December 6, 2017 Show with Scott Lively & Kevin Abrams on “The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party (& its Relevance in 21st Century America)”

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This is Chris Arnsen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this

sixth day of December 2017.

I'm very excited about this program, the day after the Supreme Court heard

arguments in regard to the now infamous gay wedding cake controversy

involving the Masterpiece Bakery, and it is providential that we have

this program today because I did not even know that that was going to happen yesterday, and it's going to be interesting

to see how things develop from there.

But today we have two guests.

We have a returning guest, and we have a first -time guest.

We have Scott Lively, who's been on this program a number of times, and we have joining him today

for the very first time, Kevin Abrams.

Scott Lively is a Christian attorney and pastor, and Kevin Abrams is an Orthodox

Jew, and together they wrote The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi

Party, and we're going to be discussing its relevance in the 21st century America, and it's my

honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams.

Very good to be here.

Yes, and Kevin, it's a delight to have you on for the very first time ever.

This book, The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party, is

now entering into its fifth edition, and I want to hold the

attention of our listeners because some folks might immediately think that we are a

bunch of nuts even discussing something like this, and I just want to read

some of the commendations that this book has received over the years.

First of all, we have Dr. Judith Reisman of the Institute for Media

Education.

As a Jewish scholar who lost hundreds of her family in the Holocaust, I welcome The Pink Swastika

as courageous and timely.

Lively and Abrams reveal the reigning gay history as

revisionist and expose the super male German homosexuals for what they were,

Nazi brutes, not Nazi victims.

And we have William Norman Grigg, my dear friend, who was the former senior editor of

New American Magazine, and he just went home to be with the Lord after a heart

attack, I believe, that was subsequent to an illness he developed, and

William was a dear friend, and I had him on this program quite a number of times.

He was a Mormon convert to Christianity, and he was known by his friends as

Thesaurus Rex because of the fact that he had a computer -like

mind when it came to vocabulary and synonyms and antonyms and so on,

but my dear friend William Norman Grigg said The Pink Swastika is a tremendously valuable

book replete with impressive documentation presented in a compelling fashion.

And Stan Goodenow, Middle East Intelligence Digest, says The Pink Swastika exposes

numerous lies and tears away many myths.

Essential reading, it is a formidable boulder cast into the path of the on

-rushing homosexual express.

And then we have Dr. Mordecai Nisan, Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

The Pink Swastika is a powerful exposure of pre -World War II Germany and its quest for

reviving and imitating a Hellenistic, paganistic idea of homoeroticism and

militarism.

And then R .J. Rushduni of the Calsinon Foundation, he is well known to a

considerably large portion of my audience.

He is also with the Lord now.

R .J. Rushduni said Lively and Abrams call attention to what Hitlerism really stood for.

Abortion, euthanasia, hatred of Jews, and very emphatically homosexuality.

This many of us knew in the 1930s.

It was common knowledge, but now it is denied.

And then we have Normus Seville of the News of All

Israel, a treasury of knowledge for anyone who wants to know what really happened during the Jewish Holocaust.

And then we have Colonel Ronald Ray, former U .S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense.

Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams have done America a great service.

John Hulley, former senior economist of the World Bank, a landmark book for those who

have trouble understanding Hitler, the Holocaust, previous books, and movies.

However high their quality have left me mystified as to how the Nazi leaders could have done the things they

did.

This short book gets closer to the truth than anything I know of.

And then last but not least, Dr. Howard Hurwitz of the Family Defense Council

said the pink swastika, homosexuality in the Nazi party, is a thoroughly researched, eminently

readable demolition of the gay myth symbolized by the pink triangle that the

Nazis were anti -homosexual.

The deep roots of homosexuality in the Nazi party are brilliantly exposed.

I thought it was very valuable to read all of those.

People might be wondering why I was going on and on reading all because of the fact of the reason I just opened up the program with.

People think that you are nuts when you bring this up.

The fact that the Nazi party was founded largely by, if not entirely, by

homosexuals and that that element carried through in its leadership throughout the

entirety of the party and even has existed amongst American Nazi

parties and so on.

But if you could, both of you, I'll start with Scott.

We've discussed this before, but if you could give us an abbreviated history as to how

you developed an interest in this to begin with and then how, Kevin, you

also simultaneously developed an interest in this and how you two met and collaborated on this.

Well,

yes.

Actually, I

think Kevin

had been

like

Nazis and I thought

my job at the time

anti -homosexual and I thought my job

between the

Nazis and

then one day,

really, I mean, seriously, it's very interesting, came in, he

said, they got it all backwards.

