Road Trip DL: 1 Cor 8, the Shema, and Ignatius

Well, greetings welcome to the dividing line, my name is James white we are on the road yet once again and we are in Colorado where it is raining

Getting some nice thunderstorms up here. Let me before I forget cuz I'm forgetting everything today. I Let me so apologize to my brothers that I was supposed to be on a program with this afternoon and Spaced it completely wasn't in my

I know what happened This this what happens you you arrange something in email it's like, okay

I need to put it in my calendar So you go over and you open your calendar program and you see something else and you go oh,

I've got to do that and you never end up putting it in your calendar and that's what happened and I Apologize and let's reschedule as soon as possible.

But I'm just gonna tell you now it's gonna happen again It's gonna happen again Trying to juggle too many balls and it's

I'm gonna drop them and it's just the way it is My apologies ahead of time.

I hate when that happens. It's very very embarrassing, but that's that's what happens so mr. Program gonna have to catch up on that one and Anyways, so we press on I Would highly recommend that you find the time quickly next couple days

To listen to the last edition of the briefing with dr. Moller. I found it very interesting that he

Dedicated an entire program to one subject he's done that a few times in the past, but not very often and It was on the coming demographic demographic

Democratic Demographic collapse I learned some things that I did not know.

I knew that places like Japan and Italy Were in really bad shape.

I mean really bad shape if you have if you're a replacement factor that is basically

The number of children that women in your society are having you need to have 2 .1

children per woman To maintain your society at its current population level not including obviously people coming in from outside and Many Western nations

Russia Being one of them if you include that as a

Western nation, but Have been below 2 .1 for a long time.

It took America a while to get there, but we are below it and Japan and places like that.

We're so far below it that In reality, there really isn't any hope of turning it around because you can't just decide one day

Okay, everybody start having babies You you as as dr. Mueller said you can't have you can't birth an 18 year old there is a real time gap

In that type of type of situation and so I was unaware

That the lowest I had seen was 1 .2. I think And it's isn't it amazing that Italy is so low

You used to think of Italian families big huge Catholic families, right? not anymore not anymore and Abortion, of course huge factor in all of this birth control huge factor total change in Worldview as to our purpose on earth huge factor culture of death

Hey Lots of babies means lots of life Culture of death doesn't want that You do you don't you think you think there might be something to the fact that They are destroying

Healthy bodies so that they will never have children Never have children You put a 13 year old girl on testosterone and it doesn't take long

Stuff just dies off Can't work anymore. And of course you do bottom surgery and that's it

It's all over You think they're not connected, of course, they're connected. They're all part of the culture

But what I didn't know was South Korea South Korea, I think he said was 0 .8.

I had not heard of any society That was below one Zero point eight is simply non -recoverable it's impossible and So, dr.

Mowlett did an entire discussion on this based on a article in The Economist a

Non -christian article in The Economist that does not have any answers We have answers

But we are seeing some major major changes you understand we're talking about economic collapse

We're talking about depressions simply due to the fact that there aren't enough people to do what needs to be done and People just don't

I don't hear it being talked about and so I would highly recommend to folks you go listen to Today's it is

June 29th Today's edition briefing. Dr. Moller gives you a lot more information there and he always links to other things

And so I would highly recommend that to you I also

I got a text and I'm not sure if rich you're gonna start hearing this but it's raining and it's gonna be raining hard and And Whether this microphone you know the other microphone didn't care if it was raining hard, but you're probably gonna start hearing stuff and Maybe even hearing some thunder and lightning.

There's some big big thunderstorms running by they don't last very long, but They're they're big and there's the roof

It's it's right above me. So no way no way to avoid the live character of the dividing line

I Got a text and I was unaware of this.

I just wanted to make a mention of it On the last program

I mentioned that I was listening to the debate between Chris date and Dale Tuggy and I remember back

It may have been even before we made the first Videos in the studio in The main studio in Phoenix.

