September 2, 2021 Show with Frank Brito on “How Eschatology Effects Missions & Church Planting (& the Challenges of Both in Brazil)”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on

the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday

on this second day of September 2021.

At the very strong and enthusiastic urging

of my dear friend and one of my favorite guests, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft

III, who is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia,

and the urging of his wife, Becky, I have on the program today someone who they

think very highly of, to say the least, and I take Dr. Moorcraft and his wife

Becky's opinions very, very seriously.

Today my guest is Frank Brito.

He is a translator, missionary, church planter, and pastor, and I'm of course going

to have to have him correct my pronunciation of these Portuguese

words here.

Igreja Presbyteriana Reformada de Campo Bom in Rio

Grande do Sul, Brazil.

How did I do with that?

And what does that mean?

It means Reformed Presbyterian Church.

And by the way,.

I forgot to ask you if I was even pronouncing your name correctly.

Is it Brito or Brito?

Well, yes, that's correct.

Brito.

Oh, the second one is the way.

Okay, now that's it.

Yeah, Frank Brito.

That's interesting.

So in Portuguese, they would pronounce that Brito, not Brito,.

As a Spaniard would.

Well, actually, it depends on the...

All right, great.

Well, tell us about your church.

Well, our church is in southern Brazil.

We have been here and we are

part...

Obviously, as a true Calvinist, you would say that God used him as the earthly instrument.

Oh, yes, amen.

It's really God's providence.

And this is a very conservative, I'm assuming, Presbyterian Church, very

confessional.

And would you also share Dr. Morecraft's.

Theonomic and Reconstructionist views?

Oh, yes, that's one of the main reasons I'm there.

It's very conservative.

I understand

you do not yet have a website, but

folks can find out more about.

You on Facebook.

Yes.

And how would they find you on Facebook?

What would they type in?

Well, just type in the name of our church and spell it.

And Campobom is spelled C

-A -M -P -O -B -O -M.

Well, before we launch into the specific subject we are addressing today, how

eschatology affects missions and church planting and the challenges of both in Brazil,

since you are a first -time guest, as we always do on this program, I'd like you to

give us a summary of your salvation testimony, including the kind of religious

atmosphere you were raised in and what kind of providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that.

Drew

you to Himself

and

saved

you.

Okay.

We came

back

to

Brazil.

When you

say

our, who are you

referring to?

Okay, I was referring to my family.

You mean your parents and your siblings?

Oh, yeah.

At the time, I had not yet turned 18.

It was just before turning 18.

And it was my mother.

Are you saying New York City?

Yeah, New York City.

Okay.

For some reason, I thought you said France before.

Did I misunderstand something?

Oh, no, not France.

All right.

I don't know how I

got France in my life.

Okay.

Praise God for that.

How did you discover Reformed theology?

Well, the first, when I became a Christian, I came back to Brazil

to read

the Gospel of John.

When

you

say

that was in the

back of your mind,.

Are you talking about just from what you were reading and

hearing read from the text?

Or did you have some kind of experience hearing or reading a Reformed

preacher or theologian before this?

No, up to that point, I had

never heard of an

estimate.

You said

up until the point in your.

Story that obviously non -Reformed people were saying, oh, that's not what's in there.

You're.

Misreading it.

You're isageating this or something.

Yeah, they were telling me that that was the wrong way to understand it.

And I would

accept that.

Understanding

of

the

Portuguese

language,.

Which is the dominant language of both Portugal and Brazil.

Were your parents from Brazil?

Is that.

What gave

you a

heart and

passion

for that

country?

Oh, yes.

In New

York City, which of the five boroughs are you

speaking about?

Well, I lived in Queens.

Okay.

A story of Queens.

Yeah.

And as I remind my friends from Queens and Brooklyn, since I am a

native Long Islander, although I live in Pennsylvania now, Carlisle, Pennsylvania, I am a native Long

Islander, and I always remind my friends from Queens and Brooklyn, you are Long Islanders, too.

You don't cross a bridge to get to Manhattan.

