Dead Men Walking Podcast with Dr. Michael Brown: The Tolerant Intolerance of the LGBTQ Agenda

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Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and all of the Fascinating Subjects in Between, Broadcasting from an

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Undisclosed Location, Dead Men Walking starts now! Well, hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking.

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I'm your host, Greg, and to my left is… Hey guys, it's Jason. Hey, Jason's here too, and this is a podcast where we love

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Ephesians 2. Yes, we are dead in our sins, but guess what? Raised to heavenly and priestly places by the grace of God.

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Well, we usually do a little bit of banter back and forth, but we have someone on the line that we want to get to. This is very exciting for us.

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He was someone who was instrumental in my sanctification as the Lord saved me when

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I was 24, said the Sinner's Prayer at 7, got saved at 24. Got saved at 9, 10, 11, 12, right?

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You got saved once a year, huh? Yeah, right. Okay. Well, he's an author, he's a professor, he's an apologist, he's a radio host of nationally syndicated show

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Line of Fire, and he has a new book out right now, which I picked up called Will We Pass the

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Trump Test? I'm about halfway through it. I thought it was very interesting, and we have on the line today,

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Dr. Michael Brown. How are you, sir? Doing great.

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Great to be with you. By the way, when you started off with your undisclosed location, which of course

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I will not disclose because I don't even know where it is, but when I started doing my radio show years ago, the

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Line of Fire radio show, it was from the basement of our building, and it was a former bomb shelter.

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So I would start off by saying, you know, broadcasting from a former bomb shelter, and then one day

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I turned on Mark Levin, and that's how he started his, of course, he was famous on radio years before I went on the air, so I thought people would think

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I was borrowing from him. Oh, no. We're setting the record straight. We now broadcast, yeah. We broadcast from an alien spaceship.

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Well, we'll set the record straight right here on Dead Men Walking, Dr. Michael Brown had that first, Mr. Mark Levin, and we'll argue that.

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But listen, so we wanted to have you on, I know you just have a few minutes, but I read an article that you had posted, and it's all over, for the listeners, if you want to Google the title, which

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I believe it says, if you think we're exaggerating, just look to Norway. And it was very interesting to me because as someone who's listened to you for well over 10 years, and some of the subject matter that you talk about, you're kind of at the forefront of this, of not only

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LGBTQ, I don't even know if we say Q anymore, I think they dropped that. I don't know. Heck, I don't even think they want you questioning anymore.

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You have to be all in or all out, but anyway, you know, the forefront of a Christian worldview with this, and also talking about some of the changes we're seeing in society and laws and things like that.

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The article goes on to, you know, talk about how hate speech is actually being included in the penal code over there.

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Heck, in California just last year, Governor Newsom said any state employees that misgendered someone could receive a fine and up to 90 days in jail.

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So it's very real, and it is here in America, and I was hoping that maybe you could just talk about that for a few minutes.

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So I find that most, I don't want to say most, but I'd say majority of liberal or progressive

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Christians seem to think this isn't an issue. Don't worry. They just want everyone to be equal. We want to all just be nice, just say the words that they want us to say and everything's going to be fine.

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Where I think maybe you and I and our listeners might see a little bit different story. What do you think? Yeah, it was 16 years ago that God first laid on my heart that LGBT activism, really the

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T wasn't major there. The Q could either be questioning or queer, so it is widely used today, the

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Q word. But when God laid it on my heart to begin to focus on these issues, it was a bit of a surprise.

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It was 2004. I don't come out of homosexuality in terms of my own background or testimony.

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I never had a particular burden to reach out to those in the gay and lesbian community.

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Never felt called to do that. And here I feel strongly called by God to begin to deal with an aggressive agenda in our society.

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And I quickly realized this 2004 that gay activism was the principal threat to freedom of religion, speech and conscience in America.

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I quickly saw that those who came out of the closet wanted to put us in the closet.

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Now, at the same time that I was dealing with the agenda, I asked God to give me his heart for the people and the burden on my heart is reach out and resist, reach out to the people with compassion, resist the agenda with courage.

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But there is a real agenda. It is to marginalize those who do not affirm and celebrate

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LGBTQ activism. It is to brand you as a bigot and a hater and a Hitler and KKK and Taliban and ISIS, whoever the newest bad guys are.

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That's who you are if you don't believe that Ruth Jenner is really a woman. And on and on it goes.

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And we've seen this rising. It's an epidemic level on college campuses.

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I was teaching some young people at a retreat, a campus retreat some years ago.

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They come from different parts of America. And after I shared on these issues, I asked them, what's the atmosphere on campus?

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And one young lady said, well, what do I do? He said, I go to a liberal school and my field of study.

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My major is the most liberal in the program. And basically every professor, when you start every class, new semester, he said,

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OK, go around the room and tell me your PGPs, your preferred gender pronouns. So you may want to be known as Zer or Z or them, even though you're an individual.

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And everyone has to conform to this or else. In Norway now, it is officially hate speech.

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If you were to, say, deadname someone, in other words, call Bruce Jenner Bruce Jenner rather than Caitlyn Jenner, and you were to say something publicly, that could be considered hate speech.

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You could potentially go to jail for three years. For some years now in New York City, it's been the law that if a man comes to work and identifies as a woman, that everyone on the job must now refer to that person by the female name and with female pronouns.

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And this person must be able to use the ladies room. Now, even though it's a biological male, you don't need any proof from a psychiatrist or a psychologist or a doctor or anything.

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Just the person declaring. And if you don't go along with it, you can be fined up to two hundred fifty thousand dollars.

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In Canada, back in 2016, Professor Jordan Peterson, University of Toronto professor of psychology, this before he came to international fame as a public intellectual, when he was told you must conform.

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In other words, if a student wants to be addressed a certain way, you must address them with that with that name, with that pronoun.

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He had studied totalitarian regimes for years and he thought, you're not going to tell me what to say. You're not going to tell me what words

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I can say or I must say. And he said, no way will I conform to this universe. He said, fine, if you go to court, we don't stand with you.

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I mean, that's how extreme things are. When I was in Canada last year, I met the man involved with this particular case.

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His daughter is 14. From what I understood, he and his wife were separated. She's 14 years old and she believes that she's male.

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He's 15 now. And at that point, she wanted to begin to undergo hormone treatments to begin to change her so that when she's a little older, she could have sex change surgery.

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This would also stop the female development from going any further. 14 years old.

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He doesn't want her to do that. It goes to the court. The court stands with the 14 year old against the father's wishes.

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And I met the man. I met him face to face. This is not some myth. And then the court said, if you refer to her by her female name, obviously, they would say refer to him.

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Right, right. Refer to her by her female name or use a female pronoun with reference to her in public or in private.

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You will go to jail. Now, of course, he was going on doing what was right.

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He was ignoring this. But this is this is what it has come to. It is all around the world.

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You know, you have a street preacher in England and he's preaching a message and doesn't mention homosexuality, doesn't say a word about it.

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Someone comes up and questions him directly. What do you say about this? Well, the Bible teaches this, but Jesus died for all sinners.

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Next thing, the guy's arrested. Wow. And he's got to defend himself over these charges. So it's happening in different countries.

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And those who were the oppressed, despised, marginalized minority, now that they have more power in society and have allies working with them, again, from their perspective, this is the new civil rights movement.

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Joe Biden said in January of this year, make no mistake about it, transgender rights are the new civil rights of the day.

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So it used to be gay rights, now transgender rights. So we don't want to be bigots.

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We've made terrible mistakes already with race issues and slavery and segregation.

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We don't want to do that again. So this is now presented as the new civil rights movement. And if you dare take issue with it, you might be bounced out of your college.

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You may be bounced out of your job. I know people that this has happened to personally, not just somewhere or I saw it on the internet.

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People I know personally have lost jobs, have lost opportunities, have been put out of programs.

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This is simply because they stood by what was right and held to biblical convictions.

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Yeah, absolutely. And what's so frustrating is you've been talking about this intelligently and biblically for decades,

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I feel like. I feel like I've known about you talking about this issue for at least 15 years. And you don't want to see what you've been saying come true because what you've been saying is a warning.

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But at the same time, we're seeing exactly what you've been talking about. And I feel, and maybe you agree and you can comment on this.

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I mean, we seem to be like we're very close to accepting those things here in the United States to where it is less than a generation away for us to totally give up a religious freedom and first amendment rights and say, yeah, it's hate speech if you misgender someone.

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Yeah, it's hate speech if you talk about someone from the pulpit and you preach biblical theology and doctrine.

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Would you agree that that's where we're progressing? And you see that coming if something doesn't change? Oh, yeah.

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I mean, we're already well on the way there. No exaggeration whatsoever.

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And look, let me say this finally. My wife, Nancy, is a gift from God to me. We love each other dearly.

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We've been married since 1976. And one reason she's a gift to me is that she's completely utterly unimpressed by virtually anything

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I've ever done in my entire life. Yes. And, uh, that's a character of a good wife.

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We have two like that over here too. Yeah. All she wants me to be is, you know, a man of God that's full of the spirit and walks like Jesus.

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Amen. If I, if I said to her, honey, this new book, I wrote it in three weeks, she would say, well, you couldn't have been praying that much.

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My wife, my wife, Nancy, a few years ago said to me, you need to write an article.

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I told you. So she said, you need to put down all this, my wife, Nancy, all the things you said would happen that have already happened.

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And finally, I got to go. I said, I wrote that article a few months ago. So if people question it, if they look in my book,

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A Queer Thing Happened to America, where I lay out, this is 2011, but I began working on in 2005.

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So it was working on, on and off over a six year period. And I lay out what's coming and what's going to happen in the schools and what's going to happen in society.

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So has that happened or, or not? Well, let me just give you some recent examples.

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Abigail Schreier writes a book about the irreparable harm that young women are doing to themselves.

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They identify as trans as they, the hormones that sterilize them for life and the sex change surgery.

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And then they're 18, 19 to 20. They realized they made terrible mistakes. It's a well -written, well -researched book published by Regnery.

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And Regnery is the leading conservative publisher in America that goes back to 1947 and became famous publishing books like by William F.

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Buckley. So they, what they do with their books, they advertise, right? One of the things you do is advertise on, advertise on Amazon.

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Amazon said, no, we will not allow you to advertise this book. Now they didn't ban it, but they said, you cannot advertise it to physicians or anti -scientific harmful, whatever arguments they come up with that you get every kind of radical book on the other side, right?

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That's okay. But this one, you can't advertise. You say, well, at least I didn't sell it. Hang on. All the books of Dr.

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Joseph Nicolosi, all right. PhD, Thomas Aquinas Counseling Center was probably the lead guy in helping men with unwanted same -sex attraction.

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Kind of a father of a counseling movement passed away suddenly around the age of 60 couple of years ago.

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Well, what happens to him? Amazon removes all of his books, his books and others by those talking about how you don't have to stay with the same -sex attraction, how you can be changed.

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The books have been removed, banned. I have a friend who put up a

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Facebook page, just quoting what the Bible says about homosexual practice, Facebook removed his page.

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I mean, I could go on and on. The censoring is there. I had a friend the other day had his

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Twitter account shut down, you know, good sized account shut down because of things he was saying about transgender.

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Now look, I'm all for compassionate speech. I'm all for being very careful in how we say things and make it clear that there's an agenda that we're opposing.

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We care about every individual and we recognize that all of us come to God broken and in need every single one of us and that there's more than enough sin in the heterosexual church to keep us repenting for the rest of our lives.

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That's not the issue. The issue is the censorship. The issue is the intolerance in the name of tolerance.

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Some years ago, when the Gay Pride event in Charlotte, North Carolina, near where I live, the

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Gay Pride event was growing. And I began to see different local businesses say we're sponsoring the event and national companies saying we're sponsoring the event.

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So I reached out to different ones of them. And I said, hey, this is a very divisive event in our community.

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Maybe it's best to stay neutral. We're not asking you to preach the Bible. Maybe it's best to stay neutral.

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And they write back, oh, no, no, we want to stand with all of our customers and all everyone that shops with us and does business with us, et cetera.

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So I thought, OK, let's take the next step here. So there was one Caribou Coffee, you know, national chain, not as big as Starbucks, but a national chain.

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And they announced for the first time they were going to be sponsoring the event. So I wrote to them and same thing.

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I said, I'm not asking you to put Bibles in your stores or Christian music playing, but have that neutrality in something like this because it's so divisive in our community.

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Oh, no, no, we want to stand with all the people in our community. So I thought, all right. I wrote them a letter and I said, we are going to be holding an event in Charlotte.

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It's going to be a pro -family, pro -life event. It's going to encourage abstinence for teens.

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It's going to stand for the sanctity of the womb. It's going to be a pro -marriage celebration. We have some local businesses that said to be part.

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You know, I asked some business friends, would you join in? Absolutely. I said, will you sponsor this? And they wrote back and they said, we will not work with you because we are inclusive.

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Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's literally what it says. They said, we found out more about who you are and et cetera.

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We will not work with you because you're inclusive. So in the name of tolerance, there is now an intense intolerance.

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In the name of being inclusive, they become exclusive. In the name of diversity, it is my way or the highway.

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And some years ago, probably at least five years ago, I was speaking to elementary school teachers.

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Two couples took me out for lunch after I spoke at a church on a Sunday morning in Florida. They were going to bring me to the airport.

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So two young couples and both of the wives taught in elementary school, one in first grade, one in the later grade.

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Both of them said to me, LGBTQ activism is all over our curricula, but we dare not say a word.

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Elementary school teachers, lest we lose our jobs. That was over five years ago. Unbelievable.

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So we are well on the way there. And if, in fact, there's a

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Biden administration with an equal Senate, so Kamala Harris would pass a deciding vote, you've got a real possibility of a more aggressive push.

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Because remember, in the minds of those on the left, this is the right thing. This is freedom. This is equality.

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This is non -discrimination. What it ends up is being the exact opposite in terms of people of faith.

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What we have to do is first and foremost, get God's heart for those we differ with, so that we have a heart of love and compassion.

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That's first and foremost. Secondly, we stand and speak regardless of cause or consequence.

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Well, you just cut me out at the knees there. That was my next question as we wrap up here is, how do

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Christians respond to this very specific agenda that's looking like it could have very harsh repercussions for us if we stand on truth, principle, and true biblical doctrine?

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Second part to that is, do you believe that there's a difference in how a pastor or a leader in the church or elder should be acting versus just a

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Christian? Or do we have the same commandment across the board? And what is that? I mean, how do we respond to this when, you know,

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I'm an elected official in my county. I'm a county commissioner. And we've had things come before our board that wants to start to kind of push a certain agenda.

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We have a pretty conservative board. We voted it down. But even at the local level, I'm seeing things where they really want to indoctrinate in the way we speak and the way we act and even really infringe on religious liberty.

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And I'm gonna come to, you know, I come to that choice all the time when I have to vote or, you know, head a committee or whatever it is.

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And I'm just wondering for Christians out there, what is the response? Just speak in love and compassion, but stand on truth.

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What does that look like as we wrap up? Yeah. So again, we start with asking God for his heart.

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That's one. Then two, we get educated. We make sure we understand what scripture really says.

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My book, Can You Be Gay and Christian is helpful in that regard. Outlasting the Gay Revolution is a newer book from a few years back that lays out a principle stance we can take, which shares what's happening in society.

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So first, get God's heart. Second, get educated biblically. And then what's happening in the world around us. And then wherever we are, act accordingly.

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In other words, as an elected official, you can't just come in and say, well, the

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Bible says this. Right. And I'm conscious bound by the Bible. Okay, that's your personal choice, but you can't enforce that in the people of your county.

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What you can say is, hey, let's see where this goes. What's the trajectory? If we take this step, what's next?

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The same thing in our schools. When you see something happening that's contrary to your convictions, then as parents, you need to be actively involved with your kids, understand what they're taught, chat with them about lessons in school, look at the plan or the syllabi, whatever given out.

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And then if there are issues, you go talk to the schools about it. You talk to the teacher if they say, let's test this up to the administrator, then you go talk to the administrator.

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And if they don't hear, if they are within their legal rights to be doing what they're doing, then you pray. Maybe we're supposed to get on the school board.

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Maybe some of us should be elected to that. You know, whatever it is, just to be able to make a positive input.

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If we wanna leave the work to everybody else, well, I'm not gonna get involved, but then we can't criticize what everybody else does.

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So we get involved. We seek to reach people with the gospel because that's the biggest thing, people coming to know the

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Lord. And a pastor or leader should take the responsibility of equipping his people.

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That a pastor or leader should not leave the flock just, we don't know what to do.

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You say, well, as a pastor, I don't wanna get involved in political issues. I understand, but your family's living this world.

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And you got a family sitting there on the front row and their 14 -year -old girl just came out as lesbian and they don't know what to do about it.

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And you got the grandparents back there and their six -year -old grandson believes he's a girl and they don't know what to do about it.

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And you got a school teacher under pressure in her department to do things that violate her conscience, which she's gonna do.

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And then you got one of your elders with unwanted same -sex attraction who's afraid to tell anybody. So we need to have an environment where people are equipped.

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And by the way, just two things. If you wanna see an amazing movie, it's free, churches can host it.

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I had the privilege of being in the movie and hosting the overall narrative. It's really eye -opening, educational, biblically, theologically, culturally, scientifically.

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It's called In His Image. Go to inhisimage .movie. It's absolutely free. inhisimage .movie.

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It'll be eye -opening and inspiring as well to watch. And then if folks go to my website, askdrbrown .org,

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A -S -K -D -R brown .org, they will literally find thousands of resources, articles, videos, radio shows.

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And many of them, we unpack these issues. So just search for gay, for transgender, for whatever the subject is.

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You'll find a wealth of free material there. Get equipped and then wherever you are, be it in prayer, be it in supporting organizations that are on the front lines, be it standing as a witness yourself, say,

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Lord, how can I make a positive difference in today's society and be your witness? And trust me,

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God will find work for you to do. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Michael Brown. And isn't it great?

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I mean, there's a lot of stuff on the internet that isn't the greatest, but when you can stand on the shoulder of giants and just go to askdrbrown .com

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or whatever, just read all that material that he has gathered over 20 plus, 30 plus years. That is awesome.

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Well, we know you have to get going. We really appreciate you coming on the show and explaining that to us. And for our listeners, make sure you do check out those websites.

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Obviously, you can just put in Dr. Michael Brown on Google and he's gonna come up in the first three pages. The first three pages are all him and a lot of resources there, books on Amazon.

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I think you're still on Amazon. Your books are, that's good. But thank you so much. Yeah, we're still there somehow.

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Thank you so much for coming by. And listeners, be sure to check him out as well. And as always, God bless.