Apologia Radio: Restraining Orders and Scary American Theology

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00:05

I would say if the authorities didn't want us involved in the public square, they ought not to have crucified

00:10

Jesus in the public square. Use humanistic principles. It's the same idea. It's the same end.

00:16

I would say, what's the problem with stardust bumping into stardust? In the cosmic picture, none.

00:21

There's no problem. In the cosmic picture, it won't matter. No, Mr.

00:28

President. You are not protecting reproductive freedom. You are authorizing the destruction of freedom for one million little human beings every year.

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I'm sorry, my friends, but I am tired of seeing Jesus presented as a weak beggar.

00:56

He is a powerful savior. And the gospel is not a suggestion.

01:02

It is a command. Reverend Haller, don't you sympathize with that?

01:12

I sympathize with every single human heart wishing to know the one true and living God. But I believe there's only one way that that can happen through Jesus Christ.

01:20

And the gospel is about repenting of sin, not celebrating it. An amazing adventure.

01:30

We will explore the spiritual abyss. You have not experienced this before.

01:45

All right. Hey, was that an awesome throwback or what? Man. I got chills, bro.

01:51

Did you? Yes. Zach reminded us of our old Apologia Radio intro music. I'm so glad you reminded us.

01:58

Dude. It's so good to hear that again. It's been so long. So good. It's so good. I remember going to bed with the headphones in my ears, just letting that blare.

02:06

That's what I went to sleep to. This is what I go to sleep to. This word lo -fi hip hop beats copyright free.

02:19

See, in order for us to actually have the background beats going, we have to have copyright free music or YouTube will kill it.

02:27

So we found. Silky, bro. Yeah. Silky. Silky like those pajamas you're wearing while listening to this.

02:37

Oh, I lost my wedding ring. Oh, no. Whoa. Is that what happens when this music comes on?

02:44

I'm losing weight. Oh, man. You did that in a message once and it was hilarious.

02:49

Well, my ring flew off. Remember in Iowa? Yeah. Yeah. He was like. And he went like. Did you know what happened?

02:55

I think so. Yeah. He was like. Oops. Someone gather that. My belongings hit someone in the face.

03:01

Well, anyways, welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. This program is brought to you by the creators at Apologia Studios.

03:08

You can get more at Apologia Studios dot com. That's A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A studios dot com.

03:16

Sorry. I'm super. It's been a long week. It's been a long week of pastoral responsibilities. Haven't got a lot of sleep this week and super exhausted.

03:24

So it may be a bit punchy today, just so you know. So with that, I am Pastor Jeff. They do call me the

03:30

Ninja and that is Luke the Bear right there. What up? And that is Zach Attack. What's up, everybody? Zachary Conover, Director of Communications at End Abortion Now dot com.

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And I know everything about him. Well, kind of.

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Well, it's just a throwback to a nice old 80s movie called Best of the Best. One of the greatest.

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One of the great 80s movie. One of the great movies of all time. I mean, in terms of martial arts. I've never seen it, so.

03:57

You need to see it. Best of the Best. It's great. The other ones. That's right there. But Best of the

04:03

Best. Part one. Excellent. Worthy cinema for a Friday night. And if you're married.

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That'll set the mood. Martial arts movie. Yeah, that'll really. Okay. So lots of talk about today and Apologia Radio.

04:23

Let's see here. So we're going to start off talking about important subject right now. Our brothers and sisters in Michigan are dealing with right now.

04:31

Who are out spreading the gospel. And speaking directly into the issue of abortion at their local abortion mills.

04:37

Yes. They've saved lots of lives. Praise God. And they are connected with endabortionnow .com.

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They've gotten all the stuff. Free training. Free resources. All that stuff. You can also get connected with endabortionnow at endabortionnow .com.

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Get all the free training. All the free resources. It is a resource for local churches across the country to save lives.

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To bring the distinctly Christian worldview into conflict with abortion.

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That is the purpose of endabortionnow. It is a gospel -centered movement to end abortion. And so that's where you guys can go.

05:11

So they've gotten connected. Actually, we need to do this before I actually go into this. As you guys are preparing.

05:17

Share the content, guys. Let everyone know. Important conversation. We're going to talk about what's happening in Michigan right now. We're going to talk about the state of American theology with a very upsetting questionnaire survey that was asked amongst

05:32

American evangelicals. It is disturbing. No other way to put that.

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And we're going to play some clips from a show that was trying to respond to us regarding some of the law of God, the commandments contained in ordinances, holiness code.

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These guys believe that we should be circumcising our babies on the eighth day as Christians and among a number of other things.

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So just play some clips from that. Not spend a lot of time on that today just because we have some bigger fish to fry right now.

06:06

So I wanted to point everybody who is living in Australia right now and New Zealand, we are coming.

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We're coming to Australia and New Zealand. Is that a promise or a threat? Actually both.

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So we are coming to New Zealand and Australia. We're going to come to Brisbane first, then to Sydney.

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Then we're coming to Christchurch, New Zealand. In Christchurch, we're going to be at Bishopdale Reformed Church on November the 15th, 6 .30

06:36

p .m. till 9 .30 p .m. We are also going to be in, again, Brisbane and Sydney.

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And for some reason, I do not have that on this flyer right here. I will get that to you at some point by the end of the show today or maybe these guys can pull it up here.

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We are going to be, I believe it's the 10th. Am I correct about that? The 10th is in Brisbane? Here, I'll pull it up right now.

06:58

They're pulling it up. I'll let you guys know what we're doing. End Abortion Now is coming to Australia and I think it's a perfect time.

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Queensland just fully legalized abortion. Zach and I were talking yesterday as we were going to our local magistrates to speak prophetically to them.

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The providence of God right now, right as abortion is fully legalized in Queensland, we already had plans to come in to speak to the church in Australia.

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The timing is a little bit eerie and I think it's very fitting for the church in Australia right now to receive encouragement, to receive instruction.

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And just having this sin, obviously on a national level, perpetuated in our country for over four decades.

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We have a lot of failures as a nation here in America. So anytime that we are invited now into another country to really spread this gospel -centered message of End Abortion Now and train the local churches to do the kind of work that we're doing, it comes with a lot of humility.

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We're not coming to instruct someone from a place of superiority or that we've found we're not superior.

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We're not coming in with that kind of attitude. We're really coming in from a place of humility and saying, brothers and sisters, this is so serious in God's eyes.

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And so we must act and do something in order to drive it out before God drives us out of our lands.

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We'll end on that note. When we come into a place like Australia and New Zealand and we say, please listen to us, church, we're coming with a knowledge of 40 years of failures in terms of the

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Christian church trying to adopt secular principles or secular methodologies, abandoning

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Christian commitments, trying to pretend neutrality. And we want to encourage you not to start your fight in the way that we did.

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We have failed as a church. We're coming out of that failure as a church in terms of reorienting ourselves to the gospel message.

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Only by God's grace. That's only by God's grace. So we praise God. God's graciousness toward Australia and New Zealand that he's sending believers to communicate that this needs to be about Christ, the word of God, the gospel, the call, the repentance and faith.

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I am just humbled that God has allowed us to have our eyes open to that truth in terms of fighting this fight in a consistently

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Christian way. And I'm grateful for the opportunity to come to Australia. But did we find the dates?