I mean this I think this may have been before 2010. I Could be wrong, but I remember doing a

Audio only program with Chris on the deity of Christ and we

It was one of the most in -depth Discussions of the key texts on the subject that that I did anywhere it was was really in -depth stuff and So, you know

Chris has Gone the direction of dealing with the subject of the nature of hell conditionalism annihilation ism all those related issues rethinking hell things like that and I have honestly said

That that is a topic that the vast majority of people that I know of Who hold to what is called a historical orthodox view have never thought through the objections from the other side

It is a Really challenging area and I think I think I stunned a number of people a few months ago when

I said Large majority of New Testament scholars and how do you define that?

Are we talking about believing New Testament scholars professional New Testament scholars, are we talking about Protestant Roman Catholic Orthodox?

There's so many different ways of Adding those things up, but I would say it is a fair statement to say

That the large majority of New Testament scholars are Conditionalists, they they don't believe in eternal conscious punishment in hell

John Stock did not believe in that and I Would say that almost everybody who holds what we would call a creedal perspective

Though a lot of the early creeds didn't dress anything like that either but Do so completely out of tradition and not because they've ever

You know, they've read certain things and yeah Jesus talks a lot about hell and but their questions about well, what does that mean?

What is the duration of hell? what's the purpose of hell and It just seems to me that a lot of people

That's it. That's an area. That's just sort of it's this is out there somewhere and Chris has really gotten into that stuff and and you know taking a strong stand from his his viewpoint on on the topic

I Can I can just see out the front the window of the front door of my

RV? It's raining kitties and doggies outside.

I can see the unit next to me. I can see all the water drops Bouncing off the roof and everything. It's pretty big and I look

Look out the door and here cut first. I see a an umbrella walk by and then there's a line

And here comes this miserable -looking You wanted to go for a walk.

Well, here we are Sorry, it's a live program folks.

There's nothing I can do about it. What a absolutely miserable wet dog Walks by us

Going mom. This is not what I meant, you know, you just have to have to enjoy life have to laugh

It's been a long day. Anyway, I was talking about Chris. Um Chris has done some great debates.

He's a really sharp young guy. Well, I'm sure how young he is anymore Everybody's young to me anymore

But a friend of mine who evidently knows Chris in another context and I think

I know what that connection is Um Mentioned that Chris's wife star

Has a cancerous brain tumor chemo help but did not eliminate the tune of the tumor They're now doing other

Forms of treatment and I couldn't help but think of Warfield and the reality that Warfield could have done so much more than he did in his life as far as production of Literature teaching travel, etc, etc, but he his wife

There's some disagreement as to you know, this was a long time ago on medical stuff but some of the stories that was struck by lightning and was deeply impacted by that, but but she was an invalid and Warfield just wouldn't leave her side he would he would teach he obviously did writing as best he could but he wouldn't leave her side and You know as a result people from from a distance, you know years and years later don't know the background sort of wonder why

Warfield wrote all sorts of great great stuff. But why didn't he do more? No, and so I don't know it not knowing

The commitment he made and I think I think eternity is gonna reveal that We're gonna see where people's hearts were that's a

Scary thing. I think for any of us to be judged in that way but I Would just like to put out there that We've got a fairly decent size audience here and prayers for Chris date and his wife star would be

Extremely appropriate You know once you start getting into your you know, just going into my seventh decade

Looking back and realizing just how blessed I have been health -wise and my wife, you know my wife once she had to Retire from American Airlines or forcibly

Went back to teaching aerobics She I've done all the aging for the couple she's in great shape.

She's just incredible along those lines and we've just been really really blessed and But if you're involved in ministry, you can't it doesn't take long before you know so many people

Who struggle so mightily with health issues and You get married you say for better for worse, but How seriously do we do we take that in the sense of Do we really really?

think about What is involved in? You know a married couple and we're talking real marriage here

Chris has been doing this thing this month where he's been mentioning people who are fighting against the

LGBTQ madness and especially the Trans madness because that really is a madness on a level.

