To Cliche or not to Cliche (Part 2)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry.

Mike Abendroth here. It is Tuesday. Steve is in the casa. Mi casa es Esteban�s casa. Si, como no.

Bienvenidos a los Estados Unidos.

Steve and I were just talking off-air about a certain topic, and it reminded me, Steve, of the story when I used to carpool with some other families up to a Christian private school, and we would pass a Catholic church on a regular basis.

I think it was Our Lady of the Lake. You know, there's all kinds of. Did she have a sword?

No. You don't remember that? No, I do not. From King Arthur? No. Yeah, it was the Lady of the Lake who gave him the. I didn't know that. See?

Okay. And so, who sang Cats in the Cradle? It's Harry Chafin, of course. I don't think I liked any of his songs except that. Really? Yeah.

Oh, I like W-O-L-D. I am the morning DJ on W-O-L-D-D-D-D.

Don't know that. Oh, yeah. Is that some kind of Werewolves of London takeoff? No. Okay. There's only one Warrens, Yvonne. I actually listen to him once in a while still, selectively. Yeah, selectively.

So, we're on our way up to the Lady of the Lake, we're actually going to the school, and so it was my turn to drive, so I had my kids and some, I think two other families' kids in the car. And so, they all knew I was a pastor, and so I wanted to give them a little object lesson.

And so, we pulled over, we were early, we pulled over, I had a van, some old windbag, I mean, windstar, a Ford, and we pulled over and there was, of course, a statue of Mary there. After all, she's the Lady of the Lake.

Was she holding a sword? Sorry, I'll let go of the sword now. I think she was holding some bacteria or something from the lake, they were doing some alkaline testing. Okay. And so, I said, all right, let's get out of the car, all the kids out of the car, and then we walked over to the little Mary kiosk.

It's kind of nice, you pull up and there's a variety of kiosks you can go to, you know, you go to St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City, they have a variety of kiosks, you know, a small one for Joseph, kind of medium-sized for Jesus, and then the one at the very back, the biggest one's for?

The big dog. Dog, yes. So, I said, all right, everybody out, and let's just sing a praise song to Mary, for she is worthy of our adoration and veneration. And so, let's just, instead of singing, he is exalted, let's sing, she is exalted, and I will praise her, and let's just sing and hop back in the car.

Those kids looked at me like, what are you doing? So, I began to sing and try to coach them along, and then I looked at them sternly and I said, children, obey your parents, for this is right. And then my kids are like, in the Lord, dad.

All right, hop back into the car, let's go. And then I told them why the object lesson existed and what I was doing. Well, do you think I heard back from the parents on that one?

Probably. Pastor Mike tried to get us to sing to Mary.

Pastor Mike, yeah, Pastor Mike has some idols in his house for teaching illustrations, and I don't like it. Actually, I do get some responses. They're like, you have some of those plastic idols in the house?

I said, yeah, they're laying on their face over in the corner to try to teach my kids an object lesson. Is that wrong? A bunch of plastic? What's different? You've got money in your wallet and you worship that.

We set them up every night and every morning when we wake up, face down.

Just the torsos around. Steve, last time we were doing a little bit of, you know, cliches that people probably shouldn't use according to Christian, P-I-A-T-T, and he has some good ones, and then he's got some….

How do you know it's a he? Well, he said he and his wife, Amy, but…. How do you know it's a he? Hey, this is the 21st century, pal. Steve, before we get into this, now we're just doing, you know, rambling radio, you know, flow of thought.

That Federalist article about the regrets of transgendered people was so sad.

It was. I actually sent it to a friend of mine who says he has a…. I don't really know. He says he has a transgendered son. And so I go, you know, and I just said, you know, there are a lot of names in this article because this guy's a writer.

And I said, there are a lot of names in this article that you'll recognize because I recognize them. And I said, it's very thought-provoking, you know, when you see somebody like as famous as Renee Richards, who used to be Dr. something or other Richards, and then had the surgery and….

