Harold Camping, Baptism, Westboro Baptist Church

And welcome to the dividing line it is two o 'clock on a Saturday afternoon here in the Mountain West. Well, this is actually the desert Southwest. We have mountains, but anyways. That's what time it is and it's always that time.

Those of you who get confused about what time the program is on stop playing with your clocks. That is your only problem whatsoever is that you play? With those clocks that one weekend in the spring and one weekend the fall if you didn't do that.

Hey all of us would be on the same page all the time. And I don't know why all the rest you do that we tried that here once. But I think I've already told you it was really silly. To have it like a hundred and seven degrees at ten o 'clock at night during July, which is just you know a bad thing.

Anyhow, hey, I didn't I was. I'm always bad about updating the calendar on the website. And that's really bad because a lot of folks really depend on that every time I go someplace. We were in Dallas a couple weeks ago and Countryside Bible, and we had folks who showed up because they saw it on the website and We should do a better job in keeping track of things like that.

So let me know let me let you know right now. What's coming up this coming weekend. Yes right after Thanksgiving in fact I leave in fact. I need to find out when I leave. Need to go through the old emails here find out what I'm supposed to be at the airport.

Try to remember to bring my driver's license this time. Oh, man. That was a story anyways. We're going to st. Louis. Actually, it's st. Charles, Missouri. For those of you who are picky about things like that, but I suppose when people come to Phoenix if they're speaking in Glendale.

They say they're going to Phoenix so you know whatever however that works. Flying over there, and I think this will be the third time that I have been at the Covenant of Grace Church. In st. Charles I will be there the 29th through December 1st Friday night 7 o 'clock introduction to the Trinity on Saturday.

We're gonna be having three sessions. Oh. That's gonna keep y 'all going 10 a .m. On monotheism. 2 p .m. On the existence of the three persons in the Trinity. 7 p .m. The quality of the three persons in the Trinity.

There are breaks between between these. I want you to know right now and Then Sunday morning in the Bible study questions and answers and 11 o 'clock. I will be preaching in the service. This will be a third time.

I've been there. We did a seminar on the doctrines of grace a couple of years ago. I got to speak there in April of last year. I believe is April of last year. But just briefly in the morning because I was speaking at a conference there in the same area.

And they were kind enough to have me there van Lees and all the folks there wonderful folks. I really enjoy being with them and For information they are at 2320 old highway 94 south. Wherever in the world that is st Charles, Missouri 6 3 3 0 3 and if you want to get hold of them 6 3 6 4 4 7 56 91 is the number and They're at www .covenantofgracechurch .org.

For those of you who would like to look at that and check out the information there the whole thing for the Seminar is online there if you'd like to see that. And then I think I'm actually home for a while amazingly enough and I get to be here through the holidays and Then starting in the middle of January we head back to Long Island.

I do not have my schedule as yet. Concerning where I'm going to be obviously I'm gonna be doing the. Or I'm scheduled anyways do the youth retreat for Hope Reform Baptist Church. And that normally means I preach Sunday night the last Sunday nights of February there at Hope Reform Baptist Church.

But where I'll be before that is currently up in the air. I may be up in Connecticut. At Steve Eggy's Church. Haven't worked all that out yet, but that's something I'm hoping to get to do. Did that a couple years ago actually I think it wasn't and it must have been in January because I remember there was there was Snow and that means had have been had have been January couldn't have been during May or July.

Well I suppose you do have snow in Connecticut once in a while in May, but that'd be fairly rare. But anyways, that's that's coming up in January the first weekend in February I'm gonna be in Omaha with at Pat Abendroth Church, and no I do not have a URL.

I suppose I could look through my personal stuff here and probably track it down eventually. But we're gonna be up there for a. I think it's just a Saturday Sunday men's men's Bible study, I guess they have folks come from all over the place and We're gonna be doing that and I'm looking forward to that opportunity.

Haven't had a chance to meet Pat Abendroth but I met his brother in as a church. Bethlehem Bible Church in. Well, it's not Boston. Why is the name. BB BD BD BD. West Broylston. There you go. West Broylston, Massachusetts.

Yes that the the Great Republic The Republic of Massachusetts. Yes, we have ways of dealing with you, but anyways and then the third week of February I'm looking at the I Need to start making this this calendar on my desktop a little bit bigger.

Actually. It's looking good today. This should be.