That's hard to discuss and hard to understand But he's been thanking people yet, and I've I've been following his

Posts on that on Twitter. I don't do much. I don't do stuff on Facebook. I just Just not my thing.

So anyway Pray for Chris and his wife and the medical situation they're facing and that the

Lord would grant healing and grace in the midst of all of this because You know,

I I think back to 2011 and the debate that I did at RTS and Jackson with a

Wesleyan That was on total depravity but afterwards a student came up to me with his wife and they had a little child in a stroller and He said that child had a fatal disease that it there was there was nothing that could be done about it and and he he had said that I had helped introduce him to reform theology and sovereignty of God and He said if I if I didn't believe

God had a purpose in this I couldn't survive. I couldn't go through it and I'll always remember that.

Well, I guess I shouldn't say things like that Maybe I won't but I hope and pray

I will always remember that What we a

Pagan said it In a movie one of my favorite movies and It's true, and it's very biblical.

So it expresses a gnomic truth What we do in life echoes in eternity and A Roman soldier said that in that movie gladiator

But it's a very true statement biblically and So Prayers appreciation

There we go, all right so I wanted to talk about I want to get into One do some teaching

We have this wonderful opportunity. We have this wonderful studio and the ability to dive into things and and so I Want to do some teaching

Background to help provide foundation. We've certainly discussed these things in the past at various times

I'm really thankful. I asked The guys in our channel Hey is is the

Is the database with all the dividing lines and stuff You know up and running enough that we could do some searches in it and it was it's not

I guess it's not complete yet I don't know. I'm not sure the exact status right now But a

Search was done for me. I Couldn't believe the stuff that it pulled up it literally

Would would bring up The video of The dividing line where I used a certain phrase with the time indexed

So all yeah, so literally You could put a name a phrase in and you'll get this result and you can scroll through it and When you go to any one of them go, oh,

I think that's it right there You click on it and it starts the

YouTube video of The dividing line at the point where you made the comment

I mean, you're not having to listen through it and Scary I keep saying how absolutely wonderful but how absolutely scary it is and any preacher would understand if someone could go the web and Search everything you've said

In over what what do we have two thousand two hundred dividing lines 181 debates,

I don't know how many sermons just like oh My Hey, but that's what judgments gonna be about at least as far as you know

As discussed by Paul and 1st Corinthians different judgment as to life but what we did so That somewhat behind a

I was actually riding down a mountain this afternoon and Rich sent me a link to Twitter and Dale Tuggy had

Commented yet once again and this is today and He said because host

L you throw it to me Despises philosophers He has never learned from us how reasoning about numerical identity works and This is why he has never had a clear position about the

Trinity one clear enough to argue for or against and Then he gives a link.

I'm sure to one of his own presentation Now one of the things that was very frustrating and listening to the date

Tuggy debate is that Tuggy just simply presupposes Certain categories and can't reason past them and no matter how many times you go.

No, that's not what I'm saying No, your categories are too narrow for what

I'm saying your categories are too narrow for what scripture says it doesn't matter He just defaults back to it.

His is a philosophical perspective It is not determined by scripture at all

His exegesis is determined by his philosophical conclusions. His exegesis is horrifically shallow

Very very bad. The man's not an exegete by any stretch of the imagination and So I just want to respond and say first of all,

I don't despise philosophers I despise philosophy

That does not begin With the one who created all things whether in heaven and earth visible or invisible

Principalities powers dominions or authorities all things created by him and for him He is before all things and him all things soon as they can hold together and that's

Jesus And that includes Dale Tuggy's philosophy as well so it's not a matter of despising philosophers a

Christian philosopher a Man who begins with the authority of Christ as creator the one who has made me

One who's made my mind the one who has the right to determine how far my thinking should go and in what direction it should go a

Person who uses philosophy in the service of the higher revelation

That is found in Scripture. It's a wonderful individual, but you and I both know in the vast majority of philosophical schools today the vast majority of universities

You're not allowed to start there You can't begin there Just not allowed to do it.