Richard. Yeah, Richard. Richard Richards? I think so. Anyway, played tennis and all that stuff. And him saying that, I wish there was a drug that could have taken away the urges and the feelings that I had way back then rather than going through everything that I've gone through.

And I'm a second-class quote-unquote woman. And you know, people ask me for my advice, and I basically steer them clear of it. You know, don't do what I did. Yeah.

People would say in the article that instead of being a man who's turned into a woman through transgendered surgery, I just, I'm a man without my male anatomy. Yeah.

And it really was sad. You know, all the people with regrets and just sad. I mean, as a, you know, I'm sure a lot of people would read it and just go, those people are sick, those people are what, but as a pastor, I just read it and I just consider their soul and it's really sad.

It's mournful. You just read it and you just, you have nothing but compassion and sorrow for them, even in the midst of their sin.

Clichés About Death, Angels, and Christian Homegoing

So, let's talk a little bit about this list, cliches that Christians should never use. We disagree, but this is kind of fun to talk about. How about, God needed another angel in heaven, so he called him or her home?

Hate that. First of all, the number of angels I believe is fixed. There aren't going to be any more angels.

You know what, I think even more specifically, Steve, the angel number is not only fixed and finite, it is also revealed on the head of a needle. Thank you, Dr. Aquinas. Steve, I have to say, why the fascination, besides the guy as an intellect, why the fascination for Aquinas?

I see so many people who love to quote Aquinas. Why is that?

Well, I'm going to give you my own personal theory. I think the more impenetrable you're reading, the more apt people are to study you. So, you know, if you want to be studied and quoted, you know, centuries from now, just don't make any sense.

And that's the, I think that's the fascination that people have with Aquinas. He speaks in riddles and circles. And I find him about as, you know, fascinating as a hedgerow.

But Steve, I thought to myself, I'm a pastor. I want to be well read. And so how, where do you start off? Because Aquinas was so prolific in his writing. I'm not going to read the Summa and all that stuff.

And so his commentary on Revelation. I know I didn't do that either. It was a short commentary. But what I did is I thought I'll read a biography because then that'll at least introduce me to a few of his thoughts and quotes.

You know, if you read Henry Benton's, Here I Stand, the biography of Luther, you get to know Luther. And so anyway, I read it and couldn't even figure out the biography, let alone Summa.

Humanly speaking, he's about as inscrutable as you can get, right?

Crazy. So angels in heaven, we know the sentiment, but God does call people home. He does call them home. And for the Christian, we know our ultimate home is in heaven. Our citizenship is in heaven. Philippians chapter three.

And we are aliens. We are strangers. We are pilgrims. And we... Waiting on our wings. Did you ever watch Touched by an Angel? I never saw one episode.

I probably, well, I was more apt. I think I might've seen one, but I was more apt to watch, you know, Highway to Heaven. Don't know that either. Oh, Michael Landon. Oh, okay. Was it good? It wasn't so bad.

I mean, you know, I was not a Christian when I was watching it, so I'd probably watch it now and just go, well, that was dumb. You know, I actually think Highway to Heaven was kind of like the forerunner to Touched by an Angel.

You know, they sort of just took it out a little bit further. But as I recall, Michael Landon was kind of an angel sort of figure. But, you know.

Now, when Paul talks about this idea in 2 Corinthians chapter five, it's amazing to me where he says in chapter five, verse one, we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling. If indeed by putting it on, we may not be found naked. For while we were still in this tent, we groan, being burdened, not that we would only be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that which is mortal may be swallowed up in life.

And then he talks about, we know that while we were at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. And so we know we'd rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So part of that calling us home is true.

It's just the angel part we don't want. Right. Okay. I agree. Steve, what about another one? Are you saved?