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Well, yeah, I have. What information were you... I want to find out for those of you guys who are right now in Australia and New Zealand, I want you guys to know the dates, times and locations.

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So in Brisbane is... Saturday the 10th at City Tabernacle Baptist Church.

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Saturday, November the 10th. So coming up very, very soon. Saturday, November the 10th at City Tabernacle...

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Baptist Church. Baptist Church. 9 a .m. to 3 p .m. 9 a .m. to 3 p .m. It's one of our longer ones. And then we're going to be in Sydney.

10:01

We made it long for Zach. Yeah. Then we're going to be in Sydney on that next

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Monday. Monday the 12th at Lagos Christian Church. 6 .30

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p .m. to 10 .30 p .m. Okay. And then we're going to be in Christchurch, New Zealand. Thursday the 15th.

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That's what you said at Bishop Dale Reformed Church. Yes. 6... Oh, that's not right.

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It says 6 .30 a .m. to 9 .30 p .m. I believe that's supposed to be 6 .30 p .m. 6 .30 p .m. Yes. It's not all day. I mean, well,

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Zach... No. I'm just kidding. It's true. I believe it's 6 .30 p .m. So if you want to be in attendance, please get connected at EndAbortionNow .com

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slash Australia. 2018. Australia 2018. EndAbortionNow .com.

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Go. You've got to register, get tickets, and all that good stuff. Please spread the word, and please pray for us that we wouldn't have any problems getting into Australia and New Zealand.

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I noticed that there's only males speaking at this conference. Yeah, we saw, of course, pro -choicers and pro -aborts saying that.

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Look at all the guys speaking. Yeah, all the men speaking up for the little ladies who are being killed.

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Yeah, doing what men are supposed to do. Zach, please bring us into the conversation. Let's have our guests come on. Yeah, so One Life Church in Michigan and their ministry to save children,

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One Life for Life, were equipped at EndAbortionNow when we had the conference here.

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And since then, they have been extremely active and faithful in their ministry in Flint at their local abortion mill and saving children and bringing the gospel to that place.

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But we have here on the radio show with us one of the men that's actually out there from open to close every day.

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And they're saying the Lord has blessed them with a ton of fruit out there. His name is

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Justin Phillips. And then he's joining us with his pastor, also, Eric Stewart.

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And I've seen Eric out there, too. I've seen the video footage of him out there ministering at the clinic, also having that support, too.

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So recently, maybe they can bring us into a little bit more of the details, but there was something issued against Justin as an infraction for being there constantly in the presence, confronting the people going in, the abortionists, calling out to them, essentially.

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Preaching the gospel, doing all that. So we have them here with us. Guys, are you with us still?

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Yeah. All right. Thanks so much for coming on, guys. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much.

12:30

We appreciate it. So bring us into what's going on, Justin, in terms of maybe talk just a little bit about how the ministry has been going.

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I know I think you guys have seen. Are we in the 60s now in terms of children saved? No, it's 77.

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Yes! Praise God. 77 children saved. Do you guys hear that? Are you listening right now?

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I know you guys are in a live stream. Did you just hear that? 77 human beings alive today because of what

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God is doing through this ministry. Praise God for what God's doing in Michigan. Absolutely amazing.

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So something happened recently, Justin. Do you want to bring us into just what transpired, what you guys are doing right now to combat it?

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Can you take us into that a little bit? Yeah, sure. So we've been there. So the end of worship now conference was last

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May, and we got back on Saturday, and then that Monday we landed at the mill basically, and we've been there ever since.

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Every hour they've been open. Yeah, every hour they've been open since then. And so I guess like 15, 16 months or something like that.

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And from the beginning, so it's a strip mall, so a picture of a strip mall, and then in the corner of the strip mall there's an abortion mill, and there's $2 stores and a

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Chase Bank, and so there's a lot of people coming and going. But since from the beginning, the manager of the abortion mill had a letter from the landlord saying basically we can't be on his property at all.

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So from the beginning we've been on the grass, like this little grass between the road and the parking lot.

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Well, recently about a month ago, a month and a half ago, the whole plaza sold.

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So now that letter is null and void, right? So now I can go to the dollar store, and I can walk out into the parking lot a little bit, or if a mom says

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I can go hand her a bag, I walk over to her and give her a bag and talk to her and share the gospel with her. And Peggy, the manager, does not like this at all.

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And so the other week I was going to the dollar store, and she came over and took a picture of my license plate and my car and stuff, and then she walked back to her car, and then she turned around and started recording and saying, go away from me, you're scaring me, and all these things.

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And I was like, hey, I'm just going to the dollar store. And so I just went to the dollar store, but that was her.

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So then she filed a restraining order, a stalking PPO it's called. So that's where we're at.

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So I haven't been in the mill since this week. You have been going elsewhere, right?

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Just had his GoPro on that whole time. So you can actually see her approach him, record the video, and then once she flips her video camera on her acting job, that she tries to pull off.

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So I imagine you probably have a court date set to argue this before the local judge, correct?

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Yes, October 29th is the hearing to have it terminated. Yes, okay, so we have until October 29th, so you can have your day in court to demonstrate.

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So I imagine you're going to be bringing that video evidence in. Yes, yeah. And then we have a lot of video of her coming over and yelling and cussing and screaming at us.

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And so we've never threatened her. I've never even seen her outside of the abortion clinic.

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That's the only place I see her. And I'm at the abortion clinic not because she's there, but because they're killing babies in there. It doesn't matter if she's there or not.

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Of course. Oh, boys, we'll be praying for you. And man, do we praise

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God for your ministry. Can I just point something out to everyone that I think is just encouraging to me?

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Endabortionnow .com is a ministry of apology, a church. So our church body, this is our ministry to equip other churches and to go out and to try to end abortion ourselves, of course.

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But you know what I love is that here we have this team of believers in Michigan who have their own ministry.

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We're not setting up franchises. This is their effort before God with their community of believers.

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It's their labor. It's their work. Of course, Endabortionnow .com has loved and equipped and encouraged them, but this is their ministry.

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So I would like to just talk about that for a minute, guys. Can you just introduce everybody to how this became a reality for you guys?

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How did you start doing this? And can you just get us up to speed with that? Because 77 children alive today because of this ministry.

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People need to hear about this story and really how you were shaped and how they could do it themselves.

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Yeah, I think I'll start, and then Justin, you can carry it on from the conference. So I've been involved with pregnancy centers and things like that for years, quote -unquote pro -life movement.

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And throughout that time, I just began to realize, man, we've invested a ton of money, and we have really sweet people there, and a lot of them really have a heart for trying to save children.

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But at the end of the day, there's very few abortion -minded women coming there. And so I started getting really burdened with that.

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I was like, man, something more has to be done. There has to be something more we can do to really reach people rather than just waiting for them to come to us because they're not coming.

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And I just began really searching and seeking what more could we do.

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And that's when I actually came across Apology Radio, came across your podcast and your videos, and started seeing what you guys were doing outside of the abortion clinic.

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And to be honest, when I first saw it, I was like, man, that's crazy. I would never do anything like that. That's really intense.

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That's crazy. That's what I thought too. Yeah, so we're in the same boat. But as time went on, it came to a point where I was like, man, that is right.

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If we were back in the slave trade again, would we not want Christians to go to the point of injustice, say, no, don't do this, stop.