That's all there is to it So, um, I do not despise philosophers, but I do despise man -centered philosophies

But I just he has never learned from us. Oh My hair from us

Philosophers, it doesn't matter that I taught Christian philosophy of religion for years at Golden Gate Baptist.

They don't care about that. That's irrelevant That must have been bad who cares um

Yes, I I do not call myself a philosopher just as Dale Tuggy should never call himself a theologian or an exegete.

He's philosopher But the funny thing is the issue of numerical identity this is his major Faux pas over and over again.

He is absolutely certain that the statements of Scripture are

Telling us that the Father alone in exclusion to all else is

God and It doesn't matter if the New Testament, for example

In fact one of the things I was thinking about on the ride today and what we'll be covering all this But let me just mention it in passing before we go to something. It's really important That's related to this

He is so fixated on the identity of Theos as a

Unitarian Concept That he doesn't even give thought to Korea Korea's the the the word that is used in the

Greek septuagint for the divine name itself see they us is is not nearly as specific as Yahweh is

Not nearly as specific and yet who is

Why do we have all these New Testament writers bending over backwards Peter Paul John To identify the

Sun as Yahweh and even in the key passages in in Philippians 2 in the karma

Christi Where Jesus is identified as Yahweh every knee will bow every tongue will confess

Well, that's to the glory of God the Father Yeah, Yahweh Fathers identify as Yahweh the sons identify as Yahweh Spirits identified as the spirit of Yahweh and you know what

Tuggy's responses that makes three gods. Nope. There's only one God Nope can't be because your philosophy is not big enough for the

Bible not even close to it You didn't get it from the Bible. And so when you try to force it on the

Bible you have to throw all sorts of stuff That's that's the essence of these things. So, um

So I've never had a clear position on the tree Okay.

Well, anyhow, all right. Let's see how this is gonna work. Um, I want to start with a text that's directly relevant to what we were just talking about and Once again, let me if you missed the last program in in wanting to Spend some time invest some of the program

In responding to Unitarian arguments, I again have an overarching purpose here

The vast majority of evangelicals aren't ready to deal with the best

Unitarians the best Jehovah's Witnesses the best Muslims Because we we live in a echo chamber and we just are

What we believe is repeated back to us over and over again And so everybody just figures that's what everybody believes until someone comes along and says

I don't believe them And then we haven't thought it through enough to really engage with it and So I don't believe for a second that by Putting emphasis upon these areas and doing teaching these areas that we're leaving behind the subjects

We were talking about before because for us to for example talk about How the church is to interact the state when you hear people saying that look

Jesus Christ has all authority in heaven and earth He was the one he's he's enthroned

After his resurrection Daniel chapter 7 His dominion will never end so what does that mean well

We have to be prepared for someone to say that's not what the Bible is teaching

We have to understand what the foundations are. And so I don't see that and I think I think this is absolutely central to everything else we're talking about is

You have to understand what the Bible teaches about who Christ is absolutely central So I'm going to see

If we can do this and let's see what happens Here is the

Christian Shema the Christian Shema Now, you know what the

Shema is and I find it rather interesting and I know where this came from. I Had to chuckle the first time

I had to chuckle the first time

I Heard this happened at Apologia when we started attending there and That is

Jeff had taught everyone at Apologia And I guess this is something you have to pick up as you come along because we've had hundreds of people

Join the church since I first got there Everybody knows the

Shema in Hebrew which is Right there.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, actually come to think of it. You can actually see all of it Shema Yisrael Yahweh Eloheinu Yahweh Echad here

O Israel Yahweh is our God Yahweh is one and You know when you hear

No, it's still working. You know when you hear the the the sound that some electronic device just shut down You get worried

It's like hmm What did I forget to turn on? Whose battery just died?

I don't know looks like all the power strips are on but It's probably a little entertaining to watch the

Guy trying to do way too much techno stuff anyway So everybody at Apologia can say

Shema Yisrael Yahweh Eloheinu Yahweh Echad This of course is the confession of faith if you if you've looked at for example the

Mishnah Which is the earliest codification of Jewish?