A Christian doesn't like that. I prefer, you know, especially for evangelical purposes to ask people, are you insured? Evangelism purposes. Yeah. I, are you saved? Well, I mean, I think it's, I agree with him only because most people have no idea what it means, you know, so.

In this post-Christian culture, save from what or from whom? I love the story of R .C. Sproul. He was a professor, probably at Pittsburgh Seminary, walking across campus and some lady went up to eagerly evangelize him.

It must not have been at seminary. It must've been someplace else, trying to evangelize him. And she said, are you saved? And he kind of played along with it. And ultimately he talked about how you're not saved from your sins, ultimately, not saved from hell, ultimately, but saved from God himself and his wrath.

And so how'd you like to try to evangelize R .C. Sproul?

Well, you know, I, I think it's probably something she didn't try to do twice.

She's a quick learner. Now here is one that I agree with. The Lord never gives someone more than they can handle. I agree that's not a good thing to say because I, I think it's true. He never gives you more temptation than you can handle, but he gives you trials that you can't handle so that you are forced to run to him and be dependent on him.

I never say to people, well, the Lord will never give you more than you can handle.

Yeah, I mean, for a variety of reasons. One is it's of absolutely no value to that person. You know, while they're feeling overwhelmed, you just kind of put your arm on their shoulder and just say, you know what, don't worry about it because God will never give you more than you can handle.

Really? Because I'm not sleeping, I can't eat, and you know, that doesn't help them.

That doesn't help at all. God will never let you walk a mile in my shoes.

You know, it depends. I mean, if you're like size nine, then that's absolutely true because I can't get into your shoes. Mm hmm.

God's Sovereignty, Human Suffering, and Pastoral Care

America was founded as a Christian nation.

See, no, I, I understand what he's saying there. I just kind of, you know, because they, a lot of them were deists and whatnot, Benjamin Franklin and Jefferson and whatnot. But, you know, I, I think what's foolish is people use that same idea, you know, that you shouldn't say that, to say that somehow America was created in a religious vacuum, that it was all religious.

Well, it wasn't, you know, states had their own official religion, you know, and it was a very, it was a very kind of religious country. And it's based on certain values. You know, like, I remember, I learned this in high school.

I thought this was incredible. In a secular high school, my teacher said, man is inherently evil. That's the, that's the foundation of the constitution. And I said, I thought that was very insightful.

I mean, looking back on it, even more insightful, because that is why we have checks and balances in the constitution. You can't trust anybody.

It's true. How about it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve? I'm really big on that. I wasn't in the Garden of Eden.

So, I kind of like that one. You know, he says, you know, it's a little joke, and it's used to use, or to prove the superiority of opposite sex unions over same sex unions. Well, I just think, yeah, I mean, reading here what he says, here's the thing.

If you really believe that the first and only two people on the planet at one point were Adam and Eve, who did their kids marry and have babies with? This, my friends, is incest. Okay, all I can say to my good friend Christian, whom I've never met, is you don't really understand the Bible.

I'm actually surprised, and maybe this is a no-co moment, if he still believes what he wrote back then a year ago. I'm really, how can you be a pastor and not understand that pre-Mosaic law, here is Adam and Eve, and here's what's going on, where did Cain get his wife, and all these questions.

If you don't know the answer to these questions, and you don't know where you're going to, then I don't know how you can instruct others. It's like physician, you know, teach yourself first. This is basic.

This is 101 stuff. Yeah, that's bad. Steve, I was taking Tao Friesen, the preacher from Berlin, around Boston the other day, and I was with Christian Andresen and my wife and a couple of my kids, and we went to Old South Church.

You know, they have Old North Church there.

Old West Church, Old East Church, which is now underwater.

It's part of Logan. And I walked in, and I was talking to Tao, and I went up to the curator, the docent, the person behind the desk. What are they called? Security guard? Waiter. And I said, Hi, my name is Mike Avendroth.

