December 6, 2017 Show with Scott Lively & Kevin Abrams on “The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party (& its Relevance in 21st Century America)”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this sixth day of December 2017.

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I'm very excited about this program the day after the Supreme Court heard arguments in regard to the now infamous gay wedding cake controversy involving the

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Masterpiece Bakery and it is providential that we have this program today because I did not even know that that was going to happen yesterday.

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It's going to be interesting to see how things develop from there, but today we have two guests.

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We have a returning guest and we have a first -time guest. We have Scott Lively who's been on this program a number of times and we have joining him today for the very first time

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Kevin Abrams. Scott Lively is a Christian attorney and pastor and Kevin Abrams is an

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Orthodox Jew and together they wrote the pink swastika homosexuality in the

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Nazi Party and we're going to be discussing its relevance in the 21st century America and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams.

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Very good to be here Chris. Thank you Chris for having us on the show. Yes and Kevin it's a delight to have you on for the very first time ever.

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This book, the pink swastika homosexuality in the

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Nazi Party is now entering into its fifth edition and I want to hold the attention of our listeners because some folks might immediately think that we are a bunch of nuts even discussing something like this and I just want to read some of the commendations that this book has received over the years.

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First of all we have Dr. Judith Reisman of the Institute for Media Education.

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As a Jewish scholar who lost hundreds of her family in the Holocaust I welcome the pink swastika as courageous and timely.

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Lively and Abrams reveal the reigning gay history as revisionist and expose the super male

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German homosexuals for what they were. Nazi brutes not Nazi victims.

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And we have William Norman Grigg my dear friend who was the former senior editor of New American magazine and he just went home to be with the

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Lord after a heart attack I believe that was subsequent to a an illness he developed and William was a dear friend and I had him on this program quite a number of times.

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He was a Mormon convert to Christianity and he was known by his friends as Thesaurus Rex because of the fact that he had a computer like mind when it came to vocabulary and synonyms and antonyms and so on but my dear friend

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William Norman Grigg said the pink swastika is a tremendously valuable book replete with impressive documentation presented in a compelling fashion and Stan Goodenough Middle East Intelligence Digest says the pink swastika exposes numerous lies and tears away many myths essential reading it is a formidable boulder cast into the path of the onrushing homosexual

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Express. And then we have a Dr. Mordecai Nisan Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

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The pink swastika is a powerful exposure of pre World War two Germany and its quest for reviving and imitating a

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Hellenistic paganistic idea of homoeroticism and militarism. And then

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R .J. Rushdoony of the Calsinon Foundation he is well known to a considerably large portion of my audience.

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He is also with the Lord now. R .J. Rushdoony said lively in Abrams call attention to what

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Hitlerism really stood for abortion euthanasia hatred of Jews and very emphatically homosexuality.

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This many of us knew in the 1930s it was common knowledge but now it is denied.

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Then we have Norma Seville of the news of all Israel a treasury of knowledge for anyone who wants to know what really happened during the

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Jewish Holocaust. And then we have Colonel Ronald Ray former US Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense.

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Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams have done America a great service. John Hulley former senior economist of the

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World Bank a landmark book for those who have trouble understanding Hitler the

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Holocaust previous books and movies however high their quality have left me mystified as to how the

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Nazi leaders could have done the things they did. This short book gets closer to the truth than anything

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I know of. And then last but not least Dr. Howard Hurwitz of the

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Family Defense Council said the pink swastika homosexuality in the Nazi Party is a thoroughly researched eminently readable demolition of the gay myth symbolized by the pink triangle that the

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Nazis were anti -homosexual. The deep roots of homosexuality in the

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Nazi Party are brilliantly exposed. I thought it was very valuable to read all of those people might be wondering why

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I was going on and on reading all of those because of the fact of the reason I just opened up the program with people think that you are nuts when you bring this up.

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The fact that the Nazi Party was founded largely by if not entirely by homosexuals and that that element carried through in its leadership throughout the entirety of the party and even has existed amongst

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American Nazi parties and so on. But if you could both of you

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I'll start with Scott we've discussed this before but if you could give us an abbreviated history as to how you developed an interest in this to begin with and then how

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Kevin you also simultaneously developed an interest in this and how you two met and collaborated on this book.

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Well yes actually I think Kevin had been working on this theme for for quite some time before we met.

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My interest was peaked in it because I was the communications director for the

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Oregon Citizens Alliance and we had a ballot measure back in 1992 to amend the

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Oregon state constitution to stop special rights based on sexual orientation and the campaign that the the left waged against us in that state was centered on the theme that people who oppose gay rights are like Nazis and I thought my job at the time

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I believe the common wisdom that the Nazis were anti homosexual and I thought my job as communications director was to distinguish between the

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Nazis hate -based opposition and our you know biblical and cultural and sociological opposition to homosexuality and then one day in the campaign this sort of wild -eyed

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Mormon guy kind of reminiscent of Doc Brown from Back to the

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Future. Really I mean seriously he was a very interesting character and he came in he said they got it all backwards it's the

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Nazis were all homosexuals and they he had this hand you know set of handwritten notes like 20 or 30 pages of notes of things of citations he had copied from various books he's sort of a researcher and and you know

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I nodded politely and you know I glanced at it thanked him and and then sent him on his way and then stuck it in a file and forgot about it.

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Because you also had the gut you had the guttural reaction like most people that it was nuts. Yeah that's right that I thought this guy's a nut and then we went through that election cycle we came pretty close but we failed and then in the next election cycle we were doing a series of city and county measures based on the same language and when we got to Marion County the capital where the capital seat is

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Salem the state capital is in Marion County the the director of the opposition campaign wrote a letter to the local newspaper the

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Salem Statesman Journal saying he just returned from a visit to Germany where he'd been to Dachau and and what an amazing similarity there was between the

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Oregon Citizens Alliance and the Nazi Party and I thought that's it I have had enough I remembered this sheet of papers

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I went into my files I pulled it out and then for the first time I really read it and and my jaw dropped to the desk when

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I realized just that I've been you know sitting on a gold mine here of or really a powder keg of dynamite and then

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I so I wrote a guest opinion to the newspaper and it set off this incredible firestorm of controversy there was it went back and forth for about six weeks every day and the first one triggered a response from a history professor at Western College and then you know just exploded from there and it was so significant that the local professor of rhetoric at Willamette University wrote a paper about the exchange he used to exchange is the basis for paper that he delivered that summer in Amsterdam on the effective use of rhetoric and so in the midst of all this as this fires is raging about this topic

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Carol Patron Catholic researcher in OCA knew who knows

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Kevin got us together on the telephone said you guys got to talk to each other because she knew that he had been researching

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I'll let him talk about his own background on this and and then in that conversation the first time we ever met by phone we decided to write a book together and that's that's where the pink swastika comes from well

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Kevin if you could give us your own background and the thing that ignited your own interest in this well you know

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I've been doing research Holocaust research and Second World War history studies for quite a number of years

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I started probably as far back as 1985 and one of the paths that that I went down was this whole you know question of homosexuals being persecuted alongside the

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Jewish people during the Holocaust and and being a person who tends to empathize with the victim

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I kind of embraced like Scott I embraced the idea of homosexual victimization during the

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Nazi era somewhat similar to what the Jewish people experienced during the

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Holocaust but I kept on running up against this this contradiction that some of the key figures within the

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Nazi movement were actually homosexuals themselves in fact the more

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I looked into it the more I found evidence of homosexuality amongst the leadership and many of the top leaders of the

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Nazi movement in the early days especially like Ernst Romm and Edmund Hines and Gerhardt Rosbach and so forth who were all leading figures in the early round shirt movement which were the stormtrooper or the street baller yeah they were they were the ones that are infamously known for Kristallnacht who were smashing the windows of Jewish owned stores and businesses and terrorizing

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Jewish citizens that's right and I looked at that and I said well

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I asked myself that question because of course as an investigative journalist or as a lay psycho historian that wants to understand the who and why of history we have a lot of books like for instance

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John Hawley endorses our book a former senior economist for the World Bank and says that this book explains more succinctly to him why the

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Holocaust could have happened than any other book that he'd ever read even though you know they had been extremely well documented and of course more of most historical works are all about the what when and where and deal very little if any with the who and the why what where and when is the framing of history but the who and the why is the contents of the picture is the is the is the centerpiece it's like you know the questions that we ask about ourselves or by about other people is who am