Traditions and rabbinic teachings and stuff like that About 250 years after Christ and then you have the commentary and that's called the

Gemara You put the mission on the Gemara together. You have the Talmud. There's different editions of Talmud too, but That's what the

Mishnah is and there's a whole section in there on The Shema when it's to be said how it's to be said, but the point is it's confession.

It's it's what makes The believing Jewish people one Here or Israel Yahweh is our

God Yahweh is one Deuteronomy 6 4 Now what

I've done on the screen and I'll get my ugly face out of the way is I've given you the

Greek from the Greek Septuagint. Now, this is important. Why because the Greek Septuagint was the

Bible of the early church and In the text we're gonna be looking at It was written in Greek and hence it would be written to people who

Would have access to the Shema Primarily through the Greek rather than from the

Hebrew So you see down below? Akua Israel Korea's half a awesome own

Korea's heist Eston Now the purple doesn't show up real well there, but for those wondering it is heist not ice

That's a rough breather over the Yoda So Akua Israel here

Israel Kodioss hot they asked him own Kodioss heist

Eston now notice what? What term? Rich says it looks great on the screen good

Notice what term? is Repeated twice

In both the Greek and the Hebrew It's in red for those of you looking for it

Kodioss, which is Yahweh the oss Eloheinu It only appears once the term one had heist

Appears once but Kodioss Yahweh appears twice in The Shema, so why did

I call this the Christian Shema? well That's Deuteronomy But then we have what

Paul Wrote to the Corinthians in 1st Corinthians chapter 8 now once again this is a

There are a number of key Christological texts that Come to us in the context of Sermon illustrations practical exhortations and what that means is

What the Apostle is communicating? Was stuff that was already understood by his hearers.

He didn't have to stop and go I need to explain something to you that I didn't tell you about when I was with you

It doesn't do any of that stuff the fact that he can use The these

Illustrations Demonstrates that was something that they already understood and so in 1st

Corinthians chapter 8, he's talking about food sacrifice to idols and he says, you know, there's all sorts of so -called gods those that are called gods idols in the world and Then he says but for us

There is one God the Father From whom were all things and we for him and one

Lord Jesus the Messiah Through whom were all things and we through him

Now just just look at that for a moment, but for us so For those of us who know the truth

Know the true God for us There is one

God the Father From whom were all things and we for him and one

Lord Jesus the Messiah through whom were all things and We through him now.

Does that look familiar to you? Here is the Greek All he mean heist they us ha

Potter hmm heist they us Uh, yeah, we just didn't we just see that in the

Greek subject. Yeah, we did X who top on top guy?

Hey mice ice out on Guy heist curious

Yep, heist and curious Jesus Christus D who top on top?

Hi. Hey mice D. I'll too So you see how it's constructed

You have to us. There's one God the Father and then the description phrase and one

Lord Jesus Christ Jesus the Messiah description phrase This is what

Paul writes to the Corinthians So let's look at the terms we've got

Ice one they us God ice again

Goody us Jesus Christ Lord. So let's put the shema over here across from 1st

Corinthians 8 where Paul summarizes what Christians know and what the pagans in Corinth don't know

Notice the terminology courteous found twice

Here's they us Here's heist use twice one God one

Lord what has Paul done here What has he accomplished here he has taken the

Shema the defining prayer of the Jewish people and he has expanded it

Expanded it in light of The historical reality of the incarnation the ministry death barrel resurrection ascension and enthronement of The Sun the fundamental evidence of the doctrines of Trinity and He's taken the very prayer that defines

The Jewish people the people of God and what now defines the people of God This profession

There's one God the Father from whom are all things and we for him one Lord Jesus Christ through whom are all things and we through him.

So when someone when someone

Says well all through the New Testament God is simply another word for father.