The.

20th through the 23rd of February gonna be in San Antonio, Texas and we're going to do a full seminar on Norman Geisler's storm and Norman Geisler's chosen. But free. Yes indeed, I think we'll probably have a few copies of the Potter's freedom there but put together a PowerPoint presentation and handle all the questions and something tells me that probably.

Probably gonna be talking a little bit about maybe another book. Like what love is this as well? Because I've said many times so what love is this makes chosen, but free look like a scholarly tome. But still there are a lot of Crossover.

What was the date of San Antonio again? Well, let me repeat that because MDH is in the channel and those people who are in the channel have a special relationship to this program. Yes indeed. That's going to be February 20th through the 23rd.

Thank you very much for asking. I feel like ask Jeeves on The this is actually a computer-generated voice. I just sit here and watch the channel and respond to what's said. Yes, that's that's how it works.

Anyways, we're gonna be doing a seminar down there in February and I'm not sure about what happens after that. Obviously When is Easter could someone this is the other nice thing you I answer you all the channel now you all answer me.

When's Easter? I need to know the date of Easter because that will tell me the Did eat to eat to eat to eat. Oh, I didn't open up my little window here for mr. A o min so I can talk to him and he can talk to me.

Need to know the date of Easter. So we'll know when we're going to try notice the word try to have our Outreach at the Easter pageant of the Mormon Church in Mesa. Notice I said try I said try because we have been told that the same Wonderful Christian In-depth theologians that were in Salt Lake City running around.

Spring.

The Easter is in spring in the spring. Thank you very much. That's that's the day you're giving me. Thank you very much April April 20th. I Better not question the person who told me this because she could kick me April 20th.

Wow.

Late late late one this year. Those are those the hot ones because I mean man it can be it can be well over a hundred in that time of year. Around here. All right, April 20th. Hmm that okay. I got it.

Now. That's the 15th posting of the date now. Yeah, that's spring and I do realize that is spring. Hmm that that means it's going to be a good bit after The general conference of the church in in Salt Lake and we're just.

You know, I I find myself sitting around When I am not Dealing with my when I'm not sitting there staring at the the beautiful 320 by 320 TFT full-color screen on my palm pilot tungsten T.

I.

I'm wondering what in the world. Are we going to do in Salt Lake City? We mentioned we came back last time that again these people had acted like Well, I I don't know how I Don't know how to even Explain their their behavior.

I did see on the shields website shields as a LDS website there is an article With pictures of the the King James only folks and you know, the one thing that's obviously Struck me and I you know, I said this over and over again, but here's documented proof.

You want to go the shields website? And take a look at this yourself. Now these folks know there is a difference Between ourselves and these other people. There's no question the people who are involved with shields well know That we do not act like the King James only people so on so forth, but does it matter?

No, because if you read the captions while they do have a picture of one of the signs they had about me and that kind of stuff. They're still we're all just anti Mormons, we're all in the same Thrown in the same bucket and it doesn't matter whether you act like a complete and total Goon like these people do or whether you actually have serious things to say it does not matter whatsoever.

They are going to behave in a particular way. It's uh, it's truly a shame to see that kind of thing, but That's the way it is. That's That's that that's Exactly why these people are doing what they're doing and that's exactly what I've tried to explain to them in the past.

They don't care these people could care less about Evangelism or the glory of God or the truth of God or anything like it? I'm not talking about the shields people. I'm talking about the King James only wacko aids that are up there but anyways Don't know what we're gonna do in Salt Lake.

I mean we just may have to totally change how we do things. It may end up just being something where we really pour our energies into Arranging these debates more than we have in the past maybe work Even more with the individuals up there in Salt Lake City to to make that the main thing we do I don't know.

I just I just don't know it's. It's a difficult thing to face but certainly if those individuals show up in Mesa the outreach out there is going to be it's going to be over with because The Mesa PD the Mesa Police Department is not going to put up with their kind of behavior.

There is absolutely positively no no question about that and It's they show up and start behaving the way they behave and they don't know any other way to behave. That's just it they have no self-control.

They start behaving like that and they are out of there all of us. And they will not differentiate between us who've been there for this would be our 19th year.

And.

Actually if you include the the one time I went out there with my my lovely wife in the back of a Kawasaki 440 Less while we were newlyweds This would be the 20th year actually 21st because it was 1983 and this would be 2003 so I'd be you know.