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I you know maybe a question that we ask that we grow into throughout the course of a lifetime who am I and why am

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I here so the whole is the who and the why became critical aspects of my investigation into Nazi history and World War two history and increasingly

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I ran up against this this wall where I could no longer reconcile the victimization of homosexuals by the

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Nazis with the with the with the with the evidence that that the leading

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Nazis were actually militant what we would probably refer to as militant gay pederasts because they were they were more of a over mention or butch form of homo homo sexist and they they preferred young boys and there were many scandals having to do with young boys being sexually molested at Brown at the

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Brown House in Berlin and even when by Nazis by Nazis yes that's right well by the brown shirts the

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Nazi the Nazi later on in Nazi history or National Socialist history there emerged of course the

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SS and the SS became Hitler's personal bodyguard and the brown shirts were a power unto themselves that reached some you know close to four million members at one point and they were made up of originally of disbanded free booter movements from World War one and they kind of became a law unto themselves and one of the leading free booter movements of course was led by a fellow by the name of Gerhard Rosbach who was a homo sexist and a pederast and he that's from him that we derived the brown shirt that was

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Gerhard Rosbach we very we hear very little about Gerhard Rosbach but it was a key figure in the early in the rise of the early

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Nazi movement and what is a free voter movement what is a free booter I don't know what that means but those are there were about a hundred and fifty disbanded military units from World War one from the

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German Reich square the regular German army and they were just just loosely that they would just sort of roamed around and they were they didn't they were just they became a law unto themselves and they just basically they became like gangs more or less

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I just just disbanded soldiers from World War one basically units of soldiers

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I can add to that I can add to that too because this is a this is something I've talked a lot about in interviews with this because people are very curious about how this could have happened it's really remember the

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Treaty of Versailles had limited the German nation to a hundred thousand men in arms and that put an enormous number of soldiers out of work and and this whole sort of nationalist movement very heavily militaristic in military industrial complex was still intact but it had been defeated and these are the officers of the of the among this group they organized these men into you know sports clubs and you know some of them were like gangs and etc one of the terms used for them was fry corps free corps you know independent you know free from the military corps but they that in this way they could have used the junior officers of the former

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German military as leaders of these these groups that were really they were they were very it was a cover to keep the military together and in violation of the

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Treaty of Versailles and one of them was the most important to our story and that is

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Gerhard Rostock's Rostock bund which was exclusively homosexual and and they were also the distinct from all the other fry corps because they they dressed in the brown uniforms of the

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Germany had lost its colonies in Africa during the First World War and so the

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German surplus stores were full of these leftover uniforms and so Rostock had his men dressed in these all the rest of them were dressed in gray the standard

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German uniform but so they became known as the brown shirts and so the earliest brothers were all homosexuals yeah in fact

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I remember reading in your book that the regular army the regular

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German army army had a nickname for them the brown fairies because they knew that this was a fact that that they were known for their homosexual so homosexual activity and Kevin mentioned the brown house the brown house was in Munich the headquarters of the brown shirts and they were and they had wild parties everybody knew what's going on there they were these were these were homosexual you know extremely violent militaristic guy these are these are bully boys from the street they would just beat people up and and they had wild homosexual orgies in the brown house that were notorious they were famous actually throughout

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Europe it's one of the reasons why Mussolini hated Ernst Röhm so much is because of the reputation that he had for what the brown shirts were doing you know under his authority and to that point to that point a very you know a semi -official

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Italian newspaper with the with the assassination after the assassination of the

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Chancellor Dolfos in Austria who was killed by Nazis he the newspaper

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Il Popolo reported that pederasts and assassins rule in Berlin so there was a direct semi -official reference to the nature of the

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Nazi movement in in one of these semi -official Italian newspapers because Dolfos was was friendly with with Mussolini and Mussolini was quite upset when

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Dolfos was was assassinated by the Nazis so it's so you know going from there

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I mean we look at the we look at the Holocaust itself and of course there was a more or less a civil war that you know became began to emerge in my study between the two factions of course since with Scott we further develop that theme that there was there were two two sides to the homosexual world in Germany one was the

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Magnus Hirschfeld faction who founded the Berlin Institute of Sexology and the Scientific Humanitarian Committee for the repeal of section 175 of the

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German Penal Code and and the liberalization of laws as they related to homosexuality and and then the other side was the

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Bundvermenschrecht or the Society of Human Rights which was the Nazi more or less affiliated with the

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Nazi movement within which Ernst Rohm was a member and basically they were militant gays and they didn't buy this business about a woman in a man's body which was what

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Magnus Hirschfeld was was promoting was that homosexuals were members of a third sex and and that they were actually women in men's bodies and that but but but the militant you know gay pederast he saw himself as a superior type of over mention and basically it was basically an aspect of the superior man yeah the the those on the butch side of the homosexual activist movement in Germany would have found it very offensive to be considered among the effeminate homosexuals and somehow born with a defect of some kind that they were men born in women's bodies they thought this was a gift or a sign of superiority and maleness actually you know they had totally totally opposing opinions so yeah actually the

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Nazis referred to the feminine homosexuals as emasculated gossips so they saw the effeminate side of the homosexual world as being rather emasculated and weak and so to speak they wouldn't have liked

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Milo and the other guy the other guy that's coming out now there's sort of the it's being accused of being a white supremacist another young man about the same age that they represent a butcher masculine alternative to the what's traditionally recognized as a feminine male homosexuality is really the identity of gay men in America even though you know half of the homosexual population leans the masculine side as opposed to the feminine side that's what gets the attention because they stand out anytime a man is acting like a woman that's going to get a lot more attention than a man that's acting like a man and hiding his homosexuality at the same time yeah in fact it's interesting

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I wanted to just quickly bring up and I'll let you continue your thought but in case there are some people that are still listening with disbelief and shaking their heads the very group that has

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Scott Lively on a list of the top hate groups of America the

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Southern Poverty Law Center which also has my friend Michael Brown on that list but the very group that has you identified as a leader of a hate group

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Southern Poverty Law Center if you go to their website SPL Center org and you type in gay

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Nazis you get a whole list of articles about gay Nazi groups that they are exposing

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I'll just to read a brief portion of their section on that Ku Klux Klansman neo -nazis

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Christian identity adherence racist skinheads and odinists along with your garden variety white supremacists these are the people that populate

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America's radical right they inhabit by definition the outermost fringes of our society and then there are the gay neo -nazis talk about a sect within a sect the members of this tiny subculture on the radical right mainly men who inhabit web chat rooms like gay

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Aryan resistance just can't seem to get any respect and then it goes on and on and on quoting from these so -called gay

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Nazis and and so on so it's it's amazing that they would highlight you Scott as a hate leader of a hair for bringing up something that existed in the earlier part of the 20th century and they seem to believe it is completely appropriate to be exposing contemporary homosexual

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Nazis it makes no sense that they would be so radically opposed to you and Kevin and I'm not sure if they even identify

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Kevin because they might think it's more politically incorrect to identify an

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Orthodox Jewish person in this way but it is interesting and I can only think that the only reason that they are attacking you is because they know that the form of Nazism that rose up in Germany in the early part of the 20th century resulted in the deaths of millions and the contemporary neo -nazi groups although there may be some accounts of deaths and brutality it's it's primarily just a hate speech involvement that they are known for but if you want to comment on what

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I just said well if I think the I think that the Southern Poverty Law Center is at the core of the hard left in America and they're furious that what

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Kevin and I did when we published the first edition of the pink swastika back in 1995 we interrupted a what was its second decade of propaganda attempting to create you know fabricate a gay

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Holocaust equivalent to what happened to the Jews the entire LGBT movement was using that as its basis for an appeal for sympathy in fact the symbol of the movement nationally was the inverted pink triangle which in fact was used by the

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Nazis to designate homosexuals who are relatively few a number in the work camps not the death camps and and so when we came out with the pink swastika and we exposed the the deep and wide roots of the

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Nazi of Nazi Party in homosexuality itself and then that was picked up by Orthodox rabbis across the then they had to stop using the pink triangle they had to abandon it that's when they shifted to using the rainbow as their symbol and they were you know they had invested an enormous amount of money and man -hours into sort of building this you know propaganda structure it was a victim narrative that they exploited politically yes in fact

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I recall and it's amazing well maybe it's not that amazing but I cannot find this documentary anywhere on the internet today perhaps you guys can but I remember clearly years ago that there was an