Well, it's not true Not true in Titus 2 13 2nd Peter 1 1 and probably Romans 9 5 and there's as we look at But most the time

Yes Who's Lord is the father not

Lord is is Lord a lesser term

Lord's a more specific term Lord is the term used for Yahweh the

Covenant God of Israel and Who's Lord who's the one

Lord? The Son Jesus Now no one's gonna suggest that that elevates

Jesus over the father. I well, okay the internet has

Proven to all of us saying no one is probably not a wise term People will come up with anything

But the reality is That Kodios is just as exalted a

A title and name as chaos and every time when

John and John 12 41 tells us That the one that Isaiah saw Sitting upon the throne being worshipped by the angels

Yahweh was Jesus When he tells us that when

Peter tells us the same thing when he says sanctify

Christ as Yahweh in your hearts when Paul tells the same thing in the

Number of different times but in the carmen Christi every knee about every tongue confess That's to whom to Yahweh That's done to Jesus Does this in any way?

Denigrate the father no, but it demonstrates that the argument that is being presented by Unitarians Can't fit the fullness of what you actually have in Scripture itself.

There's too much here It is a limiting perspective that has to push out

The broad revelation that you have in Scripture itself. So let's keep that in mind but as you all may have noticed oops wrong wrong a

Drag it to the wrong screen here Sure, this fits over here it does a

Number of you really like this and if you don't I apologize But I want to work through a

Similar statement From the patristic period about which

I know absolutely nothing According to certain people Despite having one of the favorite classes

I taught for Golden Gate years ago was development of patristic theology. That was Not only was that a whole lot of fun.

We actually got to take the class we did a cruise that fit during the time period and I Don't know how this happened.

I don't know what's going on in the economy, but on that cruise we had well over 200 people in our group because if I recall quickly it cost less than $200 to go on it

It was wonderful. It was on the Zondov. It was beautiful. It's a great time. We even had one of the classes in in my cabin and It was great.

It was wonderful. But anyway again, I know nothing about patristics according to Certain individuals, but it's interesting to me that If Corinthians, let's just let's just say

Corinthians is written around 50. I did there's all sorts of arguments as to the exact time frame, but let's say around 50 and And Ignatius is

On his way to Rome and he writes his epistles Around 107 108 now some people try to argue about that, but I'd say 107 108.

It's good good number You're talking less than the 60 year difference Between the

Apostle writing to the Corinthians and being able to assume that they're not going to just Freak out

When he expands the schmock because if this was something new if this was some radical thing

You would expect that he would that the people would freak out because they know what they know what the schmock is

They've they've heard that before and so They didn't freak out

I'm trying to adjust something in the unit here, I apologize I don't know if it'll actually take but we'll try

Come on now do what you're told Okay See if that works.

Anyway They didn't freak out And if he's a good teacher, he's not going to just throw something at them.

They've never heard of before Um and leave them wondering what's gonna what's gonna happen as a result

Hey rich, I found it Rich knows exactly what

I'm talking about. It's back You know, that's what had that's what was making the noise before There's a okay now we've got now

I do need to explain it. Sorry to interrupt things there is a piece of Sort of like styrofoam, wasn't it then styrofoam?

that when they put this thing together, they didn't take it out of the vents or something like that and it keeps running around the vent system and it gets trapped and stuff and makes noise and Rich tried to pull it out of this vent right here.

And all he did was make a hole out of it I will I will I will do it more carefully this time.

But yes, it's right there It has returned Ah RVing it's so much fun.

All right, let's take a look at this. So 60 years have passed Where Paul can

Expand the schmaw and the Corinthians aren't freaked out. All right, so let's

Let's look at this You go. Oh good grief. What is that? I'm only looking at Ephesians 7 2

Um here Ignatius writing the

Ephesians now, by the way Long story and I've told the story a number of times before and somewhere on our website is

A article that I wrote many many years ago called scholastic dishonesty in the

Watchtower and it was I wrote it in response to a

A Horrific article that the Watchtower published trying to say that Ignatius did not teach the deity of Christ They skipped all the direct passages

Where at least 10 times and maybe as many as 14 times Ignatius refers to Jesus Christ as God Not a

God not a lesser God. He wasn't a polytheist Um, he's using the term

God in a New Testament context similar to Milito Sardis and and others that we can mention and The Watchtower Society just quoted from pseudo

Ignatian sources to try to get around this reality, so Here's a text from Ignatius.

