something doesn't quite match

God's word but we also have to remember that our context today is in many ways just completely antithetical to their own day where you had the church and the state so intricately tied together that sometimes it was hard to tell well is this the church putting people to death or is this the state putting people to death is this because so many of these walls were connected between church and state and so sometimes that complicates when we try to get to specific situations whether or not you know one death is legitimate over another or one execution is legitimate over another as Americans you know we believe in freedom of speech as Americans we we believe in in the right to religious liberty that's how our country was formed but our day that we live in is just entirely different than the day that the reformers lived in and I think we need to recognize that as we as we think through these issues yes and from and I'm no expert either

I'm no historian but from my reading of history since the 80s after becoming a born -again believer it seems a really

I think absurd position to take that the

Protestants of history executed as much or more Catholics first of all from my knowledge of history and if anybody can document that I'm wrong most of the martyrdoms of Catholics at the hand of Protestants were in the

Church of England I mean I don't know of any massacres or executions in any significant number if at all under Calvin's authority in Geneva I don't know that ever taking place in Luther's Germany where but from from my knowledge the

Catholics and the Protestants did cohabit Germany and there was no

I think the Anabaptists had a greater threat of being executed than Roman Catholics did so yeah yeah

I think you're right and and after you know the you know Queen Bloody Mary came to the throne a lot of the

English Protestants led to places like Geneva Switzerland where Calvin was because they knew they could could have religious freedom there and Michael Servetus who was executed in Geneva the original reason he wanted to go to Geneva was because he thought he would find

Geneva as a place of refuge and so I think you're right I think the the reformed the

Swiss Reformation the German Reformation as far as the Protestant side goes you saw far fewer executions from that side it was the

Catholics in France who were killing the Protestants it was the you know the Church in England that then turned back

Roman Catholics that was killing Protestants but I would think that it's unfounded to say that there were equal death or equal executions on both both at the hands of Protestants and at the hands of Roman Catholics and of course you have

Roman the Roman Catholic Church doing this while claiming to have an infallible

Pope so an infallible Magisterium so it is a different story altogether when

Protestants make no such claim about their own leadership let's see we have

Bobby in Hartsdale New York who says of course we rejoice and thank

God that people in the Christian faith whether they are

Roman Catholic or Protestant are not martyring each other anymore but I think that some lessons can be learned from the seriousness with which they took the differences of doctrine and how can we in our modern day balance these things where we hold steadfast to truth and do not compromise on things that are very important while at the same time not holding on to animosity bitterness hatred and bigotry towards those who disagree yeah well three simple words preach the

Bible I think back to William Tyndale and before he was executed his prayer was

Lord open the eyes of the King of England and that prayer was answered because during these

Protestant reform days even under King Henry VIII the

Bible which Tyndale loved and wanted in the English language the Bible was distributed in every church and biblical preaching gained momentum and Latimer and Ridley were known for preaching the

Bible they were not offensive men because of the way they treated people they were offensive because of the truth they preached and so we need a recovery of just preaching the word we need a revival in the pulpit in fact a reformation will not occur unless it occurs from the pulpit and it's not hard to offend people because we're sinners but we ought not shrink away from offending people if we're standing up for truth and I think you know these men you read the description that Fox gives in the

Fox's Book of Martyrs of the type of men that Ridley and Latimer were he uses words like beautiful men men with excellent qualities godly men learned men these were not men that that were difficult to get along with because of their personalities they were men who preached the

Bible they were known as preachers and if you do that some people will be won over by God's sovereign grace and others will hate you but at least you know that you're being offensive based upon the truth of God's word and not because of of some petty thing that disagreement that you're having with someone else we have

Arnie in Perry County Pennsylvania who asks is one of the reasons why the

Church of England historically after the Reformation did not maintain a uniformly

Calvinistic you brick and platform because of the fact that England was as we know from what you've already said switching back and forth from Roman Catholicism to Protestantism to Roman Catholicism to Protestantism and the last time that that occurred when

Protestantism took hold permanently there was an effort to have some kind of midway approach that was not so offensive to the

Roman Catholic citizens of England well I guess in some cases you know we certainly would wish that the

Church of England was more reformed but there is one one instance or at least one tenet of I think we could even say

Anglicanism that goes back to the Book of Common Prayer that shows they have reformed leanings and the 39 articles of religion that that Cranmer 39 articles of religion yeah and so so Cranmer obviously was in charge of the

Book of Common Prayer and getting it printed the Book of Homilies as well and Latimer and Ridley were instrumental

