WWUTT 795 Q&A Baptism Before Christ, Being Narrow Minded, and Flat Earth Cosmology?

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What was the reason for baptism before Christ instituted baptism as a sacrament?

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Is it offensive to be called narrow -minded? And yeah, we're going to be talking about the shape of the earth again when we understand the text.

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This is When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible teaching podcast in the Word of God, so that we may rejoice in the things freely given to us by God.

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Visit our website at www .wtt .com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

00:38

Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So I received an email from somebody that included a new alarm tone.

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Like I can download it on my phone, and it can be my alarm when I wake up in the morning.

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Are you ready for this? I'm not sure. Okay, so this now, when

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I wake up next to you, is what you're going to be hearing when my alarm goes off.

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Okay. All right, here we go. Wake up! Wake up! Wake up!

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Wake up! So thoughts? You better wake up first. Well, yeah, that's the idea.

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Yeah, I meant before me. I know. That's what I'm saying. So my alarm's going to go off before you wake up, so you can wake up to that alarm tone as well.

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But wait. Wait a second. There's more. Oh. The Lord told me to tell you, wake up and wake up!

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I can tell you the first thing I'd be thinking about when I wake up is getting a cough drop. Never mind.

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What were you thinking? What were you going to say? You're going to have to get up in another part of the house?

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That's not happening. You know who that was, right? Yes. Yes, I do. I'll tell you, that's all that's good for is an alarm tone, because it's sure not good for a church service.

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Oh, definitely not. That is craziness. Well, this is when we understand the text.

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Yes. And when we understand that text. And yeah, being Friday, we take questions from listeners.

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So that was a good start right there, because that came from one of the listeners. They sent me that video. That was very kind of them.

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So that I could be benefited by that alarm tone. I wonder if they're actually using it. I think my chair's getting creakier.

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I know, it's so bad. Except when you want it to creak, it doesn't creak.

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Yeah, now when I was just doing it right there, I think I fixed it. You might have. Yay. I was waiting for something else.

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I was waiting for something else from you, too. Well, boy, you can tell we've been doing this for a while.

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Yeah. Very organized. How about that? When we understand the text at gmail .com is the address.

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And I've got several emails I'm going to be getting to today. If I've got time, when we get to the end of this,

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I'll read some of the comments that we've been getting because of the Flat Earth video that I did just a couple of days ago.

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If we've got time. I'm not going to respond to any emails. I haven't. I've received emails from folks very angry that I would say what

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I said about Flat Earth cosmology. But I don't waste my time. It's casting pearls before swine.

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Right. Matthew 7, 6, which Jesus said to avoid. I'm not going to convince you. I've got things to do.

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And arguing with Flat Earth cosmology is just simply not going to be one of them. There's a reason why I concluded that video with the two passages out of First Timothy and Second Timothy, where Paul said to avoid irreverent, silly myths and don't quarrel about these things that are insignificant to the gospel and salvation that we have in Christ.

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For these kinds of quarrels will only lead to division. We'll address some of that a little bit more at the end.

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This first email comes from Bill, and he says, Hello, I've recently began a following.

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Recently began? Recently begun? See, I'm confused on that, too. You're the English teacher.

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What would that be? I'm too tired. Sorry. Keep going. I recently beginneth following the what work after discovering it through wretched radio.

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I have a small ministry I'm still establishing, but I would like to ask your permission to share your content on my website, on the

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Facebook page, and on my podcast. Of course, I do not plan on editing any of it and will be giving you full credit.

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Any questions about this, please let me know. So do you have an answer for Bill? Of course. Yes. Please do.

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Yep. Take our stuff and use it. Yes. Spread it. That's what it's out there for. So we appreciate you using it.

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Yeah. As long as you don't alter it in any way, that's fine. But thank you, Bill. I appreciate that it has been meaningful to you and that you would find it useful through your ministry.

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Yes. Your online ministry that you're doing as well. Next question comes from Jean in Augusta, Georgia. Hello, Gabe and Becky.

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Hello. And she spelled your name right. Woo -hoo. First of all, thank you for all the work you do on the podcast.

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I have learned so much from your teaching and it has played a very positive role in my spiritual health.

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I have a question about baptism after listening to Tuesday's podcast. So on Tuesday, I was still in John 1 and was talking about John the

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Baptist and his witness and testimony of Jesus Christ as being the Son of God, the

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Lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world. I have a question about baptism.

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What was the purpose and meaning behind baptism before Christianity? So this would basically be

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John's baptism. Why would people be baptized and what was the sacrament intended to communicate to the recipient?

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Well, for the priest who was going into the tabernacle, he was supposed to be cleansed from head to toe and this was essentially baptism.

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Now it wasn't like a baptism of immersion in the sense that he was being dipped backwards into water and then coming back up.

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It wasn't that kind of baptism. But he was being washed from head to toe.

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He would stand in a basin and then somebody would come with other basins and dump water on him so that he would be washed before going into the

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Holy of Holies, into the presence of God. Right. Now on Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement, he would do this three times.

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He would be washed, he would go into the Holy of Holies and he would sacrifice for himself.

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Then he would come out, he would take off all the garments and he would be washed again.

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And then he would go in and he would sacrifice for all of the priests and then he would come out and do that process again with all of his clothes being taken off, being washed, new garments being put on him and then he would go in and sacrifice for all of the people.

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Right. So this is what was done on Yom Kippur and it was this ceremonial cleansing that he would have to do before going in and sacrificing again.

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He's taking the sacrifice and he's sprinkling the blood over the Ark of the Covenant. And on the

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Day of Atonement, this is done for the entire nation of Israel and it was a public event.

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All of Israel showed up for the Day of Atonement and in the temple there was a kind of a veil that you could see through, but it was a veil that separated the

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Holy of Holies from everyone else. Okay. And it was so the people of Israel could watch this, so they would know it was being done right and their sins were being atoned for and forgiven by this sacrifice that was being offered up by the high priest on behalf of the people.

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So when John the Baptist was baptizing the people, this was being done in preparation for Christ who was going to come.

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And because the king was coming, they needed to be cleansed and washed and prepared for Jesus who was going to come and deliver the

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Word of God. God had not spoken to the people through a prophet or otherwise in hundreds of years.

