March 13, 2019 Show with Justin Peters on “Sanctification Through Suffering: One Christian’s Refusal to be Deterred or Defeated by Cerebral Palsy”

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March 13, 2019: JUSTIN PETERS, evangelist, conference speaker & founder of Justin Peters Ministries, who will address: “SANCTIFICATION THROUGH SUFFERING: One Christian’s Refusal to be Deterred or Defeated by CEREBRAL PALSY”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors
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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today
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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another
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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation
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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours
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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host
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Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,
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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com
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This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 13th day of March 2019 and I am so thrilled to have back as a returning guest today one of my favorite guests
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Justin Peters He is an evangelist a conference speaker and founder of Justin Peters ministries
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We are going to be addressing the theme of sanctification through suffering one Christians refusal to be deterred or defeated
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By cerebral palsy, and we're also going to be announcing the upcoming conference on the theme of sanctification through suffering
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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio Justin Peters Hey Chris, it's an honor to be back with you brother always enjoy our time together and I appreciate you having me back home
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It's my pleasure and your commendation for iron sharpens on radio is one of my most prized possessions
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And I thank you for writing that for us Probably a year or so ago, and I'm just thrilled to and honored to have that featured on our website and Absolutely, well,
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I'm in every word of it. Well, I appreciate it brother. Uh, well First of all, let's hear something about Justin Peters ministries for our listeners, especially that are discovering you for the first time
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Okay. All right, Chris Yes, I am a full -time evangelist.
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A lot of people think I'm a pastor I'm not I have a pastor, but I am NOT a pastor an evangelist an itinerant preacher and My first love is expositional preaching preaching
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God's Word verse by verse But I suppose what I'm most known for is my work
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That is a critique of the word of faith movement as well as the
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New Apostolic Reformation the health and wealth name and enclavement prosperity gospel people like Benny Hinn and Joel Osteen and Bill Johnson at Bethel Church in Redding, California Joyce Meyer Todd White These kind of individuals just you plant a scruple of dollar on and on and in other words
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Most of the people you see on Christian television, not not all of them, but but the vast majority
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Networks like TV and they start inspiration network and these others so that's kind of what
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I'm most known for my seminar clouds without water is a biblical critique of this movement, but That's by no means my only interest in and people think all
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I do is watch TV and all day long So I really don't first love is just preaching
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God's Word verse by verse but so um, but yeah, I travel across the United States and Internationally as well.
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I think I've preached in 25 different countries now some of them multiple times so God's been very gracious and open up opening up these doors for me and and I just love to see the light come on with people when they're exposed to the truth of God's Word and you see the truth resonate with God's sheep and and Just thrills my soul.
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So that's that's uh, that's it in a nutshell well, I Hope to remember to keep repeating this website
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This is a very important website that every buddy listening should have On file somewhere, but it's
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Justin Peters org Justin Peters org and you will discover a wealth of information there and God willing this isn't set in stone yet because Justin and I just started to communicate about this
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Just moments before the show started, but God willing Justin will be the
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January 2020 Speaker at the next or I shouldn't say the next next year's
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Iron Sherpins iron pastors luncheon. So mark that down somewhere to remind me
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Not to remind me but to to ask me more information about that as we get closer to that date and we have
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More details finalized as to the exact date and all those other specifics The next
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Iron Sherpins iron radio pastors luncheon is going to be held God willing May 23rd of This year featuring.
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Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary, where he is the professor of apologetics in Islam and he is a reformed
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Baptist and a really phenomenal Preacher and teacher and speaker and lecturer and I'm sure you will love dr.
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Costa But as I said, hopefully in 2020 in January, we will have Justin Peters join us
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Now let us know something about this conference. The first one that you will be a part of the you're on the speaking roster at the sanctification through suffering conference in Freehold, New Jersey.
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Tell us about that Yes, Christopher Chris, I'm looking forward to this that is coming up here in just a few days
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March 15th through the 16th It is the sanctification through suffering conference,
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I will be one of the speakers along with Frank Wallace Joe Sousa, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing his last name correctly or not
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It's calling sharp and I've been hosted by striving for eternity ministries
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That's headed by Andrew Rappaport. And so we're really really looking forward to this and You know, it's a conference on suffering which may not sound real enjoyable or real
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Exciting I suppose I don't I'm not sure how many conferences I've seen that are geared around suffering, but It's a reality of life, right?
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We all suffer. It's just a consequence of living in a fallen world and so we're going to be
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Taking this topic and we're going to be looking at it from a thoroughly Biblical perspective
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What is suffering? Why do we suffer is God aware of our suffering? Is he in control of our suffering?
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Can we be sanctified through our suffering? What is the purpose of suffering? And so we're going to be looking at all of these issues
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Dealing from a biblical perspective and the Bible has much to say about suffering so I'm looking forward to it.
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I think by God's grace. It'll be a profitable time That it will edify the
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Saints encourage the Saints. So we're looking forward to it Chris Amen, and you say that it doesn't sound like a very joyful topic but in reality those who are suffering so those who are going through a heartbreaking trial of some kind they may wind up rejoicing while they're there because They may find purpose in their suffering for the first time in their lives
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The fact that it is titled sanctification through suffering obviously
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Intends to convey the biblical idea that our suffering is not purposeless as I think those who deny the doctrines of grace,
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I think that If they deny God's sovereignty over all things. I have a hard time understanding how they can come to the conclusion
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That suffering can always have a purpose and a good purpose for a Christian. It doesn't always have a good purpose for everybody
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But it has good purposes for Christians or those that the Lord is drawing to himself before they're saved but People may wind up having hearts overflowing with joy while they are in attendance and after they leave
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Yes. Yes. That's certainly what we're praying for Chris and you're exactly right And Charles Spurgeon if this isn't a direct quote, it's kind of a paraphrase he said the sovereignty of God is the pillow upon which
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I lay my head at night and without an understanding of God's sovereignty without a robust understanding of that that he is
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Sovereign that he is in control that nothing can come our way that is outside of of his will or his permissive will at least
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I Would I would despair Chris, honestly, I if I did not have a robust understanding of God's sovereignty
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I would I would truly despair in this life because it is it is so full of suffering, of course some people suffer more acutely than others, but Knowing that God is in control that gives me confidence when
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I face suffering that gives me confidence and joy in the midst of Suffering knowing that there is a reason for it.
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God does have a purpose for it and one of the points That I will make in the conference
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Many people are familiar with Romans 8 28 But we know that God causes all things to work together for the good for those who love him who those who are called according to his purpose we a
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Lot of people think that that first says that all things are good But that's not what the verse says
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It does not say that all things are good because all things are not good, you know
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It's not good when a person is left a quadriplegic in a car accident
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It's not good when someone gets multiple sclerosis. It's not good
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When a child gets cancer, these are not good things So all things aren't good but God in his sovereignty in his good providence
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Does work all things together? for the good and So that's an important thing to keep in mind and all suffering whatever facet it takes
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However, it manifests itself is a result of us living in a fallen world
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Joke says that man is short -lived and born for trouble as the sparks fly upward so in other words just as naturally as Like when you when you have a campfire and you throw a log on it or stoke it with the poker or whatever
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The sparks fly upward just as naturally as that happens suffering is just that natural living in a fallen world it is the fallen state of Creation as a whole it's the fallen state of man or fallen heart our fallen bodies our fallen wills our fallen intellects
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That creates suffering. So it's just a natural and unavoidable part of life
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James says Counted all joy my brethren when you encounter various trials not if you encounter various trials
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So it's just we all suffer To varying degrees, but we all suffer and so we need to understand this from a biblical perspective so that that when it comes we're prepared for it and One of the things that I want to stress in my teaching at the conference is that we need to have our theology
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Right. We need to have our theology in place before The the real suffering comes and don't don't wait until you're in the midst of a trial until you're in the midst of some season of intense suffering
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To try to get your theology, right? You can get it right now You don't want to try to build a house in the middle of a storm.