Now we are reaching the point in our discussion where we are addressing the theme today,

how eschatology affects missions and church planting.

And we will continue after that into the challenges of both of those in Brazil, the unique challenges.

But why don't you define eschatology for those of our listeners who are perhaps new

Christians.

They've never heard that term.

Perhaps they're not even Christians at all.

So just define that for.

Us.

Okay.

The word

eschatology,

obviously,

since you are

the one who chose

to speak on this subject,.

You believe this has a powerful effect on both missions and church planting.

And even before we get to that point, we might as well spill the beans.

If our listeners didn't already guess when you said that you've learned much of what you

believe from Dr. Joe Morecraft, and you've described yourself as not only a Presbyterian, but a theonomist and a

Christian Reconstructionist, you are post -millennial, aren't you?

Yes, I am.

And I just thought we might as well spill the beans on that so people wouldn't be distracted by trying to guess

or wondering where you're coming from.

So tell us both in a negative and a positive way

how you think eschatology affects missions and then church planting.

Let's start with the negative, and then you could go on as we continue the discussion.

Into

the

positive

things

and why this

really matters.

All

right.

Are

we

beginning?

Yes.

Well, I can guess a negative way right off the top of my head

that eschatology can affect church

planting, can affect missions, can affect a lot of things, even general

evangelism.

If you have an overly pessimistic eschatology, and that is

coupled with the fact that you believe the church is going to be

rescued off of this sinful planet very soon, and many would

say alive today that are hosting television and radio

programs and writing books on the end times or the last days, many of them, if

not the vast majority of them, and perhaps even all of them, who are

more towards a bent of dispensationalism and also

very pessimistic about their eschatology, they would say that Christ's return for the

church, at least, the rapture, as they would refer to it, the

secret rapture, that's going to happen within our lifetime.

So, if you think that Christ is with certainty

going to be coming to rescue the church off of this planet any day, and

it could be within this year,

but it's certainly going to be soon, you may be not

focused on other parts of the mission of the church that is our

duty to fulfill here on this planet.

If you think it's going to be a waste of time because we're going to be raptured away very, very,

very soon, that's going to have a negative impact on being salt and light in the world,

is it not?

If the person who believes that is logically consistent on those beliefs, there are

many dispensationalists that don't behave that way, but I think it's because of the fact that,

thankfully, they're not logically consistent.

But anyway, go ahead.

Well, yes, you think

you

have, as

a part of

that whole

concept,

what

other things

are

being.

Hindered or harmed in the life and duty of

Christians individually in the church as a whole.

By having

an

overly

pessimistic

eschatology?

I

think

we have

the

power

to

do it,

but as a church,.

Positive ways, does eschatology affect the life of

Christian individuals in the church?

Well,

there are many

positive

ways.

We can begin

talking

about great -grandchildren.

Let's pick up right where you left off there.

We have to go to our first break right now.

If anybody has a question of your own on eschatology, on the

end times, on the last things, the last days, and how our

understanding of those things affects missions and church planting, and also how

they involve the unique challenges in Brazil in

both missions and church planting, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and

private matter, and I understand that there may be some in the audience who are

thinking through some of these things that we are addressing, and you are in a church, for instance,

that is vehemently anti -post -millennial or even amillennial for that matter,

and you really don't want to identify yourself at this point anyway.

Well, I understand those things.

You might even be a pastor going through these same challenges in your

thinking, and you don't want to identify yourself because even your fellow elders may

disagree with you or your denomination.

Whatever the case may be, we understand in circumstances like that you would want to remain anonymous,

but if it's just a general question on eschatology, on missions,

on church planting, on Brazil, on the scriptures, if it's just a general question,

please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Frank Brito right after these.

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guest today.

Frank Brito, who is a translator, missionary, church planter and pastor in Brazil.

Today we are discussing, if you just tuned us in, how eschatology affects missions and church planting

and the challenges of both in Brazil.

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One of the other things that I have known and I have heard from

missionaries, especially missionaries who were formerly a

part of a non -reformed denomination who sent them out.