Anyways, we've been out there a long time. They're not gonna care that that's gonna be absolutely irrelevant to them and Things will just fall apart. It'll be all over with and there will be no outreach.

And I've said many times these King James only folks are the Mormons greatest allies that they've ever ever had and so, I don't know what's gonna happen there, but that's what's coming up in the spring and I hold in my hand and By the way, if you'd like to comment anything I've said or I have a question I'm not really sure exactly where I'm going today I have a number of different little things to talk about here.

The number is eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty-one is the phone number and when I came into the office this afternoon I found the newest edition of the Christian Research Journal.

This is the let's see volume 25 number one 2002. I guess I don't put a Yeah, it's just just numbered now, it's not really, you know spring summer fall anything like that it's just what volume it is and what number it is and so on so forth and the the current edition of the CRI Journal Has a feature-length article entitled dangerous airwaves Harold campings call to flee the church.

Of course, that's the name of my book on Harold camping and Interestingly enough and they really could have gone a long way with this. They wanted to there are no No caricatures of Harold camping. Harold camping would be a person who is very very much Very very much liable to those caricatures that they've used for people like Oh TD Jake's and people like that, but Didn't go that direction.

Nice looking article and Wow, the synopsis takes up an entire blue page page 23. It's just it's just the blue page. It's a very pretty blue, but it's the the blue page Harold campings president family radio.

He teaches that God has done away with the church and thus there should be no more local congregations elders deacons and ordinances such as Baptism or the Lord's Supper. He maintains the Holy Spirit has left the church as an empty shell.

With no power to proclaim the gospel because camping calls his followers to flee the church and form fellowships. Around his teachings. Christians must understand what the Bible teaches about the church and what the proper means of biblical Interpretation are in order to counter campings false teachings.

Whenever you write one of these articles you get to write one of those little a synopsis and that's included there. So the current edition of the CRI Journal. If you haven't read dangerous airwaves yet Read it anyway.

Do not use that as an excuse not to read the book. Because these future articles are only about what 40 between 45 and 48 hundred words. And that's that's not really a whole lot and the book was significantly longer than that and goes into more detail so take a Take a look at that.

And if you do get the CRI Journal. Then you were already aware of that or you will become aware of that is that arrives. I've never quite figured out how things are shipped to be perfectly honest with you.

Because sometimes people will be asking me about something they've seen it and I haven't gotten mine yet. Or I'll get mine before the others and you know, whatever. So take a look at that. That is available right now.

8 7 7 7 5 3 33 41. I've been sort of watching a little bit of the Discussion here in the chat channel and so far, there's absolutely positively nothing of interest. Then someone asking if a Kawasaki 440 is a VCR that was deep I was that was real.

Real deep and then oh good. We don't have to worry about the stuff the pageant because the M fibbo is gonna bring up the Cajun Mafia. To handle the pageant, which I think the only thing they're known for is the the the the the the the the feeding people really hot food and as a result, they do whatever you tell them to do and.

But if you have questions or comments 8 7 7 7 5 3 33 41 it was interesting I Someone had posted the URL to what is it shields? You see here to do to do to do to do this is when I go to do to do to do when I'm scrolling back.

There it is www .shields-research .org is the URL for the website that I mentioned before and I was looking through there. I'd actually saved a couple articles. We really need to change the main page article and I'm a bad bad person and not getting those things done.

I've I've been working for those of you who are keeping track of these things. Yes, the second round for me anyways of the Dave Hunt debate book is completed. For those of you who are just tuning in I'm writing a book the title of which is yet unknown with well, I Don't want to say writing it with Dave Hunt because that would you know?

I wrote I've written books with Kevin Johnson with Jeff Neal so on and so forth. And that meant we cooperated together, and that's not what we're doing here instead it is more of a it is a debate book and There are little I guess we could describe those rounds in the writing and that is each of us wrote seven presentations three thousand words presenting our position and Then we exchanged them.

I finally got all of his just a few weeks ago. And then we write seven responses of two thousand words each, and then we exchange them and Then we write 1 ,000 word responses to that and exchange them and then 500 word responses that and I'm not sure if we exchange them or not but anyways, so there's total 14 chapters with give and take in each one and Last week I mentioned that I was I think In the 6th on the 6th of the 7th finished those up just a couple days ago unfortunately it took me a little while.