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HBO documentary that was produced and hosted by a professing homosexual and who was also a homosexual activist who launched a research journey to find out exactly what all the details were in regard to the persecution of homosexuals in the

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Nazi regime and the man the young man I can clearly remember at the end of the documentary he actually admitted that the vast majority of homosexuals who died in the camps died of illness that they were not targeted in any stretch of the imagination like the

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Jews were and they were even given opportunities to be rehabilitated if they were arrested after the

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Nazis to clean up their public relations started to crack down and on the surface persecute homosexuals they were given

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I would just want to say they were given a chance to rehabilitate the sodomy laws they were arrested for violating the sodomy laws that were on the books in Germany that were identical to the sodomy laws in the

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United States that people were being jailed for there it wasn't they weren't being herded like the

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Jews were putting they were just simply arrested by the police for violating laws that were commonplace around the whole world yes

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I hope that somebody can find that documentary because I think that it may have been permanently removed from the archives of HBO because of the findings that this person had and perhaps when they aired it they were such a negative outcry

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I'm only assuming at this point because I can't find it I can't find it anywhere but we're gonna go to a break right now and if anybody would like to join us on the air our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

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chris a r n z e n at gmail .com please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA please only remain anonymous if this involves a personal and private matter and don't go away

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God willing we will be right back with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on the pink swastika homosexuality in the

31:35

Nazi Party right after these messages from our sponsors iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year -round

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35:48

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forward slash iron sharpens today welcome back this is

37:39

Chris Arnsen if you just tuned us in our two guests today are lively and Kevin Abrams Scott is a

37:47

Christian attorney and pastor and Kevin Abrams is an Orthodox Jew and a journalist and they have co -authored a book that is now entering into its fifth edition the pink swastika homosexuality in the

38:02

Nazi Party we're discussing that book and also its relevance in 21st century

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America if you'd like to join us on the air our email address for questions is Chris Arnsen at gmail .com

38:14

chrisarnzen at gmail .com please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

38:23

USA please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and but let's pick up Kevin where you left off if you wanted to continue a thread of thought there because I do want to very soon get to the root of the ideology of the

38:44

Nazi Party why this band this small band which originally began as a small band of men involved in homosexual pederasty formed this movement and was the homosexual activity that they were involved in inconsequential to their ideology it was is it just that they happen to all be involved in that activity but had different goals and other ideological visions that they wanted to accomplish in Germany but but if you could

39:19

Kevin finish where you left off and then we will get to the root of that just just to enlarge on Scott's reference to the pink triangle

39:28

Willie Fritzscher and his historical documentation identifies the brown shirts after the blood purge of June 30th

39:37

July 1st 1934 as he identifies the use of the of the brown triangle to which was attached to Rome's followers because after Rome's assassination or or after he was eliminated in in the purge the brown shirts became enemies of the state and one of the reasons for that is is that some the brown shirt shirts knew the leadership other leaders rank -and -file knew that that the

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SS had been complicit in the elimination of their leadership at a special meeting that was called where Edmund Hines Rome's you know gay lover was assassinated and so forth or was was was machine -gunned by SS officers in the early morning but they were they were labeled with brown triangles which is a very few references to that but the but 150

40:33

SS officers were were were assassinated by Rome's followers in payback for the assassination of their leadership or the murder of their leadership and the tunics that to the tunics of the

40:46

SS were attached Rome's Avengers a note that this was in revenge for Rome's elimination so they were they were turned made made criminals you know enemies of the state and disbanded primarily and they all had to be reapplied to enter into the newly constituted or expanded

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German Reichswehr or military and so they were vetted anew for their for their character and proclivities and loyalties and so forth and that was the end of the brown shirts at that point but but further to that Gerald Quigley and his monumental work tragedy and hope a history of the world in our time right specifically on page

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I think it's 436 of his book or 435 434 that it was a homosexual an arson squad comprised of homosexuals who were tasked with the torching of the

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Reichstag in 1934 and that was basically a way of engineering pretext for suspension of political opposition and the enabling act was was an outcome of the

42:03

Reichstag fire the communists were blamed for and so forth what's really interesting is that Dinesh D'Souza has written a book which he titled the big lie in which he exposes the

42:15

Nazi movement as a left -wing socialist movement which is something that we've

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Scott and I have put forth for years now and and now Dinesh D'Souza has put the icing on the cake so to speak and really sort of brought forth the the history of the

42:36

North American Democratic movement and their their associations and affiliations and so forth in American history which is quite quite revealing and irrefutable and it's actually quite a revelation it's probably on the same scale as the pink swastika is in terms of shaking people's belief system or what they've been convinced or or seduced into believing now one thing that we

43:04

I think have to point out because it may have just flown right over the heads of many of our listeners when you mentioned

43:10

Ernst Rome they probably many of our listeners probably never heard that name before but Ernst Rome was a very notorious openly homosexual pederast he was not ashamed of this behavior he was not a closeted homosexual he was well known by everyone as somebody who was a homosexual pederast somebody who enjoyed the sexual company of teenage boys or even younger but he is also known by those who would consider themselves homosexual scholars and historians and liberal activists they are they will know that Ernst Rome was a practicing open homosexual that nobody really denies

43:59

Rome's homosexuality correct that's correct yeah no it's irrefutable because he was so open about it and actually quite an embarrassment to the party if it was always having to cover for him but you know you got to understand that Rome was like a father figure to Hitler Rome is the one who discovered and made

44:18

Hitler and Hitler was was very very deeply indebted to Rome he was a

44:23

Nazi before Hitler was right I mean not maybe not with that name the National Socialist Party but he was involved in that movement that Hitler joined

44:43

Hitler addressed Rome with the personal prefix of do like it's an endearing prefix it's basically my dear pure you know and so forth only him and Ruth and Hess Rudolf Hess used that enduring term with Hitler they were the only ones that were all that permitted to do that they were on very personal on a very personal basis with Hitler but anyways it's you know the history and the documentation of this correlation of homosexuality with with the

45:16

National Socialist movement is quite substantial and you know the pink swastika is supported by that documentation which which is bordering on over 200 different sources so people if they're willing to do an unbiased and open an objective study of the topic and if they can get through the emotional blocks that they might have and the preconditioning that they've been subjected to on this particular topic they'll come to a more clear you know picture of what what this particular history is and what it represents in terms of politics and geopolitical you know problem you know like in terms of what what happened with Germany you know in World War two and so forth and how it became so ferociously you know so militarized.

46:10

Now I just want to also I want to chime in just very quickly that one of the things that is fascinating about your book the pink swastika is how thoroughly documented it is and much of the information that you and Scott have gathered comes from homosexual historians who were contemporaries of Hitler and who lived in that day who are eyewitnesses of these things.

46:39

Exactly. Well let me let me comment to that point because this is a

46:45

I think it's as many as 20 % of our sources are homosexual and and frankly when there are a few not actually not very many but there are a few sort of you know college professors that have you know taken the stand that the pink swastika is illegitimate and and you know most of the historians of the

47:12

Nazi period they really don't know very much about the Nazi aspects that if there are references throughout all the works you know thousands of references but they're scattered and it they really don't jump out with the significance that they have until you overlay gay history over mainstream history.

47:34

That's when you find the identification of all the individual figures as being homosexual that many of the

47:42

Nazi leaders in the early days and later were not known to be homosexual by the historians of the period.

47:49

They were essentially outed by their own in the gay publications and so only only someone or only people who have both an understanding of the mainstream history and of gay history are going to be able to put the pieces together and that's really what that's really the major thing that we did is to bring both parallel views and and and chronicles of what happened in the

48:20

Nazi era and and weave them back together so that the whole picture could be shown.

48:26

Now I want as I mentioned earlier I want you to to give us an idea of what it was that the

48:35

Nazi Party in its infancy was actually founded for and what the ideology was and was the homosexual aspect of it something that was quote quote coincidental or was it actually a main thread in the theme of their ideology?

48:57

You want us to tackle that right now? Yeah because I think that it would be good to know why there even existed a

49:03

Nazi Party and when you've already said that the vast majority if not all of the the initial members of this this movement were actively involved in homosexual practice but what was that just was that coincidental to the ideology was that coincidental to the the core purpose that they gathered and and tried to make an impact on Germany which they unfortunately did and upon the world but if you could.