It's the Nazis were all homosexuals and he had this hand, you know, set of handwritten

notes, like 20 or 30 pages of notes.

And, you know, I

nodded polite.

And forgot about it.

Because you also had the gut, you had the guttural reaction like most.

People that it was nuts.

Yeah, that's right.

I thought this guy's a nut.

And then we went through that election cycle.

We came pretty close, but we failed.

And then in the next election cycle,

when we got to Marion

County, wrote a letter to the

local news and

what an amazing similarity there was between,

ah, that's it, I have had enough.

I remembered this sheet of papers, I went into my file.

And then for the first time, I really read it.

And my jaw dropped to the desk

every day.

One triggered a response that

summer in

Amsterdam, on the

effective use of rhetoric.

And so in the midst of all that,

Carol Patron said, you

guys got to talk to each other, because she knew that he had been

researching.

I'll let him talk about it.

And then in that conversation, we decided to write a

book together.

Well, Kevin, if you could give us.

Your own

background

and the thing

that ignited

your

own interest

in this, being a person who tends to

empathize with the

Nazi era

experience during the Holocaust.

But I kept on running up against this, this contradiction,

that some of the key figures within the Nazi movement were actually

homosexuals and

homosexuality amongst the

leadership and

leading figures in the early round shirt movement, which were the stormtrooper.

Yeah, they were they were the ones that are.

Infamously known for Kristallnacht, who were smashing the windows of Jewish owned stores and.

Businesses, and terrorizing Jewish citizens.

That's right.

And

so I, we have

a lot of books endorses a senior

economist, the World Bank, and says that this book explains more succinctly to him, why the

Holocaust than any other book that he'd ever read, even though it's

more of most historical works are all about

the what, when

and if any,

with

ourselves, or who am I, you know,

of course, of a lifetime, who am I and why am I here?

So the whole, the who and the why became critical

aspects.

And increasingly, I ran up against this, this wall,

where

they

were

more

of a form of homo homo sexist.

And they, they preferred young boys.

And there were many scandals having to do with young boys being sexually

molested at Brown.

And even when by

Nazis,

by Nazis, you.

Yes, that's

right.

Well, by by the

bodyguard for one,

one of the leading freebooter movements, of course, we

derive the

Brown movement.

And what is a freebooter movement?

What is a freebooter?

I don't know what that means.

But those from

World

War One,

basically,

limited

to

100 ,000 men in arms.

And that put an enormous number

whole sort

of militaristic in

among

this group, they

organized

these

in

Versailles.

And one of them

homosexual,

all the other friends,

Germany had lost its car.

Yeah, in fact, I remember reading in your book, that the regular

army, the regular German army, army, had a nickname for them, the brown fairies,

because they knew that this was a fact that that they were known for their

homosexual, homosexual activity.

And Kevin mentioned the brown,.

And they had what the

brown

shirts,

and kept an

inch.

Yeah.

And to that point,.

A little

Italian

newspaper

nation

after the

assassination.

So it's

so this

Hirschfeld

faction who founded the Berlin Institute of sexology and the Scientific Humanitarian Committee

for the repeal of Section 175 of the German Penal Code, and the liberalization of

laws as they related to homosexuality.

And, and then the other side was the Bundverminderrecht, or the Society of Human Rights, which was the

Nazi, more or less affiliated with the Nazi movement, within which Ernst Rohm was a member.

And basically, they were militant, gays, and they didn't buy this business

is that homosexuals were members of a

third sex, and that they were actually women and

men were mentioned and basic.

Man.

Yeah, the, the, those on the butch side of the homosexual

activist movement in Germany would have found it very offensive to be considered

among the effeminate homosexuals, and somehow

born with a defect of some kind that they were men born in women's bodies, they thought this was a gift

or a son of superiority and maleness, actually.

You know, they had totally the Nazis referred to the

feminine homosexuality as emasculated gossips.

So they saw

the

effeminate

side of the

homo.

Wouldn't

have

liked my.

Like a

woman, that's going to get a lot more attention than a man that's acting like a man and hiding his.

Homosexuality.

Yeah, in fact, it's interesting.

I wanted to just quickly bring up and I'll let you continue your thought.

But in case there are some people that are still listening with disbelief

and shaking their heads.

The very group that has Scott Lively on a list

of the top hate groups of America, the Southern Poverty Law

Center, which also has my friend Michael Brown on that list.