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You want to have your house built and Grounded before the storm comes. So when the storm does come
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You'll be ready for it. And so this is why Theology and doctrine are so very important.
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Yeah, there's another key element to Romans 828 and many times well -meaning
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Christians perhaps And perhaps greeting card companies that are run by people that aren't even
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Christians at all, but who love Romans 828 at least part of it that all things work together for the good
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But obviously that's not the end of the story the full Text reads for those who love
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God and are the cold according to his purpose not every human being can look at their infliction and their suffering in their trials and Take comfort that it is for their good if they are headed for hell
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This is not the case unless Unbeknownst to them and all of us around them.
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They are one of the elect that is not yet born again and is being drawn to But but but a lost person person cannot hold on to this as a promise to him or her can they
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No, no, they can't no They can't Romans 828 is specifically for believers and someone who is outside of Christ who has no affections for Christ no affections for the thing of God things of God does not have that promise at all and and it is no wonder that So many people end up taking their lives when they go through some kind of Severe trial because if you if you don't have
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If you don't have your confidence rooted in the sovereign God, then it would indeed seem meaningless purposeless it seemed like you're suffering in vain for no reason and There would be nothing.
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There's nothing inherently within a person himself or herself was outside of Christ to be able to endure
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Suffering and see God's purpose in it. So yes, it would be a very disparate despairing place to be in indeed
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That is why it's foolish and unbiblical and something that you can never find anywhere in the pages of Scripture Where a
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Christian is to approach a lost person and say to him or her God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life
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You would have to be you would have to be a prophet To know that God has a wonderful plan for each and every individual that we meet
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Because that tragically is not always the case either which goes hands and hands hand in hand with what we just said
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Exactly Chris, that's um, I can't remember maybe that was camp campus crusade for Christ or whoever was it came up with that approach that gospel
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Method of a Method of evangelizing people saying to them that God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life
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That's not something I would ever say to anyone and it's not even something
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I would say to a Christian without some Clarification because in and of itself that is true.
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God does love us and he does have wonderful plans for our lives but What God deems as wonderful may not always seem so Wonderful to us
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God had a wonderful plan for Peter's life The wonderful plan that God had for Peter's life was to be crucified upside down God had a wonderful plan for Stephen's life.
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The wonderful plan that God had for Stephen's life was to be stoned God had a wonderful plan for The life of the
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Apostle Paul and John the Baptist and the wonderful plan that God had for their lives was to be imprisoned and beheaded so God does indeed love us and he does indeed have wonderful plans for our lives
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But but what God deems is wonderful may not always seem so wonderful to us sometimes
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God is most glorified in us not when things are going well but when we are in the midst of suffering when we are in the midst of trials when we are in the midst of persecution when we are in the midst of sickness and Yet through the suffering through the sickness through the trials through the persecution
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We remain faithful to Christ and we think seek to point others to him and so sometimes
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God is most Glorified in us and in times like that not when everything is wonderful not when everything is just sunshine lollipops and unicorns all the time
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Well, I have to say that no portion of my life involves unicorns
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Well, unless unless unless you are Referring to The occasional trip to the zoo what that involves rhinoceroses or is it rhinoceri or I don't know how to say that in plural
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But it is believed that that is the original intention of That word unicorn was not a horse with wings and a horn.
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It was referring to rhinoceroses as originally Well this this
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Interview would not be complete especially regarding the subject matter of sanctification through suffering if we did not hone in on one of the main reasons in addition to your brilliance and your biblical wisdom and biblical literacy and knowledge
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One of the reasons that you have been Invited to be on the roster at this conference
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Sanctification through suffering is that you for the majority of your life? Have been battling with the infliction of cerebral palsy and People who have gotten to know you are just so impressed and perhaps even envious of The way that you handle yourself in public as a brother in Christ having this dilemma of cerebral palsy and Many of us do not fare nearly as well as you do with things infinitely less serious
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I could include myself in that number The the amount of times I grumble and complain now, obviously,
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I also do not hang out with you behind closed doors when you are alone and and in the privacy of your life you may
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Go through a great deal of difficulty Handling what you are Experiencing. I don't know but people that know you don't you don't wear that on your sleeve in public
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That's a sure but if you could tell our listeners all about this journey of yours from the moment you first knew or that your parents knew that you had cerebral palsy and Then continue on from there
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Sure, yes. Yes. I was actually born with cerebral palsy. So as best
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I understand the home condition If you're not born with CP, I don't think you're ever going to have it it report happens as a as a
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Consequence of something in the injury either just before birth or during birth or in my case the umbilical cord was
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Wrapped around my neck and cut off the blood flow to my brain and did some motor damage to my limbs and my
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Nervous system and whatnot. So I Guess you could say I've had cerebral palsy
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For my entire life except maybe the first nine months of it from conception to birth, but Yeah, my parents didn't know
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I had it until I was oh, I don't know Well, I don't think I was diagnosed with it until I was a year old
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But my parents knew they noticed that when the time came when I should have been sitting up I wasn't sitting up and the time came when
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I should have been crawling and I still wasn't sitting up So they knew that something was wrong. They took me back to the doctor
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That's when the doctor Diagnosed me with cerebral palsy So when
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I was about a year old So CP it has a wide range of effects
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Chris Some people with cerebral palsy you wouldn't even know they had it unless they told you it can be very very mild
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But on the other end of the spectrum it can be far far worse than the case that I have
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I Guess I have a moderate case of it. I can walk on crutches.
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I can't walk very far. I drag my feet pretty badly and sway when
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I when I walk but I can get around on crutches and I can dress myself
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I can feed myself and Takes me longer to do things than it does others it takes
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Well from start to finish that when I get up in the morning, I'm gonna shower and shave Brush my teeth and get dressed and hold nine yards and that's it's almost a two -hour process for me
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But I can do it and a lot of people cerebral palsy can't Some people in CP can't speak.
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In fact, I Know a young man Named Todd Arnold who lives in Missouri and he
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Todd I think excuse me Todd is his father Matt Arnold Matt is about he is about 25 years old now
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He has cerebral palsy. He has the same condition I do but far far worse. He He cannot dress himself.
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He cannot feed himself. He cannot give himself a drink of water. He He cannot move about on his own.
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He's completely and totally helpless and and Matt can't even speak He's completely nonverbal
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But he's just as intelligent as you or me or anybody else he is just trapped in a body that he can't control and I Cannot relate to that.
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I cannot imagine I Just can't imagine how how horrible that must be but but he loves the
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Lord. He loves Christ Because the greatest miracle that could ever be done in his life has already been done in his life when
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God saved when God saved him from a sin that is that is the greatest miracle of all and You know
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It is not It's not easy For me all the time to be in account.
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I can't imagine what it must be like for Matt and And I suppose
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Chris I've come not I'm not bitter about my handicap because I've never known anything different.
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I was born this way. This is my normal I think I can honestly say I've never really been bitter about it, but That does not mean that that it's that there haven't been hard times.
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There have been hard times and there are still hard times and I I love it in in James James chapter 1.