The last one was was hard. It was it's on well part of Days presentation was on eternal security and his problems with the reformed Perspective on that unfortunately, and this is what I think is a drawback throughout the book is is that Dave just assumes? that his tradition is Orthodoxy and and as a result Doesn't bother to defend it.

He he for example is and this is in what love is this and not telling anything about a book hasn't been published yet. You can read his chapter in this in his book What love is this and his whole his whole thesis is well?

I don't believe in what Calvinists believe in. I just believe that because you believe you're you're eternally secure. I don't have to worry about whether I'm one of the elect or not. What that doesn't answer anything.

I mean that doesn't accomplish anything. What about false faith? Well? He doesn't seem to address that it's almost like there can't be such a thing as false faith. So it's I found the seventh one very difficult because only about 60 of the presentation was on that subject and everything else on totally different subjects compatibilism and limited atonement, and it's just you know all over the road and it's extremely difficult to You know deal with a response like that even when you focus in upon one element of it.

You sort of feel like I would like to comment on this and I would like to comment on that and there's just not enough space in the world even if I had more words than he had to to point out all of the Constant Misrepresentations of Reformed theology.

In fact in fact I want to bring this up. One of the regular folks in our chat channel Utilizes a tagline from Charles Haddon Spurgeon and He uses those of you who well if you're listening to this you've got to be a geek.

I mean He's got note a tagline is so it. You know I keep saying well if you don't know what a tagline is then you know in The internet you'll frequently write things, and I realized wait him if you're listening to this you're already on the internet.

You already know that stuff anyways. He uses this as a tat well part of this is a tagline, and I tracked it down the writings of Spurgeon because it just It demonstrates that. And I did actually make a joke about this, but I shouldn't that that Charles Haddon Spurgeon did know Dave Hunt.

Or at least he knew someone like him because this is what this is what Spurgeon wrote. This is from 1861 and now having made these remarks upon terms used we must observe that there is nothing upon which men need to Be more instructed than upon the question of what Calvinism really is the most infamous Allegations have been brought against us and sometimes I must fear by men who knew them to be utterly untrue and to this day there are many of our opponents who when they Run short of matter Invent and make for themselves a man of straw call that John Calvin and then shoot all their arrows at it.

We are not come here to defend your man of straw shoot at it or burn it as you will and if it suits your convenience Still oppose doctrines which were never taught and rail at fictions which save in your own brain were never in existence.

We come here to state what our views really are and we trust that any who do not agree with us Will do us the justice of not misrepresenting us if they can disprove our doctrines. Let them state them fairly and then overthrow them but why should they first caricature our opinions and then afterwards attempt to put them down and That that quote is going to end up in a future section of this book that we're writing.

I assure you because it is It is. Well It just demonstrates that there's nothing new under the Sun and what we're experiencing today.

In.

In what we see in in Norman Geisler and in Dave hunt and and in Bryson and and David cloud all these individuals who for some reason have felt that they need to Set us all straight warn the world about to the the terrible horrible errors of Calvinism.

But who and in general are the last people on the planet who would ever debate? These the subject openly they only want to do that without Any ability of anyone else's part to respond to them and to correct them but Seemingly they they recognize that there is headway being made and they are hearing more and more about the doctrines of grace and therefore They have decided to come after us with pitchforks.

Well, it seemingly is nothing new. Every time the truth makes makes headway, you're gonna have that kind of thing taking place, unfortunately. So that's just sort of how the way it is. That's the way it goes now.

I Mm-hmm. I was talking Before I talked about Spurgeon I was talking about something else. Where are the pictures on shields what link do I click on look for the thing about protesters at at At the general conference.

It was on the main page. I found it rather easily. Anyways, I also found an article on there that that really Maybe this is where I was gonna go and I'm not sure how I was gonna get there for what I was talking about but One thing that struck me as I was looking at the shields website.

Someone just posted the URL again. I guess I could probably give you The specific URL in the process probably knock us right off the air Trying to bring the thing up. But let me see here. Oh Boy that looks completely different Than it did yesterday That that hmm was I looking at something else I That does not at all look like what I was looking at yesterday.

That's weird. What in the world? That is very very very strange because I I Brought up something that had Hmm. Well anyways, that's that's interesting as someone's asking for where the article is and then I bring up that Website and that does not look anything At all like what I was looking at yesterday, I mean talk about a completely Different looking man, that is weird hmm well I saved a Saved an article off of this.

