Closing Arguments, White vs. Zaatari

Jesus Is Not God by the Muslim Argument

Debate, but now we have shown that Jesus is not God for two reasons. They admit that Jesus added to his nature and that's a nature change whether you like it or not and the God of the Bible says my nature does not change.

Then we have Mary. Crystal clearly she didn't believe Jesus was God and he acknowledged it. He knew you couldn't get away with it. The Old Testament says a virgin will give birth. You say that the one she gives birth to is God.

It happens word for word and she doesn't believe that he's God. You cannot escape this point. You cannot escape the point that during the light. Notice in tonight's debate I've brought in more information from the lips of Jesus, from the times of Jesus, more than he has.

I'm going to the people who walked with Jesus. I showed you none of them believed he was God. He keeps going to outside sources after Jesus left which I still quoted from Acts. Peter is saying Jesus is a man.

So either way they still didn't believe it and again during his lifetime they did not believe he was God. That point remains. You cannot refute that fact. During the lifetime of Jesus what did they debate?

God or prophet? Neither. Messiah or prophet? You can't refute that. Sorry. Then he brings up the point about John 1 .1. Notice we spent half of that time on John 1 .1 which isn't even Jesus speaking. Notice that?

I'm not saying John supports his view but notice the interesting point there that we spent half of the Q &A on what John said and then on what Hebrews said. And I don't have a problem with Hebrews. I'm not saying they're bad guys.

I'm just saying okay they said these things. Brilliant. Show me where Jesus said these things to back their view up. The Quran says Jesus is a prophet. He says I don't go to someone 600 years later. True.

But if that person 600 years later is making points that are being backed up from the lips of the person himself then he has a point. You keep quoting. He even admitted when he quoted Colossians 1 he refuted himself by mistake.

He said did Moses ever say such a thing? Did Jesus say such a thing? No he didn't. Then he changed his argument and he said well did someone in the time of Moses say such a thing about Moses which proves my point.

I have no problem with Hebrews, with Timothy, etc. I repeat quote them but back them up with the words of Jesus. Notice the circular reasoning. Jesus is God because the New Testament says so. Where's the proof from Jesus himself?

You haven't showed it to us. And then the word was God and it became flesh. Yes. Allah says be and it is. The word manifests itself. Allah says be. He created. All of this is God's Word. He simply said be and it becomes.

That's that's how you explain it. And then what about all the other Christians who don't interpret John 1 according to his Trinitarian view. That the definite article is missing. Now he'll argue and they'll argue but it doesn't matter because let's just go to Jesus.

So the definite article is missing before it says and the word was God. Let us assume that the definite article isn't missing. Let's assume that the word is called God. Well if anyone studies the Bible they will know that many men are called God as well.

Isn't it strange that in the Bible being called God doesn't make you God in the absolute sense? Unlike the Quran when you're called when Allah says Allah he only refers to himself. In the Bible when you're called God it doesn't really mean you're the true absolute God.

And that's how we can easily interpret John 1. Jesus never said I'm God. He said I'm a prophet a Messiah. So if he's called God we understand that in the sense of the Old Testament like when Moses was called God.

Basically a servant a prophet but not the true absolute God because Jesus fails all the criteria. Would a mere Rasul say this? Would the Almighty God come out of a womb? Out of a vagina? I'm sorry I nor the Muslims will ever accept such a belief.

And then a last point. He says we Muslims do this because the Quran disagrees. Wrong. We do this because it's the truth. What about all the Christians who aren't Muslims who interpret things like I do?

Are they doing it because the Quran told them? No because it's the truth. That's what you get when you read the Bible. So Dr. White has failed to show us where Jesus says I am God and he has to show it because the Old Testament God time and time again says he's God.

Dr. White has failed us. He failed to show us anywhere in the four Gospels where people believed he was God. He only can show you doubting Thomas. Another Trinitarian says no. This is even under dispute.

He can't show us any of these things. So who does he go to outside the four Gospels? I argue on the lips of Jesus. And another point. He said the Prophet Muhammad never said I am a prophet. Wrong. Go read the Hadiths.

I'm not a Qurani heretic. I believe in the Hadiths. The Quran says follow the Hadiths. The Hadiths show the Prophet saying in crystal clear Arabic I am the last prophet. So he does say it. You can't show us where Jesus said it.

So you've been refuted there as well. So yes go home and examine the facts. Go to a Christian website named biblicalunitarian .com. They have responses to every point he brought. I can't respond to all of them but they have it all on John 1 1, on all of it.

Isn't it ironic that in Hebrews which he quotes, Jesus is said to have a God. In Hebrews chapter 1 I believe. Isn't that interesting? He goes to Hebrews to try to prove that Jesus is God. Yet the author of Hebrews says that Jesus has a God.