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In fact, this is a the text. I'll be preaching my primary text at the conference James says count it all joy my brethren
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When you encounter various trials knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance and let endurance habits perfect and resolve
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When James says count it all joy James does not say enjoy your trials
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That's not what he says. He says count them as Joy counted as joy when you encounter these trials of not that we are supposed to enjoy our trials
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You know Chris, I don't I don't always enjoy Having cerebral palsy. There are times when
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I wish I didn't Not bitter about my handicap. I hope
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I don't complain about it, but but it's not always easy and I would encourage people who may be listening right now, whatever the trial is and you're going through Please don't fall into this hyper spiritual trap
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That if you are going through a trial right now and you're not enjoying it That there's something wrong with you that that means you're not spiritual enough
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We're not supposed to enjoy trials trials by definition are not enjoyable. That's why they're called trials
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They're not meant to be enjoyed So it's not that we're supposed to enjoy our trials we're supposed to count them as joy knowing that Whether God removes the trial or whether he gives us his sufficient grace to remain underneath that trial
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That we can have joy Without enjoying the trial we can have joy
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Knowing that God is in control and that God is good He can never act towards us in any way that is incongruent with his character and his nature you reminded me of Something that a dear brother said to me and he was a dear brother.
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He's now with the Lord but I think in an effort to perhaps unconsciously be
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Super spiritual about matters And perhaps even intending to be comforting to me
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He said something that was rather foolish when I had discovered that my mother back in 1995 had pancreatic cancer with a very grim diagnosis of Six months to live as it turned out.
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She went home to be with the Lord six weeks after Her diagnosis rather than six months
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And and she was raised a Roman Catholic and had remained a Roman Catholic her entire life until six weeks
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Before entering eternity praise be to God. She embraced the true gospel
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She renounced prayer to Mary and in the Saints and was trusting She was trusting solely in the perfect Finished work of Christ on Calvary and and she expressed these things without coaching from me these naturally naturally flowed from her heart and mouth
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During the last six weeks of her life after being more heavily evangelized perhaps
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By me, but not not in any overbearing way But just in a conversational way and these things came out of her like a fountain.
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But anyway this brother this brother who Was in attendance at a prayer meeting before my mother died and I was asking for healing for her
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If it be God's will This brother after the the prayer meeting was over approached me and said brother just remember
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It's a sin for you to want your mother to live if it's the Lord's will for her to die
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And I said to him yes, that's true brother. But how do I know that's God's will until it happens?
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Well, she's still alive. I There's nothing wrong with me having hope and Nothing wrong with me praying that the
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Lord Miraculously delivers her from that death sentence, but it was not his will to do that and she is in heaven with Christ But that's the kind of foolish thing that it's a it's a good reminder to not only us but to others listening and to Perhaps that we can mildly and gently correct others when they say foolish things
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But but Christians even seasoned Christians can say very foolish things in an effort to encourage and comfort someone in a time of despair
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Don't they? Yeah. Yeah, they really can't Chris. They really can that's uh, you're exactly right.
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That was Definitively the wrong thing for him to say because you don't know none of us knows when our appointed time is and And there's nothing at all wrong with praying
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For someone to be healed of a sickness or a disease. I have some people on my prayer list that I pray for for healing but in doing so I also pray for God's will to be done and I also pray as I pray for myself that when
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God does not remove the trial fill in the blank whenever it may be that That if he does not remove it that that he will give me his sufficient grace to sustain me through the trial and That I would carry myself in such a way that honors him and glorifies him and points other people to him.
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So yeah, that was that was not a good that was not a good thing for for him to say at all and you know, none of us wants to see a loved one suffer and Truce when when
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God Wills for us to go we will go at our appointed time
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I've heard it said a missionary friend of mine in South Africa said I'm I am immortal until God takes me.
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That's right So Well said but none of us knows when that time is and we don't want to we don't none of us wants to see a loved one suffer and Leave us this side of heaven, but so nothing at all wrong praying that God would heal a loved one or a friend of sickness and disease, but Yeah, that's unfortunate if you would say that well the best of us say stupid things
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In fact, if anybody listens to orange up and Zion radio on a daily basis, they know that I say them probably every day
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I Tell you what, I'm grateful that some of the earlier sermons that I preached when
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I was much much younger and Much much dumber. I'm glad some of those sermons aren't recorded
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Well, we have to go to our first break right now if anybody would like to join us with a question for Justin Peters regarding regarding sanctification through suffering
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In fact anything that you want to ask Justin in regard to his ministry Our email address is
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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris a RN z e and a gmail .com
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Please as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the
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USA and Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
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Don't go away We'll be right back after these messages with more of Justin Peters and sanctification through suffering
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My name is Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries
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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Masters Seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students
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Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a
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Reformed Baptist Church that meets in Midtown, Manhattan You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc
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.nyc They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel
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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit
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New Covenant Church, NYC Again, their information can be found at www .ncc
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.nyc Have a great day Chris Arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine
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I'm dr. Gary Kimbrough pastor Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction and the providence
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Of God three years ago I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka Zambia in a township called
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Cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.
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What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away the situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this
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Need it came to me I trust from the Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food education and some medical services is $73 per month per child if just 50 of us would give $35 a month we could meet the need
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Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there So if you give a dollar a dollar we'll get to the orphans and the seasons of hope and giving will you consider giving hope?
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To 24 orphans, please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838
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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi Three nine four four three or donate through our website
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BBC Laurel calm again The address is Bethlehem Baptist Church eight three eight
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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi Three nine four four three or BBC Laurel calm.
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Thank you Chris Sorensen host of iron sharpens iron radio here.
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Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with less than 90 minutes to go is
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One of my favorite guests of all time Justin Peters He is the founder of Justin Peters ministries, and he is also
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Speaking at a conference in Freehold, New Jersey Very soon on the theme sanctification through suffering that's coming up actually this weekend
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Friday the 15th and Saturday the 16th of March and if you want more details on this conference go to striving for eternity .com
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That's striving for eternity .com. I'm sorry. It's striving for eternity org
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Striving for eternity org. I apologize to Andrew Rappaport and everybody over there It's driving for eternity striving for eternity org and you can find all of the information that you need on This conference if you would like to join us right now with a question of your own our email address is
43:59
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. We do have a number of people
44:05
Waiting to have their questions asked and answered But I am going to hold off for a little bit on them because they are not on the topic that we are addressing
44:14
So I will get to them God willing soon, but I just wanted to flesh out more of this
44:20
Specific topic that we are addressing on sanctification through suffering One of the things that goes through my mind is someone like you who was born with cerebral palsy you've never known anything else
44:35
You For lack of a better term, and I don't mean to be insulting in any way But you may be having an easier time and in fact you you are certainly having an easier time in life
44:48
Managing this because you've never known anything else than someone who has become inflicted with a medical or physical
45:00
Problem later in their lives that they've never experienced There are people out there who have been
45:08
Primely conditioned athletes People who have been at the top of their health and fitness strength and speed and endurance and stamina and skill in athletic endeavors who have been stricken with with things that have
45:29
Basically made them either temporarily or permanently give up those kinds of activities and perhaps even basic run -of -the -mill ordinary activities that Your average person goes through every day including even the elderly
45:44
They may not even be able to do things that Senior citizens can do with ease on a regular basis.
45:51
They are going to be typically hit harder Mentally and emotionally and even spiritually than someone like you would
45:59
I be jumping? Too far of a leap to come to that conclusion
46:06
No, not at all Chris. In fact, that's something I tell people often that very thing
46:11
I was born with cerebral palsy. I've never known anything different. This is my normal I think it would be far far harder to have been born able -bodied and then
46:24
Lose that lose your ability to move about on your own or do things whether through an accident or a
46:33
Progressive disease that you can track later on in life like multiple sclerosis or muscular dystrophy or something like that To know what it's like to be normal know what it's like to be able -bodied know what it's like to be able to get up and you know get dressed in a couple of minutes and run out the door or Take a walk around the block or something like that and then have that taken away from you
46:54
I think would be far far harder. And so that's a very fair point a very fair point
47:01
There are far worse things than Cerebral palsy Especially the degree of it that I have which is just kind of a moderate case.