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And now here Jesus was coming to speak to the people the Word of God again, but it was going to be

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God himself in the flesh. So in order to come into the presence of God, just like the priest had to do before he went into the

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Holy of Holies, John the Baptist came with a baptism for the repentance of sins and the people were being baptized so that they would be forgiven their sins and be, you know, basically ceremonially washed to be in the presence of Christ who was coming to speak the

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Word of God to the people and was coming to be that sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

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Right. So not just that he was God in human flesh speaking the Word of God to the people again, but that he was even coming to be that sacrifice just as the high priest had to take the sacrifice into the

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Holy of Holies. Now Jesus' baptism itself was symbolic in a different sense.

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And that actually has to do with, oh, I didn't write the question down. Somebody had asked me this question.

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Here it is. I did get this. No, I didn't. All right.

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So I forgot to write it down. Somebody emailed this question to me and I meant to grab it and put it in my list here, but I didn't.

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So the next question is, why did Jesus get baptized? Right. What was the point of Jesus' baptism if the people were being baptized for the forgiveness of sins?

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Because that's what it said John's baptism was. It was for the forgiveness of sins. So what reason did Jesus have to be baptized if he wasn't sinful?

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So let's go to the baptism that we have given to us by Matthew, Matthew chapter three.

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And I didn't have my Bible open in advance here. This that I'm opening, I've actually never used this

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Bible on the podcast. This is the MacArthur study Bible, but I've used the

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ESV study Bible. I've used the ESV archeology

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Bible. Is that what it's called? I think so. The one that I have upstairs. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. I've used that one.

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I've used my sermon Bible. I've never used the MacArthur study Bible though. It was the first time

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I've used it because it was handy. I reached over and grabbed it. I could be wrong. I probably have used this before.

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Okay. So, and his name is going to come up again in the podcast, by the way, has to do with one of the questions that I'm responding to.

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Okay. So then Matthew chapter three, verse 11, this is John the

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Baptist responding to his critics and he says, I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals

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I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.

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And then in verse 13, then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John to be baptized by him.

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John would have prevented him saying, I need to be baptized by you. And do you come to me?

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And this was, I think this was Tuesday that I was addressing this on the podcast, but Jesus answered him, let it be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.

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What does this mean? What does it mean that Jesus needed to be baptized? And he said, this is to fulfill all, all righteousness.

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Then John consented as if he understood what it was that Jesus was saying. And when Jesus was baptized immediately, he went up from the water and behold, the heavens were open to him.

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And he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him. And behold, a voice from heaven said, this is my beloved son with whom

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I am well -pleased. And we have that testimony from John also in John chapter one, testifying that according to this witness,

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Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah, the lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world.

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So if Jesus was without sin and John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, why is it that Jesus needed to be baptized?

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Well, the reason is twofold. Number one, because he is our great high priest, as it says in the book of Hebrews, the one who enters into God's presence on our behalf as that sacrifice, who has cleansed us from all unrighteousness and made us acceptable unto

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God. So just as the high priest needed to be washed before he went into God's presence on the day of atonement, so Christ has done that for us.

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So the baptism was symbolic in that sense, to signify that he is our great high priest and he's the final high priest.

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That's the first reason. The second reason is because also in Hebrews 2, 17, it says, therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

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We have been commanded to be baptized. Right. And so for Jesus to be like us in every respect so that he might be this merciful and faithful high priest on our behalf, then he also had to obey everything that we have to obey.

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Living his life in that holy way that we are supposed to live and could not live so that he would be made into that acceptable sacrifice unto the

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Lord. And so in this way, he had to be baptized, just as we have to be baptized and doing this to fulfill all righteousness, to show that he kept the law of God perfectly all the way up to his death so that he was that sinless sacrifice for us in every respect.

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So that was the reason for Jesus' baptism. And I did mean to say that too when

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I was reading from John 1, Monday or Tuesday or whenever it was that I was in that particular lesson.

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But it's just kind of like, you know, there's certain subjects that sometimes take precedence over others.

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Yes. But we can always cover it in a Q &A when we get around to Friday, if I can remember to grab your question and then read it.

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Well, you know. So whoever it was that emailed that question, thank you. And also to Eugene in Augusta, Georgia, thank you for listening in.

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This next question comes from Johnny. He says, hey, Pastor Gabe, first I want to thank you for your ministry.

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It has been an encouragement. And just listening to you break down a text teaches me how to read and dig deeper.

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So thank you. And I appreciate that, Johnny. I had to be taught that. So there are good men of God who are around me that showed me how to use scripture to interpret scripture.

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The first person who showed me that was my dad. Right. So when he taught me how to read the Bible, he showed me how to use this text to apply to this text.

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And we interpret things according to what the whole Bible says. Right. Because even though it was written over a span of 1 ,500 years, it's the same author.

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It is. So true. The Holy Spirit working through men to write down what they wrote down, as Peter talks about in 2

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Peter chapter 1. So Johnny goes on to say, I have a question about something that I heard on a podcast the other day.

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I decided to listen to Apologia's podcast, Apologia Radio, and I select,

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I'm sorry, Apologia Radio. I was going to correct you. Yeah, I know.

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Difference in understanding of Greek, I suppose. But you know, James White does it too.

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Does he? He calls it Apologia Radio. And him and Jeff Durbin, who's the host of it. Well, people call this, well, what?

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That's true. Yeah. That's all good. I was never calling it, well, what? It was Todd Friel that started that. Right. So everybody else does too.

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That's just fine. That's good. I think it's great. Probably fits better than just, what? What?

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Everybody's like, what? What? What? It's like an Abbott and Costello exchange.

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Who's on first? What's on second? Exactly. I don't know who's on third. What? Anyway. Apologia.

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So, yeah. Apologia Radio. And I selected an episode on culture, which was episode number 256 entitled

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Justice, Worldview, and More. And I listened to it. I'll share that here in just a moment. The guest that they had on was named

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Dr. Andrew Sandlin. And he made a comment about John MacArthur and said he was narrow -minded.