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And man, that just hit me. So I started casting a vision at our church, and we're a church plant. We're four years from our start date.

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When we launched this ministry, we were less than 100 people at that time. We've grown a little since then. So I started casting this vision to our church that we not only need to own this, but we need to own this in every way.

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And I cast a vision to support people financially to do this, so they could leave work and make this their exclusive ministry from the support of us.

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So I think that year, it was somewhere around 30 % of our budget went strictly to go out on to save babies, which was pretty cool.

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Yes. So a big part of that strategy, we had two guys. One of them was Justin, and then we sent them out to End Abortion Now conference, and maybe,

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Justin, you could pick it up from there. Yeah, so then when we got back, we just thought that, well, we'll be at the mill, and we were there every hour, and God showed us much encouragement that that's what he wanted us to do, and because we figured we wanted to end this now, right, end abortion now.

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What's the only way we know how right now to raise the level, to bring the intensity and the focus to this issue that's going on, and we should be there when they're open.

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And we've had a lot of encouragement, and in the beginning, we had moms, a number of them come over crying and said,

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Where were you two months ago? I was here, and I had abortion, and no one was out here. Or we had one mom that she drove an hour and a half or rode a bus for an hour and a half to back to the mill, and she just wanted a picture of the ultrasound of her baby, but they wouldn't give it to her, and she came over crying to us, like,

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I wish you were here four months ago. And this mill, we've been there till midnight.

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They've been killing babies till midnight there. Wow. Oh, my goodness. And they do it all in these weird off hours and stuff like that.

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So when we figured that place is open, Christians, we need to be outside of there to offer help and to proclaim the gospel, and God's blessed that and really granted us the strength and encouragement and endurance in that, and that's what we want to spread across to every abortion mill in this country, that we have

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Christians outside of there the whole time they're open, and then that will raise the national attention, and then we'll have to make a decision as a country.

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These Christians, they're out there. You can't go to an abortion clinic anywhere in the country without Christians being there, and so then that will raise attention to it,

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I think. Oh, man, praise God. So 77 children saved. Can you just tell us on a very personal level, what was it like when you got to hold one of these children that were saved from death through this ministry?

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Because, I mean, you guys know it is taxing. This is like the hardest ministry you'll ever do. It is awful.

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It is sometimes scary. It is taxing on you and your family and your church.

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It's not a pleasant ministry. It's not like a homeless ministry where you give somebody a jacket or a pair of socks and toothbrush, toothpaste, and some food where they give you a big hug afterwards and tell you thank you.

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This is like hostility virtually the entire time. From Christians as well. With little moments interspersed of these encouraging moments of Christians coming by and stopping to bless you or somebody turning away.

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But, I mean, overall, it's a lot of very intense persecution and just hatred coming your way.

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So can you just give us a real intimate look and what was it like when you started to experience God showing up and just blessing you by giving you fruit of, here's this woman who's telling you thank you or this baby in your arms.

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Can you share that with everybody? Yeah, so it's really hard to describe, but the first save that we were in contact with, they had twins.

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So we were able to go to the hospital and hold twins. And when you're holding that baby, and I just kept thinking, wow, this baby would be in the dumpster because they just discarded this baby.

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But now I'm holding this child in my hands. And it's all because of God's grace to opening my eyes to this, to repenting from my apathy and complacency and being there.

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And he's blessed me with this opportunity. And if we want to see God move the way that we read about in the

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Bible, it's at the gates of hell. It's in these places. And where we are persecuted and reviled and all things evil set against us, but it says rejoice.

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Because that's just a tiny microcosm, a little glimpse of what Christ went through for us.

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And so we get to rejoice in that. And in those moments when you're holding a baby, you think, wow, it just makes it all worth it.

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Isn't it crazy, guys? One of the things that we had said because we thought this was crazy too before we started doing it.

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And so we didn't know what we were doing except we knew the gospel. We knew we wanted to help these women. So that was it. Our message was don't murder your babies.

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Jesus will save you and forgive you if you turn from your sin to trust in him and will help you. That's it. Those three things, going out and saying that.

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And we had said initially as a church, if we do this our whole lives and we save one child from death, then it's a life well spent.

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And lo and behold, we just start seeing God save dozens of babies through our church and the ministry that we're doing.

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And now through End Abortion Now and churches like you guys now connected and doing exactly the same ministry, there are thousands of children alive today because of Christians out doing this work.

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It's just so amazing to me that one life is worth it.

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It's worth it for one life. But God is just giving us so much fruit where we're holding twins in our arms.

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I got twins running around my church sometimes that were saved from death. It's just incredible.

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It's just humbling. It is. Yeah, it really is. So I want to get everybody praying about your court date,

24:48

October 29th. This is such, let me just say, this is not necessarily like high language here, but this is weak sauce.

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What a weak attempt to try to stop the ministry of the gospel. Guys, we read it and it was bad.

25:02

Like the different things that they had described, I mean, it's bad. Yeah, she said in there that I tell her that she needs to repent and be redeemed and all that stuff.

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Oh, what harassment. Well, let me just say, I trust

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God that this is just going to get squashed. And I believe God is all over your ministry, and this is not going to thwart

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God's purposes there at that mill. I trust God to save so many more children and for God to use you as instrumental in ending abortion in your particular state.

25:36

So be prayerful about that. Let me just ask you this. Can you let people know how they can get connected to you and your ministry in particular and how they can support you?

25:45

Yeah, so our website is just onelifeforlife, all spelled out, onelifeforlife .org, and then our

25:53

Facebook page. You can go on there and see a lot of videos. That's just at onelifeforlife365.

26:01

Excellent. Right on. Excellent. All right, gentlemen. So hopefully we can have you guys back on in a couple of weeks and get an update as to what's going on.

26:09

Yeah, sounds great. Okay, we think about you guys all the time. We pray about you all the time. We are so grateful to God for all that he's doing and raising you guys up and you guys being a light for him.

26:18

Likewise. Appreciate you guys so much. Thank you, brothers. All right, bless you, brothers. God bless. All right, guys.

26:23

Continue to pray for our brothers there in Michigan. That is so awesome. Awesome. I have been so encouraged by the regular posts.

26:35

They don't usually share those with public, though, right? There's some stuff that they have private. They do, but they have their own page also for the ministry,

26:42

One Life for Life. And so, yeah, I see. If you follow their ministry online, they keep everyone updated.

26:48

Okay, good. You share somebody with them, right? Isn't that how we get a lot of those? Yeah, and they've started to actually create their own content now, videos, media.

26:56

Good. I remember they had the video that they did that showed the place next door to the abortion mill that they had gotten, they had purchased, and they're going to turn it into a place to lead women from there.

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And it's literally right next to the police station. Right next to it. So exciting. So please be in prayer for the team in Michigan.

27:13

October 29th is the day where they have to go to court to put this thing down. It's just weak sauce.

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I mean, it's just one of these silly attempts to try to stop the work of the gospel out there. It will not end the work of the gospel out there by any means.

27:28

So there's that. Hey, guys, pray, pray, pray. I know that what can often happen with a ministry like this is that we can start to feel, we can start to sort of get in a lull and just sort of start putting cruise control on, you know, because you're just doing your daily work.

27:45

You're going out preaching the gospel. You're saving children. You can lose some of the passion and fire because it just sort of becomes the mundane.