But when you say that name there, excuse me.

But the very group that has you

identified as a leader of a hate group, Southern Poverty Law Center, if you go to their website,

spl center .org, and you type in gay Nazis, you get a whole

list of articles about gay Nazi groups that they are exposing.

I'll just to read a brief portion of their section on that.

Ku Klux Klansmen, neo Nazis, Christian identity adherence, racist skinheads, and odinists,

along with your garden variety white supremacists.

These are the people that populate America's radical right.

They inhabit, by definition, the outermost fringes of our society.

And then there are the gay neo Nazis.

Talk about a sect within a sect.

The members of this tiny subculture on the radical right, mainly men who inhabit web chat rooms

like gay Aryan resistance, just can't seem to get any respect.

And then it goes on and on and on, quoting from these so called gay Nazis

and so on.

So it's amazing that they would highlight you, Scott, as a hate leader

for bringing up something that existed in the earlier part of the 20th century.

And they seem to believe it is completely appropriate to be exposing contemporary

homosexual Nazis.

It makes no sense that they would be so radically opposed to you and Kevin.

And I'm not sure if they even identify Kevin because they might think it's more politically incorrect

to identify an orthodox Jewish person in this way.

But it is interesting and I can only think that the only reason that they are

attacking you is because they know that the form of Nazism that rose up in Germany in the

early part of the 20th century resulted in the deaths of millions and the contemporary

neo Nazi groups.

Although there may be some accounts of deaths and brutality, it's primarily

just a hate speech involvement that they are known

for.

But if you want to comment.

On

what I

just said.

Well, I

think

the

create

symbol

of the move triangle,

which in fact was

and then had

to stop using the pink triangle, the

rainbow as their symbol.

And they were, you know, they had money and

man.

Yes, in fact, I recall and it's amazing.

Well,.

Maybe it's not that amazing.

But I cannot find this documentary anywhere on the internet today, perhaps you guys can.

But I remember clearly, years ago, that there was an HBO

documentary that was produced and hosted by a professing

homosexual, and who was also a homosexual activist, who

launched a research journey to find out

exactly what all the details were in regard to the persecution of homosexuals

in the Nazi regime.

And the man, the young man, I can clearly remember, at the end of the documentary, he

actually admitted that the vast majority of homosexuals who died in the camps

died of illness, that they were not targeted

in any stretch of the imagination, like the Jews were.

And they were even given opportunities to be rehabilitated, if they were arrested after the

Nazis, to clean up their public relations, started to crack down and,

on the surface, persecute homosexuals.

They were given, I was just going to say, they were given a chance to rehabilitate.

They were breaking the sodomy laws.

They were identical to the sodomy laws in the United States, that people,

it wasn't, they weren't being used for putting in concentration camps, they

were just simply arrested by the police.

Yes, I hope that somebody can find that documentary,.

Because I think that it may have been permanently removed from the archives of HBO, because of the findings that this

person had.

And perhaps when they aired it, they were such a negative outcry.

I'm only assuming at this point, because I can't find it.

I can't find it anywhere.

But we're going to go to a break right now.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R

-N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if this involves a personal and private matter.

And don't go away, God willing, we will be right back with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on the

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned us in, our two guests today are Scott Lively

and Kevin Abrams.

Scott is a Christian attorney and pastor, and Kevin Abrams is an Orthodox

Jew and a journalist, and they have co -authored a book that is now entering into its fifth

edition, The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party.

We're discussing that book and also its relevance in 21st century America.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address for questions is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

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Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's pick up, Kevin, where you left off if you wanted to continue a thread of thought there, because I do

want to eventually, very soon, get to the root of the ideology

of the Nazi Party.

Why this band, this small band, which originally began as a small band of

men involved in homosexual pederasty, formed this movement?

And was the homosexual activity that they were involved in inconsequential to their

ideology?

Is it just that they happened to all be involved in that activity but had different goals and

other ideological visions that they wanted to accomplish in

Germany?

But if you could, Kevin, finish where you left off and then we will get to the root of.

That.

Just as a

reference to

the pink triangle,

Willy

Fritzscher

identifies

the

Brown

special

meeting

that was called

the SS officers

assassination of their leadership,

where

they were

and they all had to

be reapplied to enter into the new

right.

Specifically,

on page,

I think it's

430,

that homosexuals, comprised of

homosexuals, and that was

basically a way of engineering pretext,

enabling act, was this were blamed for and

so forth.