47:10
So Yeah, it would be far more difficult to have been able but you know somebody like Johnny Erickson Tata.
47:17
She was born able -bodied and She had that diving accident I've known a number of people in fact, are you familiar with David Miller by chance?
47:27
Oh, I've not only interviewed David Miller on the show But I've also heard him preach at the g3 conference
47:33
And in fact the last time I was there I had the privilege of having my photograph taken with him Yeah, what a dear dear brother.
47:41
I can't even remember it Maybe you know, I can't even remember the name of his disease what he has I don't right now
47:47
Yeah, slow progressive thing that had he contracted I think as a young man. Yeah, he was he was a star athlete in high school
47:55
Yes, that's correct. And now he is of course. He's an older man now I think he's around 70 years old, but he is a quadriplegic in a wheelchair and and he can't do anything for himself
48:07
Physically, he can still speak but that's about it. That's that's all I can do it and as you probably know his he has a son who was able -bodied and was in a car accident and it left him a quadriplegic so you have father and son in the same family both of them
48:29
Quadriplegically got in that condition in different ways But you know, I think of his son who was able -bodied and he had all that taken away be far far harder
48:39
But you know what, you know, I I don't miss walking because I've never known it
48:44
It's like I don't miss flying in the space shuttle because of You know, so but that's a very fair point absolutely
48:55
Yeah, but I would imagine though and perhaps you are far more sanctified than I am in fact
49:01
I already know that you're more There's no guesswork involved in that but I'm assuming that even somebody as godly as you are not that you would brag about that for yourself, but Am I wrong to think that you are at times?
49:20
Guilty of envy of when you look at people doing things with ease that you cannot do a
49:26
Child or even a senior citizen doing something that you you even need their help on occasion
49:31
Does that bring envy into your life or perhaps you've been able to overcome that in your sanctification?
49:40
Well, no, not not completely. I hope I hope to some degree up. I've overcome it
49:45
Mortified that but not completely and just as a case in point I just got back from the
49:51
Shepherds Conference in Los Angeles and I was there with my pastor and a couple friends of mine from church and my pastor
49:56
Jim Austin and I did some Recording at grace to you studios. We did a series on spiritual warfare.
50:03
In fact, I think you've had him on your program, but I We left the hotel and who is this?
50:11
Oh, yes, I have had Jim on and he's your pastor. Yeah. Yeah yes, yes, he is great guy and When we left the hotel early in the morning to go record, of course
50:23
I was I get dressed once a day whatever I have to have on later in the day That's what I put on first thing in the morning because getting dressed is it's a chore
50:31
It's it's no small task for me to dress and undress So so we leave the hotel and and I'm in my suit and tie and everything ready to record it
50:40
Jim walks out in cargo pants and his t -shirt and he's carrying his clothes to to change into a waiter
50:45
I told him I said man, I have no comprehension of that being able to You know duck away and change clothes real quick.
50:53
And you know, I just I can't even relate to that. So there's Sure, there's uh,
50:58
I guess I have to admit that there is a certain amount of Envy, I suppose it is because I do have a thought
51:07
Man, it would be nice to be able to do that, you know Just to We're about to close and undress and dress again be done in less than five minutes
51:16
That would be nice. You know, I I can't do that have no comprehension Well, don't feel too bad because I can't do that either even though I'm comparatively able
51:28
I'm colorblind, which also puts a big hurdle in my getting Dressed And of course,
51:38
I don't mean I don't mean I'm hoping that none of my listeners think I'm being rude by saying that in comparison to some serious
51:45
Condition that you're in No, and you know Chris we can all of us we can always find somebody that suffers far worse than we do
51:53
No, that's true of me. It's true of you. It's true of all of us and so Yeah A fair point fair point an accurate point well
52:05
One of the reasons that I think that you could be an invaluable One of the many reasons that you are invaluable to discuss this obviously having going through such a
52:19
Depilitating illness for your entire life and as you've already used the term yourself
52:25
Handicapped and I'm assuming that the politically correct Language police are off bounds when they start
52:35
Insulting and defaming people for using terms like handicapped and disabled though these appropriate terms for you
52:46
Because I'm Correct person I think political correctness is just really dumb, but I call myself a little white cripple boy all the time
53:00
I'm crippled. I'm not Physically challenged or whatever the
53:05
PC term is nowadays. I just I don't go for that. I'm crippled. That's what I am crippled It doesn't bother me
53:12
So yeah, I'm not one to get hung up on being PC. I think that's a waste of time.
53:17
It's kind of ridiculous Well, I think that you are an excellent Guest to speak to the hearts and minds of People not only who are going through an infliction themselves of a wide spectrum of things that could be going on in their lives
53:36
But if they are a Christian They have the absolute Certain promise that this will work together for their good from our
53:46
Lord And how can you counsel? those listening whether it is
53:53
Someone in a wheelchair or in a hospital bed who can't even sit in a wheelchair or Someone who is perhaps even just racked with depression because their spouse
54:03
Has cheated on them or the spouse has abandoned them or their spouse has died or the precious child has died or you can go on and on with the horrific things that could happen to a
54:17
Christian or perhaps even a non -christian that's listening that may be provoked to jealousy in a good way the kind of jealousy that Paul desires to see happen in the hearts of his kinsmen the
54:31
Jews but a jealousy to Want to know Christ to know that all things will work together for their good if they are one of Christ's own
54:41
But what kind of counsel can you give to our listeners when they wake up in the morning the very first thing that they may be thinking of when they stare at the ceiling when they open their eyes in a hospital bed or Other circumstance if you could just unburden your heart and speak to the hearts and minds of our listeners
55:00
Yes, Chris. I would I would make a couple of points Pertinent to the to your question and the first point
55:08
I'm going to make is going to sound a bit harsh at first But please do Bear with me ask our listeners to to bear with me here
55:16
One of the things that really helps me to keep my suffering my afflictions in perspective is this knowing that I Do not deserve not to suffer.
55:31
I Do not deserve not to suffer We have to remember, you know the age -old question.
55:37
Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people? That's the wrong question that there is no such thing as a good person
55:45
You're not a good person. I'm not a good person There's none who is good.
55:50
No, not one. There's none who understands and none who seeks after God Jesus told the rich young ruler
55:57
When the rich young ruler addressed him as good teacher, what must I do inherit eternal life? Jesus says why do you call me good?
56:03
No one's good except God So there is only one who is good Of course Jesus there by the way was affirming his deity that I am good because I am
56:12
God So There has never been there's only been one time in which a bad thing happened to a good person
56:21
And that's when Christ was crucified. That's the only time that a bad thing has happened to a good person
56:27
Yeah, just sorry me. I saw a meme recently on Facebook where the late RC Sproul It was being quoted as saying
56:34
Why do bad things happen to good people that only happened once and he volunteered that was the way it was word.