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This was right after calling him a good man. This question may not be a big deal, but I've always been a man of doubt and double -takes.

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I've always found Pastor MacArthur to be faithful and knew that's why many may not like him because of his faithfulness to scripture.

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But it did make me stop for a second. My question is, if we truly are faithful to the word, would we be considered narrow -minded and come off as stubborn as Pastor MacArthur does?

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Or does Dr. Sandlin have something here? Thank you for your time. And I know my question isn't weighty or even important, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts on this.

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Well, I went and listened to the episode. It had been a while since I listened to Apologia. And this particular exchange between the

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Apologia team and Dr. Sandlin was about the statement on social justice and the gospel, which

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I'm a signer of that particular statement. So, I appreciate John MacArthur, Votie Bauckham, James White, Tom Askall, Tom Buck, Justin Peters, Phil Johnson, doing this off the top of my head here,

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Todd Friel, all the guys who were involved in helping to write and put out this statement, the statement on social justice.

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Thank you to those men for doing that. And I appreciated the statement and I signed the statement.

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In an effort to encourage the discussion within the church on social justice, but that we're focusing more on the gospel rather than these issues that are really being named by the culture and the church is starting to adopt and pull them in.

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Right. So, that our focus remains on the gospel and reaching people for Christ. Are you going to grab something there?

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Mm -hmm. Becky was reaching under my arm and I was like, oh, hey. Hands up. Whoa, is there a bug?

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No, it was just a hair. Yeah, see, if there was a bug, you definitely would not be reaching for it. No, I would not be reaching for it.

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You would have moved your chair over there. You better believe it. It'd be in the outtakes.

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So, anyway, so I did listen to the episode and it really was good. So, it's episode 256 of Apologia because the way that Dr.

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Apologia. Apologia. The way that Dr. Sanlin broke this down was great.

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The way that he broke down the whole concept of cultural Marxism and what we mean when we use that term was easy to digest.

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Anybody of any level of intellect would be able to understand the basic terms that Dr.

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Sanlin put cultural Marxism in. Okay. So, helping us understand it, not only from the perspective of what the culture means when they use it, but why the church shouldn't be adopting this terminology and incorporating it into the evangelism that we're supposed to be doing.

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And I'm going to play portions of that here in just a moment. So, before I listened to the episode, though,

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I was pretty sure I knew why Dr. Sanlin referred to John MacArthur is narrow -minded.

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And listening to the episode, my suspicions were confirmed. This was simply a difference of eschatology or a study of the end times.

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While Dr. Sanlin believes that MacArthur is straight as an arrow on the fundamental aspects of the gospel, and that's what he's going to say here,

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MacArthur doesn't go far enough in his understanding of the effects of the gospel on the culture. That's Dr.

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Sanlin's perspective of this. Okay. MacArthur is a dispensationalist, while Sanlin and the

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Apologia Ministries at all, Apologia Ministries all together, they are post -millennial reconstructionists.

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The worldview was pervasive throughout the conversation, the entire one -hour episode. And I don't wholly disagree with the concept of post -millennial reconstructionists, but there are some viewpoints that I don't share.

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While I agree with post -millennial ambition that all spheres of influence in the culture need to come under the authority of Christ and his law,

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I agree with that aspect of post -millennialism. I disagree with the postmills that it will actually happen in this age.

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This is the case also with our own sanctification. Like you apply this to our sanctification, our being made holy, or being made more like Christ.

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That's what we talk about when we're talking about being sanctified. So when you came to believe in Jesus, you were completely justified, but you were not yet fully sanctified.

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So we are growing in holiness now, and we are being made holy. And it is a work that will not be completed until the day of Christ.

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As Paul says in Philippians chapter one, we should want and strive for perfection in the body, even though we will not acquire it on this side of heaven.

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And Paul said this in Philippians 3 .12, not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

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So Paul here to the Philippians saying, I'm not perfect, but I desire perfection because Christ who is perfect has made me his own.

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And what he gave for me, that I might become his, he was the perfect sacrifice.

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I want to be as my Lord. And so we pursue that, even though we know that on this side of heaven, that living in these bodies that are subject to corruption, not just in the sense that we can be tempted, but also that the body is wasting away, it's falling apart.

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So the fact that we are so true, we all feel that. I'm wearing a knee brace right now because I feel like my knees are falling apart.

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But anyway, so as we feel in our bodies, it's susceptibility to corruption.

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We know that we can be tempted and fall into sin. So we're not perfect. And we will not reach and attain that perfection until the day of glory.

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So this also is the case with the culture. We as Christians should desire to make the culture perfect.

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We should desire to bring all spheres of influence in the culture under the authority of God's word, his law,

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Jesus Christ, what Christ has commanded. We should desire that everyone in the culture follow that. But the reality is that it's not going to happen.

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This side of heaven, the world will not be perfect. And we've been assured of that.

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In this world, you will have trouble. But take heart, I have overcome the world. We've also been told in Matthew chapter seven, that the way to destruction is wide.

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And many people are going to find that because that's the easy way.

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But narrow is the way that leads to life. And few are going to find that because that's the difficult way.

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And Jesus himself saying that the way to eternal life through him is always going to be the narrow path.

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The majority of people are always going to take the broad path. And there's no reason for us to believe that will ever be any different at any stage in the age in which we live.

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Right. The effect of the work of the gospel is not up to us. So we should strive to share the gospel in this culture.

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Jesus told us to, Matthew 28, that we need to go into all nations, baptizing in the name of the father and of the son and the

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Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. We've been commanded by Christ to do this.

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So we should desire that the whole culture would be changed by the gospel. Right. But the effect of that work is not up to us.

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It's God's alone. Amen. And the church will always, always be in the minority.

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Now we have the. That's tough. It is. That's a tough place to be. It's tough to swallow. And I understand why when

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I read through church history and I'll read about guys, particularly the Puritans who were post -millennial.

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I understand why. I know why they were that way and the desire that they had for everything to just get better.

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Right. And the gospel would make everything better. I get why people have that viewpoint of the end times, why they're post -millennial.

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But it is, it's simply not going to be the reality, this side of glory.

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We have the advantage in power, but we will never have the majority until we are fully sanctified in Christ's heavenly kingdom.