He's writing the Ephesians and Again, it's sort of like Paul writing the

Corinthians. It's it's in the flow. It's not like hey, I've got something new to teach you Let me explain this to you.

No it is couched in the language

That indicates that he expects His listeners to understand and To embrace what he's saying without a lengthy

Explanation what it says. Hi. See a tross estin.

There is one physician Sarkic oscar pneumatic oz of flesh and of spirit

Genitas Kai, ah, Danny Danny toss Generate and Ingenerate Be gotten and not be gotten and on throw both a us

God in man That's as close as you're gonna get and remember

Ignatius is one of the earliest writers we have Right the beginning of the second century God in man

That's close. You're gonna get to Not only incarnational languages language, but the

God -man and And and you could almost put it that way the God -man

Yeah, rich says there is there there's the article It's an ale blah

Jehovah's Witnesses historical dishonesty the Watchtower Society. Yeah, it's it's on the website Maybe I'll try to link to it if I remember to do so after this

God in man and Sonata's away a lay than a true life in death true life in death

Kai now notice this phrase begins with Kai the others did not there's a reason because there's two guys

Kai Ek Maria's Kai ek they you So when you have your two guys like that It's both from Mary and from God Both from Mary and from God Proton path a task

I taught a apathies first Able to suffer then

Not able to suffer Jesus Christ.

Ah Sakura Simone. Jesus Christ our Lord. So here's the one physician once again

You have a man going to his death He's going to his martyrdom He's writing to churches as a bishop you're not going to be wasting your time

When you're this is gonna be the most important stuff you can communicate and so what does he say?

There is one physician But that one physician and notice one two, three, four five six statements

That give us Honestly in the year 108 as High a

Christology as we will get at calcetone It really is a flesh and a spirit.

Well, how does that work? You have to have the specifics to believe

Someone once said blessed are those who've not seen and yet have believed right a right after someone who said

I could ask Mukai. How fast my my lord. Am I God of flesh in the spirit?

Generate and in generate now He's emphasizing the contrasts in Jesus.

We would talk about the two natures in Christ but he's emphasizing the contrasts and if you try to Make If You try to say well which period of Jesus's life was this is this pre incarnate or post incarnate and That's not what he's trying to do.

And so you'll it kept become difficult Generate and in generate

God in man God in man That's not the father in man, he's not a modalist some people have accused

Ignatius of modalism He was not a modalist as we'll see in one other cult. We'll look at here before we wrap things up But he does believe he was

God. He was n on throw pole. They asked God in man, and there's

Ignatius using chaos Not in reference to the father in death true life so again

You have the contrast you have giving of that perfect human life and Yet the result being the way

I lay than a True life to all who are in him to him and his resurrection

But then please notice Kai, I'm Maria sky XLU both from Mary and from God You can mock

To nature's speculation all you want The Apostle Paul said they would have not have crucified the

Lord of glory You can't crucify the glorious Lord Unless he's taken on flesh from Mary and from God both

Kai equity is Kai XLU. That's why the Kai is repeated there both and both from Mary and from God First passable and then impassable

So again, there's a change. And so when

I when I listen to Tuggy saying it's definitional. God cannot die Aside from now we have to discuss

What death is it's not cessation of existence But this is again listening to Tuggy is like listening to a lot of my

Muslim friends they share a whole lot in common and The the fundamental assertion that is being made is the same assertion

That's being made by the Muslims and that's why my my debate in 2011 in Australia with Abdullah Kunda is still my favorite after all these years still my favorite with a

Muslim Because Abdullah tried to understand Where we were coming from he read my book he tried to use our language to communicate his understandings and where where the two positions hit is

The Muslim is saying God can create Perfect human nature but he cannot take on perfect human nature and Part of the objection was because that would involve a change in him.

