December 6, 2017 Show with Scott Lively & Kevin Abrams on “The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party (& its Relevance in 21st Century America)”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnsen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this sixth day of December 2017.

I'm very excited about this program, the day after the Supreme Court heard arguments in regard to the now infamous gay wedding cake controversy involving the Masterpiece Bakery, and it is providential that we have this program today because I did not even know that that was going to happen yesterday, and it's going to be interesting to see how things develop from there.

But today we have two guests. We have a returning guest, and we have a first-time guest. We have Scott Lively, who's been on this program a number of times, and we have joining him today for the very first time, Kevin Abrams.

Scott Lively is a Christian attorney and pastor, and Kevin Abrams is an Orthodox Jew, and together they wrote The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party, and we're going to be discussing its relevance in the 21st century America, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams.

Very good to be here. Yes, and Kevin, it's a delight to have you on for the very first time ever. This book, The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party, is now entering into its fifth edition, and I want to hold the attention of our listeners because some folks might immediately think that we are a bunch of nuts even discussing something like this, and I just want to read some of the commendations that this book has received over the years.

First of all, we have Dr. Judith Reisman of the Institute for Media Education. As a Jewish scholar who lost hundreds of her family in the Holocaust, I welcome The Pink Swastika as courageous and timely.

Lively and Abrams reveal the reigning gay history as revisionist and expose the super male German homosexuals for what they were, Nazi brutes, not Nazi victims. And we have William Norman Grigg, my dear friend, who was the former senior editor of New American Magazine, and he just went home to be with the Lord after a heart attack, I believe, that was subsequent to an illness he developed, and William was a dear friend, and I had him on this program quite a number of times.

He was a Mormon convert to Christianity, and he was known by his friends as Thesaurus Rex because of the fact that he had a computer-like mind when it came to vocabulary and synonyms and antonyms and so on, but my dear friend William Norman Grigg said The Pink Swastika is a tremendously valuable book replete with impressive documentation presented in a compelling fashion.

And Stan Goodenow, Middle East Intelligence Digest, says The Pink Swastika exposes numerous lies and tears away many myths. Essential reading, it is a formidable boulder cast into the path of the on-rushing homosexual express.

And then we have Dr. Mordecai Nisan, Hebrew University of Jerusalem. The Pink Swastika is a powerful exposure of pre-World War II Germany and its quest for reviving and imitating a Hellenistic, paganistic idea of homoeroticism and militarism.

And then R .J. Rushduni of the Calsinon Foundation, he is well known to a considerably large portion of my audience. He is also with the Lord now. R .J. Rushduni said Lively and Abrams call attention to what Hitlerism really stood for.

Abortion, euthanasia, hatred of Jews, and very emphatically homosexuality. This many of us knew in the 1930s. It was common knowledge, but now it is denied. And then we have Normus Seville of the News of All Israel, a treasury of knowledge for anyone who wants to know what really happened during the Jewish Holocaust.

And then we have Colonel Ronald Ray, former U .S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense. Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams have done America a great service. John Hulley, former senior economist of the World Bank, a landmark book for those who have trouble understanding Hitler, the Holocaust, previous books, and movies.

However high their quality have left me mystified as to how the Nazi leaders could have done the things they did. This short book gets closer to the truth than anything I know of. And then last but not least, Dr. Howard Hurwitz of the Family Defense Council said the pink swastika, homosexuality in the Nazi party, is a thoroughly researched, eminently readable demolition of the gay myth symbolized by the pink triangle that the Nazis were anti-homosexual.

The deep roots of homosexuality in the Nazi party are brilliantly exposed. I thought it was very valuable to read all of those. People might be wondering why I was going on and on reading all because of the fact of the reason I just opened up the program with.

People think that you are nuts when you bring this up. The fact that the Nazi party was founded largely by, if not entirely, by homosexuals and that that element carried through in its leadership throughout the entirety of the party and even has existed amongst American Nazi parties and so on.