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Right. And then that's all there will be. There will just be fully sanctified people with Christ forever.

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So I'm not post -millennial. I'm also not dispensationalist as Pastor MacArthur is. But nevertheless, I appreciate

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Apologia Radio. Hey, I got it right that time. Although in my head, the whole time I was approaching the word,

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I'm going, what is it? The correct Greek pronunciation is Apologia.

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Uh -huh, moving on. Apologia Radio and the work that they do for the gospel.

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And I praise the Lord for the influence that Pastor MacArthur has had. Oh, yeah.

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Regarding his submission to the authority of scripture and that it is sufficient for every need that we have.

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We find sufficiency in scriptural teaching and MacArthur's scriptural teaching.

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I mean, he's been that way for 50 years. Can you imagine that?

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This coming year, 2019, is 50 years that he has been at Grace Community Church.

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So cool. That's incredible. What a faithful ministry. So I find the question that Johnny had was, if we are truly faithful to the word, would we be considered narrow -minded and come off as stubborn as Pastor MacArthur does?

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Or does Dr. Sanlin have something here? No, because again, Dr. Sanlin's perspective on this was simply a difference of opinion regarding eschatology, because he was talking about he's approaching this from the post millennial perspective.

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And that's why he said that. Let me go ahead and play the clip. OK. And then I'll answer

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Johnny's question more directly here. This is a couple of minutes. OK. It's going to be about a three minute clip or so.

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There was a recent statement put out. It was a statement on social justice and the gospel.

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And you guys can all read that at statementonsocialjustice .com, statementonsocialjustice .com.

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Dr. Sanlin, you signed the statement. And I want to just talk to you in terms of just quickly addressing this.

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There are sort of two directions people go as they've looked at the statement and they've criticized or made comments on the statement.

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On the one hand, you have people ultimately, I think, that are falling into a lot of this cultural

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Marxism and things like that. And they have sort of a wrong way of looking at justice or social righteousness. Their complaint, looking at the statement, is you guys don't care about justice at all.

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You don't care about these issues. You're not willing to address them. You're putting them, you know, you're just trying to tuck them under the rug.

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You know, you're not really listening. And so that's the one complaint. On the other hand, this is the interesting thing.

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There are Christians that hold to a more, I think, biblical, historic view of culture and society and the kingdom of God.

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You have people that would call themselves post -millennialists that are actually complaining, saying, well,

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I don't think that I can't sign this statement because I don't believe it goes far enough. I mean, it minimizes the language that I would want to see take place in saying things like, you know,

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Christians should have some effect on the culture. But Dr. Sandlin, you and we here at Apologia Studios believe it's ultimately through the kingdom of God, the preaching of the gospel, regeneration, new hearts and all that.

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It's not going to be some effect on the culture. We believe, 1 Corinthians 15, that Jesus is putting every enemy under his feet.

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And after every enemy is under his feet, then death will be put under his feet. But that's after everything's put into subjection to him.

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So Jesus wins, not just at the end of the world and the resurrection, but in history through his conquering kingdom and gospel.

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So there are people that hold our perspective that would say, hey, I don't think this statement goes far enough. What would you say to that? Yeah, no.

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Good point. In fact, one of our scholars didn't sign it. Dustin Messer wrote a fine article. I'm particularly sympathetic to that second objection.

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I don't in substance disagree with it. The reason I signed that statement is because it was a powerful declaration against, quote, modern social justice, modern egalitarian social justice and cultural

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Marxism. I think the statement is much stronger in its denials than in its affirmation.

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So I agree entirely, it did not go far enough. It doesn't have a full -orbed understanding of the gospel.

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It was put out by John MacArthur, who I think in many ways is a good man, but I think he himself has a rather narrow, and has had.

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His dad was a fundamentalist, good, faithful. On the fundamentals of the faith, Australia's narrow. But on some of these other issues that are close to the fundamentals, like the fullness of the gospel,

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I think there's something wanting. So I think that statement is one thing. So that's the context of his comment.

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And he's, Dr. Sandlin's not the only one on Apology Radio who has said that. I've heard the guys say that before about Todd Friel and about John MacArthur, that their views were narrow.

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I don't think they use that term. Dr. Sandlin used that term there. But just that they disagreed with their views on eschatology, because the

31:26

Apologia guys hold a post -millennial view of eschatology, whereas John MacArthur and his ministry,

31:32

Grace to You, have a dispensational view of the end times, which is that God has arranged things in different dispensations or different periods of time.

31:41

The post -millennial, like I said, is a reconstructionist view that everything is going to get progressively better.

31:47

And Jeff Durbin said it right there. God is gradually bringing all of his enemies under the feet of Christ.

31:56

And the last enemy to be put to death is going to be death. So the last enemy to be destroyed will be death, because it's ironic to say death is going to be dead.

32:06

Kind of weird. So he's putting all of his enemies under his feet. It's like everything's getting better until Jesus returns and finally destroys death.

32:15

And that's just not what we see in Scripture. There's nothing in Scripture that is preparing us for that, building up to this ultimate moment.

32:23

Rather, what Jesus is constantly preparing his disciples for is, in this world, you'll have tribulation.

32:29

It's going to be hard. It's going to be difficult. You're always going to be on the narrow path. So yes,

32:35

God is bringing all of the enemies of Christ into subjection, but that doesn't reach its ultimate fulfillment until Christ returns.

32:43

Christ is the one who destroys those enemies, not us. Right. Like I said, we have the advantage in power, but we're always going to be in the minority.

32:53

The world cannot take from us what we have, and the church will never be overcome.

32:59

Never. Jesus said that in Matthew 16, the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

33:04

Right. And in Matthew 8, nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our

33:10

Lord. Right. So rejoice. Amen. Praise God. There is nothing in life that can happen to you so bad that you would be separated from God's love.

33:20

The world can't take it from you. Right. We are sealed in Christ. Praise God. Glory. So we've got power.

33:27

The world doesn't. Right. We've got the power and the Holy Spirit sealed by his grace. So that's...

33:34

And anyway, the statement that Dr. Sandlin said there toward the end was how

33:41

John MacArthur was very straight as an arrow on the fundamentals, but he was narrow -minded.