What's really interesting is that Dinesh D'Souza

put the

icing on

the history of

the North American democratic movement

and their associations in

American history, quite revealing and irrefutable, and it's actually quite a

revelation.

It's probably on the same shaking

people.

Now, one thing that we, I think, have to point out, because it may have just flown right over the heads of

many of our listeners, when you mentioned Ernst Röhm, many of our listeners probably never heard that name before,

but Ernst Röhm was a very notorious, openly homosexual

pederast.

He was not ashamed of this behavior, he was not a closeted homosexual.

He was well known by everyone as somebody who was a homosexual pederast, somebody who

enjoyed the sexual company of teenage boys or even younger, but he

is also known by those who would consider themselves

homosexual scholars and historians and liberal activists.

They all know that Ernst Röhm was a practicing open homosexual.

Nobody really denies Röhm's homosexuality, correct?

Yeah, no, it's irrefutable.

The party, Hitler was always having to...

Röhm is the one who discovered and made Hitler.

He was a Nazi before Hitler was, right?

I mean, maybe not with that name, the National Socialist Party, but he was involved in that

movement that Hitler joined, obviously, before Hitler, correct?

Right.

Sexuality with...

To do an unbiased and open and objective study of the topic and if they can get through the emotional blocks that

they might have and the preconditioning in that particular topic,

they'll come to a more clear...

So militarized.

I just want to chime in just very quickly that one of the things that is

fascinating about your book, The Pink Swastika, is how thoroughly documented it is

and much of the information that you and Scott have gathered comes

from homosexual historians who were contemporaries of Hitler and who

lived in that day, who were eyewitnesses of these things.

Exactly.

Let me comment to that point because, and frankly,

there are a

few, actually not very many, but there are

a few,

so they really don't know very much about the Nazi...

References throughout all jump outs when

you find

out many of the Nazi

leaders

were not known to be homosexual by the historian.

So only someone or both an understanding

of the mainstream history and of gay...

Now I want, as I mentioned earlier, I want you to give us an idea of

what it was that the Nazi party in its infancy was actually

founded for and what the ideology was and was the homosexual

aspect of it something that was, quote, quote, coincidental, or was it actually a

main thread in the theme of their ideology?

Right now?

Yeah, because I think that it would be good to know why there even existed a Nazi party and you've already

said that the vast majority, if not all of the initial members of

this movement were actively involved in homosexual practice.

But was that just, was that coincidental to the ideology?

Was that coincidental to the core purpose that they gathered and tried to make an

impact on Germany, which they unfortunately did, and upon the world?

But if you could...

Well,

there are

two

more

than homosexuals.

The party really came out of an occult...

Who formed the Nazi party came out of occultism, but

they took over an

organization, not

accidental,

but

everyone

out of the way, so

there's a sense of identity.

And weren't there initial meetings held in a restaurant that was notorious for homosexual activity

and pederasty?

Well, the National Socialist Movement met in a gay bar called the Bratwurst Glocko

and in Berlin, I believe it was.

And so that was like exclusively known?

That was actually, it was actually, it was in

Munich, because that's actually, in the early days it was, because

there are a lot of things where I know that.

Okay, we're gonna pick up right where you left off there, because we have to go to our midway break.

Our midway break is longer than our normal breaks, because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida,

requires a 12 -minute break between our two segments.

But please be patient with us.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do,

than how men view these things.

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And I also need to announce a couple of special events that are coming up that our listeners

need to be aware of before we return to our discussion with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams

on their book, The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality and the Nazi Party.

This Friday, December 8th, from 1130 a .m. to 1 p .m., CBMC, which stands

for Christian Businessmen's Connection, is having a special Christmas event.

Everyone is welcome to attend.

And it's on the theme, Joseph, the Quiet Hero of Christmas.

The keynote speaker at this event is my dear friend, Marcus A. McKnight III, attorney at law, managing

shareholder at Erwin and McKnight PC.

And if you would like to register for this event, you can

call 717 -249 -2353.

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they are going to waive your $20 registration, and you'll get in absolutely free of charge.

So once again, the phone number to call is 717 -249 -2353.

717 -249 -2353.

That's this Friday, December 8th, from 1130 a .m. to 1 p .m., the CBMC

special Christmas event, Joseph, the Quiet Hero of Christmas, featuring keynote speaker Marcus

A. McKnight III, attorney at law, who's also a former elder at the church where I am

currently a member, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle.