Yeah I'm gonna worship Jesus as my God and I'm gonna worship his God as well. That doesn't make any sense. It only makes sense if Jesus isn't God which is why he has a God. Time please. And thank you.

Closing Response and Audience Judgment

Thank you. Once.

Again I thank all of you for being here late into the evening. I thank you for your attention. I would like to thank Sammy Zottery for being here this evening. I would like to give him a couple of gifts.

There's a book by a friend of mine Daniel Wallace and some friends called Reinventing Jesus. A scholarly work on a lot of the attacks upon Jesus these days and and a book that I wrote called The Forgotten Trinity and I would like to give these to Sammy.

I hope you can see through some of the the bluster that we've heard this evening. I don't see any reason to talk about oh I've refuted you here and refuted you there. You're the judges this evening and it is up to you to determine who is rightly handling the word, who looks at context, who looks at background and who's using the same standards in applying their arguments to one side or the other.

We just heard all sorts of non-Christians say as if they're Christians. Muslims, if a person does not believe Muhammad is a prophet, is he a Muslim? Okay so if I started quoting Orientalists who don't believe Muhammad was a prophet and calling them Muslims, would you be offended?

Then why are you quoting Unitarians to me? To redefine Christianity, all sorts of Christians disagree about these things. Does that provide an answer to what I have pointed out in John 1 .1? No. I debate those folks and refute them too.

You had no response provided to John 1 .1. You had no response provided to the fact that Jesus identified as Yahweh and to stand here before you and say oh he's never shown you where anybody believed Jesus was God.

Well I just refer you to the opening statements, the opening presentations, texts like Titus 2 .13, 2nd Peter 1 .1, our great God and Savior Jesus Christ where that is not the case. I've also pointed you to the words of Jesus and I ask you a simple question.

Sammy just said oh you see I go to the words of Jesus and they're consistent with that book that comes 600 years later. Where in the Quran do you ever find Jesus saying these words, and now glorify me Father together with yourself with the glory which I had in your presence before the world came into existence.

Which surah is that? A missing ayah perhaps? Maybe Uthman missed that one? No. The fact of the matter is Jesus spoke those words and no mere Razul would ever dare to claim that in eternity past he was the object of the glory of God and then say to God as a man upon earth glorify me.

That's what Jesus says and that's why his disciples described him in the way that they did. That's why Paul describes him in Colossians 2 .9 as all the fullness of deity dwelling in him in bodily form.

That's why the writer to Hebrews, he just mentioned Hebrews chapter 1, I exhort my Muslim friends take the time to read Hebrews chapter 1. Absorb it. Look at the Old Testament passages it cites. See the description of Jesus as the final revelation of God.

As the Son of God. Isn't that contradictory to surah 112? Isn't it? I think it is. As the Son of God, the creator of all things. Did all things, were all things created by Jesus? The Bible says it clearly in Colossians 115 Hebrews chapter 1.

And then it says all the angels of God worship him. Do all the angels of God worship prophets? And then those words about the unchanging Yahweh from Psalm 102 25 -27 are applied by the author to Jesus.

There is only one way my friends that those words could be written and that is that the person who wrote them believed in the absolute full deity of Jesus Christ. Making the same distinction we do between the Father and the Son.

And that is what I have presented to you this evening. We have seen if we step aside from the rancor and the claims of oh I refute you there and I refute you there and leave it to you the audience. Show you the respect to allow you to examine the argumentation.

When you do so you see from the beginning and end of the New Testament that in every single book Jesus either says and does things in the Gospels or is described by his followers in what follows. In ways that could never fit the Muslim Jesus.

That's why when I debate for example Shabir Ali as I have debated him before he simply dismisses these New Testament texts. They're not inspired. They're later corruptions. They have to because they recognize that there is no possible way for there to be harmony between this text and the text of the Quran.

They contradict each other. I submit to you that the writer of the Quran did not know that. And only later generations came to realize it and therefore as a result began to attack the validity and text of the New Testament.

And so I say to you this evening when we look at the sources that have any meaningful claim as having anything to do with Jesus what do we discover? We discover that they uniformly without question testify that Jesus Christ was not a mere Rasul.

Yes he was a prophet, Lamb of God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. But he was not the Muslim Jesus. He was the Jesus of the New Testament. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. The first and the last.

And he is the one who says he gives life to whom he will. If you're a Muslim here this evening I want you to understand the reason that we do all of this. It is our prayer that in his mercy and his grace this great Savior, your creator, would be pleased to give you life.

We give ourselves in service to him so that we might see that blessed event. Thank you very much.