33:48

And again, they want a more robust gospel from the post -millennial perspective rather than MacArthur's dispensational perspective.

33:54

But one of the ways in which apologia and grace to you, I think, would talk past one another is they're actually doing the same things.

34:04

It's just that they have different words by which they explain or understand or believe the end times.

34:10

But as far as the exercise of the gospel is concerned, they're doing the same things. Right. The team at Apologia, they go out, they share the gospel, they've got videos of it online and all this kind of thing.

34:23

Grace to you and Grace Community Church, they're doing the exact same thing. Right. So while Jeff Durbin and the

34:30

Apologia guys would say, we don't really like John MacArthur's view of the end times because it's not robust enough, he needs to be out there actually doing exercise of the gospel to bring all of the culture under the authority of Christ and things like that, like what we're doing.

34:46

Well, that is what they're doing. Right. They just don't describe it the same way that you do. Right. Because you're describing it from a post -millennial perspective and they just have a different view of the end times.

34:55

So again, when you break it down, all of us in Christ, we're doing the same things. We might have different beliefs in how

35:03

Christ is going to bring about the end of all of these things. Most definitely. But I mean, keep your focus on Christ and be out there sharing his gospel.

35:13

End times perspectives are non -essentials. Right. Unless you say Jesus has already returned or you say something to that effect.

35:23

Because Paul actually put people out of the church for saying those kinds of things. Right. That the resurrection of the dead had already happened.

35:31

Yeah. So that's heresy. If you say that either Jesus is not going to return or he's already returned, that's a heretical viewpoint of the end times.

35:39

But as far as all of us believing Jesus is going to return, we just disagree on the order in which all of that's going to take place.

35:47

Right. It's fine for us to disagree on that as long as we can use those perspectives to sharpen one another.

35:54

Exactly. Keeps us coming back to the word, perfecting our understanding of what God says to us through his word.

36:01

And we can come back and encourage and build one another up in this way. We should be rejoicing together and looking forward together in the coming of Christ.

36:09

Not bickering. Not bickering. Right. And that's exactly what Paul said to the Thessalonians.

36:15

And first Thessalonians, when he talked to them about the manner in which Christ was going to come back, he said, therefore, encourage one another in these things.

36:23

So we should not be discouraging against one another because we have different views of the end times.

36:28

And that shouldn't be our focus anyway, because Jesus said that the only one who knows is the father. Right.

36:33

So it's not for us to know. No one knows the times and set dates except for the father.

36:39

Right. And so we know that Christ is...

36:44

Then it's not important for us to think about and focus on. So we need to focus on the here and the now and the spreading of the gospel.

36:51

Now, everybody who has an end times view believes that theirs is the right one. Well, of course. And I get that.

36:57

Because they're decisive. I believe mine's the right one. That's fine. But just as long as it does not cause division, because it's not a first tier issue.

37:06

The return of Christ, yes, that is a first tier issue. Amen. But the order in which those things happen and come about, that's not a first tier issue.

37:14

Those are secondary or even in some cases, tertiary issues. So we can encourage one another in those things, knowing that Christ is going to return.

37:23

We rejoice in knowing that he's going to come back. We can even argue about the particulars of it as long as that arguing is not bickering and quarreling.

37:32

Right. As long as that's not turning into division. I get that there are going to be some churches out there that are so dedicated to their view of the end times that they cannot accept another one.

37:43

That's fine. If that's what you as a church decide, if that's your conviction, that's okay.

37:49

So long as you're not breaking fellowship with other believers over that very thing. I disagree with churches that put in their statements of faith that you have to believe this end times perspective or you can't be a member of our church.

38:03

Right. That bugs me. Yeah. But if as a church, you come to an agreement, this is the view that we want to have of Christ return and revelation and things like that.

38:11

And we're not going to hire a pastor that believes otherwise. Well, that's fine. Right. That's your conviction on that.

38:17

I understand that. And I respect that, even though I may not agree with the perspective that you have. But again, just as long as we don't go in a direction of being divided between one another over this.

38:28

Right. Or saying things to one another like, well, I mean, that's borderline heresy because you don't have my view of the end times.

38:35

It's a little too separatist there than we need to be.

38:41

So anyway, coming back to Johnny's question, which I said that I was going to answer directly and still haven't done yet.

38:47

Yes, exactly. Is it okay? Okay, I'll just read it word for word here because I'm not summarizing it well.

38:56

My question is, if we are truly faithful to the word, would we be considered narrow minded?

39:02

And my answer to that is yes. Yes. And it's a compliment. Yes. Matthew chapter seven.

39:08

Most definitely. Verses 13 and 14. Enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction and those who enter by it are many.

39:20

But the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life and those who find it are few.

39:26

So until the day of Christ return, I say, if someone calls you narrow minded, consider it a compliment.

39:32

All right. So those are the questions that we have had from the listeners.

39:39

And now I want to get to some comments about Flat Earth. And Becky's totally excited for this part.

39:46

So she's jumping for joy next to me over here. The first one is actually a legitimate question.

39:54

Okay. And then the rest of them are all nothing but criticisms. But these are comments that came from Facebook.

40:02

If you went to our Facebook page and saw the video on Flat Earth, you would not see these comments underneath.

40:08

They're hidden. The only people that can see them are the persons who made them and any of their friends, but they're not for the public to see.

40:17

Okay. Because some of these guys just, I mean, they're there to be noticed and they want to control the conversation.

40:24

Right. And there was one guy, I won't even mention his name, but man, he was just hovering over everything and liking all these comments and sharing these comments and responding to these comments.

40:34

And that's exactly what I try to avoid in comment sections. Right. So I was hiding all those comments and you don't see them except for the people who made them and their friends, those who would be friends with them.

40:49

Yeah, that's right. That's how Facebook works. I don't even use Facebook, so I don't know. You kind of do.

40:56

Just all I do is help manage the What Facebook page. That's it. Yes. Just making sure the content on there is when we understand the text.

41:04

That's right. So these comments come from that. I'm not going to read any of the comments where people are swearing at me and telling me that I'm going to hell.