27:52

I want to encourage you to constantly reassess your heart and the situation and constantly put your mind back, if you're in this ministry, on the task at hand, the need for justice.

28:04

We are trying ourselves as a church to constantly keep ourselves moving and pushing forward.

28:11

There's going to be some interesting things happening here in Arizona. In the next month, we just had

28:17

Pastor Luke, I'm sorry, Zach, speak to the magistrates here at the

28:22

Phoenix City Council formal meeting yesterday. I'm going to actually play some of that audio for you guys right now.

28:29

Right on. Reverend Zachary Morgan.

28:37

This is Pastor Zach speaking to the Phoenix City Council.

28:47

Well, good afternoon. My name is Reverend Zach Morgan, and I'm with Apologia Church, and I just am honored to be here standing before you today.

28:57

I'm a servant of King Jesus Christ, a husband of my lovely wife, father of six, and a very concerned citizen before you.

29:04

I'm honored and humbled to stand before you today and come to you with a heart full of love, urgency, and resolve.

29:09

I know that at the end of these three short minutes, you're going to be challenged, convicted, and maybe even angry with me, but know that I'm commanded by God, your

29:18

God, to love my neighbors and you, all our very important and integral neighbors.

29:24

Therefore, these words I have for you are for your good, the good of our city and our nation. The topic

29:29

I'm bringing to your attention is a subject that we're all aware of, but don't give the attention and priority that it's definitely worthy of.

29:36

This is not a trivial subject. This is of grave importance and needing immediate attention from us all.

29:43

This is incredibly pertinent primarily because it's important to my God and your God, the

29:48

God and judge of all of us who we'll stand before and give an account of on our day of judgment. Listen very carefully to me in these next moments.

29:56

1 ,200 pre -born developing human beings are systematically murdered every single month just in our state alone.

30:03

That's roughly 40 defenseless humans executed every single day. Abortion is the premeditated murder of human babies with malice aforethought.

30:13

The shedding of innocent blood is bringing compounded calamity upon our nation. Our Lord and God hates abortion.

30:21

This is not my opinion. Listen to God's word. There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him.

30:27

Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood. Our God commands us not to murder.

30:34

The killing of an innocent baby in the womb is murder in the eyes of God. And like I said, the shedding of innocent blood is bringing nothing but disastrous consequences that we've been dealing with for decades.

30:46

Since Roe v. Wade, 60 million human beings have been executed, future men and future women dead.

30:53

Mothers bringing these babies to an abortion clinic to pay for them to be dismembered or chemically killed is a wickedness with no parallel.

31:01

This must stop now. You all play a very crucial role in the governance of our city and presently have a delegated position of authority by God.

31:09

You must wake up. You must come to your senses. You must act on behalf of the most oppressed people group on this earth.

31:17

Your primary duty is to protect our city's inhabitants. AZ Statute 13 -3603,

31:24

I would beg you to look that up, says that abortion is illegal in our state and punishable by law.

31:31

With all the love and respect I can give to you, do your duty. Do your duty and uphold this law.

31:38

Look what God commands you in his word. Rescue those who are being taken away to death. Hold back those who are stumbling towards the slaughter.

31:47

That's our duty. We have to act according to this most important priority now.

31:54

And I want to encourage all the residents that you can get involved at endabortionnow .com and join us in this most important fight.

32:02

As I said, I appreciate the time. Thank you. Now that is a distinctly

32:07

Christian approach to fighting against abortion. Praise God. That is what we want you to hear.

32:13

We are, of course, not God. We are fallible human beings. We make mistakes. We fall short.

32:20

But we know what God's standards are. And we know how people's hearts change. We know how regeneration takes place.

32:26

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. It's God's word. That's how faith comes.

32:32

And the Bible teaches that it is the gospel that's a power of God for salvation. If you want to see human hearts change to the degree that they no longer want to kill innocent pre -born children, you cannot get at the human heart through humanistic principles and secular methodologies.

32:50

You cannot change the human heart in terms of how it thinks about the pre -born and murdering innocent human beings.

32:58

You cannot get at that human heart and transform it through just mere logical persuasion or trying to chunk away at abortion and make abortion maybe a little less comfortable or just sort of make it not over 20 weeks.

33:14

19 weeks. Let's move our way down. Or abortion clinics are really, really dirty.

33:19

They ought to be cleaner. Right. I'm sorry. That's not how you change the human heart.

33:24

You're not going to do it. You're not going to end abortion in a nation because you start putting legislation in that says we need cleaner abortion mills.

33:31

Really? Do we think that during the time of slavery that the right thing to have done would have been to suggest that slave owners give more humane living conditions for slaves?

33:42

Shouldn't it just have been that the kidnapping and enslaving of a human being is immoral, wicked, and deserves the death penalty, which is what

33:52

God's Word says? Ought not it to be? This is an image -bearer of God. Don't you dare kidnap and enslave a human being.

33:59

Shouldn't that just have been the standard? Isn't that what we would say it is today? Think about it today. When you think about it post -slavery, how do we think about slavery today in terms of better living conditions for slaves, making it more comfortable for them, making sure they all have a pillow and a blanket and a nice comfy cushion?

34:17

Or do we think about it today with it all behind us and we're saying it can never happen again.

34:23

You cannot take an image -bearer of God, a human being, and enslave them. It is not allowed.

34:29

It is unjust under all circumstances. Isn't that how we think about it today? So how come now that we're before abortion, we're trying to chunk away at abortion in a way we would never suggest to people if we can go back in time that they should fight against the injustice of slavery?

34:43

If we're going to fight against abortion, we have to do it consistently. And as Christians, and Pastor Zach Morgan yesterday before the

34:49

Phoenix City Council did just that as a Christian. Yeah, I think it might be good too to just remind people that what we're doing and what we're trying to do in engaging the magistrates might seem unique, but it's not novel at all.

35:03

No. It's not new in the course of history. Right. And in Christian history specifically, you have

35:09

Christians who established nations that believed in the continuity of God's covenant.

35:14

Yes. The Christians that settled in the colonies and many other places were wedded to that idea that God was furthering his gospel message and it was their responsibility to speak prophetically to the magistrates to remind them of that covenant to which they were bound.

35:31

Yeah, that's right. That's why you have the call, for example, of presidents back in the day to put their hand on an open

35:38

Bible rather than a closed Bible to be sworn in in the book of Deuteronomy because they realized something.

35:44

We're so disconnected from our long and storied history that we've forgotten these things, but they took the responsibility on themselves for their nation and they took the mantle up of prophets to remind their leaders to do justice for the oppressed, to uphold the cause of the widow and the orphan.

36:02

And that's really the essence and the spirit of what we're trying to capture because abortion is not just an individual sin, it's a national one.

36:12

When our nation codified into law child sacrifice, it went from being individual to a national sin.

36:20

And what Zach is trying to articulate in that is national sin brings national calamity. It brings judgment from God because God destroys nations for practicing child sacrifice.

36:31

Yeah. And if we want to in any way resemble the New Testament apostles, we're going to have to do what they did and be accused of what they were accused of in Acts chapter five.

36:40

Which is? When they went before the magistrates and they said, you killed the author of life, but God has raised him from the dead.

36:48

You're the ones that shed innocent blood. And the charge against them was, you're filling Jerusalem with this teaching of the resurrection and you're trying to bring this man's blood upon us.