And he is currently a member of the West Shore Evangelical Free Church in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Then coming up in January from the 17th through the 20th,

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Starting on the 17th during the daytime, there will be an exclusively Spanish -speaking edition

of the conference.

Then on the evening of January 17th, there is a debate between my dear friend Dr.

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and a Muslim apologist.

Then the conference itself picks up on the 18th through the 20th.

This is exclusively in the English language.

And the featured speakers this time around at the G3 conference include,

in addition to Dr. James R. White, Stephen Lawson, Votie Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B. Charles Jr., Tim

Challies, Josh Bice, Tom Askell, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul

Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, Martha Peace, and Justin Peters.

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That's also the email address where you could send a question for our guests, Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams,

on the theme, The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party.

And we are discussing its relevance in the 21st century, especially in America.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And Scott, you were saying before the break that you had visited Munich to find some

landmarks, especially the homosexual tavern where the Nazi Party began.

It must have been an interesting question for the tour guide.

Can you bring me to the Nazi Party homosexual bar?

But tell us if you...

Well, I do my own touring.

Well, if you could pick up where you left off there if you had anything, because I do want to eventually soon get to some of our listener

questions.

Well, I was able to find the location,

and then I

found in

the subway system of Munich,

there's a...

Yeah, that's what the cabaret play was all about that, correct?

Yes, yes.

You know, it was the direct consequence

that denied

the authority.

All right.

We do have a listener from San Jose, California.

Daniel, who says, can you ask how open was homosexuality amongst the Nazis,

and was it looked down upon?

Also, can you ask how did homosexuality influence the Nazi society as a whole,

and its influence here in the United States?

Well, that's actually three questions there.

But how open?

I mean, we already discussed...

First one there, Kevin.

Sexual criminals in Germany under Section 175 of the German Penal Code who were sent to Magnitsky -Fields Institute

for examination and treatment and whatever else went on there.

This was a cover -up.

It wasn't...

Evidence that Nazis were homosexuals.

That's right, yeah.

Well, you know, I'll just...

Ranking people who were maybe less inclined in that manner, but the upper

leadership was probably to a man.

I haven't found very many who in the upper leadership of the brown shirts who weren't homosexual, who

we would consider to be gay, explain.

They didn't very much like the...

We would make a distinction between, say, homosexuals and militant gays.

Now, one thing I have to ask about that, and I don't want you to get graphic or anything, but one thing that I find

bizarre is that if they looked down upon and hated effeminate homosexuals so much, who

were their partners?

I mean, were they both butch?

I mean, were they...

Yeah, yeah.

Sexual men.

So the young boy...

The young boys that were the victims of these Nazi pederasts, homosexual pederasts,

they were not viewed as effeminate themselves, these young boys?

Yeah, especially in Afghanistan.

They do not look...

Confirm that.

But I want to make one point back to the last...

Acquired a copy...

Deny this, but now they're admitting it.

So this is not something...

This is not coming from people who are sympathetic to your views against homosexuality.

Oh, no,

no, not

by Johann Hari.

That's published on the Huffington Post, right?

This is a gay journalist on the Huffington Post

among the neo -Nazis of the modern era,

among the Nazis.

That's weird.

Why would he do that?

Why would he bash the pink swastika if he was affirming the thesis of your book?

Well, because he's saying it's an anomaly.

This is just an anomaly.

And Lively and Abrams are crazy because they're saying it.

And Kevin, I don't know if you finished your stream of thought, your...

Stream of thinking?

Yeah, right.

But if you haven't, a part of the...

I just...

Okay, go ahead.

I just wanted to mention that, just to follow up on what...

The Nazis were socialists.

They were left -wing from

the German...

Fridge on false charges of homosexuality, trumped up charges of homosexuality and have them removed

or exonerated.

It's one of the ones that...

Rome, because Rome was becoming a liability to them as far as...

Now, was it mainly because of Rome's power struggle or was it because of his homosexuality?

Both.

Rome wanted to use

as a training, kind of a training contingent for the brownshirts and make them subject to

the rule, to his rule.

And so the German...

And they demanded that they had

to turn against Rome and

congratulated him.

He was one of Germany's greatest...

Well, one of the things...

Let me tag -team on that.

Sure.

Point

out that

nobody expected,

been

planning all

these years, from the very beginning, Hitler would run the government and Ernst Rom would run the

military, right?

And so the fact that this was now coming to fruition, now you've got...

So you've got the entire...

And does

Ernst

Rom take over the military?

That was the

night of the long knives, correct?

He now knows

that he's the

only one around

and

he had to now come out...

