Highlight: James White Exposes Progressive Scripture Twisting

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00:00

You said earlier that you're the one dealing with the text. Everyone's spinning it I would like to if we can in the few minutes we have left.

00:07

Yes. I want to understand Kai Hassan koi mei fei meta arsenos koitain gunaikos

00:15

There's there's just a small number of words here. Let's see if we can actually agree Okay, whoever koi mei fei lies

00:27

With an arsenos and then koitain, of course is coitus this is this is to get into bed so as to have coitus as with a gunaikos

00:39

Now we agree on this. Okay. Are you are you saying so? Are you saying that there is anything in this text?

00:50

That limits this prohibition So it does not include where do you get loving monogamous

01:01

Same -sex Koitain, where does where does that come from? So this is again, this is where I do accuse you all of not doing good hermeneutics

01:10

You're taking one verse breaking down the words and saying look there's nothing here It just simply says man

01:15

Man, don't lie together as you do with a woman if you take the verse out of that context and just read it as you did

01:21

I would say yes, that sounds like a broad condemnation of all gay sex. Okay, but before you go on before you want

01:26

Just I just want to make sure is there anything in the Hebrew because I was just looking at the Greek Septuagint because more people Do that.

01:31

No, we agree. So you'd agree that the the the Technical terms are used for male and female

01:39

All that stuff is is right there in the text and we're on it We're are we actually agreeing on something?

01:47

This is not I don't know why this is surprising. I Just I don't know I just figured in this hour that would be something would be somewhat of a historical

01:55

Event, so we agree on that and your argument is that there's something else

02:03

Cultural context of Leviticus 18 Places the behavior that's being described in verse 22 outside of the behavior that I'm talking about when

02:11

I look at my congregation of that has LGBT people in them and Perform their weddings and encourage them to loving committed relations because the context of ancient

02:21

Egypt and Canaan Okay, not loving consensual. Okay. Okay. Hold on a second So the law that was given by Moses can only be relevant in the ancient world

02:32

Where you know Canaanite and Egyptian religion and can have no application to today

02:38

Which would mean that Paul completely blew it when he interpreted these words in the New Testament. You can have an application

02:45

I think it should have application. I think it's against Exploitative sexual relationships, but there's nothing in you agreed.

02:53

We agreed on what the text was. It is specifically talking about a man getting in bed to have coitus with a man rather than in this in the fashion of a woman and so can you agree by any good biblical scholar is

03:12

Where in the ancient world in Canaan and Egypt was that taking place so where the evidence we have the evidence

03:19

We have of men lying with men as with women in ancient Canaan and Egypt Generally, it's either exploitative sexual practices or pagan idolatry sexual

03:27

So you're saying that you can actually you're actually saying that there were no loving homosexual relationships in the ancient world in Canaan or Not the ancient world.

03:36

I said in Canaan in Egypt. Yeah, there were no you know this I didn't say there were none Well, but but it's still prohibited whether there's only because you you earlier said well, it's only 5 %

03:48

So why would Jesus have addressed this? So you're using the minimalization was much more common No, see you're you're twisting my own argument to try to win your point.

03:56

The point is what was very asking you You're asking your position What no you're telling me my position and then having me respond to what you've articulated my position to be

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Here's the thing. We know that in ancient Canaan in ancient Egypt It was very prevalent for men to have sex with men men of higher status to have sex with men of lower status men

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Who hadn't who had enslaved other cultures and people from other surrounding nations were able to have sex with their male slaves

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That was a very common practice. So it makes logical sense and it was perversion, right? Yes, that is pervert what made it what made was it only the exploit element that made it made it perversion

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Or is it a fact Was it was it only the Exploitative element that made it perversion or is the is it not clear that in verse 13 of liticus 20?

04:45

the issue is the twisting of creation between the the the

04:52

Zakar and the Isha It's that it's the technical. It's it's the it's the changing of the created order

05:00

Isn't that exactly Paul's Paul's application in Romans chapter 1 when he doesn't talk about exploitative relationships

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He says men lusting after men That's that's reciprocal

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You can't say that's one man lusting after someone who doesn't want to be lusted after this was a reciprocal

05:18

Relationship in Romans chapter 1 I don't I disagree and I okay why?

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Because Romans chapter 1 again the context of all of Romans 1 Paul is describing the descent of humanity into godlessness and Paul's begins with they exchanged the truth of God for a lie worship created things instead of the

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Creator God he goes down and Explains how idolatry leads to this perverted sexual practice in my understanding

05:44

I'm having sex with men and women having sex with women Yes, the the sex that's taking place there is in relation to the idolatry which

05:51

Paul calls sexual immorality Idolatry whether it's it's heterosexual or homosexual if it's sexually immoral.

05:59

It's idolatrous So can why do you not see then that the example that's being given

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By the Apostle here. I know what you're trying to say I think what you're trying to say is this is only relevant to idolaters

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But the problem is the example of Romans 1 is this is a twisting of the creation -creator

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Relationship even down to the point where when it says even their women Exchanged the natural for that which is against nature

06:30

I do agree that it seems the most likely reading of Romans 1 is that the context of that sexual behavior is

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Related to Greco -Roman Idolatry now the other side that I'm also willing to concede is that I do believe

06:43

Paul has a Patriarchal worldview Paul believes the created order is fundamentally patriarchal.

06:49

I Reject that I believe that the reason Paul would believe that Homosexual sex is sinful is because it's a man emasculating another man.

06:58

It's threatening the patriarchal ordering of society I think that's the worldview Paul inherits from his culture.

07:04

I don't believe that's the divine ordering of the world The problem we Jumped over it for a second, but you started talking about patriarchy and stuff like that the problem was the verse that I'm quoting from is about women and and the

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But the objection is clearly from creation not just some type of but but creation

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Patriarchy is the ordering of creation it's the result of the fact that God created this world to function in a particular fashion and if it doesn't function that particular fashion it brings death and That's what that's obviously not true loving consensual same -sex relationships.