49:35

Well there are two there are two elements of the story that we need to bring in we've mentioned the militarism and the nationalism that existed that was of course a major theme that this the the

49:49

Weimar government that was established after World War one it was socialist it was aligned with the effeminate branch of the

49:59

Nazi gay subculture and and it involved you know more many more people than homosexuals were concerned about the socials having taken over so there's that was one primary theme that was in play the other was occultism and the the people that came together to form the

50:20

Nazi Party really came out of an occultic background and and this was particularly appealing always has been occultism always been particularly appealing to homosexuals because they really don't have any place in the

50:35

Judeo -Christian you know worldview right so there when they are looking for some spiritual you know legitimacy they're going to the occult world because they're welcome there that and so both of those sort of themes were in play when the

50:55

Nazi Party was formed and and the the the people who formed the

51:00

Nazi Party came out of occultism and but they took over an organization that was just simply a political party with the

51:07

German Workers Party and but they took it over in order to be able to have a vehicle to be able to advance their nationalistic goals and the homosexuality of the people was it was incidental to the to the purpose of the organization but it was not accidental because the because the homosexuality bound them together they it established a sort of a special loyalty among the adherents that you know this sort of a homosexual homoerotic brotherhood in these butch oriented masculine oriented homosexuals that was very different than the other group and why they rose to prominence why they pushed everyone out of the way as that will to power was just sort of central to their sense of identity that's in fact that the whole concept of the will to power from Nietzsche is really a reflection of that of that butch masculine mentality and he was worth their initial meetings held in a restaurant that was notorious for homosexual activity and pederasty the world is not the

52:20

National Socialist Movement met in a gay bar called the Bratwurst Glockel and in Berlin I believe it was and so that was like exclusively known there's actually there was actually there was actually in Munich I think that was it a

52:36

Munich yeah it wasn't it wasn't Munich because that's actually that in the early days it was because there are a lot of things that were happening in Berlin too but the but the in fact the reason

52:45

I know that because I visited the site I actually in a trip when

52:51

I went to get my human rights credentials at Strasbourg during my law school days we were right across the border in Strasbourg and I took a weekend and went to Munich and visited

53:04

Dachau and I also visited and I was looking for the Bratwurst Glockel to see if I could find it it still existed and it was a building that had been demolished in the bombings and had been rebuilt but I actually found a site on the location but it was no longer that facility right behind the cathedral in Munich okay we're gonna we're gonna homosexual bar we're gonna pick up right where you left off there because we have to go to our midway break our midway break is longer than our normal breaks because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

53:35

FM in Lake City Florida requires a 12 -minute break between our two segments but please be patient with us

53:40

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And I also need to announce a couple of special events that are coming up that our listeners need to be aware of before we return to our discussion with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on their book,

01:04:35

The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party. This Friday, December 8th, from 1130 a .m.

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to 1 p .m., CBMC, which stands for Christian Businessmen's Connection, is having a special Christmas event.

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That's this Friday, December 8th, from 1130 a .m. to 1 p .m., the CBMC special Christmas event,

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Joseph, the Quiet Hero of Christmas, featuring keynote speaker Marcus A. McKnight III, attorney at law.

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He's also a former elder at the church where I am currently a member, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, and he is currently a member of the

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West Shore Evangelical Free Church in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. Then coming up in January from the 17th through the 20th, the

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The theme of this January's conference is Knowing God, a Biblical Understanding of Discipleship. Starting on the 17th during the daytime, there will be an exclusively

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This is exclusively in the English language. And the featured speakers this time around at the

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G3 conference include, in addition to Dr. James R. White, Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B.

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That's also the email address where you can send a question for our guests, Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on the theme,

01:09:16

The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party. And we are discussing its relevance in the 21st century, especially in America.

01:09:23

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the

01:09:29

USA. And Scott, you were saying before the break that you had visited Munich to find some landmarks, especially the homosexual tavern where the

01:09:40

Nazi Party began. It must have been an interesting question for the tour guide. Can you bring me to the Nazi Party homosexual bar?

01:09:49

Well, I do my own touring. Well, if you could pick up where you left off there if you had anything, because I do want to eventually soon get to some of our listener questions.

01:10:03

Well, I was able to find the location. I don't think the building was completely destroyed, but it was not the same facility.

01:10:12

And I really wasn't expecting after all those years it would be, but I thought maybe. I did have a chance to go and have a meal at the

01:10:19

Hofbrauhaus, which is one of the places that was famous for Hitler's patronage, and did some other...

01:10:28

And then I found in the subway system of Munich, there's a whole extensive underground level of the city in the center just filled with the kind of perversion that had existed in the

01:10:47

Weimar period, that Germany was notorious for really being like San Francisco on steroids.

01:10:54

Yeah, that's what the cabaret play was all about that, correct? Yes, yes.

01:11:00

Well, you know, it was the direct consequence of the rise of occultism and the rejection of Christianity.

01:11:11

Remember that Germany had been the place where the higher criticism movement had arisen that denied the authority of the

01:11:21

Torah and the New Testament, and in the place of that authority, occultism came flooding in, with it every kind of perversion, both sexual and otherwise.

01:11:34

All right, we do have a listener from San Jose, California. Daniel, who says,

01:11:40

Can you ask how open was homosexuality amongst the Nazis, and was it looked down upon also?

01:11:48

Can you ask how did homosexuality influence the Nazi society as a whole and its influence here in the

01:11:55

United States? Well, that's actually three questions there. But how open?

01:12:01

I mean, we already discussed— First one there, Kevin. Well, I mean, the

01:12:07

Nazi movement was quite well known to be fairly mixed up with homosexuality.

01:12:17

It was, I mean, the first book burning in Berlin in 1930—which year was that,

01:12:25

Scott? 33, yes, 33. The 33 book burning—the first book burning was to destroy 40 ,000 files that Magnus Hirschfeld held in his institute on sexual crimes or convicted sexual criminals in Germany under Section 175 of the

01:12:45

German Penal Code, who were sent to Magnus Hirschfeld's institute for examination and treatment and whatever else went on there.

01:12:51

This was a cover -up. Yeah, it was kind of a cover -up. So basically, the book burning was to get rid of evidence.

01:12:57

It was actually an evidence -destroying event. Evidence that Nazis were homosexuals.

01:13:03

That's right, yeah. Well, you know, I'll just—before we move on, after Kevin finishes his point,

01:13:11

I want to add something. Okay, yeah. And so, you know, it was fairly well known because Rome was so open about it, and they knew that his—I mean, you couldn't really rise up in the

01:13:26

National Socialist Movement, in the brownshirt movement, unless you were homosexual. You were excluded.

01:13:31

I mean, you may have had some lower -ranking people who were maybe less inclined in that manner, but the upper leadership was probably to a man.

01:13:40

I haven't found very many in the upper leadership of the brownshirts who weren't homosexual, who we would consider to be gay.

01:13:48

And like we say, like we explained, they didn't very much like the effeminate homosexuals.

01:13:55

So for political purposes or for purposes of identification, we would make a distinction between, say, homosexuals and militant gays.

01:14:03

Now, one thing I have to ask about that, and I don't want you to get graphic or anything, but one thing that I find bizarre is that if they looked down upon and hated effeminate homosexuals so much, who were their partners?

01:14:15

I mean, were they both butch? Yeah, no, no, no. The militant gay likes young boys.

01:14:23

And the effeminate homosexual really goes after, actually, heterosexual men.

01:14:31

So the young boys that were the victims of these Nazi pederasts, homosexual pederasts, they were not viewed as effeminate themselves, these young boys?

01:14:42

No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, they're just—well, it's like the

01:14:50

Islamic phenomenon, that the— Yeah, especially in Afghanistan. —away from women, right, and that they do not look at prepubescent males in the same way.

01:15:05

I mean, they're a sexual target, and it's considered acceptable. And that's—of course, the stories out of Afghanistan confirm that.

01:15:14

But I want to make one point, back to the last—about the bookburning, and that I just acquired a copy of a fairly recent book titled

01:15:21

Gay Berlin. And I think you recommended it,

01:15:27

Kevin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I picked up a copy of it, and I was just flipping through it, and right there in the center of the book is a picture of the bookburning with a caption that admits what we're talking about.

01:15:41

Wow. They may have read the big swastika and just simply adopted it for themselves, because they used to deny this, but now they're admitting it.

01:15:49

So this is not something—this is not coming from people who are sympathetic to your views against homosexuality.

01:15:55

Oh, no, no, not by any means. And you know, one other thing. If people—if you're at your computer right now, if you're listening, go to your computer and just type in the strange, strange story of the gay fascist.