Hard

sexuality

in

Vienna.

That's a documentable thing on the police record that still exists today, doesn't it?

That he was arrested for prostitution.

Yes, yes. It was documented.

It's...

We...

Actually...

Wow.

Actually, it

was

the

Reichstag...

So when we hear constantly the drumbeat from the liberal media about homosexuals being

persecuted by the Nazis with the same fervency as they persecuted the Jews at times, it is alleged or

it is insinuated, at least.

This is just because of a cover -up that was going on and it was nowhere,

anywhere remotely close to the kind of persecutions that Jews and gypsies and others received.

Exactly, but a small number,

relatively speaking.

James Steakley's book on the Holocaust and persecution,

he identified some homosexuals that were...

It's kind of a riddle, you know, to disentangle all this stuff is really quite a riddle.

It's kind of like it takes a forensic investigation to sort of put things where they belong.

Side with the other and you have to study the chronology and like

that he wanted to publicly portray himself to the German public and so forth.

And Hindenburg, of course, congratulated him, like I mentioned.

And so it was like it was a transitional process up to the point when Hitler achieved absolute power

and one of the means

in engineering a pre -technical and

military action.

So that's called, I call that the Reichstag.

And Carol Quirk is in Germany, yeah, in tragedy and

hope.

It's an excellent account of what really occurred.

So, but there's been an extreme and monumental effort to cover up and pervert and invert

and actually, you know, Diener de Souza does an excellent job of describing that inversion

of roles and who's a Nazi and so forth.

And who has the, because to be a Nazi is a psychological profile, has nothing to do with race whatsoever.

It's a psychological profile and has to do with character and morality and there's a spirit about it too.

And one

of the

things,

fraternal, more of a nurturing kind of brotherhood that is strongly

male and masculine, but in a benevolent,

far different than the homoerotic, which is the overmentioned

kind of character and this type of thing.

One thing that I wanna ask you, Kevin, before we run out of time later and I forget to ask, because I think

this is a very vital aspect of our discussion.

I think one of the reasons that this is very important, this discussion, one of the many reasons,

is that the victimhood of the Jews and the gypsies and

others during the Holocaust, where millions of them were tortured and

exterminated, the victimhood of the Jews is

being diluted by homosexual activists who are jumping on

that bandwagon of demanding to be viewed as a persecuted

people, if you will.

And I want to know from you, as an Orthodox Jew, how this offends you, because I think this is one of

the main reasons we should talk about things like this.

Well, you know, the Holocaust is one of the most powerful and dramatic victim metaphors available,

not only by this

movement, but by

other groups to

identify as a victim,

entitlement and,

you know, I

demand American culture in North

America and the Western world today.

And, but the exploitation of the Holocaust was a very cynical move,

because it's a sanction and the

Jews

who are

predisposed,

equal currency.

The Holocaust is being unjustly,

and that, it's a tremendous insult to those who

live their life.

Usually they just move on and get on with their life and sort of learn from what happened.

And often there are two rays

around about his victimhood and makes a big, so I think victim

politics are some of them.

Wasn't there a backlash or an outcry

from people who Jews were actually victims of the Holocaust when they had heard that one of the

Holocaust museums included a wing dedicated to homosexual

victims, and they were upset because they knew that the homosexuals were actually torturing them

and making life even more miserable in the camps for them.

Isn't that something that occurred?

I mean, on

one

hand

That's the person that we see in the media who's a very effeminate libertarian.

He calls himself a libertarian.

Right.

Okay.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, he has this, he's more from the actual world and

he has been sexual.

And a lot of this happens when people are younger.

This is how a lot of people are inducted into the homosexual world.

It's the other side of pederasty.

And they just think that it's just part of the, you know, part, you know -.

Wasn't there a protest, though, by Jewish victims of the Holocaust, Holocaust survivors at one point?

I don't know if it was in Israel or somewhere.

You might be thinking of, yeah,

there

was a protest

in Germany.

That the Nazi party probably never would have occurred.

It just wouldn't have happened.

We're going to our final break right now.

If anybody wants to join us on the air, do so quickly at chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

We have a few of you still waiting to get on with your questions and we'll get to as many of you as possible as long as

time permits, or as many as time permits.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on the Pink Swastika.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Sorensen.

This is our final 25 minutes or so of our interview with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on

their book, The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party.

Now entering into its fifth edition due to a lot of new discoveries

and documentable evidence to prove the point of their thesis.

And if you'd like to join us, now's the time to do it.