36:58

Right. That was the charge that Christians today need to be guilty of. Right. That's the charge that we need coming down on us from our magistrates.

37:06

The shedding of innocent blood is condemned by God. He's going to judge the nation, any nation that practices it.

37:12

You better repent in a hurry. Right. And we would be effective.

37:18

I like how you said that. We would be effective as a church if the magistrates say to us, when we're speaking prophetically to them, you intend to bring these children's blood upon us.

37:29

Yes. The answer is yes. Because it's your God -ordained duty and role to uphold justice for the preborn, for every human being, and you're not doing it.

37:38

And in particular, we have in Arizona, AZ Statute 13 -3603. Very good. That is the statute that criminalizes abortion today in Arizona.

37:48

In Arizona right now, it is illegal to have an abortion. People say, well, not really because everyone's doing it.

37:53

Right. Because we have bought into the fiction that the Supreme Court creates law. It doesn't. According to our Constitution, it doesn't.

37:59

The states have a right to reject the unjust opinion of the court. And the lesser magistrates have to do their duty before God and resist this tyranny from above to protect the innocents below.

38:12

That's critical. And I was going to say, we're not even the first group of people to do this in the last 30 years.

38:19

There's guys like Rusty and Operation State of America. These guys have been doing this for a while. They're relatively newcomers.

38:24

But we have this reach. We're saying we want to start something Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the

38:34

U .S. Can you imagine if we had people going regularly to the top 10 cities in the

38:41

U .S. speaking to their city council? And I want to read Proverbs 29, 18, which says, where there is no prophetic vision that people cast off restraint, but blessed is he who keeps the law.

38:50

So if we can get teams regularly going to the top 10 cities, I'll tell you what they are. It's New York, L .A.,

38:57

Chicago, Houston, then Phoenix, Philly, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, San Jose, Austin, Jacksonville, San Fran, Columbus, so forth and so on.

39:05

Let's get teams going to these cities regularly casting this prophetic vision and calling our magistrates to repent.

39:15

That's good. Yeah, I like that. That's great. Hey, do that. Hey, everyone hear that? There's 231 people watching live right now on YouTube and more than that watching on Facebook, I believe right now.

39:25

So do you hear that? Why don't we as local churches, pastors, please listen especially.

39:31

It's our duty to lead our people into the fight. Go to your local council, your city meetings and speak prophetically to them with the word of God.

39:40

Call them to repentance. Call them to uphold justice for the pre -born. Pastor Luke is exactly right.

39:45

If we can across the United States speak to our magistrate in that way, I believe that God can do amazing, powerful, powerful, transforming things.

39:54

And by the way, it's part of our tradition as Christians within the church. There's a fantastic book

40:00

I have on my shelf. Actually, it's two volumes big. It's a political sermons from the church. And what it is, is essentially pastors that were invited to consistently speak to the magistrates and it's their sermons.

40:12

It is epic. Epic. I have to be honest, reading those sermons that were preached to the magistrates on a regular basis from the

40:22

Christians early on in American history, you understand where the war for independence came from.

40:28

You understand why those people fought that way. You understand how the magistrates are working the way that they did.

40:34

It wasn't just in limbo, sort of just happening suspended in midair. It was because the

40:39

Christian ministers of the gospel were speaking the law of God to the church and to the magistrates.

40:46

It was going consistently. The black robes were leading the black robe regimen.

40:51

Against England and the black robes were speaking prophetically to the magistrates. You must obey

40:57

God. And that's what needs to take place now. Let's rise up church and do it. Well, in the five, five,

41:03

I know we don't have time to get into this discussion, but 501c3 has done its job, right?

41:08

So now Christians like, well, I, I'm a 501c3. I can't speak to the magistrates. Oh yes, you can.

41:14

Oh yes, you can. So they, they put this, you know, this, this group in, in place where ultimately it just, it restrains the church.

41:23

You have every right to speak to the magistrates and call them to repent.

41:29

I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad you brought that up. I, I, I forgot about that. So 501c3, you don't believe the lies.

41:37

You still speak to the magistrate and to these issues because God commands you to. It's part of our religion.

41:42

It's part of our faith. And yes, it's a religion. God, it's part of our worship and our religious requirements before God.

41:53

You uphold justice. You fight these fights. So if the government tells me you're not allowed to speak, I say,

41:58

I must obey God rather than men. But there's also another option for you. You could just set up a 508.

42:04

The 508 is specifically designated to basically tell the government go pound sand. We're going to worship

42:09

God. Okay. So we're good with that boys. Good. Yes. Okay. So let's go quickly into the state of theology, the stateoftheology .com.

42:20

This is upsetting. And I believe that it explains a lot of what we're talking about in terms of the ineffectiveness of the church in the

42:30

West today, particular in the United States. Here it is. This is from Ligonier, right guys? Yes. Okay.

42:36

The state of theology. What do Americans believe about God, salvation, ethics, and the Bible? Ligonier Ministries and Lifeway Research partnered to find out these are the fundamental convictions that shape our theology.

42:47

What do Americans think about God, Jesus Christ, sin, and eternity? This is again Evangelicals.

42:53

Ready boys? Ready. All right. So let's just go through this. You guys stop me as you please.

42:59

Evangelicals. Here's the statement. Statement number 11. Please hear this guys. This is so upsetting.

43:06

Okay. It gets worse for me. So you'll see. You'll see. Before we get started.

43:11

Go ahead. Can we maybe explain who they asked us to? Yeah, yeah.

43:16

Sorry. I don't actually know. So I was hoping you would. So it was Evangelical respondents in 2018.

43:23

So this is current data. Yeah. Very up to date. Yeah. So very up to date. So this is right where we're at right now.

43:29

And this is in the United States, Evangelicals. So these are people who profess to be Evangelicals. Statement number 11.

43:35

Everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature. It says that 52 % of Evangelicals agree that everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature.

43:49

Wow. Good by nature. 52 % of Evangelicals agree.

43:55

It's over half. And to the degree on the chart, it's strongly agree, somewhat agree, not sure, somewhat, and strongly.

44:05

So 52 % of Evangelicals agree. Of course, the Bible would flatly contradict.

44:12

Yeah. How important a reformed biblical understanding of man's condition for God is. Okay. Explain that quickly.

44:18

Give us a minute burst on that. So if you take what the Word of God says about the condition of man, you understand that man is totally unable to come to God.

44:26

He's a rebel against God. He's hostile. And even his best day of righteousness is filthy rags before God's sight.

44:33

Right. That's what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that even the self -righteous works that we do that are supposedly good are actually just nonsense before a holy

44:42

God. We don't have anything to offer God. We come to him absolutely empty -handed.

44:48

He's the holy one. And that's another thing within the survey that they harped on was that from the results, you can tell there's a lack of the understanding of the holiness of God.

44:59

Oh, yeah. So how set apart God is, how other he is, how morally blameless and pure and without sin he is.

45:07

So suffice it to say, a proper understanding of who God is and who we are.

45:14

And the only way that we understand that is by his revelation. And starting with the revelation of Scripture, who he has revealed himself to be.

45:21

He's holy. That is the attribute that describes God more than any other attribute in Scripture.

45:28

God is holy. Yeah. And then moving on from there, what is our condition before God? Are we just a little bit sick?

45:35

Are we by nature good people deep down? Ephesians 2, by nature children of wrath.