01:16:07

It's the title of an article by Johann Hari that's published on the

01:16:14

Huffington Post, right? This is a gay journalist on the Huffington Post admitting the rampant homosexuality among the neo -Nazis of the modern era and homosexuality among the

01:16:29

Nazis. And then, of course, it ends, the last paragraph, sort of bashes the big swastika, you know, without a basis, after having laid the groundwork for confirming it.

01:16:44

Well, that's weird. Why would he do that? Why would he bash the big swastika if he was affirming the thesis of your book?

01:16:51

Well, because he's saying it's an anomaly. This is just an anomaly.

01:16:56

And, you know, Lively and Abrams are crazy because they're saying it's not an anomaly. That's really the essence of it.

01:17:03

But it's just—it's just a damage control, because he knows that these admissions that he's making are really going to put him at odds with a lot of people on the left.

01:17:15

So the way he covers for it is he just, you know, he bashes us and says, you know, whenever he gets complaints, he just points to that paragraph.

01:17:23

And, Kevin, I don't know if you've finished your stream of thought, your—

01:17:29

Stream of thinking? Yeah, right. But if you haven't, a part of the— I just—

01:17:35

Okay, go ahead. I just wanted to mention that, just to follow up on what Scott was reporting on the

01:17:41

German Workers' Party. When the Nazis took over the German Workers' Party, they renamed it, and they prefaced it with the

01:17:50

National Socialist German Workers' Party. So the Nazis were socialists.

01:17:56

They were left -wing, not—they used some of the industrialists.

01:18:02

The industrialists served their military and political agendas. But the conservatives were eliminated from the

01:18:07

German military, like Wahnfrich and von Blomberg, who were head of the German military at that time, were not really in favor of Hitler's military and political agenda.

01:18:20

And so they were framed—actually, one of them, Wahnfrich, on false charges of homosexuality, trumped -up charges of homosexuality to have him removed from his position in a scandal, for which he was later exonerated and then sent to the

01:18:32

Russian front, where he perished in World War II. But Wahnfrich was one of the ones that demanded that Hitler do something about Rome in 1934.

01:18:42

That they were going to turn against Hitler if he didn't do something about Rome, because Rome was becoming, you know, a liability to them, as far as, you know, the industrialists.

01:18:56

Now, was it mainly because of Rome's power struggle, or was it because of his homosexuality? Both. Both.

01:19:03

Because Rome wanted to use the German—the officer class that was left over from World War I and the

01:19:10

German army as a training—kind of a training contingent for the brownshirts, and make them subject to the rule—to his rule.

01:19:18

And so the German—the aristocratic officer class wanted to have nothing to do with that, and they demanded that Hitler do—they were either going—it was either

01:19:26

Hitler or Rome. And so Rome had to turn against—or Hitler had to turn against Rome in 1934, just to secure, to consolidate his power, for which

01:19:37

Hindenburg congratulated him. He wrote a letter congratulating him. Hitler acted in the hour of Germany's greatest need, and so forth.

01:19:43

So that's— Well, one of the things— Let me tag -team on that. Sure. Point out that 1934—remember,

01:19:51

Hitler came to power at the end of 1932. And, I mean, he won the election. 1933 was the transitional year, and that nobody expected the

01:20:01

Nazis were going to take power until they did. They only did it by framing the

01:20:08

Communists for the burning of the Reichstag. But once they were in power, then all that they had been planning all these years— you know, from the very beginning,

01:20:18

Hitler would run the government, and Ernst Rome would run the military, right? And so the fact—this was now coming to fruition.

01:20:25

Now, you've got—so you've got the entire conservative military -industrial complex now is freaking out, because Ernst Rome, this notorious pederast from Munich, right?

01:20:36

The orgies in the Brown House now are— the brown fairies are now going to take over the military.

01:20:45

And so they're scrambling for what to do, and they force Hitler to get rid of Ernst Rome.

01:20:52

That was the Night of the Long Knives, correct? Right, that's the Night of the Long Knives. And at the same time,

01:20:58

Hitler now knows that he can no longer— he had been suppressing rumors about his own homosexuality for a long time, kind of deflecting it off on these radicals at the head of the brown shirts, but everyone around him in his inner circle almost was homosexual.

01:21:15

But in order to be able to rule now, instead of just be a party, he had to change his whole public relations strategy, and he had to now come out harshly against homosexuality in the public in order to discourage the rumors about himself.

01:21:34

So one of the things he did on the Night of the Long Knives is he slaughtered every person who had known him when he was a male prostitute on the streets of Munich and Vienna.

01:21:45

That's a documentable thing on the police record that still exists today, doesn't it?

01:21:50

That he was arrested for prostitution. Yes, yes, it was documented. We get secondhand sources,

01:21:57

I think. The original documents were burned at the same time that he was slaughtering all the people that knew it.

01:22:03

All the people with the first -hand knowledge about Hitler's perversions were all killed. There were as many as 2 ,000 people killed on the

01:22:10

Night of the Long Knives. Actually, in addition to that, the officers who were involved in the torching of the

01:22:17

Reichstag on June 30th, July 1st, 1934, were eliminated in the— or, yeah, 34.

01:22:23

They were—or, no, actually, the torching of the Reichstag in 1933 were eliminated in the blood purge of 1934.

01:22:31

Because they didn't want any wagging tongues. They didn't want anybody talking about who torched the Reichstag.

01:22:36

They wanted to let it lie as a communist act and cover that all up. So the

01:22:43

Nazis were very good at covering things up, and that's why they didn't want to get out. So when we hear constantly the drumbeat from the liberal media about homosexuals being persecuted by the

01:22:53

Nazis with the same fervency as they persecuted the Jews at times, it is alleged, or it is insinuated at least, this is just because of a cover -up that was going on, and it was nowhere—anywhere remotely— close to the kind of persecutions that Jews and gypsies and others received.

01:23:13

Exactly, but the effeminate homosexuals were, many of them, a small number, relatively speaking.

01:23:19

James Steakley identifies the numbers in his book on the Holocaust and persecution of the

01:23:25

Jews and so forth, but he—and he was a homosexual historian, too, and he identified some 5 ,000 or 6 ,000 homosexuals that were— some of them were sex -tortured to death, and the

01:23:37

Nazis were fairly cruel with the effeminate side of the homosexual world.

01:23:42

It's kind of a riddle, you know. To disentangle all this stuff is really quite a riddle.

01:23:47

It's kind of like it takes a forensic investigation to sort of put things where they belong, like so that you don't confuse one side with the other, and you have to study the chronology, and like Scott was just pointing out, there was a change in Hitler's strategy and the way that he wanted to publicly portray himself to the

01:24:04

German public and so forth, and Hindenburg, of course, congratulated him, like I mentioned, and so it was like it was a transitional process up to the point when

01:24:12

Hitler achieved absolute power, and one of the means by which he did that, of course, was the burning of the

01:24:19

Reichstag in 1933, which was an engineering of pretext for social and political action, right?

01:24:26

Social, political, and military action. So that's called—I call that the Reichstag pretext, you know.

01:24:31

We've seen many of these types of instances. False flag, yeah. Yeah, false flag. Yeah, false flag. It was basically the classic false flag was the

01:24:39

Reichstag, the torching of the Reichstag in 19— and Carol quickly goes into detail, and anybody that wants to have an accounting of what really went on—

01:24:48

In tragedy and hope. —in Germany. Yeah, in tragedy and hope. It's an excellent account of what really occurred. But there's been an extreme and monumental effort to cover up and pervert and invert, and actually, you know,

01:25:01

Diener de Souza does an excellent job of describing that inversion of roles and who's a

01:25:06

Nazi and so forth, and who has the— because to be a Nazi is a psychological profile.

01:25:12

It has nothing to do with race whatsoever. It's a psychological profile, and it has to do with character and morality, and there's a spirit about it, too.

01:25:20

And the one other thing— It's an ideology, you know. It's a homoerotic ideology.

01:25:27

Yeah, it's a militaristic ideology, and all through history, like whether it's the Zambia or Papua New Guinea or the

01:25:33

Spartans or whether there's a strong homoerotic bond that binds these people together, and it's like a homoerotic brotherhood.

01:25:40

And juxtaposed with the homoerotic brotherhood throughout history has been the fraternal brotherhood that, you know, protects the family and the community and so forth.

01:25:49

So it's more of a fraternal, more of a nurturing kind of brotherhood that is strongly male and masculine, but in a benevolent and fraternal way.