Chris Sorensen at gmail .com.

And one of the things that we didn't get to that Daniel in San Jose, California brings up as he says,

how, well, first of all, when the Nazi Party became this

massive machine, when there were thousands and thousands of people involved in this

party, and they were on the brink of conquering the world, how

heavily influenced was this party at that point by actual people

practicing homosexuality?

And how well known was it among the party itself when it became this massive thing?

Daniel.

Well, let me, let me jump in on this one.

Here are the number of people in the Nazi Party, the more the homosexual

and the upper echelons, really most important

matter at much a

trajectory,

ideology, the ideology

had been created.

And that, and this, and that, that

super

macho

Nazism, and then the whole nation all the way through.

So it really didn't matter in the later days, how many of the, how many, what percentage

of the leaders were homosexual at that point?

Because it was a machine that had, it was a robot, a juggernaut that had already been built.

John.

And the other thing that Daniel asks about is the influence of homosexual

Nazism here in America.

I happen to know that while reading the book, the classic work on George Lincoln Rockwell called

Hate, George Lincoln Rockwell and the American Nazi Party, that Rockwell was

continually embarrassed by homosexual activity going on amongst his small band of

nut jobs.

And in fact,.

John I know what he said.

John.

Yeah, well, and you go on YouTube and you see him being interviewed.

And he, the interviewer is addressing that very thing about the rumors, the rampant rumors

that the American Nazi Party was a band of homosexuals.

And then we have Frank Collins, who picked up the mantle after the

assassination of George Lincoln Rockwell years later, when

Frank Collins began the National Socialist Party here in America or

relaunched it.

He was arrested for homosexual pederasty, right?

John.

Yeah, well, he was notorious for 1977 leading the Nazi march on Skokie,

which actually

wasn't in

Skokie.

John.

And they picked Skokie because of the high population of Holocaust survivors, correct?

Frank.

Right, right.

And this guy, he was a, he was the classic homosexual Nazi.

And then a couple of years after, doesn't he

go into

captivity?

John.

He changed his name.

John.

And he was not open, though, about his homosexuality, I don't think, correct?

Frank No, it wasn't until he was arrested for pederasty that...

John.

And you guys...

Frank.

The other figure...

John.

Go ahead, go ahead.

Frank.

The other figure in America has booned

for mentions

wrecked,

which was

the Nazi in 1925,

mentions wrecked in America.

So that was the original seed of the Nazi movement in so far as the...

Frank Yeah, and in fact, the guy that was the leader of the...

Frank Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Frank.

Well, I just wanted to, if you don't know German, you don't know the significance of the title.

This is the German Society for Human Rights.

Frank.

Right.

Frank.

The whole concept of homosexuality as a human right.

Frank.

Right.

And one of the things that I learned from your book, The Pink Swastika, is that the

leader, or one of the leaders of the Act Up movement that used to vandalize churches and do all kinds of

grotesque things during worship services, perhaps predominantly in Roman Catholic churches,

that person later admit that he was influenced heavily by Mein Kampf, correct?

Frank.

Well, yes, of course.

And that the Columbine,

and also

they talked much about...

He created the philosophy that empowered them.

And then, of course, that he

acquired a whole

pillars of...

Frank.

In fact, you guys wrote about in your book, I don't remember the person's name.

It wasn't in America.

It was in England, in the UK, that the, I believe, the founder, or one of the founders

of the Skinhead movement, who was a brutal, violent individual, actually died of

AIDS.

And he was a homosexual, involved in homosexual pornography.

Am I right?

Frank.

He was in the National Front.

I forget the guy's name myself.

It was the National Front.

Which still exists today.

Even though

Maureen,

rising up, she's...

And that, you know, this is nationalism.

Male homosexuals, like moths to a flame.

And so they're themselves,

and real identity that everyone's pursuing.

What were the National Front.

Straight out of the.

Early brownshirt days?

Same mentality.

Frank.

And by the way, thank you, Daniel.

Daniel from San Jose, California, for your question.

In fact, you have won because of your contribution to our show today.

You have won a copy of the fourth edition of the Pink Swastika.

And we thank you for being a part of our program today.

Keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in San Jose, California, and beyond.

We have a listener in Slovenia.

Joe in Slovenia, who says, Dear Brother Chris, this topic is so unsettling,

yet I'm again thankful to you for having the courage to address the tough topics.

I've always been puzzled by the fact that Adolf Hitler never married until just hours before his death

and is not known to have had heterosexual relations with women.