45:43

Right. And I think just to tack on to that, I think Luke and I were talking about this a little bit earlier, how much

45:50

Gnostic thought has influenced us as Christians. And even with something like this, the

45:57

Gnostic view is separated into two stories. The upper story is the immaterial, the value realm.

46:03

Lower story is the fact realm, what's empirically verifiable. We've taken that and even applied it to this kind of a category where we say, okay, yes, the actions of the body that the person committed were bad, right?

46:16

They were actions in the body. They were socially conditioned by the person's environment, upbringing, all these different factors.

46:22

But the immaterial essence of the person, the upper story, is still good ultimately.

46:28

We've divided the two so that way no one's responsible ultimately for their sin before God.

46:35

And so we've done complete injustice to the Word of God and Scripture and what God says about our condition before him by adopting pagan, unbiblical mindsets about the nature of man.

46:46

Andrew Sandlin was talking about that and he called it the ghost in the machine. Exactly. It's the driver of the car that somehow your body, your true self is the immaterial essence.

46:57

It's your consciousness, right? And then your body is the car which is just an object that you use to further your own desires.

47:04

It's not actually intrinsic to who you are. It's extrinsic. It's just this machine that you're driving.

47:11

And that, by the way, is the worldview that underlies abortion, that underlies transgenderism, homosexuality.

47:16

Your body is just simply this mass of tissue that can be used for purposes that you deem fit to fulfill your desires of your immaterial essence.

47:26

Boom. Wow. Wow. Well, we might get through two of these today. That was good. Yeah, we got to go a little faster.

47:32

Sorry. Now you know why. No, but I didn't want to stop you because it's too good. No, it's good. We're short on time today.

47:38

Okay, statement number three. This was upsetting. God, again, and for those of you guys that are just joining us right now, wherever you're at on whatever streaming device or whatever's going on, this is the

47:49

State of Theology Ligonier and Lifeway teamed up to interview and question evangelicals in 2018.

47:57

They're questions related to Jesus, Scripture, the Bible, all those things. And so these are the answers.

48:03

So God accepts the worship of all religions, including

48:08

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Let me just ask you, so you guys are live right now.

48:15

How do you think evangelicals ought to respond to a question like that? What do you think?

48:21

Isn't it obvious right now to all of us? Like, well, the answer is obvious. Jesus is the way, truth, and the life.

48:28

No man comes to the Father but by Him. One God, one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. It's obvious.

48:35

God accepts the worship of all religions, including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Evangelical respondents in 2018, 51 % agree versus 42 % disagree.

48:48

There is a change, by the way. This was also asked in 2016 of evangelicals. And in 2016, it was 49 % agreed, 43 % disagreed.

48:57

So you see a 2 % change there. It is going up, apparently. It might be negligible, but it's still upsetting.

49:06

So, yeah, that's very, very sad. It's a core part of the Christian faith and the message of Jesus. He is the only way to God.

49:15

Think about what Jesus says in John chapter 8 and compare that to what evangelicals in 2018 are saying about Jesus.

49:21

Jesus says, unless you believe ego eimi, you'll die in your sins. Unless you believe I'm God, I'm Yahweh, you're going to die in your sins.

49:31

American evangelicals go, ah, pish posh. Well, it's inclusivism, is what it is. To sum it up in one word, inclusivism.

49:38

So basically, if people mean well, they don't have to have the true biblical Christ. Now this one, when

49:44

I was reading through this, I looked at it and I go, as I read it, I immediately go,

49:50

I already know everyone answered in the positive for that because it makes so much sense.

49:57

I'll just read it. Statement number 13, God counts a person as righteous, not because of one's work, but only because of one's faith in Jesus Christ.

50:08

Everybody goes, oh yeah, we're saved just because of what Jesus did. Everybody loves grace. Everyone loves that grace, y 'all, which

50:15

I do too. We do too. I'm big on grace. But what's important here is to note the tear away, the pull away from the

50:22

Christian message in terms of our sin, our nature as sinful. Everyone is truly, truly fallen and not good.

50:29

And then Christ being the exclusive way, American evangelicals go, half of them go, well, no, not really.

50:36

But then you go, but how are you saved? Is it through your righteousness or another foreign righteousness? And everyone goes, oh no, that's the grace of God.

50:42

I need Jesus. Why? Because they know in their heart of hearts, they're not by nature good. Good point. Oh, here we go.

50:49

Finding. 91 % agree. 91 % agree that it is only through Jesus' righteousness and through faith in him.

50:57

So I say to that, well, good, but that needs some context. Definitely. Anything you guys want to say about that?

51:04

No. Okay. It's going to get even more apparent with the next one. Here's the question. Who is he? Statement number two.

51:09

There is one true God in three persons. God, the father, God, the son, and God, the Holy spirit.

51:15

I was like, hey, all right. 97 % agree.

51:21

There is one true God, three persons. God, the father, God, the son, God, the Holy spirit. Yeah, one of them, right? 97 % agree.

51:26

I'd say it's pretty good. Yes. Yes. Evangelicals. Good, good, good, good. And then the next one.

51:32

And then the wheels fall off. It all completely falls apart. One God, three eternal persons. And then statement number six.

51:39

This was so upsetting. Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

51:49

Now let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question right now. Watching live. Listen to what

51:54

I just said. Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God, the father. How ought evangelicals to answer that?

52:05

Considering they just affirmed the Trinity. Yeah, keep in mind that. They just affirmed the Trinity. Yeah. 2018, 78 % agree.

52:17

78 % of American evangelicals interviewed agree that Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

52:29

78 % of evangelicals believe that Jesus is a created being. We love Jesus and what he can do for us, but we have no idea who he is.

52:37

I like that word you just made up though, creatist. Did I? I need to eat lunch.

52:42

He's the first and best creatist. Combined created and greatest. Having a very rough week as a pastor and not eating enough food.

52:49

78 % agree that Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

52:56

Wow. Powerful stuff here, guys. And if we want to know how to affect the world, to affect the culture with the gospel, it's going to start with our knowledge of the true

53:07

God and the true gospel. There's not going to be any change or transformation in the world around about us if we don't have the right

53:15

God and right gospel. And the fact that 78 % of American evangelicals believe that Jesus was created by the

53:21

Father is so upsetting. It's so upsetting. U .S.

53:26

adults, the holiness of God. Are you ready for this?

53:34

Okay. Ready. Even the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation. What do you think about that?

53:41

Do you agree with James in James chapter 2? Whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

53:51

Keep the whole law, stumble in one point, guilty of the whole thing. That's what James says. Well, American evangelicals, they found that even the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation.

54:02

23 % agreed. Great job, 23%. Versus 69 % disagree.

54:09

69 % of American evangelicals do not believe that ultimately sin separates us from God.

54:17

Again, there's that. The first question we read, you know, we think that we offer something.

54:24

Right. Yeah. That there's something good within us that we can produce our own righteousness.

54:30

Statement number 20. Worshiping alone or with one's family is a valid replacement for regularly attending church.

54:35

I am so glad they asked this question. Yeah. Yeah. That's where all the satellite campuses come into play. So glad they asked this question.

54:41

58 % of American evangelicals agree in 2018 that worshiping alone or with one's family is a valid replacement for regularly attending church.