And then when I point out no We're not talking about the divine nature changing at all. We're not talking about you ticking is

I'm not talking about a a 50 % man 50 % God situation, but fundamentally what the

Unitarians are saying is God can create perfect humans, but he cannot take on a perfect human nature and So if you were to do so he could not

Give the life of that individual as A ransom for sin.

He doesn't have that capacity and again Unitarian philosophy is too stinking little to deal

With the broad expanse of divine revelation. So you just get rid of the divine revelation

You just pair off the corners, you know, you know when I put these this stuff up here, you know I take an exacto knife and you know,

I get rid of what doesn't fit right? well That's what Unitarian philosophy does it's not big enough

Gotta have a box God's got a you know, oh Did you do that?

Because if you did that I'm gonna no, no Okay, see, all right,

I'm wait I've got my phone I'm just See rich Rich let me point something out to you son.

I see the computer right there In fact, I can see you on the computer right there. I can turn that computer off Yes, I can

Uh -huh. I see you smiling. Okay, this is this is interesting now. I can see I can I can see rich down there

That's that's that's pretty sort of cool Okay First passable and then impassable that would be after the resurrection

Jesus Christ our Lord so Real quickly here scroll down just a little bit and I want you to see in Ephesians 9 1

Ephesians 9 1 Starting here You are as Stones of a temple prepared beforehand

For the building of Theo Petras God the father Being raised up on a pheromone.

I saw whoops a being raised up to the heights D. I taste

Mechanics Mechanics, that's where we get mechanic mechanical engine

The engine of Jesus Christ Hoss essence tarras, which is the cross

Scioneo chroma noi using as a as a rope toe pneumatic toe hagio

Using as a rope the Holy Spirit This is in just a matter of a couple sentences of what you have in Ephesians Ephesians 7

Ignatius is epistle now. This is 108.

This isn't 325 This isn't post 451 this is as primitive as you're gonna get and it's as high a

Christology as You're gonna get The man can talk about what

God is doing in this world as As Stones of a temple built being prepared by God the father using as the engine

Jesus Christ Which is the cross and as the rope lifting up those stones the Holy Spirit.

What a picture of the triune God Working in his church working amongst his people

Isn't incredible and this is in the early church

Now again, I know nothing about patristics. I Might be a professor of church history, but it doesn't matter

But it seems to me That when you read something like that and you allow it to speak it's speaking very clearly as To who

Christ is and in the most early Writings that we have outside the

New Testament important stuff important stuff So thankful that we have the opportunity to talk about these things and to share this information and I just I really hope that many of you in our audience you will

Take notes. You will take this information in and you will pray to God give me opportunity to speak to those

Who have been given false teachings and false doctrine?

Unitarians they're all over the place Give me the opportunity To be a witness to these individuals.

They need to be evangelized. They've been given to Jesus. We cannot save we cannot save and So it's one of the reasons we will continue to press on with with those things

I love spending that kind of time not only in the New Testament, but In writings of the early church fathers in the languages in which they wrote even though I think there's a lot of philosophers that probably couldn't do that in the original languages, but What do

I know? Right? So I think today is Thursday. Yes, so We have the conference in Littleton Saturday morning to two messages.

I'll be giving Sunday morning as well and Redemption Hills Church information's right there on the on the front page.

I hope those of you in the area will be able to join us and be challenged and edified by by what's what's there and then

Next week later next week heading up toward Ely, Minnesota and all that information is on the website as well and Two stops along the way

Getting there and then a hot foot in it back. So no time for stops on the way back. It's just long days

Hope not to run into any tornadoes or like that Would not want to be in one of these in a tornado

Not a not a good good spot to be But then back here briefly for a while And home only for a month again before heading for g3

Hopefully seeing a lot of you there for for g3 as well. So with that I Will thank rich for messing around with stuff in the background

We'll have a little conversation about that once we get done with all this, but thanks for watching the dividing line