I have a friend from Germany here, and we're both pastors, and I wanted to be able to go up into the pulpit and just take a quick picture, but I just want your permission to go past those barriers, that barrier deal there, that yellow tape, police tape.

And he said, that's fine, but our sniper will take you out.

Because, and he said, please, but make it fast and don't let any other tourists go up there. That's what he told me. And so I got my picture taken up there, and so did Tao, because George Whitfield had preached in that pulpit.

So that was kind of nice. We got pictures of that. So then as I walked out, I saw the Weight Watchers brochure that meets there at the church on Wednesday night, and then I also picked up a little flyer.

And this is one of the main flyers of the church, not one of many, but like the main one. And it says on the front, gay, lesbian, straight, bisexual, intersex, trans, out, closeted, pause, questioning, transgender, asexual, cis, partnered, single, married, ally, pansexual, non-gender conforming.

And then at the very bottom, God loves you. And that's at Old South Church in Boston. And at the very back, it says, if you're struggling to understand yourself, a friend or a family member, and would like to talk one-on-one with a member of our clergy about your relationship with God, call 617.

So I was hoping, Steve, that this was a, hey, if you're one of these things, God loves you with a love of creation, talk to the clergy so the gospel can be presented to you. That's what I was hoping. But when I opened it up, what do you think I found?

Something entirely different. God loves you just as you are. He doesn't want you to change. You don't have to change for Him. You're perfect. It said here, I grew up in church, but I didn't know I was gay or come out until I was a teenager.

And by that time, I knew Old South was an accepting church. Daniel. Kathy said, unconditional love kind of church. Caroline said, an inclusive church. And William said, my prayers were answered. LGBT community, da, da, da.

This is church. My sexual orientation does not define me at Old South Church. Here, I am a child of God, worthy of the same love and respect as everyone else. Now, should we love and respect people who struggle with a variety of sins?

Yes, because they're image bearers. They're made in the image of God. Because welcome to the club. I'm a bigger sinner than these people are. So that's not the issue. This is cloak and dagger stuff. What about when it says, my sexual orientation doesn't define me at Old South Church?

I think I agree with that. Sinner should define you.

Well, but I would kind of put it back the other way in that you have defined yourself, you know, by these terms. And now you want me to say, well, it doesn't define you. Well, then what's the issue?

Right. And then it says here, I am a child of God, worthy of the same love. Well, we're not worthy before God at all as sinners. We have no claim on God. That's what makes grace so wonderful. But we don't believe in the liberal fatherhood of God for every person and brotherhood of men.

We believe that you're a child of God if you've repented and believed on the risen Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, the sacrifice for sin. That's all. So I wasn't too happy after I walked out. I don't believe.

Exclusive Salvation and the Way of Christ

All right. What's going on here with Christian Piat next? Do you want to pick one, Steve?

Well, we'll see. Oh, yeah. Well, let me see. I don't want to do one of those. Well, I like 21. Christianity is the only way to God or heaven. So you know what?

I didn't know. John 14 .6 was a slogan. It was amazing.

Yeah. And one that should not be repeated. Don't tell people Jesus is the only way.

Maybe my all-time favorite proclamation of John 14 .6 where Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through him, me, when Jesus said it.

Where did you get this? Because he says, yes, there are texts to support a theology of exclusive salvation. Oh, yeah, like the words of Jesus himself. But there are also some to support a more universalist notion of salvation.

Well, see, first I thought maybe Christian was on our side, and then now we've never the twain shall meet kind of thing. That's quite bad. So what happens is when that lady stood up to Oprah and said, but Jesus said I'm the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me.

That was my favorite time that John 14 .6 was quoted by the lady in the audience at Oprah when Oprah was doing her who knows what.

Grace, Human Sinfulness, and God's Sovereign Control

How about this one? There but for the grace of God go I. He doesn't like that one. And I'm like, I do like that. Because we're not for the restraining grace of God, I could be a lot worse than I am. So I do like that.