54:50

So apparently they don't agree with the writer of Hebrews, says not to forsake the gathering yourselves together and to submit to those who are in authority over you.

54:57

All those qualifications for pastors, deacons, and all that together, one another, love one another, forgive one another, all the meeting together on the first day of the week, gathering together for worship, all that.

55:08

Just first century weirdness. Yeah. You know, we, we get a lot of messages from people that are asking questions.

55:14

They should be asking their pastors, um, you know, and I, and I usually, you can usually tell, you know, and I'll just,

55:21

I'll try to answer questions about that. I'll be like, Hey, do you have a pastor? And they're like, no, well, and then

55:27

I'll send them a link that says, here's a church in your area you can go to. But like, that's, that's where we're at. And so I'm just saying this because we're not your pastors.

55:35

I'm glad to help you and send you links and encourage you. Glad to be a blessing, yes. But I am not your pastor and I cannot, it's not possible for me to pastor you long distance.

55:44

That's right. So just for the record. Like a long distance relationship. Can I suggest this? Is there a connection between this majority of people believing that you don't need to be a part of a local church and 78 % of American evangelicals thinking that Jesus was created by the father?

56:02

Is there a connection between those two things? I think there's probably a connection. Or how about this one? Statement number 30.

56:08

Religious belief is a matter of personal opinion. It is not about objective truth. Upper story.

56:15

Religious belief is a matter of personal opinion. It's not about objective truth. This isn't really true. It's just a feeling, right?

56:22

60 % of American evangelicals in 2018 agree that religious belief is a matter of personal opinion.

56:29

It's not about objective truth. Yeah, that's powerful. That's powerful.

56:35

Wow. The Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn't apply today. The Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn't apply today.

56:43

American evangelicals 2018, 44 % agree. Well, not as bad as some of the other ones.

56:49

Little there. Yeah. Here we go. Abortion is a sin, 52 % agree, 38 % disagree.

56:56

American evangelicals, professing evangelicals. Here we go. Only those who trust in Jesus Christ alone as their

57:03

Savior receive God's free gift of eternal salvation. 62 % of participants age 18 to 34 agree, up from 53 % in 2016.

57:12

Oh, there you go. I like how there was zero not -sures on this one. All the others had a bunch of not -sures.

57:18

Everybody was pretty - Everyone was positive on that one. Yeah, or negative, but - The Bible, like all sacred writings, and on this, the

57:25

Bible, like all sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths, but it's not literally true.

57:33

53 % of participants 18 to 34 agree. Wow. Higher than in 2016.

57:40

So over half of evangelicals believe that, like all sacred writings, the

57:46

Bible contains helpful accounts of ancient myths, but it's not literally true. And there you go, brothers and sisters.

57:54

Someone did comment and say that there's Catholics included in this number because they would consider themselves evangelicals.

58:01

And if you take out, you can actually pull out the Catholics and the numbers get better, but still, it's still, this is where we're at, so.

58:08

Yeah, yeah. I know I shared this the other day, and I was like, I think this very accurately displays why our culture is where it's at.

58:17

Yeah, yes. Agreed, agreed, agreed. All right, guys, so let's move quickly into the next little segment here.

58:26

Oh, let's just go kind of fast. All right, so last week, if you guys watched the show last week, we did a little bit of a response to some gentlemen who, well, they did a program, a little show about us.

58:42

It was apparent in watching some of the comments that they made that they weren't very clear about who we are, what we believe, and they did a follow -up video after our discussion last week.

58:54

And honestly, because we're so busy with pastoral duties and speaking to the local city council and some other things, we haven't got a chance to listen to the entire hour -long video.

59:04

I've only made it about 20 minutes in, and it was a difficult 20 minutes, I'll tell you that.

59:10

And just because it just is clear that I think maybe on the one gentleman,

59:16

Caleb, I think Caleb, it seems like he's more committed to trying to understand perspective than the other gentleman.

59:25

That's fair. It doesn't seem that he's really even concerned himself with trying to understand really our position at all, which is disheartening.

59:34

So from our perspective, what we wanted to do last week is just respond a bit. I made comments last week that we don't fully understand their perspective, and we made comments related to comments that they made in the video.

59:46

I even said several times, I don't want to make too many assumptions. And so what we said was if they believe such and such, then this is what we would say in response to it.

59:57

But I just wanted at least for today's show, we're running out of time here, play some of their response just to give you somewhat of an idea of what we're dealing with when communicating with these two gentlemen.

01:00:10

As they started off their show in response to our show, well, I'll just play it. This was one of the first comments that were made.

01:00:18

Jeff Durbin, he's a very accomplished martial artist. I think he has five black belts. Five black belts, wow.

01:00:24

That takes a lot of dedication. Oh man, and he was like a champion and I watched some videos of him fighting and I would never want to fight him with this, that's for sure.

01:00:39

He's very impressive. And one of the things that the guys here in the office said is that he's noticed that people who are well -versed in martial arts tend to really enjoy the fight of it.

01:00:54

Maybe not fight, maybe that's that, but you know. Oh, the spar. The sparring, right, exactly. And so it's interesting to see

01:01:01

Durbin kind of try to respond to this. Now, I just want to say briefly, and I'm not going to give a lot of credence to what they're saying here.

01:01:13

I just want to say, just a suggestion there.

01:01:20

It just bothers me because you obviously don't know me that my being a martial artist somehow plays into my loving to fight theological battles.

01:01:30

I can assure you that my desire to fight these theological battles is a love for God and a love for my neighbor and is not connected to my five black belts or my being a world champion or anything like that at all.

01:01:41

It's not for the sport of it. Our doing these videos, this ministry itself, let me just say, is not for the sport of it.

01:01:47

So it's a bit disheartening to hear you guys suggest such a thing. And I'll say too, the only reason we're even having this discussion is because they initiated a video mischaracterizing us.

01:01:59

Right, so continuing on. I wonder if he spent more time with martial arts study and practice than in the

01:02:10

Word of God. We call that here at Apologia Radio a

01:02:18

Jesus juke. So this gives everyone just a bit of an idea of what we're dealing with with these two gentlemen.

01:02:28

Starting off the programming talking about, you know, we talk about how he's a martial artist and they really love to spar.

01:02:35

Martial artists love to spar. And then, of course, the really, really low blow and just jab.

01:02:42

I wonder if he spent more time practicing martial arts than reading his Bible. I just, you know, it's not something

01:02:50

I would want to do. I'll just give you my commitment on that. It's not something that I want to do to just deliver a low blow and a jab like that.

01:02:57

If I'm going to say something confrontational and very straightforward to you, it's going to be based off of your theological beliefs and system.

01:03:05

I'm going to address your system. I'm not going to say, hey, you know, this gentleman, let's say he likes to ride bikes.

01:03:12

I'm not going to find out he likes to ride bikes and go, I'm wondering if he's reading his Bible more than he's riding his bicycle. It's just an unnecessary jab.

01:03:20

That's called ad hominem. Yeah, and it just doesn't further the discussion. And honestly, I have no respect for that kind of communication.

01:03:28

He's certainly a brother in the Lord. I don't want to put him down. And actually, that was, I think, one of the most disappointing things at the end.

01:03:33

Thank you, Caleb. Next, let's play this portion so you guys can get a little bit of a handle on what we're dealing with here.