Those with overly pessimistic eschatology and, on top of that,

those outside of a reformed understanding of God's sovereignty

over all things, including salvation, they tend to, these mission boards and these denominations, tend to be

very impatient with missionaries they send out.

And if they do not see numeric growth rather quickly, they will very often

yank them off of that mission field.

Do you believe that what you are talking about today is one of those positive

things, actually it's both when you think about it, because on one side it's a positive thing if you have an

optimistic eschatology in regard to missions because you're going to be more patient.

You're going to say, I might not even be used of God within my own

lifetime to bring about enormous growth in a particular area, but

I know that those from out of every tribe, tongue, and people, and nation are going to come to

Christ, and therefore the seeds that I am planting here in this foreign

land, I believe that they are going to bear fruit, even if it's not while I'm alive.

Whereas the negative effect concerning the one

who is overly pessimistic in his eschatology, they're going to be not only impatient themselves, but those who

sent them are going to be impatient typically and say, okay, that's enough, get out.

They're not looking at the big picture because they think everything's going to be over

very, very soon, especially in regard to the church's work on this

planet.

So have I made sense so far?

Oh yes, totally.

All right, let's get into right now specifically Brazil and the

unique challenges that you have faced in regard to missions and church planning.

And the challenges?

Yeah, the dominant religions of the culture that might oppose what you are

teaching, you know, a lot of things that are going on there.

Yeah,

well

Brazil,

that

with...

Well, if you could, because this word is used a lot,

probably especially amongst Reformed Christians, but not exclusively, please

define worldview.

What does that exactly mean?

Okay, in simple terms, a worldview that

you...

A contrasting theology and a contrasting worldview.

From, let's just take the dominant religion where you are, Roman Catholicism,

what would be the dominant problems with a Roman Catholic worldview that would conflict

with what you're saying?

Well, one of the chief characteristics...

You're

going to

become Christian,

you know, things like

that, even

the church and that...

Yeah, one might be able to compare

socialism in a political way with Roman Catholicism in a religious way because

both...

Yeah.

Both entities basically say, trust us, we

will take care of everything for you.

Yes, we're the specialists.

Yes, Roman Catholicism did not even encourage

private scripture or study until the 60s after Vatican II,

and then that gave birth to all different kinds of movements, the Charismatic Catholic Movement and so on.

And by the way, there are people out there who think that

Charismatic Catholics are somehow closer to the truth

than the traditional mainline Catholics and perhaps more Protestant.

I have found that not to be the case at all.

In fact, Charismatic Catholics...

Oh, I don't agree with that either.

Yeah, very often Charismatic Catholics tend to be more involved in Marian

devotion and things like that.

But having said that, and I'm not broad -brushing,

there are people who are Roman Catholic who have intense personal

Bible studies in their lives that are devoted to

reading and studying the scriptures.

So I'm not saying that this applies to everybody, but you will

know if you are a Catholic long enough that those that dominate

the population of Catholicism, they leave that up to the priests.

They really don't delve into the scriptures.

In fact, honest Roman Catholic apologists have actually

mildly rebuked their own audiences over this fact, especially if they happen to

be Catholics that were formerly Protestant.

But I have to go to our midway break right now.

If you have a question of your own that you'd like to ask Frank Brito

about how eschatology affects church

missions and church planting, and also we'll be getting more involved in some of the unique challenges in

Brazil, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please be patient with us as this is the longer than normal break in the middle of the show.

Use this time wisely by writing down as much of the information as you

can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more successfully and more frequently respond to what we have to say.

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We will be right back after these messages, so don't go away.

Hello dear ones, my name is Justin Peters, and my friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron

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Before I return to our discussion today with Frank Brito who is a

translator, a missionary, a church planter, and a

pastor in Brazil and our discussion is on how eschatology affects missions and church

planting.

Before I return to that discussion, I just have a couple of important announcements to make.

If you are a man in ministry leadership, I ask of you please to

do whatever you can to rearrange your schedule in order to be in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on Monday,

September 27th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in

Carlisle.