41:16

I'm glad you're not going to. Not going to address any of those. But before we get to this, let me go ahead and play the video.

41:23

Okay. So this is the video that I just released a couple of days ago on how the Bible does not say that the

41:30

Earth is flat. Does the

41:35

Bible say the Earth is flat? No. Do we really have to cover this topic? Scoffers twist the

41:42

Bible into saying the Earth is flat. Now a growing number of professing Christians are doing it. Flat earthers use 1

41:48

Samuel 2, 8 and Psalm 75, 3, which mention the pillars of the Earth and how God has set the world upon them.

41:54

But this is poetic, meaning that God has created all things and established them. Flat earthers use

42:00

Job 28, 24 and Psalm 48, 10, which refer to the ends of the Earth. But this is symbolic for a great distance or all people.

42:08

Acts 13, 47 says the Lord has commanded us to bring the message of salvation to the ends of the

42:13

Earth. Flat earthers use Isaiah 11, 12 and Revelation 7, 1, which speak of the four corners of the

42:19

Earth. Still symbolism, referring to something happening in all directions, north, south, east and west.

42:25

The Bible doesn't explicitly say the Earth is flat or round, although it does allude to its spherical shape.

42:31

Job 26, 7 says God hangs the Earth on nothing. And Isaiah 40, 22 says He sits above the circle of the

42:38

Earth. If you think the Bible says the Earth is flat, you put that in the text. You did not pull that from the text.

42:44

Flat earth cosmology is derived from paganism, not Christianity. Whatever you believe about the shape of the

42:50

Earth, it doesn't have any bearing on your salvation. Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Nonetheless, the

42:56

Bible says avoid irreverent silly myths. Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies when we understand the text.

43:17

I knew the can of worms this was going to open up. I did not want to argue about something as insignificant as the shape of the

43:24

Earth. So Austin left a question and here is what he asked.

43:30

So this is the one question I'm going to respond to. And then I've got comments from the critics. Yes. Austin said, how do you address the firmament claims that they make?

43:38

So the firmament arguments by flat earthers are according to what we read in Genesis. If you were to read it in the

43:44

King James version, the description of the sky is the firmament. Okay.

43:49

The first verse that appears is Genesis 1, 6. And God said, let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from the waters.

43:58

And God made the firmament and he divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament.

44:04

And it was so. And God called the firmament heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

44:10

You know how that reads in the English standard version? Genesis 1, 6.

44:16

Do tell. And God said, let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters and let it separate the waters from the waters.

44:23

And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse.

44:29

And it was so. And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning the second day.

44:35

The word for firmament is simply another word for sky. Right. In fact, if you were to look up the definition of that word, that's exactly what the definition would say.

44:43

What is the firmament? The sky. So what does it mean that God separated the waters from the waters?

44:49

So we have the waters down low and we have the waters up high and there's the expanse that's in between.

44:54

Well, it's the sky. The waters above are the waters that are in the clouds. Exactly. That's what we're talking about.

45:03

So he took water and put it in the heavens. By the way, the water cycle is mentioned in the

45:08

Bible. Oh, really? The whole thing of evaporation, clouds forming, rain falling.

45:14

Have you ever seen that process happen? No one has ever seen that process happen. It's invisible to the eye.

45:21

Yet the Bible talks about it. Occasionally I feel it. That's true, yeah. Like the fog.

45:28

Foggy brain is everything. So Isaiah 55, 10 and 11. For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there, but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth.

45:47

It shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose and shall succeed in the thing for which

45:54

I sent it. There's a water cycle right there. Yeah. God is using the water cycle as the way his word goes out.

46:02

Just as the rain falls down from heaven and doesn't go back to the heaven without doing that which it was sent to the earth to do.

46:09

Right. So my word doesn't go out from me void. So true. It accomplishes the thing that God meant for his word to accomplish.

46:16

So there we have the water cycle mentioned in the Bible. Again, Genesis one, that's all it's describing there.

46:22

Water in the sky, clouds, water on the earth. Water. Yeah. Seas, rivers, lakes, oceans, so on and so forth.

46:34

So that was Arthur's question. Austin's question. I'm sorry. Now here's the critics.

46:41

Okay. I'll respond to some of these comments from the critics. So Nathan said, sorry, I usually like these videos, but you got it wrong on this one.

46:49

Genesis one isn't poetic language. That's funny because I didn't even mention Genesis one. I know

46:54

Genesis one is not poetic language. Isaiah and Job are almost entirely poetic language.

47:00

So Isaiah 40, 22 does say circle, which does not mean ball.

47:06

Right. But what did I say in the video? I said that the Bible alludes to its spherical shape.

47:12

Right. Meaning that there are hints and suggestions that indicate the writers of the Bible understood that the earth was a sphere and there's nothing in the

47:21

Bible that contradicts that reality. So Nathan goes on to say the Hebrew words are very clear.

47:27

He doesn't understand Hebrew. We live in an enclosed system where planets don't exist and water always finds its level.

47:35

Planets don't exist. What is it that I'm looking at when I go out with a telescope and I look through my telescope at Mars, Saturn or Jupiter, all three of which are planets that I've looked at through my telescope.

47:51

And I've even looked at through a telescope powerful enough Jupiter and watched the spot on the front of it rotate around Jupiter.

48:03

What am I looking at then if there are not planets? What are the flat earthers response to this?

48:08

Has somebody put some sort of a film in my telescope that shows me a planet when

48:14

I'm looking at it? I don't understand the argument. I don't even understand where this rationale comes from.

48:21

I've looked at planets. We don't live in a system where there are no planets. I've seen them with my own eyes.

48:27

Right. So what are they talking about as a flat earther never actually looked through a telescope at a planet before?

48:34

I don't know. All right. Next comment from Matthew. Bible obviously states that the

48:40

Earth is an enclosed creation. There's that argument again. Everything about modern cosmology is a direct 180 degree opposite of biblical narrative.

48:49

And no, that's not a coincidence. I don't know what that means. Nothing in the Bible even remotely points to a heliocentric model.

48:57

Well, I did say that the Bible doesn't explicitly state that the Earth is round. It also does not explicitly state that the

49:02

Earth is flat. So you're making that argument from silence, which is not an argument that I'm making.