56:40
That's right That's exactly right, that's exactly right. Absolutely and because of our sin
56:47
Because of our rebellion against God God does not owe us anything. He does not owe us a comfortable life
56:54
My pastor Jim Osborne power had launched a couple years ago And he said if God were to strike from me everything that I own every possession
57:03
I have were to be taken away my family were to be taken away from me my children my wife and God were to leave me
57:12
Alone in a ditch to die a cold slow painful death and then send me straight to hell
57:19
He would have done me no wrong Now that may sound harsh, but that's true that's that's good theology right there
57:28
Amen So we have to when we keep that in mind knowing that anything short of hell is
57:35
God's mercy towards us I Think that does it helps us in a tremendous way to Bear up under life's trials knowing that we we don't deserve
57:47
Don't deserve Comforted and eased anything short of hell's
57:52
God's grace, so We will not go through anything that That we don't that we don't deserve that our sins have not earned us so that that's one thing is keeping that in an eschatological perspective and a proper theological perspective and The other thing
58:08
I would say is that If you're listening, and you are suffering horribly, maybe suffering far worse than anything.
58:14
I've ever experienced or dreamed of as Difficult as it is
58:21
Remember what Paul said in 2nd Corinthians 4 17 through 18
58:26
Paul said For this light momentary affliction is preparing us for an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison
58:37
For as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen for the things that are seen are
58:43
Transient they're temporary, but the things that are unseen are eternal No matter how hard the suffering is
58:50
Keep in mind that this is but temporary it is it is it is but for a moment
58:56
This life is so short. It is so fleeting that no matter how much we suffer in this short life
59:05
We can have comfort knowing that we have all of eternity To live without our suffering.
59:12
I have all of eternity To live with a glorified body if I have to live with cerebral palsy for the you know next couple of decades
59:20
I don't know if averages hold up or however much time God has allotted for me if I have to live with cerebral palsy for the rest of my life
59:27
That's fine. I've got all of eternity to live without and Not only that not only do we have all of eternity to live with but the glorified body we have all eternity to live with Christ Knowing him worshipping him fully enjoying him for all of eternity basking in his glory you know in his
59:50
Unspeakable radiance of his glory and Marveling at him for all of eternity and he is our reward
59:58
He is our reward. So Keep in mind that no matter how bad the suffering is.
01:00:04
It's transient. It's temporary. It's fleeting and Once we get to heaven all of these things will be distant memories if we remember them at all and so having an eternal perspective on these things,
01:00:21
I think helps us a lot and also knowing that We do not go through anything in this life alone as Christians We have the indwelling of the
01:00:35
Holy Spirit of God the third person of the triune Godhead resides within us and he sanctifies us he helps us to understand
01:00:45
God's Word and He is he is the paraclete right? He's our comforter and we have the fellowship of the brethren.
01:00:53
So We have everything that we need to endure the trials of life, so There's never a reason for the
01:01:01
Christian to despair never a reason for the Christian to be without hope Amen, we're going to our midway break right now.
01:01:09
It's a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida who airs
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Iron Trip and Zion Radio twice daily in a pre -recorded format they Need this time to air their own public service announcements and commercials while we air our own
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Commercials that are heard globally. So please be patient as we take this elongated break that we always do midway through the show and please use the time wisely write down all the information provided by our
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Advertisers so that you can patronize them more frequently and successfully because we rely upon our advertisers dollars their funding to exist and so the more likely
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Or should I say the more frequently you patronize our advertisers the more likely they will remain our advertisers which means
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In conclusion that we will more likely remain on the air longer so, please
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Patronize our advertisers and write down the information that they provide so that you can do so successfully and frequently also write down questions for our guests
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Justin Peters and Send them to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com
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please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA and Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter
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Don't go away. God willing. We'll be back Shortly with Justin Peters and more on sanctification through suffering
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.nyc Have a great day Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor frequent co -host with Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio I would like to introduce you to my good friends
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Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service Todd and Patty specialize in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone since 1987 the family owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available
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CVBBS .com Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you the church and to Christ That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com
01:14:01
That's CVBBS .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Welcome back.
01:14:11
This is Chris Arnson If you just tuned us in our guests today for the full two hours with less than an hour to go is
01:14:18
Justin Peters founder of Justin Peters ministries and also one of the speakers at an upcoming
01:14:23
Bible conference on the theme sanctification through suffering and Today we are discussing one
01:14:29
Christians refusal to be deterred or defeated by cerebral palsy If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is
01:14:36
Chris Arnson at gmail .com C -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com And please give us as always
01:14:43
At least your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the USA And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter before we return to our discussion with Justin I just have some important announcements to make regarding upcoming events that I hope that you will attend
01:14:59
The first of which we've already been repeating throughout the program, but it deserves repeating again
01:15:05
And that's the sanctification through suffering conference where Justin Peters is on the speaking roster That's this
01:15:11
Friday and Saturday in Freehold, New Jersey The speakers in addition to Justin Peters are
01:15:17
Frank Mullis Joe Sposo, and I hope I'm not butchering your name Joe He's also going to be our guest tomorrow for the very first time on our interpreters iron radio during the first hour 4 to 5 p .m.
01:15:28
Eastern Time and Colleen Sharp who I've had on the program. She is producer and co -host of the theology gals podcast
01:15:38
That's this Friday March 15th and this Saturday March 16th in Freehold, New Jersey, and that will be held at the
01:15:47
Chinese American Bible Church on 65 Gibson Place in Freehold, New Jersey, and it will not be conducted in the
01:15:54
Chinese language. That's just the venue where they are Having the event and for more details go to striving for eternity org striving for eternity org
01:16:07
Then coming up is another conference Where Justin Peters is on the speaking roster along with my very dear friend since 1995.
01:16:17
Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries They are going to be speaking at the
01:16:23
Community Bible Church in Victoria, Texas on Friday March 29th and and also the 30th and the 31st and the theme is going to be the sufficiency of Scripture and if you would like more details, you can go to CBC Victoria org
01:16:48
CBC Victoria org the church is located on 2205
01:16:55
East Mockingbird Lane must be right down the road from where the Munsters live There was 1313
01:17:03
Mockingbird Lane if my memory serves me right but that's the community
01:17:09
Baptist Church of Victoria, Texas and Once again, the website is
01:17:15
CBC Victoria org and that's March 29th through the 31st the sufficiency of Scripture featuring
01:17:24
Justin Peters and dr. James R. White of Alpha to make in ministries and by the way during some
01:17:30
Communication with dr. White today. He informed me that he has a new nickname For my home state where I was born and raised,
01:17:39
New York Cuomo is Stan The Soviet the
01:17:44
Soviet Socialist Republic of Cuomo is Stan named after Andrew Cuomo the horrific
01:17:52
God -hating governor of that state, but that is another topic for another time then a coming up on March 30th
01:18:02
For those of you who live closer to Long Island, New York my friend Bruce Bennett who is my second guest tomorrow 5 to 6 p .m
01:18:10
Eastern on our interpreters on radio. He has to Bruce Bennett who is pastor of the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville On Saturday March 30th at 6 30 p .m
01:18:20
He's going to be debating God willing a Roman Catholic apologist named Matthew Luke Broderick and the theme is is purgatory biblical and If you'd like to attend that conference go to The Word of Truth Church's website for all the details wot church .com
01:18:41
Wot which stands for word of truth wot church .com and if you
01:18:48
Contact the folks there at the word of truth truth Church of Farmingville Please tell them that you heard about the conference from Chris Aronson on iron sharpens iron radio
01:18:57
Then I Want you to know about a very important conference that I am going to be attending
01:19:04
God willing This is right here in Elizabeth Elizabeth Towne Pennsylvania and that is the banner of truth
01:19:14
Conference more specifically the banner of truth East Coast ministers conference Which is being held at the
01:19:22
Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania on the theme I believe in the
01:19:27
Holy Spirit and This for sure is going to have a much more biblical
01:19:33
Definition on the person and work of the Holy Spirit than those heretics that our guest Justin Peters spends much of his life exposing as charlatans, this is coming from theologically reformed and biblically rich Information from wonderful speakers that I'm sure you will be
01:19:54
Blessed by if you attend and I if you attend, please look for me and say I listen to iron sharpens iron radio
01:19:59
Please ask around until you find me because I would love to share fellowship with some folks that listen to this show
01:20:06
But the I believe in the Holy Spirit Conference of the banner of truth, which is the East Coast ministers conference is being held
01:20:12
May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania and The speakers include
01:20:18
Jeff Kingswood Terry Johnston David Vaughn who's a reformed Baptist missionary in France Stephen J.