I am having my next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon there at the Bongiorno Center

and it is going to be, I am anticipating, one of the best

luncheons that we've ever had because my favorite preacher on the planet Earth,

and I'm not exaggerating, Dr. Conrad M. Bayway, who is pastor of

Kabwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, he is going to be my guest speaker

at the next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon.

So not only are you going to be fed for free and hear Dr. M. Bayway for free,

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So I really hope that you can be there Monday, September 27th,

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Pennsylvania.

For more details, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail

.com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject

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I hope to see you there.

Also, folks, continue to pray for my sister -in -law Jan,

the widow of my late brother John, who just passed away and entered into

eternity with Christ several weeks ago.

Jan is in the hospital battling COVID and

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weeks, and apparently the doctors believe she's going to be remaining there for a number of

weeks at least, maybe months, maybe longer.

Please pray for her, pray for her physically and spiritually.

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Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church that's biblically faithful,

theologically sound, doctrinally solid, I have lists,

extensive lists, spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches, and I may be able

to help you find a church in the world where you live.

I have helped many people in our audience in all parts of the world find churches, sometimes even within a few minutes of their

houses, that they didn't even know existed or they didn't know that the churches that they passed by every day were theologically

sound.

So, no matter where you live, and that includes Brazil now,

send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you could send in questions to our guest today, Frank Brito,

who is a translator, a missionary, a church planter, and pastor in Brazil,

and we are talking about how eschatology affects missions and church planting.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com,

and send in your question, and give us at least your first name, your city and

state, and country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And we have an anonymous questioner who is remaining

anonymous because his family is Roman Catholic.

He doesn't want to offend them right at this point, but he

is saying, in regards to the Catholicism that you are surrounded by in

Brazil, is it different in any meaningful way from the Catholicism

you experienced in New York?

I know that sometimes when people go abroad, especially in Latin American countries,

they find a striking difference in the level of idolatry that takes place

and the level of ferocious attachment to Roman Catholicism that exists,

whereas here in the United States, there are probably a

predominant number of Catholics that are more nominal, and perhaps have even been

Protestantized, and not so often in good ways.

I'm speaking more to the effect of blending in with modern wishy -washy evangelicalism.

But if you could, tell us what your own experiences are in Brazil.

In

regards

to

Catholicism.

Okay,

that's

a

good...

Having said

all

that

you

said

about

the

church,.

The Roman Catholic church, that is, having less they need in their minds

to capitulate to the whims of the non -Roman Catholic

surroundings that they have, how, if at all,

do Roman Catholic priests and bishops and any in authority

publicly address the adopting of

Roman Catholics in Brazil of the pagan

culture?

Now, obviously, we as Protestants believe that much that is intrinsically

a part of Roman Catholicism is already pagan, but as far

as the African animism and idolatry and the

specific things that have their origins outside of Catholicism, that

have been incorporated to the piety and devotion and worship of Roman Catholics in Brazil,

how is the church standing.

Against that, if at all?

Well, I think that's that capitulation.

That's actually how they would

be

something

that

the...

B .B. in

Cumberland

County,

Pennsylvania,

and B

.B. says,

how do

you

respond.

To the opponents of post -millennialism who say that it is a

product of 19th century liberalism that

taught that things would just keep getting better and better and better, much in the

same line as Darwinian evolution, that things just progressively improve,

and therefore post -millennialism is just a part of that false liberal concept?

Okay,

that's

a

good question,

and I would

say

that...

And

it

is

interesting,

I'm

no

historian,.

But from my cursory knowledge of history, during the rise

of the biblical critics, the textual critics and

leftism coming out of Germany, especially, and beginning to pour into the United

States and England, there was a decline in post -millennialism.

That's when...

Yeah, I mean, the 19th century is the era in which dispensationalism was

born.

Pre -tribulationalism did not even exist before the 19th century.

Pre -millennialism did, but it

was not a dominant eschatology throughout the prior

18 centuries, and so therefore

it can't be a product of 19th century liberalism, because

that's when.

Post -millennialism nearly disappeared.