Steve, don't you think it's true, and both of us, you know, we're on our journey with God, we're on our paths. But as I mature in Christ, I mean, I still want to be much more mature than I am. But as I'm maturing, I'm becoming more cognizant of the fact that it's not I'm the Christian and everybody else is the sinful ones as unbelievers.

I'm thinking to myself, you know, it's Romans 1 and 2. I can judge the unrighteous to be unrighteous and they have depraved minds and they follow false gods. And then I make that judgment and I condemn myself because I know it's right and wrong.

And yet I still do the wrong thing even as a redeemed person. And so it becomes very difficult as we grow in grace. I want to often and regularly say if it wasn't for the grace of God, I'd keep doing what I used to do.

I'd be like that. That's a mature good thing for a Christian to say.

Well, here, number 29, I think is a good one. Because it's a good one because he says we shouldn't say it. And I'm like, oh, I think we should say it. How about this? God is in control. Another way of saying that would be what?

God is sovereign. So, he says this raises a very fundamental problem of theodicy, that is the problem of evil. And I'm like, I don't think so. God is in control. Does that give me an issue where I have to say, oh, what about the problem of evil?

No, I just mean God is in control. And is he in control of evil? God is in control. You know, what do you want me to say? There are bad things that happen, but God cannot stop them? Well, I'm not going to say that because he can.

Steve, Christian says here on number 29 that you just read, telling someone who was raped, abused, tortured, neglected that God was in control during that experience likely is enough to incent that person to turn from the concept of God forever.

Now, here's the thing. I don't know what person in their right mind, if they met someone who was tortured and then said God's in control of that. I don't think that's the default thing. But what good would it do to say to someone, do you know what?

God, you've been tortured, but God wasn't in control of that. That was outside of the purview of God's sovereign control. What good does that do? The alternative scares me more, in other words.

Well, it does no good, but I'm like, okay, here's the real question. You know, like you said in the beginning, why would you just go up to somebody and start talking about that? I mean, if I want to comfort them, which I do, I'm not going to start with either God is in control or God's not in control.

Neither one of them is appropriate to kind of helping this person walk through that. That's not going to be my initial comment. I'm going to try to empathize with them, come alongside with them, you know, and gradually over time as we sort of walk through it, then we'll start talking about the Lord and how do we get our eyes off of what, this horrible thing that happened and, you know, move forward.

And how can we help people with their problems? What I try to do, Steve, is I try to ultimately and eventually direct their thoughts back to who God is. I want them to think about who God is instead of themselves, instead of their problems.

We can't get help when we go to the inside of ourselves because there's no help there. And so our help comes from the outside. Our help comes from the Lord. And so I try to get them to think about who God is.

And that includes His sovereignty. And that is something I talked to somebody a while ago, and they were dealing with an issue. And I listened, and I listened, and I listened, and I empathized. And I was close to tears a couple times.

And then at the very end, I said, now, I'm a pastor, and so I have to help you think through this problem theologically. And so let's think about you, your response, who God is, what would be a better response, and how repentance and confession and forsaking sin, Proverbs 28, gives you mercy.

And so let's work through that. Eventually, I had to say it. I wouldn't be a pastor if I did anything less.

Yeah, it's just, I mean, all those situations are hard. I mean, I remember once when I was the victim of a crime, even a small crime. Somebody stole my car stereo. I mean, I was bugged. I was really bugged.

And that was just a small thing. And you just think, you know, how much more if you've been raped, if you've been kidnapped, you know, all these terrible things. But you don't, you just don't start out, God is in control.

Just don't worry your pretty little head about it. You know, that's just wrong.

Well, what I would suggest you do is read Acts 2 and Acts 4, that Jesus Christ, the worst sin ever committed in the history of the universe, worse than rape and torture and neglect all combined, Jesus, the sinless one, died on behalf of all those who had believed and God was in control.

That's right. Totally sovereign.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

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