01:03:40

This was, again, this is maybe the first 20 minutes of the show. This is about 10 minutes in, and this was very, very hard to hear.

01:03:49

Like, not even trying to interact with that kind of realm of scholarship. And I'm not,

01:03:56

I've watched more of their videos to try to understand exactly where they're coming from in terms of their view of end times.

01:04:03

It seems to me, and I, you know, this could be, they might balk at this, and so, you know, but from what

01:04:10

I've understood, it almost feels like they're like, they got like a post -millennial, post -millennial.

01:04:20

So, pause there, Caleb. Thank you. And let me just say, it shouldn't have been, let me just put all the cards on the table.

01:04:27

It shouldn't have even been sort of, like, foggy or hazy. We are hardcore, pipe -hitting, post -millennialist

01:04:35

Calvinists, and that's obvious to everybody. I mean, hundreds of hours of content videos, preaching around the world on this subject.

01:04:43

You get criticized for talking about it too much. Yeah, yeah. So, it's not kind of like we're post -millennialists.

01:04:48

We are in the Puritan tradition, and like virtually everybody on this continent, early on in America, we are post -millennialists.

01:04:58

Our patron saint, Athanasius, he's, yes, we are hardcore, unashamed, post -millennialists, absolutely without question.

01:05:11

So, Caleb, thank you for taking note of that. But this was interesting.

01:05:17

Listen to the definition. You know what the Dominion theologians, like the idea, and I, again, you know, like was it

01:05:23

Gary North and Rush Dooney? The idea that, at least the way I understand it, is that wealthy

01:05:32

Christians should expand their capital, right?

01:05:37

Expand their material possessions, because this is, in fact, foundational to God's kingdom in the world.

01:05:48

That might be the worst definition I've ever heard. I want to say this with as much gentleness and respect to you as I possibly can.

01:05:55

That was one of the most embarrassing, embarrassing answers

01:06:00

I have honestly ever heard of somebody trying to describe post -millennialism.

01:06:06

It almost seems like you have never, ever studied this, never done your homework on it, and you're trying to speak publicly on it.

01:06:17

So, I just want to say, and I mean this with as much gentleness as possible, that is an embarrassingly bad answer.

01:06:26

Caleb, good on you, trying to figure it out. Yes, we're post -millennialists, but this gentleman here next to you trying to explain post -millennialism,

01:06:35

I mean he even mentioned North and Rush Dooney, so he knows their names. Those, of course, are men who, yeah, they're post -millennialists.

01:06:43

We don't necessarily agree with North and Rush Dooney on everything, but I know for sure that North and Rush Dooney would never define post -millennialism like you just said.

01:06:52

Neither would the Puritans, or anybody in church history who was post -millennial or has been post -millennial.

01:06:59

I just want to say this with respect to you, that was an embarrassingly bad answer. I just can't imagine doing that in terms of trying to define a position and say, you know, this is what they believe.

01:07:15

Wealthy Christians expanding their material possessions. Yeah, and I'll say, Caleb, if you watch this,

01:07:22

I had a very hard time. I got 23 minutes in. I had a very hard time watching anymore after this point.

01:07:28

When I got to that, I cringed. I was like, come on. You asked us when we said, please do your homework, this is exactly what we mean.

01:07:36

No homework was done. A completely ridiculous explanation was thrown out for something that's not even in the same universe.

01:07:47

It just makes it hard for you to be credible. It makes it hard to take you guys seriously.

01:07:54

I'm glad you said that. I think your friend, and I can't remember his name and I apologize, I think he even made a jab somewhere in there about being scholastic.

01:08:05

This is the farthest thing from that. Go ahead. I think that's the point. It's an issue of credibility.

01:08:12

We made a comment last week when we responded to a short bit of your video that we're not going to make too many assumptions on your beliefs.

01:08:18

We defined our terms, this is what we believe, here's what we believe, and we said that if somebody is teaching

01:08:25

A, B, or C, then this is what we would say in response to that, but not making too many assumptions on your belief.

01:08:31

We played through some of your comments and directly responded to your comments themselves in terms of your own definitions and those sorts of things.

01:08:41

So that's what we're trying to do. We admit that we don't know everything about you guys, and we've tried to keep our comments to a minimum in terms of if somebody is teaching this, this is how we would respond.

01:08:53

But what is just so difficult to take in in listening to this, and I haven't got through the whole thing yet, and I think

01:08:59

Luke's exactly right, it really does speak to your credibility in terms of when you make comments like this or you make jabs at me in terms of I wonder if he's read the

01:09:09

Bible as much as he's practiced martial arts and you define post -millennialism as wealthy

01:09:14

Christians expanding their capital and their wealth to expand dominion or whatever else you said, it just goes toward your credibility.

01:09:22

And for someone who prides themselves on being a scholastic, and I'm sure you know a lot in terms of the

01:09:29

Greek language, all those things, I would just call you to just do better.

01:09:35

Do better in the future in terms of response. So that's it. We wanted to give you guys just a bit of an intro.

01:09:40

I have been so busy this last week, haven't got a chance to review this whole thing. I will be happy to respond to much of what is said in here, and I'm gonna.

01:09:48

But I just wanted to play through at least some of that so you guys can just get a handle on what they said. So that's it for it.

01:09:55

Do you guys have anything else you want to bring up? We did talk about Australia and New Zealand. Yes, yes, yes.

01:10:01

Anything else we need to announce? I don't think so. No, I think we're good. All right.

01:10:07

I'm just loving this music. No, I do, I do, I do. I really do. So October 31st,

01:10:13

October 31st, Reformation Day. 34th. We are dropping a new program brought to you guys by the creators of Apologia Studios.

01:10:23

It is a new program. It is called Cultish. Jeremiah Roberts and myself are doing this program.

01:10:29

We're dropping the first four episodes. They'll be available for you guys through all your devices and all your platforms.

01:10:37

You're going to be seeing it at Apologia Studios on Facebook and on YouTube. Some advertisements for those first episodes.

01:10:44

We're going to introduce you to Apollo Quiboloy. He is the Filipino son of God. He calls himself the

01:10:49

Messiah, the son of God on earth today. We're going to introduce you to Jim Jones, the Marxist, socialist, atheist preacher who led over 900 people to their deaths in Guyana, South America.

01:11:02

We're going to introduce you to the Jesus of the cults. We're going to introduce you to our friend Andrea Schwartz, who was a

01:11:07

Scientologist. Scientology, when she left with her husband and came to Christ, put a hit out on her and her husband.

01:11:15

Tried to kill her and her husband. Amazing interview. They're all going to drop at the same time. Cultish, right here at ApologiaStudios .com

01:11:24

forward slash cultish. You'll be able to get it October 31st. Thank you all for listening.

01:11:29

Make sure you guys go sign up for all access at ApologiaStudios .com When you guys do sign up for all access, you partner with us in this ministry to communicate the gospel around the world.

01:11:40

And you're an integral part of all that we do. And so all access, you're going to partner with us and you're going to get every

01:11:46

TV show, every after show, every Apologia Academy, access to all of our content.

01:11:52

And again, you'll be a major part of what God is doing at Apologia Church to bring the gospel to the ends of the earth and provide a defense for the biblical gospel.

01:11:59

Luke the Bear. Peace out. Zach attack. See you guys. I'm Jeff. They call me the Ninja. And we'll catch you next time right here on Apologia Radio.