But if you could, both of you, I'll start with Scott. We've discussed this before, but if you could give us an abbreviated history as to how you developed an interest in this to begin with and then how, Kevin, you also simultaneously developed an interest in this and how you two met and collaborated on this.

Well, yes. Actually, I think Kevin had been like Nazis and I thought my job at the time anti-homosexual and I thought my job between the Nazis and then one day, really, I mean, seriously, it's very interesting, came in, he said, they got it all backwards.

It's the Nazis were all homosexuals and he had this hand, you know, set of handwritten notes, like 20 or 30 pages of notes. And, you know, I nodded polite.

And forgot about it. Because you also had the gut, you had the guttural reaction like most.

People that it was nuts. Yeah, that's right. I thought this guy's a nut. And then we went through that election cycle. We came pretty close, but we failed. And then in the next election cycle, when we got to Marion County, wrote a letter to the local news and what an amazing similarity there was between, ah, that's it, I have had enough.

I remembered this sheet of papers, I went into my file. And then for the first time, I really read it. And my jaw dropped to the desk every day. One triggered a response that summer in Amsterdam, on the effective use of rhetoric.

And so in the midst of all that, Carol Patron said, you guys got to talk to each other, because she knew that he had been researching. I'll let him talk about it. And then in that conversation, we decided to write a book together.

Well, Kevin, if you could give us.

Your own background and the thing that ignited your own interest in this, being a person who tends to empathize with the Nazi era experience during the Holocaust. But I kept on running up against this, this contradiction, that some of the key figures within the Nazi movement were actually homosexuals and homosexuality amongst the leadership and leading figures in the early round shirt movement, which were the stormtrooper.

Yeah, they were they were the ones that are.

Infamously known for Kristallnacht, who were smashing the windows of Jewish owned stores and.

Businesses, and terrorizing Jewish citizens. That's right. And so I, we have a lot of books endorses a senior economist, the World Bank, and says that this book explains more succinctly to him, why the Holocaust than any other book that he'd ever read, even though it's more of most historical works are all about the what, when and if any, with ourselves, or who am I, you know, of course, of a lifetime, who am I and why am I here?

So the whole, the who and the why became critical aspects. And increasingly, I ran up against this, this wall, where they were more of a form of homo homo sexist. And they, they preferred young boys. And there were many scandals having to do with young boys being sexually molested at Brown.

And even when by Nazis, by Nazis, you. Yes, that's right. Well, by by the bodyguard for one, one of the leading freebooter movements, of course, we derive the Brown movement.

And what is a freebooter movement? What is a freebooter? I don't know what that means.

But those from World War One, basically, limited to 100 ,000 men in arms. And that put an enormous number whole sort of militaristic in among this group, they organized these in Versailles. And one of them homosexual, all the other friends, Germany had lost its car.

Yeah, in fact, I remember reading in your book, that the regular army, the regular German army, army, had a nickname for them, the brown fairies, because they knew that this was a fact that that they were known for their homosexual, homosexual activity.

And Kevin mentioned the brown,.

And they had what the brown shirts, and kept an inch. Yeah. And to that point,.

A little Italian newspaper nation after the assassination. So it's so this Hirschfeld faction who founded the Berlin Institute of sexology and the Scientific Humanitarian Committee for the repeal of Section 175 of the German Penal Code, and the liberalization of laws as they related to homosexuality.

And, and then the other side was the Bundverminderrecht, or the Society of Human Rights, which was the Nazi, more or less affiliated with the Nazi movement, within which Ernst Rohm was a member. And basically, they were militant, gays, and they didn't buy this business is that homosexuals were members of a third sex, and that they were actually women and men were mentioned and basic.

Man. Yeah, the, the, those on the butch side of the homosexual activist movement in Germany would have found it very offensive to be considered among the effeminate homosexuals, and somehow born with a defect of some kind that they were men born in women's bodies, they thought this was a gift or a son of superiority and maleness, actually.