49:08

Right. I'm saying that what the Bible says does not contradict with reality, which is the spherical

49:13

Earth heliocentrism, the idea that there are planets in the solar system. All of these things do not contradict what we have in Scripture.

49:23

Whereas you've got claims in like the Book of Mormon that do contradict reality.

49:28

You've got claims in the Koran that contradict natural reality. Right. In the Koran, it's claimed that mountains keep the

49:35

Earth from shaking, but there are earthquakes and mountains all the time. So the claims in the

49:41

Koran are not divinely inspired. So therefore, the things that they say about nature are faulty.

49:47

Right. Whereas what the Bible says is not are faulty. Ah, I got it. I got it.

49:52

Okay. Sorry. The pun didn't hit me right away. That was smooth.

49:59

Thanks. I didn't catch it right away. Then as I'm talking, it's like, oh, my wife made it funny.

50:08

Very good. And Annie got me on one tonight, too. Yes, she did. That was hilarious. Yeah. See, when somebody can get dad with a dad joke.

50:17

It's just that much more fun. That's right. Okay, the next one. This one's from Josh. Why did they leave out

50:24

Genesis 1 through 11? I guess he's talking about who made the video, I suppose. Why did they leave out

50:30

Genesis 1 through 11, where it states God created the heavens and the earth, then created the sun for light? Pretty much kills your heliocentric model.

50:38

No, on the contrary, what that affirms when we read in Genesis that God created light first, and then the sun and the moon next, is that God governs these things, not the sun and the moon.

50:50

So the sun and the moon are not the origin of light. God is. God created the light. Right. And when you go from Genesis 1, 2, and 3 to Revelation chapters 20, 21, and 22, you see some interesting parallels between the first three chapters of the

51:07

Bible and the last three chapters of the Bible. Right. Because God is bringing all things into subjection under Christ.

51:14

He is reconciling all things through the person and work of Jesus Christ. And in the last three chapters of the

51:19

Bible, we see that being accomplished. So it's everything that we saw in Genesis 1, which is the creation, it's good, and then it falls to corruption because of sin.

51:31

And then we see that in reverse in Revelation. Everything that is corrupted because of sin, being made new through Christ.

51:38

And one of the descriptions that we have of this kingdom that we are going to inherit, all of us who are in Christ, is that there is no need for sun and moon, because God is the light that is there.

51:48

Right. And so those things won't exist anymore in heaven, just as at the beginning of creation, when light came into existence, there was no sun and moon, because the originator of light is

51:59

God. He gave us the sun and moon to govern the day, the sun to govern the day, the moon to govern the night, and that they would also be for signs and seasons.

52:11

Right. Genesis 1 is not poetry. And the book of Revelation is apocalyptic literature.

52:17

So you interpret those two things that way. You interpret Genesis 1 literally because that's the way it's written.

52:23

And you interpret Revelation as apocalyptic literature because that's the way it's written. You interpret

52:29

Isaiah as the voice of God through a prophet. You interpret Job in a very poetic way because that's exactly the way the book of Job is written.

52:38

You interpret Psalms as songs because that's exactly what they are. So these are written in certain literary forms, and they have to be interpreted according to the literature that is being used when these things are being communicated.

52:52

And this is basic stuff, folks. Right. This is people who have a basic understanding of the way language works.

52:59

This is not something that I should be saying to you here that... You can't go to a comedy and expect it to be all serious.

53:08

Right, yeah, right. You go to a comedy club. And you're expecting to see a drama. Right. That would be dumb.

53:14

Yeah, you would be sorely displeased. Boy, I'm totally offended by this guy.

53:21

Yeah. My feelings are supposed to be hurt, and he's making fun of it, something like that. So, right, you got to understand these things in the context in which they are given.

53:30

And Flat Earth totally takes that stuff out of context, takes passages way out of context.

53:36

And like I said in the video, this is stuff that atheists used to do.

53:42

This is what... I remember that, yeah. This is what people used to do who scoffed at Christianity.

53:47

They would take these passages out of context, out of the Bible, and go, ha, ha, ha, look, they believe in a Flat Earth. Right.

53:53

That's not what those verses meant at all. Right. Now there are Christians actually doing that. And so if you believe in a

54:01

Flat Earth, you believe in either something that atheists used to say about the

54:07

Bible, which wasn't true, or you believe something that sky worshippers used to believe. Because the whole

54:13

Flat Earth concept, when you look back through the history of ancient civilizations, those who believed in a

54:20

Flat Earth were people who worshipped the sky, because they believed the sky was an object to be worshipped.

54:27

If the sky had depth to it, then it couldn't be an object to worship. Right. But it was a dome.

54:32

So there is a God that governs that dome. There is a God in the sun.

54:37

There's a God in the moon. There's a God in the stars. This is what pagans did.

54:44

And that model that you're used to seeing, which is called the three -tiered model, or the three -universe model, where it's kind of like a ball, and the top is the dome, and then on the inside, you've got the sun, moon, and stars.

54:58

And then you've got the earth, and underneath the earth, you've got like Sheol, or the grave, or hell, or whatever it would be.

55:05

And then you've got the pillars of the earth that are holding it up. And then outside the dome is just, oh,

55:13

I can't even remember. The Sumerians had a particular name for it, but I don't remember what it is. And it's just like the void, or whatever.

55:19

So that model that you have seen, that's pagan. And there were a lot of different ancient pagan religions that believed that model.

55:26

So they had some form of cosmology that could be explained by that particular three -tier model.

55:33

Okay. Somebody took that three -tier model, and then started taking verses out of the Bible, and applying it to the three -tier model, and then saying, see,

55:41

Christians believe this too. No, no, no. That's not the model that Christianity followed. It's some scoffer who took verses out of context and applied it to a pagan model.

55:51

But there were people who are flat earthers who are sending me that model and saying, see, the

55:57

Hebrews believe that. No, that's not Hebrew cosmology. That's not where that came from. You're actually giving me something that the

56:03

Sumerians and the ancient Greeks prior to Aristotle believed. Right. It's not Hebrew cosmology.