01:20:24
Nichols who is The president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries
01:20:31
Michael Morales and Chad Vegas To find out all the details you need to attend to go to banner of truth org banner of truth org
01:20:40
Last but not least the foundations conference is being held in Manhattan and I will be attending there as well
01:20:46
God -willing. I love this conference. It's December 19th and the 20th in the heart of New York City, Manhattan and They have a phenomenal line up of speakers.
01:20:57
I strongly urge you to Register as quickly as possible because the venue only holds about 200 people maximum.
01:21:04
Dr. Stephen J. Lawson is on the roster reverend Jeff Thomas Richard Caldwell jr.
01:21:10
Reverend Armin Tomasian Andrew Quigley and Paul Washer was recently added to this roster So, please if you want to register go to the foundations conference calm the foundations conference calm and register as quickly as you can
01:21:22
And tell them that you heard about the conference from Chris Arns and an iron sharpens iron radio Now if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves
01:21:31
Please go to iron sharpens iron radio dot -com click support then click click to donate now You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card.
01:21:38
We are in urgent need of your finances to help pay some very important bills Please Do the best as you can
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With this caveat. I never want anybody siphoning money away from their regular giving
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To the local church where they are a member in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio. Never do that Never put your family in financial jeopardy in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio
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Those two things are commands of God providing for my show is not a command of God but if you live or should
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I say if you Are blessed Financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands then please go to iron sharpens iron radio dot -com click support and then click click to donate now and donate as Frequently as you have can and as heavily as you can because we certainly do need your help
01:22:26
If you want to advertise send me an email address to Chris Arns and at gmail .com And put advertising in the subject line as long as whatever it is
01:22:33
You're promoting is compatible with what we believe we would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we really do need your advertising dollars and Remember if you are not a member of a
01:22:44
Bible believing church and you are not prayerfully seeking for one You are living in rebellion against God. So please
01:22:50
If you need help finding a church Send me an email to Chris Arns and at gmail .com Chris Arns and at gmail .com
01:22:56
and put I need a church home in the Ever in the subject line Many people have found church a church home through writing to me because I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world
01:23:08
So you could be one of them Just send me an email to Chris Arns and at gmail .com if you need help finding a church home or even if you're going on vacation and you need the recommendation for a biblically sound church
01:23:20
Now you could also send in a question for Justin Peters our guest today the Chris Arns in a gmail .com
01:23:27
Chris Arns in at gmail .com Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside the
01:23:33
USA and only remain anonymous If your question involves a personal and private matter We do have an anonymous listener
01:23:39
Justin who wants to know if you have a wife that helps you through your daily tasks in life.
01:23:47
I Do indeed Chris, I am married to a wonderful lady named Kathy This August Kathy and I will have been married nine years.
01:23:55
Praise God and yes indeed. Praise the Lord Kathy was saved out of Roman Catholicism and shortly after her conversion.
01:24:03
She was Turned on to the preaching ministry of John MacArthur and just kind of like a Sponge just soaked up everything that he had to preach and teach and some others as well
01:24:14
But so she's quite the theologian in her own right, but she does help me. In fact, she she helps me do
01:24:22
Things now that I used to have to do on my own and so usually on a daily basis
01:24:28
Unless I'm on the road somewhere, but she'll she'll help me get dressed in the morning Boxing shoes and whatnot that saves me a lot of time
01:24:36
So in fact, I probably put off I put on some weight because the things I used to do for myself.
01:24:42
She now helps I don't burn quite as many calories getting dressed nowadays is what
01:24:48
I Well, thank you anonymous keep listening to the show we have
01:24:56
Don in Valdez, Arkansas and Don asks
01:25:02
I Live in a small town in Alaska. I'm sorry. I said, Arkansas It's Valdez, Alaska.
01:25:10
I Live in a small town in Alaska, and I just found out that a small n -a -r
01:25:15
Wannabe is trying to get foothold here I've talked with my pastor about this and we have a tentative plan for dealing with them
01:25:24
Can you ask Justin if they're if there is aside from praying and educating our church?
01:25:32
Is there anything my proactive is there anything my proactive there's a little bit of grammatical error here
01:25:39
Brother, so I'm gonna have to try to sort this question out. Is there any proactive?
01:25:46
Things he would recommend us doing. Thanks for your time Yeah, great.
01:25:52
Great question. I'm sorry. I'm sorry Don you said you wanted to remain anonymous But that was your very last sentence in the question
01:26:00
So next time if you want to ask an anonymous question put it in the subject line Not the very last line as I'm reading the question.
01:26:07
Sorry about that. But anyway Justin Well, I'm sure there's more than one
01:26:12
Don Well, maybe that will this will be a warning for these n -a -r folks to pack up and get out of town get out of Dodge Every right to be concerned, right?
01:26:31
And so in a our New Apostolic Reformation is a cult it is led by people such as Bill Johnson and Rick Joyner Todd white
01:26:41
Lou Engel Heidi Baker some of those that cast of characters
01:26:48
It's a cult. It's a theological cult. He's right to be concerned and I would say proactively Maybe a couple of things.
01:26:54
There's a new documentary out entitled American gospel by Brandon Kimber It deals with this issue
01:27:02
Part of it. I was interviewed for it, but but it's a good good documentary and it exposes a lot of the heresy.
01:27:10
So Look up that documentary American gospel by Brandon Kimber and maybe order some of those.
01:27:16
I think they have some bulk rates and Kind of disseminate them as best you can amongst some people there
01:27:22
Especially in your own church and help them to be aware of the issue and I'm not at all inviting myself
01:27:28
But a lot of churches do have me come in if they've got a kind of a word faith and they are
01:27:35
Presence or they know they soon will have a church like this coming in They'll have me come in and preach and teach on this issue and I would be happy to do that if that's something your church might like to consider but Yeah American gospel
01:27:52
DVD the book strange fire is also a good resource The finding deception is another good book authored by Anthony wood and custody him.
01:28:02
So there are good resources out there. So Do what you can to spread the word and educate the people in the town because it's you don't want that in your in your community
01:28:12
It's bad stuff I've had the privilege of having our mutual friend Kosti Hinn on this program and He is quite a remarkable young man nephew of Benny Hinn Who has committed his life not only to preaching the gospel first and foremost
01:28:30
But also to exposing men like his own uncle and other charlatans that teach very dangerous and deadly and damning doctrines
01:28:41
Yeah, I'm looking looking forward to having Kosta Tony, I'm sorry Tony Kosta is my friend who's coming from Toronto to do our
01:28:51
Pastor's lunch and I'm and Kosti Hinn looking forward to Kosti Hinn coming back to iron sharpens iron radio soon
01:29:01
And this NAR is the new apostolic revival, correct? New apostolic reformation the
01:29:09
Reformation, I'm sorry. In fact, I know that I have done at least one
01:29:15
Perhaps more A Interview on that and I when
01:29:20
I find that book on the archives I will let you know about another book that I recommend
01:29:29
That I had featured on this program Let's see here.