01:25:59

And it's far different than the homoerotic, which is you're trying to develop the ultimate warrior or the ubermensch kind of character.

01:26:08

One thing that I want to ask you, Kevin, before we run out of time later and I forget to ask, because I think this is a very vital aspect of our discussion.

01:26:19

I think one of the reasons that this is very important, this discussion, one of the many reasons, is that the victimhood of the

01:26:30

Jews and the Gypsies and others during the Holocaust, where millions of them were tortured and exterminated, the victimhood of the

01:26:42

Jews is being diluted by homosexual activists who are jumping on that bandwagon of demanding to be viewed as a persecuted people, if you will.

01:26:56

And I want to know from you as an Orthodox Jew, how this offends you, because I think this is one of the main reasons we should talk about things like this.

01:27:07

Well, you know, the Holocaust is one of the most powerful and dramatic victim metaphors available for social or political purposes in the last century.

01:27:18

And so it's exploited not only by, you know, the homosexual movement, but by other groups, too.

01:27:24

It's like a holocaust. They use the term holocaust to refer to, you know, if there's a holocaust of this or that or the other thing.

01:27:31

But it's a victim metaphor. And of course, the victim is designed, you know, if you can identify as a victim and there's this victim mentality, you know, the sense of entitlement and victimhood and which the process goes like this.

01:27:44

I'm a victim, so I get to be vindictive and I don't have to really do anything about why I'm doing what

01:27:49

I'm doing. I just, you know, I demand, I'm entitled to compensation. I'm entitled.

01:27:55

So victim politics is kind of rampant in American culture, in North America, in the Western world today.

01:28:01

And that's really caused a lot of schisms in our culture and our society. But the exploitation of the holocaust was a very cynical move because the idea is to solicit the sanction and the compassion of a people who are predisposed to have sympathy for the victim.

01:28:24

And so it's a very kind of predatory type of practice and mentality to exploit the victimhood.

01:28:32

And many of these people that exploit this victim metaphor had nothing to do with the holocaust.

01:28:38

I mean, they weren't victims of the holocaust. They're not victims themselves, but they exploit the holocaust for political currency.

01:28:44

And so the holocaust is being unjustly exploited for political currency and to gain political and social concessions.

01:28:53

And that, it's a tremendous insult to those who were actually victimized.

01:28:59

And really true victims, people who suffer victimhood in life, usually they just move on and get on with their life and sort of learn from what happened.

01:29:09

And often they're too embarrassed to admit they were victims. But the false victim always announces and parades around about his victimhood and makes a big deal out of it.

01:29:19

So I think victim politics are some of the most, that's one of the most destructive influences in American society today.

01:29:27

And I see that as a real downside of how the holocaust has been exploited. Now, wasn't there a backlash or an outcry from people who,

01:29:40

Jews were actually victims of the holocaust when they had heard that one of the holocaust museums included a wing dedicated to homosexual victims, and they were upset because they knew that the homosexuals were actually torturing them and making life even more miserable in the camps for them.

01:30:00

Isn't that something that occurred? Well, this is the double -edged sword. I mean, on one hand, there's the victim.

01:30:06

And often what happens to the victim is they move on to become a victimizer or they try to, they seek healing for their victimization when they were younger.

01:30:17

Like Milo, he understands that he was victimized, sexually molested. And so he's gone on to try and make sense of his life.

01:30:23

That's the person that we see in the media who's a very effeminate libertarian.

01:30:28

He calls himself a libertarian. Right. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. But you know, one thing about Milo, he's a pretty honest guy.

01:30:36

And he has this, he's more from the effeminate side of the homosexual world.

01:30:43

And he has been sexually molested. And a lot of this happens when people are younger. This is how a lot of people are inducted into the homosexual world.

01:30:51

Yeah, this is the other side of pederasty. Yeah, yeah. These are pederasts that will frequently grow up to be pederasts themselves.

01:31:01

That's right. So the victim becomes the victimizer that way. And they just think that it's just part of the, you know, part, you know.

01:31:09

Wasn't there a protest, though, by Jewish victims of the Holocaust, Holocaust survivors at one point? I don't know if it was in Israel or somewhere.

01:31:16

I might be thinking of, yeah, there was a, I remember that there was a gay pride parade, one of the early gay pride parades in Israel, where there was a man who was standing on the side of the parade, screaming, my family was killed, you know, by you people.

01:31:33

And that, Well, there's no doubt, there's no, yeah, there's no doubt that if it hadn't have been for the militant gays in Germany, that the

01:31:42

Nazi party probably never would have occurred. It just wouldn't have happened. We're going to our final break right now.

01:31:48

If anybody wants to join us on the air, do so quickly at chrisarnsen at gmail .com. We have a few of you still waiting to get on with your questions, and we'll get to as many of you as possible, as long as time permits, or as many as time permits.

01:32:01

Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on the Pink Swastika.

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01:33:43

This is Chris Sarnes, and this is our final 25 minutes or so of our interview with Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams on their book,

01:33:51

The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality in the Nazi Party, now entering into its fifth edition due to a lot of new discoveries and documentable evidence to prove the point of their thesis.

01:34:05

And if you'd like to join us, now's the time to do it. ChrisArnesInAtGmail .com. And one of the things that we didn't get to that Daniel in San Jose, California, brings up is he says, uh, how, uh, well, first of all, when the

01:34:20

Nazi Party became this, this massive machine, uh, when there were thousands and thousands of people involved in this party, and they were, uh, on the brink of conquering the world, how, uh, heavily influenced was this party at that point by, uh, actual people practicing homosexuality and how well known was it among the party itself when it became this massive thing?

01:34:49

ChrisWell, let me, let me, uh, jump in on this one because this is the, the, the, the, the greater the number of people in the

01:34:56

Nazi Party and in the brown shirts, of course, the more the homosexuality, uh, was diluted.

01:35:01

And it was, but, but there was always in the upper echelons anyways in the leadership. But what's really most important to remember is that that really doesn't matter as much at this point in history because it was, this was a, a movement put on a trajectory because of its initial, uh, ideology.

01:35:20

This was the, this was the ideology of the, of the, of the butch homosexuals who believe that every nation state in the history of the world had been created by their own kind.

01:35:33

And that, uh, and this, and that, that super macho, hierarchical, uh, uh, militaristic, you know, uh, very aggressive macho male culture, uh, that, that continued to, to, to define

01:35:50

Nazism and then the whole nation all the way through. So it really didn't matter in the later days how many of the, how many, what percentage of the leaders were homosexual at that point, because it was a machine that had, it was a robot, uh, a juggernaut that had already been built and was steamrolling over the cultures of the world.

01:36:12

And the other thing that, uh, Daniel asks about is the influence of homosexual

01:36:18

Nazism here in America. I happen to know that while reading the book, the classic work on George Lincoln Rockwell called

01:36:26

Hate, George Lincoln Rockwell and the American Nazi Party, uh, that Rockwell was continually embarrassed by homosexual activity going on amongst his small band of nut jobs.

01:36:39

And, uh, in fact, so he said, yeah, well, and you go on YouTube and you see him being interviewed, uh, and he, the interviewer is addressing that very thing about the rumors, the rampant rumors that the

01:36:54

American Nazi Party was a band of homosexuals. Uh, and then we have, uh,

01:37:00

Frank Collins, who picked up the mantle after the assassination of, of, uh,

01:37:07

George Lincoln Rockwell years later when, uh, Frank Collins, uh, began the, uh, the

01:37:13

National Socialist Party here in America or relaunched it. Uh, he was arrested for homosexual pederasty, right?

01:37:20

Yeah, well, he was the, he's notorious for 1977 leading the Nazi march on Skokie.

01:37:26

Right. Which actually wasn't in Skokie at that point. There is, they, they, uh, they sort of put him in a, in a box so that, uh, the only thing he could actually do is sort of get a bunch of his guys in the back of a truck and drive, drove through Chicago.

01:37:40

And they picked Skokie because of the high population of Holocaust survivors, correct? Right, right. And this guy, he was a, he was the classic homosexual

01:37:49

Nazi. And then a couple of years after this incident, he's arrested for having sex with teenage boys, went to prison, and then he got out.

01:37:57

In fact, Kevin sent me a, a sort of an update on a profile. And he'd gone into, what did he go into Kevin?

01:38:04

He called or something? I went in, went into authoring books about, uh, Atlantis and so forth.