You know, they had totally the Nazis referred to the feminine homosexuality as emasculated gossips.

So they saw the effeminate side of the homo. Wouldn't have liked my. Like a woman, that's going to get a lot more attention than a man that's acting like a man and hiding his.

Homosexuality. Yeah, in fact, it's interesting. I wanted to just quickly bring up and I'll let you continue your thought. But in case there are some people that are still listening with disbelief and shaking their heads.

The very group that has Scott Lively on a list of the top hate groups of America, the Southern Poverty Law Center, which also has my friend Michael Brown on that list. But when you say that name there, excuse me.

But the very group that has you identified as a leader of a hate group, Southern Poverty Law Center, if you go to their website, spl center .org, and you type in gay Nazis, you get a whole list of articles about gay Nazi groups that they are exposing.

I'll just to read a brief portion of their section on that. Ku Klux Klansmen, neo Nazis, Christian identity adherence, racist skinheads, and odinists, along with your garden variety white supremacists.

These are the people that populate America's radical right. They inhabit, by definition, the outermost fringes of our society. And then there are the gay neo Nazis. Talk about a sect within a sect. The members of this tiny subculture on the radical right, mainly men who inhabit web chat rooms like gay Aryan resistance, just can't seem to get any respect.

And then it goes on and on and on, quoting from these so called gay Nazis and so on. So it's amazing that they would highlight you, Scott, as a hate leader for bringing up something that existed in the earlier part of the 20th century.

And they seem to believe it is completely appropriate to be exposing contemporary homosexual Nazis. It makes no sense that they would be so radically opposed to you and Kevin. And I'm not sure if they even identify Kevin because they might think it's more politically incorrect to identify an orthodox Jewish person in this way.

But it is interesting and I can only think that the only reason that they are attacking you is because they know that the form of Nazism that rose up in Germany in the early part of the 20th century resulted in the deaths of millions and the contemporary neo Nazi groups.

Although there may be some accounts of deaths and brutality, it's primarily just a hate speech involvement that they are known for. But if you want to comment.

On what I just said. Well, I think the create symbol of the move triangle, which in fact was and then had to stop using the pink triangle, the rainbow as their symbol. And they were, you know, they had money and man.

Yes, in fact, I recall and it's amazing. Well,.

Maybe it's not that amazing. But I cannot find this documentary anywhere on the internet today, perhaps you guys can. But I remember clearly, years ago, that there was an HBO documentary that was produced and hosted by a professing homosexual, and who was also a homosexual activist, who launched a research journey to find out exactly what all the details were in regard to the persecution of homosexuals in the Nazi regime.

And the man, the young man, I can clearly remember, at the end of the documentary, he actually admitted that the vast majority of homosexuals who died in the camps died of illness, that they were not targeted in any stretch of the imagination, like the Jews were.

And they were even given opportunities to be rehabilitated, if they were arrested after the Nazis, to clean up their public relations, started to crack down and, on the surface, persecute homosexuals.

They were given, I was just going to say, they were given a chance to rehabilitate.

They were breaking the sodomy laws. They were identical to the sodomy laws in the United States, that people, it wasn't, they weren't being used for putting in concentration camps, they were just simply arrested by the police.

Yes, I hope that somebody can find that documentary,.

Because I think that it may have been permanently removed from the archives of HBO, because of the findings that this person had. And perhaps when they aired it, they were such a negative outcry. I'm only assuming at this point, because I can't find it.

I can't find it anywhere. But we're going to go to a break right now. And if anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if this involves a personal and private matter. And don't go away, God willing, we will be right back with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on the pink swastika, homosexuality in the Nazi party, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned us in, our two guests today are Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams. Scott is a Christian attorney and pastor, and Kevin Abrams is an Orthodox Jew and a journalist, and they have co-authored a book that is now entering into its fifth edition, The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party.

We're discussing that book and also its relevance in 21st century America. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address for questions is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's pick up, Kevin, where you left off if you wanted to continue a thread of thought there, because I do want to eventually, very soon, get to the root of the ideology of the Nazi Party.