01:29:34
We have Another listener and this listener is I believe a first -time questioner
01:29:42
My name is Ethan, I'm 28 years old. I live in Sophia, West Virginia My question is in regard to same -sex attracted people who claim to be
01:29:52
Christians like Sam Albury To be certain I've listened to hours and hours of the man's preaching and I do believe him to be regenerate
01:30:01
I do question the living out website He's a part of though if I were same -sex attracted it would make me feel pretty empty and hopeless
01:30:11
I'm very concerned because the church tends to be rather quiet about these incredibly serious and almost increasingly common issues of biblically minded human sexuality
01:30:23
That a born -again person who remains same -sex attracted after being led to salvation will feel pretty alone because of hateful graceless people who also claim
01:30:34
Christ and Therefore perhaps be driven into not so Orthodox branches of Christianity I don't see any warrant to believe that every same -sex attracted person who surrenders their life to Christ will be immediately if at all
01:30:49
This side of eternity cured of their broken sexuality. Of course
01:30:54
Christ is enough His word is sufficient. In other words, what I'm asking is what is your biblical understanding of someone who struggles with same -sex attraction?
01:31:02
But is indwelled by the Holy Spirit Obviously a celibate lifestyle is the only answer aside from maybe some type of Orthodox Christian oriented conversion therapy in hope of developing appropriate attraction to a spouse of the opposite sex should
01:31:18
Same -sex attracted persons seek a relationship with the opposite sex if they don't possess the gift of singleness
01:31:25
Okay. Well, there's a lot to unpack there Yeah, that is a controversy in the church amongst conservative
01:31:34
Bible -believing Christians who Know that homosexuality is an unnatural and damning sin the issue that becomes a controversy is
01:31:46
To what degree a truly regenerate person will struggle with a same -sex attraction desire
01:31:55
Do you have your own thoughts on that even though that's not the hallmark of your ministry? Do you have any comments that might be helpful to our listener on that?
01:32:06
Yes, Chris, I tell you I really struggle with this whole notion of SSA same -sex attracted, but non practicing
01:32:14
Christian There's a really good article. I don't have it pulled up right now, but it's by Owen Strachan strach.
01:32:23
Oh, yeah. I've interviewed Owen on the program. Okay. Okay, great. Great. Great. So you're familiar with that and He makes a very very strong biblical case and I agree with that first Corinthians 6 verses 9 through 11 really
01:32:38
Really puts the brakes on this idea of being a same -sex attracted, but non practicing
01:32:46
Christian Paul says or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God do not be deceived neither fornicators nor Idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor homosexuals nor thieves nor covetous non drunkards
01:33:00
Nor violators nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God and then Paul says this he says such were
01:33:06
Some of you you were those things you're not anymore
01:33:12
You have been saved you were washed you were sanctified You were justified in the name of the
01:33:17
Lord Jesus Christ in the spirit of our God The Greek in there such were some of you it makes a powerful powerful case that Not only have these people been saved from the practice of these things.
01:33:31
They've been saved from the desire of these things The to be attracted to someone of the same gender
01:33:40
In some kind of sexual way that that is an inherently sinful Desire it's it's not just it's not enough that you simply don't act on it.
01:33:50
The desire itself is inherently sinful That it's not inherently sinful for a young Christian man to be attracted to a
01:34:03
Christian woman That's a natural desire natural affection Even even if the if even if he's attracted physically to an a non -christian woman, it's still natural
01:34:13
It's the question. How does he respond to that attract? Yes. Yes. It's it's a perfectly natural, you know, men are attracted to women women are attracted to me
01:34:22
You wouldn't be married. I wouldn't be married if we weren't attracted to the women, you know, it's it's a natural desire but it is unnatural but the
01:34:31
To be attracted to someone at the same sex. That's a that's an attraction that stems from the fall
01:34:37
Adam and Eve were attracted to one another before the fall. That's a natural attraction
01:34:43
To be attracted to someone of the same gender. That's a post fall Attraction that is unnatural.
01:34:50
That's inherently sinful. And so any I just don't believe that you can be a
01:34:57
Regenerate person in Christ old things passed away. All things are making and In in habitually struggle with that kind of Same -sex attraction any hint of it must be put to death
01:35:12
Romans 8 13 put to death at the deeds of the body. So I'm just I'm constrained by the text
01:35:19
Chris. Yes, and there is nothing in the Bible that speaks of regenerate people having this ongoing
01:35:27
Struggle now I've heard people that would agree with us theologically on 99 % of things
01:35:35
Who will say that we should not completely rule out in somebody's life that occasionally if they had a previous experience before their salvation if they were involved in that very unnatural and wicked behavior of homosexual activity that Occasionally even a regenerate person might have a flare -up of desire that they have to put the death in their hearts and minds
01:36:00
Do you think that that is possible? I mean this is something that is totally foreign to me
01:36:06
Obviously, I struggle I struggle with sin every day but not this sin and the thing that makes it unique and different from as we were saying a heterosexual lust is that An attraction a sexual attraction to the opposite gender is a gift from God and if we
01:36:26
Abuse it and misuse it We are sinned we are sinning but we can never say that about a
01:36:34
Homosexual attraction is never a God -given gift. It is something that should always be a red light a red flag in someone's mind
01:36:41
This is unnatural. This is bizarre. This is damning and deadly
01:36:47
That's right. That's right Opposite sex attraction is a gift from God and and we channel that towards our spouse
01:36:57
There's nothing natural there's no gift of God about it a same -sex attraction.
01:37:02
It's inherently sinful Inherently ungodly ungodly. There's no way to redeem that I suppose
01:37:09
Chris I could not rule out that if someone was saved out of that that You know at once in a blue moon there might be you know, you have some flashback to your
01:37:21
Days before Christ and you might have a fleeting kind of the fault towards that I suppose
01:37:27
I cannot rule that out, but it would it would certainly have to be mortified and mortified very quickly
01:37:34
Kathy and I my wife Kathy not have a good friend who named Frankie and Frankie was saved out of lesbianism and About about two or three years ago and now she is just growing like a weed
01:37:48
I mean just soaking up sound doctrine and if you were to interview her on your program
01:37:53
She'd be the first to tell you uh -uh, you cannot be a Christian and have those desires.
01:37:59
She's been completely delivered for that now That having been said she's not going to go hang out in a gay bar either.
01:38:06
She's not gonna put herself in that old environment, right
01:38:12
Even even to evangelize as some might use as an excuse to do something like that, right?
01:38:17
Yeah, I tell people you don't have to go to a bar or a honky -tonk or whatever to find lost people I mean go to the grocery store if you want to evangelize someone or you know
01:38:25
Just go to the post office. Talk to someone on the street. You don't have to go to these places So I'm very very dubious of this whole notion of same -sex attracted believer like Sam Albury and that if that is it if that is it if that is his
01:38:44
If his life is marked by this if he has his own going Attraction to men
01:38:53
Then I based on 1st Corinthians 6 9 through 11 I've got to be very very dubious about his
01:39:01
Regeneration and I may get some hateful comments whatever pushback, but I I'm constrained by Scripture So I suppose
01:39:08
I couldn't to sum up. I couldn't roll out an occasional Flare -up, but but even if it does happen you put it to death very quickly you mortify it and you go to the
01:39:19
Word of God Yeah, just put that to death but that is certainly not something that should be a an ongoing thing in the life of a believer right
01:39:30
The thing I mean, I heard just one lecture by Sam Albury and he said the right things through the majority of what he was
01:39:38
Saying and I was like agreeing with him But that but he seemed to be resigned to the fact that this was his lot in life
01:39:46
To be a same -sex attracted pastor and just to live celibate and to you know warn people about physically consummating these
01:39:59
Desires, but that that seems to me to denial of the power of God like you're waving the white flag
01:40:05
And you're saying well Satan's one with this issue on in my life So I'm just going to accept this and let you know and just try to be responsible with this like we don't it would almost
01:40:18
I mean people might think this is an exaggerated comparison, but somebody's on death row and they're regenerate even though they have spent their life as a serial killer would a reborn
01:40:31
Believer in Christ Jesus, so who is a new creation in Christ? Would they continue to fantasize about murdering people?