01:38:10

Yeah, he changed his name. And he was not open though, uh, about his homosexuality,

01:38:15

I don't think, correct? No, it wasn't until he was arrested for pederasty that, uh, that it came out.

01:38:22

And you, you guys, The other figure, Go ahead, go ahead. The other figure in American history that is very important, uh,

01:38:30

Dalton mentioned is Henry Gerber. Uh, Henry Gerber was a, an American army serviceman that served in Germany, post -World

01:38:37

War I Germany, as part of the occupation forces in Germany. And, uh, he, uh, sought out and joined the, uh,

01:38:44

Bund für Menschenrechte, which was the Nazi arm of the homosexual movement in Germany. And, uh, and brought back that movement to Ger, to, to Chicago in 1925, 26.

01:38:56

And, uh, set up the first chapter of the Bund für Menschenrechte in America. So that was the original seed of the

01:39:03

Nazi movement in so far as the psychosexual roots of Nazi fascism is concerned. Yeah.

01:39:09

And in fact, the guy that was the leader of the, go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, I just wanted that the, you're missing when you're, if you don't know

01:39:17

German, you don't know the significance of the, of the title. This is the German society for human rights, right?

01:39:23

So just, just think about that for a second, right? Whole concept of homosexuality as a human right begins with the

01:39:30

Nazis. Right. And, uh, one of the things that, I learned from your book,

01:39:37

The Pink Swastika, is that, uh, the leader, one of the leaders of the act up movement that used to vandalize churches and do all kinds of grotesque things during worship services, perhaps predominantly in Roman Catholic churches, that person later admit that he was influenced heavily by Mein Kampf, correct?

01:39:57

Well, yes, of course. And, and that the, the, the killers of, uh, of, um, uh,

01:40:03

Columbine, I believe, same thing. Uh, the, uh, and also they, they had been,

01:40:08

I remember reading one of the first stories that came out about Klebold and the other guy was that they had been reading

01:40:13

Thus Spoke Zarathustra, which was Nietzsche's book. And we haven't talked much about Nietzsche, but even, and even though Nietzsche himself was anti -fascist personally, he, he created the, the, uh, the philosophy that empowered them.

01:40:29

And then, of course, his sister, Elizabeth, after Nietzsche died from, uh, from syphilis that he acquired at a homosexual brothel in Italy, uh,

01:40:38

Elizabeth is the one who melded, uh, Nietzschean fascism with Nazism, uh, and really provided the philosophical, uh, you know, the pillars of, of the, of, uh, philosophical genius that everybody, at least what everyone thought was genius was really insanity, uh, that, uh, that the

01:40:58

Nazis were, became famous for. In fact, you guys, uh, wrote about in your book, I don't remember the person's name, uh, it wasn't in America, it was in, uh,

01:41:06

England in the UK that the, uh, I believe the founder or one of the founders of the skinhead movement, uh, which, who was a brutal, violent individual actually died of AIDS and he was, uh, homosexual involved in, in homosexual pornography.

01:41:21

Am I right? He was in the, in the - The National Front. I forget the guy's name myself. It was the

01:41:26

National Front, which still exists today. Um, and, uh, but same thing, we, even though we're somewhat more sympathetic to the, uh, uh, to the, uh, the

01:41:38

French, uh, party that's risen up, uh, Marine, oh,

01:41:44

I forget her name, Le Pen, Le Pen. Uh, that, uh, when Le Pen took over for her father and was rising up, she's sort of getting a pass from the conservatives in the

01:41:53

US, but her second in command is a homosexual. And that, you know, this is, this, this, uh, sort of militaristic nationalism just attracts male homosexuals like moths to, moths to a flame.

01:42:07

And, uh, so they're, they're salted all through the organizations and are, often, are the leaders themselves and really come to define, uh, the sort of identity that everyone's pursuing.

01:42:19

What were the, what are the, the neo, what are the, the neo, the National Front people doing going around in their big, uh, boots and, you know, acting like bullies on the street?

01:42:27

It's straight out of the, of the, the early brownshirt days. Same, same mentality.

01:42:34

And, uh, by the way, thank you, Daniel, uh, Daniel from San Jose, California, for your question. In fact, you have won, uh, because of your contribution to our show today, you have won a copy of the fourth edition of the

01:42:46

Pink Swastika. And, uh, we thank you for being a part of our program today.

01:42:51

Keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in San Jose, California and beyond. We have a listener in Slovenia, Joe in Slovenia, who says, dear brother,

01:43:02

Chris, this topic is so unsettling. Yet I'm again, thankful to you for having the courage to address the tough topics.

01:43:10

I've always been puzzled by the fact that Adolf Hitler never married until just hours before his death and is not known to have had heterosexual relations with women.

01:43:21

It seems really strange to me that Eva Brown was his companion, who apparently was frustrated by the arrangement.

01:43:27

Since she tried to commit suicide twice, was she just a fixture to create the illusion that Hitler was heterosexual?

01:43:35

Did Hitler not marry and conduct a normal heterosexual life with her? Because he was in fact a sodomite.

01:43:41

And it's interesting that in the original editions of the Pink Swastika, you guys both did not believe, or at least you didn't have documented evidence that Hitler was himself a homosexual, but you later became convinced of it.

01:43:56

If you could explain that. Well, we did make reference to Hitler's homosexuality in Vienna during the early days that he's registered in the

01:44:07

Viennese police records as being a homosexual prostitute. So I don't think that we, and basically if the people that you surround yourself with are any measure of your own character, then certainly he surrounded himself with well -known homosexuals during both the

01:44:24

Weimar and the period of his rise to power. After Weimar.

01:44:30

So, no, I think we've mentioned it, but there was never, I mean, of course, there was never documented evidence to any great extent, because this, as Scott has pointed out, this is something that Hitler wanted to conceal and cover up.

01:44:45

There has been other books written, like the Hidden Hitler by Mochton, I believe it is.

01:44:51

Yeah, Lothar Mochton. Yes, and he wrote a book where he brings forth the thesis that Hitler did have homosexual or homoerotic proclivities.

01:44:59

But I don't think that there's any doubt. It doesn't, you know, he had relations with half a dozen or so women.

01:45:06

Three of them did commit suicide, I understand. One of them was his niece, right? Yeah, yeah.

01:45:11

His niece was Geli, yeah. Actually, she may have been, you know, because she was being loose, loose -lipped about Hitler's proclivities.

01:45:20

I think she was probably, you know, something was taken.

01:45:25

She was exposing the fact that he was a corpophile. Correct? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, well, he had,

01:45:31

Uncle Adolf had strange habits otherwise, and that wasn't really acceptable to people like Goering.

01:45:38

She was brought in the line, though, and then she was later married off to Baldur von Schurach, the head of the Hitler Youth, when he needed cover.

01:45:45

See, what Eva Braun was, and what Geli was, was a beard.

01:45:51

It's called a beard. It's essentially a woman who will agree to marry a man, a homosexual, in order to give him political cover.

01:46:03

And frankly, there are allegations about lots of people in that situation. You know, presently,

01:46:09

I'm not going to get myself sued by identifying the political figure that I've heard. I heard a personal story.

01:46:16

It was a secondhand story, actually, that one of the governors of Massachusetts, I mean, not

01:46:23

Massachusetts, of another state, I won't mention, that he approached a woman and asked her to marry him for that purpose, and she turned him down, and a close friend of hers is the person who told me that.

01:46:37

And I believe it, just from this particular individual. But that's what Eva Braun was. That's what

01:46:42

Geli was. And it's not all that uncommon. And the...

01:46:51

Well, I want to make sure that we get this in before we go off the air because we're running out of time.

01:46:57

But without just speculation, without just having a guttural feeling about it, who can you confirm in Nazi leadership from documented evidence was a homosexual?

01:47:18

Well, there's quite a few. I mean, Lothar Machten's book is quite powerful. This is...

01:47:24

Lothar Machten is a German history professor at Bremen University, or in Bremen.

01:47:31

And he doesn't go into any of the things that we do with the pink swastika. His is just really exclusively to the question, was

01:47:40

Adolf Hitler a homosexual? But in doing that analysis, he's citing many primary sources and he names names all the part.

01:47:51

So all... He listed, for example... Oh, I can see the guy's face in my head.

01:48:00

I can't remember his name. The guy that was assassinated, the... Was it... No, no, this is a more obscure...

01:48:06

Well, he was a very high -ranking Nazi leader. But I'll list off some of them here.