It seems really strange to me that Eva Brown was his companion who apparently was frustrated by the

arrangement since she tried to commit suicide twice.

Was she just a fixture to create the illusion that Hitler was heterosexual?

Did Hitler not marry and conduct a normal heterosexual life with her because he was in fact a

sodomite?

And it's interesting that in the original editions of the Pink Swastika, you guys

both did not believe, or at least you didn't have documented evidence that Hitler was himself

a homosexual, but you later became convinced of it.

If you could explain that.

We did make reference to

during

both

the Weimar

and the

by

Moxon,

I believe it is.

Yeah, Lothar Moxon.

Yes, and he wrote a book.

One of them was his niece, right?

Was Gellie, yeah.

She was exposing the fact that he was a corpophile, correct?

Yeah, that's right.

I want to make sure that we get this in before

we go off the air because we're running out of time.

But without just speculation, without just having a

guttural feeling about it, who can you confirm in Nazi leadership

from documented evidence was a homosexual?

Lothar Moxon's book is quite powerful.

You can go into any of

them, doing that analysis.

The guy that was assassinated,.

Was it?

No, no, this is a more obscure one.

Well, he was a very high ranking

Nazi, Heinz,

Wolf

von

Helldorf, people directly around

the Gauleiter was

a transvestite.

Yes, in

fact, there was a secular.

Documentary on the Nuremberg trials.

And this was a secular documentary.

And it affirmed that Herman Goering, when he was arrested by the American

military, he had on his possession, women's makeup.

They actually brought that up.

They made a point of bringing that up in the documentary.

Tell us about these new discoveries that are not included in the fourth edition of the Pink Swastika, or some of them

anyway.

It's hard to do that.

What we material

that just

simply highlights or

identifies a particular person.

And,

you

know,

well, I'd

like

to.

I think Scott would agree.

It's been a very tough topic, too.

It's not an easy topic.

We're going against the flow and their opinion on the topics and so

forth.

So just

from an emotional and intellectual perspective, it's you

really have to sort of temper yourself to the material that you're dealing with.

Well, I'd like you each.

I'd like you each to make sure that you let our listeners know why is this relevant in the 21st century,

especially in America?

And because this other than the fact that this is maybe fascinating for those who love

war history and all that kind of thing, they might find this this

oddity of history to be fascinating.

But other than that, what practical input does this have to our

current generation?

This is not an under the sun,

very long book in the millennia.

I guess what I meant by that was odd behavior, odd behavior by a global movement that

nearly conquered the world.

That's really what I meant.

Well, if you don't, if you can't learn from

then there are lessons that can be derived therefrom.

Then the lessons that you'll come away with will only

get one

up on.

Protect the next generation by educating.

And one other

one of the things I like to point that the pink swastika is

a

phenomenon.

You

can

look all

shortly after the end

to breathe a big sigh of relief.

And then he

coined the phrase.

From the 1920s onwards in a movement to gain supreme control of the German people.

As the movement developed, they were aided and abetted and supported financially as well as politically by the

industrial capital.

But the initiative did not come from the latter.

It came from Hitler as the contradictory of a band of evil men who were united

together.

Wow.

Well, I'd like you to now in two minutes summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of

our listeners today involving this program.

And you could each chime in if you'd like, and I'll let you know when we're running out of time.

Almost

that homosexuality

in court now trying to preserve his right

without

the gun and without having

to

And Kevin?

Anyways, I'm praying for a

point.

I ask that may America and her people bless and affirm God and the moral and ethical covenant

established between him and mankind through Israel over 3 ,400 years ago at Mount Sinai.

It is God's expressed wish that all men guard their personal dignity and the dignity of their fellow man.

This is achieved through the founding of honest ways and measures and a moral and healthy service of any

human civility dedicated to the honor of God

of all life.

Secondly, and furthermore, this book is dedicated to the dignity of man into which our creator

that no man should ever by his actions bring shame to either God himself or his brother.

That in this regard, so whereas we entreat God to bless America in

all her endeavors, we must understand this is a reciprocal and

affirm him in his ways.

It is my passionate desire and wish that America regains her spiritual vision and sense

of true cause.

It is in this way we'll once again grace

America's shores.

That was very powerful and I want our listeners to know that the two websites that you can go to for more details

are scottlively .net, scottlively .net, and also defendthefamily .com, defendthefamily

.com.

Thank you so much for being on our program today, both of you.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are

a sinner.

I look forward to hearing from you and your questions for our guests tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.