01:40:38
I mean exactly or a child molester right,
01:40:44
I don't I just don't get that and But anyway, it's it that is it is an issue that I said in the beginning.
01:40:51
There are brothers and Sisters who agree with us on nearly everything who who have disagreements over?
01:40:59
This issue not that they ever say it's okay to behave in that way, but they they wonder about how much of those
01:41:07
Desires can remain in somebody who is reborn Yes, exactly
01:41:13
Exactly, and and there's no logical reason to not make that comparison You show me someone who is and this is something
01:41:20
I agree with you because I can't relate to this on any level and Something else I can't relate to is people who find
01:41:27
It's hard for me to even utter the words much less relate to it, but people who find children
01:41:33
Attractive in that way that is so foreign to me. And if You show me someone who has those thoughts.
01:41:42
I want to show you I want to show you a lost person Right, and so it's an inherently sinful disgusting
01:41:50
Desire and It's the same way with being same -sex attracted. There's there's no logical difference to draw a line between one
01:42:01
Yeah, I just think you cannot make that case By the way, Ethan Send me your full mailing address in West Virginia because you since you're a first -time questioner you have won a free
01:42:13
New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the NASB and This is a reminder to me actually to urge you once again all of you listening if you are a pastor or a deacon or even someone that If you would if you're just an ordinary member of your church
01:42:30
Please approach your deacons or your pastors or whoever is in charge of making
01:42:36
Bible purchases for your church, please consider the New American Standard Bible Many of you are in churches where your pew
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Bibles are falling apart they're filled with children's graffiti or perhaps your your leaders have outgrown the version that you're using perhaps you realize that you have a
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Modern version that is not faithful to the original text or perhaps You have
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King James Bibles and as wonderful as that translation is you want to use a translation that's easier to understand
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Well, please consider the New American Standard Bible and please consider replacing all of the pew Bibles in your church with this translation
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That will help iron trip and Zion radio because they have been faithful sponsors the publishers of the NASB have been faithful sponsors of ours ever since we launched in 2005 and even before that and all the events that I have orchestrated such as public theological debates and other things
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They have sponsored them financially going all the way back to the early 1990s So please go to NAS Bible calm and order your pew
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Bibles there And if you don't have pew Bibles start now at NAS Bible calm and a s
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Bible calm and please Tell the folks at the who published the New American Standard Bible that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen And I interpret
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Zion radio. We have to go to our final break right now And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is
01:44:01
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and as always as I've been saying throughout the program
01:44:08
Please always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence
01:44:14
And your country of residence if you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter
01:44:22
Don't go away. We'll be right back I'm James White of Alpha Omega ministries
01:44:30
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Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God or am I trying to please man?
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If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church We are a reformed
01:45:31
Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts We strive to reflect
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Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do
01:45:44
Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the
01:45:50
Apostles priority, it must not be ours either We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate
01:45:56
Love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build
01:46:03
Up the body of Christ in truth and love if you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area
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Please come and join us for worship and fellowship You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.
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That's 508 -528 -5750 Or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our
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James Renahan and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas The Word of God says if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing
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01:53:58
Welcome back. This is the last few minutes of our show today if you have a question send it immediately or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time and Justin Oh, first of all,
01:54:10
I want to thank Arnie from Perry County, Pennsylvania who reminded me of the book that I highlighted on an interview on Iron Trepans Iron Radio a new apostolic reformation a biblical response to a worldwide movement by Doug Guyvett and Holly Pivick and That was featured on our
01:54:28
December 8th 2017 Episode of Iron Trepans Iron Radio. Thank you Arnie from Perry County for bringing that to my attention and memory
01:54:37
You know our last question about people struggling with same -sex attraction actually lends itself to the theme in general of suffering in this way that there are many people as you can imagine
01:54:54
Justin who are suffering because they they have a painful desire for someone to love in their lives and for some providential reason they can't find that person perhaps
01:55:11
It could be through a disability and and you in spite of a disability God granted you a precious gift and having a spouse
01:55:18
But there are others that may never have a spouse Because of a disability or it might be many other reasons.
01:55:25
It might be that Their their pastors have counseled them not to remarry because they have been married and divorced multiple times
01:55:33
Who knows what the reason is, but can you give a word of? Encouragement and comfort to those who are battling depression because they just don't think that they are going to have a person and of course
01:55:47
The only biblical way that they could have a person In a romantic sense in an intimate sense is a person of the opposite gender than themselves but though for those folks who feel that they are just crushed inside because they are fairly certain that they will remain on Earth For the for the rest of their days without a significant other.
01:56:12
What can you say to those folks? Sure Chris, and I know that's a struggle and and I know it from firsthand experience
01:56:20
I was 37 years old before I was married. And so, you know, I Went through life
01:56:30
For a long long time as an adult Single and and I know it hurts. I know it can be very lonely and With that loneliness comes opportunities for Satan to empty you and to divert your attention away from Christ.
01:56:45
So a Couple things never give up if you have a desire for a spouse make it a matter of prayer and And Never you never know when the right person will show up you never know when in God's providence he will bring you someone and I had just about given up and My desire to be married just about giving up and then just quite on the way.
01:57:13
I don't mean long story short I'm from Mississippi. My wife is from Montana. We met in California and just a very providential thing and But that was
01:57:22
God's right timing and he brought the right person to me so Never give up.
01:57:28
You never know when God will bring that right person to you until that time comes don't settle
01:57:36
You know, don't don't settle for second best Don't don't just settle to be with someone that you know is not right for you just because you're lonely
01:57:44
That's always a recipe for disaster. So hold off and wait for someone that you know is walking with the
01:57:51
Lord and strong believer anything less will end up in a disaster and Until that time does come then surround yourself
01:58:04
Number one with the study of God's Word number two with the fellowship of the Saints Having fellowship with like -minded believers is of paramount importance for all of us single and married but Especially if you're single you don't want to be alone
01:58:21
You want to be be with like -minded believers that will encourage you and it's not the same thing as having a spouse not at all saying that not saying that that will take away the loneliness, but a
01:58:32
Lonely Christian this should be a an oxymoron at least at some level You need to have a fellowship of the
01:58:39
Saints being a good church people that will encourage you support you will pray for you and In that local body you can grow in Christ and as you grow in Christ You will be more content and as you grow in your knowledge of God, you'll be better equipped to rest in his providence and rest in his tiny until A Man and as my pastor said to me many years ago when
01:59:10
I was a young new Christian in my Mid 20s. He said always remember it is far better to be single and want to be married
01:59:19
Than to be married and want to be single And I want to remind our listeners that the conference being held this
01:59:28
Friday and Saturday March 15th and 16th in Prehill, New Jersey where Our guest
01:59:34
Justin Peters is featured on the roster roster. You can find out more details at striving for eternity org striving for eternity org
01:59:42
And of course, Justin Peters ministry can be found at Justin Peters org
01:59:47
Justin Peters org Thank you so much Justin for being our guest today. I want to thank everybody who listened and wrote in questions