01:48:13

Julius Streicher, who's not known to Americans very well, but he was Hitler's very close friend.

01:48:19

He was a pornographer and an ally. One of the few people Hitler... You actually have a picture of Hitler actually standing in a crowd, listening to his speech by this guy.

01:48:31

You know, this is how much he sort of revered his buddy. And then we...

01:48:38

Kevin mentioned Edmund Heinz, Wolf von Helldorf, and then the people directly around Hitler.

01:48:47

William Funk, his financial advisor, who became the

01:48:52

Reich Minister of Economics, was a homosexual. Hans Frank, Hitler's lawyer, became the gallaiter of one of the big districts, was a homosexual.

01:49:05

The... Erich Goering was a transvestite. Rudolf Hess was a homosexual.

01:49:13

Maurice... His last name was... It was Hitler's chauffeur. Emil Maurice was his last name,

01:49:19

Maurice. Emil Maurice was a homosexual. And the list just goes on and on and on.

01:49:26

And the more time that we've spent... We've continued our research, and we continue to find more evidence and more people.

01:49:35

You wouldn't think that after 400 pages of documentation on a fairly obscure topic that there would be anything left.

01:49:41

But... Yes, in fact, there was a... There was a secular documentary on the Nuremberg Trials.

01:49:48

And this was a secular documentary, and it affirmed that Herman Goering, when he was arrested by the

01:49:55

American military, he had on his possession women's makeup. They actually brought that up.

01:50:01

They made a point of bringing that up in the documentary. Tell us about these new discoveries that are not included in the fourth edition of the

01:50:09

Pink Swastika. Or some of them, anyway. Well, it's hard to do that.

01:50:15

The way, the style of doing the book is to weave new source material into the existing text.

01:50:24

So it basically just... It's expanding. And for example, the fifth edition we're publishing as a series of short books based on the original chapters that were in the fourth edition.

01:50:35

And so it's material that just simply highlights or bolsters or extends a particular point, identifies a particular person.

01:50:46

And I couldn't rattle off a list like I did the fourth edition material.

01:50:53

I'm not as... It is not on the tip of my tongue like that is after having done a thousand speeches on the topic.

01:51:00

But you take my word, there is a... We have a three -foot stack of additional material.

01:51:07

And most of it, we still haven't even gotten to the point of including. Just with this type of writing and research -based writing is very time -intensive.

01:51:20

And the reason why it's taken so long to do the fifth edition. Well, I'd like you...

01:51:25

So I think Scott would agree it's been a very tough topic too. It's not an easy topic to navigate or to contend with.

01:51:35

I mean, it is a controversial topic. And really, we were sort of going against the flow and the environmental expectations, the popular opinion on the topics and so forth.

01:51:45

So it was quite an endeavor to put this book together in the first place.

01:51:53

Just from an emotional and intellectual perspective, it's quite a, you know, you really have to sort of temper yourself to the material that you're dealing with.

01:52:01

Well, I'd like you each... I'd like you each to make sure that you let our listeners know why is this relevant in the 21st century, especially in America?

01:52:11

Because this other than the fact that this is maybe fascinating for those who love war history and all that kind of thing, they might find this oddity of history to be fascinating.

01:52:25

But other than that, what practical input does this have to our current generation here in the 20th century?

01:52:33

This is not an oddity of history. That's the point. There's nothing new under the sun.

01:52:39

And that what happened in Germany is just a chapter of a very long book that spans millennia.

01:52:47

I guess what I meant by that was odd behavior, odd behavior by a global movement that nearly conquered the world.

01:52:54

That's really what I meant. Well, history is prologue. History is prologue.

01:53:00

You know, if you can't learn from history, if you have good information, you have an accurate account of history and so forth, then there are lessons that can be derived therefrom.

01:53:10

But if history is being distorted and misrepresented, then the lessons that you'll come away with will only make the problem worse or make the situation worse.

01:53:19

So we're trying to pick up some true lessons from history. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes of the past.

01:53:28

And so we're trying to get one up on previous mistakes, so to speak.

01:53:34

And protect the next generation by educating. And one other point to that is that as a

01:53:43

Christian, and I think most of the listeners are Christians, one of the things I like to point out in my talks on this is that the

01:53:50

Pink Swastika is really documentary evidence in support of Romans chapter one.

01:53:56

What the apostle Paul describes as the culture of the day in Romans, which

01:54:03

I believe he wrote in Corinth, which was a debauched city, is it points out this is a timeless phenomenon.

01:54:13

And that you can look all the way ahead to Germany in the 20th century, and you can see the exact same culture that existed in Corinth at the time that Paul wrote that letter to the

01:54:29

Romans. And so all through history, there's this poison stream.

01:54:35

That's a term coined by one of our primary sources, a

01:54:40

German Jew named Samuel Ygra, who wrote Germany's National Vice, and that which would have been world famous if he hadn't published it so late.

01:54:51

It was only published just shortly after the end of World War II, when everybody was wanting to breathe a big sigh of relief and then move on.

01:55:02

His book comes out documenting so much of what, you know, we borrowed so much from his work that he coined the phrase a poison stream, and then he cites different incidents over the course of history that are, you know, that are just like ripples on the pond of which the

01:55:21

Nazi period is just one ripple. Chris, there's a quote on the back of our book by Samuel Ygra, I think that will respond to one of your earlier questions.

01:55:31

And Samuel Ygra writes, for the purposes of the present investigations,

01:55:37

Hitler is important for what he has represented when he embarked the German people on the policy that brought about the world catastrophe.

01:55:46

He was the central figure around which a number of men grouped themselves from the 1920s onwards, in a movement to gain supreme control of the

01:55:55

German people. As the movement developed, they were aided and abetted and supported financially as well as politically by the industrial capitalists of the

01:56:04

Rhineland. But the initiative did not come from the latter. It came from Hitler as the contradictory of a band of evil men who were united together by a common vice.

01:56:16

Wow. And of course, homosexuality is that common vice. Well, I'd like you to now in two minutes, summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today and involving this program, and you could each chime in if you'd like, and I'll let you know when we're running out of time.

01:56:34

Okay, you go first, Scott. Well, I just would repeat that there's nothing new under the sun, that what happened in Germany was not an anomaly, that the phenomenon of homosexuality, if you look at what's happened in the

01:56:51

United States over the course of these several decades, it can only be described as gay supremacy, that Judeo -Christian ideology and morality has been crushed under the jackboots of a fascist movement that has attained almost exclusive cultural authority, and that people who continue to hold a

01:57:16

Judeo -Christian worldview are being pushed aside and punished just for believing that homosexuality is morally wrong, like this man who's at the

01:57:27

Supreme Court now trying to preserve his right just simply not to have to promote homosexuality in the message that he puts on a cake.

01:57:39

This is a direct parallel with what happened in Germany without the guns.

01:57:46

They've done it this time without having to fire a shot. And, Kevin? Anyway, this is my author's dedication, which is not really included in the book, but I'm praying for an

01:57:58

American Renaissance and a return to first principles. And to that point,

01:58:04

I ask that may America and her people bless and affirm God and the moral and ethical covenant established between him and mankind through Israel over 3 ,400 years ago at Mount Sinai.

01:58:15

It is God's express wish that all men guard their personal dignity and the dignity of their fellow man. This is achieved through the founding of honest ways and measures and a moral and healthy sexual constitution, the two pillars of any human civilization.

01:58:29

It is therefore that our book, The Pink Swastika, is firstly dedicated to the honor of God, creator of heaven and earth, and giver of all life.

01:58:36

Secondly, and furthermore, this book is dedicated to the dignity of man into which our creator breathes a living soul or a spirit that speaks, so that no man should ever by his actions bring shame to either

01:58:48

God himself or his brother, that in this regard, we are truly our brother's keepers.

01:58:54

So whereas we entreat God to bless America in all her endeavors, we must understand this is a reciprocal relationship.

01:59:00

God blesses those who bless and affirm him in his ways. It is my passionate desire and wish that America regains her spiritual vision and sense of true cause.

01:59:11

It is in this way only that God's countenance and life -giving sustenance will once again grace

01:59:17

America's shores and reveal itself upon the faces of her people. That was very powerful.

01:59:24

And I want our listeners to know that the two websites that you can go to for more details are

01:59:29

ScottLively .net, ScottLively .net, and also DefendTheFamily .com, DefendTheFamily .com.

01:59:35

Thank you so much for being on our program today, both of you. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.