56:10

It's not ancient Israel cosmology. So then the last comment, this one's from Marcy Joshua 1013, or she's quoting to be

56:18

Joshua 1013. Is this then poetic or symbolic as well? And the sun stood still and the moon stayed until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies, which by the way, all the flat earth folks are

56:30

King James only us too. Okay. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

56:41

No, that's not poetic symbolism. That is narrative. So we read that a certain way, unlike the way that we would read or interpret the

56:51

Psalms a different way, because they're songs, because they're poetic, they're poetic. So Joshua 1013 is not poetic.

56:58

It is narrative. So exactly what is being described there is exactly what happened. Now, when the flat earthers have sent me that verse, what they have said is that this is saying the sun stood still in the heavens.

57:12

So that means the sun is moving, not the earth. The earth doesn't. It doesn't say the earth stood still.

57:18

It says the sun stood still. So if the sun stood still, the sun is the thing moving and the earth is what is staying still.

57:26

But as I explained, I believe it was last week. Everybody does this. We describe things according to our vantage point.

57:33

Right. It doesn't matter that we know as heliocentrists that the earth is going around the sun.

57:39

We're still going to use terms like sunrise. Right. Or moonrise. Right. Or any of these things, because that's what we observe from our vantage point.

57:49

It's not a concession that the sun is going around the earth. It's just simply what we see, what we perceive from earth.

57:58

And we're never going to get to the sun and perceive the earth from the sun. Right. Even though we know that the earth is actually what's rotating around the sun rather than the sun going around the earth.

58:09

Now, like I said at the beginning, I have not responded to any of the emails that I get. I'm busy.

58:15

I have a lot to do. And this is casting pearls before swine. Right. It's arguing about something I'm never going to change their mind over.

58:22

This is what happens when a person sits in front of their computer and watches YouTube video after YouTube video after YouTube video on flat earth myth and how this is all one one big conspiracy theory that's been perpetrated by NASA and Big Globe to get you to believe these things to fund the industrial complex or any of these arguments that they make.

58:45

When you subject yourself to those kinds of videos over and over and over again, eventually you get to this kind of thinking.

58:51

And so for me to think that I'm going to change your mind in a three paragraph email. Right. Is just not going to happen.

58:58

I hope. And your family loves to see you a little bit more often than that. Becky's saying that to me.

59:04

Yes. Yes. I don't want to waste my time arguing with flat earth when I could be spending time with this woman that I adore and my kids who are absolutely adorable.

59:16

And it's with my kids that I've looked at planets through the telescope. I have flown at 40000 feet on a clear day and have seen the curvature of the earth.

59:27

I know that the earth is round just by looking at the moon. And the shadow that is caused on the moon cannot be caused on a flat disc.

59:36

That kind of shape of shadow happens only on a ball. Right. You just take a ball, you shine light on it.

59:43

You're going to get the effect that you see on the moon. You take a Frisbee and shine light on it. You will never generate the effect that you see on the moon on the

59:51

Frisbee. Right. And that's just the shadow cycles of the moon. I'm not even talking, you know,

59:57

Eclipse, though. The Eclipse is also confirmation that the earth is round. You go to the beach and you look at boats and you will watch them disappear on the horizon.

01:00:07

I've done it all the time. We do it every year that we go to the beach. Yes. We see sailboats disappear on the horizon. We saw a big cargo ship this year.

01:00:15

Yeah, that was fun. That was pretty awesome. But, you know, as they go off into the distance, they sink under the horizon. Why is that?

01:00:21

Because the earth is curved. Yes. It is not flat. It is as obvious as the sky is blue or water is wet.

01:00:29

And I'm not going to argue with anyone over water being wet. So I'm not going to argue with you over the shape of the earth either.

01:00:36

But I hope that even if you believe that the earth is flat, that you will not say to somebody that the reason or them thinking that the earth is round is somehow disqualifying them from salvation in Christ.

01:00:52

And I did have people sending me emails saying that because I made this video, I'm not going to go to heaven.

01:00:57

And I'm doing something satanic and I'm deceiving people with this video. I say I state explicitly in the video that your salvation has nothing to do with what shape you think the earth is.

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Believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. And in Christ, we show brotherly love and kindness and affection to one another and not divide each other over issues as silly as this.

01:01:24

Let's conclude with prayer. Yes, let's. Our great God, we thank you for as the creator of all things, giving us this beautiful, wonderful creation that we can behold and enjoy.

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And we see your majesty in all that has been made. If we look at something and we say how big that is, wow, isn't that huge?

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We know you're bigger. If we look at something, we see that it's absolutely gorgeous. Look at how lovely that is.

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We know you are lovelier. And this creation has been given to us that we might see and behold your glory and how you are even greater and bigger than all of these things.

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So may we give glory where glory is due. And that is our holy God, merciful and gracious to us who gave us his son,

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Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins, who rose again from the grave, who ascended into heaven, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of God, interceding for us on our behalf so that all who believe in his name will not perish with this world that is wasting away.

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But we will be delivered from our mortality. We will be delivered from the sins that we have committed against God.

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We will be delivered from death, which is the wages of sin. And we will be given the eternal kingdom of God with our

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Lord and Savior Christ. We praise you for your great name and thank you for the great things that you continue to do in our lives every day.

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Keep us steadfast and focused on Christ until the day of his return. In the name of Jesus, we pray.

01:03:01

Amen. I've flown at 40 ,000 feet on a clear day.

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I've seen the curvature of the earth. As I said, I've looked at planets through telescopes. I've even seen those planets rotate.

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I know that the earth is flat just looking at the moon. The shadow. Earth is flat.

01:04:21

Did I say the earth is flat? You did. Hang on. I'm going to say that again. Again, you repeat that over and over again.

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And eventually you say it over and over and over again to yourself.

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That's right. And then you start believing it. So, deleted. It's like when my brother used to give me a hard time.

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No, you're not. Yes, I am. No, you're not. Yes, I am. No, you're not. Yes, I am. Yes, you are. No, I'm not. Yes. It's rabbit season.

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Duck season. Rabbit season. Duck season. Duck season. Rabbit season. Fire. Anyway.