Yeah, I would say that post -millennialism...

John and Bangor Maine, who says, some enemies of post

-millennialism accuse post -millennialists of being far too

involved in ecumenism with Roman Catholics and those of other religions

who are trying to change the culture for the better in

regards to things like the holocaust of abortion and same

-sex marriage and other things that all Christians who love the Lord and his word should

vehemently and adamantly oppose, but the problem comes

when we link arms with those who reject the gospel and Christianize them merely because they

agree on the social and moral aspects of the fight being fought.

Would you agree that post -millennialists far too often do link arms with those

who reject the gospel in order to.

Rescue and transform the world?

Well, I think that there may be, and

I think

it is,.

Stern Suffolk County says that I have heard those who reject post

-millennialism accuse it of works righteousness in

that the world will be Christianized through human effort.

How is

one

to respond to

such

accusations?

Well,

that

accusation

means that I

did God...

To our final break, if you have a question, send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us the first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away, we're going to be right back with Frank Brito right after.

These messages.

Hi,

I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media.

Ministry of John MacArthur.

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the G3

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The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all.

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Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd.

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Well, before we run out of time, I want to have priority in

your summation of what you think is most important about this topic before I take any more

listener questions.

So let us know what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we run out of time today.

Well, Matthew 28, his apostles...

By the way, just a word.

One of our previous questioners was asking how

to counteract or respond to the

accusations that the post -millennialism

involves works righteousness because they claim that through human effort

the world will be converted and Christianized.

Well, the thing that's somewhat ironic about that accusation is that the vast majority of

post -millennialists are Reformed, and Reformed Christians don't even

believe that their own will, the will that

exists in the heart and mind of a unregenerate,

lost individual who has a heart of stone, we don't even believe that is involved

in our salvation, let alone the salvation of others.

So it's actually somewhat comical that Reformed people could be accused of

believing in works righteousness.

I've even heard some anti -Calvinists say that about

perseverance in the saints, the fact that we believe that persevering is a

sign of someone truly being of the elect and truly being justified,

that persevering involves some kind of works righteousness, which is ridiculous because we believe

that it is God that is preserving us.

God himself is the one preserving us.

So, you know, these are easily refuted accusations, especially

when you're talking...

Go ahead.

And by the way, folks, you might

hear me, you're listening to the show today,.

You might think that I am also a post -millennialist.

I have not yet been convicted or convinced of that position.

I am not anti -post -millennial.

Many of my guests are post -millennial, and I love post -millennialist

preachers, teachers, theologians, scholars, and authors.

I would consider myself an optimistic amillennialist, but I am also open to the fact that I might

one day become a post -millennialist.

I just wanted to throw that out there because some people think that I'm always identically in

agreement with my guests because I'm affirming so much of what they are saying.

We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, who happens to be a

very faithful supporter and listener of this program.

Greetings, brothers.

Are the biblical Christians persecuted by their families and friends?

I'm assuming he means in Brazil, and I'm not really sure what level of

persecution he's speaking about.

And then he asked the second question, how big of a problem was slavery in Brazil?

So let's start with the persecution.

First of all, what kind of persecution of believers exists in Brazil, and is this

happening by the born -again.

Believers'

own

family

and

friends?

He was asking about the history of Brazil in regard to slavery.

How big of a problem was slavery?

It was much, much, much a bigger problem than it was in the United

States.

It was a country in the

New World.

What

is the

ethnic

diversity.

Like in Brazil?

Obviously, it's considered a part of the Latin American countries, but

are there a large number of African descendants, Caucasians, etc.?

What is the diversity like?

It all depends on what

part of the

country.

I believe the boys from Brazil are definitely.

From German descent.

I'm only kidding.

That's a movie that I won't go into right now.

But we are actually out of time right now, and I want to make sure that you provide any contact

information that our listeners can use to get in touch with you if they care to.

Well, if they enter...

Specific website that Frank Britta was speaking about is

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Mona, thank you so much, Frank, for being an excellent guest today.

I want to thank everybody who listened.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a

sinner.