Latimer in the Book of Homilies which was sermons put together for the Church of England that were that were sermons that priests who weren't competent enough to preach in English because they were so used to preaching in Latin they could read these sermons on justification by faith and other key doctrines

Ridley was instrumental in the Book of Common Prayer and putting that together and the second edition of that Book of Common Prayer actually has a view of the

Eucharist or a view of the Lord's Supper that is thoroughly Calvinistic it speaks about taking the elements in remembrance so there's a remembrance of Christ and and taking the elements and eating them by faith which is a nod to the fact that eating them physically does not save you as transubstantiation teaches right and a strong prohibition to venerating or worshipping the elements yes absolutely and this is the

Book of Common Prayer you know which it seemed like each edition uh there were three editions that that were published fairly early on and and each one got stronger and stronger on a more

Calvinistic understanding of the Lord's Supper and so I don't know um you know exactly what today the official

Anglican you know what most Anglicans would view regarding the Lord's Supper but I know the

Book of Common Prayer would be would be fairly Calvinistic on that position well we have to go to our final break right now it will be much more brief than the last one but if you want to send in a question please do so immediately because we're rapidly running out of time our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter don't go away

God willing we are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors as host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church

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Thank you. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio here.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Welcome back, and I want to also remind you that we have a brand new sponsor whose ads will be beginning shortly,

God willing. That is Grace Church at Franklin, located in Franklin, Tennessee, pastored by Bill Sasser, a wonderful brother in Christ and dear friend.

They have just signed a one -year advertising contract with Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and until those ads begin running, let me just give you their website.

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who is live -streaming Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Keep listening after this program goes off the air, because we have awaiting us a wonderful sermon, no doubt, from the powerful preacher

Joe Jacowicz, Pastor Joe Jacowicz of Christ Church in Dublin, California, and he is also the founder and president of firstloveradio .org,

who was just rescued by our great physician, Jesus Christ, from a scary trial battling a very deadly form of leukemia.

He is now in complete remission, as far as the physicians know, so keep him in your prayers.

Keep praying that he remains in remission and is totally cured, for that matter, and that he has many more years ahead of him to preach the gospel and be a blessing to the body of Christ.

We are now back with our guest, Andrew Smith, and Andrew, before I take any listener question, if we have time for any,

I want you to really summarize why we must never forget the sacrifices of Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley, who were burned at the stake on this day,

October 16th, 1555. Well, if I could just quote a quote from church history that's been famously attributed to Tertullian, who simply said, the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church, and what he meant by that is that God does sovereignly use martyrdom as a means by which the church grows and blossoms, and reformation may come if we fervently pray for it and God wills it, but the likelihood of it coming apart from martyrdom or persecution is probably unlikely, because this has been the story throughout church history.

So we pray for reformation and revival on the one hand, on the other hand, we gird our loins and pray that God would give us grace to suffer under any martyrdom or persecution he might allow our way, and that's why it's important to remember the sacrifices these men made, because the

Lord might call us to this same sacrifice, and we need God's grace and mercy to follow in their stead.

Amen. And I've brought this up before, but in our day and age, we've got to remember the men, women, and children who were executed for their faith, and yet we, in our day and age, are afraid of hurting people's feelings or having our own livelihoods affected negatively by speaking the truth when it comes to Christ, when it comes to biblical truths.

We have a most recent glowing example, sadly, with the

NFL great Drew Brees, who initially did a public service announcement promoting bring your bible to school day for the kids, and then when the

LGBTQ folks frightened him or perhaps the

NFL enough to make Drew Brees consider or reconsider what he had said, he came back in on the air and basically gave such an ambiguous apology that you didn't even know whether he truly thought homosexuality was a sin or not.

But, you know, a football career, as valuable as that is to Drew Brees, especially when it brings in millions of dollars into your household, is not equivalent to being burned at the stake, and yet we have all of these heroes before us who were willing to do that.

And I'm sorry, folks, we are out of time right now, so perhaps the next time we have Andrew Smith on, you can send in your questions on another date in church history that we are bringing to your attention.

Once again, I want to make sure that we give you all the information that you need to contact

Pastor Andrew Smith. The website for Christ Reformed Community Church in St.

John's, Florida is christreformedcc .com. And you can get all the archived podcasts for today in church history, that's h -i -s -s -t -o -r -y, you can get those at heartofflame .org,

heartofflame .org. Thank you so much, Dr. Smith, for being on our program today.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write, and I hope you always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater