Matt Slick Live: June 20, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show, because yesterday we had a show.

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And if you want to give me a call today, all you got to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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And we had phone problems yesterday, yesterday was the 19th of June, today is June 20th.

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And so I just want to ask that if you want to give me a call, please do 877 -207 -2276.

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And hopefully everything should be fine, everything will work, okay? Because they had phone problems yesterday, and today they worked on them and everything is good.

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So, you know, praise God for that. Let's see if I got everything in here, there we go.

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I always forget one thing, almost always one thing, and I just did, so I should work now.

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All right, there we go. Hey, we got a call coming in. Hopefully the phones will be fine, they had problems yesterday, I was on their end, and that just happens.

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And yesterday I taught on Romans chapter 3, which I enjoyed, and then I talked to some more

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Roman Catholics last night. I really enjoy discussing things with Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.

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It's really grounding me in the truth of God's Word, and it's really amazing to me how utterly blinded they are, just incredibly blinded.

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The things that they will do, they worship the church, they serve the church. It's not

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Jesus, it's the church. And it's pathetic, it's bad. And where I prove that the

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Bible contradicts what they say about salvation, what the Catholic Church says, they don't care, they believe the church.

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It's just, it's bad. But anyway, I spent some time yesterday going through Romans 3 and 4, and also

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Galatians 2 and 3 and 5, and discussed a lot of stuff.

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All right, so there we go. I hope the sound is okay in StreamYard, Club Deck, and on Rumble, because it sounds good.

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It says there. Good, good, good. Okay, good. All right. Let's get to Danielle from North Carolina.

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Welcome, Danielle. You're on the air. Hi, Matt, I have a question.

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I have a friend who attended a church service, and they were speaking in tongues or worshiping in tongues, and the pastor was talking and speaking in tongues.

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And they approached my friend at some point during the service and asked if they had received the baptism of the

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Holy Spirit. And they said, well, I've recently been baptized.

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And they said, well, do you speak in tongues? And she said, no. So it started me looking into the scriptures, and I don't see anything that specifically talks about the baptism of the

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Holy Spirit other than the one baptism that believers do once they profess their faith.

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I thought you could help me with that. Sure. It sounds like your friend probably went to a

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United Pentecostal church. One of the ways of testing is to see how they pronounce the

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Holy Ghost. They'll say the Holy Ghost. And I don't know what. I don't know why, but that's just a cross pattern across them.

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And so I'm talking to somebody on the web, and they say, well, you've been baptized in the Holy Ghost. And then I go, oh, wait, what church do you go to?

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And invariably, they go to United Pentecostal, which is a cult. And they teach the issue of baptism in the

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Holy Spirit. Now the question whether or not the gifts are for today, I affirm they are. In fact, I'll be debating it in Salt Lake City, actually in Draper, Utah, this

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Saturday in two days on the 22nd. I'll give more information about that in a little bit.

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So what we're hearing here, what it sounds like, is people doing things improperly. Because in 1

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Corinthians 14, it says the tongues are to be done by two at the most, three, that's it, with interpretation, otherwise, keep quiet.

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So when a pastor gets up and just starts talking in tongues, and there's no interpretation, then he needs to keep quiet.

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If he doesn't, if he continues, he's out of line. If he's doing it just because he wants to do it, he's out of line.

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He needs to be rebuked politely, the elderly need to step in, so you can't do that. So when they say the whole congregation starts speaking in tongues, or singing in tongues, that's chaos.

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Because in 1 Corinthians 14, it talks about people, you know, you all speak in tongues, well, the unbeliever come, they don't think you're crazy, and that things be done in order.

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So sometimes they'll say, well, you know what, you can sing in tongues, because in the Bible it says praying in tongues, you can't do it all at once, but you can sing in tongues, which is stupid, because if someone comes into a congregation and they're all singing in tongues, they'll say, oh, that's okay, but if they're all speaking in tongues at once, then it's not okay, it's confusing.

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So the level of incompetence when it comes to applying this biblically, the level of incompetence is incredible in Christian churches that do this across the board, and particularly in the cults that often do this as well.

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So long story short, I believe the gifts are still here, but there's a lot of fakery, and you don't have to be baptized in the

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Holy Spirit to get the charismatic gifts, because in 1 Corinthians 14, 1,

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Paul says, pursue the spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy, and one who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues.

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The reason that these cults would speak in tongues instead of prophesying is because you can't verify the tongues.

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You can say something like, which is a Buddhist chant, or you can say, gotta buy a

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Honda, you know, gotta buy a Honda, and you can say it really fast, and you can have all kinds of things you're saying, and nobody translates it, nobody knows, there's no verification, so they'll do this.

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Prophecy's different, because with prophecy, it can be tested, so they go to the emotional stuff with these tongues instead of sticking with what the biblical pattern and positioning is, and they abuse it if it's real, and they misuse it and fake it when it's not, okay?

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Thank you, that confirms exactly what I found in Scripture, and so I'm going to advise my friend to really be careful and seek the

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Scriptures. And while I'm at it, in 1 Corinthians 14, I wondered if you could explain verses 34 and 35 about how it says women should keep silent in the churches?

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Yes, now the word silent there is Sagapo, and it means absolute silence, not uttering a word.

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And this is an interesting thing here, because when Paul says in 1 Timothy 2, he says,

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I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority but to remain quiet, and that word is hesuchia, and you can be more quiet, you can be more hesuchia, but you can't be more

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Sagapo, you can't be more silent, silent means absolutely nothing. So what's going on?

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Well, this is a debated area of Scripture, and when I say that,

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I don't mean we can't understand it, I'm saying that it's a debated area of Scripture.

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So it says women are to keep silent in the churches. One of the things they think, the commentators think is going on here in the culture, in the context, was that in the churches there, the men would sit up front, the women sat in the back.

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It wasn't an inferiority thing, it was just a purity thing, men and women didn't mix in public if you weren't married, and so they wouldn't intermix one man's wife with another man sitting next to him in a pew, they wouldn't do that kind of thing, so they kept them separate.

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So one of the theories is that because in Christianity the women had newfound freedoms, that they were speaking up in the congregation and saying, what do you say, up front, because the preacher would be up front, and I've been in a synagogue, a rebuilt synagogue in Jerusalem of the day, and they're kind of small, at least the one

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I was in was small. The bigger ones make it more difficult to hear because they're made of stone and they echo, and it's just not that clear.

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So anyway, so one of the theories is don't speak up in church, be quiet, don't talk, don't do that.

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Ask your husband at home, because if they desire to learn anything, let her ask her husband, like it says, at home, the next verse, for it's improper for a woman to speak in church.

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So the question then is, is it improper because of this situation that was going on?

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And we know because women were communicating in church context in other parts of scripture, like Phoebe was doing that.

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And so, and then we had the first, in 1 John, where is that?

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I think it's 1 John 2, let me go, it's been a while. Let's see, and the lady, what was it?

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The elder to the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in the truth. This is 2

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John 1. And for the sake of the truth which abides in us, and the children walking.

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So I'm trying to find it, because there's a place where it says that meets in her house and things like that. So anyway, this is why it's so difficult, because they're trying to balance it with the whole of scripture.

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Now, they're not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church, because Adam was first created. So that's tied to the created order.

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But here in 1 Corinthians 14, 35 through the end of the chapter, it's more difficult. So we're not exactly sure, because it says, ask your husbands at home, because it's improper for them to speak in church.

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Well, what kind of improper? Culturally improper or not? Furthermore, we know,

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I forget exactly where it is, 1 Corinthians 11, I believe women are to have their heads covered. And so this was also a cultural thing, because the glory of,

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I'll put it this way, the head covering was a symbol of her submission to authority.

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And so women are under the authority of their husbands. It does not mean they're inferior. It just means that he's the spiritual head of the house.

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And that's just how it works in federal headship and the ordination that God has set up. Just as the father sent the son, and the son was doing what the will of the father was, he wasn't lesser, he was equal, but a difference in function, the same way with the husband and the wife.

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And so the symbol of authority of their head was the head covering, which

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I think is really cool when I see ladies in the church doing that. Which I don't see very often, because the church I go to doesn't do that, but I just like it.

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I think it's feminine. I think it's neat. So what we say today about that is, well, you don't need a symbol of authority over your head because it's not a cultural norm.

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Because it was a cultural norm out there. In that culture, a woman could be divorced if she let her hair down in public.

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Because that was a sensuous thing that was for the husband only. And so what she was doing by letting her hair down in public, if she were to do that, was she was joining herself with the prostitutes.

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And so that was a horrible thing to do. So they put a veil over their hair, symbolizing it wasn't letting it down, but retaining the modesty that was to be public, and that the full hair, letting the hair down was for the household, for the husband, for the family.

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So that's why the symbol was there for that. So they think there's a lot of cultural stuff going on here with the women in that context and in this context, and it's difficult to say for sure.

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I don't know if that helps or not. Matt, thank you. I agree with you, and I agree that that's what the

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Scripture says. I just had one more question about the last line of verse 35, where it says, for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

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Did that apply to the culture back then, or does it apply now as well?

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I don't think it applies now. I really don't think it applies now.

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I think it's cultural. It's improper for a woman to speak in church, because they were to—I'm going to back up here and try and establish a little bit more of a women mindset in that ancient culture.

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So, a man who was married to a woman—I'll get back to the bread. I'll explain this, because I think it's going to have some bearing on this, because it's interesting.

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I'll be right back. Okay, hold on. Hey, folks, I'll be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276,

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I'll be right back. Please, stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Danielle. Sorry about that.

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Welcome. Are you still there? Yeah. Okay. So, a little background, and I'll get into some other ideas about this text.

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So, you may remember that in the biblical accounts, for example,

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Sarah and Abraham, and she couldn't have a child, so she gave Hagar to him, and he placed his seed in Hagar.

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The seed was like a seed that you could put anywhere in the ground. It just needed ground to form, but it was the seed that was considered important.

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This is why she could give Hagar to him. His seed would grow in that fertile ground, but it was still his seed, and since she was married to Abraham, it was her child.

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So, this kind of a concept was there about women. Women were not property, but they were almost considered property, but they weren't, because the mindset of a lot of people back then was very protective of women.

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So, women were to be very, very modest, hair was to be covered, and they weren't to go out in public by themselves, which is why it's a shock when

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Jesus in John 4 goes to the well, and she's by herself with him, because normally women go out in groups of women, or one woman with a male protector in the family.

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Otherwise, it's improper, because she's out there carousing on her own. She's not under the proper authority and headship.

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This kind of an attitude was very, very prevalent, and also what's kind of interesting in it is that women could do and say things men couldn't do, and they could get away with stuff.

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They could get into a face of somebody and really read them the riot act, where if a man did the same thing, it'd be in a fight.

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So, women were considered lesser in strength, lesser in this, lesser in that, but they were protected by the men and the extended family, so they could get away with stuff.

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It's kind of an interesting juxtaposition. So, two men would be walking along the road. If one said to the first man, how's your wife doing?

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That could be considered very rude. What do you mean to ask about my wife? And so, you had to be very good friends before you could really talk about the family and other stuff.

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So, anyway, it gets into that. Okay. So, in light of that, it was true that in the

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Greek culture, in the Jewish customs, that women were always in the background of public affairs.

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Men were the ones who had the authority. Men were the ones who vote really counted, not the women.

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So, women were to be quiet. They were to be silent. And here in the Christian church, suddenly they're not.

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Furthermore, it's in the context of prophecy, because in verse 31, for you can all prophesy one by one.

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Okay. The spirit of the prophets are subject of the prophets. It doesn't say only the men can prophesy, but you all can.

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So, now, another theory is that what they're talking about here is that the women would prophesy, and maybe they were prophesying, but it's one of the theories, and that it was inappropriate for them to do that.

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But it does say, if they want to learn anything, let them ask. Well, if you're prophesying, you're not learning.

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The Holy Spirit's working on you and through you. So, that theory, not that strong. And so, it seems to be that, and let's see.

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Oh, and one last thing is that it says, let them ask their own husbands. So, there's also this aspect of, what about single women that were there?

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You could have a single woman there, as long as she's with her brother, or brother -in -law, or father, or something like that, in that context, because she's covered in that sense.

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So, here, it's mentioning husbands. So, it might be that the husband -wife relationship is what's examined here, and if a woman whose husband is present, and she's asking questions, she's out of order because she's under his headship, and she needs to ask him.

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So, you see, there's just a lot here, and it's hard to say exactly what it is. Not too confusing.

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If it helped even, I don't know. No, I really appreciate it, Matt, and it just helps me a lot, and I will continue just digging into the scriptures to really understand this more.

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I hope you have a great rest of your day. God bless you. Sure, and tell you what, if you find stuff that I haven't mentioned, call me up and let me know.

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I'd love to hear. I'm always learning and open to being taught, especially from women.

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Okay, I don't have any problem with that, all right? So, that's good. Thank you. You're welcome.

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All right, Daniel, God bless. All right, we have nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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Let's see. So, tomorrow, I'll not be on the air live. We'll have a recorded show, and the reason is because I'll be driving down to that infamous state called

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Utah, as some pronounce it Utah, and I'll be going down there on Friday because I don't want to go down on Saturday because if I'm kind of flat or something,

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I won't make the debate I'm going to be in on Saturday. I'll be debating Andrew Rappaport Saturday at 6 p .m.

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in Draper, near Sandy. People who know are listening. It's only room for 35 people.

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So, here's the thing. I don't know if it's going to be packed. I don't know if it's going to be empty.

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I do know that my friend, Ed Romine, is going to be there, and he warned me he's going to be there, and I tease him a lot.

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He's a good guy. So, he's going to be there. My wife may be there. She hasn't decided if she's going to go or not.

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Some other people are going to show up, and Andrew and I are friends, and we're going to debate this issue. I believe that the charismatic gifts for today, he says they've ceased.

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Now, those are all for simplifications because he has a little blend into what I believe and vice versa, and we'll get into that.

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And what I've done is I have worked for a few days producing what

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I believe is a really cool PowerPoint presentation, which I'm going to give my opening statement, which

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I don't know how long it's supposed to be, but it should be long enough to get that done. And what I want to do is take all of the information in my slides.

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I'm going to print them up and staple them together, take like six pages, and so I'm going to just give us a handout out there at the place, so I'll have at least 30 packets of that information.

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Now, the room that we're going to have the debate is in the back of the place at the Utah Christian Research Center.

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Now, you can find it by going to utahchristianresearchcenter .com. It's real easy.

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And Bill McKeever, you'll see him on the front. I've known Bill for, I don't know, 30 some odd years.

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And he's a great guy. I tease him a lot. And he says to me, you make me laugh.

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Son, if he's listening right now. And Eric Johnson will be there. Eric and Bill work together at the

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Mormonism Research Ministry. They are world -class experts on Mormonism.

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When I have questions that I can't find an answer to, I call up Bill, I call up Eric. They'll give me answers.

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And they're very gracious, very good. They work hard for the ministry, for the things of the

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Lord, and praise God. And so, in fact, Eric leads trips to Europe, you know, for the

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Bible tours and stuff like that. We're going to be going in October. I've already gone with him twice to Israel.

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Have you been to, right, twice to Israel? I've been twice or once, twice. Oh, that's right, it was twice.

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And I've also been to Turkey once. We're going to check it out. But anyway, so, again, if you want to attend that debate, you'll have to get there a little bit early because it's seating.

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And think of it this way. The place, if you've not been there, is two large -ish rooms joined by a small hallway.

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And so, if there's too much, if there's not enough seating where the debate's going to happen, you might be able to hang out behind it and listen because it's only a 10 -foot hallway that separates.

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And you can hear and listen, things like that. And then afterward, we'll have an after thing showing, talking, and whatever we're going to do.

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Okay? A lot there. Just remember, utahchristianresearchcenter .com.

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Check it out. The address is all there and everything. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

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It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live.

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If you want to give me a call, just dial 877 -207 -2276.

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Let's get to, let's see if I can pronounce this right. Eloise? Eloise? How do you pronounce your name?

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Eloise. Eloise, okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. Well, so what do you got there?

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Well, I was listening to your answer for the woman who was on just before.

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I got in the car, and so I missed her question. So I just got in the middle of you giving her the answer about how women were supposed to act in the church in biblical times.

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And my question was, there are some churches today who still believe that they use those scriptures to support their belief that women can't teach men in the church, women can't be preachers, that women can't be deacons or elders, or that women have a very limited role in the church.

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And I was wondering if you feel that those scriptures, which were designed for a culture that's different from our culture, if those restrictions still apply.

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Yes, they do. And let me explain why. And I'll go through the scriptures and show you, all right? So women are not to be pastors and elders.

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And any church that has a woman pastor and elder is in sin and rebellion against God, flat out.

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And I'll explain why. Paul says in 1 Timothy 3 .15,

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I'm going to read this because it's 1 Timothy 3. He says, in case I'm delayed, I write to you so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God.

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So he's giving instruction to Timothy on how the church is to be run, how it's to be done. Now, in the context of that, he says in 1

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Timothy 2 .12 and 13, he says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but remain quiet, for Adam was first created.

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It's not cultural when he says that, because he's tying it to the created order. And I can get into the theology behind that, but I won't for now.

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So this is definitely not a cultural thing. He says, because Adam was first created. This is the order that God gave.

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So this is why. All right. Now, in 1 Timothy, I'm going to read this. 1

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Timothy 5 .17. Here we go. The elders who rule well.

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Now, just so you know, in Greek, this is written in Greek. Greek is an interesting language.

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It's very, very precise. We don't have a lot of precision in English. So when we have a word table, it's neuter.

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It's gender. There is no gender. It's just neuter. Table, grass, sky. Okay? But in Greek, nouns have gender, and or they can have neutrality.

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Okay. So the word rulers here, excuse me, elders, I mean, elders is presbuteroi.

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And the O -I ending in Greek is masculine plural. Now, he could have said it in the neutral or the feminine, but he didn't.

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So he says this. The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.

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So the preacher now is an elder. Okay? Just draw a conclusion for what the scripture says.

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So now what I'm going to do is go to 1 Timothy 3 again and read what he says.

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And then I'm going to go to Titus and read. We're going to put it all together. So he says in 1

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Timothy 3 .1, an overseer. Now, the Greek word there is episkopon.

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Episkopon. And it is in a masculine. Then must be above reproach the husband of one wife.

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And the Greek is andra mias gounikas. A husband, that's what it means, of one wife.

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Temperate, prudent, et cetera. He must manage his household well, et cetera. The man does not know how to do that.

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He can't, et cetera, et cetera. And deacons must likewise be men of dignity.

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It goes on. Because men must first be tested. And then it says in verse 11, women must likewise be dignified.

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So women and men are both mentioned. And it's the males who are supposed to be in the office of deacon and overseer.

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Episkopos, which is often translated as bishop. One more thing I'll show you. Titus chapter 1, starting at verse 5.

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Paul says to Titus, for this reason, I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you.

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Namely, if a man is above reproach the husband of one wife.

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Andra mias gounikas there. And he says for the overseer, it's back to that word episkopos again.

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You know, bishop. Must be above reproach, et cetera, et cetera. So we see here,

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I'll summarize. Women are not to teach or exercise authority. They can do some teaching.

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I explain how and what situation. Because Adam was first created. So it's not cultural.

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It's in the created order of God. Pastors are by definition elders in 1 Timothy 5 .17.

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And he says he's giving instruction on how to behave in the household of God in 1 Timothy 3 .15. In Titus chapter 1, verses 5 -7, the elder is to be a husband of one wife.

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And in Titus 3, he's to be a husband of one wife as well. So women cannot fit that bill at all.

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Okay? What was the first scripture that you mentioned, the one that mentioned

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Adam? 1 Timothy 2, 12 -13. Now, let me explain a little bit more.

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There's a word there. It says this. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but remain quiet.

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The word quiet is hesuchia in the Greek. And it means to keep it down.

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It doesn't mean absolute silence. So you could become more hesuchia. So it's not saying they can't do teaching because they can teach children.

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And they can certainly teach other women. But they're not to be in ecclesiastical authority over men in the church.

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That's the thing. They can't do that. They can't be preachers. Okay? Okay. I can understand that you believe that.

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That's what the scripture says. So let me ask you. Do you agree or disagree with what God's word says?

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What I disagree with about is whether it's the application that you're making for the statement that he makes in 1

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Timothy 2 about Adam was formed first and Eve. Because, you know, the culture at the time was such that there was no way a woman would teach a man.

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There was no way a woman would do any of those things. It's because they weren't allowed. And I'm not sure it's all because of that verse in 1

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Timothy 2. All of the other statements that you quoted are true.

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Well, they are true because it's in the word of God. It's in the word of God. That's why it's true. That's what it says.

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You can do what you want. You can dismiss it all you want. But then you've got to answer to God for that. So when it says in 1

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Timothy 2, 12 and 13, Adam was first created, is that a cultural thing or is that based on the created order of God?

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No, no, no. Of course not. Of course not. Which is it? Which is it? Yeah. No, which is it?

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We can't assume. But which is it? No, hold on. Which is it? Is it a cultural thing or is it based in the created order of God?

31:05

Which is it? That one is based in the created order of God, okay? It's not a cultural thing.

31:10

But what I'm suggesting is that there's nothing that says that that statement there applies to every single time when it said that a woman shouldn't do things.

31:19

Because, you know, he doesn't mention that. But you're wrong. Excuse me.

31:26

But you're wrong. But you're wrong. Because he says in the next chapter, he's explaining how people are to behave in the household of God.

31:35

1 Timothy 3, 15. He's giving instruction on how the church is to be. No, no, no.

31:42

You don't understand. No, no, no. You don't understand. There's more to this. There's more to this.

31:48

Let me just shift gears a little bit. You know why the church is in trouble today? It's not because of women pastors.

31:55

It's because men aren't stepping up to do their jobs. When Adam and Eve were in the garden, she sinned first.

32:01

She gave the fruit to Adam. Then he ate. They both hid. The pre -incarnate

32:07

Christ came and said to the man, where are you? He didn't say, Eve, what have you done?

32:12

He did not say, Adam and Eve, what have you done? He said to the man, where are you? The Bible says in Romans 5, 12, sin entered the world through one man,

32:21

Adam. It says in Romans 5, 19, through the transgression of the one, that's

32:26

Adam, that many were made sinners. This is called federal headship. That the male represents the descendants, whether you like it or not, is the issue.

32:36

Because Jesus, the male, represented the people in him. And that's where this doctrine comes from, because of the crucifixion.

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Because Jesus, in order to redeem his people, had to be the representative of his people. And it's called federal headship.

32:50

And we are in him, just as we were in Adam. We weren't in Eve. We were in Adam.

32:56

And I can go to the verses on that. This is doctrine. This is theology. And I'd love to explain this in depth over a whole hour sometime.

33:04

Maybe I'll do that. But this is what it says. This is why it's important. And so the men are failing to do their job in the church.

33:10

And that's why women pastors exist. Women pastors is sinful. And men are sinful for allowing it.

33:16

And it's going to come to them first. Okay? Now let me ask you.

33:22

How is a woman going to be a husband of one wife when it says the elder is to be? And pastor is an elder.

33:29

How is the elder going to be a woman if it's a husband of one wife? How does that work? Okay. The reason it was stated in that way is that there's no way a woman is going to be an elder in that culture.

33:40

So of course he would state it that way because it was only going to be a man. Okay. Well, you're rebelling against God's Word.

33:47

You are rebelling. I'm telling you, you're in rebellion. We've got a break. Hold on, okay? But you're not submitting to God's Word.

33:54

And that will lead to further error. And I'll tell you what the error is in 80 % of the cases. Hold on, okay?

34:00

We'll be right back after these messages. Hope you're enjoying the conversation. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

34:15

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. And Louise, are you still there?

34:21

Yeah, I'm still here. Okay. Just want to tell you, 80 % of the churches and denominations that adopt women pastors, in two generations, they start adopting homosexuality.

34:34

It's okay. All right? 80%. Why do you think that is?

34:45

Okay, now that's something I haven't heard. As a matter of fact,

34:51

I don't know personally of any churches that have accepted. I know that there are some that have accepted homosexuality. Even some pastors, allowing pastors to be homosexual.

34:58

So that's really strange. This is my own research.

35:04

I've written a lot on this topic. I know this topic about women pastors very well. And I have a standing open challenge to anybody, a qualified individual, who wants to debate me on it.

35:14

I'll go to their church, and we'll have it public and debated. And I've been offering it for about 20 years on radio, and no one's taken me up on it.

35:21

Not even once. Does the Bible teach women to be pastors and elders? And the answer is no. I've got a question for you, though.

35:27

I've got a question for you. Here's something to think about. Could it be that when you interpret

35:33

Scripture, what you do with it, then means that when you're done with the Scripture, it's now saying the opposite of what it says?

35:41

So when Paul says, I do not allow anyone to teach or preach, you know, excess authority, when you're done, they can.

35:50

And when it says an elder must be the husband of one wife, now when you're done, it doesn't mean it has to be the elder of one wife.

35:58

I understand what you're saying. I understand your argument. Wow. Can you answer it, though?

36:07

Can I answer it? No, I agree with what you're saying. I mean, I can't speak against what you're saying.

36:15

Okay. See, I really believe I'm against women pastors and elders, and I'm against the idea of women saying that they can be pastors and elders.

36:24

I am. I'm more upset, not about that, but about how men are failing to do what they're supposed to be doing in the churches.

36:33

See, let's just say there's a church and the pastor leaves, for whatever reason, you know, he's called in or whatever.

36:39

He's sick, whatever. And they go to church and they want a woman to preach. It shouldn't happen.

36:45

They should go to church and let nothing happen. Nothing. And nobody gets up to preach.

36:51

That's the elder's fault. It's the male's fault, not the women's fault. This is a serious thing.

36:56

Remember, the pre -incarnate Christ came to Adam, said to the man, where are you?

37:03

She sent first. She gave it to him. And who got the address first?

37:10

He did. This is serious stuff. And men need to step up.

37:16

But no, they're stepping down. And there's a lot of dynamics behind it. A lot of times, because masculinity is under attack.

37:23

And women are attacking it, even in the church. White masculinity, white privilege, toxic masculinity.

37:31

You've got to get in touch with your feminine self. All this stuff. Men don't know what to do anymore. I know what they need to do.

37:38

I could teach a course on it. Follow Christ and His manhood. I've been doing a study over the past few months, periodically, learning about the manhood of Jesus and what

37:47

He exemplified. That's where we need to stand. And follow Jesus. And when women get up and say, no, we can be pastors and elders.

37:54

I'm sorry, Eloise, nothing against you. But men need to say, no, that's not acceptable. We will not allow it.

38:00

And they need to guard the pulpit so it doesn't happen. And they need to get a man in there and get him to preach and teach, like he's supposed to.

38:07

That's how it's supposed to be. But men are too many cowards now. Mamby -pamby little guys who are sitting in hammocks, hoping to be fed.

38:15

I tell people, my wife doesn't like it when I say this, men are the best at everything. The best pilots.

38:22

The best athletes. The best murderers. The best extortionists.

38:28

We excel. This is the general kind of a rule. And I tell men, I tell women this, if you allow a man, you encourage a man to do nothing, he'll excel at it.

38:38

Women want to get in and fix things. Don't fix things. That's not your job.

38:44

Your job is to support the man. And if he doesn't do his job, then you take it to God.

38:50

And you let God deal with him. That's how it's supposed to be. But women so often, oh, I'll take care of it.

38:55

I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. Don't do it. And especially in the church, men are supposed to step up and they're supposed to do their job in the church.

39:02

And it's not the place of women to be pastors and elders. Period. The Bible says so. Okay? Yeah.

39:09

Okay. Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate you spending so much time going over this.

39:17

It's important. I'm not a pastor or an elder or whatever. I'm a member of a church. Okay. But I was just concerned that,

39:24

I don't know, I was concerned that it didn't seem to me that the cultural restrictions, that there were more cultural restrictions than really because of Adam and Eve.

39:38

No, it's not. It's based on the created order of God. That's what

39:43

Paul relates it to, removes it from culture. Period. Done. That's it. No way around it.

39:49

Okay? All right. Okay. Thank you so much. You're welcome so much. Okay. God bless.

39:55

All right. Let's get to Bob from Louisiana. Bob, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

40:01

I haven't talked to you lately. Do you think Jesus is going to return to the earth?

40:07

Yes. Mm hmm. Well, I was talking to somebody today that is adamantly opposed to that thought.

40:17

Well, is it an atheist or what? No, he's a, he's a preacher in California and he says that Jesus is already king and he's on the throne and earth is going to be destroyed and everything's going to start happening in heaven.

40:36

Yeah. It's called a preterism and a preterism is the teaching. I'll tell you what it is and I'll show you the reputation of it.

40:45

Preterism is the position that Jesus returned in 70 AD with the armies of Rome and destroyed

40:54

Jerusalem. And that was his return. And that everything spoke of it.

41:00

No, I'm serious. It's called preterism. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's stupid.

41:05

Oh my goodness. Yeah. And so the preterists will hold to that position and therefore

41:12

Jesus is not going to return. He already did, but they will say that there's going to be new heavens and new earth.

41:18

Now that's fine. That's biblical because it's spoken about in first Timothy three and nine and 10.

41:23

Not a problem. Okay. But Jesus is going to return according to the prophecy of the angels.

41:29

In Acts one, nine through 11, this Jesus whom you have seen of sent into the clouds, he will come in just the same way you have seen in just the same way.

41:39

And so that's what's going to happen. It's not in the armies of Jerusalem. So for anybody to say Jesus already returned, he's wrong.

41:47

And in fact, get this, second Thessalonians two, Paul addresses this error.

41:55

Don't be quickly shaken. As if you received a letter from us to the fact that the day of the

42:01

Lord has come, it will not come until the apostasy comes first. And this is talking about the coming of our

42:07

Lord Jesus Christ, which is related to the day of the Lord. And I can get into all this. I can teach on this.

42:13

And so that's that view. Preterism is a false view.