Huh, huh, huh? Well, let's see if I can find the article. Maybe that would have Salvation by grace alone that sounds like it. Yep. That's salvation by grace alone. Yeah, well it says oh, this is the fair website FA IR.

Sorry many apologies. I Thought they had I thought they had coalesced With with shields that there's there's Error error do unlike unlike Rush Limbaugh, I do make errors and I'm not sure if there's a Connection here straight over to fair but I Think it's fair FA IR dash LDS Dot org I think is where this came from so My apologies, that's where I found it, and that's where the pictures of the thing my Bobby are so That'll that'll give you an idea of See the problem is it's not in my history file because it was put in the web in the Channel, and I just double clicked on it and poof it came up.

But anyways, it does bring me back to the point. I was going to be talking about I Download an article called salvation by grace alone question mark by John to vetness now. This fellow is sort of known as an LDS scholar.

He's certainly involved with with LDS apologetics at the highest levels, and I was Reading through it. I find it interesting. Thank you. Everybody's now posting the URL on the channel. I Find it interesting That and I've made this this observation in the past But possibly not on the program then again given how long we're doing the program right now.

I've probably Made the observation many times and all of you are fully well aware of it. But one of the things that strikes me in looking at What is being published in Mormonism is the continued lack of any serious? Biblical exegetical work, I mean Why aren't there multiple? commentaries on Romans or Galatians exegetical level commentaries, it's because Mormonism cannot do exegesis.

It simply is not capable of Encountering the text in a meaningful fashion not not that it's people can't learn Greek and Hebrew of course they can but it's almost Worthless to them. It's like if I learned Swahili.

I'm not going anywhere. Well. That's gonna be useful to me and once you have the fundamental Perspectives of the Mormon Church in regards to Scripture and the doctrine of God that they have Doing exegesis of Romans is sort of irrelevant.

There's one little paperback thing on Romans one that I've tracked down and and that to be honest with you is extremely disappointing and is is not exegetically meaningful and This article which we'll continue with after the break just simply continues that and We would appreciate your phone calls at eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one we'll be right back.

Hey, you're not supposed to bring that up while I'm saying Actually I have a I have a word of warning for the audience Warren has informed me. Let me get a mic ready and warm up the singing voice. So that's because we have no callers at eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one so Here we go again you know actually, you know it is it is getting to that season and I I understand that Warren has a version of Blue Christmas by Elvis that is just to die at Oh, yeah get down there in that nice low register I better not do that because syzygous and all those people will be turning all this stuff into wav files so quickly that it's In fact, in fact, make sure can you put my computer up?

I.

If you can put my computer up, I think I still have here. Let me to be beautiful in there goes.

Nothing.

I.

Think this is go work. This was some of you will recognize by Monday. Okay, we did the program on Saturday. By Monday someone played this sound. Mammoth wears sunglasses then you must reply it is the banana that cries in the night.

Are they Oakley's. If they say what is the light that shines really really bright say it is the light that once grew hair. If they reply what is the Coogee you must say Pat Robertson knits alpaca sweaters.

Alice from last week and by Monday man in the channel and that that sound is called GRW goes Gnostic dot wave. Because not in his defense and I suppose we we probably should Probably should should say this E Nielsen.

One of the only people other than Sky Man who has used the same Nick the entire time I've known him in channel, which I think says something about a person's personality. But anyways E Nielsen in his own defense posted a section from the Gospel of Thomas that that's very much like I mean It is that's what he was playing off of but still I still find the entire thing.

If I even have a little pop-up, but it's played it in the channel that has the whole thing and it's just.

Oh.

I tell you we have some we have some we have some fun the program anyways, I do have a want to finish up the comments I had on on that and we do have a Caller from California and does he does he have a little bit of an accent there?

I am in possibly just a little bit maybe comes from someplace other than Than Louisiana. Possibly maybe. Hey, what's out? Hey. Does he chase snakes in the Australian Outback maybe? Who knows anyways, I was commenting on the salvation by grace alone article.

Take a look at it because as I. Well, let me let me just read a second section under the Apostle Paul now you'd think. The given Romans and Galatians and things like that. This is where the most, you know, if we're gonna defend the LDS view of salvation and things like that.