Why this band, this small band, which originally began as a small band of men involved in homosexual pederasty, formed this movement? And was the homosexual activity that they were involved in inconsequential to their ideology?

Is it just that they happened to all be involved in that activity but had different goals and other ideological visions that they wanted to accomplish in Germany? But if you could, Kevin, finish where you left off and then we will get to the root of.

That. Just as a reference to the pink triangle, Willy Fritzscher identifies the Brown special meeting that was called the SS officers assassination of their leadership, where they were and they all had to be reapplied to enter into the new right.

Specifically, on page, I think it's 430, that homosexuals, comprised of homosexuals, and that was basically a way of engineering pretext, enabling act, was this were blamed for and so forth. What's really interesting is that Dinesh D'Souza put the icing on the history of the North American democratic movement and their associations in American history, quite revealing and irrefutable, and it's actually quite a revelation.

It's probably on the same shaking people.

Now, one thing that we, I think, have to point out, because it may have just flown right over the heads of many of our listeners, when you mentioned Ernst Röhm, many of our listeners probably never heard that name before, but Ernst Röhm was a very notorious, openly homosexual pederast.

He was not ashamed of this behavior, he was not a closeted homosexual. He was well known by everyone as somebody who was a homosexual pederast, somebody who enjoyed the sexual company of teenage boys or even younger, but he is also known by those who would consider themselves homosexual scholars and historians and liberal activists.

They all know that Ernst Röhm was a practicing open homosexual. Nobody really denies Röhm's homosexuality, correct?

Yeah, no, it's irrefutable. The party, Hitler was always having to... Röhm is the one who discovered and made Hitler.

He was a Nazi before Hitler was, right? I mean, maybe not with that name, the National Socialist Party, but he was involved in that movement that Hitler joined, obviously, before Hitler, correct?

Right.

Sexuality with... To do an unbiased and open and objective study of the topic and if they can get through the emotional blocks that they might have and the preconditioning in that particular topic, they'll come to a more clear...

So militarized.

I just want to chime in just very quickly that one of the things that is fascinating about your book, The Pink Swastika, is how thoroughly documented it is and much of the information that you and Scott have gathered comes from homosexual historians who were contemporaries of Hitler and who lived in that day, who were eyewitnesses of these things.

Exactly.

Let me comment to that point because, and frankly, there are a few, actually not very many, but there are a few, so they really don't know very much about the Nazi... References throughout all jump outs when you find out many of the Nazi leaders were not known to be homosexual by the historian.

So only someone or both an understanding of the mainstream history and of gay...

Now I want, as I mentioned earlier, I want you to give us an idea of what it was that the Nazi party in its infancy was actually founded for and what the ideology was and was the homosexual aspect of it something that was, quote, quote, coincidental, or was it actually a main thread in the theme of their ideology?

Right now?

Yeah, because I think that it would be good to know why there even existed a Nazi party and you've already said that the vast majority, if not all of the initial members of this movement were actively involved in homosexual practice.

But was that just, was that coincidental to the ideology? Was that coincidental to the core purpose that they gathered and tried to make an impact on Germany, which they unfortunately did, and upon the world?

But if you could...

Well, there are two more than homosexuals. The party really came out of an occult... Who formed the Nazi party came out of occultism, but they took over an organization, not accidental, but everyone out of the way, so there's a sense of identity.

And weren't there initial meetings held in a restaurant that was notorious for homosexual activity and pederasty?

Well, the National Socialist Movement met in a gay bar called the Bratwurst Glocko and in Berlin, I believe it was.

And so that was like exclusively known?

That was actually, it was actually, it was in Munich, because that's actually, in the early days it was, because there are a lot of things where I know that.

Okay, we're gonna pick up right where you left off there, because we have to go to our midway break. Our midway break is longer than our normal breaks, because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires a 12-minute break between our two segments.

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