42:18

It's just a false view. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's the way I see it. I mean, Jesus is already on the throne of David and him and, you know,

42:28

Moses and Elijah and all the saints are ruling in heaven now. I mean, why didn't

42:33

Paul understand that? Well, here's the thing. See, I believe that.

42:38

There's a position called amillennialism. And it is the position that the kingdom of God is now because Satan was bound by Jesus in Matthew 12, 22 to 32.

42:51

And that Jesus says, I can go, I can show you quickly because we're, you know, we get about five minutes or so where Jesus says in Matthew 13, something really interesting.

43:03

He says, you know, talks about the wheat and the chairs, right? And in, you know, the enemy comes out and souls shows the tears and stuff.

43:12

And in verse 30, Jesus says, allow both to go together until the harvest and the time of the harvest.

43:18

I will say to the reapers first, gather the tears. Now, Jesus says the first ones gathered are the wicked.

43:26

That's what he says at the time of the harvest. I agree with you.

43:31

It's not happened. Absolutely. It's not happened, but there's a point I'm trying to get to. I'll show you. He says in verse 40, he interprets the parable.

43:38

He says, so just as the tears are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

43:44

The son of man will send forth his angels. I'll gather out of his kingdom, all stumbling blocks.

43:52

And those who commit lawlessness. So the taking of the tears is the taking of the wicked out of his kingdom, which means the kingdom of God has to be in place and the wicked have to be in it.

44:04

That's what it says. So, yeah. And it, yeah. And it looks like to me,

44:09

Satan is taking people captive today with his thoughts and doctrines. You got that right.

44:15

And so one of the answers to that position, because you go to revelation 20 and this is just a position

44:22

I hold. I'm not saying it is right. I just think it's the right one. I have some other reasons for it. And if I'm wrong, okay.

44:28

You know, it doesn't bother me, but it says, then I saw an angel come down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

44:36

Well, the angels literal, the key is symbolic. The chain is symbolic.

44:42

Hold of the dragon. That's symbolic. The serpent of old. That's literal.

44:48

Who is the devil? That's literal. And bound him for a thousand years. Is it literal or figurative?

44:54

That's the question. People often just assume it means a literal thousand years.

45:00

Does it? Because God owns the cattle on a thousand Hills, a days, but a thousand years, the term thousand by itself is often used to illustrate a great, a great exaggeration.

45:18

So I'm just saying you can't assume revelation 20 verse one is literal. It might be.

45:24

I'm just saying it might be, but you can't assume it is just say, well, it is. Maybe it is, but maybe it's not.

45:32

You can't prove it. And so here's the thing of what you said. And through him as a serpent, the devil into the abyss and shut it over him so that he would not deceive the nations any longer until the thousand years was completed.

45:46

So after the thousand years, then he could just see the nations. Well, in my position,

45:51

I would assume that he's been let loose and that he is deceiving the nations world war one.

45:57

Yeah. Now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see the same thing.

46:04

Yeah. The weakness of my position is in the following verse. And, uh, those who had not received the mark in the forehead or hand, they are, they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

46:15

And the rest of the day did not come in life until the thousand years were completed. So this is a challenge to my position.

46:21

Okay. So what I say to people is every eschatological position has strengths and weaknesses.

46:28

And that's why I'm very, very, uh, liberal about different positions except for preterism, because that's clearly refuted by scripture.

46:40

So every, every, yeah, good. Yeah. Every system has strengths and weaknesses.

46:47

So that's all I said. I told him, I said, I told him Paul definitely didn't feel like he was ruling and reigning anything when he went about preaching.

46:58

Um, yes, that's great. Now, Mr. Kit, I just saw before the show ends is maybe there's two

47:03

Raptors, one of the wicked, one of the, of the good. Technically that might be true because in Matthew 24,

47:08

Luke 17, two men in the field, one is taken. That's not the goods were taken. It's definitely the wicked who are taken where they take and they're taken to a place of destruction at the end of Luke 17.

47:19

It says, so I can teach on this for quite a while. There's really interesting stuff that are strong for my position and there's stuff that's weak for my position.

47:27

So thank you, Matt. Thank you, Matt. Have a safe trip tomorrow.

47:33

You too. God bless. Thanks. All right, folks. Hey, we're out of here. The Lord bless you. I won't be on the air live tomorrow because I'm going down to Utah for a debate, which will be on Saturday.

47:43

If you want information on that, I mean the Salt Lake city area in Draper, just go to Utah Christian.

47:49

Uh, Oh, what is it? Utah Utah Christian research center. Dot com.