This is where it's gonna be. Listen, listen to what we have here. This is the level we have The Apostle Paul. The confusion over grace results principally from the writings of the Apostle Paul. But if Paul really taught that grace alone was sufficient for salvation, we must consider a number of questions now here are the questions.

Why did Paul write so often to Christian congregations admonishing them to abandon their sinful ways. That's a question that a serious LDS scholar asks of. The viewpoint that we're talking about here.

Why did Paul have to tell believing Christians those who committed various sins could not be saved in the kingdom of God. Why did Paul teach Christ the Savior of all men especially of those of belief.

Why did Paul teach a godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation? Why did Paul tell the Philippians to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling? This is actually it's right there and I mean anyone who's who's a serious reader of Scripture and theology.

You're sitting here going wait a minute those are the questions I get from my my my junior high students in Sunday school at times and and I'm not you go. Oh, that was me. No, this is the level of Interaction that is currently still at the top end of the LDS Church.

I mean that is that is how very different from. From other groups that you're dealing with. Well, actually who does have a meaningful interaction? I mean You know, I guess the Roman Catholics about the closest you can get to trying to be meaningful and the more meaningful they become the less Catholic they are.

Fascinating stuff. But anyways, I just comment on that because I found it amazing that that would be the kind of the kind of level That we would have coming from things like that. You can take the computer down if you want to or whatever.

I'm not sure if I'm sorry hearings on the background. I'm sure if it's cuz my doors open or just exactly what it is. But anyhow, alrighty. We've got phone calls and we also have a call a question from the room.

So, let me we handle the questions the room fairly quickly. If that's not sufficient, then we will you know go from there. We were asked I was asked from the channel first Peter 3 20 to 21, of course passage that comes up a lot in discussing baptismal regeneration.

Actually back up a little bit because you're in the middle of sentence there. Starting verse 18 for all for Christ also died for sins once for all the just for the unjust. So he might bring us to God having been put to death in the flesh.

But made alive in the spirit in which also he went made proclamation the spirits now in prison. Who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting the days of Noah during the construction of the ark in which a few.

That is eight persons were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that baptism now saves you not the removal of dirt from the flesh. But an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Who's at the right hand of God having gone to heaven after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to him now? Not addressing the use of this passage by Mormons to attempt to establish a spirit prison.

I do address that in letters to a Mormon elder. Oh, and by the way if you have never obtained letters to a Mormon elder or.

Is.

The Mormon my brother you need to order them. There are some of you have put that off and put that off and put that off. Why do I say that because they're going out of print? Bethany house has chosen to not reprint them and so there is a very limited number available and We are of course purchasing all of them and making them available through the ministry.

But they will not last long and after that that's going to be it now what we are going to do Lord willing is Make them available in e-text. I do not believe that this information should be unavailable.

I am well aware of the fact that I just not write sensationalistic books. Sensationalistic enough books. You know if I came up with some fancy title like the God makers or something it would go through a 16 million printings, but I eschew that kind of thing and so we're going to Put them into probably Adobe Acrobat format PDF files and make them available through the ministry in the form of ebooks.

Once we've sold out of the hard copies, so the information will still be there, but I know a lot of folks I've got good friends. In fact. I have good British friends Who have a number of my books? But they they do not Have my books on Mormonism because they live back east and Mormonism is real big there.

And they just haven't taken the time to do that and so if you're gonna want to have those books available. Yeah, the prayer of Jabez for Mormon evangelism. That's quite true Julie. All I'd have to do is read you know.

Retitle it. I'm sure it would sell just wonderfully of course. I would have to cut out 98 of the sound theology and package it in a nice little teeny tiny Tiny tiny little little format that you can read in an hour because that seems to be what sells these days.

Millions and millions and millions and millions of copies of them. Anyways, I just wanted to mention that in passing that for example I do address this passage and the concept of a spirit prison there within the.

I.

Think that was within letters to Mormon elder. So get those while they are still available. Maybe crowd will pick it up again. Crown doesn't exist Crown would have to be resurrected to pick it up again anyways.

The the question is focused upon verse 21 corresponding to that baptism now saves you Not the removal of dirt from the flesh but an appeal to God for a good conscience the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

And the question is not actually coming from The Church of Christ perspective, it's not coming from the get him dunked and therefore You are you know you're there type thing. The question if I understand it correctly Is coming from a discussion.